What is love? God is love. These are the attributes of love

13 If I speak in the tongues of humans and of angels but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my body so that I may boast[a] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable; it keeps no record of wrongs; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. 9 For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part, 10 but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. 12 For now we see only a reflection, as in a mirror, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love remain, these three, and the greatest of these is love."
This is the way of Jesus in John 8 He looked on the woman (and the Pharisees) with love. There was no "if you do this then I forgive." Love is first and foremost Jesus way with us.

Waco1947 said:

---

Back in the day, I was a pastor at the largest church in North America. Eventually I walked away from it all because I could not teach beliefs and doctrines that I myself no longer accepted. No person taught evangelical theology with the devotion and passion that I did, but one day I realized this did not produce true and lasting change in others lives or my own.

Looking back, I can see I made at least these mistakes as a megachurch pastor:

Putting church over community
Putting orthodoxy over love.
Putting certainty over wonder.
Putting teaching over conversation.
Putting polished over real.
Putting explanations over empathy.
Putting answers over questions.
Putting membership over friendship.
Putting prayer over action.
Putting services over self-care.
Putting style over substance.
Putting appearance over authenticity.
Putting functionality over beauty.
Putting religion over spirituality.
Putting numbers over faces.
Putting holiness over humanity.
Putting accountability over acceptance.
Putting heaven over earth.
Putting meetings over relationships.
Putting reputation over risk.
Putting superiority over humility.
Putting charisma over compassion.
Putting the afterlife over the herelife.
Putting doctrine over reason.
Putting hierarchy over equality.

- Jim Palmer

---

Just FYI, the former pastor you're quoting is now an avowed Atheist.

Just want you to know who you are quoting, and who you align yourself with - which of course speaks volumes.

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Back in the day, I was a pastor at the largest church in North America. Eventually I walked away from it all because I could not teach beliefs and doctrines that I myself no longer accepted. No person taught evangelical theology with the devotion and passion that I did, but one day I realized this did not produce true and lasting change in others lives or my own.

Looking back, I can see I made at least these mistakes as a megachurch pastor:

Putting church over community
Putting orthodoxy over love.
Putting certainty over wonder.
Putting teaching over conversation.
Putting polished over real.
Putting explanations over empathy.
Putting answers over questions.
Putting membership over friendship.
Putting prayer over action.
Putting services over self-care.
Putting style over substance.
Putting appearance over authenticity.
Putting functionality over beauty.
Putting religion over spirituality.
Putting numbers over faces.
Putting holiness over humanity.
Putting accountability over acceptance.
Putting heaven over earth.
Putting meetings over relationships.
Putting reputation over risk.
Putting superiority over humility.
Putting charisma over compassion.
Putting the afterlife over the herelife.
Putting doctrine over reason.
Putting hierarchy over equality.

- Jim Palmer

---

Just FYI, the former pastor you're quoting is now an avowed Atheist.

Just want you to know who you are quoting, and who you align yourself with - which of course speaks volumes.

---

Maybe so but the truth of his statements still stand

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Back in the day, I was a pastor at the largest church in North America. Eventually I walked away from it all because I could not teach beliefs and doctrines that I myself no longer accepted. No person taught evangelical theology with the devotion and passion that I did, but one day I realized this did not produce true and lasting change in others lives or my own.

Looking back, I can see I made at least these mistakes as a megachurch pastor:

Putting church over community
Putting orthodoxy over love.
Putting certainty over wonder.
Putting teaching over conversation.
Putting polished over real.
Putting explanations over empathy.
Putting answers over questions.
Putting membership over friendship.
Putting prayer over action.
Putting services over self-care.
Putting style over substance.
Putting appearance over authenticity.
Putting functionality over beauty.
Putting religion over spirituality.
Putting numbers over faces.
Putting holiness over humanity.
Putting accountability over acceptance.
Putting heaven over earth.
Putting meetings over relationships.
Putting reputation over risk.
Putting superiority over humility.
Putting charisma over compassion.
Putting the afterlife over the herelife.
Putting doctrine over reason.
Putting hierarchy over equality.

- Jim Palmer

---

Just FYI, the former pastor you're quoting is now an avowed Atheist.

Just want you to know who you are quoting, and who you align yourself with - which of course speaks volumes.

---

Maybe so but the truth of his statements still stand

---

Does it? Does it comport with Christ's teachings? Many of them directly conflict. So, I think any Christian would have a hard time claiming the avowed Athiest, Palmer, is speaking truth.

It's interesting how often you agree with Atheists and agnostics on religious issues. One would think it would alert you to some needed soul searching. You might be in the wrong profession.

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Back in the day, I was a pastor at the largest church in North America. Eventually I walked away from it all because I could not teach beliefs and doctrines that I myself no longer accepted. No person taught evangelical theology with the devotion and passion that I did, but one day I realized this did not produce true and lasting change in others lives or my own.

Looking back, I can see I made at least these mistakes as a megachurch pastor:

Putting church over community
Putting orthodoxy over love.
Putting certainty over wonder.
Putting teaching over conversation.
Putting polished over real.
Putting explanations over empathy.
Putting answers over questions.
Putting membership over friendship.
Putting prayer over action.
Putting services over self-care.
Putting style over substance.
Putting appearance over authenticity.
Putting functionality over beauty.
Putting religion over spirituality.
Putting numbers over faces.
Putting holiness over humanity.
Putting accountability over acceptance.
Putting heaven over earth.
Putting meetings over relationships.
Putting reputation over risk.
Putting superiority over humility.
Putting charisma over compassion.
Putting the afterlife over the herelife.
Putting doctrine over reason.
Putting hierarchy over equality.

- Jim Palmer

---

Just FYI, the former pastor you're quoting is now an avowed Atheist.

Just want you to know who you are quoting, and who you align yourself with - which of course speaks volumes.

---

Maybe so but the truth of his statements still stand

---

That's Rhetoric, not Truth, Waco.

Depending on the context, some of those statements are demonstrably false.

And some are too insipid even for a Hallmark card.

"In a nationwide survey, 85% of U.S. adults said that premarital sex was wrong in 1967, which plummeted to 37% in 1979. The sexual revolution was mostly a battle between young Boomers and their Greatest generation parents, and the Boomers won." https://t.co/JNVgUFPzuN pic.twitter.com/silX2bLnhI

— Rob Henderson (@robkhenderson) April 17, 2023

There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And he answered them, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."
Luke 13:1-5

And Jesus answered them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."
Luke 5:31-32

Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.
Luke 17:3

and said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Luke 24:46-47

"What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.' Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7

"Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp and sweep the house and seek diligently until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin that I had lost.' Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents."
Luke 15:8-10

and a few more
Acts 2:38

And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Acts 3:19

Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out.

Acts 5:31

God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 8:22

Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you.

Acts 17:30

The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

Acts 20:21

Testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 26:20

But declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.

James 5:19-20

My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us. For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.
2 Corinthians 7:9-10

It's the Bible, not a Chinese menu. Take it all, even the egg roll.

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Back in the day, I was a pastor at the largest church in North America. Eventually I walked away from it all because I could not teach beliefs and doctrines that I myself no longer accepted. No person taught evangelical theology with the devotion and passion that I did, but one day I realized this did not produce true and lasting change in others lives or my own.

Looking back, I can see I made at least these mistakes as a megachurch pastor:

Putting church over community
Putting orthodoxy over love.
Putting certainty over wonder.
Putting teaching over conversation.
Putting polished over real.
Putting explanations over empathy.
Putting answers over questions.
Putting membership over friendship.
Putting prayer over action.
Putting services over self-care.
Putting style over substance.
Putting appearance over authenticity.
Putting functionality over beauty.
Putting religion over spirituality.
Putting numbers over faces.
Putting holiness over humanity.
Putting accountability over acceptance.
Putting heaven over earth.
Putting meetings over relationships.
Putting reputation over risk.
Putting superiority over humility.
Putting charisma over compassion.
Putting the afterlife over the herelife.
Putting doctrine over reason.
Putting hierarchy over equality.

- Jim Palmer

---

Just FYI, the former pastor you're quoting is now an avowed Atheist.

Just want you to know who you are quoting, and who you align yourself with - which of course speaks volumes.

---

Maybe so but the truth of his statements still stand

---

Does it? Does it comport with Christ's teachings? Many of them directly conflict. So, I think any Christian would have a hard time claiming the avowed Athiest, Palmer, is speaking truth.

It's interesting how often you agree with Atheists and agnostics on religious issues. One would think it would alert you to some needed soul searching. You might be in the wrong profession.

---

which ones conflict?

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Back in the day, I was a pastor at the largest church in North America. Eventually I walked away from it all because I could not teach beliefs and doctrines that I myself no longer accepted. No person taught evangelical theology with the devotion and passion that I did, but one day I realized this did not produce true and lasting change in others lives or my own.

Looking back, I can see I made at least these mistakes as a megachurch pastor:

Putting church over community
Putting orthodoxy over love.
Putting certainty over wonder.
Putting teaching over conversation.
Putting polished over real.
Putting explanations over empathy.
Putting answers over questions.
Putting membership over friendship.
Putting prayer over action.
Putting services over self-care.
Putting style over substance.
Putting appearance over authenticity.
Putting functionality over beauty.
Putting religion over spirituality.
Putting numbers over faces.
Putting holiness over humanity.
Putting accountability over acceptance.
Putting heaven over earth.
Putting meetings over relationships.
Putting reputation over risk.
Putting superiority over humility.
Putting charisma over compassion.
Putting the afterlife over the herelife.
Putting doctrine over reason.
Putting hierarchy over equality.

- Jim Palmer

---

Just FYI, the former pastor you're quoting is now an avowed Atheist.

Just want you to know who you are quoting, and who you align yourself with - which of course speaks volumes.

---

Maybe so but the truth of his statements still stand

---

That's Rhetoric, not Truth, Waco.

Depending on the context, some of those statements are demonstrably false.

And some are too insipid even for a Hallmark card.

---

Which ones?

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And he answered them, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."
Luke 13:1-5

And Jesus answered them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."
Luke 5:31-32

Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.
Luke 17:3

and said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Luke 24:46-47

"What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.' Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7

"Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp and sweep the house and seek diligently until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin that I had lost.' Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents."
Luke 15:8-10

and a few more
Acts 2:38

And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Acts 3:19

Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out.

Acts 5:31

God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 8:22

Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you.

Acts 17:30

The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

Acts 20:21

Testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 26:20

But declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.

James 5:19-20

My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us. For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.
2 Corinthians 7:9-10

It's the Bible, not a Chinese menu. Take it all, even the egg roll.

---

These are good reminders. I believe in repentance but not repentance prior to God's grace. Jesus asked faith in him.

I am the product of Cultural Christianity.

My parents were nominal Christians at best. Because of cultural pressure, they did not abort me but got married instead. 1/6

— Becca Daws (@BeccaDaws) April 20, 2023

SCOTUS has ruled that compulsory prayer/Bible reading in schools is unconstitutional.

About 35% of Republicans approve of that decision.

A majority of Democrats disagreed with the SCOTUS decision until about five years ago. https://t.co/I9CDbmktO1 pic.twitter.com/d5PAWywFID

— Ryan Burge 📊 (@ryanburge) April 21, 2023

Palmer is an empty suit … and a secular leftist to boot.

https://www.joeledmundanderson.com/bonus-post-out-of-left-field-jim-palmer-john-pavlovitz-and-my-irritation-with-such-bile-ah-yes-youre-intrigued-arent-you/

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Back in the day, I was a pastor at the largest church in North America. Eventually I walked away from it all because I could not teach beliefs and doctrines that I myself no longer accepted. No person taught evangelical theology with the devotion and passion that I did, but one day I realized this did not produce true and lasting change in others lives or my own.

Looking back, I can see I made at least these mistakes as a megachurch pastor:

Putting church over community
Putting orthodoxy over love.
Putting certainty over wonder.
Putting teaching over conversation.
Putting polished over real.
Putting explanations over empathy.
Putting answers over questions.
Putting membership over friendship.
Putting prayer over action.
Putting services over self-care.
Putting style over substance.
Putting appearance over authenticity.
Putting functionality over beauty.
Putting religion over spirituality.
Putting numbers over faces.
Putting holiness over humanity.
Putting accountability over acceptance.
Putting heaven over earth.
Putting meetings over relationships.
Putting reputation over risk.
Putting superiority over humility.
Putting charisma over compassion.
Putting the afterlife over the herelife.
Putting doctrine over reason.
Putting hierarchy over equality.

- Jim Palmer

---

Just FYI, the former pastor you're quoting is now an avowed Atheist.

Just want you to know who you are quoting, and who you align yourself with - which of course speaks volumes.

---

Maybe so but the truth of his statements still stand

---

That's Rhetoric, not Truth, Waco.

Depending on the context, some of those statements are demonstrably false.

And some are too insipid even for a Hallmark card.

---

Which ones?

---

At least fifteen are debatable.

See below:

"Putting certainty over wonder."
I need to be certain of some things, such as turning off stoves, locking doors, my daughter has her keys before she leaves her apartment to come home, etc.

"Putting teaching over conversation."
Conversation can be enjoyable and sometimes you can learn from one, but teaching is a vital function which should not be diluted by pretending the student is equal to the teacher.

"Putting explanations over empathy."
If you want to solve a problem, you have to understand the cause. Empathy is great for Disney plots but useless in a lot of real-world situations.

"Putting answers over questions."
Answers are knowledge. Questions sometimes only run in circles.

"Putting membership over friendship."
Membership means belonging to a group, which requires demonstration that you can do whet the group does. My lawyer's membership in his firm is much more important to me when I need counsel, than whether we are buddies. Same for my doctor, who is a member of his medical association, and other professional groups.

"Putting prayer over action."
Well, that depends on the action. A rash, knee-jerk action is a very bad idea, where prayer may well help a person choose a wiser course.

"Putting services over self-care."
That is the excuse of the narcissist.

"Putting functionality over beauty."
That one is pure BS. I care much more about whether my marriage is working, than whether my wife is fashionable. I care much more about whether my crew is working well together than whether any of them would get a photo shoot from Vogue. I care a great deal more about how well my truck is running, than whether it has been washed/waxed recently.

"Putting religion over spirituality."
I need God in my life, not some New Age huckster.

"Putting holiness over humanity."
Absolutely wrong. Holiness is precious and life-changing. Without holiness from God, we cannot be more than brute animals. Your 'humanity' would be nothing more than a self-absorbed mob.

"Putting accountability over acceptance."
Complete wrong again. Accountability is how a person accomplishes anything of value.

"Putting heaven over earth."
Written like the humanist you are. Had to have to remind you, sir, but earth will end just as our lives will end. If we do not focus on heaven, all we have and do will be futile. You are absolutely backwards wrong on this one.

"Putting the afterlife over the herelife."
If you do not focus on the life yet to come, it's easy to slip into the selfish greed of the non-believer.

"Putting doctrine over reason."
Scripture warns us not to trust the counsel of our own opinion. Reason leads us to do what we think is right, while sound doctrine leads us to the truth.

"Putting hierarchy over equality."
We are not equal and never will be, nor should we hope to such a fate. One finds joy and happiness by finding out what you do well, and work to become excellent. Social Justice is a highway to Hades, sir.


.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Back in the day, I was a pastor at the largest church in North America. Eventually I walked away from it all because I could not teach beliefs and doctrines that I myself no longer accepted. No person taught evangelical theology with the devotion and passion that I did, but one day I realized this did not produce true and lasting change in others lives or my own.

Looking back, I can see I made at least these mistakes as a megachurch pastor:

Putting church over community
Putting orthodoxy over love.
Putting certainty over wonder.
Putting teaching over conversation.
Putting polished over real.
Putting explanations over empathy.
Putting answers over questions.
Putting membership over friendship.
Putting prayer over action.
Putting services over self-care.
Putting style over substance.
Putting appearance over authenticity.
Putting functionality over beauty.
Putting religion over spirituality.
Putting numbers over faces.
Putting holiness over humanity.
Putting accountability over acceptance.
Putting heaven over earth.
Putting meetings over relationships.
Putting reputation over risk.
Putting superiority over humility.
Putting charisma over compassion.
Putting the afterlife over the herelife.
Putting doctrine over reason.
Putting hierarchy over equality.

- Jim Palmer

---

Just FYI, the former pastor you're quoting is now an avowed Atheist.

Just want you to know who you are quoting, and who you align yourself with - which of course speaks volumes.

---

Maybe so but the truth of his statements still stand

---

That's Rhetoric, not Truth, Waco.

Depending on the context, some of those statements are demonstrably false.

And some are too insipid even for a Hallmark card.

---

Which ones?

---

At least fifteen are debatable.

See below:

"Putting certainty over wonder."
I need to be certain of some things, such as turning off stoves, locking doors, my daughter has her keys before she leaves her apartment to come home, etc.

"Putting teaching over conversation."
Conversation can be enjoyable and sometimes you can learn from one, but teaching is a vital function which should not be diluted by pretending the student is equal to the teacher.

"Putting explanations over empathy."
If you want to solve a problem, you have to understand the cause. Empathy is great for Disney plots but useless in a lot of real-world situations.

"Putting answers over questions."
Answers are knowledge. Questions sometimes only run in circles.

"Putting membership over friendship."
Membership means belonging to a group, which requires demonstration that you can do whet the group does. My lawyer's membership in his firm is much more important to me when I need counsel, than whether we are buddies. Same for my doctor, who is a member of his medical association, and other professional groups.

"Putting prayer over action."
Well, that depends on the action. A rash, knee-jerk action is a very bad idea, where prayer may well help a person choose a wiser course.

"Putting services over self-care."
That is the excuse of the narcissist.

"Putting functionality over beauty."
That one is pure BS. I care much more about whether my marriage is working, than whether my wife is fashionable. I care much more about whether my crew is working well together than whether any of them would get a photo shoot from Vogue. I care a great deal more about how well my truck is running, than whether it has been washed/waxed recently.

"Putting religion over spirituality."
I need God in my life, not some New Age huckster.

"Putting holiness over humanity."
Absolutely wrong. Holiness is precious and life-changing. Without holiness from God, we cannot be more than brute animals. Your 'humanity' would be nothing more than a self-absorbed mob.

"Putting accountability over acceptance."
Complete wrong again. Accountability is how a person accomplishes anything of value.

"Putting heaven over earth."
Written like the humanist you are. Had to have to remind you, sir, but earth will end just as our lives will end. If we do not focus on heaven, all we have and do will be futile. You are absolutely backwards wrong on this one.

"Putting the afterlife over the herelife."
If you do not focus on the life yet to come, it's easy to slip into the selfish greed of the non-believer.

"Putting doctrine over reason."
Scripture warns us not to trust the counsel of our own opinion. Reason leads us to do what we think is right, while sound doctrine leads us to the truth.

"Putting hierarchy over equality."
We are not equal and never will be, nor should we hope to such a fate. One finds joy and happiness by finding out what you do well, and work to become excellent. Social Justice is a highway to Hades, sir.


.

---

There is a huge overlap with preaching and teaching

"And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!""

"How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

If it were me bringing the news, they'd say 'Welp, he's an ugly one but I like the news he brings'

Redbrickbear said:

---

SCOTUS has ruled that compulsory prayer/Bible reading in schools is unconstitutional.

About 35% of Republicans approve of that decision.

A majority of Democrats disagreed with the SCOTUS decision until about five years ago. https://t.co/I9CDbmktO1 pic.twitter.com/d5PAWywFID

— Ryan Burge 📊 (@ryanburge) April 21, 2023

---

It should be the love commandment. It is the greatest commandment

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Back in the day, I was a pastor at the largest church in North America. Eventually I walked away from it all because I could not teach beliefs and doctrines that I myself no longer accepted. No person taught evangelical theology with the devotion and passion that I did, but one day I realized this did not produce true and lasting change in others lives or my own.

Looking back, I can see I made at least these mistakes as a megachurch pastor:

Putting church over community
Putting orthodoxy over love.
Putting certainty over wonder.
Putting teaching over conversation.
Putting polished over real.
Putting explanations over empathy.
Putting answers over questions.
Putting membership over friendship.
Putting prayer over action.
Putting services over self-care.
Putting style over substance.
Putting appearance over authenticity.
Putting functionality over beauty.
Putting religion over spirituality.
Putting numbers over faces.
Putting holiness over humanity.
Putting accountability over acceptance.
Putting heaven over earth.
Putting meetings over relationships.
Putting reputation over risk.
Putting superiority over humility.
Putting charisma over compassion.
Putting the afterlife over the herelife.
Putting doctrine over reason.
Putting hierarchy over equality.

- Jim Palmer

---

Just FYI, the former pastor you're quoting is now an avowed Atheist.

Just want you to know who you are quoting, and who you align yourself with - which of course speaks volumes.

---

Maybe so but the truth of his statements still stand

---

That's Rhetoric, not Truth, Waco.

Depending on the context, some of those statements are demonstrably false.

And some are too insipid even for a Hallmark card.

---

Which ones?

---

At least fifteen are debatable.

See below:

"Putting certainty over wonder."
I need to be certain of some things, such as turning off stoves, locking doors, my daughter has her keys before she leaves her apartment to come home, etc.

"Putting teaching over conversation."
Conversation can be enjoyable and sometimes you can learn from one, but teaching is a vital function which should not be diluted by pretending the student is equal to the teacher.

"Putting explanations over empathy."
If you want to solve a problem, you have to understand the cause. Empathy is great for Disney plots but useless in a lot of real-world situations.

"Putting answers over questions."
Answers are knowledge. Questions sometimes only run in circles.

"Putting membership over friendship."
Membership means belonging to a group, which requires demonstration that you can do whet the group does. My lawyer's membership in his firm is much more important to me when I need counsel, than whether we are buddies. Same for my doctor, who is a member of his medical association, and other professional groups.

"Putting prayer over action."
Well, that depends on the action. A rash, knee-jerk action is a very bad idea, where prayer may well help a person choose a wiser course.

"Putting services over self-care."
That is the excuse of the narcissist.

"Putting functionality over beauty."
That one is pure BS. I care much more about whether my marriage is working, than whether my wife is fashionable. I care much more about whether my crew is working well together than whether any of them would get a photo shoot from Vogue. I care a great deal more about how well my truck is running, than whether it has been washed/waxed recently.

"Putting religion over spirituality."
I need God in my life, not some New Age huckster.

"Putting holiness over humanity."
Absolutely wrong. Holiness is precious and life-changing. Without holiness from God, we cannot be more than brute animals. Your 'humanity' would be nothing more than a self-absorbed mob.

"Putting accountability over acceptance."
Complete wrong again. Accountability is how a person accomplishes anything of value.

"Putting heaven over earth."
Written like the humanist you are. Had to have to remind you, sir, but earth will end just as our lives will end. If we do not focus on heaven, all we have and do will be futile. You are absolutely backwards wrong on this one.

"Putting the afterlife over the herelife."
If you do not focus on the life yet to come, it's easy to slip into the selfish greed of the non-believer.

"Putting doctrine over reason."
Scripture warns us not to trust the counsel of our own opinion. Reason leads us to do what we think is right, while sound doctrine leads us to the truth.

"Putting hierarchy over equality."
We are not equal and never will be, nor should we hope to such a fate. One finds joy and happiness by finding out what you do well, and work to become excellent. Social Justice is a highway to Hades, sir.


.

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Thank you for your considered responses.

Waco1947 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And he answered them, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."
Luke 13:1-5

And Jesus answered them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."
Luke 5:31-32

Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.
Luke 17:3

and said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Luke 24:46-47

"What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.' Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7

"Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp and sweep the house and seek diligently until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin that I had lost.' Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents."
Luke 15:8-10

and a few more
Acts 2:38

And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Acts 3:19

Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out.

Acts 5:31

God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 8:22

Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you.

Acts 17:30

The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

Acts 20:21

Testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 26:20

But declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.

James 5:19-20

My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us. For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.
2 Corinthians 7:9-10

It's the Bible, not a Chinese menu. Take it all, even the egg roll.

---

These are good reminders. I believe in repentance but not repentance prior to God's grace. Jesus asked faith in him.

---

What do you suppose is meant by separating the sheep from the goats?

Waco1947 said:

---

What is love? God is love. These are the attributes of love

13 If I speak in the tongues of humans and of angels but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my body so that I may boast[a] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable; it keeps no record of wrongs; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. 9 For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part, 10 but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. 12 For now we see only a reflection, as in a mirror, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love remain, these three, and the greatest of these is love."
This is the way of Jesus in John 8 He looked on the woman (and the Pharisees) with love. There was no "if you do this then I forgive." Love is first and foremost Jesus way with us.

---

It simply amaze me that anyone believes any of the ancient religions which are sjmply superstious beliefs. the knowledge we have today of how mankind got here and the amazing discoveries of just how small we are in relation to the known universe is overwhelming evidence that mna k ow zero about a God if indeed one exists. There is no such thing in our history as a human that was perfectly made and fell from God's grace so we would need to be saved. When you dive into judiaseum and learn that life after death and resurrection pf our dead came from the Persians at the time and that Christianity basic principles came from the various beliefs of its captors ot so plainly evident religion is a manmde Iinvention. Then you take a look at how Christians treated others in holy wars ,destroyng entire cultures with death and destruction it becomes even more evident it is man-made. I went 30 years as a church going Christian until it became evident I was being brainwashed to believe in something that does not exist.
It makes me sad to see so many people who brainwash their children etc to belive something that later in life of they open their minds to the truth will be shocked to find out there os no evidence for an after life a personal God and quite to the contrary, mountains of evidence that all religions are man made devices.
Eventually religion will die out completely as our knowledge presents a picture pf truth and understanding of who we are etc. Much like religion after years pf denying facts, had to admit the Erath was not the center of solar system and or the earth was not flat.

Love and live each day the best you can, cause most likely it is all you have.

I could list over a 100 examples that prove religion os man made and is culture driven, however I will leave up to you to go discover for your selves or you can believe what you want. Humans are so very superstitious by nature and co tinie to be so.

Hospitals and most major charities came from religious orders.

Free education was first created by religious orders.

Just two things off the top of my mind we owe to Religion.

As for the rest of that post, dude can't even spell Judaism correctly, let alone apply context to History.

People saying they hate the idea of Christianity because some Christians did some bad things is the same as saying they hate Beethoven because they heard some of his music performed poorly.

It's odd how some people don't grasp logic while claiming to use it.

joseywales said:

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Waco1947 said:

---

What is love? God is love. These are the attributes of love

13 If I speak in the tongues of humans and of angels but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my body so that I may boast[a] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable; it keeps no record of wrongs; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. 9 For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part, 10 but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. 12 For now we see only a reflection, as in a mirror, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love remain, these three, and the greatest of these is love."
This is the way of Jesus in John 8 He looked on the woman (and the Pharisees) with love. There was no "if you do this then I forgive." Love is first and foremost Jesus way with us.

---

It simply amaze me that anyone believes any of the ancient religions which are sjmply superstious beliefs. the knowledge we have today of how mankind got here and the amazing discoveries of just how small we are in relation to the known universe is overwhelming evidence that mna k ow zero about a God if indeed one exists. There is no such thing in our history as a human that was perfectly made and fell from God's grace so we would need to be saved. When you dive into judiaseum and learn that life after death and resurrection pf our dead came from the Persians at the time and that Christianity basic principles came from the various beliefs of its captors ot so plainly evident religion is a manmde Iinvention. Then you take a look at how Christians treated others in holy wars ,destroyng entire cultures with death and destruction it becomes even more evident it is man-made. I went 30 years as a church going Christian until it became evident I was being brainwashed to believe in something that does not exist.
It makes me sad to see so many people who brainwash their children etc to belive something that later in life of they open their minds to the truth will be shocked to find out there os no evidence for an after life a personal God and quite to the contrary, mountains of evidence that all religions are man made devices.
Eventually religion will die out completely as our knowledge presents a picture pf truth and understanding of who we are etc. Much like religion after years pf denying facts, had to admit the Erath was not the center of solar system and or the earth was not flat.

Love and live each day the best you can, cause most likely it is all you have.

I could list over a 100 examples that prove religion os man made and is culture driven, however I will leave up to you to go discover for your selves or you can believe what you want. Humans are so very superstitious by nature and co tinie to be so.

---

Love ''em or hate 'em……..Christians do the majority of good works in this country .

Waco1947 said:

---

What is love? God is love. These are the attributes of love

13 If I speak in the tongues of humans and of angels but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my body so that I may boast[a] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable; it keeps no record of wrongs; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. 9 For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part, 10 but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. 12 For now we see only a reflection, as in a mirror, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love remain, these three, and the greatest of these is love."
This is the way of Jesus in John 8 He looked on the woman (and the Pharisees) with love. There was no "if you do this then I forgive." Love is first and foremost Jesus way with us.

---

Jesus loved the woman in John 8 enough to tell her to renounce her sinful lifestyle. Love is showing the way to repentance, not condoning sin.

And when you say "there is no 'if you do this then I will forgive," then what do you make of John 3:16, which expressly conditions everlasting life on belief?

joseywales said:

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Waco1947 said:

---

What is love? God is love. These are the attributes of love

13 If I speak in the tongues of humans and of angels but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my body so that I may boast[a] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable; it keeps no record of wrongs; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. 9 For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part, 10 but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. 12 For now we see only a reflection, as in a mirror, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love remain, these three, and the greatest of these is love."
This is the way of Jesus in John 8 He looked on the woman (and the Pharisees) with love. There was no "if you do this then I forgive." Love is first and foremost Jesus way with us.

---

It simply amaze me that anyone believes any of the ancient religions which are sjmply superstious beliefs. the knowledge we have today of how mankind got here and the amazing discoveries of just how small we are in relation to the known universe is overwhelming evidence that mna k ow zero about a God if indeed one exists. There is no such thing in our history as a human that was perfectly made and fell from God's grace so we would need to be saved. When you dive into judiaseum and learn that life after death and resurrection pf our dead came from the Persians at the time and that Christianity basic principles came from the various beliefs of its captors ot so plainly evident religion is a manmde Iinvention. Then you take a look at how Christians treated others in holy wars ,destroyng entire cultures with death and destruction it becomes even more evident it is man-made. I went 30 years as a church going Christian until it became evident I was being brainwashed to believe in something that does not exist.
It makes me sad to see so many people who brainwash their children etc to belive something that later in life of they open their minds to the truth will be shocked to find out there os no evidence for an after life a personal God and quite to the contrary, mountains of evidence that all religions are man made devices.
Eventually religion will die out completely as our knowledge presents a picture pf truth and understanding of who we are etc. Much like religion after years pf denying facts, had to admit the Erath was not the center of solar system and or the earth was not flat.

Love and live each day the best you can, cause most likely it is all you have.

I could list over a 100 examples that prove religion os man made and is culture driven, however I will leave up to you to go discover for your selves or you can believe what you want. Humans are so very superstitious by nature and co tinie to be so.

---

Josey, there is plenty of evidence that supports Jesus being a real, historical figure. What do you think about Jesus?

KaiBear said:

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joseywales said:

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Waco1947 said:

---

What is love? God is love. These are the attributes of love

13 If I speak in the tongues of humans and of angels but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my body so that I may boast[a] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable; it keeps no record of wrongs; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. 9 For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part, 10 but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. 12 For now we see only a reflection, as in a mirror, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love remain, these three, and the greatest of these is love."
This is the way of Jesus in John 8 He looked on the woman (and the Pharisees) with love. There was no "if you do this then I forgive." Love is first and foremost Jesus way with us.

---

It simply amaze me that anyone believes any of the ancient religions which are sjmply superstious beliefs. the knowledge we have today of how mankind got here and the amazing discoveries of just how small we are in relation to the known universe is overwhelming evidence that mna k ow zero about a God if indeed one exists. There is no such thing in our history as a human that was perfectly made and fell from God's grace so we would need to be saved. When you dive into judiaseum and learn that life after death and resurrection pf our dead came from the Persians at the time and that Christianity basic principles came from the various beliefs of its captors ot so plainly evident religion is a manmde Iinvention. Then you take a look at how Christians treated others in holy wars ,destroyng entire cultures with death and destruction it becomes even more evident it is man-made. I went 30 years as a church going Christian until it became evident I was being brainwashed to believe in something that does not exist.
It makes me sad to see so many people who brainwash their children etc to belive something that later in life of they open their minds to the truth will be shocked to find out there os no evidence for an after life a personal God and quite to the contrary, mountains of evidence that all religions are man made devices.
Eventually religion will die out completely as our knowledge presents a picture pf truth and understanding of who we are etc. Much like religion after years pf denying facts, had to admit the Erath was not the center of solar system and or the earth was not flat.

Love and live each day the best you can, cause most likely it is all you have.

I could list over a 100 examples that prove religion os man made and is culture driven, however I will leave up to you to go discover for your selves or you can believe what you want. Humans are so very superstitious by nature and co tinie to be so.

---

Love ''em or hate 'em……..Christians do the majority of good works in this country .

---

How can you possibly know that fact?

Waco1947 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

joseywales said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

What is love? God is love. These are the attributes of love

13 If I speak in the tongues of humans and of angels but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my body so that I may boast[a] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable; it keeps no record of wrongs; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. 9 For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part, 10 but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. 12 For now we see only a reflection, as in a mirror, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love remain, these three, and the greatest of these is love."
This is the way of Jesus in John 8 He looked on the woman (and the Pharisees) with love. There was no "if you do this then I forgive." Love is first and foremost Jesus way with us.

---

It simply amaze me that anyone believes any of the ancient religions which are sjmply superstious beliefs. the knowledge we have today of how mankind got here and the amazing discoveries of just how small we are in relation to the known universe is overwhelming evidence that mna k ow zero about a God if indeed one exists. There is no such thing in our history as a human that was perfectly made and fell from God's grace so we would need to be saved. When you dive into judiaseum and learn that life after death and resurrection pf our dead came from the Persians at the time and that Christianity basic principles came from the various beliefs of its captors ot so plainly evident religion is a manmde Iinvention. Then you take a look at how Christians treated others in holy wars ,destroyng entire cultures with death and destruction it becomes even more evident it is man-made. I went 30 years as a church going Christian until it became evident I was being brainwashed to believe in something that does not exist.
It makes me sad to see so many people who brainwash their children etc to belive something that later in life of they open their minds to the truth will be shocked to find out there os no evidence for an after life a personal God and quite to the contrary, mountains of evidence that all religions are man made devices.
Eventually religion will die out completely as our knowledge presents a picture pf truth and understanding of who we are etc. Much like religion after years pf denying facts, had to admit the Erath was not the center of solar system and or the earth was not flat.

Love and live each day the best you can, cause most likely it is all you have.

I could list over a 100 examples that prove religion os man made and is culture driven, however I will leave up to you to go discover for your selves or you can believe what you want. Humans are so very superstitious by nature and co tinie to be so.

---

Love ''em or hate 'em……..Christians do the majority of good works in this country .

---

How can you possibly know that fact?

---

1. They are still the overwhelming majority of the populace. Saying they are doing the most good works is a objectively true as saying that Christians in the USA are paying the overwhelming majority of taxes. Its simply factual correct.

2. Look up the rates of community service and personal giving....way higher for regular church going Christians than say agnostics.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Waco1947 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And he answered them, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."
Luke 13:1-5

And Jesus answered them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."
Luke 5:31-32

Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.
Luke 17:3

and said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Luke 24:46-47

"What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.' Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7

"Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp and sweep the house and seek diligently until she finds it? And when she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin that I had lost.' Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents."
Luke 15:8-10

and a few more
Acts 2:38

And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Acts 3:19

Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out.

Acts 5:31

God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 8:22

Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you.

Acts 17:30

The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

Acts 20:21

Testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 26:20

But declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.

James 5:19-20

My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us. For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.
2 Corinthians 7:9-10

It's the Bible, not a Chinese menu. Take it all, even the egg roll.

---

These are good reminders. I believe in repentance but not repentance prior to God's grace. Jesus asked faith in him.

---

What do you suppose is meant by separating the sheep from the goats?

---

The picture described in Matthew 25 is about the last judgment and the criteria for admission into the kingdom. To our surprise, both then and now, is that the criteria of judgment is not confession of faith in Christ. Nothing is said of Grace justification or the forgiveness of sins. what counts is whether or not one has acted with loving care for needy people. Again, let me reference the Love Commandment "to love your neighbor as yourself."

The FINAL criteria for judgment is the loving care of our fellow humans.

If one chooses to be a goat then one lives a lonely, despairing existence outside the kingdom of God. Do you want to run that risk by demanding repentance or do you want to listen to Jesus?

Redbrickbear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

joseywales said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

What is love? God is love. These are the attributes of love

13 If I speak in the tongues of humans and of angels but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my body so that I may boast[a] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable; it keeps no record of wrongs; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. 9 For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part, 10 but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. 12 For now we see only a reflection, as in a mirror, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love remain, these three, and the greatest of these is love."
This is the way of Jesus in John 8 He looked on the woman (and the Pharisees) with love. There was no "if you do this then I forgive." Love is first and foremost Jesus way with us.

---

It simply amaze me that anyone believes any of the ancient religions which are sjmply superstious beliefs. the knowledge we have today of how mankind got here and the amazing discoveries of just how small we are in relation to the known universe is overwhelming evidence that mna k ow zero about a God if indeed one exists. There is no such thing in our history as a human that was perfectly made and fell from God's grace so we would need to be saved. When you dive into judiaseum and learn that life after death and resurrection pf our dead came from the Persians at the time and that Christianity basic principles came from the various beliefs of its captors ot so plainly evident religion is a manmade Invention. Then you take a look at how Christians treated others in holy wars ,destroying entire cultures with death and destruction it becomes even more evident it is man-made. I went 30 years as a church going Christian until it became evident I was being brainwashed to believe in something that does not exist.
It makes me sad to see so many people who brainwash their children etc to belive something that later in life of they open their minds to the truth will be shocked to find out there os no evidence for an after life a personal God and quite to the contrary, mountains of evidence that all religions are man made devices.
Eventually religion will die out completely as our knowledge presents a picture pf truth and understanding of who we are etc. Much like religion after years pf denying facts, had to admit the Erath was not the center of solar system and or the earth was not flat.

Love and live each day the best you can, cause most likely it is all you have.

I could list over a 100 examples that prove religion os man made and is culture driven, however I will leave up to you to go discover for your selves or you can believe what you want. Humans are so very superstitious by nature and co tinie to be so.

---

Love ''em or hate 'em……..Christians do the majority of good works in this country .

---

How can you possibly know that fact?

---

1. They are still the overwhelming majority of the populace. Saying they are doing the most good works is a objectively true as saying that Christians in the USA are paying the overwhelming majority of taxes. Its simply factual correct.

2. Look up the rates of community service and personal giving....way higher for regular church going Christians than say agnostics.

---

Then it is a meaningless statistic. In your estimation there are simply more Christians (at least nominally) that hardly speaks of whether Christians are better than others because of their faith..

joseywales said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

What is love? God is love. These are the attributes of love

13 If I speak in the tongues of humans and of angels but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my body so that I may boast[a] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable; it keeps no record of wrongs; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. 9 For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part, 10 but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. 12 For now we see only a reflection, as in a mirror, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love remain, these three, and the greatest of these is love."
This is the way of Jesus in John 8 He looked on the woman (and the Pharisees) with love. There was no "if you do this then I forgive." Love is first and foremost Jesus way with us.

---

It simply amaze me that anyone believes any of the ancient religions which are simply superstitious beliefs. Yes, and superstitious beliefs cannot die soon enough. Science has long since quashed those ideas.

The knowledge we have today of how mankind got here and the amazing discoveries of just how small we are in relation to the known universe is overwhelming evidence that man knows zero about a God if indeed one exists. As in all things God, our basic definition of God makes all the difference in the world. My definition of God is love. The overwhelming witness of scripture is that that God is love and it stated specifically in I John. Jesus bases our faith on the love commandment - Love God and neighbor and self.
A superstition that needs to die is that God is all powerful. A simply notion of physics ought to squash that idea. There is NO scientific evidence that there is power great than physics.

There is no such thing in our history as a human that was perfectly made and fell from God's grace so we would need to be saved. When you dive into Judaism and learn that life after death and resurrection pf our dead came from the Persians at the time and that Christianity basic principles came from the various beliefs of its captors; so plainly evident religion is a manmade Invention.Historically true but the idea of love dying and rising again is the true source of our faith.

Then you take a look at how Christians treated others in holy wars ,destroying entire cultures with death and destruction it becomes even more evident it is man-made.

I went 30 years as a church going Christian until it became evident I was being brainwashed to believe in something that does not exist.Hence supersticion must die.
It makes me sad to see so many people who brainwash their children etc to believe something that later in life of they open their minds to the truth will be shocked to find out there os no evidence for an after life a personal God and quite to the contrary, mountains of evidence that all religions are man made devices. It makes me mad, too.
Eventually religion will die out completely as our knowledge presents a picture pf truth and understanding of who we are etc. Much like religion after years pf denying facts, had to admit the Earth was not the center of solar system and or the earth was not flat. But love, justice, hope, truth, humility, compassion will not die out.These are real and have been real since humankind woke and became a living being.

Love and live each day the best you can, cause most likely it is all you have.We all try.

I could list over a 100 examples that prove religion is man made and is culture driven, however I will leave up to you to go discover for your selves or you can believe what you want. Humans are so very superstitious by nature and co tinie to be so.Holy men in service of political and military power have served us well so I do not look to them but rather Jesus.

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

joseywales said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

What is love? God is love. These are the attributes of love

13 If I speak in the tongues of humans and of angels but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my body so that I may boast[a] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable; it keeps no record of wrongs; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. 9 For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part, 10 but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. 12 For now we see only a reflection, as in a mirror, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love remain, these three, and the greatest of these is love."
This is the way of Jesus in John 8 He looked on the woman (and the Pharisees) with love. There was no "if you do this then I forgive." Love is first and foremost Jesus way with us.

---

It simply amaze me that anyone believes any of the ancient religions which are sjmply superstious beliefs. the knowledge we have today of how mankind got here and the amazing discoveries of just how small we are in relation to the known universe is overwhelming evidence that mna k ow zero about a God if indeed one exists. There is no such thing in our history as a human that was perfectly made and fell from God's grace so we would need to be saved. When you dive into judiaseum and learn that life after death and resurrection pf our dead came from the Persians at the time and that Christianity basic principles came from the various beliefs of its captors ot so plainly evident religion is a manmade Invention. Then you take a look at how Christians treated others in holy wars ,destroying entire cultures with death and destruction it becomes even more evident it is man-made. I went 30 years as a church going Christian until it became evident I was being brainwashed to believe in something that does not exist.
It makes me sad to see so many people who brainwash their children etc to belive something that later in life of they open their minds to the truth will be shocked to find out there os no evidence for an after life a personal God and quite to the contrary, mountains of evidence that all religions are man made devices.
Eventually religion will die out completely as our knowledge presents a picture pf truth and understanding of who we are etc. Much like religion after years pf denying facts, had to admit the Erath was not the center of solar system and or the earth was not flat.

Love and live each day the best you can, cause most likely it is all you have.

I could list over a 100 examples that prove religion os man made and is culture driven, however I will leave up to you to go discover for your selves or you can believe what you want. Humans are so very superstitious by nature and co tinie to be so.

---

Love ''em or hate 'em……..Christians do the majority of good works in this country .

---

How can you possibly know that fact?

---

1. They are still the overwhelming majority of the populace. Saying they are doing the most good works is a objectively true as saying that Christians in the USA are paying the overwhelming majority of taxes. Its simply factual correct.

2. Look up the rates of community service and personal giving....way higher for regular church going Christians than say agnostics.

---

Then it is a meaningless statistic. In your estimation there are simply more Christians (at least nominally) that hardly speaks of whether Christians are better than others because of their faith..

---

That is why I gave you example number 2

That studies have consistently shown that active regular church attending Christians are MORE generous with their time, money, and service than any other non-religious or religious group in the USA.

https://philanthropydaily.com/new-study-religious-faith-and-reading-the-bible-increases-generosity/

[A new study from the American Bible Society shows that "Practicing Christians" and "Bible Users" remain more generous than non-religious Americansand that this trend held steady through the pandemic.]

If you count the LDS as Christians (certainly they are not Muslims, Jews, or Hindus) the numbers rise again.

https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/penn-research-shows-mormons-are-generous-and-active-helping-others


p.s.

I again wonder why you are a Christian in the first place. You seem to have a never ending problem with Christians in America (especially White ones) and always doubt they are doing anything good at all compared to other religious and non-religious groups.

Redbrickbear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

joseywales said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

What is love? God is love. These are the attributes of love

13 If I speak in the tongues of humans and of angels but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my body so that I may boast[a] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable; it keeps no record of wrongs; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. 9 For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part, 10 but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. 12 For now we see only a reflection, as in a mirror, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love remain, these three, and the greatest of these is love."
This is the way of Jesus in John 8 He looked on the woman (and the Pharisees) with love. There was no "if you do this then I forgive." Love is first and foremost Jesus way with us.

---

It simply amaze me that anyone believes any of the ancient religions which are sjmply superstious beliefs. the knowledge we have today of how mankind got here and the amazing discoveries of just how small we are in relation to the known universe is overwhelming evidence that mna k ow zero about a God if indeed one exists. There is no such thing in our history as a human that was perfectly made and fell from God's grace so we would need to be saved. When you dive into judiaseum and learn that life after death and resurrection pf our dead came from the Persians at the time and that Christianity basic principles came from the various beliefs of its captors ot so plainly evident religion is a manmade Invention. Then you take a look at how Christians treated others in holy wars ,destroying entire cultures with death and destruction it becomes even more evident it is man-made. I went 30 years as a church going Christian until it became evident I was being brainwashed to believe in something that does not exist.
It makes me sad to see so many people who brainwash their children etc to belive something that later in life of they open their minds to the truth will be shocked to find out there os no evidence for an after life a personal God and quite to the contrary, mountains of evidence that all religions are man made devices.
Eventually religion will die out completely as our knowledge presents a picture pf truth and understanding of who we are etc. Much like religion after years pf denying facts, had to admit the Erath was not the center of solar system and or the earth was not flat.

Love and live each day the best you can, cause most likely it is all you have.

I could list over a 100 examples that prove religion os man made and is culture driven, however I will leave up to you to go discover for your selves or you can believe what you want. Humans are so very superstitious by nature and co tinie to be so.

---

Love ''em or hate 'em……..Christians do the majority of good works in this country .

---

How can you possibly know that fact?

---

1. They are still the overwhelming majority of the populace. Saying they are doing the most good works is a objectively true as saying that Christians in the USA are paying the overwhelming majority of taxes. Its simply factual correct.

2. Look up the rates of community service and personal giving....way higher for regular church going Christians than say agnostics.

---

Then it is a meaningless statistic. In your estimation there are simply more Christians (at least nominally) that hardly speaks of whether Christians are better than others because of their faith..

---

That is why I gave you example number 2

That studies have consistently shown that active regular church attending Christians are MORE generous with their time, money, and service than any other non-religious or religious group in the USA.

https://philanthropydaily.com/new-study-religious-faith-and-reading-the-bible-increases-generosity/

[A new study from the American Bible Society shows that "Practicing Christians" and "Bible Users" remain more generous than non-religious Americansand that this trend held steady through the pandemic.]

If you count the LDS as Christians (certainly they are not Muslims, Jews, or Hindus) the numbers rise again.

https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/penn-research-shows-mormons-are-generous-and-active-helping-others


p.s.

I again wonder why you are a Christian in the first place. You seem to have a never ending problem with Christians in America (especially White ones) and always doubt they are doing anything good at all compared to other religious and non-religious groups.

---

Christians are doing good in America, the white ones, too.

Waco1947 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

joseywales said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

What is love? God is love. These are the attributes of love

13 If I speak in the tongues of humans and of angels but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my body so that I may boast[a] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable; it keeps no record of wrongs; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. 9 For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part, 10 but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. 12 For now we see only a reflection, as in a mirror, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love remain, these three, and the greatest of these is love."
This is the way of Jesus in John 8 He looked on the woman (and the Pharisees) with love. There was no "if you do this then I forgive." Love is first and foremost Jesus way with us.

---

It simply amaze me that anyone believes any of the ancient religions which are sjmply superstious beliefs. the knowledge we have today of how mankind got here and the amazing discoveries of just how small we are in relation to the known universe is overwhelming evidence that mna k ow zero about a God if indeed one exists. There is no such thing in our history as a human that was perfectly made and fell from God's grace so we would need to be saved. When you dive into judiaseum and learn that life after death and resurrection pf our dead came from the Persians at the time and that Christianity basic principles came from the various beliefs of its captors ot so plainly evident religion is a manmade Invention. Then you take a look at how Christians treated others in holy wars ,destroying entire cultures with death and destruction it becomes even more evident it is man-made. I went 30 years as a church going Christian until it became evident I was being brainwashed to believe in something that does not exist.
It makes me sad to see so many people who brainwash their children etc to belive something that later in life of they open their minds to the truth will be shocked to find out there os no evidence for an after life a personal God and quite to the contrary, mountains of evidence that all religions are man made devices.
Eventually religion will die out completely as our knowledge presents a picture pf truth and understanding of who we are etc. Much like religion after years pf denying facts, had to admit the Erath was not the center of solar system and or the earth was not flat.

Love and live each day the best you can, cause most likely it is all you have.

I could list over a 100 examples that prove religion os man made and is culture driven, however I will leave up to you to go discover for your selves or you can believe what you want. Humans are so very superstitious by nature and co tinie to be so.

---

Love ''em or hate 'em……..Christians do the majority of good works in this country .

---

How can you possibly know that fact?

---

1. They are still the overwhelming majority of the populace. Saying they are doing the most good works is a objectively true as saying that Christians in the USA are paying the overwhelming majority of taxes. Its simply factual correct.

2. Look up the rates of community service and personal giving....way higher for regular church going Christians than say agnostics.

---

Then it is a meaningless statistic. In your estimation there are simply more Christians (at least nominally) that hardly speaks of whether Christians are better than others because of their faith..

---

That is why I gave you example number 2

That studies have consistently shown that active regular church attending Christians are MORE generous with their time, money, and service than any other non-religious or religious group in the USA.

https://philanthropydaily.com/new-study-religious-faith-and-reading-the-bible-increases-generosity/

[A new study from the American Bible Society shows that "Practicing Christians" and "Bible Users" remain more generous than non-religious Americansand that this trend held steady through the pandemic.]

If you count the LDS as Christians (certainly they are not Muslims, Jews, or Hindus) the numbers rise again.

https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/penn-research-shows-mormons-are-generous-and-active-helping-others


p.s.

I again wonder why you are a Christian in the first place. You seem to have a never ending problem with Christians in America (especially White ones) and always doubt they are doing anything good at all compared to other religious and non-religious groups.

---

Christians are doing good in America, the white ones, too.

---

But you constantly doubt this....constantly criticize them over other groups in America....and never miss an opportunity to attack your fellow believers in Christ....why?

Waco1947 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

joseywales said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

What is love? God is love. These are the attributes of love

13 If I speak in the tongues of humans and of angels but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my body so that I may boast[a] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable; it keeps no record of wrongs; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. 9 For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part, 10 but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. 12 For now we see only a reflection, as in a mirror, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love remain, these three, and the greatest of these is love."
This is the way of Jesus in John 8 He looked on the woman (and the Pharisees) with love. There was no "if you do this then I forgive." Love is first and foremost Jesus way with us.

---

It simply amaze me that anyone believes any of the ancient religions which are sjmply superstious beliefs. the knowledge we have today of how mankind got here and the amazing discoveries of just how small we are in relation to the known universe is overwhelming evidence that mna k ow zero about a God if indeed one exists. There is no such thing in our history as a human that was perfectly made and fell from God's grace so we would need to be saved. When you dive into judiaseum and learn that life after death and resurrection pf our dead came from the Persians at the time and that Christianity basic principles came from the various beliefs of its captors ot so plainly evident religion is a manmde Iinvention. Then you take a look at how Christians treated others in holy wars ,destroyng entire cultures with death and destruction it becomes even more evident it is man-made. I went 30 years as a church going Christian until it became evident I was being brainwashed to believe in something that does not exist.
It makes me sad to see so many people who brainwash their children etc to belive something that later in life of they open their minds to the truth will be shocked to find out there os no evidence for an after life a personal God and quite to the contrary, mountains of evidence that all religions are man made devices.
Eventually religion will die out completely as our knowledge presents a picture pf truth and understanding of who we are etc. Much like religion after years pf denying facts, had to admit the Erath was not the center of solar system and or the earth was not flat.

Love and live each day the best you can, cause most likely it is all you have.

I could list over a 100 examples that prove religion os man made and is culture driven, however I will leave up to you to go discover for your selves or you can believe what you want. Humans are so very superstitious by nature and co tinie to be so.

---

Love ''em or hate 'em……..Christians do the majority of good works in this country .

---

How can you possibly know that fact?

---

Because there have been studies published to that affect .

What other demographic does more ?

Redbrickbear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

KaiBear said:

---

joseywales said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

What is love? God is love. These are the attributes of love

13 If I speak in the tongues of humans and of angels but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my body so that I may boast[a] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable; it keeps no record of wrongs; 6 it does not rejoice in wrongdoing but rejoices in the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. 9 For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part, 10 but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. 12 For now we see only a reflection, as in a mirror, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love remain, these three, and the greatest of these is love."
This is the way of Jesus in John 8 He looked on the woman (and the Pharisees) with love. There was no "if you do this then I forgive." Love is first and foremost Jesus way with us.

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It simply amaze me that anyone believes any of the ancient religions which are sjmply superstious beliefs. the knowledge we have today of how mankind got here and the amazing discoveries of just how small we are in relation to the known universe is overwhelming evidence that mna k ow zero about a God if indeed one exists. There is no such thing in our history as a human that was perfectly made and fell from God's grace so we would need to be saved. When you dive into judiaseum and learn that life after death and resurrection pf our dead came from the Persians at the time and that Christianity basic principles came from the various beliefs of its captors ot so plainly evident religion is a manmade Invention. Then you take a look at how Christians treated others in holy wars ,destroying entire cultures with death and destruction it becomes even more evident it is man-made. I went 30 years as a church going Christian until it became evident I was being brainwashed to believe in something that does not exist.
It makes me sad to see so many people who brainwash their children etc to belive something that later in life of they open their minds to the truth will be shocked to find out there os no evidence for an after life a personal God and quite to the contrary, mountains of evidence that all religions are man made devices.
Eventually religion will die out completely as our knowledge presents a picture pf truth and understanding of who we are etc. Much like religion after years pf denying facts, had to admit the Erath was not the center of solar system and or the earth was not flat.

Love and live each day the best you can, cause most likely it is all you have.

I could list over a 100 examples that prove religion os man made and is culture driven, however I will leave up to you to go discover for your selves or you can believe what you want. Humans are so very superstitious by nature and co tinie to be so.

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Love ''em or hate 'em……..Christians do the majority of good works in this country .

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How can you possibly know that fact?

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1. They are still the overwhelming majority of the populace. Saying they are doing the most good works is a objectively true as saying that Christians in the USA are paying the overwhelming majority of taxes. Its simply factual correct.

2. Look up the rates of community service and personal giving....way higher for regular church going Christians than say agnostics.

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Then it is a meaningless statistic. In your estimation there are simply more Christians (at least nominally) that hardly speaks of whether Christians are better than others because of their faith..

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That is why I gave you example number 2

That studies have consistently shown that active regular church attending Christians are MORE generous with their time, money, and service than any other non-religious or religious group in the USA.

https://philanthropydaily.com/new-study-religious-faith-and-reading-the-bible-increases-generosity/

[A new study from the American Bible Society shows that "Practicing Christians" and "Bible Users" remain more generous than non-religious Americansand that this trend held steady through the pandemic.]

If you count the LDS as Christians (certainly they are not Muslims, Jews, or Hindus) the numbers rise again.

https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/penn-research-shows-mormons-are-generous-and-active-helping-others


p.s.

I again wonder why you are a Christian in the first place. You seem to have a never ending problem with Christians in America (especially White ones) and always doubt they are doing anything good at all compared to other religious and non-religious groups.

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Christians are doing good in America, the white ones, too.

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But you constantly doubt this....constantly criticize them over other groups in America....and never miss an opportunity to attack your fellow believers in Christ....why?

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Name one damn quote that I said any of this.