He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I recognize and hold to the authority of scripture, but I do not agree to your interpretation.

---

It is not a matter of interpretation. It is a matter of whether you obey or not.

---

Why obey a questionable interpretation?

boykin_spaniel said:

---

My point still stands that there is disagreement in the scripture among denominations. I have friends who grew up in strict teetotaler households because the scripture to their parents said do not drink. My United Methodist household had no problems with a few bourbons amongst friends and family. Scripture said to my church community don't do stupid things with alcohol. Jesus turned water into wine.
Creeds?
Free Will vs Predestination?
Good work vs faith alone?
Plenty of disagreements.

---

Spoken like a true United Methodist

quash said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Calling you a heretic isn't demeaning or attacking. It simply means you don't hold orthodox beliefs. I do give you credit for being more civil than most of your opponents her

---

Thank you I try to be civil.
A heretical charge is a meaningless charge. By what authority does level the charge against me. It is sloppy thinking. I do stand outside orthodox beliefs but not heretical. I stand within a tradition at 150 years old. Superstition is dying and the schools I advocate want to see the survival of faith (not dogma.)

---

True Got it
The point isn't whether you think you are a heretic. The point is that heresy is the standard charge lobbed when you disagree on theology. Argue the theology, not the label. It's trollbait, ignore it.

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

quash said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Calling you a heretic isn't demeaning or attacking. It simply means you don't hold orthodox beliefs. I do give you credit for being more civil than most of your opponents her

---

Thank you I try to be civil.
A heretical charge is a meaningless charge. By what authority does level the charge against me. It is sloppy thinking. I do stand outside orthodox beliefs but not heretical. I stand within a tradition at 150 years old. Superstition is dying and the schools I advocate want to see the survival of faith (not dogma.)

---

The point isn't whether you think you are a heretic. The point is that heresy is the standard charge lobbed when you disagree on theology. Argue the theology, not the label. It's trollbait, ignore it.

---

or, self-examine after the charge first and then, argue the theology.

---

You should try that.

---

We all should be actually. Yet I never see that kind of humility from you quash, nor Sam. It's as if taking someone else's point seriously is a threat to your ego.

---

Always turning the conversation to name-calling.

---

You might want to pay closer attention, Waco. That's not 'name-calling', it's calling out.

Check the Book of Jeremiah for more details, if you are still confused. Chapter 5, verse 25 in particular.

Also, 1 Kings 22:18 comes to mind.

---

And along comes Jesus "Love one another"

---

You ignore what else He said, I see.

Pew Research just published data on how different groups view each other along religious lines.

Basically no one is pro-Mormon

Jews are extremely anti-Evangelical, even though Evangelicals are extremely pro-Jewish

Jews view Atheists more favorably than any Christians pic.twitter.com/RSfz6oOmz5

— National Conservative (@NatCon2022) March 23, 2023

Waco1947 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I recognize and hold to the authority of scripture, but I do not agree to your interpretation.

---

It is not a matter of interpretation. It is a matter of whether you obey or not.

---

Why obey a questionable interpretation?

---

You still haven't answered my question when you said (in effect) that you supported "faith not dogma," and I asked you "faith in what?"

What is replacing them? pic.twitter.com/qRP7ALcoUe

— James Poulos (@jamespoulos) March 27, 2023

Guilty as charged, though I'm more non denominational now, but definitely like some of Wesley's teachings.

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I recognize and hold to the authority of scripture, but I do not agree to your interpretation.

---

It is not a matter of interpretation. It is a matter of whether you obey or not.

---

Why obey a questionable interpretation?

---

You still haven't answered my question when you said (in effect) that you supported "faith not dogma," and I asked you "faith in what?"

---

Jesus Christ

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I recognize and hold to the authority of scripture, but I do not agree to your interpretation.

---

It is not a matter of interpretation. It is a matter of whether you obey or not.

---

Why obey a questionable interpretation?

---

You still haven't answered my question when you said (in effect) that you supported "faith not dogma," and I asked you "faith in what?"

---

Jesus Christ

---

How you know Jesus? Has He spoke to you? Come to you in a vision perhaps? Maybe, written text? Is it one of these or something else?

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I recognize and hold to the authority of scripture, but I do not agree to your interpretation.

---

It is not a matter of interpretation. It is a matter of whether you obey or not.

---

Why obey a questionable interpretation?

---

You still haven't answered my question when you said (in effect) that you supported "faith not dogma," and I asked you "faith in what?"

---

Jesus Christ

---

How you know Jesus? Has He spoke to you? Come to you in a vision perhaps? Maybe, written text? Is it one of these or something else?

---

All of the above but always define your terms.

Waco1947 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I recognize and hold to the authority of scripture, but I do not agree to your interpretation.

---

It is not a matter of interpretation. It is a matter of whether you obey or not.

---

Why obey a questionable interpretation?

---

You still haven't answered my question when you said (in effect) that you supported "faith not dogma," and I asked you "faith in what?"

---

Jesus Christ

---

How you know Jesus? Has He spoke to you? Come to you in a vision perhaps? Maybe, written text? Is it one of these or something else?

---

All of the above but always define your terms.

---

Why? You take whatever is written and reinterpret it to fit your own desires.

The nonreligious aren't growing where many people would assume.

It's really happening in the middle of the country.

States like Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

Religion is still growing in the Bible Belt, but also big numbers in Florida, too. pic.twitter.com/tiHXqET18a

— Ryan Burge 📊 (@ryanburge) April 2, 2023

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

What is replacing them? pic.twitter.com/qRP7ALcoUe

— James Poulos (@jamespoulos) March 27, 2023

---

What is replacing them?
Likes
Selfishness
Acceptance into a victim class

---

Thoughts and prayers.

Redbrickbear said:

---

The nonreligious aren't growing where many people would assume.

It's really happening in the middle of the country.

States like Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

Religion is still growing in the Bible Belt, but also big numbers in Florida, too. pic.twitter.com/tiHXqET18a

— Ryan Burge 📊 (@ryanburge) April 2, 2023

---

1 - Continually tell people that they are living wrong.
2 - Guilt them into doing what the Church wants them to do.
3 - Continually hit them up for money

Wonder why people are not going to Church....

RMF5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The nonreligious aren't growing where many people would assume.

It's really happening in the middle of the country.

States like Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

Religion is still growing in the Bible Belt, but also big numbers in Florida, too. pic.twitter.com/tiHXqET18a

— Ryan Burge 📊 (@ryanburge) April 2, 2023

---

1 - Continually tell people that they are living wrong.
2 - Guilt them into doing what the Church wants them to do.
3 - Continually hit them up for money

Wonder why people are not going to Church....

---

what does the church want them to do?

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The nonreligious aren't growing where many people would assume.

It's really happening in the middle of the country.

States like Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

Religion is still growing in the Bible Belt, but also big numbers in Florida, too. pic.twitter.com/tiHXqET18a

— Ryan Burge 📊 (@ryanburge) April 2, 2023

---

1 - Continually tell people that they are living wrong.
2 - Guilt them into doing what the Church wants them to do.
3 - Continually hit them up for money

Wonder why people are not going to Church....

---

what does the church want them to do?

---

Well, the Methodists in Houston are big on White Guilt and Gender Guilt.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The nonreligious aren't growing where many people would assume.

It's really happening in the middle of the country.

States like Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

Religion is still growing in the Bible Belt, but also big numbers in Florida, too. pic.twitter.com/tiHXqET18a

— Ryan Burge 📊 (@ryanburge) April 2, 2023

---

1 - Continually tell people that they are living wrong.
2 - Guilt them into doing what the Church wants them to do.
3 - Continually hit them up for money

Wonder why people are not going to Church....

---

what does the church want them to do?

---

You want people to come to Service, stop guilting the **** out of them. I can't go to a service, Catholic or Lutheran and not get hit up for money. If it's not 10% of gross, you are not tithing and are lectured why I should.

In FL Baptist are worse, your whole life has to revolve around their building complex. Yeah, that will attract people to the Word. Too many, the Word is "revenue"...

Forest Bueller said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

What is replacing them? pic.twitter.com/qRP7ALcoUe

— James Poulos (@jamespoulos) March 27, 2023

---

Secular Humnism which is greatly influencing many churches with their overweening focus on self.

---

Maybe thats's all that really matters .

RMF5630 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The nonreligious aren't growing where many people would assume.

It's really happening in the middle of the country.

States like Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

Religion is still growing in the Bible Belt, but also big numbers in Florida, too. pic.twitter.com/tiHXqET18a

— Ryan Burge 📊 (@ryanburge) April 2, 2023

---

1 - Continually tell people that they are living wrong.
2 - Guilt them into doing what the Church wants them to do.
3 - Continually hit them up for money

Wonder why people are not going to Church....

---

what does the church want them to do?

---

You want people to come to Service, stop guilting the **** out of them. I can't go to a service, Catholic or Lutheran and not get hit up for money. If it's not 10% of gross, you are not tithing and are lectured why I should.

In FL Baptist are worse, your whole life has to revolve around their building complex. Yeah, that will attract people to the Word. Too many, the Word is "revenue"...

---

We'll, that answered your #3 by basically repeating #3. Close enough.

Let's try your #2. It sounds like a big concern.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The nonreligious aren't growing where many people would assume.

It's really happening in the middle of the country.

States like Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

Religion is still growing in the Bible Belt, but also big numbers in Florida, too. pic.twitter.com/tiHXqET18a

— Ryan Burge 📊 (@ryanburge) April 2, 2023

---

1 - Continually tell people that they are living wrong.
2 - Guilt them into doing what the Church wants them to do.
3 - Continually hit them up for money

Wonder why people are not going to Church....

---

what does the church want them to do?

---

You want people to come to Service, stop guilting the **** out of them. I can't go to a service, Catholic or Lutheran and not get hit up for money. If it's not 10% of gross, you are not tithing and are lectured why I should.

In FL Baptist are worse, your whole life has to revolve around their building complex. Yeah, that will attract people to the Word. Too many, the Word is "revenue"...

---

We'll, that answered your #3 by basically repeating #3. Close enough.

Let's try your #2. It sounds like a big concern.

---

No, the guilt is much more than just money. It is basically anything the Church doesn't want. They don't just explain what is wrong, they pound on eternal damnation etc. In a time of more educated congregation, it plays as control not moral assistance. Then hitting up for cash makes it worse.

They wonder why attendance is down? Can't use 19th Century tactics on a 21st Century congregation. They will walk away.

RMF5630 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The nonreligious aren't growing where many people would assume.

It's really happening in the middle of the country.

States like Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

Religion is still growing in the Bible Belt, but also big numbers in Florida, too. pic.twitter.com/tiHXqET18a

— Ryan Burge 📊 (@ryanburge) April 2, 2023

---

1 - Continually tell people that they are living wrong.
2 - Guilt them into doing what the Church wants them to do.
3 - Continually hit them up for money

Wonder why people are not going to Church....

---

what does the church want them to do?

---

You want people to come to Service, stop guilting the **** out of them. I can't go to a service, Catholic or Lutheran and not get hit up for money. If it's not 10% of gross, you are not tithing and are lectured why I should.

In FL Baptist are worse, your whole life has to revolve around their building complex. Yeah, that will attract people to the Word. Too many, the Word is "revenue"...

---

We'll, that answered your #3 by basically repeating #3. Close enough.

Let's try your #2. It sounds like a big concern.

---

No, the guilt is much more than just money. It is basically anything the Church doesn't want. They don't just explain what is wrong, they pound on eternal damnation etc. In a time of more educated congregation, it plays as control not moral assistance. Then hitting up for cash makes it worse.

They wonder why attendance is down? Can't use 19th Century tactics on a 21st Century congregation. They will walk away.

---

Other than not giving, guilt in what?

People are different and churches are led by people. Do all the church leaders want the same thing?

Attendance is important, if that's the goal.

It seems odd that if money seems to be the goal the church couldn't figure out that low attendance doesn't lead to big money.

Joel Olsteen doesn't seem to have an issue with attendance or inflicting guilt and the dudes got tons of money coming in. Is he doing it the right way?

"Joel Olsteen doesn't seem to have an issue with attendance or inflicting guilt and the dudes got tons of money coming in. Is he doing it the right way?"

Osteen is completely self-promoting, a dangerous charlatan selling the 'Prosperity Gospel', which leads his congregation into very non-Christian behaviors.

Osteen is very rich, very popular, and hellbound.

Forest Bueller said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

What is replacing them? pic.twitter.com/qRP7ALcoUe

— James Poulos (@jamespoulos) March 27, 2023

---

Secular Humnism which is greatly influencing many churches with their overweening focus on self.

---

Secular humanism has a focus on others, it's practically the defining aspect. We do good for others without the threat of eternal fire, which is the ultimate in overweening focus on self.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The nonreligious aren't growing where many people would assume.

It's really happening in the middle of the country.

States like Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

Religion is still growing in the Bible Belt, but also big numbers in Florida, too. pic.twitter.com/tiHXqET18a

— Ryan Burge 📊 (@ryanburge) April 2, 2023

---

1 - Continually tell people that they are living wrong.
2 - Guilt them into doing what the Church wants them to do.
3 - Continually hit them up for money

Wonder why people are not going to Church....

---

what does the church want them to do?

---

You want people to come to Service, stop guilting the **** out of them. I can't go to a service, Catholic or Lutheran and not get hit up for money. If it's not 10% of gross, you are not tithing and are lectured why I should.

In FL Baptist are worse, your whole life has to revolve around their building complex. Yeah, that will attract people to the Word. Too many, the Word is "revenue"...

---

We'll, that answered your #3 by basically repeating #3. Close enough.

Let's try your #2. It sounds like a big concern.

---

No, the guilt is much more than just money. It is basically anything the Church doesn't want. They don't just explain what is wrong, they pound on eternal damnation etc. In a time of more educated congregation, it plays as control not moral assistance. Then hitting up for cash makes it worse.

They wonder why attendance is down? Can't use 19th Century tactics on a 21st Century congregation. They will walk away.

---

Other than not giving, guilt in what?

People are different and churches are led by people. Do all the church leaders want the same thing?

Attendance is important, if that's the goal.

It seems odd that if money seems to be the goal the church couldn't figure out that low attendance doesn't lead to big money.

Joel Olsteen doesn't seem to have an issue with attendance or inflicting guilt and the dudes got tons of money coming in. Is he doing it the right way?

---

Edit: Olsteen doesn't inflict guilt. I worded that poorly.

He is the warmest and fuzziest of the warm and fuzzies

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The nonreligious aren't growing where many people would assume.

It's really happening in the middle of the country.

States like Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

Religion is still growing in the Bible Belt, but also big numbers in Florida, too. pic.twitter.com/tiHXqET18a

— Ryan Burge 📊 (@ryanburge) April 2, 2023

---

1 - Continually tell people that they are living wrong.
2 - Guilt them into doing what the Church wants them to do.
3 - Continually hit them up for money

Wonder why people are not going to Church....

---

what does the church want them to do?

---

You want people to come to Service, stop guilting the **** out of them. I can't go to a service, Catholic or Lutheran and not get hit up for money. If it's not 10% of gross, you are not tithing and are lectured why I should.

In FL Baptist are worse, your whole life has to revolve around their building complex. Yeah, that will attract people to the Word. Too many, the Word is "revenue"...

---

We'll, that answered your #3 by basically repeating #3. Close enough.

Let's try your #2. It sounds like a big concern.

---

No, the guilt is much more than just money. It is basically anything the Church doesn't want. They don't just explain what is wrong, they pound on eternal damnation etc. In a time of more educated congregation, it plays as control not moral assistance. Then hitting up for cash makes it worse.

They wonder why attendance is down? Can't use 19th Century tactics on a 21st Century congregation. They will walk away.

---

Other than not giving, guilt in what?

People are different and churches are led by people. Do all the church leaders want the same thing?

Attendance is important, if that's the goal.

It seems odd that if money seems to be the goal the church couldn't figure out that low attendance doesn't lead to big money.

Joel Olsteen doesn't seem to have an issue with attendance or inflicting guilt and the dudes got tons of money coming in. Is he doing it the right way?

---

Oh, beside tithing (the favorite of the Protestants, the Catholics are copying on that!) sex life, service attendance, morals in general. The "stick" message is not being received by the younger generations, time to try something else.

Pews are half empty every week. The number of families I see, I can count on one hand. Most are over 40, with a good percent over 60. We go to an early Mass, so probably more at later services but not many. I am seeing Communion and Confirmation classes of 3 to 5. What I made mine, over 150 easy. Data seems to be supporting it. My Adult kids, only on Christmas and Easter. They both went to Catholic school, Church every Sunday, and never missed Communion or Confirmation classes. In their 20's, as I am told, they don't want to hear that living together is a sin or to give 10% of the 50k he makes and can barley survive. It is not an uncommon message.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The nonreligious aren't growing where many people would assume.

It's really happening in the middle of the country.

States like Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

Religion is still growing in the Bible Belt, but also big numbers in Florida, too. pic.twitter.com/tiHXqET18a

— Ryan Burge 📊 (@ryanburge) April 2, 2023

---

1 - Continually tell people that they are living wrong.
2 - Guilt them into doing what the Church wants them to do.
3 - Continually hit them up for money

Wonder why people are not going to Church....

---

what does the church want them to do?

---

You want people to come to Service, stop guilting the **** out of them. I can't go to a service, Catholic or Lutheran and not get hit up for money. If it's not 10% of gross, you are not tithing and are lectured why I should.

In FL Baptist are worse, your whole life has to revolve around their building complex. Yeah, that will attract people to the Word. Too many, the Word is "revenue"...

---

We'll, that answered your #3 by basically repeating #3. Close enough.

Let's try your #2. It sounds like a big concern.

---

No, the guilt is much more than just money. It is basically anything the Church doesn't want. They don't just explain what is wrong, they pound on eternal damnation etc. In a time of more educated congregation, it plays as control not moral assistance. Then hitting up for cash makes it worse.

They wonder why attendance is down? Can't use 19th Century tactics on a 21st Century congregation. They will walk away.

---

Other than not giving, guilt in what?

People are different and churches are led by people. Do all the church leaders want the same thing?

Attendance is important, if that's the goal.

It seems odd that if money seems to be the goal the church couldn't figure out that low attendance doesn't lead to big money.

Joel Olsteen doesn't seem to have an issue with attendance or inflicting guilt and the dudes got tons of money coming in. Is he doing it the right way?

---

Edit: Olsteen doesn't inflict guilt. I worded that poorly.

He is the warmest and fuzziest of the warm and fuzzies

---

Osteen = feel good prosperity "gospel"

Osodecentx said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The nonreligious aren't growing where many people would assume.

It's really happening in the middle of the country.

States like Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

Religion is still growing in the Bible Belt, but also big numbers in Florida, too. pic.twitter.com/tiHXqET18a

— Ryan Burge 📊 (@ryanburge) April 2, 2023

---

1 - Continually tell people that they are living wrong.
2 - Guilt them into doing what the Church wants them to do.
3 - Continually hit them up for money

Wonder why people are not going to Church....

---

what does the church want them to do?

---

You want people to come to Service, stop guilting the **** out of them. I can't go to a service, Catholic or Lutheran and not get hit up for money. If it's not 10% of gross, you are not tithing and are lectured why I should.

In FL Baptist are worse, your whole life has to revolve around their building complex. Yeah, that will attract people to the Word. Too many, the Word is "revenue"...

---

We'll, that answered your #3 by basically repeating #3. Close enough.

Let's try your #2. It sounds like a big concern.

---

No, the guilt is much more than just money. It is basically anything the Church doesn't want. They don't just explain what is wrong, they pound on eternal damnation etc. In a time of more educated congregation, it plays as control not moral assistance. Then hitting up for cash makes it worse.

They wonder why attendance is down? Can't use 19th Century tactics on a 21st Century congregation. They will walk away.

---

Other than not giving, guilt in what?

People are different and churches are led by people. Do all the church leaders want the same thing?

Attendance is important, if that's the goal.

It seems odd that if money seems to be the goal the church couldn't figure out that low attendance doesn't lead to big money.

Joel Olsteen doesn't seem to have an issue with attendance or inflicting guilt and the dudes got tons of money coming in. Is he doing it the right way?

---

Edit: Olsteen doesn't inflict guilt. I worded that poorly.

He is the warmest and fuzziest of the warm and fuzzies

---

Osteen = feel prosperity "gospel"

---

Agreed, and that is the danger. Real faith requires courage to face adversity and hard times. The best Christians I know, were people who never counted money too much of importance, and never counted comfort in this life as their right.

Lakewood is a church known for its lack of charity and help when disasters and bad times hit.

They do not give to homeless shelters, the way Catholic Charities does.

They do not help unemployed find work, the way Second Baptist does.

They do not support the families of imprisoned missionaries in the Middle East and China, the way South Main Baptist does.

Osteen is a fig tree with no fruit.

RMF5630 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

The nonreligious aren't growing where many people would assume.

It's really happening in the middle of the country.

States like Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

Religion is still growing in the Bible Belt, but also big numbers in Florida, too. pic.twitter.com/tiHXqET18a

— Ryan Burge 📊 (@ryanburge) April 2, 2023

---

1 - Continually tell people that they are living wrong.
2 - Guilt them into doing what the Church wants them to do.
3 - Continually hit them up for money

Wonder why people are not going to Church....

---

what does the church want them to do?

---

You want people to come to Service, stop guilting the **** out of them. I can't go to a service, Catholic or Lutheran and not get hit up for money. If it's not 10% of gross, you are not tithing and are lectured why I should.

In FL Baptist are worse, your whole life has to revolve around their building complex. Yeah, that will attract people to the Word. Too many, the Word is "revenue"...

---

We'll, that answered your #3 by basically repeating #3. Close enough.

Let's try your #2. It sounds like a big concern.

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No, the guilt is much more than just money. It is basically anything the Church doesn't want. They don't just explain what is wrong, they pound on eternal damnation etc. In a time of more educated congregation, it plays as control not moral assistance. Then hitting up for cash makes it worse.

They wonder why attendance is down? Can't use 19th Century tactics on a 21st Century congregation. They will walk away.

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Other than not giving, guilt in what?

People are different and churches are led by people. Do all the church leaders want the same thing?

Attendance is important, if that's the goal.

It seems odd that if money seems to be the goal the church couldn't figure out that low attendance doesn't lead to big money.

Joel Olsteen doesn't seem to have an issue with attendance or inflicting guilt and the dudes got tons of money coming in. Is he doing it the right way?

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Oh, beside tithing (the favorite of the Protestants, the Catholics are copying on that!) sex life, service attendance, morals in general. The "stick" message is not being received by the younger generations, time to try something else.

Pews are half empty every week. The number of families I see, I can count on one hand. Most are over 40, with a good percent over 60. We go to an early Mass, so probably more at later services but not many. I am seeing Communion and Confirmation classes of 3 to 5. What I made mine, over 150 easy. Data seems to be supporting it. My Adult kids, only on Christmas and Easter. They both went to Catholic school, Church every Sunday, and never missed Communion or Confirmation classes. In their 20's, as I am told, they don't want to hear that living together is a sin or to give 10% of the 50k he makes and can barley survive. It is not an uncommon message.

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nobody wants to hear what they are doing is sun just as nobody wants to hear they have cancer. But, if a person doesn't know they have cancer, they will not seek a cure. If a person doesn't know they are a sinner, why would they ever seek forgiveness?

RMF5630 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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RMF5630 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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RMF5630 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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The nonreligious aren't growing where many people would assume.

It's really happening in the middle of the country.

States like Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

Religion is still growing in the Bible Belt, but also big numbers in Florida, too. pic.twitter.com/tiHXqET18a

— Ryan Burge 📊 (@ryanburge) April 2, 2023

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1 - Continually tell people that they are living wrong.
2 - Guilt them into doing what the Church wants them to do.
3 - Continually hit them up for money

Wonder why people are not going to Church....

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what does the church want them to do?

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You want people to come to Service, stop guilting the **** out of them. I can't go to a service, Catholic or Lutheran and not get hit up for money. If it's not 10% of gross, you are not tithing and are lectured why I should.

In FL Baptist are worse, your whole life has to revolve around their building complex. Yeah, that will attract people to the Word. Too many, the Word is "revenue"...

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We'll, that answered your #3 by basically repeating #3. Close enough.

Let's try your #2. It sounds like a big concern.

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No, the guilt is much more than just money. It is basically anything the Church doesn't want. They don't just explain what is wrong, they pound on eternal damnation etc. In a time of more educated congregation, it plays as control not moral assistance. Then hitting up for cash makes it worse.

They wonder why attendance is down? Can't use 19th Century tactics on a 21st Century congregation. They will walk away.

---

Other than not giving, guilt in what?

People are different and churches are led by people. Do all the church leaders want the same thing?

Attendance is important, if that's the goal.

It seems odd that if money seems to be the goal the church couldn't figure out that low attendance doesn't lead to big money.

Joel Olsteen doesn't seem to have an issue with attendance or inflicting guilt and the dudes got tons of money coming in. Is he doing it the right way?

---

Oh, beside tithing (the favorite of the Protestants, the Catholics are copying on that!) sex life, service attendance, morals in general. The "stick" message is not being received by the younger generations, time to try something else.

Pews are half empty every week. The number of families I see, I can count on one hand. Most are over 40, with a good percent over 60. We go to an early Mass, so probably more at later services but not many. I am seeing Communion and Confirmation classes of 3 to 5. What I made mine, over 150 easy. Data seems to be supporting it. My Adult kids, only on Christmas and Easter. They both went to Catholic school, Church every Sunday, and never missed Communion or Confirmation classes. In their 20's, as I am told, they don't want to hear that living together is a sin or to give 10% of the 50k he makes and can barley survive. It is not an uncommon message.

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The 10% requirement game is a sin in my mind.

2 Corinthians 9:7

Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

2 Corinthians 8:12

For if the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what one does not have.


If 10% is a requirement, how can we be commanded in the New Testament, not to give under compulsion or as a requirement. If we simply don't have the money, how can you give according to what you don't have.

I think educated Theologians should be taken out to the woodshed for pushing the tithe as if it is a Law, when through Christ we are no longer under the burden of the law. How can you "give freely" if there is a minimum requirement.

Southern Baptist teach it as if it is the 11th commandment. I believe their theology here is in error. I have never been to a SBC church where they didn't say to give your Tithes and Offerings, as if we are still under the Law of the Tithe.

I failed to include this in the previous post; What is the reason you attend mass?