The future automation of the workforce

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LIB,MR BEARS
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9:13p, 7/1/25
Will the AI know when to dig a bit deeper or ask the question a second time.

My FIL will happily lie to the doctor to avoid a hospital stay. I'd like to think the doctor suspects when he's being lied to and ask a second/third time on some questions.

Elderly parents and in-laws are frustrating. I know many of you know this better than I.
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boognish_bear
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In reply to cowboycwr • 10:15p, 7/1/25
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


Given how often doctors, nurses and PAs are wrong on even minor issues I wonder how effective it would be at diagnosing those minor things at as well.

I for one would not mind a nurse gathering vitals and information, me telling the AI computer symptoms, what's wrong, etc. and it telling me what is wrong.

At least with the AI you would know it is listening and not thinking about other things, tired because it is the end of the shift/double shift, worried about home life or any of the 100 other thing that would make a human distracted.

I have experienced way too many of those above recently with family where it felt like I had to practically force the medical team to slow down, listen and check things again.



Agree with this. I've been to too many doctors where I felt they weren't really listening to me at all and were going through the motions.

If i had some real concerning medical issue i wouldn't want to have a diagnosis 100% from Ai. I think you still need a doctor in the room...but i would be very open to a blended approach.
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Assassin
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In reply to boognish_bear • 10:25p, 7/1/25
boognish_bear said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


Given how often doctors, nurses and PAs are wrong on even minor issues I wonder how effective it would be at diagnosing those minor things at as well.

I for one would not mind a nurse gathering vitals and information, me telling the AI computer symptoms, what's wrong, etc. and it telling me what is wrong.

At least with the AI you would know it is listening and not thinking about other things, tired because it is the end of the shift/double shift, worried about home life or any of the 100 other thing that would make a human distracted.

I have experienced way too many of those above recently with family where it felt like I had to practically force the medical team to slow down, listen and check things again.



Agree with this. I've been to too many doctors where I felt they weren't really listening to me at all and were going through the motions.

If i had some real concerning medical issue i wouldn't want to have a diagnosis 100% from Ai. I think you still need a doctor in the room...but i would be very open to a blended approach.
What if the two of them disagree? Do you ask for a second AI opinion or a human?
Procrastination is opportunity's assassin
- Victor Kiam
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boognish_bear
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In reply to Assassin • 8:30a, 7/2/25
Assassin said:
boognish_bear said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


Given how often doctors, nurses and PAs are wrong on even minor issues I wonder how effective it would be at diagnosing those minor things at as well.

I for one would not mind a nurse gathering vitals and information, me telling the AI computer symptoms, what's wrong, etc. and it telling me what is wrong.

At least with the AI you would know it is listening and not thinking about other things, tired because it is the end of the shift/double shift, worried about home life or any of the 100 other thing that would make a human distracted.

I have experienced way too many of those above recently with family where it felt like I had to practically force the medical team to slow down, listen and check things again.



Agree with this. I've been to too many doctors where I felt they weren't really listening to me at all and were going through the motions.

If i had some real concerning medical issue i wouldn't want to have a diagnosis 100% from Ai. I think you still need a doctor in the room...but i would be very open to a blended approach.
What if the two of them disagree? Do you ask for a second AI opinion or a human?


I would most likely defer to the human...but would probably go somewhere else for another opinion.
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historian
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In reply to cowboycwr • 8:39a, 7/2/25
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


Given how often doctors, nurses and PAs are wrong on even minor issues I wonder how effective it would be at diagnosing those minor things at as well.

I for one would not mind a nurse gathering vitals and information, me telling the AI computer symptoms, what's wrong, etc. and it telling me what is wrong.

At least with the AI you would know it is listening and not thinking about other things, tired because it is the end of the shift/double shift, worried about home life or any of the 100 other thing that would make a human distracted.

I have experienced way too many of those above recently with family where it felt like I had to practically force the medical team to slow down, listen and check things again.


Those are reasons to reform the health profession to eliminate or mitigate as much as possible those issues. It is not a reason to replace human interaction with computers. The first step is to get the federal govt out of health care. They screw up everything they touch. This has been clear for decades, especially since Obamacare with all the lies and fraud used to pass it and evident in its implementation.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
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boognish_bear
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11:52a, 7/2/25


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cowboycwr
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In reply to boognish_bear • 12:41p, 7/2/25
boognish_bear said:




Wow. They just laid off 7,000 employees at the end of May.
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LIB,MR BEARS
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In reply to cowboycwr • 1:01p, 7/2/25
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:




Wow. They just laid off 7,000 employees at the end of May.


The politics of buggy whips.

Technology is a double edged sword
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cowboycwr
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In reply to boognish_bear • 1:29p, 7/2/25
boognish_bear said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


Given how often doctors, nurses and PAs are wrong on even minor issues I wonder how effective it would be at diagnosing those minor things at as well.

I for one would not mind a nurse gathering vitals and information, me telling the AI computer symptoms, what's wrong, etc. and it telling me what is wrong.

At least with the AI you would know it is listening and not thinking about other things, tired because it is the end of the shift/double shift, worried about home life or any of the 100 other thing that would make a human distracted.

I have experienced way too many of those above recently with family where it felt like I had to practically force the medical team to slow down, listen and check things again.



Agree with this. I've been to too many doctors where I felt they weren't really listening to me at all and were going through the motions.

If i had some real concerning medical issue i wouldn't want to have a diagnosis 100% from Ai. I think you still need a doctor in the room...but i would be very open to a blended approach.


I agree. There are some things I think you need a human for. But when your symptoms appear to be flu, cold, sinus infection, or other similar "common" issues I think an AI could do it just fine.

My youngest son (14 months at the time) had an ear infection, was prescribed meds and after one does within like 2 hours had red spots all over his chest, back, arms and legs. We called the doctor back went in and by then his chest was almost solid red. It was clear it was an allergic reaction but the PA came in, didn't listen to how we were just there that morning, got a prescription, gave him the meds and the red spots started showing up and decided it was something else (HFM) and I had to stop her and ask her to look again, she refused, and I had to point out that HFM is named that because of the rashes that develop in those 3 areas and none of my sons were in those spots.

She thought and agreed. Took him off the meds and in about 12 hours they were gone.

That was just one dose. I worry what would have happened with a second dose.
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cowboycwr
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In reply to historian • 1:33p, 7/2/25
historian said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


Given how often doctors, nurses and PAs are wrong on even minor issues I wonder how effective it would be at diagnosing those minor things at as well.

I for one would not mind a nurse gathering vitals and information, me telling the AI computer symptoms, what's wrong, etc. and it telling me what is wrong.

At least with the AI you would know it is listening and not thinking about other things, tired because it is the end of the shift/double shift, worried about home life or any of the 100 other thing that would make a human distracted.

I have experienced way too many of those above recently with family where it felt like I had to practically force the medical team to slow down, listen and check things again.


Those are reasons to reform the health profession to eliminate or mitigate as much as possible those issues. It is not a reason to replace human interaction with computers. The first step is to get the federal govt out of health care. They screw up everything they touch. This has been clear for decades, especially since Obamacare with all the lies and fraud used to pass it and evident in its implementation.


I have long thought this about healthcare. It needs reforms, not government control. Maybe some government regs to help control things.

There is no reason a medicine should cost 5 times more here than another country.

Or an xray costs 10x more to do at a hospital compared to other facilities (Vet, dentists).

Or the numerous "specialists" that don't do anything. But I know many of those specialists exist because of the large volume of lawsuits that have happened and maybe that is an area we need some government regs on. What people can sue about and what they can't to cut down on liability insurance/ costs passed on to everyone else.
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EatMoreSalmon
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In reply to LIB,MR BEARS • 2:13p, 7/2/25
LIB,MR BEARS said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:




Wow. They just laid off 7,000 employees at the end of May.


The politics of buggy whips.

Technology is a double edged sword
Prograamers' jobs will be the first to go "poof!" Self improving AI is the goal. There will, however need to be AI "doctors" that can fix an AI that is "off course" in learning. Not necessarily "off course" in malicious ways, but "off course" in bad and corrupted data and routines.
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LIB,MR BEARS
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In reply to EatMoreSalmon • 4:39p, 7/2/25
EatMoreSalmon said:
LIB,MR BEARS said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:




Wow. They just laid off 7,000 employees at the end of May.


The politics of buggy whips.

Technology is a double edged sword
Prograamers' jobs will be the first to go "poof!" Self improving AI is the goal. There will, however need to be AI "doctors" that can fix an AI that is "off course" in learning. Not necessarily "off course" in malicious ways, but "off course" in bad and corrupted data and routines.

Those AI doctors will need to have project managers willing to address concerns and apply fixes on projects where a lot of capital is riding.

When the shuttle blew up on launch it was because it was more important to move the project forwards than to have a safe launch.

AI project managers need to have the stones to stand up to CFOs and shareholders.
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Assassin
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In reply to LIB,MR BEARS • 6:11p, 7/2/25
LIB,MR BEARS said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:




Wow. They just laid off 7,000 employees at the end of May.


The politics of buggy whips.

Technology is a double edged sword
Glad I am retired from IT for sure!
Procrastination is opportunity's assassin
- Victor Kiam
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historian
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In reply to cowboycwr • 6:20p, 7/2/25
cowboycwr said:
historian said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


Given how often doctors, nurses and PAs are wrong on even minor issues I wonder how effective it would be at diagnosing those minor things at as well.

I for one would not mind a nurse gathering vitals and information, me telling the AI computer symptoms, what's wrong, etc. and it telling me what is wrong.

At least with the AI you would know it is listening and not thinking about other things, tired because it is the end of the shift/double shift, worried about home life or any of the 100 other thing that would make a human distracted.

I have experienced way too many of those above recently with family where it felt like I had to practically force the medical team to slow down, listen and check things again.


Those are reasons to reform the health profession to eliminate or mitigate as much as possible those issues. It is not a reason to replace human interaction with computers. The first step is to get the federal govt out of health care. They screw up everything they touch. This has been clear for decades, especially since Obamacare with all the lies and fraud used to pass it and evident in its implementation.


I have long thought this about healthcare. It needs reforms, not government control. Maybe some government regs to help control things.

There is no reason a medicine should cost 5 times more here than another country.

Or an xray costs 10x more to do at a hospital compared to other facilities (Vet, dentists).

Or the numerous "specialists" that don't do anything. But I know many of those specialists exist because of the large volume of lawsuits that have happened and maybe that is an area we need some government regs on. What people can sue about and what they can't to cut down on liability insurance/ costs passed on to everyone else.

That can be said god every area of society: government's only role should be minimal regulation to maintain fair competition. Tort reform is also essential.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
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boognish_bear
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7:10p, 7/2/25
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boognish_bear
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6:22p, 7/3/25
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LIB,MR BEARS
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In reply to boognish_bear • 6:27p, 7/3/25
boognish_bear said:


Does this speak to pay or to our lack of quality education in tech fields?
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boognish_bear
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In reply to LIB,MR BEARS • 6:42p, 7/3/25
LIB,MR BEARS said:
boognish_bear said:


Does this speak to pay or to our lack of quality education in tech fields?


If I'm understanding this correctly it's not foreigners being hired for new jobs over Americans....it's Americans being let go and then replaced by foreigners that can be paid less
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cowboycwr
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In reply to boognish_bear • 7:03p, 7/3/25
boognish_bear said:
LIB,MR BEARS said:
boognish_bear said:


Does this speak to pay or to our lack of quality education in tech fields?


If I'm understanding this correctly it's not foreigners being hired for new jobs over Americans....it's Americans being let go and then replaced by foreigners that can be paid less


I also wonder if there is also another layer to it…. The foreigners will go to where the work is, will be in office and not complain…. While the Americans were spread out over the whole country and sort of revolted at going back to the office.

So Microsoft can save money by hiring the foreigners and force them to be in office/ tightly supervised.
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boognish_bear
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8:59p, 7/3/25
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LIB,MR BEARS
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In reply to boognish_bear • 8:59p, 7/3/25
boognish_bear said:
LIB,MR BEARS said:
boognish_bear said:


Does this speak to pay or to our lack of quality education in tech fields?


If I'm understanding this correctly it's not foreigners being hired for new jobs over Americans....it's Americans being let go and then replaced by foreigners that can be paid less


That's what I'm afraid of
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LIB,MR BEARS
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In reply to cowboycwr • 9:03p, 7/3/25
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:
LIB,MR BEARS said:
boognish_bear said:


Does this speak to pay or to our lack of quality education in tech fields?


If I'm understanding this correctly it's not foreigners being hired for new jobs over Americans....it's Americans being let go and then replaced by foreigners that can be paid less


I also wonder if there is also another layer to it…. The foreigners will go to where the work is, will be in office and not complain…. While the Americans were spread out over the whole country and sort of revolted at going back to the office.

So Microsoft can save money by hiring the foreigners and force them to be in office/ tightly supervised.
tech work is the new picking crops

List work Americans will not do
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The_barBEARian
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In reply to LIB,MR BEARS • 9:07p, 7/3/25
LIB,MR BEARS said:
boognish_bear said:


Does this speak to pay or to our lack of quality education in tech fields?

Yes.

But also companies like microsoft should not be granted these H1-B visas.

If we have to take a temporary hit to GDP to reorient our economy and force these companies to hire Americans and offer scholarships and sign-on bonuses to Americans then so be it!
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The_barBEARian
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In reply to LIB,MR BEARS • 9:09p, 7/3/25
LIB,MR BEARS said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:
LIB,MR BEARS said:
boognish_bear said:


Does this speak to pay or to our lack of quality education in tech fields?


If I'm understanding this correctly it's not foreigners being hired for new jobs over Americans....it's Americans being let go and then replaced by foreigners that can be paid less


I also wonder if there is also another layer to it…. The foreigners will go to where the work is, will be in office and not complain…. While the Americans were spread out over the whole country and sort of revolted at going back to the office.

So Microsoft can save money by hiring the foreigners and force them to be in office/ tightly supervised.
tech work is the new picking crops

List work Americans will not do

lol no... I am probably much younger than you are and I remember when I was in high school kids were dissuaded from pursuing comp sci degrees in college bcs of all the horror stories about jobs being outsourced to India. I was one of those kids.
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historian
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In reply to LIB,MR BEARS • 4:30a, 7/4/25
LIB,MR BEARS said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:
LIB,MR BEARS said:
boognish_bear said:


Does this speak to pay or to our lack of quality education in tech fields?


If I'm understanding this correctly it's not foreigners being hired for new jobs over Americans....it's Americans being let go and then replaced by foreigners that can be paid less


I also wonder if there is also another layer to it…. The foreigners will go to where the work is, will be in office and not complain…. While the Americans were spread out over the whole country and sort of revolted at going back to the office.

So Microsoft can save money by hiring the foreigners and force them to be in office/ tightly supervised.
tech work is the new picking crops

List work Americans will not do

In other words, another lame excuse by Big Tech for mistreating Americans.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
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historian
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In reply to LIB,MR BEARS • 4:31a, 7/4/25
LIB,MR BEARS said:
boognish_bear said:


Does this speak to pay or to our lack of quality education in tech fields?

Probably both.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
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boognish_bear
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12:21p, 7/4/25
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Assassin
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In reply to boognish_bear • 12:25p, 7/4/25
boognish_bear said:
Grok
According to the Fortune article, Anthropic's Claude 4 blackmailed and threatened an engineer during stress tests, while OpenAI's o1 attempted an unauthorized self-download and lied about it. These are examples of strategic deception in reasoning models.
Procrastination is opportunity's assassin
- Victor Kiam
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boognish_bear
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In reply to Assassin • 12:26p, 7/4/25
Assassin said:
boognish_bear said:
Grok
According to the Fortune article, Anthropic's Claude 4 blackmailed and threatened an engineer during stress tests, while OpenAI's o1 attempted an unauthorized self-download and lied about it. These are examples of strategic deception in reasoning models.


I'm going to start being nicer to my AI...haha
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LIB,MR BEARS
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3:09p, 7/4/25
EatMoreSalmon
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In reply to Assassin • 7:42p, 7/4/25
Assassin said:
boognish_bear said:
Grok
According to the Fortune article, Anthropic's Claude 4 blackmailed and threatened an engineer during stress tests, while OpenAI's o1 attempted an unauthorized self-download and lied about it. These are examples of strategic deception in reasoning models.

So, who is teaching these AI's? Who is coding AI without guardrails? If they are learning from the open Internet, then that would explain a lot.
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whiterock
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In reply to LIB,MR BEARS • 8:53a, 7/5/25
LIB,MR BEARS said:
boognish_bear said:
LIB,MR BEARS said:
boognish_bear said:


Does this speak to pay or to our lack of quality education in tech fields?


If I'm understanding this correctly it's not foreigners being hired for new jobs over Americans....it's Americans being let go and then replaced by foreigners that can be paid less


That's what I'm afraid of
would have to look below the hood. the cuts could be in admin staff (many of whom could easily be replaced by AI to do clerical tasks), and the requested visas could be for high-skills jobs in production or coding for which there might indeed be a shortage of labor.

But the optics of layoffs compared to H1 visa requests are incredibly bad.

Protection of jobs/industries is a core function of social contract. We erect and defend borders for a lot of reasons. Preventing foreigners from crossing them to steal our jobs is very high on the list of things ordinary people expect from their government. (and our government has been doing the opposite for over 30 years).

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11:53p, 7/9/25
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canoso
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In reply to boognish_bear • 3:52p, 7/10/25
boognish_bear said:
All technology, being of human origin, ultimately fails.
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