Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

Two part question, two part answer:

1. Yes, voting for today's Democrat party means voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity. This should be self-evident to any believer, as pointed out above.

2. Yes. As pointed out above, when a heart change is not accompanied by a behavioral change (faith that leads to fruit/works), that is a sign that one may not be Christian. It could also mean that one is saved, but has erred in their beliefs, or is immature in their faith. There are several possibilities.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Great thread.
Who needs Jesus when there are people here that think they know everything and have no problem passing judgement as if they are on a throne.

---

we call them Pious where I come from.

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

Two part question, two part answer:

1. Yes, voting for today's Democrat party means voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity. This should be self-evident to any believer, as pointed out above.

2. Yes. As pointed out above, when a heart change is not accompanied by a behavioral change (faith that leads to fruit/works), that is a sign that one may not be Christian. It could also mean that one is saved, but has erred in their beliefs, or is immature in their faith. There are several possibilities.

---

You are adding works (voting preference) to the Gospel.

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

Two part question, two part answer:

1. Yes, voting for today's Democrat party means voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity. This should be self-evident to any believer, as pointed out above.

2. Yes. As pointed out above, when a heart change is not accompanied by a behavioral change (faith that leads to fruit/works), that is a sign that one may not be Christian. It could also mean that one is saved, but has erred in their beliefs, or is immature in their faith. There are several possibilities.

---

You are adding works (voting preference) to the Gospel.

---

Sorry, but that is again a false and erroneous statement, and demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of basic Christian theology on the subject of works and fruit. I'd suggest pulling out the Pauline letters and looking at the verses I've quoted in this thread. Paul does a much better job of explaining it than I could.

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

Two part question, two part answer:

1. Yes, voting for today's Democrat party means voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity. This should be self-evident to any believer, as pointed out above.

2. Yes. As pointed out above, when a heart change is not accompanied by a behavioral change (faith that leads to fruit/works), that is a sign that one may not be Christian. It could also mean that one is saved, but has erred in their beliefs, or is immature in their faith. There are several possibilities.

---

You are adding works (voting preference) to the Gospel.

---

Sorry, but that is again a false and erroneous statement, and demonstrates a fundamental understanding of basic Christian theology on the subject of works and fruit. I'd suggest pulling out the Pauline letters and looking at the verses I've quoted in this thread. Paul does a much better job of explaining it that I could.

---

We disagree on your theology. I'd suggest you do a little self examination.

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Apparently, this basic concept of Christianity is lost on him. He appears to subscribe to the belief that one can be a serial killer, living a life completely antagonistic to Christ's teachings, and still be a Christian. He misunderstands the concept of faith without works being dead. Never seen anything quite like it.

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

Two part question, two part answer:

1. Yes, voting for today's Democrat party means voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity. This should be self-evident to any believer, as pointed out above.

2. Yes. As pointed out above, when a heart change is not accompanied by a behavioral change (faith that leads to fruit/works), that is a sign that one may not be Christian. It could also mean that one is saved, but has erred in their beliefs, or is immature in their faith. There are several possibilities.

---

You are adding works (voting preference) to the Gospel.

---

Sorry, but that is again a false and erroneous statement, and demonstrates a fundamental understanding of basic Christian theology on the subject of works and fruit. I'd suggest pulling out the Pauline letters and looking at the verses I've quoted in this thread. Paul does a much better job of explaining it that I could.

---

We disagree on your theology. I'd suggest you do a little self examination.

---

Well, you can disagree all you want, but unfortunately, you don't have even a smidge of scripture that backs your unbiblical position.

I think the real issue here is your defensiveness.

Mothra said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Apparently, this basic concept of Christianity is lost on him. He appears to subscribe to the belief that one can be a serial killer, living a life completely antagonistic to Christ's teachings, and still be a Christian. He misunderstands with concept of faith without works being dead. Never seen anything quite like it.

---

Let's try this.
Which policies are antithetical to Christianity?

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

Two part question, two part answer:

1. Yes, voting for today's Democrat party means voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity. This should be self-evident to any believer, as pointed out above.

2. Yes. As pointed out above, when a heart change is not accompanied by a behavioral change (faith that leads to fruit/works), that is a sign that one may not be Christian. It could also mean that one is saved, but has erred in their beliefs, or is immature in their faith. There are several possibilities.

---

You are adding works (voting preference) to the Gospel.

---

Sorry, but that is again a false and erroneous statement, and demonstrates a fundamental understanding of basic Christian theology on the subject of works and fruit. I'd suggest pulling out the Pauline letters and looking at the verses I've quoted in this thread. Paul does a much better job of explaining it that I could.

---

We disagree on your theology. I'd suggest you do a little self examination.

---

I would suggest you take the advice given out and use it for yourself. It could be your theology that is flawed. It may or may not be..

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Apparently, this basic concept of Christianity is lost on him. He appears to subscribe to the belief that one can be a serial killer, living a life completely antagonistic to Christ's teachings, and still be a Christian. He misunderstands with concept of faith without works being dead. Never seen anything quite like it.

---

Let's try this.
Which policies are antithetical to Christianity?

---

Sorry, we've been down this road. I've already pointed out the areas of the Democrat Party that are antagonistic to Christianity. I don't think repeating myself is going to get us anywhere.

It's a pretty basic and universal tenet in Christendom that one cannot live a life antagonistic to the Gospels and still be Christian. If we can't agree on that basic theological concept, it doesn't appear we are going to agree on much else.

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Apparently, this basic concept of Christianity is lost on him. He appears to subscribe to the belief that one can be a serial killer, living a life completely antagonistic to Christ's teachings, and still be a Christian. He misunderstands with concept of faith without works being dead. Never seen anything quite like it.

---

Let's try this.
Which policies are antithetical to Christianity?

---

Sorry, we've been down this road. I've already pointed out the areas of the Democrat Party that are antagonistic to Christianity. I don't think repeating myself is going to get us anywhere.

It's a pretty basic and universal tenet in Christendom that one cannot live a life antagonistic to the Gospels and still be Christian. If we can't agree on that basic theological concept, it doesn't appear we are going to agree on much else.

---

Higher taxes?
Getting out of Afghanistan?
Stewardship of the planet?

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Apparently, this basic concept of Christianity is lost on him. He appears to subscribe to the belief that one can be a serial killer, living a life completely antagonistic to Christ's teachings, and still be a Christian. He misunderstands with concept of faith without works being dead. Never seen anything quite like it.

---

Let's try this.
Which policies are antithetical to Christianity?

---

Sorry, we've been down this road. I've already pointed out the areas of the Democrat Party that are antagonistic to Christianity. I don't think repeating myself is going to get us anywhere.

It's a pretty basic and universal tenet in Christendom that one cannot live a life antagonistic to the Gospels and still be Christian. If we can't agree on that basic theological concept, it doesn't appear we are going to agree on much else.

---

Higher taxes?
Getting out of Afghanistan?
Stewardship of the planet?

---

Take a look at my response to you on this topic on the early pages of this thread. Again, we are re-treading the same ground. That is unproductive.

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

Two part question, two part answer:

1. Yes, voting for today's Democrat party means voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity. This should be self-evident to any believer, as pointed out above.

2. Yes. As pointed out above, when a heart change is not accompanied by a behavioral change (faith that leads to fruit/works), that is a sign that one may not be Christian. It could also mean that one is saved, but has erred in their beliefs, or is immature in their faith. There are several possibilities.

---

You are adding works (voting preference) to the Gospel.

---

Sorry, but that is again a false and erroneous statement, and demonstrates a fundamental understanding of basic Christian theology on the subject of works and fruit. I'd suggest pulling out the Pauline letters and looking at the verses I've quoted in this thread. Paul does a much better job of explaining it that I could.

---

We disagree on your theology. I'd suggest you do a little self examination.

---

I would suggest you take the advice given out and use it for yourself. It could be your theology that is flawed. It may or may not be..

---

So, do you think your voting history is dispositive of Christianity?
Suppose a Christian believes Democrats will be better stewards of the planet consistent with Biblical teaching. Going to hell?

The point is voting patterns don't make you a Christian anymore than being heterosexual makes you a Christian.

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Apparently, this basic concept of Christianity is lost on him. He appears to subscribe to the belief that one can be a serial killer, living a life completely antagonistic to Christ's teachings, and still be a Christian. He misunderstands with concept of faith without works being dead. Never seen anything quite like it.

---

Let's try this.
Which policies are antithetical to Christianity?

---

Sorry, we've been down this road. I've already pointed out the areas of the Democrat Party that are antagonistic to Christianity. I don't think repeating myself is going to get us anywhere.

It's a pretty basic and universal tenet in Christendom that one cannot live a life antagonistic to the Gospels and still be Christian. If we can't agree on that basic theological concept, it doesn't appear we are going to agree on much else.

---

Higher taxes?
Getting out of Afghanistan?
Stewardship of the planet?

---

Take a look at my response to you on this topic on the early pages of this thread. Again, we are re-treading the same ground. That is unproductive.

---

never mind

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Apparently, this basic concept of Christianity is lost on him. He appears to subscribe to the belief that one can be a serial killer, living a life completely antagonistic to Christ's teachings, and still be a Christian. He misunderstands with concept of faith without works being dead. Never seen anything quite like it.

---

Let's try this.
Which policies are antithetical to Christianity?

---

Sorry, we've been down this road. I've already pointed out the areas of the Democrat Party that are antagonistic to Christianity. I don't think repeating myself is going to get us anywhere.

It's a pretty basic and universal tenet in Christendom that one cannot live a life antagonistic to the Gospels and still be Christian. If we can't agree on that basic theological concept, it doesn't appear we are going to agree on much else.

---

Higher taxes?
Getting out of Afghanistan?
Stewardship of the planet?

---

Take a look at my response to you on this topic on the early pages of this thread. Again, we are re-treading the same ground. That is unproductive.

---

Ashamed of your earlier posts?

---

Are you saying people can vote for Democrats fully knowing their policies and still call themselves Christians? Why?

See? I can go in circles, too.

Wangchung said:

---

See? I can go in circles, too.

---

Mothra agrees with me

This is a quote from Mothra on another thread.

" How one votes does not determine one's salvation."

Osodecentx said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

Two part question, two part answer:

1. Yes, voting for today's Democrat party means voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity. This should be self-evident to any believer, as pointed out above.

2. Yes. As pointed out above, when a heart change is not accompanied by a behavioral change (faith that leads to fruit/works), that is a sign that one may not be Christian. It could also mean that one is saved, but has erred in their beliefs, or is immature in their faith. There are several possibilities.

---

You are adding works (voting preference) to the Gospel.

---

Sorry, but that is again a false and erroneous statement, and demonstrates a fundamental understanding of basic Christian theology on the subject of works and fruit. I'd suggest pulling out the Pauline letters and looking at the verses I've quoted in this thread. Paul does a much better job of explaining it that I could.

---

We disagree on your theology. I'd suggest you do a little self examination.

---

I would suggest you take the advice given out and use it for yourself. It could be your theology that is flawed. It may or may not be..

---

So, do you think your voting history is dispositive of Christianity?
Suppose a Christian believes Democrats will be better stewards of the planet consistent with Biblical teaching. Going to hell?

The point is voting patterns don't make you a Christian anymore than being heterosexual makes you a Christian.

---

sounds like your opinion, link?

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Apparently, this basic concept of Christianity is lost on him. He appears to subscribe to the belief that one can be a serial killer, living a life completely antagonistic to Christ's teachings, and still be a Christian. He misunderstands with concept of faith without works being dead. Never seen anything quite like it.

---

Let's try this.
Which policies are antithetical to Christianity?

---

Sorry, we've been down this road. I've already pointed out the areas of the Democrat Party that are antagonistic to Christianity. I don't think repeating myself is going to get us anywhere.

It's a pretty basic and universal tenet in Christendom that one cannot live a life antagonistic to the Gospels and still be Christian. If we can't agree on that basic theological concept, it doesn't appear we are going to agree on much else.

---

Higher taxes?
Getting out of Afghanistan?
Stewardship of the planet?

---

Take a look at my response to you on this topic on the early pages of this thread. Again, we are re-treading the same ground. That is unproductive.

---

Ashamed of your earlier posts? I understand

---

Am I ashamed that I said the Democrats' positions on life, abortion and LGBTQ+ issues are the antithesis of Christianity? Um, no. Again, even a basic understanding of NT scripture would show they are. I am not ashamed of God's stance on those issues.

I simply don't think the exact same questions need to be answered again. It's odd you think that's a sign of shame.

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

See? I can go in circles, too.

---

Mothra agrees with me

This is a quote from Mothra on another thread.

" How one votes does not determine one's salvation."

---

If I agree with you, then why do you keep arguing the opposite - that I said one must vote a certain way to be saved? Which is it?

You are going in circles.

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

See? I can go in circles, too.

---

Mothra agrees with me

This is a quote from Mothra on another thread.

" How one votes does not determine one's salvation."

---

If I agree with you, then why do you keep arguing the opposite - that I said one must vote a certain way to be saved? Which is it?

You are going in circles.

---

You contradict yourself.

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Apparently, this basic concept of Christianity is lost on him. He appears to subscribe to the belief that one can be a serial killer, living a life completely antagonistic to Christ's teachings, and still be a Christian. He misunderstands with concept of faith without works being dead. Never seen anything quite like it.

---

Let's try this.
Which policies are antithetical to Christianity?

---

Sorry, we've been down this road. I've already pointed out the areas of the Democrat Party that are antagonistic to Christianity. I don't think repeating myself is going to get us anywhere.

It's a pretty basic and universal tenet in Christendom that one cannot live a life antagonistic to the Gospels and still be Christian. If we can't agree on that basic theological concept, it doesn't appear we are going to agree on much else.

---

Higher taxes?
Getting out of Afghanistan?
Stewardship of the planet?

---

Take a look at my response to you on this topic on the early pages of this thread. Again, we are re-treading the same ground. That is unproductive.

---

Ashamed of your earlier posts? I understand

---

Am I ashamed that I said the Democrats' positions on life, abortion and LGBTQ+ issues are the antithesis of Christianity? Um, no. Again, even a basic understanding of NT scripture would show they are. I am not ashamed of God's stance on those issues.

I simply don't think the exact same questions need to be answered again. It's odd you think that's a sign of shame.

---

I edited the earlier post and apologize.

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

See? I can go in circles, too.

---

Mothra agrees with me

This is a quote from Mothra on another thread.

" How one votes does not determine one's salvation."

---

If I agree with you, then why do you keep arguing the opposite - that I said one must vote a certain way to be saved? Which is it?

You are going in circles.

---

You contradict yourself.

---

I've contradicted myself???? My gosh.

Ok, what have I contradicted?

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

See? I can go in circles, too.

---

Mothra agrees with me

This is a quote from Mothra on another thread.

" How one votes does not determine one's salvation."

---

If I agree with you, then why do you keep arguing the opposite - that I said one must vote a certain way to be saved? Which is it?

You are going in circles.

---

You contradict yourself.

---

My gosh.

Ok, what have I contradicted?

---

I'm trying to de-escalate. You think you're right. I think I'm right

You are a Christian brother

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

See? I can go in circles, too.

---

Mothra agrees with me

This is a quote from Mothra on another thread.

" How one votes does not determine one's salvation."

---

If I agree with you, then why do you keep arguing the opposite - that I said one must vote a certain way to be saved? Which is it?

You are going in circles.

---

You contradict yourself.

---

My gosh.

Ok, what have I contradicted?

---

I'm trying to de-escalate. You think you're right. I think I'm right

You are a Christian brother

---

Well, if you have a basis for saying it, I will examine. But I've been consistent throughout this entire thread, and have yet to see any evidence supporting your position.

For the record, I believe you are as well, despite the fact you voted Democrat in the midterms.

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

See? I can go in circles, too.

---

Mothra agrees with me

This is a quote from Mothra on another thread.

" How one votes does not determine one's salvation."

---

If I agree with you, then why do you keep arguing the opposite - that I said one must vote a certain way to be saved? Which is it?

You are going in circles.

---

You contradict yourself.

---

My gosh.

Ok, what have I contradicted?

---

I'm trying to de-escalate. You think you're right. I think I'm right

You are a Christian brother

---

Well, if you have a basis for saying it, I will examine. But I've been consistent throughout this entire thread, and have yet to see any evidence supporting your position.

For the record, I believe you are as well, despite the fact you voted Democrat in the midterms.

---

I voted against Paxton, Sid Miller and the local Republican state rep. I'd do the same again today.

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

See? I can go in circles, too.

---

Mothra agrees with me

This is a quote from Mothra on another thread.

" How one votes does not determine one's salvation."

---

If I agree with you, then why do you keep arguing the opposite - that I said one must vote a certain way to be saved? Which is it?

You are going in circles.

---

You contradict yourself.

---

My gosh.

Ok, what have I contradicted?

---

I'm trying to de-escalate. You think you're right. I think I'm right

You are a Christian brother

---

Well, if you have a basis for saying it, I will examine. But I've been consistent throughout this entire thread, and have yet to see any evidence supporting your position.

For the record, I believe you are as well, despite the fact you voted Democrat in the midterms.

---

I voted against Paxton, Sid Miller and the local Republican state rep. I'd do the same again today.

---

I understand. We've discussed the woke policies the opponents of those elected officials supported, if you recall. It wasn't good.

Don't forget you supported Democrats outside the state financially.

I think you erred in how you voted, just as any Christian who voted Dem this last election. But it doesn't mean you're not a Christian.

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

See? I can go in circles, too.

---

Mothra agrees with me

This is a quote from Mothra on another thread.

" How one votes does not determine one's salvation."

---

If I agree with you, then why do you keep arguing the opposite - that I said one must vote a certain way to be saved? Which is it?

You are going in circles.

---

You contradict yourself.

---

My gosh.

Ok, what have I contradicted?

---

I'm trying to de-escalate. You think you're right. I think I'm right

You are a Christian brother

---

Well, if you have a basis for saying it, I will examine. But I've been consistent throughout this entire thread, and have yet to see any evidence supporting your position.

For the record, I believe you are as well, despite the fact you voted Democrat in the midterms.

---

I voted against Paxton, Sid Miller and the local Republican state rep. I'd do the same again today.

---

I understand. We've discussed the woke policies the opponents of those elected officials supported, if you recall. It wasn't good.

Don't forget you supported Democrats outside the state financially.

I think you erred in how you voted, just as any Christian who voted Dem this last election. But it doesn't mean you're not a Christian.

---

Wait, I also voted against Dan Patrick.
Cheney is a Republican

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

See? I can go in circles, too.

---

Mothra agrees with me

This is a quote from Mothra on another thread.

" How one votes does not determine one's salvation."

---

If I agree with you, then why do you keep arguing the opposite - that I said one must vote a certain way to be saved? Which is it?

You are going in circles.

---

You contradict yourself.

---

My gosh.

Ok, what have I contradicted?

---

I'm trying to de-escalate. You think you're right. I think I'm right

You are a Christian brother

---

Well, if you have a basis for saying it, I will examine. But I've been consistent throughout this entire thread, and have yet to see any evidence supporting your position.

For the record, I believe you are as well, despite the fact you voted Democrat in the midterms.

---

I voted against Paxton, Sid Miller and the local Republican state rep. I'd do the same again today.

---

I understand. We've discussed the woke policies the opponents of those elected officials supported, if you recall. It wasn't good.

Don't forget you supported Democrats outside the state financially.

I think you erred in how you voted, just as any Christian who voted Dem this last election. But it doesn't mean you're not a Christian.

---

Wait, I also voted against Dan Patrick.

---

So, you supported the candidates who supported tax-payer funded abortions on demand and transgender rights in the State of Texas, as well as legalization of drugs (among other woke policies).

All I can say is, thank God your candidates lost.

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

See? I can go in circles, too.

---

Mothra agrees with me

This is a quote from Mothra on another thread.

" How one votes does not determine one's salvation."

---

If I agree with you, then why do you keep arguing the opposite - that I said one must vote a certain way to be saved? Which is it?

You are going in circles.

---

You contradict yourself.

---

My gosh.

Ok, what have I contradicted?

---

I'm trying to de-escalate. You think you're right. I think I'm right

You are a Christian brother

---

Well, if you have a basis for saying it, I will examine. But I've been consistent throughout this entire thread, and have yet to see any evidence supporting your position.

For the record, I believe you are as well, despite the fact you voted Democrat in the midterms.

---

I voted against Paxton, Sid Miller and the local Republican state rep. I'd do the same again today.

---

I understand. We've discussed the woke policies the opponents of those elected officials supported, if you recall. It wasn't good.

Don't forget you supported Democrats outside the state financially.

I think you erred in how you voted, just as any Christian who voted Dem this last election. But it doesn't mean you're not a Christian.

---

Cheney is a Republican

---

LOL. Thanks for the laugh.

Thought you financially supported the Dems she supported as well.

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

See? I can go in circles, too.

---

Mothra agrees with me

This is a quote from Mothra on another thread.

" How one votes does not determine one's salvation."

---

If I agree with you, then why do you keep arguing the opposite - that I said one must vote a certain way to be saved? Which is it?

You are going in circles.

---

You contradict yourself.

---

My gosh.

Ok, what have I contradicted?

---

I'm trying to de-escalate. You think you're right. I think I'm right

You are a Christian brother

---

Well, if you have a basis for saying it, I will examine. But I've been consistent throughout this entire thread, and have yet to see any evidence supporting your position.

For the record, I believe you are as well, despite the fact you voted Democrat in the midterms.

---

I voted against Paxton, Sid Miller and the local Republican state rep. I'd do the same again today.

---

I understand. We've discussed the woke policies the opponents of those elected officials supported, if you recall. It wasn't good.

Don't forget you supported Democrats outside the state financially.

I think you erred in how you voted, just as any Christian who voted Dem this last election. But it doesn't mean you're not a Christian.

---

Wait, I also voted against Dan Patrick.

---

So, you supported the candidates who supported tax-payer funded abortions on demand and transgender rights in the State of Texas, as well as legalization of drugs (among other woke policies).

All I can say is, thank God your candidates lost.

---

Paxton and Miller are dishonest. dishonest. Patrick has changed the rules of the Texas Senate so all of those woke policies you hate will be much easier to pass when the Democrats take the Senate (think Harry Reid and Schumer)

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way..

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.