Canada2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Nice try but float the Rio Grande some day. Fish on Lake Amsted. Travel from Lajitas to Presidio


Get back to me. Pulse wildlife need passage.

---

Old fella .... go ahead and try to float the Rio Grande for 3-4 days anywhere between Fort Hancock and El Paso.

Gonna get a border reality check real quick .

---

What's chance of dying if you float 3-4 days in Rio Grande?

I have never had a problem. Looking forward to my annual trip to Nuevo Laredo soon. Some people stay on the porch and bark. Others live to the fullest.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

I have never had a problem. Looking forward to my annual is it to Nuevo Laredo soon. Some people stay on the porch and bark. Others live to the fullest.

---

May you always get what you vote for.

Florda_mike said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Nice try but float the Rio Grande some day. Fish on Lake Amsted. Travel from Lajitas to Presidio


Get back to me. Pulse wildlife need passage.

---

Old fella .... go ahead and try to float the Rio Grande for 3-4 days anywhere between Fort Hancock and El Paso.

Gonna get a border reality check real quick .

---

What's chance of dying if you float 3-4 days in Rio Grande?

---

Very, very !ow.

Florda_mike said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Nice try but float the Rio Grande some day. Fish on Lake Amsted. Travel from Lajitas to Presidio


Get back to me. Pulse wildlife need passage.

---

Old fella .... go ahead and try to float the Rio Grande for 3-4 days anywhere between Fort Hancock and El Paso.

Gonna get a border reality check real quick .

---

What's chance of dying if you float 3-4 days in Rio Grande?

---

My favorite hobby is white water rafting . Including 260 miles on the Colorado River through the Grand Canyon and into Lava Falls ....biggest meanest rapid in continental US ( that one is allowed to chance ) . Try to do one multi day trip each year....usually with my favorite nephew.

Done the Yampa, Green, Poudre, Arkansas and Snake River through Hells Canyon in Washington state . Some several times .

But nothing was more 'exciting' than a float ( no white water ) trip I did years ago on the Rio Grande with some buddies putting in near Yselta , Texas.

Some Mexicans made a point of flashing their rifles at us, ( though did not shoot ) and we were periodically cussed at along the way.

Near the remains of old Fort Quitman ( 45 miles down river from Fabens ) out in the middle of absolutely nowhere , a bunch of illegals attempted to 'borrow' my pickup. It was then our turn for a little 'flashing'. They left...cussing loudly on their way.

Suspect old 47 would have even more 'fun' these days.

"Walls don't work. Illegal immigrants have tunneled underneath and/or erected ramps up and down walls to simply drive over them. People find a way. When East Germany erected its wall, it created a military zone, staffed by booted, machine-gun carrying guards ready to shoot to kill. Yet thousands managed to make it to West Germany anyway. More to the point, do we really want to model ourselves after communist East Germany?" Schecter based on Cato I st

"It's environmentally impractical. Walls have a hard time making it through extreme weather. For example, in 2011, a flood in Arizona washed away 40 feet of STEEL fencing. Torrential rains and raging waters do serious damage. Also, conservative sources generally do not address the environmental harm that walls create, but there is plenty of documentation available that show its potential for irreparable damage to both plant and animal life."
Schecter Basedjon Cato study

Waco1947 said:

---

"It's environmentally impractical. Walls have a hard time making it through extreme weather. For example, in 2011, a flood in Arizona washed away 40 feet of STEEL fencing. Torrential rains and raging waters do serious damage. Also, conservative sources generally do not address the environmental harm that walls create, but there is plenty of documentation available that show its potential for irreparable damage to both plant and animal life."
Schecter Basedjon Cato study

---

You insist on ignoring the success of the 64 mile wall separating El Paso from Juarez.

I honestly don't understand why you ( and others ) do so.

Other comments....

A. We have ground radar to easily detect tunnels.
B. Impact on plants and animals would be minimal out in the desert . And far less than the impact of continued millions of illegals on our citizens. Just how many Americans have to be killed before it 'matters' ?
C. I have irrigation rights via the Rio Grande River. Can't recall ANY major flood . More common...it is almost DRY much of the time .


Let's be honest....shall we 'minister ' ?

Isn't the real issue you are simply in favor of continued massive illegal immigration into the United States ?

" A wall would forces the U.S. government to take land from private citizens in eminent domain battles. Private citizens own much of the land slated for the wall. The costs of the government snatching private land and the legal battles that would ensue are incalculable." Schecter From Cato study

J.R. said:

---

There will be no "wall".

---

There are already walls.

They simply need to be drastically lengthened and upgraded.

I have driven to many isolated border areas in Texas, Arizona and New Mexico where all there is.......is an old rotting barbed wire fence.

If that......

Not one Democrat in Congress has offered sincere condolences to any Law Enforcement family who suffered murder at the hands of an illegal,

That tells you quite a bit there.

Border patrol agents say, "Walls are meaningless without agents and technology to back them up." Are we prepared to pour countless billions annually after the wall is built to create a nearly 2,000 mile, militarized 24-hour surveillance border operation? Because according to patrol agents, that's the only way a wall would work. Again, are we really, going to use East Germany, a brutal communist state, as our model here? Schecter Cato.

Waco1947 said:

---

Border patrol agents say, "Walls are meaningless without agents and technology to back them up." Are we prepared to pour countless billions annually after the wall is built to create a nearly 2,000 mile, militarized 24-hour surveillance border operation? Because according to patrol agents, that's the only way a wall would work. Again, are we really, going to use East Germany, a brutal communist state, as our model here? Schecter Cato.

---

Each and every border patrol agent I have EVER talked to supported a wall.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Not one Democrat in Congress has offered sincere condolences to any Law Enforcement family who suffered murder at the hands of an illegal,

That tells you quite a bit there.

---

Hey Waco, does your heart bleed for the above???

Oldbear83 said:

---

Not one Democrat in Congress has offered sincere condolences to any Law Enforcement family who suffered murder at the hands of an illegal,

That tells you quite a bit there.

---

Link?

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Not one Democrat in Congress has offered sincere condolences to any Law Enforcement family who suffered murder at the hands of an illegal,

That tells you quite a bit there.

---

Link?

---

lololol.

Waco1947 said:

---

"Walls don't work. Illegal immigrants have tunneled underneath and/or erected ramps up and down walls to simply drive over them. People find a way. When East Germany erected its wall, it created a military zone, staffed by booted, machine-gun carrying guards ready to shoot to kill. Yet thousands managed to make it to West Germany anyway. More to the point, do we really want to model ourselves after communist East Germany?" Schecter based on Cato I st

---

Really? That wall was to keep people in, not out.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Not one Democrat in Congress has offered sincere condolences to any Law Enforcement family who suffered murder at the hands of an illegal,

That tells you quite a bit there.

---

Link?

---

LINK ...... that they have?

Sorry to confuse you Jim. I was asking where the poster got the data to make such a statement.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Sorry to confuse you Jim. I was asking where the poster got the data to make such a statement.

---

Oh, sorry to confuse you dip

I thought YOU might have a friggin lib link to disprove since it appeared you knew otherwise?

Should of known you were just defending the lib side without jack to back yourself up, as if you knew something

Dip

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Not one Democrat in Congress has offered sincere condolences to any Law Enforcement family who suffered murder at the hands of an illegal,

That tells you quite a bit there.

---

Link?

---

Al you have to do to prove me wrong, is provide a link to one Democrat Representative or Senator expressing sincere sympathy to the family of a cop killed by an illegal.

Yet, nothing.


That damns you, and you know it.

As the conservatives of the Cato Institute put it, "President Trump's wall would be a mammoth expenditure that would have little impact on illegal immigration." (Emphasis mine) Also it would create many "direct harms:" "the spending, the taxes, the eminent domain abuse, and the decrease in immigrant's freedoms of movement." Cato Conservative Institute

Trumped up fear
"what happened after I posted this conservative-sourced, fact-based list of why the wall is a bad idea?
Silence.
I waited for someone to respond, to engage with me. Where were the angry defenses or rebuttals? But when I searched for the post after a few days, I couldn't find it.
My FB friend had deleted it. You could say, like Trump with the government, he shut me down rather than deal with the facts.
The ugly genius of Trump is his ability to manipulate deep, primal emotions namely fear and hate. He, along with Fox News, have convinced his base that they are in "extreme danger" from immigrants and only a wall will make them "safe."
Unfortunately, the need to "feel" safe is much stronger than the will to grapple with a complex, multi-faceted problem.
And so, here we are, paralyzed by shutdowns at every turn." Schecter

https://medium.com/@vickyalvearshecter/what-happened-when-a-trump-supporter-challenged-me-about-the-wall-e54e86a5edd1

Waco1947 said:

---

As the conservatives of the Cato Institute put it, "President Trump's wall would be a mammoth expenditure that would have little impact on illegal immigration." (Emphasis mine) Also it would create many "direct harms:" "the spending, the taxes, the eminent domain abuse, and the decrease in immigrant's freedoms of movement." Cato Conservative Institute

---

You are the biggest fuggin airhead of all the lefties here and that includes Cinque, with all due respect to Cinque too

Dam drivel in every one of your ignorant posts

Retire your computer please

Do you know what Cato is ? A conservative think tank. All I did was quote them.

Waco1947 said:

---

Do you know what Cato is ? A conservative think tank. All I did was quote them.

---

All you did was cite the bits from Cato you liked, and ignored everything else.

And I noticed you still care nothing for migrants held hostage by cartels, the legitimate immigrants who are hurt by the illegals, or the thousands of American citizens victimized, even murdered, by illegals.

You worship Moloch by your behavior, Waco.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Do you know what Cato is ? A conservative think tank. All I did was quote them.

---

All you did was cite the bits from Cato you liked, and ignored everything else.

And I noticed you still care nothing for migrants held hostage by cartels, the legitimate immigrants who are hurt by the illegals, or the thousands of American citizens victimized, even murdered, by illegals.

You worship Moloch by your behavior, Waco.

---

Link?

Oldbear83 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Not one Democrat in Congress has offered sincere condolences to any Law Enforcement family who suffered murder at the hands of an illegal,

That tells you quite a bit there.

---

Link?

---

Al you have to do to prove me wrong, is provide a link to one Democrat Representative or Senator expressing sincere sympathy to the family of a cop killed by an illegal.

Yet, nothing.


That damns you, and you know it.

---

You made statement yet you ask me to find a link? You just made it up didn't you?

"Where is your evidence for that claim? " This is a direct quote from you on another thread. Hypocrite much?

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Not one Democrat in Congress has offered sincere condolences to any Law Enforcement family who suffered murder at the hands of an illegal,

That tells you quite a bit there.

---

Link?

---

Al you have to do to prove me wrong, is provide a link to one Democrat Representative or Senator expressing sincere sympathy to the family of a cop killed by an illegal.

Yet, nothing.


That damns you, and you know it.

---

You made statement yet you ask me to find a link? You just made it up didn't you?

"Where is your evidence for that claim? " This is a direct quote from you on another thread. Hypocrite much?

---

So you can't find a single link to even one Democrat Representative or Senator expressing sincere sympathy to the family of law enforcement murdered by an illegal.

As expected.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Do you know what Cato is ? A conservative think tank. All I did was quote them.

---

All you did was cite the bits from Cato you liked, and ignored everything else.

And I noticed you still care nothing for migrants held hostage by cartels, the legitimate immigrants who are hurt by the illegals, or the thousands of American citizens victimized, even murdered, by illegals.

You worship Moloch by your behavior, Waco.

---

Well duh! Of course I sited the bits that support my position. Argue the points not name calling. And my points were lifted from Cato.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Not one Democrat in Congress has offered sincere condolences to any Law Enforcement family who suffered murder at the hands of an illegal,

That tells you quite a bit there.

---

Link?

---

Al you have to do to prove me wrong, is provide a link to one Democrat Representative or Senator expressing sincere sympathy to the family of a cop killed by an illegal.

Yet, nothing.


That damns you, and you know it.

---

You made statement yet you ask me to find a link? You just made it up didn't you?

"Where is your evidence for that claim? " This is a direct quote from you on another thread. Hypocrite much?

---

So you can't find a single link to even one Democrat Representative or Senator expressing sincere sympathy to the family of law enforcement murdered by an illegal.

As expected.

---

Deflection.

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Not one Democrat in Congress has offered sincere condolences to any Law Enforcement family who suffered murder at the hands of an illegal,

That tells you quite a bit there.

---

Link?

---

Al you have to do to prove me wrong, is provide a link to one Democrat Representative or Senator expressing sincere sympathy to the family of a cop killed by an illegal.

Yet, nothing.


That damns you, and you know it.

---

You made statement yet you ask me to find a link? You just made it up didn't you?

"Where is your evidence for that claim? " This is a direct quote from you on another thread. Hypocrite much?

---

So you can't find a single link to even one Democrat Representative or Senator expressing sincere sympathy to the family of law enforcement murdered by an illegal.

As expected.

---

Deflection.

---

Not unless you suddenly believe negatives are proven in this way.

Just show me a Democrat who cared about dead cops.

We both know they don't, not when BLM or Illegals are responsible for the murder.

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Not one Democrat in Congress has offered sincere condolences to any Law Enforcement family who suffered murder at the hands of an illegal,

That tells you quite a bit there.

---

Link?

---

Al you have to do to prove me wrong, is provide a link to one Democrat Representative or Senator expressing sincere sympathy to the family of a cop killed by an illegal.

Yet, nothing.


That damns you, and you know it.

---

You made statement yet you ask me to find a link? You just made it up didn't you?

"Where is your evidence for that claim? " This is a direct quote from you on another thread. Hypocrite much?

---

So you can't find a single link to even one Democrat Representative or Senator expressing sincere sympathy to the family of law enforcement murdered by an illegal.

As expected.

---

Deflection.

---

Not unless you suddenly believe negatives are proven in this way.

Just show me a Democrat who cared about dead cops.

We both know they don't, not when BLM or Illegals are responsible for the murder.

---

Come on Quash and LIQ, just show up one democrat that cares about a cop killed??? Just one

Crickets?

Florda_mike said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Not one Democrat in Congress has offered sincere condolences to any Law Enforcement family who suffered murder at the hands of an illegal,

That tells you quite a bit there.

---

Link?

---

Al you have to do to prove me wrong, is provide a link to one Democrat Representative or Senator expressing sincere sympathy to the family of a cop killed by an illegal.

Yet, nothing.


That damns you, and you know it.

---

You made statement yet you ask me to find a link? You just made it up didn't you?

"Where is your evidence for that claim? " This is a direct quote from you on another thread. Hypocrite much?

---

So you can't find a single link to even one Democrat Representative or Senator expressing sincere sympathy to the family of law enforcement murdered by an illegal.

As expected.

---

Deflection.

---

Not unless you suddenly believe negatives are proven in this way.

Just show me a Democrat who cared about dead cops.

We both know they don't, not when BLM or Illegals are responsible for the murder.

---

Come on Quash and LIQ, just show up one democrat that cares about a cop killed??? Just one

Crickets?

---

There are plenty. I'm shocked, shocked, that neither of you are googlers.