C. Jordan said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

So now we know:

The government had been negotiating for months to get these documents.

The search came about because of a legally executed search warrant through federal court.

No one would have known about the search had not Trump tried to use it to his political advantage

The FBI found documents that had the highest secret classification.

Trump cannot wave a magic wand and retroactively and proactively declassify documents.

The way the charges are framed, it doesn't matter if he had declassified them or not.

Breaking these laws are serious matters.

What we don't know:

Why Trump took these documents

Trump's specific knowledge about these documents.

What the top secret documents were about.

The rhetoric of Trump and his supporters have put the lives of FBI agents and DOF officials in danger. They already have blood on their hands with the incident in Ohio.

Once again, for Republicans Blue Lives Matter only sometimes.

---

Update:

Now we know that in June, a Trump lawyer said in a letter, all secret docs had been turned over.

---

do you have a copy of the letter? Link?

whiterock said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

"I don't know what, was shipped down there because I wasn't the GSA people moving those documents, only they do," he said. "They packed them. They admitted that they packed them, which is their job and transported them there and stored them somewhere."

The govt put the files and stuff there yet Trump took them.. LOL

---

And Nat Archives found some classified material there in June while cataloguing the boxes. FBI knew there would almost certainly be more materials. So they pick a spat with Trump lawyers as a pretext to get a warrant. Now the have a security violation.

Trump surprised them by taking it public. But they think they have a win/win/win: either they get a conviction, or string it out forever to keep the issue fresh, or announce refusal to charge so they can show "even-handedness." They will decide the path to take based on public opinion.

---

This is inaccurate.

In June, a Trump lawyer said in a letter all secret materials had been turned over.

Trump took it public because he knew how damaging all this would be, so he's tried to create confusion and a false picture of what happened and why.

As he took it public, he failed to show the warrant and the inventory, as he could have done, because it would contradict the BS he was putting out.

HuMcK said:

---

Just to emphasize how ad hoc and unworkable the latest justification being thrown out there is...

If Trump's position is that all of the documents he took are now declassified, presumably that means they should ALL be available for public viewing?

Per his statement yesterday, this would include EVERY document he EVER took from the Oval Office to the White House residence.

— Jonah Blank (@JonahBlank) August 13, 2022

---

that is a moronic tweet.. its designed to get people talking and it worked.

C. Jordan said:

---

whiterock said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

"I don't know what, was shipped down there because I wasn't the GSA people moving those documents, only they do," he said. "They packed them. They admitted that they packed them, which is their job and transported them there and stored them somewhere."

The govt put the files and stuff there yet Trump took them.. LOL

---

And Nat Archives found some classified material there in June while cataloguing the boxes. FBI knew there would almost certainly be more materials. So they pick a spat with Trump lawyers as a pretext to get a warrant. Now the have a security violation.

Trump surprised them by taking it public. But they think they have a win/win/win: either they get a conviction, or string it out forever to keep the issue fresh, or announce refusal to charge so they can show "even-handedness." They will decide the path to take based on public opinion.

---

This is inaccurate.

In June, a Trump lawyer said in a letter all secret materials had been turned over.

Trump took it public because he knew how damaging all this would be, so he's tried to create confusion and a false picture of what happened and why.

As he took it public, he failed to show the warrant and the inventory, as he could have done, because it would contradict the BS he was putting out.

---

oh good gosh.. Trump is a liar blah blah blah

Garland said narrow scope(which was a lie) blah blah blah

We are after secret documents!! We took binders of photos..

The warrant has talking points for both sides..

Booray said:

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Canada2017 said:

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Booray said:

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Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

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4th and Inches said:

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whiterock said:

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4th and Inches said:

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ScruffyD said:

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the warrant covers the espionage act. therefore, proof would have to have been provided to a judge.

---

18 USC 793 - also called the Espionage Act. This statute "prohibits communicating, transmitting, or delivering to any person not entitled to receive it 'any document, writing, ... or note relating to the national defense,' or attempting to do so."

So they hve proof he tried to give it to somebody? He is entitled to have it based on 1987 SCOTUS ruling..

---

see above. articles/documents do not have to have formal classification indicators to be treated, properly, as classified material.

---

as soon as trump shows all the records he has are not classified, most of it goes to PRA issues which is an absolute nightmare for the Biden admin as it appears they were targeting a political opponent..

---

That is not going to happen. You're dramatically over-reading both the SCOTUS precedent and the Meadows memo.

---

we will see

Based on what has come out so far, it looks as bad for Biden admin as it does for Trump. If it clears him from the fielf, great!

Watch dems get their rears kicked in November and again in 2024 no matter who is GOP canidate..

---

It doesn't matter if the GOP candidate violated the Espionage Act?

---

It doesn't matter if he shot someone on 5th Avenue, so why should an Espionage Act violation matter?

---

Ends justify the means right ?

Stalin provided the blueprint.....' show trials' .

Just charge Trump for spying for the Russians, for the Chinese .....or for spying for the Vatican. Who cares ?

And it Trump doesn't 'confess' line up his family against the wall.

If he does 'confess' then spare Trump's family but by all means line him up against the wall.





Its for the betterment of the country after all .

To protect democracy .

---

It seems obvious that the government had asked for documents and subpoeaned documents.Trump-as his M.O. blew all that off. At some point, you have to either go take them or say" The law does not apply to former presidents."

But that is the equivalent of mass executions? A bit much even for a drama queen like you.

By the way, when are the Dems going to get around to revoking the filibuster rule, making Puerto Rico and D.C. states and packing the Supremen Court? A point I bring up becuase those were your drama queen points when Biden was elected.

---

Don't give a damn about Trump....you shouldn't either .

Instead you are attempting to 'justify' a blatant abuse of authority for political advantage .

Believe me ....if Republicans were doing such incredible bull**** to Barrack Hussein Obama.........I would be just as angry . Because its implications for the future of the United States and its people would be just as grim.

Of course in THAT case you would be be right there with me .

---

And I call absolute bs on the facts that you don't care about Trump or you would defend Obama on anything.

---

I don't like Trump and despise Obama .....but what is important are the traditions that has kept this country from dissolving into banana republic status .

And one of the most important traditions is leaving past presidents alone...otherwise we invite the nightmare often found in central and south American countries .

Pushing the FBI onto ANY presidents home is 100% political assault abusing the offices of the DOJ and FBI. This situation is nothing like Watergate ...and even Nixon's home was never violated.

He Hate Me said:

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Stefano DiMera said:

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I don't think Hillary shredded or flushed classified documents down her toilet that would put the country in a grave security risk.

---

The gist of this true only if you really believe there were solely wedding plans, yoga exercises, and cooking recipes on that server.

---

Once again, do we have any proof besides hear say?

H Clinton told Sullivan to illegal remove classified tags and send unsecure..

No charges..


Jake Sullivan is the current National Security Advisor

In case anybody forgot, destruction of presidential papers is a crime.. right pelosi?

Sam Lowry said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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C. Jordan said:

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4th and Inches said:

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BaylorJacket said:

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Truly a fascinating situation. Trump is stupid enough to illegally take home classified Nuclear documents.

But, the government is absolutely (beyond) corrupt enough to plant evidence.

---

A) nothing he took is classified.. he declassified everything he took by the act of taking it when leaving office.

B) the FBI and NARA had access to the records previously and told him to make them more secure with an additional lock which he did.

As a former president, he has an office, a secured space and security. It was still safe and secure just like the 30000 pages of records Obama has..

Watching to see how the game of warrant chicken playes out..

The warrant affidavit was sealed so I would love to see who "snitched". Supposedly a USS guy..

Both sides are getting riled up and its hilarious to watch.

---

This is totally incorrect.

A) He has to formally declassify documents. His taking them home doesn't declassify them.

B) The FBI believed he had documents he hadn't disclosed. Apparently an informant in Trumpworld clued them in.

Now, we're hearing the docs may have been related to nukes.

Third, his office at Mara Lardo is not a secure classified facility.

The warrant won't tell you who the informant is.

So, you're wrong about it all.

---

OK, my turn

A) Classification depends on a number of factors. Some classifications have sunset provisions so after a certain time they declassify (this was done so academics could access historical docs at Archives w/o a cumbersome process), while some are classified only under certain conditions (e.g. the President's travel plans for a given day are classified for that day and while in office bc routine, but are not classified once the POTUS becomes a former POTUS). Still other documents are classified according to who may or may not see them. For example, some documents would not be classified for Trump bc he created the document or already had prior knowledge of their content, but would be beyond the authority of the FBI agents who raided the residence. The absence of a Special Master at the scene therefore either implies that the documents were not sensitive, or else that the FBI royally screwed up.

B) Speculation. Also, the FBI regularly shields their informants by having the real source submit their tips through a third party who is paid by the FBI to play the role. The circumstances do not rule out someone with a grudge making up **** to go after Trump. There is, after all, precedent for just that behavior.

Regarding nukes, you're going to have a really hard time selling that claim. As POTUS, the closest thing Trump would have seen or handled with regard to nuclear weapons would the the SIOP, which by definition is partly created by the POTUS as CINC (see part A about who has authority to see such material), or an old nuclear codes card, which would be valueless and obsolete by the next day. All in all, that dog won't hunt.

As for 'secure facilities', depending on the level of classification any locked cabinet and door may be sufficient to meet the requirement for secure documents. You need to stop confusing movie glitz with the real world.

So, you're blowing smoke like a Cheech & Chong movie. Only you're not funny at all.

---

The president taking a document home doesn't automatically declassify it. This should be obvious to anyone who's not desperate to come up with a last-ditch defense. The report about the informant and the undisclosed documents isn't speculation. It came from two senior government officials. Your theory that it was made up by someone with a grudge? That's speculation. There are any number of nuclear-related documents other than SIOPS and code cards that a president could see. As for secure facilities, you're probably talking about outdated rules. All classified information currently has to be stored in containers or facilities built according to certain specifications.

---

behind two locks....a locked file safe and a locked door would suffice, particularly when guarded by armed USG personnel.

....like every Embassy I served in, which had a Marine Security Guard on duty at the front door, a lock on the Station door, a lock on a closet door, and a lock on a metal safe, otherwise located amid a miasma of third-world misery which could have boiled over the walls & up the stairs and be working on the locks with crowbars in minutes.

---

The appropriate standard would be NARA regulations, not embassy practice.

---

What is the NARA regulation on storing classified nuclear secrets?

---

Top Secret requires a GSA-approved container with guards, security-in-depth conditions, an open storage facility, or an IDS vault. Nuclear secrets are classified Above Top Secret. I don't know the requirements for that, but presumably they're as strict or stricter. Also an interesting fact -- the president's power to declassify is not absolute. Secrets related to the production and use of nuclear weapons are inherently classified.

---

so can we tell if there were any by the items listed on the warrant reciept?

Things you might have missed during the Trump Raid news cycle:

-FBI/Whitmer entrapment case, it aint helping the FBI look better..

-FBI failed to deliver the Hunter laptop data to Congress by the due date.

-1-year anniversary of the Afghanistan disaster. Still people over there..

Sam Lowry said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Oh?

A lawyer for former President Donald Trump reportedly signed a written statement in June to the DOJ claiming that all classified material had been returned to the government—despite a search this week proving the opposite, according to The New York Times. https://t.co/sABziu4W88

— The Daily Beast (@thedailybeast) August 13, 2022

---

He wasn't lying. What he did by making that statement was retroactively declassify everything on behalf of the president in case it should be found at some later time that Trump won the election. Which makes it de facto Trump's property and off limits for investigation. See the Constitution.

---

Can a former president declassify documents retroactively?

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Let's be honest, there is no time frame you would be satisfied with, so enough with the "election year" nonsense. Trump isn't even on the ballot in 2022, it's technically not an election year for him. Your arguments about timing or supposed bias are not persuasive, they are deflections because you can't credibly say that Trump didn't do what he's accused of.

---

Come on, 2022 is not an election year that Trump is involved? Why the delay? If it is so grievous to use the Espionage Act of 1917 for documents that left when he did in January 2020, why are we discussing now in 2022 3 months before the House and Senate come up for the midterms?

Geez, if you think that DOING ANYTHING to get Trump off the ballot is worth it. Great, disagree but I can see the point. But to say something like this? Did you spit your coffee on the keyboard trying to keep a straight face?

Yeah, this on the up and up. They would be doing this for anyone. "I got some ocean front property in Arizona..."

---

Man, you are really doubling down on the "negotiations and subpoenas are bad" retcon. Did you even hear yourself a few days ago?

---

There is no way you can convince me this has nothing to do with the midterms election.

It is the inconsistency that is getting me. We watched Comey tap dance around why Hillary should not be prosecuted, then Garland is all over it. Just seems awfully convenient timing and very inconsistent use of warrants and subpoenas. I guess that is not a legitimate of reasonable thought process?

---

It's reasonable until you take a closer look at what Hillary did and didn't do. Trump's recklessness brings a lot of excitement to his fans, but it's also a big part of what gets him in trouble.

4th and Inches said:

---

"Currently the Obama presidential materials are housed in a temporary facility in Hoffman Estates, IL, which is not open to the public.

Obama presidential records are administered in accordance with the requirements of the Presidential Records Act (PRA) and will not be subject to public Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests until January 20, 2022."

Above is Copied from Archives.gov website



#7 is interesting..
https://www.obama.org/wp-content/uploads/BOF-NARA-LOI.pdf

As the 9-11-18 letter to NARA states, they agreed to move classified and non classified documents to a secured NARA facility. This was long after Obama left office, it shows he had classified documents and they were not kept to NARA standards.

Double standard? Maybe..

---

"The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) assumed exclusive legal and physical custody of Obama Presidential records when President Barack Obama left office in 2017, in accordance with the Presidential Records Act (PRA). NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA. Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area. As required by the PRA, former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the Presidential records of his Administration."

https://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2022/nr22-001

Osodecentx said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Oh?

A lawyer for former President Donald Trump reportedly signed a written statement in June to the DOJ claiming that all classified material had been returned to the government—despite a search this week proving the opposite, according to The New York Times. https://t.co/sABziu4W88

— The Daily Beast (@thedailybeast) August 13, 2022

---

He wasn't lying. What he did by making that statement was retroactively declassify everything on behalf of the president in case it should be found at some later time that Trump won the election. Which makes it de facto Trump's property and off limits for investigation. See the Constitution.

---

Can a former president declassify documents retroactively?

---

No.

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Truly a fascinating situation. Trump is stupid enough to illegally take home classified Nuclear documents.

But, the government is absolutely (beyond) corrupt enough to plant evidence.

---

A) nothing he took is classified.. he declassified everything he took by the act of taking it when leaving office.

B) the FBI and NARA had access to the records previously and told him to make them more secure with an additional lock which he did.

As a former president, he has an office, a secured space and security. It was still safe and secure just like the 30000 pages of records Obama has..

Watching to see how the game of warrant chicken playes out..

The warrant affidavit was sealed so I would love to see who "snitched". Supposedly a USS guy..

Both sides are getting riled up and its hilarious to watch.

---

This is totally incorrect.

A) He has to formally declassify documents. His taking them home doesn't declassify them.

B) The FBI believed he had documents he hadn't disclosed. Apparently an informant in Trumpworld clued them in.

Now, we're hearing the docs may have been related to nukes.

Third, his office at Mara Lardo is not a secure classified facility.

The warrant won't tell you who the informant is.

So, you're wrong about it all.

---

OK, my turn

A) Classification depends on a number of factors. Some classifications have sunset provisions so after a certain time they declassify (this was done so academics could access historical docs at Archives w/o a cumbersome process), while some are classified only under certain conditions (e.g. the President's travel plans for a given day are classified for that day and while in office bc routine, but are not classified once the POTUS becomes a former POTUS). Still other documents are classified according to who may or may not see them. For example, some documents would not be classified for Trump bc he created the document or already had prior knowledge of their content, but would be beyond the authority of the FBI agents who raided the residence. The absence of a Special Master at the scene therefore either implies that the documents were not sensitive, or else that the FBI royally screwed up.

B) Speculation. Also, the FBI regularly shields their informants by having the real source submit their tips through a third party who is paid by the FBI to play the role. The circumstances do not rule out someone with a grudge making up **** to go after Trump. There is, after all, precedent for just that behavior.

Regarding nukes, you're going to have a really hard time selling that claim. As POTUS, the closest thing Trump would have seen or handled with regard to nuclear weapons would the the SIOP, which by definition is partly created by the POTUS as CINC (see part A about who has authority to see such material), or an old nuclear codes card, which would be valueless and obsolete by the next day. All in all, that dog won't hunt.

As for 'secure facilities', depending on the level of classification any locked cabinet and door may be sufficient to meet the requirement for secure documents. You need to stop confusing movie glitz with the real world.

So, you're blowing smoke like a Cheech & Chong movie. Only you're not funny at all.

---

The president taking a document home doesn't automatically declassify it. This should be obvious to anyone who's not desperate to come up with a last-ditch defense. The report about the informant and the undisclosed documents isn't speculation. It came from two senior government officials. Your theory that it was made up by someone with a grudge? That's speculation. There are any number of nuclear-related documents other than SIOPS and code cards that a president could see. As for secure facilities, you're probably talking about outdated rules. All classified information currently has to be stored in containers or facilities built according to certain specifications.

---

behind two locks....a locked file safe and a locked door would suffice, particularly when guarded by armed USG personnel.

....like every Embassy I served in, which had a Marine Security Guard on duty at the front door, a lock on the Station door, a lock on a closet door, and a lock on a metal safe, otherwise located amid a miasma of third-world misery which could have boiled over the walls & up the stairs and be working on the locks with crowbars in minutes.

---

The appropriate standard would be NARA regulations, not embassy practice.

---

What is the NARA regulation on storing classified nuclear secrets?

---

Top Secret requires a GSA-approved container with guards, security-in-depth conditions, an open storage facility, or an IDS vault. Nuclear secrets are classified Above Top Secret. I don't know the requirements for that, but presumably they're as strict or stricter. Also an interesting fact -- the president's power to declassify is not absolute. Secrets related to the production and use of nuclear weapons are inherently classified.

---

so can we tell if there were any by the items listed on the warrant reciept?

---

No way to tell that I'm aware of.

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

"Currently the Obama presidential materials are housed in a temporary facility in Hoffman Estates, IL, which is not open to the public.

Obama presidential records are administered in accordance with the requirements of the Presidential Records Act (PRA) and will not be subject to public Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests until January 20, 2022."

Above is Copied from Archives.gov website



#7 is interesting..
https://www.obama.org/wp-content/uploads/BOF-NARA-LOI.pdf

As the 9-11-18 letter to NARA states, they agreed to move classified and non classified documents to a secured NARA facility. This was long after Obama left office, it shows he had classified documents and they were not kept to NARA standards.

Double standard? Maybe..

---

"The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) assumed exclusive legal and physical custody of Obama Presidential records when President Barack Obama left office in 2017, in accordance with the Presidential Records Act (PRA). NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA. Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area. As required by the PRA, former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the Presidential records of his Administration."

https://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2022/nr22-001

---

you realize the two contradict each other right? The 2018 letter shows there were records that werent in their control or stored correctly according to NARA standards. And even if they are in control now, in 2018, they were just as unsecure and included classified documents just like Trump supposedly. Its all in the letter Sam.

While we are chatting, thoughts?

"The Warrant violated the overbreadth doctrine of the 4th Amendment requirement of particularity."

ABC BEAR said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

At the end of his presidency, Barack Obama trucked 30 million pages of his administration's records to Chicago...More than five years after Obama's presidency ended, the National Archives webpage reveals that zero pages have been digitized & disclosed..

Obama is a Dem and aint running for office so nobody cares..

---

Historians certainly care. The DOJ doesn't care because, unlike Trump, Obama is cooperating with NARA and they're the ones in charge of digitizing the documents. So it's a very different situation from what Cruz would have you believe.

---

Of course with Obama they call and schedule an appointment. They also leave their guns at home during the interview session with the great one.

---

Forty5th got a call. And a subpoena.

When he ignored those he got a warrant served n him that had gone through three of his appointees.

This is by the book, rule of law stuff

Just like whn it happened to John Wiley Price. A politician.A Democrat. Y'all celebrated the FBI on that occasion.

Huh.

Canada2017 said:

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Booray said:

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Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

whiterock said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

ScruffyD said:

---

the warrant covers the espionage act. therefore, proof would have to have been provided to a judge.

---

18 USC 793 - also called the Espionage Act. This statute "prohibits communicating, transmitting, or delivering to any person not entitled to receive it 'any document, writing, ... or note relating to the national defense,' or attempting to do so."

So they hve proof he tried to give it to somebody? He is entitled to have it based on 1987 SCOTUS ruling..

---

see above. articles/documents do not have to have formal classification indicators to be treated, properly, as classified material.

---

as soon as trump shows all the records he has are not classified, most of it goes to PRA issues which is an absolute nightmare for the Biden admin as it appears they were targeting a political opponent..

---

That is not going to happen. You're dramatically over-reading both the SCOTUS precedent and the Meadows memo.

---

we will see

Based on what has come out so far, it looks as bad for Biden admin as it does for Trump. If it clears him from the fielf, great!

Watch dems get their rears kicked in November and again in 2024 no matter who is GOP canidate..

---

It doesn't matter if the GOP candidate violated the Espionage Act?

---

It doesn't matter if he shot someone on 5th Avenue, so why should an Espionage Act violation matter?

---

Ends justify the means right ?

Stalin provided the blueprint.....' show trials' .

Just charge Trump for spying for the Russians, for the Chinese .....or for spying for the Vatican. Who cares ?

And it Trump doesn't 'confess' line up his family against the wall.

If he does 'confess' then spare Trump's family but by all means line him up against the wall.





Its for the betterment of the country after all .

To protect democracy .

---

It seems obvious that the government had asked for documents and subpoeaned documents.Trump-as his M.O. blew all that off. At some point, you have to either go take them or say" The law does not apply to former presidents."

But that is the equivalent of mass executions? A bit much even for a drama queen like you.

By the way, when are the Dems going to get around to revoking the filibuster rule, making Puerto Rico and D.C. states and packing the Supremen Court? A point I bring up becuase those were your drama queen points when Biden was elected.

---

Don't give a damn about Trump....you shouldn't either .

Instead you are attempting to 'justify' a blatant abuse of authority for political advantage .

Believe me ....if Republicans were doing such incredible bull**** to Barrack Hussein Obama.........I would be just as angry . Because its implications for the future of the United States and its people would be just as grim.

Of course in THAT case you would be be right there with me .

---

And I call absolute bs on the facts that you don't care about Trump or you would defend Obama on anything.

---

I don't like Trump and despise Obama .....but what is important are the traditions that has kept this country from dissolving into banana republic status .

And one of the most important traditions is leaving past presidents alone...otherwise we invite the nightmare often found in central and south American countries .

Pushing the FBI onto ANY presidents home is 100% political assault abusing the offices of the DOJ and FBI. This situation is nothing like Watergate ...and even Nixon's home was never violated.

---

You mean like the traditions of a peaceful transfer of power and conceding an election?

Classics become more relevant over time…💥👇 pic.twitter.com/RSOYbNA650

— VeBee🇺🇸✝️ (@VeBo1991) August 13, 2022

LateSteak69 said:

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Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

whiterock said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

ScruffyD said:

---

the warrant covers the espionage act. therefore, proof would have to have been provided to a judge.

---

18 USC 793 - also called the Espionage Act. This statute "prohibits communicating, transmitting, or delivering to any person not entitled to receive it 'any document, writing, ... or note relating to the national defense,' or attempting to do so."

So they hve proof he tried to give it to somebody? He is entitled to have it based on 1987 SCOTUS ruling..

---

see above. articles/documents do not have to have formal classification indicators to be treated, properly, as classified material.

---

as soon as trump shows all the records he has are not classified, most of it goes to PRA issues which is an absolute nightmare for the Biden admin as it appears they were targeting a political opponent..

---

That is not going to happen. You're dramatically over-reading both the SCOTUS precedent and the Meadows memo.

---

we will see

Based on what has come out so far, it looks as bad for Biden admin as it does for Trump. If it clears him from the fielf, great!

Watch dems get their rears kicked in November and again in 2024 no matter who is GOP canidate..

---

It doesn't matter if the GOP candidate violated the Espionage Act?

---

It doesn't matter if he shot someone on 5th Avenue, so why should an Espionage Act violation matter?

---

Ends justify the means right ?

Stalin provided the blueprint.....' show trials' .

Just charge Trump for spying for the Russians, for the Chinese .....or for spying for the Vatican. Who cares ?

And it Trump doesn't 'confess' line up his family against the wall.

If he does 'confess' then spare Trump's family but by all means line him up against the wall.





Its for the betterment of the country after all .

To protect democracy .

---

It seems obvious that the government had asked for documents and subpoeaned documents.Trump-as his M.O. blew all that off. At some point, you have to either go take them or say" The law does not apply to former presidents."

But that is the equivalent of mass executions? A bit much even for a drama queen like you.

By the way, when are the Dems going to get around to revoking the filibuster rule, making Puerto Rico and D.C. states and packing the Supremen Court? A point I bring up becuase those were your drama queen points when Biden was elected.

---

Don't give a damn about Trump....you shouldn't either .

Instead you are attempting to 'justify' a blatant abuse of authority for political advantage .

Believe me ....if Republicans were doing such incredible bull**** to Barrack Hussein Obama.........I would be just as angry . Because its implications for the future of the United States and its people would be just as grim.

Of course in THAT case you would be be right there with me .

---

And I call absolute bs on the facts that you don't care about Trump or you would defend Obama on anything.

---

I don't like Trump and despise Obama .....but what is important are the traditions that has kept this country from dissolving into banana republic status .

And one of the most important traditions is leaving past presidents alone...otherwise we invite the nightmare often found in central and south American countries .

Pushing the FBI onto ANY presidents home is 100% political assault abusing the offices of the DOJ and FBI. This situation is nothing like Watergate ...and even Nixon's home was never violated.

---

You mean like the traditions of a peaceful transfer of power and conceding an election?

---

Trump acted like a total ass after losing in November .

IMO disqualified himself from any future consideration.

But there was no 'insurrection ' and what the Biden administration has done is horrific .

Nixon was guilty of far worse transgressions and even he never had his house raided.

Canada2017 said:

---

LateSteak69 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

whiterock said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

ScruffyD said:

---

the warrant covers the espionage act. therefore, proof would have to have been provided to a judge.

---

18 USC 793 - also called the Espionage Act. This statute "prohibits communicating, transmitting, or delivering to any person not entitled to receive it 'any document, writing, ... or note relating to the national defense,' or attempting to do so."

So they hve proof he tried to give it to somebody? He is entitled to have it based on 1987 SCOTUS ruling..

---

see above. articles/documents do not have to have formal classification indicators to be treated, properly, as classified material.

---

as soon as trump shows all the records he has are not classified, most of it goes to PRA issues which is an absolute nightmare for the Biden admin as it appears they were targeting a political opponent..

---

That is not going to happen. You're dramatically over-reading both the SCOTUS precedent and the Meadows memo.

---

we will see

Based on what has come out so far, it looks as bad for Biden admin as it does for Trump. If it clears him from the fielf, great!

Watch dems get their rears kicked in November and again in 2024 no matter who is GOP canidate..

---

It doesn't matter if the GOP candidate violated the Espionage Act?

---

It doesn't matter if he shot someone on 5th Avenue, so why should an Espionage Act violation matter?

---

Ends justify the means right ?

Stalin provided the blueprint.....' show trials' .

Just charge Trump for spying for the Russians, for the Chinese .....or for spying for the Vatican. Who cares ?

And it Trump doesn't 'confess' line up his family against the wall.

If he does 'confess' then spare Trump's family but by all means line him up against the wall.





Its for the betterment of the country after all .

To protect democracy .

---

It seems obvious that the government had asked for documents and subpoeaned documents.Trump-as his M.O. blew all that off. At some point, you have to either go take them or say" The law does not apply to former presidents."

But that is the equivalent of mass executions? A bit much even for a drama queen like you.

By the way, when are the Dems going to get around to revoking the filibuster rule, making Puerto Rico and D.C. states and packing the Supremen Court? A point I bring up becuase those were your drama queen points when Biden was elected.

---

Don't give a damn about Trump....you shouldn't either .

Instead you are attempting to 'justify' a blatant abuse of authority for political advantage .

Believe me ....if Republicans were doing such incredible bull**** to Barrack Hussein Obama.........I would be just as angry . Because its implications for the future of the United States and its people would be just as grim.

Of course in THAT case you would be be right there with me .

---

And I call absolute bs on the facts that you don't care about Trump or you would defend Obama on anything.

---

I don't like Trump and despise Obama .....but what is important are the traditions that has kept this country from dissolving into banana republic status .

And one of the most important traditions is leaving past presidents alone...otherwise we invite the nightmare often found in central and south American countries .

Pushing the FBI onto ANY presidents home is 100% political assault abusing the offices of the DOJ and FBI. This situation is nothing like Watergate ...and even Nixon's home was never violated.

---

You mean like the traditions of a peaceful transfer of power and conceding an election?

---

Trump acted like a total ass after losing in November .

IMO disqualified himself from any future consideration.

But there was no 'insurrection ' and what the Biden administration has done is horrific .

Nixon was guilty of far worse transgressions and even he never had his house raided.

---

Dude he tried to overturn an election. It's on tape, we've been over this a million times. I get, kind of, why people voted for him in 2016, but he's been a piece of **** his entire life. I know you think the left is the end of the world, but I fear what trump has done far worse than some empty leftist bull*****

Canada2017 said:

---

LateSteak69 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

whiterock said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

ScruffyD said:

---

the warrant covers the espionage act. therefore, proof would have to have been provided to a judge.

---

18 USC 793 - also called the Espionage Act. This statute "prohibits communicating, transmitting, or delivering to any person not entitled to receive it 'any document, writing, ... or note relating to the national defense,' or attempting to do so."

So they hve proof he tried to give it to somebody? He is entitled to have it based on 1987 SCOTUS ruling..

---

see above. articles/documents do not have to have formal classification indicators to be treated, properly, as classified material.

---

as soon as trump shows all the records he has are not classified, most of it goes to PRA issues which is an absolute nightmare for the Biden admin as it appears they were targeting a political opponent..

---

That is not going to happen. You're dramatically over-reading both the SCOTUS precedent and the Meadows memo.

---

we will see

Based on what has come out so far, it looks as bad for Biden admin as it does for Trump. If it clears him from the fielf, great!

Watch dems get their rears kicked in November and again in 2024 no matter who is GOP canidate..

---

It doesn't matter if the GOP candidate violated the Espionage Act?

---

It doesn't matter if he shot someone on 5th Avenue, so why should an Espionage Act violation matter?

---

Ends justify the means right ?

Stalin provided the blueprint.....' show trials' .

Just charge Trump for spying for the Russians, for the Chinese .....or for spying for the Vatican. Who cares ?

And it Trump doesn't 'confess' line up his family against the wall.

If he does 'confess' then spare Trump's family but by all means line him up against the wall.





Its for the betterment of the country after all .

To protect democracy .

---

It seems obvious that the government had asked for documents and subpoeaned documents.Trump-as his M.O. blew all that off. At some point, you have to either go take them or say" The law does not apply to former presidents."

But that is the equivalent of mass executions? A bit much even for a drama queen like you.

By the way, when are the Dems going to get around to revoking the filibuster rule, making Puerto Rico and D.C. states and packing the Supremen Court? A point I bring up becuase those were your drama queen points when Biden was elected.

---

Don't give a damn about Trump....you shouldn't either .

Instead you are attempting to 'justify' a blatant abuse of authority for political advantage .

Believe me ....if Republicans were doing such incredible bull**** to Barrack Hussein Obama.........I would be just as angry . Because its implications for the future of the United States and its people would be just as grim.

Of course in THAT case you would be be right there with me .

---

And I call absolute bs on the facts that you don't care about Trump or you would defend Obama on anything.

---

I don't like Trump and despise Obama .....but what is important are the traditions that has kept this country from dissolving into banana republic status .

And one of the most important traditions is leaving past presidents alone...otherwise we invite the nightmare often found in central and south American countries .

Pushing the FBI onto ANY presidents home is 100% political assault abusing the offices of the DOJ and FBI. This situation is nothing like Watergate ...and even Nixon's home was never violated.

---

You mean like the traditions of a peaceful transfer of power and conceding an election?

---

Nixon was guilty of far worse transgressions and even he never had his house raided.

---

Nixon behaved differently: Instead of ignoring the subpoena he moved to quash it. When he lost, he complained.

If you want to correlate Nixon and Trump tell me on what basis.

LateSteak69 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

LateSteak69 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

whiterock said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

ScruffyD said:

---

the warrant covers the espionage act. therefore, proof would have to have been provided to a judge.

---

18 USC 793 - also called the Espionage Act. This statute "prohibits communicating, transmitting, or delivering to any person not entitled to receive it 'any document, writing, ... or note relating to the national defense,' or attempting to do so."

So they hve proof he tried to give it to somebody? He is entitled to have it based on 1987 SCOTUS ruling..

---

see above. articles/documents do not have to have formal classification indicators to be treated, properly, as classified material.

---

as soon as trump shows all the records he has are not classified, most of it goes to PRA issues which is an absolute nightmare for the Biden admin as it appears they were targeting a political opponent..

---

That is not going to happen. You're dramatically over-reading both the SCOTUS precedent and the Meadows memo.

---

we will see

Based on what has come out so far, it looks as bad for Biden admin as it does for Trump. If it clears him from the fielf, great!

Watch dems get their rears kicked in November and again in 2024 no matter who is GOP canidate..

---

It doesn't matter if the GOP candidate violated the Espionage Act?

---

It doesn't matter if he shot someone on 5th Avenue, so why should an Espionage Act violation matter?

---

Ends justify the means right ?

Stalin provided the blueprint.....' show trials' .

Just charge Trump for spying for the Russians, for the Chinese .....or for spying for the Vatican. Who cares ?

And it Trump doesn't 'confess' line up his family against the wall.

If he does 'confess' then spare Trump's family but by all means line him up against the wall.





Its for the betterment of the country after all .

To protect democracy .

---

It seems obvious that the government had asked for documents and subpoeaned documents.Trump-as his M.O. blew all that off. At some point, you have to either go take them or say" The law does not apply to former presidents."

But that is the equivalent of mass executions? A bit much even for a drama queen like you.

By the way, when are the Dems going to get around to revoking the filibuster rule, making Puerto Rico and D.C. states and packing the Supremen Court? A point I bring up becuase those were your drama queen points when Biden was elected.

---

Don't give a damn about Trump....you shouldn't either .

Instead you are attempting to 'justify' a blatant abuse of authority for political advantage .

Believe me ....if Republicans were doing such incredible bull**** to Barrack Hussein Obama.........I would be just as angry . Because its implications for the future of the United States and its people would be just as grim.

Of course in THAT case you would be be right there with me .

---

And I call absolute bs on the facts that you don't care about Trump or you would defend Obama on anything.

---

I don't like Trump and despise Obama .....but what is important are the traditions that has kept this country from dissolving into banana republic status .

And one of the most important traditions is leaving past presidents alone...otherwise we invite the nightmare often found in central and south American countries .

Pushing the FBI onto ANY presidents home is 100% political assault abusing the offices of the DOJ and FBI. This situation is nothing like Watergate ...and even Nixon's home was never violated.

---

You mean like the traditions of a peaceful transfer of power and conceding an election?

---

Trump acted like a total ass after losing in November .

IMO disqualified himself from any future consideration.

But there was no 'insurrection ' and what the Biden administration has done is horrific .

Nixon was guilty of far worse transgressions and even he never had his house raided.

---

Dude he tried to overturn an election. It's on tape, we've been over this a million times. I get, kind of, why people voted for him in 2016, but he's been a piece of **** his entire life. I know you think the left is the end of the world, but I fear what trump has done far worse than some empty leftist bull*****

---

We simply disagree . Have traveled the world over ( except for Africa ) experienced central and south America many times and read political history all my life.

What Biden is doing is a huge mistake ...regardless how it finally turns out....we are entering a non ending banana republic mentally of revenge .

No, it is not the end of the world...I apologize if I have given that impression .

But almost every president since Hoover has had political enemies who thought they 'deserved' to be in prison for one reason or another .....yet those that followed them into the White House wisely let matters drop. Not for the sake of the man involved...but for the sake of the stability of United States .

LateSteak69 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

LateSteak69 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

whiterock said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

ScruffyD said:

---

the warrant covers the espionage act. therefore, proof would have to have been provided to a judge.

---

18 USC 793 - also called the Espionage Act. This statute "prohibits communicating, transmitting, or delivering to any person not entitled to receive it 'any document, writing, ... or note relating to the national defense,' or attempting to do so."

So they hve proof he tried to give it to somebody? He is entitled to have it based on 1987 SCOTUS ruling..

---

see above. articles/documents do not have to have formal classification indicators to be treated, properly, as classified material.

---

as soon as trump shows all the records he has are not classified, most of it goes to PRA issues which is an absolute nightmare for the Biden admin as it appears they were targeting a political opponent..

---

That is not going to happen. You're dramatically over-reading both the SCOTUS precedent and the Meadows memo.

---

we will see

Based on what has come out so far, it looks as bad for Biden admin as it does for Trump. If it clears him from the fielf, great!

Watch dems get their rears kicked in November and again in 2024 no matter who is GOP canidate..

---

It doesn't matter if the GOP candidate violated the Espionage Act?

---

It doesn't matter if he shot someone on 5th Avenue, so why should an Espionage Act violation matter?

---

Ends justify the means right ?

Stalin provided the blueprint.....' show trials' .

Just charge Trump for spying for the Russians, for the Chinese .....or for spying for the Vatican. Who cares ?

And it Trump doesn't 'confess' line up his family against the wall.

If he does 'confess' then spare Trump's family but by all means line him up against the wall.





Its for the betterment of the country after all .

To protect democracy .

---

It seems obvious that the government had asked for documents and subpoeaned documents.Trump-as his M.O. blew all that off. At some point, you have to either go take them or say" The law does not apply to former presidents."

But that is the equivalent of mass executions? A bit much even for a drama queen like you.

By the way, when are the Dems going to get around to revoking the filibuster rule, making Puerto Rico and D.C. states and packing the Supremen Court? A point I bring up becuase those were your drama queen points when Biden was elected.

---

Don't give a damn about Trump....you shouldn't either .

Instead you are attempting to 'justify' a blatant abuse of authority for political advantage .

Believe me ....if Republicans were doing such incredible bull**** to Barrack Hussein Obama.........I would be just as angry . Because its implications for the future of the United States and its people would be just as grim.

Of course in THAT case you would be be right there with me .

---

And I call absolute bs on the facts that you don't care about Trump or you would defend Obama on anything.

---

I don't like Trump and despise Obama .....but what is important are the traditions that has kept this country from dissolving into banana republic status .

And one of the most important traditions is leaving past presidents alone...otherwise we invite the nightmare often found in central and south American countries .

Pushing the FBI onto ANY presidents home is 100% political assault abusing the offices of the DOJ and FBI. This situation is nothing like Watergate ...and even Nixon's home was never violated.

---

You mean like the traditions of a peaceful transfer of power and conceding an election?

---

Trump acted like a total ass after losing in November .

IMO disqualified himself from any future consideration.

But there was no 'insurrection ' and what the Biden administration has done is horrific .

Nixon was guilty of far worse transgressions and even he never had his house raided.

---

Dude he tried to overturn an election. It's on tape, we've been over this a million times. I get, kind of, why people voted for him in 2016, but he's been a piece of **** his entire life. I know you think the left is the end of the world, but I fear what trump has done far worse than some empty leftist bull*****

---

link to tape?

Food for thought:

Trump following executive orders most recently issued in 2003 by George W. Bush and Barack Obama in 2009 that specifically exempt the president and vice president from having to follow the stringent declassification procedures every other federal agency and official must follow. They already had statutory authority by the constitution, this compounds that authority and streamlines the process.

When Asked whether there was a standing order to declassify information taken to the residence, one former official "I don't know anyone or anything that disputes that."

Former top aides to prior presidents acknowledged the president's power to declassify was absolute and at times resulted in instant declassification decisions.

The Courts generally have held the president's power to declassify is far-reaching and that the process for how that happens can be specific to each president, something the Bush and Obama executive orders from 2003 and 2009 made clear. Obamas order #13526 specifically exempts POTUS from declassification protocols

Declassification processes established by Executive Order. They are binding on Executive Branch officials, but not on the Office that creates them and in Obamas order, clearly exempt POTUS and VP from them.

4th and Inches said:

---

LateSteak69 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

LateSteak69 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

whiterock said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

ScruffyD said:

---

the warrant covers the espionage act. therefore, proof would have to have been provided to a judge.

---

18 USC 793 - also called the Espionage Act. This statute "prohibits communicating, transmitting, or delivering to any person not entitled to receive it 'any document, writing, ... or note relating to the national defense,' or attempting to do so."

So they hve proof he tried to give it to somebody? He is entitled to have it based on 1987 SCOTUS ruling..

---

see above. articles/documents do not have to have formal classification indicators to be treated, properly, as classified material.

---

as soon as trump shows all the records he has are not classified, most of it goes to PRA issues which is an absolute nightmare for the Biden admin as it appears they were targeting a political opponent..

---

That is not going to happen. You're dramatically over-reading both the SCOTUS precedent and the Meadows memo.

---

we will see

Based on what has come out so far, it looks as bad for Biden admin as it does for Trump. If it clears him from the fielf, great!

Watch dems get their rears kicked in November and again in 2024 no matter who is GOP canidate..

---

It doesn't matter if the GOP candidate violated the Espionage Act?

---

It doesn't matter if he shot someone on 5th Avenue, so why should an Espionage Act violation matter?

---

Ends justify the means right ?

Stalin provided the blueprint.....' show trials' .

Just charge Trump for spying for the Russians, for the Chinese .....or for spying for the Vatican. Who cares ?

And it Trump doesn't 'confess' line up his family against the wall.

If he does 'confess' then spare Trump's family but by all means line him up against the wall.





Its for the betterment of the country after all .

To protect democracy .

---

It seems obvious that the government had asked for documents and subpoeaned documents.Trump-as his M.O. blew all that off. At some point, you have to either go take them or say" The law does not apply to former presidents."

But that is the equivalent of mass executions? A bit much even for a drama queen like you.

By the way, when are the Dems going to get around to revoking the filibuster rule, making Puerto Rico and D.C. states and packing the Supremen Court? A point I bring up becuase those were your drama queen points when Biden was elected.

---

Don't give a damn about Trump....you shouldn't either .

Instead you are attempting to 'justify' a blatant abuse of authority for political advantage .

Believe me ....if Republicans were doing such incredible bull**** to Barrack Hussein Obama.........I would be just as angry . Because its implications for the future of the United States and its people would be just as grim.

Of course in THAT case you would be be right there with me .

---

And I call absolute bs on the facts that you don't care about Trump or you would defend Obama on anything.

---

I don't like Trump and despise Obama .....but what is important are the traditions that has kept this country from dissolving into banana republic status .

And one of the most important traditions is leaving past presidents alone...otherwise we invite the nightmare often found in central and south American countries .

Pushing the FBI onto ANY presidents home is 100% political assault abusing the offices of the DOJ and FBI. This situation is nothing like Watergate ...and even Nixon's home was never violated.

---

You mean like the traditions of a peaceful transfer of power and conceding an election?

---

Trump acted like a total ass after losing in November .

IMO disqualified himself from any future consideration.

But there was no 'insurrection ' and what the Biden administration has done is horrific .

Nixon was guilty of far worse transgressions and even he never had his house raided.

---

Dude he tried to overturn an election. It's on tape, we've been over this a million times. I get, kind of, why people voted for him in 2016, but he's been a piece of **** his entire life. I know you think the left is the end of the world, but I fear what trump has done far worse than some empty leftist bull*****

---

link to tape?

---

You can easily google it and you know it.

LateSteak69 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

LateSteak69 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

LateSteak69 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

whiterock said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

ScruffyD said:

---

the warrant covers the espionage act. therefore, proof would have to have been provided to a judge.

---

18 USC 793 - also called the Espionage Act. This statute "prohibits communicating, transmitting, or delivering to any person not entitled to receive it 'any document, writing, ... or note relating to the national defense,' or attempting to do so."

So they hve proof he tried to give it to somebody? He is entitled to have it based on 1987 SCOTUS ruling..

---

see above. articles/documents do not have to have formal classification indicators to be treated, properly, as classified material.

---

as soon as trump shows all the records he has are not classified, most of it goes to PRA issues which is an absolute nightmare for the Biden admin as it appears they were targeting a political opponent..

---

That is not going to happen. You're dramatically over-reading both the SCOTUS precedent and the Meadows memo.

---

we will see

Based on what has come out so far, it looks as bad for Biden admin as it does for Trump. If it clears him from the fielf, great!

Watch dems get their rears kicked in November and again in 2024 no matter who is GOP canidate..

---

It doesn't matter if the GOP candidate violated the Espionage Act?

---

It doesn't matter if he shot someone on 5th Avenue, so why should an Espionage Act violation matter?

---

Ends justify the means right ?

Stalin provided the blueprint.....' show trials' .

Just charge Trump for spying for the Russians, for the Chinese .....or for spying for the Vatican. Who cares ?

And it Trump doesn't 'confess' line up his family against the wall.

If he does 'confess' then spare Trump's family but by all means line him up against the wall.





Its for the betterment of the country after all .

To protect democracy .

---

It seems obvious that the government had asked for documents and subpoeaned documents.Trump-as his M.O. blew all that off. At some point, you have to either go take them or say" The law does not apply to former presidents."

But that is the equivalent of mass executions? A bit much even for a drama queen like you.

By the way, when are the Dems going to get around to revoking the filibuster rule, making Puerto Rico and D.C. states and packing the Supremen Court? A point I bring up becuase those were your drama queen points when Biden was elected.

---

Don't give a damn about Trump....you shouldn't either .

Instead you are attempting to 'justify' a blatant abuse of authority for political advantage .

Believe me ....if Republicans were doing such incredible bull**** to Barrack Hussein Obama.........I would be just as angry . Because its implications for the future of the United States and its people would be just as grim.

Of course in THAT case you would be be right there with me .

---

And I call absolute bs on the facts that you don't care about Trump or you would defend Obama on anything.

---

I don't like Trump and despise Obama .....but what is important are the traditions that has kept this country from dissolving into banana republic status .

And one of the most important traditions is leaving past presidents alone...otherwise we invite the nightmare often found in central and south American countries .

Pushing the FBI onto ANY presidents home is 100% political assault abusing the offices of the DOJ and FBI. This situation is nothing like Watergate ...and even Nixon's home was never violated.

---

You mean like the traditions of a peaceful transfer of power and conceding an election?

---

Trump acted like a total ass after losing in November .

IMO disqualified himself from any future consideration.

But there was no 'insurrection ' and what the Biden administration has done is horrific .

Nixon was guilty of far worse transgressions and even he never had his house raided.

---

Dude he tried to overturn an election. It's on tape, we've been over this a million times. I get, kind of, why people voted for him in 2016, but he's been a piece of **** his entire life. I know you think the left is the end of the world, but I fear what trump has done far worse than some empty leftist bull*****

---

link to tape?

---

You can easily google it and you know it.

---

audio? Video? Scotch? What am i googlin?

quash said:

---

ABC BEAR said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

At the end of his presidency, Barack Obama trucked 30 million pages of his administration's records to Chicago...More than five years after Obama's presidency ended, the National Archives webpage reveals that zero pages have been digitized & disclosed..

Obama is a Dem and aint running for office so nobody cares..

---

Historians certainly care. The DOJ doesn't care because, unlike Trump, Obama is cooperating with NARA and they're the ones in charge of digitizing the documents. So it's a very different situation from what Cruz would have you believe.

---

Of course with Obama they call and schedule an appointment. They also leave their guns at home during the interview session with the great one.

---

Forty5th got a call. And a subpoena.

When he ignored those he got a warrant served n him that had gone through three of his appointees.

This is by the book, rule of law stuff

Just like whn it happened to John Wiley Price. A politician.A Democrat. Y'all celebrated the FBI on that occasion.

Huh.

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Who the hell is John Wiley Price?

ABC BEAR said:

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quash said:

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ABC BEAR said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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4th and Inches said:

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At the end of his presidency, Barack Obama trucked 30 million pages of his administration's records to Chicago...More than five years after Obama's presidency ended, the National Archives webpage reveals that zero pages have been digitized & disclosed..

Obama is a Dem and aint running for office so nobody cares..

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Historians certainly care. The DOJ doesn't care because, unlike Trump, Obama is cooperating with NARA and they're the ones in charge of digitizing the documents. So it's a very different situation from what Cruz would have you believe.

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Of course with Obama they call and schedule an appointment. They also leave their guns at home during the interview session with the great one.

---

Forty5th got a call. And a subpoena.

When he ignored those he got a warrant served n him that had gone through three of his appointees.

This is by the book, rule of law stuff

Just like whn it happened to John Wiley Price. A politician.A Democrat. Y'all celebrated the FBI on that occasion.

Huh.

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Who the hell is John Wiley Price?

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not from Texas or really young..

Dallas county Democrat since the 80s

4th and Inches said:

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LateSteak69 said:

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4th and Inches said:

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LateSteak69 said:

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Canada2017 said:

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LateSteak69 said:

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Canada2017 said:

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Booray said:

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Canada2017 said:

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Booray said:

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Canada2017 said:

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Booray said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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4th and Inches said:

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whiterock said:

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4th and Inches said:

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ScruffyD said:

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the warrant covers the espionage act. therefore, proof would have to have been provided to a judge.

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18 USC 793 - also called the Espionage Act. This statute "prohibits communicating, transmitting, or delivering to any person not entitled to receive it 'any document, writing, ... or note relating to the national defense,' or attempting to do so."

So they hve proof he tried to give it to somebody? He is entitled to have it based on 1987 SCOTUS ruling..

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see above. articles/documents do not have to have formal classification indicators to be treated, properly, as classified material.

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as soon as trump shows all the records he has are not classified, most of it goes to PRA issues which is an absolute nightmare for the Biden admin as it appears they were targeting a political opponent..

---

That is not going to happen. You're dramatically over-reading both the SCOTUS precedent and the Meadows memo.

---

we will see

Based on what has come out so far, it looks as bad for Biden admin as it does for Trump. If it clears him from the fielf, great!

Watch dems get their rears kicked in November and again in 2024 no matter who is GOP canidate..

---

It doesn't matter if the GOP candidate violated the Espionage Act?

---

It doesn't matter if he shot someone on 5th Avenue, so why should an Espionage Act violation matter?

---

Ends justify the means right ?

Stalin provided the blueprint.....' show trials' .

Just charge Trump for spying for the Russians, for the Chinese .....or for spying for the Vatican. Who cares ?

And it Trump doesn't 'confess' line up his family against the wall.

If he does 'confess' then spare Trump's family but by all means line him up against the wall.





Its for the betterment of the country after all .

To protect democracy .

---

It seems obvious that the government had asked for documents and subpoeaned documents.Trump-as his M.O. blew all that off. At some point, you have to either go take them or say" The law does not apply to former presidents."

But that is the equivalent of mass executions? A bit much even for a drama queen like you.

By the way, when are the Dems going to get around to revoking the filibuster rule, making Puerto Rico and D.C. states and packing the Supremen Court? A point I bring up becuase those were your drama queen points when Biden was elected.

---

Don't give a damn about Trump....you shouldn't either .

Instead you are attempting to 'justify' a blatant abuse of authority for political advantage .

Believe me ....if Republicans were doing such incredible bull**** to Barrack Hussein Obama.........I would be just as angry . Because its implications for the future of the United States and its people would be just as grim.

Of course in THAT case you would be be right there with me .

---

And I call absolute bs on the facts that you don't care about Trump or you would defend Obama on anything.

---

I don't like Trump and despise Obama .....but what is important are the traditions that has kept this country from dissolving into banana republic status .

And one of the most important traditions is leaving past presidents alone...otherwise we invite the nightmare often found in central and south American countries .

Pushing the FBI onto ANY presidents home is 100% political assault abusing the offices of the DOJ and FBI. This situation is nothing like Watergate ...and even Nixon's home was never violated.

---

You mean like the traditions of a peaceful transfer of power and conceding an election?

---

Trump acted like a total ass after losing in November .

IMO disqualified himself from any future consideration.

But there was no 'insurrection ' and what the Biden administration has done is horrific .

Nixon was guilty of far worse transgressions and even he never had his house raided.

---

Dude he tried to overturn an election. It's on tape, we've been over this a million times. I get, kind of, why people voted for him in 2016, but he's been a piece of **** his entire life. I know you think the left is the end of the world, but I fear what trump has done far worse than some empty leftist bull*****

---

link to tape?

---

You can easily google it and you know it.

---

audio? Video? Scotch? What am i googlin?

---

Alexis Texas

LateSteak69 said:

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4th and Inches said:

---

LateSteak69 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

LateSteak69 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

LateSteak69 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

whiterock said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

ScruffyD said:

---

the warrant covers the espionage act. therefore, proof would have to have been provided to a judge.

---

18 USC 793 - also called the Espionage Act. This statute "prohibits communicating, transmitting, or delivering to any person not entitled to receive it 'any document, writing, ... or note relating to the national defense,' or attempting to do so."

So they hve proof he tried to give it to somebody? He is entitled to have it based on 1987 SCOTUS ruling..

---

see above. articles/documents do not have to have formal classification indicators to be treated, properly, as classified material.

---

as soon as trump shows all the records he has are not classified, most of it goes to PRA issues which is an absolute nightmare for the Biden admin as it appears they were targeting a political opponent..

---

That is not going to happen. You're dramatically over-reading both the SCOTUS precedent and the Meadows memo.

---

we will see

Based on what has come out so far, it looks as bad for Biden admin as it does for Trump. If it clears him from the fielf, great!

Watch dems get their rears kicked in November and again in 2024 no matter who is GOP canidate..

---

It doesn't matter if the GOP candidate violated the Espionage Act?

---

It doesn't matter if he shot someone on 5th Avenue, so why should an Espionage Act violation matter?

---

Ends justify the means right ?

Stalin provided the blueprint.....' show trials' .

Just charge Trump for spying for the Russians, for the Chinese .....or for spying for the Vatican. Who cares ?

And it Trump doesn't 'confess' line up his family against the wall.

If he does 'confess' then spare Trump's family but by all means line him up against the wall.





Its for the betterment of the country after all .

To protect democracy .

---

It seems obvious that the government had asked for documents and subpoeaned documents.Trump-as his M.O. blew all that off. At some point, you have to either go take them or say" The law does not apply to former presidents."

But that is the equivalent of mass executions? A bit much even for a drama queen like you.

By the way, when are the Dems going to get around to revoking the filibuster rule, making Puerto Rico and D.C. states and packing the Supremen Court? A point I bring up becuase those were your drama queen points when Biden was elected.

---

Don't give a damn about Trump....you shouldn't either .

Instead you are attempting to 'justify' a blatant abuse of authority for political advantage .

Believe me ....if Republicans were doing such incredible bull**** to Barrack Hussein Obama.........I would be just as angry . Because its implications for the future of the United States and its people would be just as grim.

Of course in THAT case you would be be right there with me .

---

And I call absolute bs on the facts that you don't care about Trump or you would defend Obama on anything.

---

I don't like Trump and despise Obama .....but what is important are the traditions that has kept this country from dissolving into banana republic status .

And one of the most important traditions is leaving past presidents alone...otherwise we invite the nightmare often found in central and south American countries .

Pushing the FBI onto ANY presidents home is 100% political assault abusing the offices of the DOJ and FBI. This situation is nothing like Watergate ...and even Nixon's home was never violated.

---

You mean like the traditions of a peaceful transfer of power and conceding an election?

---

Trump acted like a total ass after losing in November .

IMO disqualified himself from any future consideration.

But there was no 'insurrection ' and what the Biden administration has done is horrific .

Nixon was guilty of far worse transgressions and even he never had his house raided.

---

Dude he tried to overturn an election. It's on tape, we've been over this a million times. I get, kind of, why people voted for him in 2016, but he's been a piece of **** his entire life. I know you think the left is the end of the world, but I fear what trump has done far worse than some empty leftist bull*****

---

link to tape?

---

You can easily google it and you know it.

---

audio? Video? Scotch? What am i googlin?

---

Alexis Texas

---

Although, nothing in that tape was about Trump overthrowing the govt

LateSteak69 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

LateSteak69 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

LateSteak69 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

LateSteak69 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

whiterock said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

ScruffyD said:

---

the warrant covers the espionage act. therefore, proof would have to have been provided to a judge.

---

18 USC 793 - also called the Espionage Act. This statute "prohibits communicating, transmitting, or delivering to any person not entitled to receive it 'any document, writing, ... or note relating to the national defense,' or attempting to do so."

So they hve proof he tried to give it to somebody? He is entitled to have it based on 1987 SCOTUS ruling..

---

see above. articles/documents do not have to have formal classification indicators to be treated, properly, as classified material.

---

as soon as trump shows all the records he has are not classified, most of it goes to PRA issues which is an absolute nightmare for the Biden admin as it appears they were targeting a political opponent..

---

That is not going to happen. You're dramatically over-reading both the SCOTUS precedent and the Meadows memo.

---

we will see

Based on what has come out so far, it looks as bad for Biden admin as it does for Trump. If it clears him from the fielf, great!

Watch dems get their rears kicked in November and again in 2024 no matter who is GOP canidate..

---

It doesn't matter if the GOP candidate violated the Espionage Act?

---

It doesn't matter if he shot someone on 5th Avenue, so why should an Espionage Act violation matter?

---

Ends justify the means right ?

Stalin provided the blueprint.....' show trials' .

Just charge Trump for spying for the Russians, for the Chinese .....or for spying for the Vatican. Who cares ?

And it Trump doesn't 'confess' line up his family against the wall.

If he does 'confess' then spare Trump's family but by all means line him up against the wall.





Its for the betterment of the country after all .

To protect democracy .

---

It seems obvious that the government had asked for documents and subpoeaned documents.Trump-as his M.O. blew all that off. At some point, you have to either go take them or say" The law does not apply to former presidents."

But that is the equivalent of mass executions? A bit much even for a drama queen like you.

By the way, when are the Dems going to get around to revoking the filibuster rule, making Puerto Rico and D.C. states and packing the Supremen Court? A point I bring up becuase those were your drama queen points when Biden was elected.

---

Don't give a damn about Trump....you shouldn't either .

Instead you are attempting to 'justify' a blatant abuse of authority for political advantage .

Believe me ....if Republicans were doing such incredible bull**** to Barrack Hussein Obama.........I would be just as angry . Because its implications for the future of the United States and its people would be just as grim.

Of course in THAT case you would be be right there with me .

---

And I call absolute bs on the facts that you don't care about Trump or you would defend Obama on anything.

---

I don't like Trump and despise Obama .....but what is important are the traditions that has kept this country from dissolving into banana republic status .

And one of the most important traditions is leaving past presidents alone...otherwise we invite the nightmare often found in central and south American countries .

Pushing the FBI onto ANY presidents home is 100% political assault abusing the offices of the DOJ and FBI. This situation is nothing like Watergate ...and even Nixon's home was never violated.

---

You mean like the traditions of a peaceful transfer of power and conceding an election?

---

Trump acted like a total ass after losing in November .

IMO disqualified himself from any future consideration.

But there was no 'insurrection ' and what the Biden administration has done is horrific .

Nixon was guilty of far worse transgressions and even he never had his house raided.

---

Dude he tried to overturn an election. It's on tape, we've been over this a million times. I get, kind of, why people voted for him in 2016, but he's been a piece of **** his entire life. I know you think the left is the end of the world, but I fear what trump has done far worse than some empty leftist bull*****

---

link to tape?

---

You can easily google it and you know it.

---

audio? Video? Scotch? What am i googlin?

---

Alexis Texas

---

This is without a doubt your best post ever. Hands down. Bottoms up! Whatever!!!

Newsweek is up to more stupidity.. got burned already with the Garland didnt know article and now they tossing out that there were payroll records of spies in the old cubbard under the stairs at Mar A Lago

4th and Inches said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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4th and Inches said:

---

"Currently the Obama presidential materials are housed in a temporary facility in Hoffman Estates, IL, which is not open to the public.

Obama presidential records are administered in accordance with the requirements of the Presidential Records Act (PRA) and will not be subject to public Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests until January 20, 2022."

Above is Copied from Archives.gov website



#7 is interesting..
https://www.obama.org/wp-content/uploads/BOF-NARA-LOI.pdf

As the 9-11-18 letter to NARA states, they agreed to move classified and non classified documents to a secured NARA facility. This was long after Obama left office, it shows he had classified documents and they were not kept to NARA standards.

Double standard? Maybe..

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"The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) assumed exclusive legal and physical custody of Obama Presidential records when President Barack Obama left office in 2017, in accordance with the Presidential Records Act (PRA). NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA. Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area. As required by the PRA, former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the Presidential records of his Administration."

https://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2022/nr22-001

---

you realize the two contradict each other right? The 2018 letter shows there were records that werent in their control or stored correctly according to NARA standards. And even if they are in control now, in 2018, they were just as unsecure and included classified documents just like Trump supposedly. Its all in the letter Sam.

While we are chatting, thoughts?

"The Warrant violated the overbreadth doctrine of the 4th Amendment requirement of particularity."

---

No, there's no contradiction. The Hoffman Estates facility referred to in #7 is the Obama Presidential Library, operated by NARA.

The warrant specified evidence related to the crimes alleged, i.e. mishandling of documents, so I don't think it was overbroad.

4th and Inches said:

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Obamas order #13526 specifically exempts POTUS from declassification protocols

---

Which section of the order is that?