J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

I'm talking about you very good Christian folk who voted for Trump. I really have a hard time getting my head around how all the good Cristians square a human who resamples and act totally in conflict with Christian beliefs. How just do you people square that? I just do not get it. Hell , my parents are the same way and I don't get that either.

Because you refuse to differentiate identity from policy.

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

You had family members who voted for Biden? You know what that means

Osodecentx said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

You had family members who voted for Biden? You know what that means

---

that we may or may not be Christians? yeah..

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

You had family members who voted for Biden? You know what that means

---

that we may or may not be Christians? yeah..

---

Because of the way they voted

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

I'm talking about you very good Christian folk who voted for Trump. I really have a hard time getting my head around how all the good Cristians square a human who resamples and act totally in conflict with Christian beliefs. How just do you people square that? I just do not get it. Hell , my parents are the same way and I don't get that either.

---

Trumps policies are more Christian than Bidens.. thats how some of us squared it. Biden appears to be a nicer more Christian man to the public so some of us voted for him because he was the better Christian man.

Some of us Christians with high morals voted for neither and ended up with a low morals politician no matter who was chosen.

Wangchung said:

---

Because you refuse to differentiate identity from policy.

---

No, I cannot and will not. that is what is called a cop out and throwing your morals out the window. Guess, I knew that with you folks.

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Because you refuse to differentiate identity from policy.

---

No, I cannot and will not. that is what is called a cop out and throwing your morals out the window. Guess, I knew that with you folks.

---

A great man who implements evil policies that violate the faith of actual Christians is preferable to a fallen man who implements good policies that don't violate the Christian faith? You seem smart.

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

I'm talking about you very good Christian folk who voted for Trump. I really have a hard time getting my head around how all the good Cristians square a human who resamples and act totally in conflict with Christian beliefs. How just do you people square that? I just do not get it. Hell , my parents are the same way and I don't get that either.

---

Trumps policies are more Christian than Bidens.. thats how some of us squared it. Biden appears to be a nicer more Christian man to the public so some of us voted for him because he was the better Christian man.

Some of us Christians with high morals voted for neither and ended up with a low morals politician no matter who was chosen.

---

Ok...policies....which were what other than SC and abortion? Deficit? No, he ran that up like a drunken sailor. Energy...total fail. Stature on the world stage...fail. Trump is going to tell you people what you want to hear and yall just engulf the pablum, regardless if is in TOTAL contradiction to what you folks hold near and dear. Just don't get it. I don't like Biden except for my business (unattended consequences) So, Trump is banging a Porn Star and paying her off. He is a cheat, dishonest, bully, grifter, serial adulterer....but that is ok? You want your children to think that is the way to roll? You hold him up as a role model. Obviously, you do. I sure hope not. He is a POS and I subjugate policy with morality. I just can't separate the 2 , but you good pious folks can. How many abortions do you think Trump has paid for? All about policy, right? Eff that. Have a spine.

When you're ignorant of policy, go after personality. You have a TMZ level of political knowledge.

Wangchung said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Because you refuse to differentiate identity from policy.

---

No, I cannot and will not. that is what is called a cop out and throwing your morals out the window. Guess, I knew that with you folks.

---

A great man who implements evil policies that violate the faith of actual Christians is preferable to a fallen man who implements good policies that don't violate the Christian faith? You seem smart.

---

Who might that be?

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Because you refuse to differentiate identity from policy.

---

No, I cannot and will not. that is what is called a cop out and throwing your morals out the window. Guess, I knew that with you folks.

---

A great man who implements evil policies that violate the faith of actual Christians is preferable to a fallen man who implements good policies that don't violate the Christian faith? You seem smart.

---

Who might that be?

---

Well, I was using JR and other's fantasy about Biden. Did that confuse you? Are you now lost to the point here? Should we start all over again?

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

I'm talking about you very good Christian folk who voted for Trump. I really have a hard time getting my head around how all the good Cristians square a human who resamples and act totally in conflict with Christian beliefs. How just do you people square that? I just do not get it. Hell , my parents are the same way and I don't get that either.

---

Trumps policies are more Christian than Bidens.. thats how some of us squared it. Biden appears to be a nicer more Christian man to the public so some of us voted for him because he was the better Christian man.

Some of us Christians with high morals voted for neither and ended up with a low morals politician no matter who was chosen.

---

Ok...policies....which were what other than SC and abortion? Deficit? No, he ran that up like a drunken sailor. Energy...total fail. Stature on the world stage...fail. Trump is going to tell you people what you want to hear and yall just engulf the pablum, regardless if is in TOTAL contradiction to what you folks hold near and dear. Just don't get it. I don't like Biden except for my business (unattended consequences) So, Trump is banging a Porn Star and paying her off. He is a cheat, dishonest, bully, grifter, serial adulterer....but that is ok? You want your children to think that is the way to roll? You hold him up as a role model. Obviously, you do. I sure hope not. He is a POS and I subjugate policy with morality. I just can't separate the 2 , but you good pious folks can. How many abortions do you think Trump has paid for? All about policy, right? Eff that. Have a spine.

---

guessing you fall in the vote for the best Christian man catagory..

I can respect that.

You paint with a broad brush but its cool because its the internet and you should never taking anything posted oj an internet message board seriously

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Because you refuse to differentiate identity from policy.

---

No, I cannot and will not. that is what is called a cop out and throwing your morals out the window. Guess, I knew that with you folks.

---

A great man who implements evil policies that violate the faith of actual Christians is preferable to a fallen man who implements good policies that don't violate the Christian faith? You seem smart.

---

Who might that be?

---

Well, I was using JR and other's fantasy about Biden. Did that confuse you? Are you now lost to the point here? Should we start all over again?

---

As long as it is a Republican, it's cool

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Because you refuse to differentiate identity from policy.

---

No, I cannot and will not. that is what is called a cop out and throwing your morals out the window. Guess, I knew that with you folks.

---

A great man who implements evil policies that violate the faith of actual Christians is preferable to a fallen man who implements good policies that don't violate the Christian faith? You seem smart.

---

Who might that be?

---

Well, I was using JR and other's fantasy about Biden. Did that confuse you? Are you now lost to the point here? Should we start all over again?

---

As long as it is a Republican, it's cool

---

You believing Joe Biden is a Republican is a perfect example of why this conversation is pointless. Punching down eventually gets old. Lol

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Because you refuse to differentiate identity from policy.

---

No, I cannot and will not. that is what is called a cop out and throwing your morals out the window. Guess, I knew that with you folks.

---

A great man who implements evil policies that violate the faith of actual Christians is preferable to a fallen man who implements good policies that don't violate the Christian faith? You seem smart.

---

Who might that be?

---

Well, I was using JR and other's fantasy about Biden. Did that confuse you? Are you now lost to the point here? Should we start all over again?

---

As long as it is a Republican, it's cool

---

You believing Joe Biden is a Republican is a perfect example of why this conversation is pointless. Punching down eventually gets old. Lol

---

I get it. As long as it is a Republican, it's cool

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Because you refuse to differentiate identity from policy.

---

No, I cannot and will not. that is what is called a cop out and throwing your morals out the window. Guess, I knew that with you folks.

---

A great man who implements evil policies that violate the faith of actual Christians is preferable to a fallen man who implements good policies that don't violate the Christian faith? You seem smart.

---

Who might that be?

---

Well, I was using JR and other's fantasy about Biden. Did that confuse you? Are you now lost to the point here? Should we start all over again?

---

As long as it is a Republican, it's cool

---

You believing Joe Biden is a Republican is a perfect example of why this conversation is pointless. Punching down eventually gets old. Lol

---

I get it. As long as it is a Republican, it's cool

---

Yeah, sure, or you could look at the multiple, multiple posts made by my self and others that explain it clearly to you.

Wangchung said:

---

When you're ignorant of policy, go after personality. You have a TMZ level of political knowledge.

---

really? Please give me a glimpse into your CV and it will be obvious relative to political knowledge.

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

I'm talking about you very good Christian folk who voted for Trump. I really have a hard time getting my head around how all the good Cristians square a human who resamples and act totally in conflict with Christian beliefs. How just do you people square that? I just do not get it. Hell , my parents are the same way and I don't get that either.

---

Jeez, JR. You have the political insight of a teenager. There is no correlation whatsoever between the highly subjective standard of "public godliness" and effectiveness in political office. Some of the greatest leaders in history have been very flawed people, while a great many leaders deemed to be of inestimable character have been downright ineffective, feckless, destructive. Every candidate is a sinner. Some more obviously than others. Only an nincompoop would fail to look beyond the questions of faith and make a broader evaluation of character. A politician who makes good promises and keeps them, is a good politician, regardless of his faith. And any politician which accumulates a record of policy outcome that comports with the views of a plurality or better of the public has a future in public service, no matter how well he combs his hair or climbs a jetbridge.

Much of this discussion conflates the outcome of policies...how they impact matters of faith.....with the far more subjective personal moral rectitude of the candidates on the tickets.

Interesting article on this subject:
https://wacotrib.com/opinion/columnists/robert-baird-what-does-the-trolley-problem-teach-us/article_ee8a364c-beb5-11ed-853c-2b6493365c4f.html

The article itself does not directly address the third-party voter, but the implication is clear. Selection of a third inconsequential option (or candidate) which will have no impact on the moral dilemma itself is a patent virtue posture that one is above the mundane weighing of turdage necessary to ensure the sewers continue to flow.

whiterock said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

I'm talking about you very good Christian folk who voted for Trump. I really have a hard time getting my head around how all the good Cristians square a human who resamples and act totally in conflict with Christian beliefs. How just do you people square that? I just do not get it. Hell , my parents are the same way and I don't get that either.

---

Jeez, JR. You have the political insight of a teenager. There is no correlation whatsoever between the highly subjective standard of "public godliness" and effectiveness in political office. Some of the greatest leaders in history have been very flawed people, while a great many leaders deemed to be of inestimable character have been downright ineffective, feckless, destructive. Every candidate is a sinner. Some more obviously than others. Only an nincompoop would fail to look beyond the questions of faith and make a broader evaluation of character. A politician who makes good promises and keeps them, is a good politician, regardless of his faith. And any politician which accumulates a record of policy outcome that comports with the views of a plurality or better of the public has a future in public service, no matter how well he combs his hair or climbs a jetbridge.

Much of this discussion conflates the outcome of policies...how they impact matters of faith.....with the far more subjective personal moral rectitude of the candidates on the tickets.

Interesting article on this subject:
https://wacotrib.com/opinion/columnists/robert-baird-what-does-the-trolley-problem-teach-us/article_ee8a364c-beb5-11ed-853c-2b6493365c4f.html

The article itself does not directly address the third-party voter, but the implication is clear. Selection of a third inconsequential option (or candidate) which will have no impact on the moral dilemma itself is a patent virtue posture that one is above the mundane weighing of turdage necessary to ensure the sewers continue to flow.

---

call my political insights what you will. I'm just not voting for a morally reprehensible human that we know. Your take on great pols were crap people, but effective, but what you fail to delineate is that we did not know their moral failings prior to being elected. With Trumps, it is most different. He is a know, serial adulterer, PornStar poker, cheat, bully, pathological liar and the beat goes on. this issue is you good folk just want to keep your religious blinders on!

J.R. said:

---

whiterock said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

I'm talking about you very good Christian folk who voted for Trump. I really have a hard time getting my head around how all the good Cristians square a human who resamples and act totally in conflict with Christian beliefs. How just do you people square that? I just do not get it. Hell , my parents are the same way and I don't get that either.

---

Jeez, JR. You have the political insight of a teenager. There is no correlation whatsoever between the highly subjective standard of "public godliness" and effectiveness in political office. Some of the greatest leaders in history have been very flawed people, while a great many leaders deemed to be of inestimable character have been downright ineffective, feckless, destructive. Every candidate is a sinner. Some more obviously than others. Only an nincompoop would fail to look beyond the questions of faith and make a broader evaluation of character. A politician who makes good promises and keeps them, is a good politician, regardless of his faith. And any politician which accumulates a record of policy outcome that comports with the views of a plurality or better of the public has a future in public service, no matter how well he combs his hair or climbs a jetbridge.

Much of this discussion conflates the outcome of policies...how they impact matters of faith.....with the far more subjective personal moral rectitude of the candidates on the tickets.

Interesting article on this subject:
https://wacotrib.com/opinion/columnists/robert-baird-what-does-the-trolley-problem-teach-us/article_ee8a364c-beb5-11ed-853c-2b6493365c4f.html

The article itself does not directly address the third-party voter, but the implication is clear. Selection of a third inconsequential option (or candidate) which will have no impact on the moral dilemma itself is a patent virtue posture that one is above the mundane weighing of turdage necessary to ensure the sewers continue to flow.

---

call my political insights what you will. I'm just not voting for a morally reprehensible human that we know. Your take on great pols were crap people, but effective, but what you fail to delineate is that we did not know their moral failings prior to being elected. With Trumps, it is most different. He is a know, serial adulterer, PornStar poker, cheat, bully, pathological liar and the beat goes on. this issue is you good folk just want to keep your religious blinders on!

---

just so you know, everything you listed except pornstar poker applied to Biden and was known before the election. Remember he is the only president who had two prior unsuccessful runs that he dropped out for lying.. pathalogical liar. He cheated on his old wife with Jill. Listen to his speeches, he is a bully. He gropes women and does inappropriate things with young girls including his daughter by her own admission. And the beat goes on.. Good job putting such a moral man in office.

Wangchung said:

---

So weird that the only conservative mainstream media outlet has their employees private texts and emails published.

---

Maybe because they didn't intentionally defame Dominion voting and get sued for it?

Just a wild guess.

And if you think Fox is just about conservatism, you've been had.

Murdoch summed it up well in his deposition: "It's not about red or about blue. It's about green."

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

I'm talking about you very good Christian folk who voted for Trump. I really have a hard time getting my head around how all the good Cristians square a human who resamples and act totally in conflict with Christian beliefs. How just do you people square that? I just do not get it. Hell , my parents are the same way and I don't get that either.

---

I likewise have trouble figuring out people who think non-Christian policies are better than a non-Christian personality. Yes, Trump is a scumbag and a sinner, but his personal sins are not going to wreck the damn country. Many Democrat policies, on the other hand, are the antithesis of Christian mores, and will wreck the damn country.

It still shocks me that people such as yourself fail to grasp that. Don't let your personal dislike of Trump distract you from seeing the big picture.

Osodecentx said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

You had family members who voted for Biden? You know what that means

---

that we may or may not be Christians? yeah..

---

Because of the way they voted

---

No, it's a heart issue. Depends on where there heart is. Our decisions are a reflection of where are heart is.

The Hiroshima/Nagasaki scenario is the kind of false dilemma that often presents itself when you try to apply the trolley hypothetical to real life. A negotiated surrender would have avoided both tragic outcomes. However, it would not have secured our post-war hegemony in the way we desired.

Things get even messier when you consider that elections aren't surprises or one-time events. We all gather to watch this absurd scenario every four years. At some point, reasonable people have to ask who's tying all these people to the tracks and why. Who is this Whiterock, and why is he telling us we have no choice? For that matter, why is his company busy laying tracks and recruiting "volunteers" in countries all over the world? What's his angle? As repulsive as "virtue posturing" may be, there is something worse. Exploiting the misery of others while accusing them of hypocrisy is doubly hypocritical.

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

I'm talking about you very good Christian folk who voted for Trump. I really have a hard time getting my head around how all the good Cristians square a human who resamples and act totally in conflict with Christian beliefs. How just do you people square that? I just do not get it. Hell , my parents are the same way and I don't get that either.

---

Yes, Trump is a scumbag and a sinner, but his personal sins are not going to wreck the damn country.

---

If we're lucky.

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

I'm talking about you very good Christian folk who voted for Trump. I really have a hard time getting my head around how all the good Cristians square a human who resamples and act totally in conflict with Christian beliefs. How just do you people square that? I just do not get it. Hell , my parents are the same way and I don't get that either.

---

Trumps policies are more Christian than Bidens.. thats how some of us squared it. Biden appears to be a nicer more Christian man to the public so some of us voted for him because he was the better Christian man.

Some of us Christians with high morals voted for neither and ended up with a low morals politician no matter who was chosen.

---

Ok...policies....which were what other than SC and abortion? Deficit? No, he ran that up like a drunken sailor. Energy...total fail. Stature on the world stage...fail. Trump is going to tell you people what you want to hear and yall just engulf the pablum, regardless if is in TOTAL contradiction to what you folks hold near and dear. Just don't get it. I don't like Biden except for my business (unattended consequences) So, Trump is banging a Porn Star and paying her off. He is a cheat, dishonest, bully, grifter, serial adulterer....but that is ok? You want your children to think that is the way to roll? You hold him up as a role model. Obviously, you do. I sure hope not. He is a POS and I subjugate policy with morality. I just can't separate the 2 , but you good pious folks can. How many abortions do you think Trump has paid for? All about policy, right? Eff that. Have a spine.

---

Are you seriously trying to make the argument that Biden's policies are favorable to Trump? If so, remarkable.

Let's see, 1) taxpayer funded abortion on demand; 2) LGBTQ+ shoved down everyone's throats; 3) pretending gender is fungible, and biological men and women are the same, 4) signing executive orders mandating that biological men who identify as women should compete with women in sports, and share bathrooms, showers and lockerooms; 5) essentially open borders, with 2.5 million illegals who have invaded our country in the last 2 years, 6) out of control cartels on the borders; 7) fall of Saigon moment in pull out of troops in Afghanistan; 8) fighting a proxy war with Russia; 9) closer to nuclear war than at any point since the 60's; 10) NK testing missiles; 11) Iran going nuclear; 12) out of control inflation; 13) out of control spending; 14) houses no longer being affordable; 15) interest rates at a decade high; 16) supply chain issues...and on and on and on.

But yeah, Trump being a scumbag in his personal life sure is worse than all of the things that actually affect me.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

I'm talking about you very good Christian folk who voted for Trump. I really have a hard time getting my head around how all the good Cristians square a human who resamples and act totally in conflict with Christian beliefs. How just do you people square that? I just do not get it. Hell , my parents are the same way and I don't get that either.

---

Yes, Trump is a scumbag and a sinner, but his personal sins are not going to wreck the damn country.

---

If we're lucky.

---

We have 4 years of evidence that they will not. The last 2 years, on the other hand, make a pretty strong case that Biden might indeed wreck the country.

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

I'm talking about you very good Christian folk who voted for Trump. I really have a hard time getting my head around how all the good Cristians square a human who resamples and act totally in conflict with Christian beliefs. How just do you people square that? I just do not get it. Hell , my parents are the same way and I don't get that either.

---

Yes, Trump is a scumbag and a sinner, but his personal sins are not going to wreck the damn country.

---

If we're lucky.

---

We have 4 years of evidence that they will not. The last 2 years, on the other hand, make a pretty strong case that Biden might indeed wreck the country.

---

His four years were a mixed bag. His last few months were a disaster. If his narcissism doesn't wreck the country, it won't be for lack of trying.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

I'm talking about you very good Christian folk who voted for Trump. I really have a hard time getting my head around how all the good Cristians square a human who resamples and act totally in conflict with Christian beliefs. How just do you people square that? I just do not get it. Hell , my parents are the same way and I don't get that either.

---

Yes, Trump is a scumbag and a sinner, but his personal sins are not going to wreck the damn country.

---

If we're lucky.

---

We have 4 years of evidence that they will not. The last 2 years, on the other hand, make a pretty strong case that Biden might indeed wreck the country.

---

His four years were a mixed bag. His last few months were a disaster. If his narcissism doesn't wreck the country, it won't be for lack of trying.

---

I agree it was 4 years of a mixed bag. But the one thing we weren't on the precipice of was a nuclear war.

There's no way any reasonable conservative could argue the last two years of disaster were in any way preferable to Trump.

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

whiterock said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

I'm talking about you very good Christian folk who voted for Trump. I really have a hard time getting my head around how all the good Cristians square a human who resamples and act totally in conflict with Christian beliefs. How just do you people square that? I just do not get it. Hell , my parents are the same way and I don't get that either.

---

Jeez, JR. You have the political insight of a teenager. There is no correlation whatsoever between the highly subjective standard of "public godliness" and effectiveness in political office. Some of the greatest leaders in history have been very flawed people, while a great many leaders deemed to be of inestimable character have been downright ineffective, feckless, destructive. Every candidate is a sinner. Some more obviously than others. Only an nincompoop would fail to look beyond the questions of faith and make a broader evaluation of character. A politician who makes good promises and keeps them, is a good politician, regardless of his faith. And any politician which accumulates a record of policy outcome that comports with the views of a plurality or better of the public has a future in public service, no matter how well he combs his hair or climbs a jetbridge.

Much of this discussion conflates the outcome of policies...how they impact matters of faith.....with the far more subjective personal moral rectitude of the candidates on the tickets.

Interesting article on this subject:
https://wacotrib.com/opinion/columnists/robert-baird-what-does-the-trolley-problem-teach-us/article_ee8a364c-beb5-11ed-853c-2b6493365c4f.html

The article itself does not directly address the third-party voter, but the implication is clear. Selection of a third inconsequential option (or candidate) which will have no impact on the moral dilemma itself is a patent virtue posture that one is above the mundane weighing of turdage necessary to ensure the sewers continue to flow.

---

call my political insights what you will. I'm just not voting for a morally reprehensible human that we know. Your take on great pols were crap people, but effective, but what you fail to delineate is that we did not know their moral failings prior to being elected. With Trumps, it is most different. He is a know, serial adulterer, PornStar poker, cheat, bully, pathological liar and the beat goes on. this issue is you good folk just want to keep your religious blinders on!

---

just so you know, everything you listed except pornstar poker applied to Biden and was known before the election. Remember he is the only president who had two prior unsuccessful runs that he dropped out for lying.. pathalogical liar. He cheated on his old wife with Jill. Listen to his speeches, he is a bully. He gropes women and does inappropriate things with young girls including his daughter by her own admission. And the beat goes on.. Good job putting such a moral man in office.

---

stop with the "what about" non-sense. I didn't vote for Biden, thanks. I am certainly not a Biden fan, but it is a real stretch to compare relative morality to Big Fat Orange. oh and btw, Trump not only lost the Presidency, but the House and Senate to boot. Never has happened. Trump is a LOSER (how ironic). Why you people think he is qualified to be the leader of the free world is just ludicrous !

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

I'm talking about you very good Christian folk who voted for Trump. I really have a hard time getting my head around how all the good Cristians square a human who resamples and act totally in conflict with Christian beliefs. How just do you people square that? I just do not get it. Hell , my parents are the same way and I don't get that either.

---

Trumps policies are more Christian than Bidens.. thats how some of us squared it. Biden appears to be a nicer more Christian man to the public so some of us voted for him because he was the better Christian man.

Some of us Christians with high morals voted for neither and ended up with a low morals politician no matter who was chosen.

---

Ok...policies....which were what other than SC and abortion? Deficit? No, he ran that up like a drunken sailor. Energy...total fail. Stature on the world stage...fail. Trump is going to tell you people what you want to hear and yall just engulf the pablum, regardless if is in TOTAL contradiction to what you folks hold near and dear. Just don't get it. I don't like Biden except for my business (unattended consequences) So, Trump is banging a Porn Star and paying her off. He is a cheat, dishonest, bully, grifter, serial adulterer....but that is ok? You want your children to think that is the way to roll? You hold him up as a role model. Obviously, you do. I sure hope not. He is a POS and I subjugate policy with morality. I just can't separate the 2 , but you good pious folks can. How many abortions do you think Trump has paid for? All about policy, right? Eff that. Have a spine.

---

Are you seriously trying to make the argument that Biden's policies are favorable to Trump? If so, remarkable.

Let's see, 1) taxpayer funded abortion on demand; 2) LGBTQ+ shoved down everyone's throats; 3) pretending gender is fungible, and biological men and women are the same, 4) signing executive orders mandating that biological men who identify as women should compete with women in sports, and share bathrooms, showers and lockerooms; 5) essentially open borders, with 2.5 million illegals who have invaded our country in the last 2 years, 6) out of control cartels on the borders; 7) fall of Saigon moment in pull out of troops in Afghanistan; 8) fighting a proxy war with Russia; 9) closer to nuclear war than at any point since the 60's; 10) NK testing missiles; 11) Iran going nuclear; 12) out of control inflation; 13) out of control spending; 14) houses no longer being affordable; 15) interest rates at a decade high; 16) supply chain issues...and on and on and on.

But yeah, Trump being a scumbag in his personal life sure is worse than all of the things that actually affect me.

---

No, not in any way am I saying Biden's policies are favorable to Trumps. 1) Not true. Not taxpayer funded 2) Queer rights. I think everyone deserves the same rights, but don't like it all up in my grill. Hell, I live next door to the Gayborhood in Dallas and have zero issues with those folks. (not my job to judge). 3) Gender crap is crap. 4) do do the gender athletics crap...I'm too busy. 5) Mexican border is a problem. Needs to be addressed now. We need to follow the laws on the books. We need immigration from a workforce perspective, but legally. How'd that fence work out???? Did we ever get the check from Mexico? Such BS. 6) we cant control cartels, but we should put more pressure on Mexico. 7) Afganistan was an abject fail. that is on Biden 8) Proxy war with Russian. *** do you even mean? Russia invaded a democratic neighbor country and that cannot be allowed, ever! 9) that is just dumb. ain't nobody firing off a NUC! 10)NK was doing that during the Trumpy cascade and he read and sent love letters to Kim (What?). What a clown 11)We will not allow Iran to go Nuclear. Now, Trumps dalliance with Putin and Saudi who now seem to have an alliance was a huge mistake! (Trumps). 12). How do you think we got into run away inflation? Trump printing money and running up the deficit to all time highs was a huge, huge mistake. Have you seen the data on the deficit under Trumps? Very drunk sailor. 13) yup, Trumps and Biden both to blame. 14). Housing no longer being affordable? What the hell are you talking about? For whom? Housing is affordable, just depends on what trade you are willing to make. That is just basic economics. Hell, you sound like a tried and true Democrat with that non-sense. 15). So you want more of the "free money"? Trump gave it to you and look what happened. That cannot continue. Not sustainable. 16). Supply Chain issues have NOTHING to do with govt. It has to do with businesses (I ran a $15B company which supply chain was key, so I may know a little about that. You want to get into more detail?

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

whiterock said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

I'm talking about you very good Christian folk who voted for Trump. I really have a hard time getting my head around how all the good Cristians square a human who resamples and act totally in conflict with Christian beliefs. How just do you people square that? I just do not get it. Hell , my parents are the same way and I don't get that either.

---

Jeez, JR. You have the political insight of a teenager. There is no correlation whatsoever between the highly subjective standard of "public godliness" and effectiveness in political office. Some of the greatest leaders in history have been very flawed people, while a great many leaders deemed to be of inestimable character have been downright ineffective, feckless, destructive. Every candidate is a sinner. Some more obviously than others. Only an nincompoop would fail to look beyond the questions of faith and make a broader evaluation of character. A politician who makes good promises and keeps them, is a good politician, regardless of his faith. And any politician which accumulates a record of policy outcome that comports with the views of a plurality or better of the public has a future in public service, no matter how well he combs his hair or climbs a jetbridge.

Much of this discussion conflates the outcome of policies...how they impact matters of faith.....with the far more subjective personal moral rectitude of the candidates on the tickets.

Interesting article on this subject:
https://wacotrib.com/opinion/columnists/robert-baird-what-does-the-trolley-problem-teach-us/article_ee8a364c-beb5-11ed-853c-2b6493365c4f.html

The article itself does not directly address the third-party voter, but the implication is clear. Selection of a third inconsequential option (or candidate) which will have no impact on the moral dilemma itself is a patent virtue posture that one is above the mundane weighing of turdage necessary to ensure the sewers continue to flow.

---

call my political insights what you will. I'm just not voting for a morally reprehensible human that we know. Your take on great pols were crap people, but effective, but what you fail to delineate is that we did not know their moral failings prior to being elected. With Trumps, it is most different. He is a know, serial adulterer, PornStar poker, cheat, bully, pathological liar and the beat goes on. this issue is you good folk just want to keep your religious blinders on!

---

just so you know, everything you listed except pornstar poker applied to Biden and was known before the election. Remember he is the only president who had two prior unsuccessful runs that he dropped out for lying.. pathalogical liar. He cheated on his old wife with Jill. Listen to his speeches, he is a bully. He gropes women and does inappropriate things with young girls including his daughter by her own admission. And the beat goes on.. Good job putting such a moral man in office.

---

stop with the "what about" non-sense. I didn't vote for Biden, thanks. I am certainly not a Biden fan, but it is a real stretch to compare relative morality to Big Fat Orange. oh and btw, Trump not only lost the Presidency, but the House and Senate to boot. Never has happened. Trump is a LOSER (how ironic). Why you people think he is qualified to be the leader of the free world is just ludicrous !

---

I don't know why you keep saying you people like you're excluded, you voted for him too..

You call it what about ism, sensible people call it what it is… The better of two choices. The only moral high ground was to not vote for either, but you have publicly stated you voted for Trump in the last election.

Attempting some moral superiority now is beyond ridiculus..

Enjoy your hypocrisy

J.R. said:

---

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

J.R. said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

---

If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?

---

correct.. you may or may not be a Christian

---

Unbelievable . who thinks this way, these days? Sad, really. Fairly sure JC would not approve.

---

so you would like me to judge whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian based on a few internet posts? Who thinks this way.

---

You people judge on what party someone votes.

---

you people? Me and my fellow session members at church? Me and other random posters on this site? Me and the 12 members of my immediate family who voted for both Trump and Biden in the last election and we still all talk and go to church and on family trips together(you know, the important stuff)?

Exactly who is the you people you were derogatorily referring to?

---

I'm talking about you very good Christian folk who voted for Trump. I really have a hard time getting my head around how all the good Cristians square a human who resamples and act totally in conflict with Christian beliefs. How just do you people square that? I just do not get it. Hell , my parents are the same way and I don't get that either.

---

Trumps policies are more Christian than Bidens.. thats how some of us squared it. Biden appears to be a nicer more Christian man to the public so some of us voted for him because he was the better Christian man.

Some of us Christians with high morals voted for neither and ended up with a low morals politician no matter who was chosen.

---

Ok...policies....which were what other than SC and abortion? Deficit? No, he ran that up like a drunken sailor. Energy...total fail. Stature on the world stage...fail. Trump is going to tell you people what you want to hear and yall just engulf the pablum, regardless if is in TOTAL contradiction to what you folks hold near and dear. Just don't get it. I don't like Biden except for my business (unattended consequences) So, Trump is banging a Porn Star and paying her off. He is a cheat, dishonest, bully, grifter, serial adulterer....but that is ok? You want your children to think that is the way to roll? You hold him up as a role model. Obviously, you do. I sure hope not. He is a POS and I subjugate policy with morality. I just can't separate the 2 , but you good pious folks can. How many abortions do you think Trump has paid for? All about policy, right? Eff that. Have a spine.

---

Are you seriously trying to make the argument that Biden's policies are favorable to Trump? If so, remarkable.

Let's see, 1) taxpayer funded abortion on demand; 2) LGBTQ+ shoved down everyone's throats; 3) pretending gender is fungible, and biological men and women are the same, 4) signing executive orders mandating that biological men who identify as women should compete with women in sports, and share bathrooms, showers and lockerooms; 5) essentially open borders, with 2.5 million illegals who have invaded our country in the last 2 years, 6) out of control cartels on the borders; 7) fall of Saigon moment in pull out of troops in Afghanistan; 8) fighting a proxy war with Russia; 9) closer to nuclear war than at any point since the 60's; 10) NK testing missiles; 11) Iran going nuclear; 12) out of control inflation; 13) out of control spending; 14) houses no longer being affordable; 15) interest rates at a decade high; 16) supply chain issues...and on and on and on.

But yeah, Trump being a scumbag in his personal life sure is worse than all of the things that actually affect me.

---

No, not in any way am I saying Biden's policies are favorable to Trumps. 1) Not true. Not taxpayer funded 2) Queer rights. I think everyone deserves the same rights, but don't like it all up in my grill. Hell, I live next door to the Gayborhood in Dallas and have zero issues with those folks. (not my job to judge). 3) Gender crap is crap. 4) do do the gender athletics crap...I'm too busy. 5) Mexican border is a problem. Needs to be addressed now. We need to follow the laws on the books. We need immigration from a workforce perspective, but legally. How'd that fence work out???? Did we ever get the check from Mexico? Such BS. 6) we cant control cartels, but we should put more pressure on Mexico. 7) Afganistan was an abject fail. that is on Biden 8) Proxy war with Russian. *** do you even mean? Russia invaded a democratic neighbor country and that cannot be allowed, ever! 9) that is just dumb. ain't nobody firing off a NUC! 10)NK was doing that during the Trumpy cascade and he read and sent love letters to Kim (What?). What a clown 11)We will not allow Iran to go Nuclear. Now, Trumps dalliance with Putin and Saudi who now seem to have an alliance was a huge mistake! (Trumps). 12). How do you think we got into run away inflation? Trump printing money and running up the deficit to all time highs was a huge, huge mistake. Have you seen the data on the deficit under Trumps? Very drunk sailor. 13) yup, Trumps and Biden both to blame. 14). Housing no longer being affordable? What the hell are you talking about? For whom? Housing is affordable, just depends on what trade you are willing to make. That is just basic economics. Hell, you sound like a tried and true Democrat with that non-sense. 15). So you want more of the "free money"? Trump gave it to you and look what happened. That cannot continue. Not sustainable. 16). Supply Chain issues have NOTHING to do with govt. It has to do with businesses (I ran a $15B company which supply chain was key, so I may know a little about that. You want to get into more detail?

---

So Biden's policies aren't favorable to Trump, but you prefer him to Trump because Trump is a scumbag (as if Biden's not). Makes absolutely no sense.

1) Go to the Dems website. One of their policy proposals is tax-payer funded abortions. In fact, many states already offer these.

2) But they are up in your grill! That's the damn point!

6) Horse ***** We could put a ton of pressure on Mexico to get their **** together. We've done it in the past.

8) A few things... It is unlikely Russia would have invaded had Trump been president. Moreover, Biden's failure to give security assurances led to the invasion. We are not the world's policeman. An endless supply of weapons to a country neighboring Russia is a mistake. We can't afford it, and we can't afford the consequences of it.

9) Ah, so you think Putin will just play nice, and that we shouldn't take the nuclear threats seriously? Speaking of dumb, don't put it past the man to detonate something in Ukraine.

10) Actually, NK put a moratorium on those tests during the Trump admin.

12) Lots of factors. But Biden pumping substantially more money into the economy that Trump exacerbated the problem. Do you not realize this?

14) Educate yourself on the facts. Houses are more expensive than at any point in history. Biden's pumping money into the economy exacerbated the problem even further.

15) Of course not. But let's not pretend Biden's economic policies have largely contributed to these issues.

This is what you prefer to Trump. Simply remarkable.