J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

This thread really makes Goldwater's quotes about mixing religion and politics sound prescient.

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise."

"There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me ... that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are?"

That last part in bold is how a lot of people increasingly feel, especially after watching a bunch of "christians" support such obviously ungodly leaders and look down on others for not doing the same.

---

"I'm frankly sick and tired of the bible telling me ... that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are?" FIFY. Sorry you're upset that Christianity refuses to change according to the popular sentiments of the day.

---

The difference is the Bible is a love letter towards a human seeking a personal connection with God. The United States government is not an eternal religion with law and tenet set in stone, it is an ever changing mechanism that we hope allows many of different faiths to live together. To think that the government's job is to parrot what the Bible says about right and wrong... the conservatives truly brain wash like Champs.

---

So basically you're against murder laws. Got it. It must be very oppressive living under such burdensome laws based on religious texts...

---

Oh right its only Christians that don't want murder i forgot everyone else loves it.

---

It's okay, all those other religions are just as valid as Christianity! The Bible is just a love note tucked into our lunchbox from God, not instructions on how to live! It's merely suggestions, so live free and do whatever makes you feel good! Mickey Mou...I mean Jesus says everything is good and that sin is just a brainwashing concept that only Conservatives promote as a means to control people! It's right there in the Gospels of Madeupbull****, chapter 2 ver 1!

---

So Dr. Wang...Do you believe, that people who do not identify as "Christian" are all relegated to Hell? Do you believe that "Christians" have it ALL right and others do not?

---

I'm an actual Christian, not just one that identifies as Christian when it's socially advantageous, so I believe the way to heaven is through Christ alone. I realize that might offend your "Christian when convenient" belief system but it seems a lot about actual Christianity offends you.

Wangchung said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

This thread really makes Goldwater's quotes about mixing religion and politics sound prescient.

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise."

"There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me ... that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are?"

That last part in bold is how a lot of people increasingly feel, especially after watching a bunch of "christians" support such obviously ungodly leaders and look down on others for not doing the same.

---

"I'm frankly sick and tired of the bible telling me ... that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are?" FIFY. Sorry you're upset that Christianity refuses to change according to the popular sentiments of the day.

---

The difference is the Bible is a love letter towards a human seeking a personal connection with God. The United States government is not an eternal religion with law and tenet set in stone, it is an ever changing mechanism that we hope allows many of different faiths to live together. To think that the government's job is to parrot what the Bible says about right and wrong... the conservatives truly brain wash like Champs.

---

So basically you're against murder laws. Got it. It must be very oppressive living under such burdensome laws based on religious texts...

---

Oh right its only Christians that don't want murder i forgot everyone else loves it.

---

It's okay, all those other religions are just as valid as Christianity! The Bible is just a love note tucked into our lunchbox from God, not instructions on how to live! It's merely suggestions, so live free and do whatever makes you feel good! Mickey Mou...I mean Jesus says everything is good and that sin is just a brainwashing concept that only Conservatives promote as a means to control people! It's right there in the Gospels of Madeupbull****, chapter 2 ver 1!

---

So Dr. Wang...Do you believe, that people who do not identify as "Christian" are all relegated to Hell? Do you believe that "Christians" have it ALL right and others do not?

---

I'm an actual Christian, not just one that identifies as Christian when it's socially advantageous, so I believe the way to heaven is through Christ alone. I realize that might offend your "Christian when convenient" belief system but it seems a lot about actual Christianity offends you.

---

No, I'm Christian, but I'm fairly sure we don't have all the answers. You didn't answer the question. Do you believe that other huge religions in this world's followers are destined to "HELL"?

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

This thread really makes Goldwater's quotes about mixing religion and politics sound prescient.

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise."

"There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me ... that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are?"

That last part in bold is how a lot of people increasingly feel, especially after watching a bunch of "christians" support such obviously ungodly leaders and look down on others for not doing the same.

---

"I'm frankly sick and tired of the bible telling me ... that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are?" FIFY. Sorry you're upset that Christianity refuses to change according to the popular sentiments of the day.

---

The difference is the Bible is a love letter towards a human seeking a personal connection with God. The United States government is not an eternal religion with law and tenet set in stone, it is an ever changing mechanism that we hope allows many of different faiths to live together. To think that the government's job is to parrot what the Bible says about right and wrong... the conservatives truly brain wash like Champs.

---

So basically you're against murder laws. Got it. It must be very oppressive living under such burdensome laws based on religious texts...

---

Oh right its only Christians that don't want murder i forgot everyone else loves it.

---

It's okay, all those other religions are just as valid as Christianity! The Bible is just a love note tucked into our lunchbox from God, not instructions on how to live! It's merely suggestions, so live free and do whatever makes you feel good! Mickey Mou...I mean Jesus says everything is good and that sin is just a brainwashing concept that only Conservatives promote as a means to control people! It's right there in the Gospels of Madeupbull****, chapter 2 ver 1!

---

So Dr. Wang...Do you believe, that people who do not identify as "Christian" are all relegated to Hell? Do you believe that "Christians" have it ALL right and others do not?

---

I'm an actual Christian, not just one that identifies as Christian when it's socially advantageous, so I believe the way to heaven is through Christ alone. I realize that might offend your "Christian when convenient" belief system but it seems a lot about actual Christianity offends you.

---

No, I'm Christian, but I'm fairly sure we don't have all the answers. You didn't answer the question. Do you believe that other huge religions in this world's followers are destined to "HELL"?

---

You come across as agnostic. Other than Christianity, what gods have you chosen to put before the God of Jesus as a way to heaven? What non-Christian religious figures will you see in heaven next to Jesus?

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Faith is shown by your actions, not your ability to quote/copy and paste scripture. You can say you believe in Christ but if your actions say you're of this earth rather than merely in it then you're not living with faith. Voting in people who hate Christians and who promote and enable killing humans as healthcare is not living the faith.

---

Where do you guys post the minutes of the local Pharisee meetings?

---

Says the guy pushing the Disney version of Christianity...

---

Nope,
Solo Cristo
Solo Gratia
Solo Scriptura

(look it up)

Can socialists and communists get to heaven?

---

If they have recognized/stopped their sins and asked forgiveness, like any of us, then of course.

---

but not Democrats, communists, or socialists
What about Martin Luther & Huss?

Solo Cristo
Solo Gratia
Solo Scriptura

---

I know you want to pretend I've said democrats cannot ever attain salvation because what I'm actually saying is biblically irrefutable,

---

I keep asking the question, but you won't answer. Let's try again.
Can Democrats be Bible believing Christians?

Essentials of the faith:
The deity of Christ. Jesus is God.
Salvation by grace.
Salvation through Jesus Christ alone.
The resurrection of Christ.

Nothing about which candidate you vote for

---

But you don't believe in any of those things if you vote against your faith.
"Jesus is God!"
Oh? Then why don't you follow the Christian faith when voting? "Cuz salvation through Christ!"
Yes, but if you're not living according to Christ's teachings how can you say you actually have faith in those teachings? "Salvation by grace!"
Okay, so you're saying your actions are disconnected from your faith? Do you think God will buy that load of crap from you on judgement day?
"Salvation through Jesus Christ alone! The resurrection of Christ!"
Okay but you're not answering me, you're just repeating yourself and ignoring the fact that the Bible very clearly says faith without acts is dead.
"Solo Cristo!
Solo Gratia!
Solo Scriptura!"
Good talk. Thanks for participating.

---

i keep asking the question, but you won't answer. Let's try again.

Can Democrats be Bible believing Christians?
What about a tax collector and a prostitute?

---

One cannot continue to choose to sin and call themselves a Christian. If you're actively voting for Democrats then no, your empowerment of anti-God, baby killing legislators is the antithesis of your purported faith. If you don't act according to the Christian faith then by definition you are not a bible believing Christian. As has been stated repeatedly in this thread, you CAN be a FORMER democrat and be saved. Once you stop committing the sin you can receive salvation. If you're still committing the sin while asking forgiveness it's obvious you aren't truly repentant. Well, obvious to everyone but you. John 8:11

---

Thank you for answering the question.
You're saying that voting for Democrats is the antithesis of the Christian faith and by definition such a person is not a bible believing Christian.
Voting for Democrats is a sin but it is a sin for which you can be forgiven and receive the gift of salvation.

Is this your belief?

---

Voting for people who promote sin as policy is empowering sin. Absolutely. You don't get to vote them into power and then wash your hands of the consequences, Pontius.

---

What if a born again Christian was voting for Republicans and then starts voting for Democrats? Does he lose his salvation? If he then starts voting Republican does he regain his salvation?

---

You aren't really born again if you're knowingly committing sin. We know them by their fruits.

---

Was he saved when he was voting Republican the first time (before he started voting Democrat)?

---

Is an ex con who found Jesus in prison and was born again still saved if he goes on a killing spree after being released?

---

Depends on his heart

---

Did you know scripture tells us we can know a man's heart by his work and fruits?

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

1 John 1:6-7

If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 Peter 1:16

...since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."

2 Peter 2:1-3

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

1 John 3:4-10

Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

---

Gal 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Faith is shown by your actions, not your ability to quote/copy and paste scripture. You can say you believe in Christ but if your actions say you're of this earth rather than merely in it then you're not living with faith. Voting in people who hate Christians and who promote and enable killing humans as healthcare is not living the faith.

---

Where do you guys post the minutes of the local Pharisee meetings?

---

Says the guy pushing the Disney version of Christianity...

---

Nope,
Solo Cristo
Solo Gratia
Solo Scriptura

(look it up)

Can socialists and communists get to heaven?

---

If they have recognized/stopped their sins and asked forgiveness, like any of us, then of course.

---

but not Democrats, communists, or socialists
What about Martin Luther & Huss?

Solo Cristo
Solo Gratia
Solo Scriptura

---

I know you want to pretend I've said democrats cannot ever attain salvation because what I'm actually saying is biblically irrefutable,

---

I keep asking the question, but you won't answer. Let's try again.
Can Democrats be Bible believing Christians?

Essentials of the faith:
The deity of Christ. Jesus is God.
Salvation by grace.
Salvation through Jesus Christ alone.
The resurrection of Christ.

Nothing about which candidate you vote for

---

But you don't believe in any of those things if you vote against your faith.
"Jesus is God!"
Oh? Then why don't you follow the Christian faith when voting? "Cuz salvation through Christ!"
Yes, but if you're not living according to Christ's teachings how can you say you actually have faith in those teachings? "Salvation by grace!"
Okay, so you're saying your actions are disconnected from your faith? Do you think God will buy that load of crap from you on judgement day?
"Salvation through Jesus Christ alone! The resurrection of Christ!"
Okay but you're not answering me, you're just repeating yourself and ignoring the fact that the Bible very clearly says faith without acts is dead.
"Solo Cristo!
Solo Gratia!
Solo Scriptura!"
Good talk. Thanks for participating.

---

i keep asking the question, but you won't answer. Let's try again.

Can Democrats be Bible believing Christians?
What about a tax collector and a prostitute?

---

One cannot continue to choose to sin and call themselves a Christian. If you're actively voting for Democrats then no, your empowerment of anti-God, baby killing legislators is the antithesis of your purported faith. If you don't act according to the Christian faith then by definition you are not a bible believing Christian. As has been stated repeatedly in this thread, you CAN be a FORMER democrat and be saved. Once you stop committing the sin you can receive salvation. If you're still committing the sin while asking forgiveness it's obvious you aren't truly repentant. Well, obvious to everyone but you. John 8:11

---

Thank you for answering the question.
You're saying that voting for Democrats is the antithesis of the Christian faith and by definition such a person is not a bible believing Christian.
Voting for Democrats is a sin but it is a sin for which you can be forgiven and receive the gift of salvation.

Is this your belief?

---

Voting for people who promote sin as policy is empowering sin. Absolutely. You don't get to vote them into power and then wash your hands of the consequences, Pontius.

---

What if a born again Christian was voting for Republicans and then starts voting for Democrats? Does he lose his salvation? If he then starts voting Republican does he regain his salvation?

---

You aren't really born again if you're knowingly committing sin. We know them by their fruits.

---

Was he saved when he was voting Republican the first time (before he started voting Democrat)?

---

Is an ex con who found Jesus in prison and was born again still saved if he goes on a killing spree after being released?

---

Depends on his heart

---

Did you know scripture tells us we can know a man's heart by his work and fruits?

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

1 John 1:6-7

If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 Peter 1:16

...since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."

2 Peter 2:1-3

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

1 John 3:4-10

Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

---

Gal 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

---

Now you're attacking JR's beliefs? Because he says heaven can be attained by other religions and by atheists.

Wangchung said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

This thread really makes Goldwater's quotes about mixing religion and politics sound prescient.

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise."

"There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me ... that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are?"

That last part in bold is how a lot of people increasingly feel, especially after watching a bunch of "christians" support such obviously ungodly leaders and look down on others for not doing the same.

---

"I'm frankly sick and tired of the bible telling me ... that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are?" FIFY. Sorry you're upset that Christianity refuses to change according to the popular sentiments of the day.

---

The difference is the Bible is a love letter towards a human seeking a personal connection with God. The United States government is not an eternal religion with law and tenet set in stone, it is an ever changing mechanism that we hope allows many of different faiths to live together. To think that the government's job is to parrot what the Bible says about right and wrong... the conservatives truly brain wash like Champs.

---

So basically you're against murder laws. Got it. It must be very oppressive living under such burdensome laws based on religious texts...

---

Oh right its only Christians that don't want murder i forgot everyone else loves it.

---

It's okay, all those other religions are just as valid as Christianity! The Bible is just a love note tucked into our lunchbox from God, not instructions on how to live! It's merely suggestions, so live free and do whatever makes you feel good! Mickey Mou...I mean Jesus says everything is good and that sin is just a brainwashing concept that only Conservatives promote as a means to control people! It's right there in the Gospels of Madeupbull****, chapter 2 ver 1!

---

So Dr. Wang...Do you believe, that people who do not identify as "Christian" are all relegated to Hell? Do you believe that "Christians" have it ALL right and others do not?

---

I'm an actual Christian, not just one that identifies as Christian when it's socially advantageous, so I believe the way to heaven is through Christ alone. I realize that might offend your "Christian when convenient" belief system but it seems a lot about actual Christianity offends you.

---

No, I'm Christian, but I'm fairly sure we don't have all the answers. You didn't answer the question. Do you believe that other huge religions in this world's followers are destined to "HELL"?

---

You come across as agnostic. Other than Christianity, what gods have you chosen to put before the God of Jesus as a way to heaven? What non-Christian religious figures will you see in heaven next to Jesus?

---

None, I'm certainly not agnostic. Again, you didn't answer the question. Let me guess, you an are young, white and Baptist. Please answer the question.

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

This thread really makes Goldwater's quotes about mixing religion and politics sound prescient.

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise."

"There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me ... that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are?"

That last part in bold is how a lot of people increasingly feel, especially after watching a bunch of "christians" support such obviously ungodly leaders and look down on others for not doing the same.

---

"I'm frankly sick and tired of the bible telling me ... that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are?" FIFY. Sorry you're upset that Christianity refuses to change according to the popular sentiments of the day.

---

The difference is the Bible is a love letter towards a human seeking a personal connection with God. The United States government is not an eternal religion with law and tenet set in stone, it is an ever changing mechanism that we hope allows many of different faiths to live together. To think that the government's job is to parrot what the Bible says about right and wrong... the conservatives truly brain wash like Champs.

---

So basically you're against murder laws. Got it. It must be very oppressive living under such burdensome laws based on religious texts...

---

Oh right its only Christians that don't want murder i forgot everyone else loves it.

---

It's okay, all those other religions are just as valid as Christianity! The Bible is just a love note tucked into our lunchbox from God, not instructions on how to live! It's merely suggestions, so live free and do whatever makes you feel good! Mickey Mou...I mean Jesus says everything is good and that sin is just a brainwashing concept that only Conservatives promote as a means to control people! It's right there in the Gospels of Madeupbull****, chapter 2 ver 1!

---

So Dr. Wang...Do you believe, that people who do not identify as "Christian" are all relegated to Hell? Do you believe that "Christians" have it ALL right and others do not?

---

I'm an actual Christian, not just one that identifies as Christian when it's socially advantageous, so I believe the way to heaven is through Christ alone. I realize that might offend your "Christian when convenient" belief system but it seems a lot about actual Christianity offends you.

---

No, I'm Christian, but I'm fairly sure we don't have all the answers. You didn't answer the question. Do you believe that other huge religions in this world's followers are destined to "HELL"?

---

You come across as agnostic. Other than Christianity, what gods have you chosen to put before the God of Jesus as a way to heaven? What non-Christian religious figures will you see in heaven next to Jesus?

---

None, I'm certainly not agnostic. Again, you didn't answer the question. Let me guess, you an are young, white and Baptist. Please answer the question.

---

None?!? How can Christianity not have all the answers if no other religions can get to heaven? You're contradicting yourself.

That's the second time you've tried to blame the white skin tone in this conversation for positions you disagree with. Do you have any idea at all how stupid that makes you appear?

Wangchung said:

---

That's the second time you've tried to blame the white skin tone in this conversation for positions you disagree with. Do you have any idea at all how stupid that makes you appear?

---

3rd time you haven't had the balls to answer my questions. I hope you are better than that. The 2 questions are 1) Is anyone who is no "Christian" retired to an afterlife in HELL? 2). are you young, white and Baptist? There is a reason I asked if you were white and Baptist. It is a microcosm. Me, I grew up Baptist and am now a recovering Baptist (Presbyterian)

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

That's the second time you've tried to blame the white skin tone in this conversation for positions you disagree with. Do you have any idea at all how stupid that makes you appear?

---

3rd time you haven't had the balls to answer my questions. I hope you are better than that. The 2 questions are 1) Is anyone who is no "Christian" retired to an afterlife in HELL? 2). are you young, white and Baptist? There is a reason I asked if you were white and Baptist. It is a microcosm. Me, I grew up Baptist and am now a recovering Baptist (Presbyterian)

---

That makes sense. Presbyterians tend to choose to believe what makes them feel good and ignore the stuff that doesn't. Had an uncle who was a Presbyterian preacher.
I answered your first question twice with my question asking which religions you expected to see in heaven with Jesus and you said none. Unless you think all those non-Christians went to purgatory or Utah after death, you know where they went.
As to your second question, no, I don't think I'll answer you. The melanin in my skin might surprise you, but only an idiot would derive credibility from it either way.

Wangchung said:

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J.R. said:

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Wangchung said:

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That's the second time you've tried to blame the white skin tone in this conversation for positions you disagree with. Do you have any idea at all how stupid that makes you appear?

---

3rd time you haven't had the balls to answer my questions. I hope you are better than that. The 2 questions are 1) Is anyone who is no "Christian" retired to an afterlife in HELL? 2). are you young, white and Baptist? There is a reason I asked if you were white and Baptist. It is a microcosm. Me, I grew up Baptist and am now a recovering Baptist (Presbyterian)

---

That makes sense. Presbyterians tend to choose to believe what makes them feel good and ignore the stuff that doesn't. Had an uncle who was a Presbyterian preacher.
I answered your first question twice with my question asking which religions you expected to see in heaven with Jesus and you said none. Unless you think all those non-Christians went to purgatory or Utah after death, you know where they went.
As to your second question, no, I don't think I'll answer you. The melanin in my skin might surprise you, but only an idiot would derive credibility from it either way.

---

MEOW! yeah, you are!

Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Faith is shown by your actions, not your ability to quote/copy and paste scripture. You can say you believe in Christ but if your actions say you're of this earth rather than merely in it then you're not living with faith. Voting in people who hate Christians and who promote and enable killing humans as healthcare is not living the faith.

---

Where do you guys post the minutes of the local Pharisee meetings?

---

Says the guy pushing the Disney version of Christianity...

---

Nope,
Solo Cristo
Solo Gratia
Solo Scriptura

(look it up)

Can socialists and communists get to heaven?

---

If they have recognized/stopped their sins and asked forgiveness, like any of us, then of course.

---

but not Democrats, communists, or socialists
What about Martin Luther & Huss?

Solo Cristo
Solo Gratia
Solo Scriptura

---

I know you want to pretend I've said democrats cannot ever attain salvation because what I'm actually saying is biblically irrefutable,

---

I keep asking the question, but you won't answer. Let's try again.
Can Democrats be Bible believing Christians?

Essentials of the faith:
The deity of Christ. Jesus is God.
Salvation by grace.
Salvation through Jesus Christ alone.
The resurrection of Christ.

Nothing about which candidate you vote for

---

But you don't believe in any of those things if you vote against your faith.
"Jesus is God!"
Oh? Then why don't you follow the Christian faith when voting? "Cuz salvation through Christ!"
Yes, but if you're not living according to Christ's teachings how can you say you actually have faith in those teachings? "Salvation by grace!"
Okay, so you're saying your actions are disconnected from your faith? Do you think God will buy that load of crap from you on judgement day?
"Salvation through Jesus Christ alone! The resurrection of Christ!"
Okay but you're not answering me, you're just repeating yourself and ignoring the fact that the Bible very clearly says faith without acts is dead.
"Solo Cristo!
Solo Gratia!
Solo Scriptura!"
Good talk. Thanks for participating.

---

i keep asking the question, but you won't answer. Let's try again.

Can Democrats be Bible believing Christians?
What about a tax collector and a prostitute?

---

One cannot continue to choose to sin and call themselves a Christian. If you're actively voting for Democrats then no, your empowerment of anti-God, baby killing legislators is the antithesis of your purported faith. If you don't act according to the Christian faith then by definition you are not a bible believing Christian. As has been stated repeatedly in this thread, you CAN be a FORMER democrat and be saved. Once you stop committing the sin you can receive salvation. If you're still committing the sin while asking forgiveness it's obvious you aren't truly repentant. Well, obvious to everyone but you. John 8:11

---

Thank you for answering the question.
You're saying that voting for Democrats is the antithesis of the Christian faith and by definition such a person is not a bible believing Christian.
Voting for Democrats is a sin but it is a sin for which you can be forgiven and receive the gift of salvation.

Is this your belief?

---

Voting for people who promote sin as policy is empowering sin. Absolutely. You don't get to vote them into power and then wash your hands of the consequences, Pontius.

---

What if a born again Christian was voting for Republicans and then starts voting for Democrats? Does he lose his salvation? If he then starts voting Republican does he regain his salvation?

---

You aren't really born again if you're knowingly committing sin. We know them by their fruits.

---

Was he saved when he was voting Republican the first time (before he started voting Democrat)?

---

Is an ex con who found Jesus in prison and was born again still saved if he goes on a killing spree after being released?

---

Depends on his heart

---

Did you know scripture tells us we can know a man's heart by his work and fruits?

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

1 John 1:6-7

If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 Peter 1:16

...since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."

2 Peter 2:1-3

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

1 John 3:4-10

Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

---

Gal 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

---

J.R. said:

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Wangchung said:

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J.R. said:

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Wangchung said:

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Porteroso said:

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Wangchung said:

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Porteroso said:

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Wangchung said:

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HuMcK said:

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This thread really makes Goldwater's quotes about mixing religion and politics sound prescient.

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise."

"There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me ... that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are?"

That last part in bold is how a lot of people increasingly feel, especially after watching a bunch of "christians" support such obviously ungodly leaders and look down on others for not doing the same.

---

"I'm frankly sick and tired of the bible telling me ... that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are?" FIFY. Sorry you're upset that Christianity refuses to change according to the popular sentiments of the day.

---

The difference is the Bible is a love letter towards a human seeking a personal connection with God. The United States government is not an eternal religion with law and tenet set in stone, it is an ever changing mechanism that we hope allows many of different faiths to live together. To think that the government's job is to parrot what the Bible says about right and wrong... the conservatives truly brain wash like Champs.

---

So basically you're against murder laws. Got it. It must be very oppressive living under such burdensome laws based on religious texts...

---

Oh right its only Christians that don't want murder i forgot everyone else loves it.

---

It's okay, all those other religions are just as valid as Christianity! The Bible is just a love note tucked into our lunchbox from God, not instructions on how to live! It's merely suggestions, so live free and do whatever makes you feel good! Mickey Mou...I mean Jesus says everything is good and that sin is just a brainwashing concept that only Conservatives promote as a means to control people! It's right there in the Gospels of Madeupbull****, chapter 2 ver 1!

---

So Dr. Wang...Do you believe, that people who do not identify as "Christian" are all relegated to Hell? Do you believe that "Christians" have it ALL right and others do not?

---

I'm an actual Christian, not just one that identifies as Christian when it's socially advantageous, so I believe the way to heaven is through Christ alone. I realize that might offend your "Christian when convenient" belief system but it seems a lot about actual Christianity offends you.

---

No, I'm Christian, but I'm fairly sure we don't have all the answers. You didn't answer the question. Do you believe that other huge religions in this world's followers are destined to "HELL"?

---

Curious as to your thoughts regarding's Christ's words in John 3:16-18, especially verse 18:

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Mothra said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

This thread really makes Goldwater's quotes about mixing religion and politics sound prescient.

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise."

"There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me ... that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are?"

That last part in bold is how a lot of people increasingly feel, especially after watching a bunch of "christians" support such obviously ungodly leaders and look down on others for not doing the same.

---

"I'm frankly sick and tired of the bible telling me ... that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are?" FIFY. Sorry you're upset that Christianity refuses to change according to the popular sentiments of the day.

---

The difference is the Bible is a love letter towards a human seeking a personal connection with God. The United States government is not an eternal religion with law and tenet set in stone, it is an ever changing mechanism that we hope allows many of different faiths to live together. To think that the government's job is to parrot what the Bible says about right and wrong... the conservatives truly brain wash like Champs.

---

So basically you're against murder laws. Got it. It must be very oppressive living under such burdensome laws based on religious texts...

---

Oh right its only Christians that don't want murder i forgot everyone else loves it.

---

It's okay, all those other religions are just as valid as Christianity! The Bible is just a love note tucked into our lunchbox from God, not instructions on how to live! It's merely suggestions, so live free and do whatever makes you feel good! Mickey Mou...I mean Jesus says everything is good and that sin is just a brainwashing concept that only Conservatives promote as a means to control people! It's right there in the Gospels of Madeupbull****, chapter 2 ver 1!

---

So Dr. Wang...Do you believe, that people who do not identify as "Christian" are all relegated to Hell? Do you believe that "Christians" have it ALL right and others do not?

---

I'm an actual Christian, not just one that identifies as Christian when it's socially advantageous, so I believe the way to heaven is through Christ alone. I realize that might offend your "Christian when convenient" belief system but it seems a lot about actual Christianity offends you.

---

No, I'm Christian, but I'm fairly sure we don't have all the answers. You didn't answer the question. Do you believe that other huge religions in this world's followers are destined to "HELL"?

---

Curious as to your thoughts regarding's Christ's words in John 3:16-18, especially verse 18:

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

---

Careful, you sound like a white.

Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Faith is shown by your actions, not your ability to quote/copy and paste scripture. You can say you believe in Christ but if your actions say you're of this earth rather than merely in it then you're not living with faith. Voting in people who hate Christians and who promote and enable killing humans as healthcare is not living the faith.

---

Where do you guys post the minutes of the local Pharisee meetings?

---

Says the guy pushing the Disney version of Christianity...

---

Nope,
Solo Cristo
Solo Gratia
Solo Scriptura

(look it up)

Can socialists and communists get to heaven?

---

If they have recognized/stopped their sins and asked forgiveness, like any of us, then of course.

---

but not Democrats, communists, or socialists
What about Martin Luther & Huss?

Solo Cristo
Solo Gratia
Solo Scriptura

---

I know you want to pretend I've said democrats cannot ever attain salvation because what I'm actually saying is biblically irrefutable,

---

I keep asking the question, but you won't answer. Let's try again.
Can Democrats be Bible believing Christians?

Essentials of the faith:
The deity of Christ. Jesus is God.
Salvation by grace.
Salvation through Jesus Christ alone.
The resurrection of Christ.

Nothing about which candidate you vote for

---

But you don't believe in any of those things if you vote against your faith.
"Jesus is God!"
Oh? Then why don't you follow the Christian faith when voting? "Cuz salvation through Christ!"
Yes, but if you're not living according to Christ's teachings how can you say you actually have faith in those teachings? "Salvation by grace!"
Okay, so you're saying your actions are disconnected from your faith? Do you think God will buy that load of crap from you on judgement day?
"Salvation through Jesus Christ alone! The resurrection of Christ!"
Okay but you're not answering me, you're just repeating yourself and ignoring the fact that the Bible very clearly says faith without acts is dead.
"Solo Cristo!
Solo Gratia!
Solo Scriptura!"
Good talk. Thanks for participating.

---

i keep asking the question, but you won't answer. Let's try again.

Can Democrats be Bible believing Christians?
What about a tax collector and a prostitute?

---

One cannot continue to choose to sin and call themselves a Christian. If you're actively voting for Democrats then no, your empowerment of anti-God, baby killing legislators is the antithesis of your purported faith. If you don't act according to the Christian faith then by definition you are not a bible believing Christian. As has been stated repeatedly in this thread, you CAN be a FORMER democrat and be saved. Once you stop committing the sin you can receive salvation. If you're still committing the sin while asking forgiveness it's obvious you aren't truly repentant. Well, obvious to everyone but you. John 8:11

---

Thank you for answering the question.
You're saying that voting for Democrats is the antithesis of the Christian faith and by definition such a person is not a bible believing Christian.
Voting for Democrats is a sin but it is a sin for which you can be forgiven and receive the gift of salvation.

Is this your belief?

---

Voting for people who promote sin as policy is empowering sin. Absolutely. You don't get to vote them into power and then wash your hands of the consequences, Pontius.

---

What if a born again Christian was voting for Republicans and then starts voting for Democrats? Does he lose his salvation? If he then starts voting Republican does he regain his salvation?

---

You aren't really born again if you're knowingly committing sin. We know them by their fruits.

---

Was he saved when he was voting Republican the first time (before he started voting Democrat)?

---

Is an ex con who found Jesus in prison and was born again still saved if he goes on a killing spree after being released?

---

Depends on his heart

---

Did you know scripture tells us we can know a man's heart by his work and fruits?

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

1 John 1:6-7

If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 Peter 1:16

...since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."

2 Peter 2:1-3

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

1 John 3:4-10

Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

---

Gal 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

---

---

You are preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate

Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Faith is shown by your actions, not your ability to quote/copy and paste scripture. You can say you believe in Christ but if your actions say you're of this earth rather than merely in it then you're not living with faith. Voting in people who hate Christians and who promote and enable killing humans as healthcare is not living the faith.

---

Where do you guys post the minutes of the local Pharisee meetings?

---

Says the guy pushing the Disney version of Christianity...

---

Nope,
Solo Cristo
Solo Gratia
Solo Scriptura

(look it up)

Can socialists and communists get to heaven?

---

If they have recognized/stopped their sins and asked forgiveness, like any of us, then of course.

---

but not Democrats, communists, or socialists
What about Martin Luther & Huss?

Solo Cristo
Solo Gratia
Solo Scriptura

---

I know you want to pretend I've said democrats cannot ever attain salvation because what I'm actually saying is biblically irrefutable,

---

I keep asking the question, but you won't answer. Let's try again.
Can Democrats be Bible believing Christians?

Essentials of the faith:
The deity of Christ. Jesus is God.
Salvation by grace.
Salvation through Jesus Christ alone.
The resurrection of Christ.

Nothing about which candidate you vote for

---

But you don't believe in any of those things if you vote against your faith.
"Jesus is God!"
Oh? Then why don't you follow the Christian faith when voting? "Cuz salvation through Christ!"
Yes, but if you're not living according to Christ's teachings how can you say you actually have faith in those teachings? "Salvation by grace!"
Okay, so you're saying your actions are disconnected from your faith? Do you think God will buy that load of crap from you on judgement day?
"Salvation through Jesus Christ alone! The resurrection of Christ!"
Okay but you're not answering me, you're just repeating yourself and ignoring the fact that the Bible very clearly says faith without acts is dead.
"Solo Cristo!
Solo Gratia!
Solo Scriptura!"
Good talk. Thanks for participating.

---

i keep asking the question, but you won't answer. Let's try again.

Can Democrats be Bible believing Christians?
What about a tax collector and a prostitute?

---

One cannot continue to choose to sin and call themselves a Christian. If you're actively voting for Democrats then no, your empowerment of anti-God, baby killing legislators is the antithesis of your purported faith. If you don't act according to the Christian faith then by definition you are not a bible believing Christian. As has been stated repeatedly in this thread, you CAN be a FORMER democrat and be saved. Once you stop committing the sin you can receive salvation. If you're still committing the sin while asking forgiveness it's obvious you aren't truly repentant. Well, obvious to everyone but you. John 8:11

---

Thank you for answering the question.
You're saying that voting for Democrats is the antithesis of the Christian faith and by definition such a person is not a bible believing Christian.
Voting for Democrats is a sin but it is a sin for which you can be forgiven and receive the gift of salvation.

Is this your belief?

---

Voting for people who promote sin as policy is empowering sin. Absolutely. You don't get to vote them into power and then wash your hands of the consequences, Pontius.

---

What if a born again Christian was voting for Republicans and then starts voting for Democrats? Does he lose his salvation? If he then starts voting Republican does he regain his salvation?

---

You aren't really born again if you're knowingly committing sin. We know them by their fruits.

---

Was he saved when he was voting Republican the first time (before he started voting Democrat)?

---

Is an ex con who found Jesus in prison and was born again still saved if he goes on a killing spree after being released?

---

Depends on his heart

---

Did you know scripture tells us we can know a man's heart by his work and fruits?

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

1 John 1:6-7

If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 Peter 1:16

...since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."

2 Peter 2:1-3

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

1 John 3:4-10

Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

---

Gal 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

---

---

You are preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate

---

You're almost there. Gospel. Faith + vote for the party who doesn't make killing millions of humans national policy etc

Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Faith is shown by your actions, not your ability to quote/copy and paste scripture. You can say you believe in Christ but if your actions say you're of this earth rather than merely in it then you're not living with faith. Voting in people who hate Christians and who promote and enable killing humans as healthcare is not living the faith.

---

Where do you guys post the minutes of the local Pharisee meetings?

---

Says the guy pushing the Disney version of Christianity...

---

Nope,
Solo Cristo
Solo Gratia
Solo Scriptura

(look it up)

Can socialists and communists get to heaven?

---

If they have recognized/stopped their sins and asked forgiveness, like any of us, then of course.

---

but not Democrats, communists, or socialists
What about Martin Luther & Huss?

Solo Cristo
Solo Gratia
Solo Scriptura

---

I know you want to pretend I've said democrats cannot ever attain salvation because what I'm actually saying is biblically irrefutable,

---

I keep asking the question, but you won't answer. Let's try again.
Can Democrats be Bible believing Christians?

Essentials of the faith:
The deity of Christ. Jesus is God.
Salvation by grace.
Salvation through Jesus Christ alone.
The resurrection of Christ.

Nothing about which candidate you vote for

---

But you don't believe in any of those things if you vote against your faith.
"Jesus is God!"
Oh? Then why don't you follow the Christian faith when voting? "Cuz salvation through Christ!"
Yes, but if you're not living according to Christ's teachings how can you say you actually have faith in those teachings? "Salvation by grace!"
Okay, so you're saying your actions are disconnected from your faith? Do you think God will buy that load of crap from you on judgement day?
"Salvation through Jesus Christ alone! The resurrection of Christ!"
Okay but you're not answering me, you're just repeating yourself and ignoring the fact that the Bible very clearly says faith without acts is dead.
"Solo Cristo!
Solo Gratia!
Solo Scriptura!"
Good talk. Thanks for participating.

---

i keep asking the question, but you won't answer. Let's try again.

Can Democrats be Bible believing Christians?
What about a tax collector and a prostitute?

---

One cannot continue to choose to sin and call themselves a Christian. If you're actively voting for Democrats then no, your empowerment of anti-God, baby killing legislators is the antithesis of your purported faith. If you don't act according to the Christian faith then by definition you are not a bible believing Christian. As has been stated repeatedly in this thread, you CAN be a FORMER democrat and be saved. Once you stop committing the sin you can receive salvation. If you're still committing the sin while asking forgiveness it's obvious you aren't truly repentant. Well, obvious to everyone but you. John 8:11

---

Thank you for answering the question.
You're saying that voting for Democrats is the antithesis of the Christian faith and by definition such a person is not a bible believing Christian.
Voting for Democrats is a sin but it is a sin for which you can be forgiven and receive the gift of salvation.

Is this your belief?

---

Voting for people who promote sin as policy is empowering sin. Absolutely. You don't get to vote them into power and then wash your hands of the consequences, Pontius.

---

What if a born again Christian was voting for Republicans and then starts voting for Democrats? Does he lose his salvation? If he then starts voting Republican does he regain his salvation?

---

You aren't really born again if you're knowingly committing sin. We know them by their fruits.

---

Was he saved when he was voting Republican the first time (before he started voting Democrat)?

---

Is an ex con who found Jesus in prison and was born again still saved if he goes on a killing spree after being released?

---

Depends on his heart

---

Did you know scripture tells us we can know a man's heart by his work and fruits?

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

1 John 1:6-7

If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 Peter 1:16

...since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."

2 Peter 2:1-3

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

1 John 3:4-10

Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

---

Gal 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

---

---

You are preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate

---

You're almost there. Gospel. Faith + vote for the party who doesn't make killing millions of humans national policy etc

---

That's Faith + works
You're preaching another Gospel

Great thread.
Who needs Jesus when there are people here that think they know everything and have no problem passing judgement as if they are on a throne.

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Faith is shown by your actions, not your ability to quote/copy and paste scripture. You can say you believe in Christ but if your actions say you're of this earth rather than merely in it then you're not living with faith. Voting in people who hate Christians and who promote and enable killing humans as healthcare is not living the faith.

---

Where do you guys post the minutes of the local Pharisee meetings?

---

Says the guy pushing the Disney version of Christianity...

---

Nope,
Solo Cristo
Solo Gratia
Solo Scriptura

(look it up)

Can socialists and communists get to heaven?

---

If they have recognized/stopped their sins and asked forgiveness, like any of us, then of course.

---

but not Democrats, communists, or socialists
What about Martin Luther & Huss?

Solo Cristo
Solo Gratia
Solo Scriptura

---

I know you want to pretend I've said democrats cannot ever attain salvation because what I'm actually saying is biblically irrefutable,

---

I keep asking the question, but you won't answer. Let's try again.
Can Democrats be Bible believing Christians?

Essentials of the faith:
The deity of Christ. Jesus is God.
Salvation by grace.
Salvation through Jesus Christ alone.
The resurrection of Christ.

Nothing about which candidate you vote for

---

But you don't believe in any of those things if you vote against your faith.
"Jesus is God!"
Oh? Then why don't you follow the Christian faith when voting? "Cuz salvation through Christ!"
Yes, but if you're not living according to Christ's teachings how can you say you actually have faith in those teachings? "Salvation by grace!"
Okay, so you're saying your actions are disconnected from your faith? Do you think God will buy that load of crap from you on judgement day?
"Salvation through Jesus Christ alone! The resurrection of Christ!"
Okay but you're not answering me, you're just repeating yourself and ignoring the fact that the Bible very clearly says faith without acts is dead.
"Solo Cristo!
Solo Gratia!
Solo Scriptura!"
Good talk. Thanks for participating.

---

i keep asking the question, but you won't answer. Let's try again.

Can Democrats be Bible believing Christians?
What about a tax collector and a prostitute?

---

One cannot continue to choose to sin and call themselves a Christian. If you're actively voting for Democrats then no, your empowerment of anti-God, baby killing legislators is the antithesis of your purported faith. If you don't act according to the Christian faith then by definition you are not a bible believing Christian. As has been stated repeatedly in this thread, you CAN be a FORMER democrat and be saved. Once you stop committing the sin you can receive salvation. If you're still committing the sin while asking forgiveness it's obvious you aren't truly repentant. Well, obvious to everyone but you. John 8:11

---

Thank you for answering the question.
You're saying that voting for Democrats is the antithesis of the Christian faith and by definition such a person is not a bible believing Christian.
Voting for Democrats is a sin but it is a sin for which you can be forgiven and receive the gift of salvation.

Is this your belief?

---

Voting for people who promote sin as policy is empowering sin. Absolutely. You don't get to vote them into power and then wash your hands of the consequences, Pontius.

---

What if a born again Christian was voting for Republicans and then starts voting for Democrats? Does he lose his salvation? If he then starts voting Republican does he regain his salvation?

---

You aren't really born again if you're knowingly committing sin. We know them by their fruits.

---

Was he saved when he was voting Republican the first time (before he started voting Democrat)?

---

Is an ex con who found Jesus in prison and was born again still saved if he goes on a killing spree after being released?

---

Depends on his heart

---

Did you know scripture tells us we can know a man's heart by his work and fruits?

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

1 John 1:6-7

If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 Peter 1:16

...since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."

2 Peter 2:1-3

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

1 John 3:4-10

Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

---

Gal 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

---

---

You are preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate

---

It appears to me you're purposely mischaracterizing my position at this point. What you just stated above is a bald-faced lie. I've never said or suggested anything of the sort. In fact, I've told you on numerous occasions that how you vote does not make you a Christian.

Please do not purposely misrepresent my position.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Great thread.
Who needs Jesus when there are people here that think they know everything and have no problem passing judgement as if they are on a throne.

---

Predictable response from the poster who's triggered by any suggestion that there are moral implications to the way one thinks or acts.

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Faith is shown by your actions, not your ability to quote/copy and paste scripture. You can say you believe in Christ but if your actions say you're of this earth rather than merely in it then you're not living with faith. Voting in people who hate Christians and who promote and enable killing humans as healthcare is not living the faith.

---

Where do you guys post the minutes of the local Pharisee meetings?

---

Says the guy pushing the Disney version of Christianity...

---

Nope,
Solo Cristo
Solo Gratia
Solo Scriptura

(look it up)

Can socialists and communists get to heaven?

---

If they have recognized/stopped their sins and asked forgiveness, like any of us, then of course.

---

but not Democrats, communists, or socialists
What about Martin Luther & Huss?

Solo Cristo
Solo Gratia
Solo Scriptura

---

I know you want to pretend I've said democrats cannot ever attain salvation because what I'm actually saying is biblically irrefutable,

---

I keep asking the question, but you won't answer. Let's try again.
Can Democrats be Bible believing Christians?

Essentials of the faith:
The deity of Christ. Jesus is God.
Salvation by grace.
Salvation through Jesus Christ alone.
The resurrection of Christ.

Nothing about which candidate you vote for

---

But you don't believe in any of those things if you vote against your faith.
"Jesus is God!"
Oh? Then why don't you follow the Christian faith when voting? "Cuz salvation through Christ!"
Yes, but if you're not living according to Christ's teachings how can you say you actually have faith in those teachings? "Salvation by grace!"
Okay, so you're saying your actions are disconnected from your faith? Do you think God will buy that load of crap from you on judgement day?
"Salvation through Jesus Christ alone! The resurrection of Christ!"
Okay but you're not answering me, you're just repeating yourself and ignoring the fact that the Bible very clearly says faith without acts is dead.
"Solo Cristo!
Solo Gratia!
Solo Scriptura!"
Good talk. Thanks for participating.

---

i keep asking the question, but you won't answer. Let's try again.

Can Democrats be Bible believing Christians?
What about a tax collector and a prostitute?

---

One cannot continue to choose to sin and call themselves a Christian. If you're actively voting for Democrats then no, your empowerment of anti-God, baby killing legislators is the antithesis of your purported faith. If you don't act according to the Christian faith then by definition you are not a bible believing Christian. As has been stated repeatedly in this thread, you CAN be a FORMER democrat and be saved. Once you stop committing the sin you can receive salvation. If you're still committing the sin while asking forgiveness it's obvious you aren't truly repentant. Well, obvious to everyone but you. John 8:11

---

Thank you for answering the question.
You're saying that voting for Democrats is the antithesis of the Christian faith and by definition such a person is not a bible believing Christian.
Voting for Democrats is a sin but it is a sin for which you can be forgiven and receive the gift of salvation.

Is this your belief?

---

Voting for people who promote sin as policy is empowering sin. Absolutely. You don't get to vote them into power and then wash your hands of the consequences, Pontius.

---

What if a born again Christian was voting for Republicans and then starts voting for Democrats? Does he lose his salvation? If he then starts voting Republican does he regain his salvation?

---

You aren't really born again if you're knowingly committing sin. We know them by their fruits.

---

Was he saved when he was voting Republican the first time (before he started voting Democrat)?

---

Is an ex con who found Jesus in prison and was born again still saved if he goes on a killing spree after being released?

---

Depends on his heart

---

Did you know scripture tells us we can know a man's heart by his work and fruits?

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

1 John 1:6-7

If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 Peter 1:16

...since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."

2 Peter 2:1-3

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

1 John 3:4-10

Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

---

Gal 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

---

---

You are preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate

---

You're almost there. Gospel. Faith + vote for the party who doesn't make killing millions of humans national policy etc

---

This is a quote from Mothra on another thread.
" How one votes does not determine one's salvation."

Would you and Mothra resolve your differences??

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Faith is shown by your actions, not your ability to quote/copy and paste scripture. You can say you believe in Christ but if your actions say you're of this earth rather than merely in it then you're not living with faith. Voting in people who hate Christians and who promote and enable killing humans as healthcare is not living the faith.

---

Where do you guys post the minutes of the local Pharisee meetings?

---

Says the guy pushing the Disney version of Christianity...

---

Nope,
Solo Cristo
Solo Gratia
Solo Scriptura

(look it up)

Can socialists and communists get to heaven?

---

If they have recognized/stopped their sins and asked forgiveness, like any of us, then of course.

---

but not Democrats, communists, or socialists
What about Martin Luther & Huss?

Solo Cristo
Solo Gratia
Solo Scriptura

---

I know you want to pretend I've said democrats cannot ever attain salvation because what I'm actually saying is biblically irrefutable,

---

I keep asking the question, but you won't answer. Let's try again.
Can Democrats be Bible believing Christians?

Essentials of the faith:
The deity of Christ. Jesus is God.
Salvation by grace.
Salvation through Jesus Christ alone.
The resurrection of Christ.

Nothing about which candidate you vote for

---

But you don't believe in any of those things if you vote against your faith.
"Jesus is God!"
Oh? Then why don't you follow the Christian faith when voting? "Cuz salvation through Christ!"
Yes, but if you're not living according to Christ's teachings how can you say you actually have faith in those teachings? "Salvation by grace!"
Okay, so you're saying your actions are disconnected from your faith? Do you think God will buy that load of crap from you on judgement day?
"Salvation through Jesus Christ alone! The resurrection of Christ!"
Okay but you're not answering me, you're just repeating yourself and ignoring the fact that the Bible very clearly says faith without acts is dead.
"Solo Cristo!
Solo Gratia!
Solo Scriptura!"
Good talk. Thanks for participating.

---

i keep asking the question, but you won't answer. Let's try again.

Can Democrats be Bible believing Christians?
What about a tax collector and a prostitute?

---

One cannot continue to choose to sin and call themselves a Christian. If you're actively voting for Democrats then no, your empowerment of anti-God, baby killing legislators is the antithesis of your purported faith. If you don't act according to the Christian faith then by definition you are not a bible believing Christian. As has been stated repeatedly in this thread, you CAN be a FORMER democrat and be saved. Once you stop committing the sin you can receive salvation. If you're still committing the sin while asking forgiveness it's obvious you aren't truly repentant. Well, obvious to everyone but you. John 8:11

---

Thank you for answering the question.
You're saying that voting for Democrats is the antithesis of the Christian faith and by definition such a person is not a bible believing Christian.
Voting for Democrats is a sin but it is a sin for which you can be forgiven and receive the gift of salvation.

Is this your belief?

---

Voting for people who promote sin as policy is empowering sin. Absolutely. You don't get to vote them into power and then wash your hands of the consequences, Pontius.

---

What if a born again Christian was voting for Republicans and then starts voting for Democrats? Does he lose his salvation? If he then starts voting Republican does he regain his salvation?

---

You aren't really born again if you're knowingly committing sin. We know them by their fruits.

---

Was he saved when he was voting Republican the first time (before he started voting Democrat)?

---

Is an ex con who found Jesus in prison and was born again still saved if he goes on a killing spree after being released?

---

Depends on his heart

---

Did you know scripture tells us we can know a man's heart by his work and fruits?

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

1 John 1:6-7

If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 Peter 1:16

...since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."

2 Peter 2:1-3

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

1 John 3:4-10

Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

---

Gal 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

---

---

You are preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate

---

You're almost there. Gospel. Faith + vote for the party who doesn't make killing millions of humans national policy etc

---

This is a quote from Mothra on another thread.
" How one votes does not determine one's salvation."

Would you and Mothra resolve your differences??

---

One would have to know whether the person who voted to empower the slaughter of tens of millions of humans repented afterwards/changed their behavior. Though LIQR disagrees, one could also refrain from voting and be considered Christian.

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

You seem to be saying "don't vote democrat" translates to "you MUST vote how I say!" and that's not what anyone has said here. You either don't understand what voting is and how it empowers
policy or you don't understand Christian doctrine on salvation. Maybe both.

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

If you understood that to mean Faith + vote is how one is saved, there is either a comprehension problem or you're being obtuse. I never said or suggested that your vote in any way plays a role in getting you to heaven. Christians can err and commit sin and still be Christians. I've been clear about this from the 2nd page of this thread.

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

Again, not controversial subjects at all, and one that I think the vast majority of Christendom would agree with.

Wangchung said:

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Porteroso said:

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Wangchung said:

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Porteroso said:

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Wangchung said:

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HuMcK said:

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This thread really makes Goldwater's quotes about mixing religion and politics sound prescient.

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise."

"There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me ... that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are?"

That last part in bold is how a lot of people increasingly feel, especially after watching a bunch of "christians" support such obviously ungodly leaders and look down on others for not doing the same.

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"I'm frankly sick and tired of the bible telling me ... that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are?" FIFY. Sorry you're upset that Christianity refuses to change according to the popular sentiments of the day.

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The difference is the Bible is a love letter towards a human seeking a personal connection with God. The United States government is not an eternal religion with law and tenet set in stone, it is an ever changing mechanism that we hope allows many of different faiths to live together. To think that the government's job is to parrot what the Bible says about right and wrong... the conservatives truly brain wash like Champs.

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So basically you're against murder laws. Got it. It must be very oppressive living under such burdensome laws based on religious texts...

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Oh right its only Christians that don't want murder i forgot everyone else loves it.

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It's okay, all those other religions are just as valid as Christianity! The Bible is just a love note tucked into our lunchbox from God, not instructions on how to live! It's merely suggestions, so live free and do whatever makes you feel good! Mickey Mou...I mean Jesus says everything is good and that sin is just a brainwashing concept that only Conservatives promote as a means to control people! It's right there in the Gospels of Madeupbull****, chapter 2 ver 1!

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The rant of someone who has lost it. The point of the argument being the least of the its.

Porteroso said:

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Wangchung said:

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Porteroso said:

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Wangchung said:

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Porteroso said:

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Wangchung said:

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HuMcK said:

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This thread really makes Goldwater's quotes about mixing religion and politics sound prescient.

"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise."

"There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me ... that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are?"

That last part in bold is how a lot of people increasingly feel, especially after watching a bunch of "christians" support such obviously ungodly leaders and look down on others for not doing the same.

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"I'm frankly sick and tired of the bible telling me ... that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in A, B, C, and D. Just who do they think they are?" FIFY. Sorry you're upset that Christianity refuses to change according to the popular sentiments of the day.

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The difference is the Bible is a love letter towards a human seeking a personal connection with God. The United States government is not an eternal religion with law and tenet set in stone, it is an ever changing mechanism that we hope allows many of different faiths to live together. To think that the government's job is to parrot what the Bible says about right and wrong... the conservatives truly brain wash like Champs.

---

So basically you're against murder laws. Got it. It must be very oppressive living under such burdensome laws based on religious texts...

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Oh right its only Christians that don't want murder i forgot everyone else loves it.

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It's okay, all those other religions are just as valid as Christianity! The Bible is just a love note tucked into our lunchbox from God, not instructions on how to live! It's merely suggestions, so live free and do whatever makes you feel good! Mickey Mou...I mean Jesus says everything is good and that sin is just a brainwashing concept that only Conservatives promote as a means to control people! It's right there in the Gospels of Madeupbull****, chapter 2 ver 1!

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The rant of someone who has lost it. The point of the argument being the least of the its.

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That's what's known as hitting you square between the eyes with your own opinions.

What re the more impliications of not voting like you do? You have told me over and over not voting for Trump is the same as voting for Biden.

So i can vote for republican and go to Heaven.

Vote democrat and go to hell.

Where does voting third party (libertarian) get me? Limbo? purgatory?

Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

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Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

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I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

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And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

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Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

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And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

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correct, it may be.. or may not be a sign that you have no faith.

Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

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And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

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Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

The error you continue to make is assuming that means one must vote a certain way to be Christian. That's not what I said or suggested. And once again, that gets the order backwards (as you have repeatedly done).

So, yes, you've either misinterpreted what I said, or are mischaracterizing what I said. Moreover, none of your last post was a "word for word" quote of anything I've said on this thread. It wasn't even an accurate summary of my comments.

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

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What re the more impliications of not voting like you do? You have told me over and over not voting for Trump is the same as voting for Biden.

So i can vote for republican and go to Heaven.

Vote democrat and go to hell.

Where does voting third party (libertarian) get me? Limbo? purgatory?

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You need to try a little harder with your strawmen. These aren't even good by your standards.

Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Hold on a second. Am I "preaching another Gospel. Faith + vote for your preferred candidate" or not?

You seem to be all over the place.

---

Yes you are. You say that if I vote wrong I need to do some self examination because I may not really be saved. IOW, faith +vote right. But if I vote right no self examination necessary
Below is a quote from your post from 2-3 pages ago:

"The idea that Christians can do and say anything they want (and vote how they want) because they are saved sounds eerily similar to the Gnostics, who believed that salvation was a mere get-out-of-jail free card. They believed how you live doesn't matter. And that's just not what Christ says in the Gospels.

I would respectfully submit that if you believe you are saved, but continue to make poor choices and decisions that you know to be contrary to your purported faith, you might need to do some self-examination, and ask yourself have you truly accepted Christ's grace. Again, how we vote doesn't affect our eternal security, but it might be a sign of where we are in our relationship with Christ, if at all."

---

I've said that how one behaves may be a sign of where they are in their faith, or if they even have a faith. Again, that is not a controversial subject, and one supported by the verses quoted above. Unfortunately, you seem to continue to either confuse or purposefully misinterpret those comments to allege that I am saying how one votes is a prerequisite to salvation. As I have tried to tell you, you're getting the order confused. Faith precedes both fruit and works. And fruit and works are a sign of faith.

---

And if my behavior includes voting Democrat, it may be a sign that I have no faith. And if I have no faith I'm not a Christian.

I'm not misinterpreting what you say, I'm quoting you word for word.

---

Indeed, if one votes for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, one may not be a Christian, may be immature in his or her faith, or may be misguided, subscribing to a warped and erroneous view of Christianity. That is elementary and basic Christian theology.

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If I vote for a Democrat, am I voting for policies that are the antithesis of Christianity, and I may not be a Christian?