https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
FBI raids Trump's home
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Last: 3 yr ago by Harrison Bergeron
again - his banks / lenders were big banks w/ many very bright experienced analysts - they get these 'puffed upped' statements all the time.
nothing out of the ordinary there.
they can come to the right valuation / financial conclusion.
- KKM
nothing out of the ordinary there.
they can come to the right valuation / financial conclusion.
- KKM
arbyscoin - the only crypto you can eat.
Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be. Gonna be interesting arguing highest and best use for developments. She is saying the zoning doesn't allow a use used in an valuation, in Florida of all places.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
Land Use and zoning change all the time, especially in Florida. Funny thing is that Cities and Counties change Land Use and Zoning, sometimes earlier on the same agenda before a development is approved. Just don't see how they are going to not only prove the valuation is wrong, but that it was fraudulently done. Who was de-frauded?
Our *pfowl *pfriend is no anti-Trumpist-ist. He is *pfully indoctrinated in the Way of the Orange.RMF5630 said:You are letting your desire to catch Trump doing something illegal that is proveable. This is not that type of case, fraud is tough to prove. Valuation is an art, as much as a technical exercise. If he stayed with the professional valuations, he is fine. The other side is if the banks even used his valuations or did their own. If I were the AG, I would look into the preservation easements for tax impacts.william said:not exactly. this is RE - not some Future Tech with a 25 year model to work thru.RMF5630 said:william said:not really - DCF. any supposed 'Trump Premia' will need to be proven.RMF5630 said:william said:not exactly - these were businesses. not empty plots of land. the valuations were for the business entities.4th and Inches said:lol at incorrect real estate valueations.. only value real estate has is the price a seller is willing to sell at and the value the buyer is willing to buy at and that changes daily!Harrison Bergeron said:
Bigger THREAT TO DEMOCRACY - overdue library books or incorrect real estate valuations?
sounds like voodoo economics.
BUT these banks employ MBAs from the top schools - they - the few that actually lent to Orange & Co. - knew what they were getting into.
- KKM
{ sipping coffee }
{ eating donut }
Valuations highly subjective. Gonna be hard to prove. Appraiser is the person on the hot seat, that is why they insurance and expert witnesses.
Gonna turn into a difference of professional opinion.
I think Orange's habit of pulling crap from his large ass will be his down fall this time.
- KKM
Now he'll really be wearing Orange.
At the time of the valuation. Not now. Also, it is not Trumps premium, it is the markets as determined by the appraiser at the time of the valuation. Gonna be tough to prove fraud.
Rooms * Rate = NOI.
- KKM
Reasonably bright 9th grader (does not include Orange) could do the math.
Lots of competitors to gauge any Market Premium. Not some new Tech.
- KKM
Unless they have him on tape telling them to commit fraud for his personal profit, you will have a tough time proving it. You are going to have two sets of expert witnesses talking methodology and assumptions, all subjective and different industry standards. You will have Duetsche Bank saying that the valuations not used and were consistent with the risk based on market conditions as they valued them. Tough road to hoe.
*Psad!
Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
only bothers them when its against their team- Sam and/or OsoRMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
Well saidRMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Valuation is subjective, especially if only used internally. If there is no tax liability, which overvaluation stating the assets appreciated would mean higher taxes. As i said before, the easement tax breaks is tricky and could have a discrepancy. Even so, they would typically pay a fine and the difference. Proving criminal fraud?Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
I'm not worried about the mid-terms.Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
The neverTrumpers are, though...
Sam's descent into Madness continues, I see.Sam Lowry said:Our *pfowl *pfriend is no anti-Trumpist-ist. He is *pfully indoctrinated in the Way of the Orange.RMF5630 said:You are letting your desire to catch Trump doing something illegal that is proveable. This is not that type of case, fraud is tough to prove. Valuation is an art, as much as a technical exercise. If he stayed with the professional valuations, he is fine. The other side is if the banks even used his valuations or did their own. If I were the AG, I would look into the preservation easements for tax impacts.william said:not exactly. this is RE - not some Future Tech with a 25 year model to work thru.RMF5630 said:william said:not really - DCF. any supposed 'Trump Premia' will need to be proven.RMF5630 said:william said:not exactly - these were businesses. not empty plots of land. the valuations were for the business entities.4th and Inches said:lol at incorrect real estate valueations.. only value real estate has is the price a seller is willing to sell at and the value the buyer is willing to buy at and that changes daily!Harrison Bergeron said:
Bigger THREAT TO DEMOCRACY - overdue library books or incorrect real estate valuations?
sounds like voodoo economics.
BUT these banks employ MBAs from the top schools - they - the few that actually lent to Orange & Co. - knew what they were getting into.
- KKM
{ sipping coffee }
{ eating donut }
Valuations highly subjective. Gonna be hard to prove. Appraiser is the person on the hot seat, that is why they insurance and expert witnesses.
Gonna turn into a difference of professional opinion.
I think Orange's habit of pulling crap from his large ass will be his down fall this time.
- KKM
Now he'll really be wearing Orange.
At the time of the valuation. Not now. Also, it is not Trumps premium, it is the markets as determined by the appraiser at the time of the valuation. Gonna be tough to prove fraud.
Rooms * Rate = NOI.
- KKM
Reasonably bright 9th grader (does not include Orange) could do the math.
Lots of competitors to gauge any Market Premium. Not some new Tech.
- KKM
Unless they have him on tape telling them to commit fraud for his personal profit, you will have a tough time proving it. You are going to have two sets of expert witnesses talking methodology and assumptions, all subjective and different industry standards. You will have Duetsche Bank saying that the valuations not used and were consistent with the risk based on market conditions as they valued them. Tough road to hoe.
*Psad!
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
I have no idea what he is saying...Oldbear83 said:Sam's descent into Madness continues, I see.Sam Lowry said:Our *pfowl *pfriend is no anti-Trumpist-ist. He is *pfully indoctrinated in the Way of the Orange.RMF5630 said:You are letting your desire to catch Trump doing something illegal that is proveable. This is not that type of case, fraud is tough to prove. Valuation is an art, as much as a technical exercise. If he stayed with the professional valuations, he is fine. The other side is if the banks even used his valuations or did their own. If I were the AG, I would look into the preservation easements for tax impacts.william said:not exactly. this is RE - not some Future Tech with a 25 year model to work thru.RMF5630 said:william said:not really - DCF. any supposed 'Trump Premia' will need to be proven.RMF5630 said:william said:not exactly - these were businesses. not empty plots of land. the valuations were for the business entities.4th and Inches said:lol at incorrect real estate valueations.. only value real estate has is the price a seller is willing to sell at and the value the buyer is willing to buy at and that changes daily!Harrison Bergeron said:
Bigger THREAT TO DEMOCRACY - overdue library books or incorrect real estate valuations?
sounds like voodoo economics.
BUT these banks employ MBAs from the top schools - they - the few that actually lent to Orange & Co. - knew what they were getting into.
- KKM
{ sipping coffee }
{ eating donut }
Valuations highly subjective. Gonna be hard to prove. Appraiser is the person on the hot seat, that is why they insurance and expert witnesses.
Gonna turn into a difference of professional opinion.
I think Orange's habit of pulling crap from his large ass will be his down fall this time.
- KKM
Now he'll really be wearing Orange.
At the time of the valuation. Not now. Also, it is not Trumps premium, it is the markets as determined by the appraiser at the time of the valuation. Gonna be tough to prove fraud.
Rooms * Rate = NOI.
- KKM
Reasonably bright 9th grader (does not include Orange) could do the math.
Lots of competitors to gauge any Market Premium. Not some new Tech.
- KKM
Unless they have him on tape telling them to commit fraud for his personal profit, you will have a tough time proving it. You are going to have two sets of expert witnesses talking methodology and assumptions, all subjective and different industry standards. You will have Duetsche Bank saying that the valuations not used and were consistent with the risk based on market conditions as they valued them. Tough road to hoe.
*Psad!
TDS does that to people.RMF5630 said:I have no idea what he is saying...Oldbear83 said:Sam's descent into Madness continues, I see.Sam Lowry said:Our *pfowl *pfriend is no anti-Trumpist-ist. He is *pfully indoctrinated in the Way of the Orange.RMF5630 said:You are letting your desire to catch Trump doing something illegal that is proveable. This is not that type of case, fraud is tough to prove. Valuation is an art, as much as a technical exercise. If he stayed with the professional valuations, he is fine. The other side is if the banks even used his valuations or did their own. If I were the AG, I would look into the preservation easements for tax impacts.william said:not exactly. this is RE - not some Future Tech with a 25 year model to work thru.RMF5630 said:william said:not really - DCF. any supposed 'Trump Premia' will need to be proven.RMF5630 said:william said:
not exactly - these were businesses. not empty plots of land. the valuations were for the business entities.
sounds like voodoo economics.
BUT these banks employ MBAs from the top schools - they - the few that actually lent to Orange & Co. - knew what they were getting into.
- KKM
{ sipping coffee }
{ eating donut }
Valuations highly subjective. Gonna be hard to prove. Appraiser is the person on the hot seat, that is why they insurance and expert witnesses.
Gonna turn into a difference of professional opinion.
I think Orange's habit of pulling crap from his large ass will be his down fall this time.
- KKM
Now he'll really be wearing Orange.
At the time of the valuation. Not now. Also, it is not Trumps premium, it is the markets as determined by the appraiser at the time of the valuation. Gonna be tough to prove fraud.
Rooms * Rate = NOI.
- KKM
Reasonably bright 9th grader (does not include Orange) could do the math.
Lots of competitors to gauge any Market Premium. Not some new Tech.
- KKM
Unless they have him on tape telling them to commit fraud for his personal profit, you will have a tough time proving it. You are going to have two sets of expert witnesses talking methodology and assumptions, all subjective and different industry standards. You will have Duetsche Bank saying that the valuations not used and were consistent with the risk based on market conditions as they valued them. Tough road to hoe.
*Psad!
What's wrong with teledeclassification?quash said:
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/3655062-trump-claims-presidents-can-declassify-documents-even-by-thinking-about-it/amp/#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16638403860826&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com
I've been thinking about winning a trial next Monday. Guess I don't have to show up.
Did the banks use their own valuations?RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
never met a bank that didnt do a valuation. They as the lender can use any valuation they want but its a safe bet that somebody did one on behalf of the bank.Osodecentx said:Did the banks use their own valuations?RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
I've met a bank that didn't do a thorough valuation.4th and Inches said:never met a bank that didnt do a valuation. They as the lender can use any valuation they want but its a safe bet that somebody did one on behalf of the bank.Osodecentx said:Did the banks use their own valuations?RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
thats on the bank and their protocols/due diligence, not the client.Osodecentx said:I've met a bank that didn't do a thorough valuation.4th and Inches said:never met a bank that didnt do a valuation. They as the lender can use any valuation they want but its a safe bet that somebody did one on behalf of the bank.Osodecentx said:Did the banks use their own valuations?RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
Met plenty of banks who say no.
Client doesn't get to lie (unless it's Trump?).4th and Inches said:thats on the bank and their protocols/due diligence, not the client.Osodecentx said:I've met a bank that didn't do a thorough valuation.4th and Inches said:never met a bank that didnt do a valuation. They as the lender can use any valuation they want but its a safe bet that somebody did one on behalf of the bank.Osodecentx said:Did the banks use their own valuations?RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
Met plenty of banks who say no.
You don't get to assume the client is lying ... even though you hate TrumpOsodecentx said:Client doesn't get to lie (unless it's Trump?).4th and Inches said:thats on the bank and their protocols/due diligence, not the client.Osodecentx said:I've met a bank that didn't do a thorough valuation.4th and Inches said:never met a bank that didnt do a valuation. They as the lender can use any valuation they want but its a safe bet that somebody did one on behalf of the bank.Osodecentx said:Did the banks use their own valuations?RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
Met plenty of banks who say no.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
your TDS is showingOsodecentx said:Client doesn't get to lie (unless it's Trump?).4th and Inches said:thats on the bank and their protocols/due diligence, not the client.Osodecentx said:I've met a bank that didn't do a thorough valuation.4th and Inches said:never met a bank that didnt do a valuation. They as the lender can use any valuation they want but its a safe bet that somebody did one on behalf of the bank.Osodecentx said:Did the banks use their own valuations?RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
Met plenty of banks who say no.
4th and Inches said:your TDS is showingOsodecentx said:Client doesn't get to lie (unless it's Trump?).4th and Inches said:thats on the bank and their protocols/due diligence, not the client.Osodecentx said:I've met a bank that didn't do a thorough valuation.4th and Inches said:never met a bank that didnt do a valuation. They as the lender can use any valuation they want but its a safe bet that somebody did one on behalf of the bank.Osodecentx said:Did the banks use their own valuations?RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
Met plenty of banks who say no.
I actually have had bank management experience.
Your Trump Adoration Syndrome is showing
Pfft. My wife also has bank experience, and I have done audits.Osodecentx said:4th and Inches said:your TDS is showingOsodecentx said:Client doesn't get to lie (unless it's Trump?).4th and Inches said:thats on the bank and their protocols/due diligence, not the client.Osodecentx said:I've met a bank that didn't do a thorough valuation.4th and Inches said:never met a bank that didnt do a valuation. They as the lender can use any valuation they want but its a safe bet that somebody did one on behalf of the bank.Osodecentx said:Did the banks use their own valuations?RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
Met plenty of banks who say no.
I actually have had bank management experience.
Your Trump Adoration Syndrome is showing
Neither your experience nor hers is relevant to whether this case has any merit to it. Considering the person who started the chase, I'd say 'highly unlikely', but it's good noise for the media, which is the point.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
like col. kurtz.Oldbear83 said:Sam's descent into Madness continues, I see.Sam Lowry said:Our *pfowl *pfriend is no anti-Trumpist-ist. He is *pfully indoctrinated in the Way of the Orange.RMF5630 said:You are letting your desire to catch Trump doing something illegal that is proveable. This is not that type of case, fraud is tough to prove. Valuation is an art, as much as a technical exercise. If he stayed with the professional valuations, he is fine. The other side is if the banks even used his valuations or did their own. If I were the AG, I would look into the preservation easements for tax impacts.william said:not exactly. this is RE - not some Future Tech with a 25 year model to work thru.RMF5630 said:william said:not really - DCF. any supposed 'Trump Premia' will need to be proven.RMF5630 said:william said:not exactly - these were businesses. not empty plots of land. the valuations were for the business entities.4th and Inches said:lol at incorrect real estate valueations.. only value real estate has is the price a seller is willing to sell at and the value the buyer is willing to buy at and that changes daily!Harrison Bergeron said:
Bigger THREAT TO DEMOCRACY - overdue library books or incorrect real estate valuations?
sounds like voodoo economics.
BUT these banks employ MBAs from the top schools - they - the few that actually lent to Orange & Co. - knew what they were getting into.
- KKM
{ sipping coffee }
{ eating donut }
Valuations highly subjective. Gonna be hard to prove. Appraiser is the person on the hot seat, that is why they insurance and expert witnesses.
Gonna turn into a difference of professional opinion.
I think Orange's habit of pulling crap from his large ass will be his down fall this time.
- KKM
Now he'll really be wearing Orange.
At the time of the valuation. Not now. Also, it is not Trumps premium, it is the markets as determined by the appraiser at the time of the valuation. Gonna be tough to prove fraud.
Rooms * Rate = NOI.
- KKM
Reasonably bright 9th grader (does not include Orange) could do the math.
Lots of competitors to gauge any Market Premium. Not some new Tech.
- KKM
Unless they have him on tape telling them to commit fraud for his personal profit, you will have a tough time proving it. You are going to have two sets of expert witnesses talking methodology and assumptions, all subjective and different industry standards. You will have Duetsche Bank saying that the valuations not used and were consistent with the risk based on market conditions as they valued them. Tough road to hoe.
*Psad!
- kkm
{ sipping coffee }
{ eating donut }
--
most of it is from sam's catholicnessity* - serving as our advocatus diaboli on all issues.
keeping the 'radicals' in line as much as he can.
very noble of the man.
* made up word.
arbyscoin - the only crypto you can eat.
nobody said Trump could lie but you.. your TDS is still showingOsodecentx said:4th and Inches said:your TDS is showingOsodecentx said:Client doesn't get to lie (unless it's Trump?).4th and Inches said:thats on the bank and their protocols/due diligence, not the client.Osodecentx said:I've met a bank that didn't do a thorough valuation.4th and Inches said:never met a bank that didnt do a valuation. They as the lender can use any valuation they want but its a safe bet that somebody did one on behalf of the bank.Osodecentx said:Did the banks use their own valuations?RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
Met plenty of banks who say no.
I actually have had bank management experience.
Your Trump Adoration Syndrome is showing
I own millions in real estate. I have bank and real estate valuation experience.
The whole debate about lender valuations and losses is irrelevant. Reasonable reliance isn't an element of the criminal offense, and the state isn't asking for compensatory damages in the civil suit. They're asking for disgorgement, among other things. Trump can argue all day that the banks should have known better, and it won't make a bit of difference.RMF5630 said:Valuation is subjective, especially if only used internally. If there is no tax liability, which overvaluation stating the assets appreciated would mean higher taxes. As i said before, the easement tax breaks is tricky and could have a discrepancy. Even so, they would typically pay a fine and the difference. Proving criminal fraud?Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
and at this point it's plowing the oceans, arguing about historical value of properties not sold. Highly subjective the further back in time one goes. Unless...... We're talking about significant, obvious over-valuations.Sam Lowry said:The whole debate about lender valuations and losses is irrelevant. Reasonable reliance isn't an element of the criminal offense, and the state isn't asking for compensatory damages in the civil suit. They're asking for disgorgement, among other things. Trump can argue all day that the banks should have known better, and it won't make a bit of difference.RMF5630 said:Valuation is subjective, especially if only used internally. If there is no tax liability, which overvaluation stating the assets appreciated would mean higher taxes. As i said before, the easement tax breaks is tricky and could have a discrepancy. Even so, they would typically pay a fine and the difference. Proving criminal fraud?Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
If the essence of the case is over-valuations of 10-15% points on a few properties....... then the whole thing is lawfare, which is a reasonable default assessment given the way Trump has been treated. In that context, the obvious premise would be that the allegations have been made just to justify moving into disclosure as a new form of investigation.
and....check polling in the NY AG race. This thing could come to a very early conclusion just like the criminal allegations did.
Osodecentx said:I've met a bank that didn't do a thorough valuation.4th and Inches said:never met a bank that didnt do a valuation. They as the lender can use any valuation they want but its a safe bet that somebody did one on behalf of the bank.Osodecentx said:Did the banks use their own valuations?RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
A German bank? Ever work with a German Company? They don't take a crap, without a procedure in place and 3 lawyers. Dueche Bank just went with it?? Yeah.
Sam Lowry said:The whole debate about lender valuations and losses is irrelevant. Reasonable reliance isn't an element of the criminal offense, and the state isn't asking for compensatory damages in the civil suit. They're asking for disgorgement, among other things. Trump can argue all day that the banks should have known better, and it won't make a bit of difference.RMF5630 said:Valuation is subjective, especially if only used internally. If there is no tax liability, which overvaluation stating the assets appreciated would mean higher taxes. As i said before, the easement tax breaks is tricky and could have a discrepancy. Even so, they would typically pay a fine and the difference. Proving criminal fraud?Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
There is no injury. Nobody is harmed here. There is no tax liability mentioned, the valuations in bank loans have no relevance, there is no default, not a publically traded company, assets are still in place, and the internal books have explanations of there valuations.
This is a disagreement over there internal valuation of property and future use. May be able to prove stupidity, which is nor illegal, but definitely not fraud.
first question: has anyone compared the values on the balance sheet presented to the bank with the values on the corporate tax returns?RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:The whole debate about lender valuations and losses is irrelevant. Reasonable reliance isn't an element of the criminal offense, and the state isn't asking for compensatory damages in the civil suit. They're asking for disgorgement, among other things. Trump can argue all day that the banks should have known better, and it won't make a bit of difference.RMF5630 said:Valuation is subjective, especially if only used internally. If there is no tax liability, which overvaluation stating the assets appreciated would mean higher taxes. As i said before, the easement tax breaks is tricky and could have a discrepancy. Even so, they would typically pay a fine and the difference. Proving criminal fraud?Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
There is no injury. Nobody is harmed here. There is no tax liability mentioned, the valuations in bank loans have no relevance, there is no default, not a publically traded company, assets are still in place, and the internal books have explanations of there valuations.
This is a disagreement over there internal valuation of property and future use. May be able to prove stupidity, which is nor illegal, but definitely not fraud.
Ya think if there was a problem there it wouldn't have been the lede in the story?
whiterock said:first question: has anyone compared the values on the balance sheet presented to the bank with the values on the corporate tax returns?RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:The whole debate about lender valuations and losses is irrelevant. Reasonable reliance isn't an element of the criminal offense, and the state isn't asking for compensatory damages in the civil suit. They're asking for disgorgement, among other things. Trump can argue all day that the banks should have known better, and it won't make a bit of difference.RMF5630 said:Valuation is subjective, especially if only used internally. If there is no tax liability, which overvaluation stating the assets appreciated would mean higher taxes. As i said before, the easement tax breaks is tricky and could have a discrepancy. Even so, they would typically pay a fine and the difference. Proving criminal fraud?Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
There is no injury. Nobody is harmed here. There is no tax liability mentioned, the valuations in bank loans have no relevance, there is no default, not a publically traded company, assets are still in place, and the internal books have explanations of there valuations.
This is a disagreement over there internal valuation of property and future use. May be able to prove stupidity, which is nor illegal, but definitely not fraud.
Ya think if there was a problem there it wouldn't have been the lede in the story?
Yup. Looks to me like NY AG is going after Trump for common business practices in NY. Gray area stuff. She may even feel strongly about it, but this looks like another attempt to get Trump on something. Even if she is right, what a fine is typical resolution? Jail time? For procedural stuff by a Corp with no damages or material gain?
Ban from doing business in NY? Seems a bit over the top.
keep it up and she wont be AG after November..RMF5630 said:whiterock said:first question: has anyone compared the values on the balance sheet presented to the bank with the values on the corporate tax returns?RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:The whole debate about lender valuations and losses is irrelevant. Reasonable reliance isn't an element of the criminal offense, and the state isn't asking for compensatory damages in the civil suit. They're asking for disgorgement, among other things. Trump can argue all day that the banks should have known better, and it won't make a bit of difference.RMF5630 said:Valuation is subjective, especially if only used internally. If there is no tax liability, which overvaluation stating the assets appreciated would mean higher taxes. As i said before, the easement tax breaks is tricky and could have a discrepancy. Even so, they would typically pay a fine and the difference. Proving criminal fraud?Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
There is no injury. Nobody is harmed here. There is no tax liability mentioned, the valuations in bank loans have no relevance, there is no default, not a publically traded company, assets are still in place, and the internal books have explanations of there valuations.
This is a disagreement over there internal valuation of property and future use. May be able to prove stupidity, which is nor illegal, but definitely not fraud.
Ya think if there was a problem there it wouldn't have been the lede in the story?
Yup. Looks to me like NY AG is going after Trump for common business practices in NY. Gray area stuff. She may even feel strongly about it, but this looks like another attempt to get Trump on something. Even if she is right, what a fine is typical resolution? Jail time? For procedural stuff by a Corp with no damages or material gain?
Ban from doing business in NY? Seems a bit over the top.
She is a point down in at least 1 poll
Sigh.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:The whole debate about lender valuations and losses is irrelevant. Reasonable reliance isn't an element of the criminal offense, and the state isn't asking for compensatory damages in the civil suit. They're asking for disgorgement, among other things. Trump can argue all day that the banks should have known better, and it won't make a bit of difference.RMF5630 said:Valuation is subjective, especially if only used internally. If there is no tax liability, which overvaluation stating the assets appreciated would mean higher taxes. As i said before, the easement tax breaks is tricky and could have a discrepancy. Even so, they would typically pay a fine and the difference. Proving criminal fraud?Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
There is no injury. Nobody is harmed here. There is no tax liability mentioned, the valuations in bank loans have no relevance, there is no default, not a publically traded company, assets are still in place, and the internal books have explanations of there valuations.
This is a disagreement over there internal valuation of property and future use. May be able to prove stupidity, which is nor illegal, but definitely not fraud.
Waco bankRMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:I've met a bank that didn't do a thorough valuation.4th and Inches said:never met a bank that didnt do a valuation. They as the lender can use any valuation they want but its a safe bet that somebody did one on behalf of the bank.Osodecentx said:Did the banks use their own valuations?RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:I'm not cheering. I'm telling you that fraud isn't about differences of opinion. It's about misrepresentations of fact. It's not all subjective.RMF5630 said:Sam Lowry said:Is that really what you got from the article? He is in a heap of trouble if that's his best defense.RMF5630 said:Yes, when they valued the properties they were valued at higher than the AG believes they should be.Sam Lowry said:https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/09/21/trump-properties-named-in-new-york-fraud-lawsuit-.htmlRMF5630 said:Come on Sam, don't be coy, enlighten us!Sam Lowry said:
There are some charming stories being crafted here, but y'all might want to actually look at NY's claims before getting too far ahead of yourselves.
I got that even Forbes and Bloomberg are saying this is a tough thing to prove. Fraud is very difficult to prove on valuations.
By the way, Sam. They will get him on something. If the Feds, want to get you, they will. Geez, with Trump there are enough fishing lines out,, they will find something. If all else fails,, National. Security will Trump every thing. Good old, Espionage Act of 1917.
Funny though, for all your comments about how weak his defenses are, he hasn't been charged. Even in NY has been In a perpetual state of discovery. Just media stuff and preliminary stuff to get permission to keep going deeper.
We are watching a witch hunt by the Feds, fueled by politics, and you guys are cheering. The , DA, Feds and DOJ actions, none of it bothers you?
Trump has already filed a lawsuit arguing that this investigation is a witch hunt and trying to stop it. Having seen the evidence, the judge ruled otherwise. Michael Cohen's testimony alone all but ensured this would happen.
What we're watching is the system at work. It's never perfect, but to call it corrupt I'd need to see real evidence. The fact that it's an even-numbered year and a lot of you are worried about midterms isn't all that persuasive.
If the Banks say they did their own valuations on the loans, was done by Regulatory standards, and it was within their risk tolerance there is no injury.
A German bank? Ever work with a German Company? They don't take a crap, without a procedure in place and 3 lawyers. Dueche Bank just went with it?? Yeah.