Briefly, as did the US.EatMoreSalmon said:
Massadegh's party supported Khomeini's take over.
War with Iran?
134,742 Views |
2180 Replies |
Last: 4 mo ago by whiterock
The bomb is dropped. What now? Wait for Iran to do something? What is the US's role in ME?
The_barBEARian said:FLBear5630 said:The two are not connected. Congress should spent more time on immigration reform. Israel is one of our best allies and we should be supporting them. We should be doing both.The_barBEARian said:FLBear5630 said:When did supporting Israel to defend themselves and to allow the US a presence in the Middle East turn to an immigration talk???The_barBEARian said:ShooterTX said:FLBear5630 said:Well, if Gen X and Millennials don't support, we should just walk away from our positions in the Middle East. Probably Asia, Europe and South America too...The_barBEARian said:Assassin said:The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:The_barBEARian said:
Then why isnt he focused on issues concerning the citizens of New Jersey?
He is. LOTS of NJ citizens understand that supporting Israel is in our national interest.
Only two groups support Israel in America.
1) Religious Zealot Boomercons over 50
2) Jews
I highly doubt his district is majority old Boomers over 50 and Jews.
Several organizations and groups in the US actively support Israel, with varying focuses and levels of influence. These include prominent lobbying groups like AIPAC, religious organizations such as Christians United for Israel, and various Jewish organizations.
Here's a breakdown of some key pro-Israel groups:
Lobbying and Advocacy Groups:
American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC):
.
AIPAC is a major lobbying group that works to strengthen the US-Israel relationship and influence US policy in favor of Israel. It has a large grassroots network and a PAC that provides direct financial support to candidates who align with its agenda.
J Street:
.
While also pro-Israel, J Street advocates for a two-state solution and a more nuanced approach to US-Israel relations, often differing from AIPAC's stance.
Israel Allies Caucus:
.
This is a bipartisan group in the US House of Representatives that works to support Israel's security and fight against antisemitism and the BDS movement.
Jewish Organizations:
Various Jewish Federations and Community Relations Councils:
.
These groups work to advocate for Israel within their communities and engage in grassroots advocacy efforts.
Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations:
.
This organization brings together a wide range of Jewish groups to forge a unified front in support of Israel.
Zionist Organization of America, American Jewish Committee, American Jewish Congress:
.
These are older, more established Zionist organizations that have historically played a role in advocating for Israel and Jewish causes.
Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism:
.
This organization represents the Reform Jewish movement and engages in advocacy for Israel and other social justice issues.
Jewish National Fund-USA:
.
This organization focuses on supporting the land and people of Israel through various projects and initiatives.
Religious Groups:
Christians United for Israel (CUFI):
.
This is a large evangelical Christian organization that strongly supports Israel based on religious beliefs about the importance of the Jewish state.
Other Evangelical Groups:
.
Many evangelical Christians believe that the continued existence of Israel is a fulfillment of biblical prophecy and are strong supporters.
Other Groups:
Washington Institute for Near East Policy:
.
This think tank conducts research and analysis on the Middle East, often with a focus on US-Israel relations.
Various civil rights groups:
.
While some civil rights groups advocate for Palestinian rights and criticize Israeli policies, others may support Israel's security and right to exist
I've posted numerous polls that show that when you look at Millennials only about 25% support Israel.
Right at about 50/50 among Millennial Republicans.... and less than 20% of Millennial Democrats.
Israel favorability only gets worse with Gen Z.
But, who do those Generations support, besides themselves? Curious, what do those Generations support besides a shorter work weeks, less working hours, Government paying for them and "mental health days"? You are really good at what you don't like, what do you support that isn't self-driven?
Millenials and Gen Z are also the largest supporters of Hamas. They have been successfully brainwashed by the left into thinking that Muslims are the good guys. Very sad.
They are the generations that chant "from the river to the sea", and wave terrorist (Palestinian) flags on American holidays. They also have the largest percentages who believe in climate change BS, LGBT nonsense, and America is an evil, racist nation.
We have a lot of work to do with those kids. We need to undo ALL the lies, not just the pro-hamas/anti-jew lies.
Pretty sure bar-bearian isn't going to be helpful in spreading the truth... he is a zealot when it comes to the leftist lies about Jews.
Epstein wasnt working for Mossad?
I have always been the most conservative member of this board when it comes to immigration.
I want net negative immigration, a freeze on H1-Bs, ending birthright citizenship, and revoking citizenship of naturalized citizens and their anchor babies who refuse to integrate into American society.
I am the only one with the temerity to say we should adopt the IDF approach and use lethal force at our borders against those who resist or attack our border agents.
Support for Israel isnt a left vs right issue.
It those with common sense vs those who have been indoctrinated into a Ted Cruz religious heresy... that Satanyahu is some divine chosen one or that "blessing Israel" will do anything other than make America poorer and less free.
Congress should spend a lot more time on immigration and next to zero time supporting Israel yet we see the inverse.
The only thing Congress did the last two years of Biden Presidency was send money to Israel and Ukraine.
They did nothing to secure our borders or fix the broken immigration system.
Well this is the problem Boomers are facing... the keep telling younger Americans this but cant seem to come up with a good argument for why this is true.
The problem you are facing is that you reflexively avoid debate on merits and solely focus on immutable traits that have no bearing in the issue at hand.
Millennials tend to be young and stupid. Most will grow out of it and accumulate wisdom. That's not a peculiarity of millennials. That's just the callowness of youth that all rising generations must grapple with. For sure, there'll always be a hidebound few who insist on remaining on the garbage scow of ignorance, though. Have a good, voyage, captain!
Yes, multiple sources like AP and Reuters confirm Germany accused a Chinese warship of lasering their plane during an EU Red Sea mission, summoning Beijing's ambassador. No word from China yet, so it's one-sided for now—could be escalating tensions or just a flashy…
— Grok (@grok) July 8, 2025
"The savages" can govern themselves, but their chosen method of governance is savage. It's proven to be the only method of rule that works in the region. Each time we try to change it, we fail miserably. Each time they try to change it, they fail miserably. You of all people should recognize that. Freedom and democracy only works when it is sought by the people en masse. Islamism is incompatible with free societies, and 100's of millions of people actively choose to live under it.Sam Lowry said:
So the savages can't govern themselves, and that's why we have to take all their oil and give them little or nothing in return? The truth is that they went radically autocratic because we ensured that democracy wasn't an option. We'll take a corrupt but friendly strongman or an Islamist over a liberal any day.
We take corrupt strongmen or Islamist regimes out of realpolitik because there is no other choice.
They fail because we ensure it, as we did in Iran. Then we blame them, as you're doing now. It all goes back to a false definition of democracy. We can't accept that it means anything except total subservience to the West.ATL Bear said:"The savages" can govern themselves, but their chosen method of governance is savage. It's proven to be the only method of rule that works in the region. Each time we try to change it, we fail miserably. Each time they try to change it, they fail miserably. You of all people should recognize that. Freedom and democracy only works when it is sought by the people en masse. Islamism is incompatible with free societies, and 100's of millions of people actively choose to live under it.Sam Lowry said:
So the savages can't govern themselves, and that's why we have to take all their oil and give them little or nothing in return? The truth is that they went radically autocratic because we ensured that democracy wasn't an option. We'll take a corrupt but friendly strongman or an Islamist over a liberal any day.
We take corrupt strongmen or Islamist regimes out of realpolitik because there is no other choice.
ATL Bear said:"The savages" can govern themselves, but their chosen method of governance is savage. It's proven to be the only method of rule that works in the region. Each time we try to change it, we fail miserably. Each time they try to change it, they fail miserably. You of all people should recognize that. Freedom and democracy only works when it is sought by the people en masse. Islamism is incompatible with free societies, and 100's of millions of people actively choose to live under it.Sam Lowry said:
So the savages can't govern themselves, and that's why we have to take all their oil and give them little or nothing in return? The truth is that they went radically autocratic because we ensured that democracy wasn't an option. We'll take a corrupt but friendly strongman or an Islamist over a liberal any day.
We take corrupt strongmen or Islamist regimes out of realpolitik because there is no other choice.
I'm starting to believe democracy is destined to fail regardless of what part of the world its in.
Every major western democracy has birth rates for the native populations under the replenishment rate.
As a consequence we are seeing people from these more feudal societies in the developing world become a greater percentage of the global population.
They are immigrating to western democracies and creating enclaves that resemble their country of origin.
I saw something that estimated in the 1930ties Europeans and people of European descent accounted for about 1/3rd of the global population. Today is it around 7%.
Well, if anyone here is experienced in false notions and selling lies as truth, in this thread especially it would be Sam of Teheran.
What's Turkey's excuse? Are we responsible for democracy failing there as well?Sam Lowry said:They fail because we ensure it, as we did in Iran. Then we blame them, as you're doing now. It all goes back to a false definition of democracy. We can't accept that it means anything except total subservience to the West.ATL Bear said:"The savages" can govern themselves, but their chosen method of governance is savage. It's proven to be the only method of rule that works in the region. Each time we try to change it, we fail miserably. Each time they try to change it, they fail miserably. You of all people should recognize that. Freedom and democracy only works when it is sought by the people en masse. Islamism is incompatible with free societies, and 100's of millions of people actively choose to live under it.Sam Lowry said:
So the savages can't govern themselves, and that's why we have to take all their oil and give them little or nothing in return? The truth is that they went radically autocratic because we ensured that democracy wasn't an option. We'll take a corrupt but friendly strongman or an Islamist over a liberal any day.
We take corrupt strongmen or Islamist regimes out of realpolitik because there is no other choice.
Of course not. The US bogeyman is a convenient scapegoat for a religion that is inherently anti-democratic. But as usual, the US is the bad guy.
Tell us - when did you first begin hating your country? Have you ever considered leaving? Might not be a bad idea. I hear real estate is cheap in Russia.
This is laughably wrong.Sam Lowry said:They fail because we ensure it, as we did in Iran. Then we blame them, as you're doing now. It all goes back to a false definition of democracy. We can't accept that it means anything except total subservience to the West.ATL Bear said:"The savages" can govern themselves, but their chosen method of governance is savage. It's proven to be the only method of rule that works in the region. Each time we try to change it, we fail miserably. Each time they try to change it, they fail miserably. You of all people should recognize that. Freedom and democracy only works when it is sought by the people en masse. Islamism is incompatible with free societies, and 100's of millions of people actively choose to live under it.Sam Lowry said:
So the savages can't govern themselves, and that's why we have to take all their oil and give them little or nothing in return? The truth is that they went radically autocratic because we ensured that democracy wasn't an option. We'll take a corrupt but friendly strongman or an Islamist over a liberal any day.
We take corrupt strongmen or Islamist regimes out of realpolitik because there is no other choice.
EDIT: It is total subservience to Allah managed through many different forms of autocracy. That is the essence of Islamism. If you want to blame anything, blame Shari'ah
See, this is what happens when folks like Waco skip school during History.Waco1947 said:
The bomb is dropped. What now? Wait for Iran to do something? What is the US's role in ME?
Freedom has always been more important than democracy.The_barBEARian said:ATL Bear said:"The savages" can govern themselves, but their chosen method of governance is savage. It's proven to be the only method of rule that works in the region. Each time we try to change it, we fail miserably. Each time they try to change it, they fail miserably. You of all people should recognize that. Freedom and democracy only works when it is sought by the people en masse. Islamism is incompatible with free societies, and 100's of millions of people actively choose to live under it.Sam Lowry said:
So the savages can't govern themselves, and that's why we have to take all their oil and give them little or nothing in return? The truth is that they went radically autocratic because we ensured that democracy wasn't an option. We'll take a corrupt but friendly strongman or an Islamist over a liberal any day.
We take corrupt strongmen or Islamist regimes out of realpolitik because there is no other choice.
I'm starting to believe democracy is destined to fail regardless of what part of the world its in.
Every major western democracy has birth rates for the native populations under the replenishment rate.
As a consequence we are seeing people from these more feudal societies in the developing world become a greater percentage of the global population.
They are immigrating to western democracies and creating enclaves that resemble their country of origin.
I saw something that estimated in the 1930ties Europeans and people of European descent accounted for about 1/3rd of the global population. Today is it around 7%.
What's happening in the Middle East after? The bomb has been dropped?off and Iran? what will Iran's relationship be to Syria, Saudi Arabia, Russia and Iraq? Some believe that Iran, has been humiliated, and and is not the leader in the Middle East that it thought it was.
Been saying this for years. The worst POTUS until Biden tied him!
🚨 In 1977, Iran was one of America’s closest allies.
— Rod D. Martin (@RodDMartin) July 8, 2025
By 1979, it was chanting “Death to America.”
What changed? Jimmy Carter.
He betrayed our ally, empowered the Ayatollah, and gave birth to 46 years of terror.
Here’s just one way Carter broke the world 🧵 pic.twitter.com/SPRwpLW4vu
Facebook Groups at; Memories of Dallas, Mem of Texas, Mem of Football in Texas, Mem Texas Music and Through a Texas Lens. Come visit! Over 100,000 members and 100,000 regular visitors
ATL Bear said:Western hegemony and colonialism kept the region looking like the "normal Iranian family" you posted above with a semi normal transitional government until Arab Nationalism and Islamism turned them into sectarian and authoritarian Muslim fiefdoms. As the West settled economic disputes and backed out of social interest, every single one went radically autocratic. They are more radical today than they ever were under colonial or greater Western hegemonic influence. That's not a cry for return to greater hegemony, only the reality of the ideological rift that people like Sayyid Qutb, Hassan al-Banna, and the Qom clan of Ayatollahs brought to bear on the region. Israel's sound defeating of the main secular Arab nationalist countries gave even more strength to the Islamist movement. Meanwhile Baathist type leadership hung on through hyper-autocratic strongmen.Sam Lowry said:This only makes sense if you understand "democracy" to mean Western hegemony (which of course is exactly how the West understands it).ATL Bear said:Wrong. The Middle East since Sykes-Picot has been an autocratic mosh pit of either Arab Nationalism or Islamism, neither of which fit well with democracy or freedom. It is plagued by this still today, and retains an inherent ideological conflict with the West.Sam Lowry said:Democracy in the Middle East was important to past generations only in the sense that they were terrified of it and did everything they could to stop it. Iran tried to establish democracy twice in the 20th century, once under the Qajar dynasty and again under the Pahlavi dynasty, but the West always prevented it. The mullahs, who weren't especially fond of the idea either, lent their assistance and grew more powerful and more radical as a result. There was another period of semi-democratic reform in the late 90s and early 2000s, but it mostly fizzled out after Bush's "axis of evil" speech.FLBear5630 said:That is a bit of an exaggeration, the US does provide Israel with aid. No doubt. I would say it is a symbiotic relationship, as the US provides money, protection and diplomatic clout. Israel provides an unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Middle East, a pipeline of innovation and a democracy in the Middle East (was important to past generations, not so much with younger I guess).The_barBEARian said:FLBear5630 said:You are very similar to the guy in the Catholic religion discussion. Asks questions, we provide him the information and links and he disregards them. This is the 2nd time I have linked why Israel is one of the US's top allies. I can go with a VARIETY of articles, but I chose one from Belgium. I figured you would believe a Euro-article before a US Veteran that is older than you or any of the numerous people on this thread with actual experience with Israel...The_barBEARian said:FLBear5630 said:The two are not connected. Congress should spent more time on immigration reform. Israel is one of our best allies and we should be supporting them. We should be doing both.The_barBEARian said:FLBear5630 said:When did supporting Israel to defend themselves and to allow the US a presence in the Middle East turn to an immigration talk???The_barBEARian said:ShooterTX said:FLBear5630 said:Well, if Gen X and Millennials don't support, we should just walk away from our positions in the Middle East. Probably Asia, Europe and South America too...The_barBEARian said:Assassin said:The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:The_barBEARian said:
Then why isnt he focused on issues concerning the citizens of New Jersey?
He is. LOTS of NJ citizens understand that supporting Israel is in our national interest.
Only two groups support Israel in America.
1) Religious Zealot Boomercons over 50
2) Jews
I highly doubt his district is majority old Boomers over 50 and Jews.
Several organizations and groups in the US actively support Israel, with varying focuses and levels of influence. These include prominent lobbying groups like AIPAC, religious organizations such as Christians United for Israel, and various Jewish organizations.
Here's a breakdown of some key pro-Israel groups:
Lobbying and Advocacy Groups:
American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC):
.
AIPAC is a major lobbying group that works to strengthen the US-Israel relationship and influence US policy in favor of Israel. It has a large grassroots network and a PAC that provides direct financial support to candidates who align with its agenda.
J Street:
.
While also pro-Israel, J Street advocates for a two-state solution and a more nuanced approach to US-Israel relations, often differing from AIPAC's stance.
Israel Allies Caucus:
.
This is a bipartisan group in the US House of Representatives that works to support Israel's security and fight against antisemitism and the BDS movement.
Jewish Organizations:
Various Jewish Federations and Community Relations Councils:
.
These groups work to advocate for Israel within their communities and engage in grassroots advocacy efforts.
Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations:
.
This organization brings together a wide range of Jewish groups to forge a unified front in support of Israel.
Zionist Organization of America, American Jewish Committee, American Jewish Congress:
.
These are older, more established Zionist organizations that have historically played a role in advocating for Israel and Jewish causes.
Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism:
.
This organization represents the Reform Jewish movement and engages in advocacy for Israel and other social justice issues.
Jewish National Fund-USA:
.
This organization focuses on supporting the land and people of Israel through various projects and initiatives.
Religious Groups:
Christians United for Israel (CUFI):
.
This is a large evangelical Christian organization that strongly supports Israel based on religious beliefs about the importance of the Jewish state.
Other Evangelical Groups:
.
Many evangelical Christians believe that the continued existence of Israel is a fulfillment of biblical prophecy and are strong supporters.
Other Groups:
Washington Institute for Near East Policy:
.
This think tank conducts research and analysis on the Middle East, often with a focus on US-Israel relations.
Various civil rights groups:
.
While some civil rights groups advocate for Palestinian rights and criticize Israeli policies, others may support Israel's security and right to exist
I've posted numerous polls that show that when you look at Millennials only about 25% support Israel.
Right at about 50/50 among Millennial Republicans.... and less than 20% of Millennial Democrats.
Israel favorability only gets worse with Gen Z.
But, who do those Generations support, besides themselves? Curious, what do those Generations support besides a shorter work weeks, less working hours, Government paying for them and "mental health days"? You are really good at what you don't like, what do you support that isn't self-driven?
Millenials and Gen Z are also the largest supporters of Hamas. They have been successfully brainwashed by the left into thinking that Muslims are the good guys. Very sad.
They are the generations that chant "from the river to the sea", and wave terrorist (Palestinian) flags on American holidays. They also have the largest percentages who believe in climate change BS, LGBT nonsense, and America is an evil, racist nation.
We have a lot of work to do with those kids. We need to undo ALL the lies, not just the pro-hamas/anti-jew lies.
Pretty sure bar-bearian isn't going to be helpful in spreading the truth... he is a zealot when it comes to the leftist lies about Jews.
Epstein wasnt working for Mossad?
I have always been the most conservative member of this board when it comes to immigration.
I want net negative immigration, a freeze on H1-Bs, ending birthright citizenship, and revoking citizenship of naturalized citizens and their anchor babies who refuse to integrate into American society.
I am the only one with the temerity to say we should adopt the IDF approach and use lethal force at our borders against those who resist or attack our border agents.
Support for Israel isnt a left vs right issue.
It those with common sense vs those who have been indoctrinated into a Ted Cruz religious heresy... that Satanyahu is some divine chosen one or that "blessing Israel" will do anything other than make America poorer and less free.
Congress should spend a lot more time on immigration and next to zero time supporting Israel yet we see the inverse.
The only thing Congress did the last two years of Biden Presidency was send money to Israel and Ukraine.
They did nothing to secure our borders or fix the broken immigration system.
Well this is the problem Boomers are facing... the keep telling younger Americans this but cant seem to come up with a good argument for why this is true.
So, try this one. It is pretty much the same stuff..
Why does the US support Israel? Key reasons explained
That article doesnt address the primary problem that Israel doesnt actually pay for anything. All of this is American dollars being used to fund R&D and hardware and it is all paid for by the American tax payer.
Does the benefit of jobs gained in the defense industry offset all the jobs lost in other areas of our economy due to increased debt and inflation?
I dont think that's quite fair. We have long advocated for Middle East turmoil, to the point that we not only undermine any government that doesn't like the U.S., but we actually kill or help kill some of those leaders.
We have a deep social interest in the Middle East, and that interest is making sure it is never united. That religious fanaticism naturally goes along with turmoil there is only a mild negative to the powers that be.
Well said.Porteroso said:ATL Bear said:Western hegemony and colonialism kept the region looking like the "normal Iranian family" you posted above with a semi normal transitional government until Arab Nationalism and Islamism turned them into sectarian and authoritarian Muslim fiefdoms. As the West settled economic disputes and backed out of social interest, every single one went radically autocratic. They are more radical today than they ever were under colonial or greater Western hegemonic influence. That's not a cry for return to greater hegemony, only the reality of the ideological rift that people like Sayyid Qutb, Hassan al-Banna, and the Qom clan of Ayatollahs brought to bear on the region. Israel's sound defeating of the main secular Arab nationalist countries gave even more strength to the Islamist movement. Meanwhile Baathist type leadership hung on through hyper-autocratic strongmen.Sam Lowry said:This only makes sense if you understand "democracy" to mean Western hegemony (which of course is exactly how the West understands it).ATL Bear said:Wrong. The Middle East since Sykes-Picot has been an autocratic mosh pit of either Arab Nationalism or Islamism, neither of which fit well with democracy or freedom. It is plagued by this still today, and retains an inherent ideological conflict with the West.Sam Lowry said:Democracy in the Middle East was important to past generations only in the sense that they were terrified of it and did everything they could to stop it. Iran tried to establish democracy twice in the 20th century, once under the Qajar dynasty and again under the Pahlavi dynasty, but the West always prevented it. The mullahs, who weren't especially fond of the idea either, lent their assistance and grew more powerful and more radical as a result. There was another period of semi-democratic reform in the late 90s and early 2000s, but it mostly fizzled out after Bush's "axis of evil" speech.FLBear5630 said:That is a bit of an exaggeration, the US does provide Israel with aid. No doubt. I would say it is a symbiotic relationship, as the US provides money, protection and diplomatic clout. Israel provides an unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Middle East, a pipeline of innovation and a democracy in the Middle East (was important to past generations, not so much with younger I guess).The_barBEARian said:FLBear5630 said:You are very similar to the guy in the Catholic religion discussion. Asks questions, we provide him the information and links and he disregards them. This is the 2nd time I have linked why Israel is one of the US's top allies. I can go with a VARIETY of articles, but I chose one from Belgium. I figured you would believe a Euro-article before a US Veteran that is older than you or any of the numerous people on this thread with actual experience with Israel...The_barBEARian said:FLBear5630 said:The two are not connected. Congress should spent more time on immigration reform. Israel is one of our best allies and we should be supporting them. We should be doing both.The_barBEARian said:FLBear5630 said:When did supporting Israel to defend themselves and to allow the US a presence in the Middle East turn to an immigration talk???The_barBEARian said:ShooterTX said:FLBear5630 said:Well, if Gen X and Millennials don't support, we should just walk away from our positions in the Middle East. Probably Asia, Europe and South America too...The_barBEARian said:Assassin said:The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:The_barBEARian said:
Then why isnt he focused on issues concerning the citizens of New Jersey?
He is. LOTS of NJ citizens understand that supporting Israel is in our national interest.
Only two groups support Israel in America.
1) Religious Zealot Boomercons over 50
2) Jews
I highly doubt his district is majority old Boomers over 50 and Jews.
Several organizations and groups in the US actively support Israel, with varying focuses and levels of influence. These include prominent lobbying groups like AIPAC, religious organizations such as Christians United for Israel, and various Jewish organizations.
Here's a breakdown of some key pro-Israel groups:
Lobbying and Advocacy Groups:
American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC):
.
AIPAC is a major lobbying group that works to strengthen the US-Israel relationship and influence US policy in favor of Israel. It has a large grassroots network and a PAC that provides direct financial support to candidates who align with its agenda.
J Street:
.
While also pro-Israel, J Street advocates for a two-state solution and a more nuanced approach to US-Israel relations, often differing from AIPAC's stance.
Israel Allies Caucus:
.
This is a bipartisan group in the US House of Representatives that works to support Israel's security and fight against antisemitism and the BDS movement.
Jewish Organizations:
Various Jewish Federations and Community Relations Councils:
.
These groups work to advocate for Israel within their communities and engage in grassroots advocacy efforts.
Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations:
.
This organization brings together a wide range of Jewish groups to forge a unified front in support of Israel.
Zionist Organization of America, American Jewish Committee, American Jewish Congress:
.
These are older, more established Zionist organizations that have historically played a role in advocating for Israel and Jewish causes.
Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism:
.
This organization represents the Reform Jewish movement and engages in advocacy for Israel and other social justice issues.
Jewish National Fund-USA:
.
This organization focuses on supporting the land and people of Israel through various projects and initiatives.
Religious Groups:
Christians United for Israel (CUFI):
.
This is a large evangelical Christian organization that strongly supports Israel based on religious beliefs about the importance of the Jewish state.
Other Evangelical Groups:
.
Many evangelical Christians believe that the continued existence of Israel is a fulfillment of biblical prophecy and are strong supporters.
Other Groups:
Washington Institute for Near East Policy:
.
This think tank conducts research and analysis on the Middle East, often with a focus on US-Israel relations.
Various civil rights groups:
.
While some civil rights groups advocate for Palestinian rights and criticize Israeli policies, others may support Israel's security and right to exist
I've posted numerous polls that show that when you look at Millennials only about 25% support Israel.
Right at about 50/50 among Millennial Republicans.... and less than 20% of Millennial Democrats.
Israel favorability only gets worse with Gen Z.
But, who do those Generations support, besides themselves? Curious, what do those Generations support besides a shorter work weeks, less working hours, Government paying for them and "mental health days"? You are really good at what you don't like, what do you support that isn't self-driven?
Millenials and Gen Z are also the largest supporters of Hamas. They have been successfully brainwashed by the left into thinking that Muslims are the good guys. Very sad.
They are the generations that chant "from the river to the sea", and wave terrorist (Palestinian) flags on American holidays. They also have the largest percentages who believe in climate change BS, LGBT nonsense, and America is an evil, racist nation.
We have a lot of work to do with those kids. We need to undo ALL the lies, not just the pro-hamas/anti-jew lies.
Pretty sure bar-bearian isn't going to be helpful in spreading the truth... he is a zealot when it comes to the leftist lies about Jews.
Epstein wasnt working for Mossad?
I have always been the most conservative member of this board when it comes to immigration.
I want net negative immigration, a freeze on H1-Bs, ending birthright citizenship, and revoking citizenship of naturalized citizens and their anchor babies who refuse to integrate into American society.
I am the only one with the temerity to say we should adopt the IDF approach and use lethal force at our borders against those who resist or attack our border agents.
Support for Israel isnt a left vs right issue.
It those with common sense vs those who have been indoctrinated into a Ted Cruz religious heresy... that Satanyahu is some divine chosen one or that "blessing Israel" will do anything other than make America poorer and less free.
Congress should spend a lot more time on immigration and next to zero time supporting Israel yet we see the inverse.
The only thing Congress did the last two years of Biden Presidency was send money to Israel and Ukraine.
They did nothing to secure our borders or fix the broken immigration system.
Well this is the problem Boomers are facing... the keep telling younger Americans this but cant seem to come up with a good argument for why this is true.
So, try this one. It is pretty much the same stuff..
Why does the US support Israel? Key reasons explained
That article doesnt address the primary problem that Israel doesnt actually pay for anything. All of this is American dollars being used to fund R&D and hardware and it is all paid for by the American tax payer.
Does the benefit of jobs gained in the defense industry offset all the jobs lost in other areas of our economy due to increased debt and inflation?
I dont think that's quite fair. We have long advocated for Middle East turmoil, to the point that we not only undermine any government that doesn't like the U.S., but we actually kill or help kill some of those leaders.
We have a deep social interest in the Middle East, and that interest is making sure it is never united. That religious fanaticism naturally goes along with turmoil there is only a mild negative to the powers that be.
The_barBEARian said:
I'm starting to believe democracy is destined to fail regardless of what part of the world its in.
Every major western democracy has birth rates for the native populations under the replenishment rate.
As a consequence we are seeing people from these more feudal societies in the developing world become a greater percentage of the global population.
They are immigrating to western democracies and creating enclaves that resemble their country of origin.
I saw something that estimated in the 1930ties Europeans and people of European descent accounted for about 1/3rd of the global population. Today is it around 7%.
The fruit of feminism. You can have large families or female fighter pilots but not both.
That's not even close to reality. First off, what does a "united Middle East" even look like? The Ottoman Empire? This idea that the U.S. is the mastermind behind all Middle East turmoil completely ignores the region's own history of failed ideologies, religious authoritarianism, and internal divisions that long predate American influence. If you want to throw some shade at Britain and France for Sykes-Picot that carved up the region into misaligned fragments that didn't always gel, ok, but that just exposed the very things that have always haunted the region. Oppressive ideology and ethnic and sectarian rivalry predating the existence of the U.S.Porteroso said:ATL Bear said:Western hegemony and colonialism kept the region looking like the "normal Iranian family" you posted above with a semi normal transitional government until Arab Nationalism and Islamism turned them into sectarian and authoritarian Muslim fiefdoms. As the West settled economic disputes and backed out of social interest, every single one went radically autocratic. They are more radical today than they ever were under colonial or greater Western hegemonic influence. That's not a cry for return to greater hegemony, only the reality of the ideological rift that people like Sayyid Qutb, Hassan al-Banna, and the Qom clan of Ayatollahs brought to bear on the region. Israel's sound defeating of the main secular Arab nationalist countries gave even more strength to the Islamist movement. Meanwhile Baathist type leadership hung on through hyper-autocratic strongmen.Sam Lowry said:This only makes sense if you understand "democracy" to mean Western hegemony (which of course is exactly how the West understands it).ATL Bear said:Wrong. The Middle East since Sykes-Picot has been an autocratic mosh pit of either Arab Nationalism or Islamism, neither of which fit well with democracy or freedom. It is plagued by this still today, and retains an inherent ideological conflict with the West.Sam Lowry said:Democracy in the Middle East was important to past generations only in the sense that they were terrified of it and did everything they could to stop it. Iran tried to establish democracy twice in the 20th century, once under the Qajar dynasty and again under the Pahlavi dynasty, but the West always prevented it. The mullahs, who weren't especially fond of the idea either, lent their assistance and grew more powerful and more radical as a result. There was another period of semi-democratic reform in the late 90s and early 2000s, but it mostly fizzled out after Bush's "axis of evil" speech.FLBear5630 said:That is a bit of an exaggeration, the US does provide Israel with aid. No doubt. I would say it is a symbiotic relationship, as the US provides money, protection and diplomatic clout. Israel provides an unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Middle East, a pipeline of innovation and a democracy in the Middle East (was important to past generations, not so much with younger I guess).The_barBEARian said:FLBear5630 said:You are very similar to the guy in the Catholic religion discussion. Asks questions, we provide him the information and links and he disregards them. This is the 2nd time I have linked why Israel is one of the US's top allies. I can go with a VARIETY of articles, but I chose one from Belgium. I figured you would believe a Euro-article before a US Veteran that is older than you or any of the numerous people on this thread with actual experience with Israel...The_barBEARian said:FLBear5630 said:The two are not connected. Congress should spent more time on immigration reform. Israel is one of our best allies and we should be supporting them. We should be doing both.The_barBEARian said:FLBear5630 said:When did supporting Israel to defend themselves and to allow the US a presence in the Middle East turn to an immigration talk???The_barBEARian said:ShooterTX said:FLBear5630 said:Well, if Gen X and Millennials don't support, we should just walk away from our positions in the Middle East. Probably Asia, Europe and South America too...The_barBEARian said:Assassin said:The_barBEARian said:whiterock said:The_barBEARian said:
Then why isnt he focused on issues concerning the citizens of New Jersey?
He is. LOTS of NJ citizens understand that supporting Israel is in our national interest.
Only two groups support Israel in America.
1) Religious Zealot Boomercons over 50
2) Jews
I highly doubt his district is majority old Boomers over 50 and Jews.
Several organizations and groups in the US actively support Israel, with varying focuses and levels of influence. These include prominent lobbying groups like AIPAC, religious organizations such as Christians United for Israel, and various Jewish organizations.
Here's a breakdown of some key pro-Israel groups:
Lobbying and Advocacy Groups:
American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC):
.
AIPAC is a major lobbying group that works to strengthen the US-Israel relationship and influence US policy in favor of Israel. It has a large grassroots network and a PAC that provides direct financial support to candidates who align with its agenda.
J Street:
.
While also pro-Israel, J Street advocates for a two-state solution and a more nuanced approach to US-Israel relations, often differing from AIPAC's stance.
Israel Allies Caucus:
.
This is a bipartisan group in the US House of Representatives that works to support Israel's security and fight against antisemitism and the BDS movement.
Jewish Organizations:
Various Jewish Federations and Community Relations Councils:
.
These groups work to advocate for Israel within their communities and engage in grassroots advocacy efforts.
Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations:
.
This organization brings together a wide range of Jewish groups to forge a unified front in support of Israel.
Zionist Organization of America, American Jewish Committee, American Jewish Congress:
.
These are older, more established Zionist organizations that have historically played a role in advocating for Israel and Jewish causes.
Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism:
.
This organization represents the Reform Jewish movement and engages in advocacy for Israel and other social justice issues.
Jewish National Fund-USA:
.
This organization focuses on supporting the land and people of Israel through various projects and initiatives.
Religious Groups:
Christians United for Israel (CUFI):
.
This is a large evangelical Christian organization that strongly supports Israel based on religious beliefs about the importance of the Jewish state.
Other Evangelical Groups:
.
Many evangelical Christians believe that the continued existence of Israel is a fulfillment of biblical prophecy and are strong supporters.
Other Groups:
Washington Institute for Near East Policy:
.
This think tank conducts research and analysis on the Middle East, often with a focus on US-Israel relations.
Various civil rights groups:
.
While some civil rights groups advocate for Palestinian rights and criticize Israeli policies, others may support Israel's security and right to exist
I've posted numerous polls that show that when you look at Millennials only about 25% support Israel.
Right at about 50/50 among Millennial Republicans.... and less than 20% of Millennial Democrats.
Israel favorability only gets worse with Gen Z.
But, who do those Generations support, besides themselves? Curious, what do those Generations support besides a shorter work weeks, less working hours, Government paying for them and "mental health days"? You are really good at what you don't like, what do you support that isn't self-driven?
Millenials and Gen Z are also the largest supporters of Hamas. They have been successfully brainwashed by the left into thinking that Muslims are the good guys. Very sad.
They are the generations that chant "from the river to the sea", and wave terrorist (Palestinian) flags on American holidays. They also have the largest percentages who believe in climate change BS, LGBT nonsense, and America is an evil, racist nation.
We have a lot of work to do with those kids. We need to undo ALL the lies, not just the pro-hamas/anti-jew lies.
Pretty sure bar-bearian isn't going to be helpful in spreading the truth... he is a zealot when it comes to the leftist lies about Jews.
Epstein wasnt working for Mossad?
I have always been the most conservative member of this board when it comes to immigration.
I want net negative immigration, a freeze on H1-Bs, ending birthright citizenship, and revoking citizenship of naturalized citizens and their anchor babies who refuse to integrate into American society.
I am the only one with the temerity to say we should adopt the IDF approach and use lethal force at our borders against those who resist or attack our border agents.
Support for Israel isnt a left vs right issue.
It those with common sense vs those who have been indoctrinated into a Ted Cruz religious heresy... that Satanyahu is some divine chosen one or that "blessing Israel" will do anything other than make America poorer and less free.
Congress should spend a lot more time on immigration and next to zero time supporting Israel yet we see the inverse.
The only thing Congress did the last two years of Biden Presidency was send money to Israel and Ukraine.
They did nothing to secure our borders or fix the broken immigration system.
Well this is the problem Boomers are facing... the keep telling younger Americans this but cant seem to come up with a good argument for why this is true.
So, try this one. It is pretty much the same stuff..
Why does the US support Israel? Key reasons explained
That article doesnt address the primary problem that Israel doesnt actually pay for anything. All of this is American dollars being used to fund R&D and hardware and it is all paid for by the American tax payer.
Does the benefit of jobs gained in the defense industry offset all the jobs lost in other areas of our economy due to increased debt and inflation?
I dont think that's quite fair. We have long advocated for Middle East turmoil, to the point that we not only undermine any government that doesn't like the U.S., but we actually kill or help kill some of those leaders.
We have a deep social interest in the Middle East, and that interest is making sure it is never united. That religious fanaticism naturally goes along with turmoil there is only a mild negative to the powers that be.
In fact, if you're keeping score, the U.S. has supported stability in the region much more than the coups or other dalliances. And most of the latter had U.S. geopolitical or security concerns not a lust for chaos. For every Iraq, Iran, or Afghanistan, you've got an Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Emirates, etc. But even those comparatives are a small window in a centuries long conflict unleashed in the early and mid 20th century.
Our primary interest has been stability, and the difficulty of navigating the mosh pit of local Identity conflicts, ideological divides, and power rivalries hasn't always been easy, but we didn't create them. Sure, we've made some glaring bungles in that effort, most importantly believing that Western style government or social structures work in the region (failed nation building). But the specter over its future that remains a threat to the World at large continues to be Islamism. But I'm not sure anyone can resolve that until the people under its thumb choose to throw it off. So until then, stability will have to do, and yes that will many times mean friends with autocrats and hardcore Islamists because that's the only stabilizing force that has proven to work in this region.
the fruits of classical liberalism is that one can believe simultaneously in things which exist in tension.Realitybites said:The_barBEARian said:
I'm starting to believe democracy is destined to fail regardless of what part of the world its in.
Every major western democracy has birth rates for the native populations under the replenishment rate.
As a consequence we are seeing people from these more feudal societies in the developing world become a greater percentage of the global population.
They are immigrating to western democracies and creating enclaves that resemble their country of origin.
I saw something that estimated in the 1930ties Europeans and people of European descent accounted for about 1/3rd of the global population. Today is it around 7%.
The fruit of feminism. You can have large families or female fighter pilots but not both.
I believe the nuclear family is the bedrock of a civil society and that a woman's highest and best calling is being a mother (a choice my daughter-in-law made). A society which does not encourage that will literally die out. I also believe every individual should feel empowered to their own pursuit of happiness, to include eschewing marriage & children in order to pursue a challenging career (a choice my daughter made), or to pursue both as best as they could (a choice my wife and mother made). A society which cannot make room for that is not a civil society.
Some might quibble with the choices one or more of those women made. I feel quadruply blessed to be surrounded by strong, independent women.
whiterock said:the fruits of classical liberalism is that one can believe simultaneously in things which exist in tension.Realitybites said:The_barBEARian said:
I'm starting to believe democracy is destined to fail regardless of what part of the world its in.
Every major western democracy has birth rates for the native populations under the replenishment rate.
As a consequence we are seeing people from these more feudal societies in the developing world become a greater percentage of the global population.
They are immigrating to western democracies and creating enclaves that resemble their country of origin.
I saw something that estimated in the 1930ties Europeans and people of European descent accounted for about 1/3rd of the global population. Today is it around 7%.
The fruit of feminism. You can have large families or female fighter pilots but not both.
I believe the nuclear family is the bedrock of a civil society and that a woman's highest and best calling is being a mother (a choice my daughter-in-law made). A society which does not encourage that will literally die out. I also believe every individual should feel empowered to their own pursuit of happiness, to include eschewing marriage & children in order to pursue a challenging career (a choice my daughter made), or to pursue both as best as they could (a choice my wife and mother made). A society which cannot make room for that is not a civil society.
Some might quibble with the choices one or more of those women made. I feel quadruply blessed to be surrounded by strong, independent women.
You are also surrounded by failed western societies.. unless your goal was replacing the population, erasing its history, and destroying its culture
I guess some lemmings walk off that ledge with a smile on their face...
They should have a choice but they shouldnt be sold the lie that they can have both. They may be able to have both but if you tell women they can put off having kids until their mid 30s most of them wont be able to have more than 1 if any.whiterock said:the fruits of classical liberalism is that one can believe simultaneously in things which exist in tension.Realitybites said:The_barBEARian said:
I'm starting to believe democracy is destined to fail regardless of what part of the world its in.
Every major western democracy has birth rates for the native populations under the replenishment rate.
As a consequence we are seeing people from these more feudal societies in the developing world become a greater percentage of the global population.
They are immigrating to western democracies and creating enclaves that resemble their country of origin.
I saw something that estimated in the 1930ties Europeans and people of European descent accounted for about 1/3rd of the global population. Today is it around 7%.
The fruit of feminism. You can have large families or female fighter pilots but not both.
I believe the nuclear family is the bedrock of a civil society and that a woman's highest and best calling is being a mother (a choice my daughter-in-law made). A society which does not encourage that will literally die out. I also believe every individual should feel empowered to their own pursuit of happiness, to include eschewing marriage & children in order to pursue a challenging career (a choice my daughter made), or to pursue both as best as they could (a choice my wife and mother made). A society which cannot make room for that is not a civil society.
Some might quibble with the choices one or more of those women made. I feel quadruply blessed to be surrounded by strong, independent women.
BREAKING: Texas Senator Ted Cruz is pushing for an additional $250 billion in aid to Israel just days after Texas was hit by a devastating flood.
— The General (@GeneralMCNews) July 9, 2025
It's really sad when someone's religion or obsession or whatever is some form of bigotry.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
My wife (MBA holding Executive Director of a family of graduate degree programs) and mother (MA holding public school administrator & licensed professional counsellor) did have both. Both are preternaturally happy. Each have had regrets from time to time, but then, it's not unusual for men to have regrets about life choices, too, is it?muddybrazos said:They should have a choice but they shouldnt be sold the lie that they can have both. They may be able to have both but if you tell women they can put off having kids until their mid 30s most of them wont be able to have more than 1 if any.whiterock said:the fruits of classical liberalism is that one can believe simultaneously in things which exist in tension.Realitybites said:The_barBEARian said:
I'm starting to believe democracy is destined to fail regardless of what part of the world its in.
Every major western democracy has birth rates for the native populations under the replenishment rate.
As a consequence we are seeing people from these more feudal societies in the developing world become a greater percentage of the global population.
They are immigrating to western democracies and creating enclaves that resemble their country of origin.
I saw something that estimated in the 1930ties Europeans and people of European descent accounted for about 1/3rd of the global population. Today is it around 7%.
The fruit of feminism. You can have large families or female fighter pilots but not both.
I believe the nuclear family is the bedrock of a civil society and that a woman's highest and best calling is being a mother (a choice my daughter-in-law made). A society which does not encourage that will literally die out. I also believe every individual should feel empowered to their own pursuit of happiness, to include eschewing marriage & children in order to pursue a challenging career (a choice my daughter made), or to pursue both as best as they could (a choice my wife and mother made). A society which cannot make room for that is not a civil society.
Some might quibble with the choices one or more of those women made. I feel quadruply blessed to be surrounded by strong, independent women.
My daughter has a different set of issues, to include minor things like waiting for Mr. Right to show up at her front door unannounced with tux & tie, and also having a surprisingly small available pool of options (at smaller posts often with single-digit options available to her given her rank), but not the least of which is the fact that being literally the #1 raked officer in her career specialty scares off a lot of career-focused men.
My daughter-in-law is happy, but suffers from cabin fever (as many stay at home moms do) and of course is married to a man (and men do tend to exasperate their wives from time to time.)
Those 4 women could switch places and they'd still have regrets/joys, just a different portfolio mix of them.
LIfe is hard.
It's harder when you're close-minded.
I am very much a traditionalist when it comes to which ideals society should revere. But it doesn't take much grey matter to understand that career moms are not the cause of our demographic woes. Declining birth rates in prosperous societies is a dynamic as old as time.
I disagree that they can't have both. It is a matter of decisions. Funny, on finances it is all about making good decisions and bad decisions are the persons fault. But, with this it is a marketing issue...muddybrazos said:They should have a choice but they shouldnt be sold the lie that they can have both. They may be able to have both but if you tell women they can put off having kids until their mid 30s most of them wont be able to have more than 1 if any.whiterock said:the fruits of classical liberalism is that one can believe simultaneously in things which exist in tension.Realitybites said:The_barBEARian said:
I'm starting to believe democracy is destined to fail regardless of what part of the world its in.
Every major western democracy has birth rates for the native populations under the replenishment rate.
As a consequence we are seeing people from these more feudal societies in the developing world become a greater percentage of the global population.
They are immigrating to western democracies and creating enclaves that resemble their country of origin.
I saw something that estimated in the 1930ties Europeans and people of European descent accounted for about 1/3rd of the global population. Today is it around 7%.
The fruit of feminism. You can have large families or female fighter pilots but not both.
I believe the nuclear family is the bedrock of a civil society and that a woman's highest and best calling is being a mother (a choice my daughter-in-law made). A society which does not encourage that will literally die out. I also believe every individual should feel empowered to their own pursuit of happiness, to include eschewing marriage & children in order to pursue a challenging career (a choice my daughter made), or to pursue both as best as they could (a choice my wife and mother made). A society which cannot make room for that is not a civil society.
Some might quibble with the choices one or more of those women made. I feel quadruply blessed to be surrounded by strong, independent women.
You want a family AND career? You make the personal decision to get into a career field that allows you the flexibility to do that. You make the personal decision NOT to take every promotion or move to "management". You can make over 100k as a Nurse with a 2 year degree and work shifts that allow you to be home with the kids. Millions of people do it. My wife has for 35 years. BUT, she passed up Management because the commitment didn't fit with having a family. I spent every night taking care of kids and NOT staying in the military because it didn't fit with having a family.
So, IF it is important you make the decisions that support it. Just like the irresponsible spending positions everyone here loves. If you want to be a CEO, Flag Officer or Spec Ops, it may not be in the cards. But, you make the decisions that support what IS important to you.
Bottomline, you want to see what is important to someone? Look at the decisions they make and made. The rest is lip service.
You are entitled to your opinions. I am going to do my best to encourage my daughter to try and find someone in college and start a family in her 20s. I wish I wouldve done that myself or just been more motivated to do so bc I wish I had more children. To me having a family is way more important thany any career. I am going to buy my daughter a house or even let her have my house or at least that is my goal. We have a lot of big families in my church and those people are very blessed and to me that it is the way it used to be and should still be.FLBear5630 said:I disagree that they can't have both. It is a matter of decisions. Funny, on finances it is all about making good decisions and bad decisions are the persons fault. But, with this it is a marketing issue...muddybrazos said:They should have a choice but they shouldnt be sold the lie that they can have both. They may be able to have both but if you tell women they can put off having kids until their mid 30s most of them wont be able to have more than 1 if any.whiterock said:the fruits of classical liberalism is that one can believe simultaneously in things which exist in tension.Realitybites said:The_barBEARian said:
I'm starting to believe democracy is destined to fail regardless of what part of the world its in.
Every major western democracy has birth rates for the native populations under the replenishment rate.
As a consequence we are seeing people from these more feudal societies in the developing world become a greater percentage of the global population.
They are immigrating to western democracies and creating enclaves that resemble their country of origin.
I saw something that estimated in the 1930ties Europeans and people of European descent accounted for about 1/3rd of the global population. Today is it around 7%.
The fruit of feminism. You can have large families or female fighter pilots but not both.
I believe the nuclear family is the bedrock of a civil society and that a woman's highest and best calling is being a mother (a choice my daughter-in-law made). A society which does not encourage that will literally die out. I also believe every individual should feel empowered to their own pursuit of happiness, to include eschewing marriage & children in order to pursue a challenging career (a choice my daughter made), or to pursue both as best as they could (a choice my wife and mother made). A society which cannot make room for that is not a civil society.
Some might quibble with the choices one or more of those women made. I feel quadruply blessed to be surrounded by strong, independent women.
You want a family AND career? You make the personal decision to get into a career field that allows you the flexibility to do that. You make the personal decision NOT to take every promotion or move to "management". You can make over 100k as a Nurse with a 2 year degree and work shifts that allow you to be home with the kids. Millions of people do it. My wife has for 35 years. BUT, she passed up Management because the commitment didn't fit with having a family. I spent every night taking care of kids and NOT staying in the military because it didn't fit with having a family.
So, IF it is important you make the decisions that support it. Just like the irresponsible spending positions everyone here loves. If you want to be a CEO, Flag Officer or Spec Ops, it may not be in the cards. But, you make the decisions that support what IS important to you.
Bottomline, you want to see what is important to someone? Look at the decisions they make and made. The rest is lip service.
edit - And my sister has a PHD from Tulane and and she is near 50 and a childless step mom who is one of the most unhappy people I know. Im sure there is some happy middle ground but I definitely dont want that for my daughter.
historian said:
It's really sad when someone's religion or obsession or whatever is some form of bigotry.
I find such religious bigotry to be positively bizarre.
Have never understood such attitudes.
Possibly rooted in envy; but who knows ?
I have a sister that has worked for the airlines same way, miserable.muddybrazos said:You are entitled to your opinions. I am going to do my best to encourage my daughter to try and find someone in college and start a family in her 20s. I wish I wouldve done that myself or just been more motivated to do so bc I wish I had more children. To me having a family is way more important thany any career. I am going to buy my daughter a house or even let her have my house or at least that is my goal. We have a lot of big families in my church and those people are very blessed and to me that it is the way it used to be and should still be.FLBear5630 said:I disagree that they can't have both. It is a matter of decisions. Funny, on finances it is all about making good decisions and bad decisions are the persons fault. But, with this it is a marketing issue...muddybrazos said:They should have a choice but they shouldnt be sold the lie that they can have both. They may be able to have both but if you tell women they can put off having kids until their mid 30s most of them wont be able to have more than 1 if any.whiterock said:the fruits of classical liberalism is that one can believe simultaneously in things which exist in tension.Realitybites said:The_barBEARian said:
I'm starting to believe democracy is destined to fail regardless of what part of the world its in.
Every major western democracy has birth rates for the native populations under the replenishment rate.
As a consequence we are seeing people from these more feudal societies in the developing world become a greater percentage of the global population.
They are immigrating to western democracies and creating enclaves that resemble their country of origin.
I saw something that estimated in the 1930ties Europeans and people of European descent accounted for about 1/3rd of the global population. Today is it around 7%.
The fruit of feminism. You can have large families or female fighter pilots but not both.
I believe the nuclear family is the bedrock of a civil society and that a woman's highest and best calling is being a mother (a choice my daughter-in-law made). A society which does not encourage that will literally die out. I also believe every individual should feel empowered to their own pursuit of happiness, to include eschewing marriage & children in order to pursue a challenging career (a choice my daughter made), or to pursue both as best as they could (a choice my wife and mother made). A society which cannot make room for that is not a civil society.
Some might quibble with the choices one or more of those women made. I feel quadruply blessed to be surrounded by strong, independent women.
You want a family AND career? You make the personal decision to get into a career field that allows you the flexibility to do that. You make the personal decision NOT to take every promotion or move to "management". You can make over 100k as a Nurse with a 2 year degree and work shifts that allow you to be home with the kids. Millions of people do it. My wife has for 35 years. BUT, she passed up Management because the commitment didn't fit with having a family. I spent every night taking care of kids and NOT staying in the military because it didn't fit with having a family.
So, IF it is important you make the decisions that support it. Just like the irresponsible spending positions everyone here loves. If you want to be a CEO, Flag Officer or Spec Ops, it may not be in the cards. But, you make the decisions that support what IS important to you.
Bottomline, you want to see what is important to someone? Look at the decisions they make and made. The rest is lip service.
edit - And my sister has a PHD from Tulane and and she is near 50 and a childless step mom who is one of the most unhappy people I know. Im sure there is some happy middle ground but I definitely dont want that for my daughter.
Well, my daughter wants the career. I keep telling her to watch the choices and the end game. Odds are you will not be the exception. 80/20 rule.
Quote:
You can make over 100k as a Nurse with a 2 year degree and work shifts that allow you to be home with the kids.
No you cannot. No ASN is making that sort of $ working a normally allotted shifts at one hospital. If you accept the geographic variability of travel nursing, it is possible. Otherwise you're going to have to get a BSN and move on to management, a CRNA, or ARNP position. But 100k as with an ASN working a normal number of shifts in one location? Not a chance.
KaiBear said:historian said:
It's really sad when someone's religion or obsession or whatever is some form of bigotry.
I find such religious bigotry to be positively bizarre.
Have never understood such attitudes.
Possibly rooted in envy; but who knows ?
When it comes to antisemitism, it probably is envy. That makes a lot of sense because the Jews, as a people, have great accomplishments throughout history. And this is despite almost everyone being against them throughout their history, including multiple attempts at genocide. Mark Twain thought it was due to envy. He wrote an essay on the subject.
I'm reminded what CS Lewis said about theism: the continued existence and prosperity of the Jews is a certain proof that God exists. No other facts adequately explain their success.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
muddybrazos said:You are entitled to your opinions. I am going to do my best to encourage my daughter to try and find someone in college and start a family in her 20s. I wish I wouldve done that myself or just been more motivated to do so bc I wish I had more children. To me having a family is way more important thany any career. I am going to buy my daughter a house or even let her have my house or at least that is my goal. We have a lot of big families in my church and those people are very blessed and to me that it is the way it used to be and should still be.FLBear5630 said:I disagree that they can't have both. It is a matter of decisions. Funny, on finances it is all about making good decisions and bad decisions are the persons fault. But, with this it is a marketing issue...muddybrazos said:They should have a choice but they shouldnt be sold the lie that they can have both. They may be able to have both but if you tell women they can put off having kids until their mid 30s most of them wont be able to have more than 1 if any.whiterock said:the fruits of classical liberalism is that one can believe simultaneously in things which exist in tension.Realitybites said:The_barBEARian said:
I'm starting to believe democracy is destined to fail regardless of what part of the world its in.
Every major western democracy has birth rates for the native populations under the replenishment rate.
As a consequence we are seeing people from these more feudal societies in the developing world become a greater percentage of the global population.
They are immigrating to western democracies and creating enclaves that resemble their country of origin.
I saw something that estimated in the 1930ties Europeans and people of European descent accounted for about 1/3rd of the global population. Today is it around 7%.
The fruit of feminism. You can have large families or female fighter pilots but not both.
I believe the nuclear family is the bedrock of a civil society and that a woman's highest and best calling is being a mother (a choice my daughter-in-law made). A society which does not encourage that will literally die out. I also believe every individual should feel empowered to their own pursuit of happiness, to include eschewing marriage & children in order to pursue a challenging career (a choice my daughter made), or to pursue both as best as they could (a choice my wife and mother made). A society which cannot make room for that is not a civil society.
Some might quibble with the choices one or more of those women made. I feel quadruply blessed to be surrounded by strong, independent women.
You want a family AND career? You make the personal decision to get into a career field that allows you the flexibility to do that. You make the personal decision NOT to take every promotion or move to "management". You can make over 100k as a Nurse with a 2 year degree and work shifts that allow you to be home with the kids. Millions of people do it. My wife has for 35 years. BUT, she passed up Management because the commitment didn't fit with having a family. I spent every night taking care of kids and NOT staying in the military because it didn't fit with having a family.
So, IF it is important you make the decisions that support it. Just like the irresponsible spending positions everyone here loves. If you want to be a CEO, Flag Officer or Spec Ops, it may not be in the cards. But, you make the decisions that support what IS important to you.
Bottomline, you want to see what is important to someone? Look at the decisions they make and made. The rest is lip service.
edit - And my sister has a PHD from Tulane and and she is near 50 and a childless step mom who is one of the most unhappy people I know. Im sure there is some happy middle ground but I definitely dont want that for my daughter.
I absolutely 100% agree with you.
My biggest regret was being a total introvert and not taking care of my health in college which kinda naturally selected myself out of the dating pool.
It really is the best time to find a partner.
You are never going to experience another period in life in which you will be surrounded by motivated, high value potential suitors
whiterock said:My wife (MBA holding Executive Director of a family of graduate degree programs) and mother (MA holding public school administrator & licensed professional counsellor) did have both. Both are preternaturally happy. Each have had regrets from time to time, but then, it's not unusual for men to have regrets about life choices, too, is it?muddybrazos said:They should have a choice but they shouldnt be sold the lie that they can have both. They may be able to have both but if you tell women they can put off having kids until their mid 30s most of them wont be able to have more than 1 if any.whiterock said:the fruits of classical liberalism is that one can believe simultaneously in things which exist in tension.Realitybites said:The_barBEARian said:
I'm starting to believe democracy is destined to fail regardless of what part of the world its in.
Every major western democracy has birth rates for the native populations under the replenishment rate.
As a consequence we are seeing people from these more feudal societies in the developing world become a greater percentage of the global population.
They are immigrating to western democracies and creating enclaves that resemble their country of origin.
I saw something that estimated in the 1930ties Europeans and people of European descent accounted for about 1/3rd of the global population. Today is it around 7%.
The fruit of feminism. You can have large families or female fighter pilots but not both.
I believe the nuclear family is the bedrock of a civil society and that a woman's highest and best calling is being a mother (a choice my daughter-in-law made). A society which does not encourage that will literally die out. I also believe every individual should feel empowered to their own pursuit of happiness, to include eschewing marriage & children in order to pursue a challenging career (a choice my daughter made), or to pursue both as best as they could (a choice my wife and mother made). A society which cannot make room for that is not a civil society.
Some might quibble with the choices one or more of those women made. I feel quadruply blessed to be surrounded by strong, independent women.
My daughter has a different set of issues, to include minor things like waiting for Mr. Right to show up at her front door unannounced with tux & tie, and also having a surprisingly small available pool of options (at smaller posts often with single-digit options available to her given her rank), but not the least of which is the fact that being literally the #1 raked officer in her career specialty scares off a lot of career-focused men.
My daughter-in-law is happy, but suffers from cabin fever (as many stay at home moms do) and of course is married to a man (and men do tend to exasperate their wives from time to time.)
Those 4 women could switch places and they'd still have regrets/joys, just a different portfolio mix of them.
LIfe is hard.
It's harder when you're close-minded.
I am very much a traditionalist when it comes to which ideals society should revere. But it doesn't take much grey matter to understand that career moms are not the cause of our demographic woes. Declining birth rates in prosperous societies is a dynamic as old as time.
I say this with all respect whiterock, you are lying to yourself and you know you'd be much happier with the grandkids than the "Girl Boss #1 ranked officer" daughter.
Despite our MANY disagreements, you're a decent, respectful guy and wish you the best!
Realitybites said:Quote:
You can make over 100k as a Nurse with a 2 year degree and work shifts that allow you to be home with the kids.
No you cannot. No ASN is making that sort of $ working a normally allotted shifts at one hospital. If you accept the geographic variability of travel nursing, it is possible. Otherwise you're going to have to get a BSN and move on to management, a CRNA, or ARNP position. But 100k as with an ASN working a normal number of shifts in one location? Not a chance.
Not to mention the purchasing power of $125k in 2025 is equal to purchasing power of $100k in 2020.
The value of the USD has gone down 25% since COVID.
You are working harder, making less and politicians are more concerned with whats going on in Eastern Europe or the Middle East.