Sam Lowry said:

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...at a location guarded by the United States Secret Service

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Stop deluding these poor people. You know good and well the Secret Service isn't there to monitor what Trump does with his documents.

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Neither are the Marine Security Guards (MSGs) at our Embassies abroad there to monitor what US diplomats do with their documents. %A0

Both are, however, deployed to protect US Govt personnel and facilities, to specifically include preventing access by unauthorized individuals to facilities, thereby sharply limiting unauthorized access to classified materials at those facilities. %A0 Each has specific responsibility to defend the living as well as work spaces of POTUS or equivalent. %A0(A US Ambassador is the PERSONAL representative to POTUS and the senior USG official in country, save for a designated theater commander of the US Military.)

So, actually, the only upgrade to the USSS for the purposes of protecting classified material from unauthorized use would be an armed US military detachment.

(Sorry, but you kinda walked into the proverbial %A0tree limb on that one)

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There's nothing to be sorry about except for that word salad you just spilled. None of it changes a thing, and you know it. Mar-a-Lago is a hotel, not a government facility. The Secret Service are there to keep out weapons and wiretaps. They have no real idea who's coming or going, let alone who's "authorized."

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Wrong. %A0 MAL is also a personal residence and office. %A0 %A0USSS was/is %A0deployed there to protect the President of the United States, his person, his residence, and his office. %A0 Access does not happen without their approval. %A0 %A0That is/was true at the Bush Ranch, at the Bush home in Dallas, at the Obama home, etc%85.exceedingly well defended. %A0 Access is logged in/out, cameras, armed patrols, etc%85.

Documents at the residence of a former POTUS are better defended than at any Embassy abroad. %A0

You do not know what you are talking about and are saying demonstrably silly things. %A0 %A0

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You do know what you're talking about (presumably) and are saying demonstrably silly things...which is worse.

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Ok. %A0Elaborate.

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You've talked at great length about safeguards in embassies and document storage facilities, safeguards on which your career depended. Now you're telling us none of that matters as long as a few Secret Service agents are around. Do you think SS is scouring rooms and looking behind filing cabinets for stray documents? Obviously not, if the FBI found loose documents in desk drawers as has been reported. Shouldn't be a surprise because it isn't their job.

Other ex-presidential homes don't have a steady stream of visitors like MAL does. Not just members, but guests of members, and people sponsored by members. The real point isn't that MAL is uniquely bad (even though it is, by all reports). The point is that it's not expected to have appropriate security for top secret material because former presidents aren't expected to take top secret material home with them. And no other president has, despite the lies still lingering in the air from Sen. Cruz.

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Ok, Skippy. %A0 I also worked at Langley, behind armed guards, badge-key entry barriers, and combination locked doors securing entire office suites, and at other secure facilities in the No. Virginia area. %A0Also trained in secure locations across the USA, to include facilities controlled by other govt agencies.

But here's the real hole in your argument: %A0 Camp David has max level physical and document security protocols. %A0Why? %A0Because Presidents occasionally handle matters of state there. %A0 %A0When LBJ was alive, his ranch had all that. Why? %A0Because he occasionally handled matters of state there. %A0 Same for Carter's residence. %A0Reagan's ranch. %A0Bush 41's Houston home. %A0Bush 43's ranch in Crawford. %A0

Need I go on?

in 2016, MAL was, like every other personal residence/retreat of a newly elected POTUS, retro-fitted with all necessary upgrades to make secure the sitting President of the United States and any official functions he performed there. %A0 Those remain in place after that POTUS leave office, with amendments to reflect reduced communication needs, USSS staffing, etc....

Don't be a doofus. %A0 The argument "MAL is insecure" is quite possibly the weakest argument you could make. %A0You literally do not know enough to realize how much you do not know.

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You sure do know a lot. Even more than the DOJ lawyers running the investigation, apparently. Here's what they said, as quoted in the affidavit:

Quote:

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As I previously indicated to you, Mar-a-Lago does not include a secure location authorized for the storage of classified information. As such, it appears that since the time classified documents were removed from the secure facilities at the White House and moved to Mar-a-Lago on or around January 20, 2021, they have not been handled in an appropriate manner or stored in an appropriate location.

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You also told me that no access to MAL happens without Secret Service approval. I guess you didn't tell those doofuses in the Secret Service:

Quote:

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The Secret Service said when Trump was president that it does not determine who is granted access to the club, but does do physical screenings to make sure no one brings in prohibited items, and further screening for guests in proximity to the president and other protectees.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/trumps-mar-a-lago-security-nightmare-that-housed-classified-documents-2022-08-13/

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Reminds me of that Navy v. Egan case we were talking about earlier, where the court said Congress could limit the president's classification power. Turns out the court was wrong because...well, because you said so! And to think of all the time I wasted in school, when I could have been here, studying at your feet.

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well done on the selective and misleading explanation of Egan.

And equally selective and misleading on the explanation of security at MAL. %A0Secret Service does not protect the club. %A0It protects the residence, which was a secure facility 18 months ago. %A0 No one ever expressed outrage that Presidential business was transacted there during Trump's term. %A0 Did they? %A0Did we miss it somehow? %A0 So tell us what changed. %A0 Be specific. %A0Prove your work.

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Actually there were concerns even during his presidency. I posted this article a few pages back. Remarkably, the affidavit concluded that no space within the premises has been authorized for storage of classified information at least since the end of FPOTUS' presidential administration on January 20, 2021. As for specific measures, those would likely be found in the redacted parts of the affidavit. I'm sure your background would allow you to speculate profusely on the details. I will leave that to you. What matters in this discussion is that MAL is not a secure location for document storage purposes and hasn't been for quite some time.

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HuMcK said:

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All of that may be well and good...except that we know they found classified documents outside of that room you call secure. Now we also know that they also found around 50 empty folders (!) with classification markings.

There just is no way to spin this, other than admitting Trump royally fcked up.

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HuMcK said:

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The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

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HuMcK said:

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Spin it however you want, doesn't make it convincing though.

The reason for using burn bags and establishing chain of custody is so we know something has actually been disposed of, instead of taking someone's word about it. You assume the records were destroyed (based on seemingly nothing at all), but without any verification it's just as likely they weren't. If documents are missing, and destruction cannot be confirmed...you or I would already be in prison for that.

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whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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...at a location guarded by the United States Secret Service

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Stop deluding these poor people. You know good and well the Secret Service isn't there to monitor what Trump does with his documents.

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Neither are the Marine Security Guards (MSGs) at our Embassies abroad there to monitor what US diplomats do with their documents. %A0

Both are, however, deployed to protect US Govt personnel and facilities, to specifically include preventing access by unauthorized individuals to facilities, thereby sharply limiting unauthorized access to classified materials at those facilities. %A0 Each has specific responsibility to defend the living as well as work spaces of POTUS or equivalent. %A0(A US Ambassador is the PERSONAL representative to POTUS and the senior USG official in country, save for a designated theater commander of the US Military.)

So, actually, the only upgrade to the USSS for the purposes of protecting classified material from unauthorized use would be an armed US military detachment.

(Sorry, but you kinda walked into the proverbial %A0tree limb on that one)

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There's nothing to be sorry about except for that word salad you just spilled. None of it changes a thing, and you know it. Mar-a-Lago is a hotel, not a government facility. The Secret Service are there to keep out weapons and wiretaps. They have no real idea who's coming or going, let alone who's "authorized."

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Wrong. %A0 MAL is also a personal residence and office. %A0 %A0USSS was/is %A0deployed there to protect the President of the United States, his person, his residence, and his office. %A0 Access does not happen without their approval. %A0 %A0That is/was true at the Bush Ranch, at the Bush home in Dallas, at the Obama home, etc%85.exceedingly well defended. %A0 Access is logged in/out, cameras, armed patrols, etc%85.

Documents at the residence of a former POTUS are better defended than at any Embassy abroad. %A0

You do not know what you are talking about and are saying demonstrably silly things. %A0 %A0

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You do know what you're talking about (presumably) and are saying demonstrably silly things...which is worse.

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Ok. %A0Elaborate.

---

You've talked at great length about safeguards in embassies and document storage facilities, safeguards on which your career depended. Now you're telling us none of that matters as long as a few Secret Service agents are around. Do you think SS is scouring rooms and looking behind filing cabinets for stray documents? Obviously not, if the FBI found loose documents in desk drawers as has been reported. Shouldn't be a surprise because it isn't their job.

Other ex-presidential homes don't have a steady stream of visitors like MAL does. Not just members, but guests of members, and people sponsored by members. The real point isn't that MAL is uniquely bad (even though it is, by all reports). The point is that it's not expected to have appropriate security for top secret material because former presidents aren't expected to take top secret material home with them. And no other president has, despite the lies still lingering in the air from Sen. Cruz.

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Ok, Skippy. %A0 I also worked at Langley, behind armed guards, badge-key entry barriers, and combination locked doors securing entire office suites, and at other secure facilities in the No. Virginia area. %A0Also trained in secure locations across the USA, to include facilities controlled by other govt agencies.

But here's the real hole in your argument: %A0 Camp David has max level physical and document security protocols. %A0Why? %A0Because Presidents occasionally handle matters of state there. %A0 %A0When LBJ was alive, his ranch had all that. Why? %A0Because he occasionally handled matters of state there. %A0 Same for Carter's residence. %A0Reagan's ranch. %A0Bush 41's Houston home. %A0Bush 43's ranch in Crawford. %A0

Need I go on?

in 2016, MAL was, like every other personal residence/retreat of a newly elected POTUS, retro-fitted with all necessary upgrades to make secure the sitting President of the United States and any official functions he performed there. %A0 Those remain in place after that POTUS leave office, with amendments to reflect reduced communication needs, USSS staffing, etc....

Don't be a doofus. %A0 The argument "MAL is insecure" is quite possibly the weakest argument you could make. %A0You literally do not know enough to realize how much you do not know.

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You sure do know a lot. Even more than the DOJ lawyers running the investigation, apparently. Here's what they said, as quoted in the affidavit:

Quote:

---

As I previously indicated to you, Mar-a-Lago does not include a secure location authorized for the storage of classified information. As such, it appears that since the time classified documents were removed from the secure facilities at the White House and moved to Mar-a-Lago on or around January 20, 2021, they have not been handled in an appropriate manner or stored in an appropriate location.

---

You also told me that no access to MAL happens without Secret Service approval. I guess you didn't tell those doofuses in the Secret Service:

Quote:

---

The Secret Service said when Trump was president that it does not determine who is granted access to the club, but does do physical screenings to make sure no one brings in prohibited items, and further screening for guests in proximity to the president and other protectees.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/trumps-mar-a-lago-security-nightmare-that-housed-classified-documents-2022-08-13/

---

Reminds me of that Navy v. Egan case we were talking about earlier, where the court said Congress could limit the president's classification power. Turns out the court was wrong because...well, because you said so! And to think of all the time I wasted in school, when I could have been here, studying at your feet.

---

well done on the selective and misleading explanation of Egan.

And equally selective and misleading on the explanation of security at MAL. %A0Secret Service does not protect the club. %A0It protects the residence, which was a secure facility 18 months ago. %A0 No one ever expressed outrage that Presidential business was transacted there during Trump's term. %A0 Did they? %A0Did we miss it somehow? %A0 So tell us what changed. %A0 Be specific. %A0Prove your work.

---

Actually there were concerns even during his presidency. I posted this article a few pages back. Remarkably, the affidavit concluded that no space within the premises has been authorized for storage of classified information at least since the end of FPOTUS' presidential administration on January 20, 2021. As for specific measures, those would likely be found in the redacted parts of the affidavit. I'm sure your background would allow you to speculate profusely on the details. I will leave that to you. What matters in this discussion is that MAL is not a secure location for document storage purposes and hasn't been for quite some time.

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the answer you should have provided is this: they removed the safes where classified documents were stored during the Trump Presidency.

Classified materials must be stored behind a combination lock, protected by USG physical perimeter security. That's why NARA requested after their visit in Februrary 2022 that a lock be placed on the door to the room where the boxes were stored. And that request was fulfilled. The SS perimeter security has never left. So, technically, the MAL residence was at the pre-20Jan2020 standard at the time of the raid with respect to storage of classified materials. It had a designated room with a combination lock in a facility protected by armed USG personnel.

So the violation in question is about storage of declassified documents being stored outside of a classified safe in an area otherwise meeting standards for storage of classified material.

Obviously, it was therefore necessary to send FBI agents to raid the home of political opponent during an election.

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Golem said:

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HuMcK said:

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Spin it however you want, doesn't make it convincing though.

The reason for using burn bags and establishing chain of custody is so we know something has actually been disposed of, instead of taking someone's word about it. You assume the records were destroyed (based on seemingly nothing at all), but without any verification it's just as likely they weren't. If documents are missing, and destruction cannot be confirmed...you or I would already be in prison for that.

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Chain of custody? In the IC? LOLOLOLOLOL!!! You are confusing intelligence with law enforcement.

Explain how you understand burn bags to be used. You don't seem to understand.

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HuMcK said:

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All of that may be well and good...except that we know they found classified documents outside of that room you call secure. Now we also know that they also found around 50 empty folders (!) with classification markings.

There just is no way to spin this, other than admitting Trump royally fcked up.

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Golem said:

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HuMcK said:

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The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

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Were the folders smoking?

Just a little enlightenment for you…things that are printed on paper today are digital and remain digital somewhere else. This is what accounts for the mass number of burn bags and shredders in particular government facilities, without violating rules regarding retention of those same documents. The documents that are destroyed are not actually destroyed. Only a copy of them is destroyed. What's more, it's no crime to destroy copies of unclassified documents….if the empty folders indicate that even happened.

The walls are STILL not closing in. Your wet dreams are not going to come true. Change your shorts and get back to mopping the floor.

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Rawhide said:

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HuMcK said:

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All of that may be well and good...except that we know they found classified documents outside of that room you call secure. Now we also know that they also found around 50 empty folders (!) with classification markings.

There just is no way to spin this, other than admitting Trump royally fcked up.

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We're still waiting for you admit that Biden has royally ****ed up about anything.

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Rawhide said:

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Golem said:

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HuMcK said:

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The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

---

Were the folders smoking?

Just a little enlightenment for you…things that are printed on paper today are digital and remain digital somewhere else. This is what accounts for the mass number of burn bags and shredders in particular government facilities, without violating rules regarding retention of those same documents. The documents that are destroyed are not actually destroyed. Only a copy of them is destroyed. What's more, it's no crime to destroy copies of unclassified documents….if the empty folders indicate that even happened.

The walls are STILL not closing in. Your wet dreams are not going to come true. Change your shorts and get back to mopping the floor.

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Maybe the gov't can spend another 35 mil for a 3 year investigation into the Trump docs and then only come up empty handed - again.

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Rawhide said:

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Golem said:

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HuMcK said:

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The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

---

Were the folders smoking?

Just a little enlightenment for you…things that are printed on paper today are digital and remain digital somewhere else. This is what accounts for the mass number of burn bags and shredders in particular government facilities, without violating rules regarding retention of those same documents. The documents that are destroyed are not actually destroyed. Only a copy of them is destroyed. What's more, it's no crime to destroy copies of unclassified documents….if the empty folders indicate that even happened.

The walls are STILL not closing in. Your wet dreams are not going to come true. Change your shorts and get back to mopping the floor.

---

Maybe the gov't can spend another 35 mil for a 3 year investigation into the Trump docs and then only come up empty handed - again.

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Osodecentx said:

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Rawhide said:

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Golem said:

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HuMcK said:

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The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

---

Were the folders smoking?

Just a little enlightenment for you…things that are printed on paper today are digital and remain digital somewhere else. This is what accounts for the mass number of burn bags and shredders in particular government facilities, without violating rules regarding retention of those same documents. The documents that are destroyed are not actually destroyed. Only a copy of them is destroyed. What's more, it's no crime to destroy copies of unclassified documents….if the empty folders indicate that even happened.

The walls are STILL not closing in. Your wet dreams are not going to come true. Change your shorts and get back to mopping the floor.

---

Maybe the gov't can spend another 35 mil for a 3 year investigation into the Trump docs and then only come up empty handed - again.

---

There you go. Let's talk about Trump!!
Midterms are coming, Proud Boys need pardons

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RMF5630 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Rawhide said:

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Golem said:

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HuMcK said:

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The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

---

Were the folders smoking?

Just a little enlightenment for you…things that are printed on paper today are digital and remain digital somewhere else. This is what accounts for the mass number of burn bags and shredders in particular government facilities, without violating rules regarding retention of those same documents. The documents that are destroyed are not actually destroyed. Only a copy of them is destroyed. What's more, it's no crime to destroy copies of unclassified documents….if the empty folders indicate that even happened.

The walls are STILL not closing in. Your wet dreams are not going to come true. Change your shorts and get back to mopping the floor.

---

Maybe the gov't can spend another 35 mil for a 3 year investigation into the Trump docs and then only come up empty handed - again.

---

There you go. Let's talk about Trump!!
Midterms are coming, Proud Boys need pardons

---

How many pardons did Trump issue when he was in office to the Jan 6th people or any Proud Boy?

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Osodecentx said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Rawhide said:

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Golem said:

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HuMcK said:

---

The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

---

Were the folders smoking?

Just a little enlightenment for you…things that are printed on paper today are digital and remain digital somewhere else. This is what accounts for the mass number of burn bags and shredders in particular government facilities, without violating rules regarding retention of those same documents. The documents that are destroyed are not actually destroyed. Only a copy of them is destroyed. What's more, it's no crime to destroy copies of unclassified documents….if the empty folders indicate that even happened.

The walls are STILL not closing in. Your wet dreams are not going to come true. Change your shorts and get back to mopping the floor.

---

Maybe the gov't can spend another 35 mil for a 3 year investigation into the Trump docs and then only come up empty handed - again.

---

There you go. Let's talk about Trump!!
Midterms are coming, Proud Boys need pardons

---

How many pardons did Trump issue when he was in office to the Jan 6th people or any Proud Boy?

---

Do you think he should? Midterms are coming. Let's talk about Proud Boy pardons instead of Biden

---

RMF5630 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Rawhide said:

---

Golem said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

---

Were the folders smoking?

Just a little enlightenment for you…things that are printed on paper today are digital and remain digital somewhere else. This is what accounts for the mass number of burn bags and shredders in particular government facilities, without violating rules regarding retention of those same documents. The documents that are destroyed are not actually destroyed. Only a copy of them is destroyed. What's more, it's no crime to destroy copies of unclassified documents….if the empty folders indicate that even happened.

The walls are STILL not closing in. Your wet dreams are not going to come true. Change your shorts and get back to mopping the floor.

---

Maybe the gov't can spend another 35 mil for a 3 year investigation into the Trump docs and then only come up empty handed - again.

---

There you go. Let's talk about Trump!!
Midterms are coming, Proud Boys need pardons

---

How many pardons did Trump issue when he was in office to the Jan 6th people or any Proud Boy?

---

Doc Holliday said:

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Osodecentx said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Rawhide said:

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Golem said:

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HuMcK said:

---

The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

---

Were the folders smoking?

Just a little enlightenment for you…things that are printed on paper today are digital and remain digital somewhere else. This is what accounts for the mass number of burn bags and shredders in particular government facilities, without violating rules regarding retention of those same documents. The documents that are destroyed are not actually destroyed. Only a copy of them is destroyed. What's more, it's no crime to destroy copies of unclassified documents….if the empty folders indicate that even happened.

The walls are STILL not closing in. Your wet dreams are not going to come true. Change your shorts and get back to mopping the floor.

---

Maybe the gov't can spend another 35 mil for a 3 year investigation into the Trump docs and then only come up empty handed - again.

---

There you go. Let's talk about Trump!!
Midterms are coming, Proud Boys need pardons

---

How many pardons did Trump issue when he was in office to the Jan 6th people or any Proud Boy?

---

Do you think he should? Midterms are coming. Let's talk about Proud Boy pardons instead of Biden

---

He didn't give any pardons. In fact, he completely abandoned the J6 crowd and Ashley Babbitt.

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RMF5630 said:

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Golem said:

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HuMcK said:

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Spin it however you want, doesn't make it convincing though.

The reason for using burn bags and establishing chain of custody is so we know something has actually been disposed of, instead of taking someone's word about it. You assume the records were destroyed (based on seemingly nothing at all), but without any verification it's just as likely they weren't. If documents are missing, and destruction cannot be confirmed...you or I would already be in prison for that.

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Chain of custody? In the IC? LOLOLOLOLOL!!! You are confusing intelligence with law enforcement.

Explain how you understand burn bags to be used. You don't seem to understand.

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Confidential information I have always seen has a chain of custody, who signed it out, when it was returned, etc... I have never seen, at least when I was in the military, TS (SCI) just left to whoever wanted it. The S2 knew who had it and where it was. If they didn't they were in trouble, not the Division Commander.

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Osodecentx said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Osodecentx said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Rawhide said:

---

Golem said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

---

Were the folders smoking?

Just a little enlightenment for you…things that are printed on paper today are digital and remain digital somewhere else. This is what accounts for the mass number of burn bags and shredders in particular government facilities, without violating rules regarding retention of those same documents. The documents that are destroyed are not actually destroyed. Only a copy of them is destroyed. What's more, it's no crime to destroy copies of unclassified documents….if the empty folders indicate that even happened.

The walls are STILL not closing in. Your wet dreams are not going to come true. Change your shorts and get back to mopping the floor.

---

Maybe the gov't can spend another 35 mil for a 3 year investigation into the Trump docs and then only come up empty handed - again.

---

There you go. Let's talk about Trump!!
Midterms are coming, Proud Boys need pardons

---

How many pardons did Trump issue when he was in office to the Jan 6th people or any Proud Boy?

---

Do you think he should? Midterms are coming. Let's talk about Proud Boy pardons instead of Biden

---

He didn't give any pardons. In fact, he completely abandoned the J6 crowd and Ashley Babbitt.

---

Why is he talking about pardons and supporting some of them financially?

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xxx yyy said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

RMF5630 said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Golem said:

---

HuMcK said:

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The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

---

Were the folders smoking?

Just a little enlightenment for you…things that are printed on paper today are digital and remain digital somewhere else. This is what accounts for the mass number of burn bags and shredders in particular government facilities, without violating rules regarding retention of those same documents. The documents that are destroyed are not actually destroyed. Only a copy of them is destroyed. What's more, it's no crime to destroy copies of unclassified documents….if the empty folders indicate that even happened.

The walls are STILL not closing in. Your wet dreams are not going to come true. Change your shorts and get back to mopping the floor.

---

Maybe the gov't can spend another 35 mil for a 3 year investigation into the Trump docs and then only come up empty handed - again.

---

There you go. Let's talk about Trump!!
Midterms are coming, Proud Boys need pardons

---

How many pardons did Trump issue when he was in office to the Jan 6th people or any Proud Boy?

---

Do you think he should? Midterms are coming. Let's talk about Proud Boy pardons instead of Biden

---

He didn't give any pardons. In fact, he completely abandoned the J6 crowd and Ashley Babbitt.

---

Why is he talking about pardons and supporting some of them financially?

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Let's be clear, he's using donor or RNC money, not opening up his wallet for them.

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Sam Lowry said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Rawhide said:

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Golem said:

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HuMcK said:

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The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

---

Were the folders smoking?

Just a little enlightenment for you…things that are printed on paper today are digital and remain digital somewhere else. This is what accounts for the mass number of burn bags and shredders in particular government facilities, without violating rules regarding retention of those same documents. The documents that are destroyed are not actually destroyed. Only a copy of them is destroyed. What's more, it's no crime to destroy copies of unclassified documents….if the empty folders indicate that even happened.

The walls are STILL not closing in. Your wet dreams are not going to come true. Change your shorts and get back to mopping the floor.

---

Maybe the gov't can spend another 35 mil for a 3 year investigation into the Trump docs and then only come up empty handed - again.

---

There you go. Let's talk about Trump!!
Midterms are coming, Proud Boys need pardons

---

How many pardons did Trump issue when he was in office to the Jan 6th people or any Proud Boy?

---

Not even Trump is dumb enough to do that when he's facing an impeachment vote. Doesn't mean he won't next time he has a chance.

---

Osodecentx said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Golem said:

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HuMcK said:

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Spin it however you want, doesn't make it convincing though.

The reason for using burn bags and establishing chain of custody is so we know something has actually been disposed of, instead of taking someone's word about it. You assume the records were destroyed (based on seemingly nothing at all), but without any verification it's just as likely they weren't. If documents are missing, and destruction cannot be confirmed...you or I would already be in prison for that.

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Chain of custody? In the IC? LOLOLOLOLOL!!! You are confusing intelligence with law enforcement.

Explain how you understand burn bags to be used. You don't seem to understand.

---

Confidential information I have always seen has a chain of custody, who signed it out, when it was returned, etc... I have never seen, at least when I was in the military, TS (SCI) just left to whoever wanted it. The S2 knew who had it and where it was. If they didn't they were in trouble, not the Division Commander.

---

Barr says there's no legitimate reason for Trump to have taken classified documents

Former attorney general William P. Barr, who served under Donald Trump, said Friday that there is no legitimate reason for the former president to have taken boxes of declassified documents to his Mar-a-Lago home.
In what amounts to his strongest condemnation yet of Trump's actions in the Justice Department's investigation of the classified documents, Barr said he couldn't think "of a legitimate reason why" the documents "could have been take out of the government if they're classified."
"I am frankly skeptical of this claim that [Trump] declassified everything," Barr said. "I think it's highly improbable.

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Golem said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

---

Were the folders smoking?

Just a little enlightenment for you…things that are printed on paper today are digital and remain digital somewhere else. This is what accounts for the mass number of burn bags and shredders in particular government facilities, without violating rules regarding retention of those same documents. The documents that are destroyed are not actually destroyed. Only a copy of them is destroyed. What's more, it's no crime to destroy copies of unclassified documents….if the empty folders indicate that even happened.

The walls are STILL not closing in. Your wet dreams are not going to come true. Change your shorts and get back to mopping the floor.

---

Maybe the gov't can spend another 35 mil for a 3 year investigation into the Trump docs and then only come up empty handed - again.

---

There you go. Let's talk about Trump!!
Midterms are coming, Proud Boys need pardons

---

How many pardons did Trump issue when he was in office to the Jan 6th people or any Proud Boy?

---

Not even Trump is dumb enough to do that when he's facing an impeachment vote. Doesn't mean he won't next time he has a chance.

---

So, what he actually did gets thrown out, but the next time...

The Trump Rule, it doesn't matter what he actually does or says, we know next time....

Geez, I have never seen such venom. Hillary is the closest and she didn't get this treatment!

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Golem said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

---

Were the folders smoking?

Just a little enlightenment for you…things that are printed on paper today are digital and remain digital somewhere else. This is what accounts for the mass number of burn bags and shredders in particular government facilities, without violating rules regarding retention of those same documents. The documents that are destroyed are not actually destroyed. Only a copy of them is destroyed. What's more, it's no crime to destroy copies of unclassified documents….if the empty folders indicate that even happened.

The walls are STILL not closing in. Your wet dreams are not going to come true. Change your shorts and get back to mopping the floor.

---

Maybe the gov't can spend another 35 mil for a 3 year investigation into the Trump docs and then only come up empty handed - again.

---

There you go. Let's talk about Trump!!
Midterms are coming, Proud Boys need pardons

---

How many pardons did Trump issue when he was in office to the Jan 6th people or any Proud Boy?

---

Not even Trump is dumb enough to do that when he's facing an impeachment vote. Doesn't mean he won't next time he has a chance.

---

So, what he actually did gets thrown out, but the next time...

The Trump Rule, it doesn't matter what he actually does or says, we know next time....

Geez, I have never seen such venom. Hillary is the closest and she didn't get this treatment!

---

It's not like I just made it up. It's what he's been talking about doing.

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Golem said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

---

Were the folders smoking?

Just a little enlightenment for you…things that are printed on paper today are digital and remain digital somewhere else. This is what accounts for the mass number of burn bags and shredders in particular government facilities, without violating rules regarding retention of those same documents. The documents that are destroyed are not actually destroyed. Only a copy of them is destroyed. What's more, it's no crime to destroy copies of unclassified documents….if the empty folders indicate that even happened.

The walls are STILL not closing in. Your wet dreams are not going to come true. Change your shorts and get back to mopping the floor.

---

Maybe the gov't can spend another 35 mil for a 3 year investigation into the Trump docs and then only come up empty handed - again.

---

There you go. Let's talk about Trump!!
Midterms are coming, Proud Boys need pardons

---

How many pardons did Trump issue when he was in office to the Jan 6th people or any Proud Boy?

---

Not even Trump is dumb enough to do that when he's facing an impeachment vote. Doesn't mean he won't next time he has a chance.

---

So, what he actually did gets thrown out, but the next time...

The Trump Rule, it doesn't matter what he actually does or says, we know next time....

Geez, I have never seen such venom. Hillary is the closest and she didn't get this treatment!

---

It's not like I just made it up. It's what he's been talking about doing.

---

Yeah and Biden's border is secure. Just listen to a press conference. You guys get so worked up over rhetoric.

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Golem said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

---

Were the folders smoking?

Just a little enlightenment for you…things that are printed on paper today are digital and remain digital somewhere else. This is what accounts for the mass number of burn bags and shredders in particular government facilities, without violating rules regarding retention of those same documents. The documents that are destroyed are not actually destroyed. Only a copy of them is destroyed. What's more, it's no crime to destroy copies of unclassified documents….if the empty folders indicate that even happened.

The walls are STILL not closing in. Your wet dreams are not going to come true. Change your shorts and get back to mopping the floor.

---

Maybe the gov't can spend another 35 mil for a 3 year investigation into the Trump docs and then only come up empty handed - again.

---

There you go. Let's talk about Trump!!
Midterms are coming, Proud Boys need pardons

---

How many pardons did Trump issue when he was in office to the Jan 6th people or any Proud Boy?

---

Not even Trump is dumb enough to do that when he's facing an impeachment vote. Doesn't mean he won't next time he has a chance.

---

So, what he actually did gets thrown out, but the next time...

The Trump Rule, it doesn't matter what he actually does or says, we know next time....

Geez, I have never seen such venom. Hillary is the closest and she didn't get this treatment!

---

It's not like I just made it up. It's what he's been talking about doing.

---

Yeah and Biden's border is secure. Just listen to a press conference. You guys get so worked up over rhetoric.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Golem said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

---

Were the folders smoking?

Just a little enlightenment for you…things that are printed on paper today are digital and remain digital somewhere else. This is what accounts for the mass number of burn bags and shredders in particular government facilities, without violating rules regarding retention of those same documents. The documents that are destroyed are not actually destroyed. Only a copy of them is destroyed. What's more, it's no crime to destroy copies of unclassified documents….if the empty folders indicate that even happened.

The walls are STILL not closing in. Your wet dreams are not going to come true. Change your shorts and get back to mopping the floor.

---

Maybe the gov't can spend another 35 mil for a 3 year investigation into the Trump docs and then only come up empty handed - again.

---

There you go. Let's talk about Trump!!
Midterms are coming, Proud Boys need pardons

---

How many pardons did Trump issue when he was in office to the Jan 6th people or any Proud Boy?

---

Not even Trump is dumb enough to do that when he's facing an impeachment vote. Doesn't mean he won't next time he has a chance.

---

So, what he actually did gets thrown out, but the next time...

The Trump Rule, it doesn't matter what he actually does or says, we know next time....

Geez, I have never seen such venom. Hillary is the closest and she didn't get this treatment!

---

It's not like I just made it up. It's what he's been talking about doing.

---

Yeah and Biden's border is secure. Just listen to a press conference. You guys get so worked up over rhetoric.

---

It's not like it's out of character, either. If Biden says the border is secure and Trump says he'll pardon J6ers, which one passes the smell test? I don't think that's a close call.

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Golem said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

---

Were the folders smoking?

Just a little enlightenment for you…things that are printed on paper today are digital and remain digital somewhere else. This is what accounts for the mass number of burn bags and shredders in particular government facilities, without violating rules regarding retention of those same documents. The documents that are destroyed are not actually destroyed. Only a copy of them is destroyed. What's more, it's no crime to destroy copies of unclassified documents….if the empty folders indicate that even happened.

The walls are STILL not closing in. Your wet dreams are not going to come true. Change your shorts and get back to mopping the floor.

---

Maybe the gov't can spend another 35 mil for a 3 year investigation into the Trump docs and then only come up empty handed - again.

---

There you go. Let's talk about Trump!!
Midterms are coming, Proud Boys need pardons

---

How many pardons did Trump issue when he was in office to the Jan 6th people or any Proud Boy?

---

Not even Trump is dumb enough to do that when he's facing an impeachment vote. Doesn't mean he won't next time he has a chance.

---

So, what he actually did gets thrown out, but the next time...

The Trump Rule, it doesn't matter what he actually does or says, we know next time....

Geez, I have never seen such venom. Hillary is the closest and she didn't get this treatment!

---

It's not like I just made it up. It's what he's been talking about doing.

---

Yeah and Biden's border is secure. Just listen to a press conference. You guys get so worked up over rhetoric.

---

It's not like it's out of character, either. If Biden says the border is secure and Trump says he'll pardon J6ers, which one passes the smell test? I don't think that's a close call.

---

I have said repeatedly, if he is indicted and found guilty I will be the first to say he is guilty and should never hold office again. No problem

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam and Oso have completely bought into the Hate.

They are too far down the road to hell for them to consider a course correction.

---

Canada2017 said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Golem said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

---

Were the folders smoking?

Just a little enlightenment for you…things that are printed on paper today are digital and remain digital somewhere else. This is what accounts for the mass number of burn bags and shredders in particular government facilities, without violating rules regarding retention of those same documents. The documents that are destroyed are not actually destroyed. Only a copy of them is destroyed. What's more, it's no crime to destroy copies of unclassified documents….if the empty folders indicate that even happened.

The walls are STILL not closing in. Your wet dreams are not going to come true. Change your shorts and get back to mopping the floor.

---

Maybe the gov't can spend another 35 mil for a 3 year investigation into the Trump docs and then only come up empty handed - again.

---

There you go. Let's talk about Trump!!
Midterms are coming, Proud Boys need pardons

---

How many pardons did Trump issue when he was in office to the Jan 6th people or any Proud Boy?

---

Not even Trump is dumb enough to do that when he's facing an impeachment vote. Doesn't mean he won't next time he has a chance.

---

So, what he actually did gets thrown out, but the next time...

The Trump Rule, it doesn't matter what he actually does or says, we know next time....

Geez, I have never seen such venom. Hillary is the closest and she didn't get this treatment!

---

It's not like I just made it up. It's what he's been talking about doing.

---

Yeah and Biden's border is secure. Just listen to a press conference. You guys get so worked up over rhetoric.

---

It's not like it's out of character, either. If Biden says the border is secure and Trump says he'll pardon J6ers, which one passes the smell test? I don't think that's a close call.

---

I have said repeatedly, if he is indicted and found guilty I will be the first to say he is guilty and should never hold office again. No problem

---

Good grief, I don't want Donald Trump anywhere near the White House ever again........ period .

But if this ex president ( or any other ex president ) is found 'guilty' due to such an obvious piece of selective prosecution by his political opponents ....I hope there are very severe repercussions.

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Golem said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

The more detailed inventory just filed and released notes that 48 empty folders marked classified were found, along with 23 empty folders marked "return to staff secretary/military aide". These are presumably not cover folders for the other classified docs found, as those had their own cover sheets attached.

---

Were the folders smoking?

Just a little enlightenment for you…things that are printed on paper today are digital and remain digital somewhere else. This is what accounts for the mass number of burn bags and shredders in particular government facilities, without violating rules regarding retention of those same documents. The documents that are destroyed are not actually destroyed. Only a copy of them is destroyed. What's more, it's no crime to destroy copies of unclassified documents….if the empty folders indicate that even happened.

The walls are STILL not closing in. Your wet dreams are not going to come true. Change your shorts and get back to mopping the floor.

---

Maybe the gov't can spend another 35 mil for a 3 year investigation into the Trump docs and then only come up empty handed - again.

---

There you go. Let's talk about Trump!!
Midterms are coming, Proud Boys need pardons

---

How many pardons did Trump issue when he was in office to the Jan 6th people or any Proud Boy?

---

Not even Trump is dumb enough to do that when he's facing an impeachment vote. Doesn't mean he won't next time he has a chance.

---

So, what he actually did gets thrown out, but the next time...

The Trump Rule, it doesn't matter what he actually does or says, we know next time....

Geez, I have never seen such venom. Hillary is the closest and she didn't get this treatment!

---

It's not like I just made it up. It's what he's been talking about doing.

---

Yeah and Biden's border is secure. Just listen to a press conference. You guys get so worked up over rhetoric.

---

It's not like it's out of character, either. If Biden says the border is secure and Trump says he'll pardon J6ers, which one passes the smell test? I don't think that's a close call.

---

Really???? You do realize I was being sarcastic.

I would say it is a toss up! Biden is as likely to secure the border as Trump is to pardon anyone from Jan 6th, not.

Ok, we have been doing this for almost a year. When will an indictment come?? You keep acting like you are the calm, knowledgeable person on this, yet nothing. Liz is done, nothing. FBI nothing. Garland is now saying after the elections, we are talking 2 full years of media and Sam talk on how bad this is for Trump and it is a slam dunk. You and your cronies have talked down to those that think this is 100% to kill Trump as a candidate. Yet, nothing.

I have said repeatedly, if he is indicted and found guilty I will be the first to say he is guilty and should never hold office again. No problem

At what point will you admit this is all election based candidate killing? Will we still be here in 2024 hearing from you and others how bad Trump is if there is no trial?????

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam and Oso have completely bought into the Hate.

They are too far down the road to hell for them to consider a course correction.

---

"You should post less on this subject until you can better control your emotions."

---