The_barBEARian said:

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Realitybites said:

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Quote:

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You can make over 100k as a Nurse with a 2 year degree and work shifts that allow you to be home with the kids.

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No you cannot. No ASN is making that sort of $ working a normally allotted shifts at one hospital. If you accept the geographic variability of travel nursing, it is possible. Otherwise you're going to have to get a BSN and move on to management, a CRNA, or ARNP position. But 100k as with an ASN working a normal number of shifts in one location? Not a chance.

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Not to mention the purchasing power of $125k in 2025 is equal to purchasing power of $100k in 2020.

The value of the USD has gone down 25% since COVID.

You are working harder, making less and politicians are more concerned with whats going on in Eastern Europe or the Middle East.

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This is all due to the boneheaded decision to shut down the economy in 2020. Throw Biden's disruption and Trump's disruption and no wonder inflation is high. This is mostly Trump's and Biden's mess.

FLBear5630 said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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Realitybites said:

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Quote:

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You can make over 100k as a Nurse with a 2 year degree and work shifts that allow you to be home with the kids.

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No you cannot. No ASN is making that sort of $ working a normally allotted shifts at one hospital. If you accept the geographic variability of travel nursing, it is possible. Otherwise you're going to have to get a BSN and move on to management, a CRNA, or ARNP position. But 100k as with an ASN working a normal number of shifts in one location? Not a chance.

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Not to mention the purchasing power of $125k in 2025 is equal to purchasing power of $100k in 2020.

The value of the USD has gone down 25% since COVID.

You are working harder, making less and politicians are more concerned with whats going on in Eastern Europe or the Middle East.

---

This is all due to the boneheaded decision to shut down the economy in 2020. Throw Biden's disruption and Trump's disruption and no wonder inflation is high. This is mostly Trump's and Biden's mess.

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True...

You can certainly tell the difference.

The mouthwash I bought this morning is the same that I used in 2019. Back then, it ran about $5.50 per bottle. My last bottle cost me $9.50.

Honestly, I don't know how a family with a household income of $75,000/ year makes it anymore. In my childhood, that household income would buy you a great house in a great neighborhood with a nice car. Today? You may be able to get by.

And yet, we still have kids running up $100k/ year loans for college courses that will never pay for the costs of living.

And nobody seems to care that this is neither economically nor politically sustainable.

muddybrazos said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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muddybrazos said:

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whiterock said:

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Realitybites said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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I'm starting to believe democracy is destined to fail regardless of what part of the world its in.

Every major western democracy has birth rates for the native populations under the replenishment rate.

As a consequence we are seeing people from these more feudal societies in the developing world become a greater percentage of the global population.

They are immigrating to western democracies and creating enclaves that resemble their country of origin.

I saw something that estimated in the 1930ties Europeans and people of European descent accounted for about 1/3rd of the global population. Today is it around 7%.

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The fruit of feminism. You can have large families or female fighter pilots but not both.

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the fruits of classical liberalism is that one can believe simultaneously in things which exist in tension.

I believe the nuclear family is the bedrock of a civil society and that a woman's highest and best calling is being a mother (a choice my daughter-in-law made). A society which does not encourage that will literally die out. I also believe every individual should feel empowered to their own pursuit of happiness, to include eschewing marriage & children in order to pursue a challenging career (a choice my daughter made), or to pursue both as best as they could (a choice my wife and mother made). A society which cannot make room for that is not a civil society.

Some might quibble with the choices one or more of those women made. I feel quadruply blessed to be surrounded by strong, independent women.

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They should have a choice but they shouldnt be sold the lie that they can have both. They may be able to have both but if you tell women they can put off having kids until their mid 30s most of them wont be able to have more than 1 if any.

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I disagree that they can't have both. It is a matter of decisions. Funny, on finances it is all about making good decisions and bad decisions are the persons fault. But, with this it is a marketing issue...

You want a family AND career? You make the personal decision to get into a career field that allows you the flexibility to do that. You make the personal decision NOT to take every promotion or move to "management". You can make over 100k as a Nurse with a 2 year degree and work shifts that allow you to be home with the kids. Millions of people do it. My wife has for 35 years. BUT, she passed up Management because the commitment didn't fit with having a family. I spent every night taking care of kids and NOT staying in the military because it didn't fit with having a family.

So, IF it is important you make the decisions that support it. Just like the irresponsible spending positions everyone here loves. If you want to be a CEO, Flag Officer or Spec Ops, it may not be in the cards. But, you make the decisions that support what IS important to you.

Bottomline, you want to see what is important to someone? Look at the decisions they make and made. The rest is lip service.

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You are entitled to your opinions. I am going to do my best to encourage my daughter to try and find someone in college and start a family in her 20s. I wish I wouldve done that myself or just been more motivated to do so bc I wish I had more children. To me having a family is way more important thany any career. I am going to buy my daughter a house or even let her have my house or at least that is my goal. We have a lot of big families in my church and those people are very blessed and to me that it is the way it used to be and should still be.

edit - And my sister has a PHD from Tulane and and she is near 50 and a childless step mom who is one of the most unhappy people I know. Im sure there is some happy middle ground but I definitely dont want that for my daughter.

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I know that. Both my two sons have passed. My ex and I haven't spoken in years. Now I'm in my older age with no one to look after me. Luckily I still have good friends.

Yogi said:

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You can certainly tell the difference.

The mouthwash I bought this morning is the same that I used in 2019. Back then, it ran about $5.50 per bottle. My last bottle cost me $9.50.

Honestly, I don't know how a family with a household income of $75,000/ year makes it anymore. In my childhood, that household income would buy you a great house in a great neighborhood with a nice car. Today? You may be able to get by.

And yet, we still have kids running up $100k/ year loans for college courses that will never pay for the costs of living.

And nobody seems to care that this is neither economically nor politically sustainable.

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You're absolutely correct. There's a widespread sense in people under 40 that the Boomers pulled the ladder up after them, and are shut out of the American Dream. We're either going to fix capitalism or as the Boomers and Gen X age, people like Mamdani, AOC, and Sanders are going to continue to gain an audience. Just saying "you're stupid to believe in socialism" isn't going to cut it anymore than "Christians must support Israel."

The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

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muddybrazos said:

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whiterock said:

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Realitybites said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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I'm starting to believe democracy is destined to fail regardless of what part of the world its in.

Every major western democracy has birth rates for the native populations under the replenishment rate.

As a consequence we are seeing people from these more feudal societies in the developing world become a greater percentage of the global population.

They are immigrating to western democracies and creating enclaves that resemble their country of origin.

I saw something that estimated in the 1930ties Europeans and people of European descent accounted for about 1/3rd of the global population. Today is it around 7%.

---

The fruit of feminism. You can have large families or female fighter pilots but not both.

---

the fruits of classical liberalism is that one can believe simultaneously in things which exist in tension.

I believe the nuclear family is the bedrock of a civil society and that a woman's highest and best calling is being a mother (a choice my daughter-in-law made). A society which does not encourage that will literally die out. I also believe every individual should feel empowered to their own pursuit of happiness, to include eschewing marriage & children in order to pursue a challenging career (a choice my daughter made), or to pursue both as best as they could (a choice my wife and mother made). A society which cannot make room for that is not a civil society.

Some might quibble with the choices one or more of those women made. I feel quadruply blessed to be surrounded by strong, independent women.

---

They should have a choice but they shouldnt be sold the lie that they can have both. They may be able to have both but if you tell women they can put off having kids until their mid 30s most of them wont be able to have more than 1 if any.

---

My wife (MBA holding Executive Director of a family of graduate degree programs) and mother (MA holding public school administrator & licensed professional counsellor) did have both. Both are preternaturally happy. Each have had regrets from time to time, but then, it's not unusual for men to have regrets about life choices, too, is it?

My daughter has a different set of issues, to include minor things like waiting for Mr. Right to show up at her front door unannounced with tux & tie, and also having a surprisingly small available pool of options (at smaller posts often with single-digit options available to her given her rank), but not the least of which is the fact that being literally the #1 raked officer in her career specialty scares off a lot of career-focused men.

My daughter-in-law is happy, but suffers from cabin fever (as many stay at home moms do) and of course is married to a man (and men do tend to exasperate their wives from time to time.)

Those 4 women could switch places and they'd still have regrets/joys, just a different portfolio mix of them.
LIfe is hard.
It's harder when you're close-minded.

I am very much a traditionalist when it comes to which ideals society should revere. But it doesn't take much grey matter to understand that career moms are not the cause of our demographic woes. Declining birth rates in prosperous societies is a dynamic as old as time.

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I say this with all respect whiterock, you are lying to yourself and you know you'd be much happier with the grandkids than the "Girl Boss #1 ranked officer" daughter.

Despite our MANY disagreements, you're a decent, respectful guy and wish you the best!

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aaaahhh but I have both. I have a highly accomplished daughter, who will be pinned LtC in January and at minimum retire a Colonel and seems to be well on her way to earning a star. Either way, she will likely move on to private sector and end up a CEO of something. Coach Teaff watched her grow up at church. Every time he asks about her he says "how is the General." She was just born to lead, and she's doing it. I don't think I could possibly be any more proud.

My son is made differently but no less inspiring. And he has given me a granddaughter. A grandson will be here around Thanksgiving, and will be named after me. If my daughter-in-law has any say in it, more will follow. I don't think I could be any happier with that. 2 grandkids, 3...4....I mean I just don't see how the number of things lead to arithmetic increase in happiness

And I created all that with my wife, the best life-partner anyone could ask for.
And my 88yr old mom can still sit like an indian on the floor with my granddaughter and get up unassisted.

I mean, I just don't see how fiddling with that could elevate the orbit much.
But I will not miss an opportunity to tell you go go have more kids, dammit!

whiterock said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

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muddybrazos said:

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whiterock said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

I'm starting to believe democracy is destined to fail regardless of what part of the world its in.

Every major western democracy has birth rates for the native populations under the replenishment rate.

As a consequence we are seeing people from these more feudal societies in the developing world become a greater percentage of the global population.

They are immigrating to western democracies and creating enclaves that resemble their country of origin.

I saw something that estimated in the 1930ties Europeans and people of European descent accounted for about 1/3rd of the global population. Today is it around 7%.

---

The fruit of feminism. You can have large families or female fighter pilots but not both.

---

the fruits of classical liberalism is that one can believe simultaneously in things which exist in tension.

I believe the nuclear family is the bedrock of a civil society and that a woman's highest and best calling is being a mother (a choice my daughter-in-law made). A society which does not encourage that will literally die out. I also believe every individual should feel empowered to their own pursuit of happiness, to include eschewing marriage & children in order to pursue a challenging career (a choice my daughter made), or to pursue both as best as they could (a choice my wife and mother made). A society which cannot make room for that is not a civil society.

Some might quibble with the choices one or more of those women made. I feel quadruply blessed to be surrounded by strong, independent women.

---

They should have a choice but they shouldnt be sold the lie that they can have both. They may be able to have both but if you tell women they can put off having kids until their mid 30s most of them wont be able to have more than 1 if any.

---

My wife (MBA holding Executive Director of a family of graduate degree programs) and mother (MA holding public school administrator & licensed professional counsellor) did have both. Both are preternaturally happy. Each have had regrets from time to time, but then, it's not unusual for men to have regrets about life choices, too, is it?

My daughter has a different set of issues, to include minor things like waiting for Mr. Right to show up at her front door unannounced with tux & tie, and also having a surprisingly small available pool of options (at smaller posts often with single-digit options available to her given her rank), but not the least of which is the fact that being literally the #1 raked officer in her career specialty scares off a lot of career-focused men.

My daughter-in-law is happy, but suffers from cabin fever (as many stay at home moms do) and of course is married to a man (and men do tend to exasperate their wives from time to time.)

Those 4 women could switch places and they'd still have regrets/joys, just a different portfolio mix of them.
LIfe is hard.
It's harder when you're close-minded.

I am very much a traditionalist when it comes to which ideals society should revere. But it doesn't take much grey matter to understand that career moms are not the cause of our demographic woes. Declining birth rates in prosperous societies is a dynamic as old as time.

---

I say this with all respect whiterock, you are lying to yourself and you know you'd be much happier with the grandkids than the "Girl Boss #1 ranked officer" daughter.

Despite our MANY disagreements, you're a decent, respectful guy and wish you the best!

---

aaaahhh but I have both. I have a highly accomplished daughter, who will be pinned LtC in January and at minimum retire a Colonel and seems to be well on her way to earning a star. Either way, she will likely move on to private sector and end up a CEO of something. Coach Teaff watched her grow up at church. Every time he asks about her he says "how is the General." She was just born to lead, and she's doing it. I don't think I could possibly be any more proud.

My son is made differently but no less inspiring. And he has given me a granddaughter. A grandson will be here around Thanksgiving, and will be named after me. If my daughter-in-law has any say in it, more will follow. I don't think I could be any happier with that. 2 grandkids, 3...4....I mean I just don't see how the number of things lead to arithmetic increase in happiness

And I created all that with my wife, the best life-partner anyone could ask for.
And my 88yr old mom can still sit like an indian on the floor with my granddaughter and get up unassisted.

I mean, I just don't see how fiddling with that could elevate the orbit much.
But I will not miss an opportunity to tell you go go have more kids, dammit!

---

I would beg them not to name the grandson Whiterock... can you imagine a mixed schoolyard?

Assassin said:

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whiterock said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

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muddybrazos said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

I'm starting to believe democracy is destined to fail regardless of what part of the world its in.

Every major western democracy has birth rates for the native populations under the replenishment rate.

As a consequence we are seeing people from these more feudal societies in the developing world become a greater percentage of the global population.

They are immigrating to western democracies and creating enclaves that resemble their country of origin.

I saw something that estimated in the 1930ties Europeans and people of European descent accounted for about 1/3rd of the global population. Today is it around 7%.

---

The fruit of feminism. You can have large families or female fighter pilots but not both.

---

the fruits of classical liberalism is that one can believe simultaneously in things which exist in tension.

I believe the nuclear family is the bedrock of a civil society and that a woman's highest and best calling is being a mother (a choice my daughter-in-law made). A society which does not encourage that will literally die out. I also believe every individual should feel empowered to their own pursuit of happiness, to include eschewing marriage & children in order to pursue a challenging career (a choice my daughter made), or to pursue both as best as they could (a choice my wife and mother made). A society which cannot make room for that is not a civil society.

Some might quibble with the choices one or more of those women made. I feel quadruply blessed to be surrounded by strong, independent women.

---

They should have a choice but they shouldnt be sold the lie that they can have both. They may be able to have both but if you tell women they can put off having kids until their mid 30s most of them wont be able to have more than 1 if any.

---

My wife (MBA holding Executive Director of a family of graduate degree programs) and mother (MA holding public school administrator & licensed professional counsellor) did have both. Both are preternaturally happy. Each have had regrets from time to time, but then, it's not unusual for men to have regrets about life choices, too, is it?

My daughter has a different set of issues, to include minor things like waiting for Mr. Right to show up at her front door unannounced with tux & tie, and also having a surprisingly small available pool of options (at smaller posts often with single-digit options available to her given her rank), but not the least of which is the fact that being literally the #1 raked officer in her career specialty scares off a lot of career-focused men.

My daughter-in-law is happy, but suffers from cabin fever (as many stay at home moms do) and of course is married to a man (and men do tend to exasperate their wives from time to time.)

Those 4 women could switch places and they'd still have regrets/joys, just a different portfolio mix of them.
LIfe is hard.
It's harder when you're close-minded.

I am very much a traditionalist when it comes to which ideals society should revere. But it doesn't take much grey matter to understand that career moms are not the cause of our demographic woes. Declining birth rates in prosperous societies is a dynamic as old as time.

---

I say this with all respect whiterock, you are lying to yourself and you know you'd be much happier with the grandkids than the "Girl Boss #1 ranked officer" daughter.

Despite our MANY disagreements, you're a decent, respectful guy and wish you the best!

---

aaaahhh but I have both. I have a highly accomplished daughter, who will be pinned LtC in January and at minimum retire a Colonel and seems to be well on her way to earning a star. Either way, she will likely move on to private sector and end up a CEO of something. Coach Teaff watched her grow up at church. Every time he asks about her he says "how is the General." She was just born to lead, and she's doing it. I don't think I could possibly be any more proud.

My son is made differently but no less inspiring. And he has given me a granddaughter. A grandson will be here around Thanksgiving, and will be named after me. If my daughter-in-law has any say in it, more will follow. I don't think I could be any happier with that. 2 grandkids, 3...4....I mean I just don't see how the number of things lead to arithmetic increase in happiness

And I created all that with my wife, the best life-partner anyone could ask for.
And my 88yr old mom can still sit like an indian on the floor with my granddaughter and get up unassisted.

I mean, I just don't see how fiddling with that could elevate the orbit much.
But I will not miss an opportunity to tell you go go have more kids, dammit!

---

I would beg them not to name the grandson Whiterock... can you imagine a mixed schoolyard?

---

LOL "....life wasn't easy for a boy named Sue...."

whiterock said:

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Assassin said:

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whiterock said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

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muddybrazos said:

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whiterock said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

I'm starting to believe democracy is destined to fail regardless of what part of the world its in.

Every major western democracy has birth rates for the native populations under the replenishment rate.

As a consequence we are seeing people from these more feudal societies in the developing world become a greater percentage of the global population.

They are immigrating to western democracies and creating enclaves that resemble their country of origin.

I saw something that estimated in the 1930ties Europeans and people of European descent accounted for about 1/3rd of the global population. Today is it around 7%.

---

The fruit of feminism. You can have large families or female fighter pilots but not both.

---

the fruits of classical liberalism is that one can believe simultaneously in things which exist in tension.

I believe the nuclear family is the bedrock of a civil society and that a woman's highest and best calling is being a mother (a choice my daughter-in-law made). A society which does not encourage that will literally die out. I also believe every individual should feel empowered to their own pursuit of happiness, to include eschewing marriage & children in order to pursue a challenging career (a choice my daughter made), or to pursue both as best as they could (a choice my wife and mother made). A society which cannot make room for that is not a civil society.

Some might quibble with the choices one or more of those women made. I feel quadruply blessed to be surrounded by strong, independent women.

---

They should have a choice but they shouldnt be sold the lie that they can have both. They may be able to have both but if you tell women they can put off having kids until their mid 30s most of them wont be able to have more than 1 if any.

---

My wife (MBA holding Executive Director of a family of graduate degree programs) and mother (MA holding public school administrator & licensed professional counsellor) did have both. Both are preternaturally happy. Each have had regrets from time to time, but then, it's not unusual for men to have regrets about life choices, too, is it?

My daughter has a different set of issues, to include minor things like waiting for Mr. Right to show up at her front door unannounced with tux & tie, and also having a surprisingly small available pool of options (at smaller posts often with single-digit options available to her given her rank), but not the least of which is the fact that being literally the #1 raked officer in her career specialty scares off a lot of career-focused men.

My daughter-in-law is happy, but suffers from cabin fever (as many stay at home moms do) and of course is married to a man (and men do tend to exasperate their wives from time to time.)

Those 4 women could switch places and they'd still have regrets/joys, just a different portfolio mix of them.
LIfe is hard.
It's harder when you're close-minded.

I am very much a traditionalist when it comes to which ideals society should revere. But it doesn't take much grey matter to understand that career moms are not the cause of our demographic woes. Declining birth rates in prosperous societies is a dynamic as old as time.

---

I say this with all respect whiterock, you are lying to yourself and you know you'd be much happier with the grandkids than the "Girl Boss #1 ranked officer" daughter.

Despite our MANY disagreements, you're a decent, respectful guy and wish you the best!

---

aaaahhh but I have both. I have a highly accomplished daughter, who will be pinned LtC in January and at minimum retire a Colonel and seems to be well on her way to earning a star. Either way, she will likely move on to private sector and end up a CEO of something. Coach Teaff watched her grow up at church. Every time he asks about her he says "how is the General." She was just born to lead, and she's doing it. I don't think I could possibly be any more proud.

My son is made differently but no less inspiring. And he has given me a granddaughter. A grandson will be here around Thanksgiving, and will be named after me. If my daughter-in-law has any say in it, more will follow. I don't think I could be any happier with that. 2 grandkids, 3...4....I mean I just don't see how the number of things lead to arithmetic increase in happiness

And I created all that with my wife, the best life-partner anyone could ask for.
And my 88yr old mom can still sit like an indian on the floor with my granddaughter and get up unassisted.

I mean, I just don't see how fiddling with that could elevate the orbit much.
But I will not miss an opportunity to tell you go go have more kids, dammit!

---

I would beg them not to name the grandson Whiterock... can you imagine a mixed schoolyard?

---

LOL "....life wasn't easy for a boy named Sue...."

---

Johnny had that right!

whiterock said:

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I have a highly accomplished daughter, who will be pinned LtC in January and at minimum retire a Colonel and seems to be well on her way to earning a star. Either way, she will likely move on to private sector and end up a CEO of something. Coach Teaff watched her grow up at church. Every time he asks about her he says "how is the General." She was just born to lead, and she's doing it. I don't think I could possibly be any more proud.

My son is made differently but no less inspiring. And he has given me a granddaughter. A grandson will be here around Thanksgiving, and will be named after me. If my daughter-in-law has any say in it, more will follow. I don't think I could be any happier with that. 2 grandkids, 3...4....I mean I just don't see how the number of things lead to arithmetic increase in happiness

---

The inability of Boomers to look beyond the end of their noses past "I got mine" never ceases to amaze me.

Yogi said:

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You can certainly tell the difference.

The mouthwash I bought this morning is the same that I used in 2019. Back then, it ran about $5.50 per bottle. My last bottle cost me $9.50.

Honestly, I don't know how a family with a household income of $75,000/ year makes it anymore. In my childhood, that household income would buy you a great house in a great neighborhood with a nice car. Today? You may be able to get by.

And yet, we still have kids running up $100k/ year loans for college courses that will never pay for the costs of living.

And nobody seems to care that this is neither economically nor politically sustainable.

---

$75k in your childhood is the equivalent of $165k today.

You can still make it on 75k. You just don't have very nice stuff.

whiterock said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Realitybites said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

I'm starting to believe democracy is destined to fail regardless of what part of the world its in.

Every major western democracy has birth rates for the native populations under the replenishment rate.

As a consequence we are seeing people from these more feudal societies in the developing world become a greater percentage of the global population.

They are immigrating to western democracies and creating enclaves that resemble their country of origin.

I saw something that estimated in the 1930ties Europeans and people of European descent accounted for about 1/3rd of the global population. Today is it around 7%.

---

The fruit of feminism. You can have large families or female fighter pilots but not both.

---

the fruits of classical liberalism is that one can believe simultaneously in things which exist in tension.

I believe the nuclear family is the bedrock of a civil society and that a woman's highest and best calling is being a mother (a choice my daughter-in-law made). A society which does not encourage that will literally die out. I also believe every individual should feel empowered to their own pursuit of happiness, to include eschewing marriage & children in order to pursue a challenging career (a choice my daughter made), or to pursue both as best as they could (a choice my wife and mother made). A society which cannot make room for that is not a civil society.

Some might quibble with the choices one or more of those women made. I feel quadruply blessed to be surrounded by strong, independent women.

---

They should have a choice but they shouldnt be sold the lie that they can have both. They may be able to have both but if you tell women they can put off having kids until their mid 30s most of them wont be able to have more than 1 if any.

---

My wife (MBA holding Executive Director of a family of graduate degree programs) and mother (MA holding public school administrator & licensed professional counsellor) did have both. Both are preternaturally happy. Each have had regrets from time to time, but then, it's not unusual for men to have regrets about life choices, too, is it?

My daughter has a different set of issues, to include minor things like waiting for Mr. Right to show up at her front door unannounced with tux & tie, and also having a surprisingly small available pool of options (at smaller posts often with single-digit options available to her given her rank), but not the least of which is the fact that being literally the #1 raked officer in her career specialty scares off a lot of career-focused men.

My daughter-in-law is happy, but suffers from cabin fever (as many stay at home moms do) and of course is married to a man (and men do tend to exasperate their wives from time to time.)

Those 4 women could switch places and they'd still have regrets/joys, just a different portfolio mix of them.
LIfe is hard.
It's harder when you're close-minded.

I am very much a traditionalist when it comes to which ideals society should revere. But it doesn't take much grey matter to understand that career moms are not the cause of our demographic woes. Declining birth rates in prosperous societies is a dynamic as old as time.

---

I say this with all respect whiterock, you are lying to yourself and you know you'd be much happier with the grandkids than the "Girl Boss #1 ranked officer" daughter.

Despite our MANY disagreements, you're a decent, respectful guy and wish you the best!

---

aaaahhh but I have both. I have a highly accomplished daughter, who will be pinned LtC in January and at minimum retire a Colonel and seems to be well on her way to earning a star. Either way, she will likely move on to private sector and end up a CEO of something. Coach Teaff watched her grow up at church. Every time he asks about her he says "how is the General." She was just born to lead, and she's doing it. I don't think I could possibly be any more proud.

My son is made differently but no less inspiring. And he has given me a granddaughter. A grandson will be here around Thanksgiving, and will be named after me. If my daughter-in-law has any say in it, more will follow. I don't think I could be any happier with that. 2 grandkids, 3...4....I mean I just don't see how the number of things lead to arithmetic increase in happiness

And I created all that with my wife, the best life-partner anyone could ask for.
And my 88yr old mom can still sit like an indian on the floor with my granddaughter and get up unassisted.

I mean, I just don't see how fiddling with that could elevate the orbit much.
But I will not miss an opportunity to tell you go go have more kids, dammit!

---

Congratulations on the expecting grandchild!

Assassin said:

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whiterock said:

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Assassin said:

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whiterock said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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whiterock said:

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muddybrazos said:

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whiterock said:

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Realitybites said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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I'm starting to believe democracy is destined to fail regardless of what part of the world its in.

Every major western democracy has birth rates for the native populations under the replenishment rate.

As a consequence we are seeing people from these more feudal societies in the developing world become a greater percentage of the global population.

They are immigrating to western democracies and creating enclaves that resemble their country of origin.

I saw something that estimated in the 1930ties Europeans and people of European descent accounted for about 1/3rd of the global population. Today is it around 7%.

---

The fruit of feminism. You can have large families or female fighter pilots but not both.

---

the fruits of classical liberalism is that one can believe simultaneously in things which exist in tension.

I believe the nuclear family is the bedrock of a civil society and that a woman's highest and best calling is being a mother (a choice my daughter-in-law made). A society which does not encourage that will literally die out. I also believe every individual should feel empowered to their own pursuit of happiness, to include eschewing marriage & children in order to pursue a challenging career (a choice my daughter made), or to pursue both as best as they could (a choice my wife and mother made). A society which cannot make room for that is not a civil society.

Some might quibble with the choices one or more of those women made. I feel quadruply blessed to be surrounded by strong, independent women.

---

They should have a choice but they shouldnt be sold the lie that they can have both. They may be able to have both but if you tell women they can put off having kids until their mid 30s most of them wont be able to have more than 1 if any.

---

My wife (MBA holding Executive Director of a family of graduate degree programs) and mother (MA holding public school administrator & licensed professional counsellor) did have both. Both are preternaturally happy. Each have had regrets from time to time, but then, it's not unusual for men to have regrets about life choices, too, is it?

My daughter has a different set of issues, to include minor things like waiting for Mr. Right to show up at her front door unannounced with tux & tie, and also having a surprisingly small available pool of options (at smaller posts often with single-digit options available to her given her rank), but not the least of which is the fact that being literally the #1 raked officer in her career specialty scares off a lot of career-focused men.

My daughter-in-law is happy, but suffers from cabin fever (as many stay at home moms do) and of course is married to a man (and men do tend to exasperate their wives from time to time.)

Those 4 women could switch places and they'd still have regrets/joys, just a different portfolio mix of them.
LIfe is hard.
It's harder when you're close-minded.

I am very much a traditionalist when it comes to which ideals society should revere. But it doesn't take much grey matter to understand that career moms are not the cause of our demographic woes. Declining birth rates in prosperous societies is a dynamic as old as time.

---

I say this with all respect whiterock, you are lying to yourself and you know you'd be much happier with the grandkids than the "Girl Boss #1 ranked officer" daughter.

Despite our MANY disagreements, you're a decent, respectful guy and wish you the best!

---

aaaahhh but I have both. I have a highly accomplished daughter, who will be pinned LtC in January and at minimum retire a Colonel and seems to be well on her way to earning a star. Either way, she will likely move on to private sector and end up a CEO of something. Coach Teaff watched her grow up at church. Every time he asks about her he says "how is the General." She was just born to lead, and she's doing it. I don't think I could possibly be any more proud.

My son is made differently but no less inspiring. And he has given me a granddaughter. A grandson will be here around Thanksgiving, and will be named after me. If my daughter-in-law has any say in it, more will follow. I don't think I could be any happier with that. 2 grandkids, 3...4....I mean I just don't see how the number of things lead to arithmetic increase in happiness

And I created all that with my wife, the best life-partner anyone could ask for.
And my 88yr old mom can still sit like an indian on the floor with my granddaughter and get up unassisted.

I mean, I just don't see how fiddling with that could elevate the orbit much.
But I will not miss an opportunity to tell you go go have more kids, dammit!

---

I would beg them not to name the grandson Whiterock... can you imagine a mixed schoolyard?

---

LOL "....life wasn't easy for a boy named Sue...."

---

Johnny had that right!

---

Johnny brought it to life… but that song was actually written by Shel Silverstein. That surprised me when I found out.

Breaking News: Israel has concluded that some of Iran’s stockpile of near-bomb-grade uranium survived American strikes, according to a senior Israeli official. https://t.co/HQV4jc659S

— The New York Times (@nytimes) July 10, 2025

BREAKING:

Rubio says Ukraine has killed 100 000 Russian soldiers just in the past 7 months pic.twitter.com/jyINzo133K

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) July 10, 2025

boognish_bear said:

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Breaking News: Israel has concluded that some of Iran’s stockpile of near-bomb-grade uranium survived American strikes, according to a senior Israeli official. https://t.co/HQV4jc659S

— The New York Times (@nytimes) July 10, 2025

---

That's a very different story from what Israel says. They say it's buried deep;

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/senior-israeli-official-says-intel-suggests-iran-didnt-remove-enriched-uranium-from-sites-targeted-by-us-strikes/

🚨🇬🇧 New Footage of the Female Police Officer who was assaulted & had her nose broken in Manchester Airport is released ‼️ pic.twitter.com/XyO4hc5gZp

— Concerned Citizen (@BGatesIsaPyscho) July 10, 2025

A "Girl Boss" Police Officer melting down after a physical altercation with a "British" man... should we thank the fruits of classical liberalism for this?

They didn't punt him in the head hard enough.

Remigration continues to be the civil option on the table. pic.twitter.com/ZTJ53zE50B

— Lucky Teter (@TheMagaHulk) July 10, 2025

The entire confrontation for anyone interested.

3 male suspects.

3 cops, 1 male & 2 females

The single male cop has to singlehandedly subdue all three male suspects after the smallest of the 3 male suspects beats the **** out of the two female police officers attempting to detain him.

I think Trump this one right. Iran is greatly weakened and the bomb is delayed significantly.

Realitybites said:

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whiterock said:

---

I have a highly accomplished daughter, who will be pinned LtC in January and at minimum retire a Colonel and seems to be well on her way to earning a star. Either way, she will likely move on to private sector and end up a CEO of something. Coach Teaff watched her grow up at church. Every time he asks about her he says "how is the General." She was just born to lead, and she's doing it. I don't think I could possibly be any more proud.

My son is made differently but no less inspiring. And he has given me a granddaughter. A grandson will be here around Thanksgiving, and will be named after me. If my daughter-in-law has any say in it, more will follow. I don't think I could be any happier with that. 2 grandkids, 3...4....I mean I just don't see how the number of things lead to arithmetic increase in happiness

---

The inability of Boomers to look beyond the end of their noses past "I got mine" never ceases to amaze me.

---

never underestimate the callowness of youth. Lifelong accomplishments cannot be handed to you, son. You have to do the work.

The_barBEARian said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Good point, I had not considered you could be all three ...

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What is with the Boomer thing?

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It's what the yutes call people who they're losing an argument to.

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I won the argument bcs I was the magnanimous one and extended an olive branch to the guy despite his ridiculous lies(I never wished death on him).

I chose class and grace over his childish hate and abuse.

It's only a reflection of his character if he is unable to reciprocate.

I enjoy these moments where I can demonstrate virtues like tolerance and restraint to the feral cretins on this board.

As an Anglo American, it is my burden to lead by example. If I lose control, how can I expect any of you to remain civil?

---

2 shows nightly?

Do you usually draw a big crowd?

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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TinFoilHatPreacherBear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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The_barBEARian said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Good point, I had not considered you could be all three ...

---

---

What is with the Boomer thing?

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It's what the yutes call people who they're losing an argument to.

---

I won the argument bcs I was the magnanimous one and extended an olive branch to the guy despite his ridiculous lies(I never wished death on him).

I chose class and grace over his childish hate and abuse.

It's only a reflection of his character if he is unable to reciprocate.

I enjoy these moments where I can demonstrate virtues like tolerance and restraint to the feral cretins on this board.

As an Anglo American, it is my burden to lead by example. If I lose control, how can I expect any of you to remain civil?

---

2 shows nightly?

Do you usually draw a big crowd?

---

Stil trying to get over the "I won the argument..." part

Yogi said:

---

You can certainly tell the difference.

The mouthwash I bought this morning is the same that I used in 2019. Back then, it ran about $5.50 per bottle. My last bottle cost me $9.50.

Honestly, I don't know how a family with a household income of $75,000/ year makes it anymore. In my childhood, that household income would buy you a great house in a great neighborhood with a nice car. Today? You may be able to get by.

And yet, we still have kids running up $100k/ year loans for college courses that will never pay for the costs of living.

And nobody seems to care that this is neither economically nor politically sustainable.

---

Just a personal hygiene tip, mouthwash is meant to be used daily, not every 6 years.

Yogi said:

---

You can certainly tell the difference.

The mouthwash I bought this morning is the same that I used in 2019. Back then, it ran about $5.50 per bottle. My last bottle cost me $9.50.

Honestly, I don't know how a family with a household income of $75,000/ year makes it anymore. In my childhood, that household income would buy you a great house in a great neighborhood with a nice car. Today? You may be able to get by.

And yet, we still have kids running up $100k/ year loans for college courses that will never pay for the costs of living.

And nobody seems to care that this is neither economically nor politically sustainable.

---

So very true.

Colleges need to pull back on the degrees they offer. If a degree cannot get a person a job, as in there isn't a field that uses that degree, then it should be done away with.

Colleges should also do away with or revamp the "basics" needed. I still to this day have never needed British Lit from high school or college. It has never once helped me or probably anyone else get a job that wasn't a Brit lit teacher/professor.

cowboycwr said:

---

Yogi said:

---

You can certainly tell the difference.

The mouthwash I bought this morning is the same that I used in 2019. Back then, it ran about $5.50 per bottle. My last bottle cost me $9.50.

Honestly, I don't know how a family with a household income of $75,000/ year makes it anymore. In my childhood, that household income would buy you a great house in a great neighborhood with a nice car. Today? You may be able to get by.

And yet, we still have kids running up $100k/ year loans for college courses that will never pay for the costs of living.

And nobody seems to care that this is neither economically nor politically sustainable.

---

So very true.

Colleges need to pull back on the degrees they offer. If a degree cannot get a person a job, as in there isn't a field that uses that degree, then it should be done away with.

Colleges should also do away with or revamp the "basics" needed. I still to this day have never needed British Lit from high school or college. It has never once helped me or probably anyone else get a job that wasn't a Brit lit teacher/professor.

---

Sorry, disagree with you here. Higher education is supposed to be about more than getting a job. You may be the best accountant, lawyer or doctor in the world but if you are ignorant of Shakespear you are nothing more than a well trained idiot.

If you are going to a Higher Education institution the culture of the west and east is important to learn. 6 credit hours is not a big lift.

Otherwise, go and be a paralegal, bookkeeper or physicians assistant. There are already vocational schools out there. You go to Baylor, you better come out knowing something of Literature, History, and Philosophy. What you do with it is up to you... Maybe being able to go to NASCAR in the afternoon and the theater in the evening is the sign of a well rounded person...

NEW| Iranian personnel have not made any visible attempts to access the underground areas of the Esfahan Nuclear Technology Center (ENTC) and Natanz Enrichment Complex as of July 9. pic.twitter.com/AhO8KRQ4WI

— Institute for the Study of War (@TheStudyofWar) July 12, 2025

FLBear5630 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

Yogi said:

---

You can certainly tell the difference.

The mouthwash I bought this morning is the same that I used in 2019. Back then, it ran about $5.50 per bottle. My last bottle cost me $9.50.

Honestly, I don't know how a family with a household income of $75,000/ year makes it anymore. In my childhood, that household income would buy you a great house in a great neighborhood with a nice car. Today? You may be able to get by.

And yet, we still have kids running up $100k/ year loans for college courses that will never pay for the costs of living.

And nobody seems to care that this is neither economically nor politically sustainable.

---

So very true.

Colleges need to pull back on the degrees they offer. If a degree cannot get a person a job, as in there isn't a field that uses that degree, then it should be done away with.

Colleges should also do away with or revamp the "basics" needed. I still to this day have never needed British Lit from high school or college. It has never once helped me or probably anyone else get a job that wasn't a Brit lit teacher/professor.

---

Sorry, disagree with you here. Higher education is supposed to be about more than getting a job. You may be the best accountant, lawyer or doctor in the world but if you are ignorant of Shakespear you are nothing more than a well trained idiot.

If you are going to a Higher Education institution the culture of the west and east is important to learn. 6 credit hours is not a big lift.

Otherwise, go and be a paralegal, bookkeeper or physicians assistant. There are already vocational schools out there. You go to Baylor, you better come out knowing something of Literature, History, and Philosophy. What you do with it is up to you... Maybe being able to go to NASCAR in the afternoon and the theater in the evening is the sign of a well rounded person...

---

Lol. Shakespeare might have been the measure of a well rounded person 40 years ago. Not today.

I went to college and paid money to get a degree to make money to be able to provide for myself and family. I was not being "well rounded." Whatever that is anyways. That is a lazy way to explain useless crap.

It is a big lift when it is 6 hours at Baylor prices, today or even 20 years ago. It is even bigger when it is more than 6 hours because it is more than just the Brit lit example I gave. Theater appreciation where no one went to class except tests and to the like two plays they had you attend and everyone got an A for basically nothing. Unneeded science classes. Math, other English classes, phys ed. Etc.

The goal of degrees is to get better paying jobs. Period.

No one will ever convince me that any of the above are of value to anyone taking them. They only are of value to the prof teaching the class, the actual people in those majors and the university (any not just Baylor) as another class to get money.

I went to college to get a degree to get a better paying job. So did anyone else. Anyone who says they went to college to be a "well rounded" person is flat out lying.

A degree and every you class you take should focus on your future career. Anything that doesn't is a waste of time.

FLBear5630 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

Yogi said:

---

You can certainly tell the difference.

The mouthwash I bought this morning is the same that I used in 2019. Back then, it ran about $5.50 per bottle. My last bottle cost me $9.50.

Honestly, I don't know how a family with a household income of $75,000/ year makes it anymore. In my childhood, that household income would buy you a great house in a great neighborhood with a nice car. Today? You may be able to get by.

And yet, we still have kids running up $100k/ year loans for college courses that will never pay for the costs of living.

And nobody seems to care that this is neither economically nor politically sustainable.

---

So very true.

Colleges need to pull back on the degrees they offer. If a degree cannot get a person a job, as in there isn't a field that uses that degree, then it should be done away with.

Colleges should also do away with or revamp the "basics" needed. I still to this day have never needed British Lit from high school or college. It has never once helped me or probably anyone else get a job that wasn't a Brit lit teacher/professor.

---

Sorry, disagree with you here. Higher education is supposed to be about more than getting a job. You may be the best accountant, lawyer or doctor in the world but if you are ignorant of Shakespear you are nothing more than a well trained idiot.

If you are going to a Higher Education institution the culture of the west and east is important to learn. 6 credit hours is not a big lift.

Otherwise, go and be a paralegal, bookkeeper or physicians assistant. There are already vocational schools out there. You go to Baylor, you better come out knowing something of Literature, History, and Philosophy. What you do with it is up to you... Maybe being able to go to NASCAR in the afternoon and the theater in the evening is the sign of a well rounded person...

---

Amen!

FLBear5630 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

Yogi said:

---

You can certainly tell the difference.

The mouthwash I bought this morning is the same that I used in 2019. Back then, it ran about $5.50 per bottle. My last bottle cost me $9.50.

Honestly, I don't know how a family with a household income of $75,000/ year makes it anymore. In my childhood, that household income would buy you a great house in a great neighborhood with a nice car. Today? You may be able to get by.

And yet, we still have kids running up $100k/ year loans for college courses that will never pay for the costs of living.

And nobody seems to care that this is neither economically nor politically sustainable.

---

So very true.

Colleges need to pull back on the degrees they offer. If a degree cannot get a person a job, as in there isn't a field that uses that degree, then it should be done away with.

Colleges should also do away with or revamp the "basics" needed. I still to this day have never needed British Lit from high school or college. It has never once helped me or probably anyone else get a job that wasn't a Brit lit teacher/professor.

---

Sorry, disagree with you here. Higher education is supposed to be about more than getting a job. You may be the best accountant, lawyer or doctor in the world but if you are ignorant of Shakespear you are nothing more than a well trained idiot.

If you are going to a Higher Education institution the culture of the west and east is important to learn. 6 credit hours is not a big lift.

Otherwise, go and be a paralegal, bookkeeper or physicians assistant. There are already vocational schools out there. You go to Baylor, you better come out knowing something of Literature, History, and Philosophy. What you do with it is up to you... Maybe being able to go to NASCAR in the afternoon and the theater in the evening is the sign of a well rounded person...

---

PA school requires not only a 4-year college degree but also that you've taken all the pre-med courses. And then it's another 2 1/2 years. Hell, it's one semester less tha. A law degree.

Agree with the rest - though I will say he has a point on the types of degrees offered nowadays. If you're spending $250k on higher education, you better damn we'll be able to get a job that can pay back the massive debt.

Sam Lowry said:

---

He was probably referring to this:

Quote:

---

UN rights office 'horrified' by deadly violence at Gaza food distribution sites

The UN human rights office (OHCHR) in the Occupied Palestinian Territory on Wednesday called on the Israeli military to cease the use of lethal force near aid convoys and food distribution sites.

It cited "repeated incidents" of Palestinians being shot or shelled while seeking food, warning that such attacks could constitute war crimes under international law.

"We are horrified at the repeated incidents, continuously reported in recent days across Gaza, and we call for an immediate end to these senseless killings," the office said in a statement.

Since 27 May, when the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF), an initiative backed by Israel and the United States began food distribution in southern Gaza bypassing the established UN-led system -- hundreds have been killed and many more wounded near four distribution points or while waiting to pick up aid.

In one of the deadliest recent incidents, Israeli military reportedly shelled a crowd waiting for UN food trucks in southern Gaza on 17 June, killing at least 51 people and injuring some 200 others, according to Gazan health authorities.

A day earlier, three Palestinians were reportedly killed and several injured in a similar incident in western Beit Lahiya.

"There is no information to suggest that the people killed or injured were involved in hostilities or posed any threat to the Israeli military or to staff of GHF distribution points," OHCHR said.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/06/1164551

---

---

Nearly 800 aid seekers now dead:

Meanwhile in the West Bank:

Mothra said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

Yogi said:

---

You can certainly tell the difference.

The mouthwash I bought this morning is the same that I used in 2019. Back then, it ran about $5.50 per bottle. My last bottle cost me $9.50.

Honestly, I don't know how a family with a household income of $75,000/ year makes it anymore. In my childhood, that household income would buy you a great house in a great neighborhood with a nice car. Today? You may be able to get by.

And yet, we still have kids running up $100k/ year loans for college courses that will never pay for the costs of living.

And nobody seems to care that this is neither economically nor politically sustainable.

---

So very true.

Colleges need to pull back on the degrees they offer. If a degree cannot get a person a job, as in there isn't a field that uses that degree, then it should be done away with.

Colleges should also do away with or revamp the "basics" needed. I still to this day have never needed British Lit from high school or college. It has never once helped me or probably anyone else get a job that wasn't a Brit lit teacher/professor.

---

Sorry, disagree with you here. Higher education is supposed to be about more than getting a job. You may be the best accountant, lawyer or doctor in the world but if you are ignorant of Shakespear you are nothing more than a well trained idiot.

If you are going to a Higher Education institution the culture of the west and east is important to learn. 6 credit hours is not a big lift.

Otherwise, go and be a paralegal, bookkeeper or physicians assistant. There are already vocational schools out there. You go to Baylor, you better come out knowing something of Literature, History, and Philosophy. What you do with it is up to you... Maybe being able to go to NASCAR in the afternoon and the theater in the evening is the sign of a well rounded person...

---

PA school requires not only a 4-year college degree but also that you've taken all the pre-med courses. And then it's another 2 1/2 years. Hell, it's one semester less tha. A law degree.

Agree with the rest - though I will say he has a point on the types of degrees offered nowadays. If you're spending $250k on higher education, you better damn we'll be able to get a job that can pay back the massive debt.

---

It used to be the.people that got those degrees did it for the love of the subject, the job usually teaching came after years of expertise gathering. Is it worth it? I ls philosophy worth it? Is gender studies worth it? For the 1% that truly love it and it is their life's work? Sure. It needs to be the persons choice and the person needs to passionate about what they are studying. It is not a coincidence that these areas were restricted to the wealthy or truly academic gifted. Dumbing down higher ed is not the answer.

I do agree on more emphasis on vocational for those going to school just for a job. You can work in EVERY field without studying Liberal Arts, but 90% can't get to the highest levels without the 4 year degree Does everyone have to be at the highest levels? Nursing has a problem right now, every RN wants to be a Nurse Practitioner or Nurse Anthestitist with no experience, just education. So we have a lot of mediocre NPs that got into nursing for the wrong reasons they don't want to be nurses, just psuedo-doctors. Nobody is left for bedside nursing. They are shipping them in from Japan and the Philippines. What we get is bad health care. But they didn't have to take Brit Lit ..

FLBear5630 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

Yogi said:

---

You can certainly tell the difference.

The mouthwash I bought this morning is the same that I used in 2019. Back then, it ran about $5.50 per bottle. My last bottle cost me $9.50.

Honestly, I don't know how a family with a household income of $75,000/ year makes it anymore. In my childhood, that household income would buy you a great house in a great neighborhood with a nice car. Today? You may be able to get by.

And yet, we still have kids running up $100k/ year loans for college courses that will never pay for the costs of living.

And nobody seems to care that this is neither economically nor politically sustainable.

---

So very true.

Colleges need to pull back on the degrees they offer. If a degree cannot get a person a job, as in there isn't a field that uses that degree, then it should be done away with.

Colleges should also do away with or revamp the "basics" needed. I still to this day have never needed British Lit from high school or college. It has never once helped me or probably anyone else get a job that wasn't a Brit lit teacher/professor.

---

Sorry, disagree with you here. Higher education is supposed to be about more than getting a job. You may be the best accountant, lawyer or doctor in the world but if you are ignorant of Shakespear you are nothing more than a well trained idiot.

If you are going to a Higher Education institution the culture of the west and east is important to learn. 6 credit hours is not a big lift.

Otherwise, go and be a paralegal, bookkeeper or physicians assistant. There are already vocational schools out there. You go to Baylor, you better come out knowing something of Literature, History, and Philosophy. What you do with it is up to you... Maybe being able to go to NASCAR in the afternoon and the theater in the evening is the sign of a well rounded person...

---

PA school requires not only a 4-year college degree but also that you've taken all the pre-med courses. And then it's another 2 1/2 years. Hell, it's one semester less tha. A law degree.

Agree with the rest - though I will say he has a point on the types of degrees offered nowadays. If you're spending $250k on higher education, you better damn we'll be able to get a job that can pay back the massive debt.

---

It used to be the.people that got those degrees did it for the love of the subject, the job usually teaching came after years of expertise gathering. Is it worth it? I ls philosophy worth it? Is gender studies worth it? For the 1% that truly love it and it is their life's work? Sure. It needs to be the persons choice and the person needs to passionate about what they are studying. It is not a coincidence that these areas were restricted to the wealthy or truly academic gifted. Dumbing down higher ed is not the answer.

I do agree on more emphasis on vocational for those going to school just for a job. You can work in EVERY field without studying Liberal Arts, but 90% can't get to the highest levels without the 4 year degree Does everyone have to be at the highest levels? Nursing has a problem right now, every RN wants to be a Nurse Practitioner or Nurse Anthestitist with no experience, just education. So we have a lot of mediocre NPs that got into nursing for the wrong reasons they don't want to be nurses, just psuedo-doctors. Nobody is left for bedside nursing. They are shipping them in from Japan and the Philippines. What we get is bad health care. But they didn't have to take Brit Lit ..

---

I think the mindset of doing college for the love of the subject or to better oneself shifted when college became a racket. Tuition has outpaced inflation by more than ten-fold. When schools like Baylor were affordable it was easier to justify a degree in, say, philosophy.

Now days when you have to pay $60k plus a year for a philosophy degree, it really doesn't make that much sense. It's why I've told my boys to take as much free college as you can (here in Austin - tuition at ACC is free for Austin residents) and let's find a respected state school where you can finish your degree. It's a shame but schools like Baylor have priced us out.

The good news for them is that they've already taken many of the liberal arts type subjects as homeschooled kids. Their world view course is more rigorous than likely anything I took at Baylor.

Mine starts in August. He visited a ton of schools. Got decent offers to tons of schools. How do you justify $40,000/yr to go to Colorado State (his first choice)? That was after scholarships and discounts.

He ended up choosing University of Akron because he got a 100% scholarship for tuition. All im paying is a portion of his housing as he got some of that covered as well.

As things stand right now it will cost me less for his 5 year engineering program at Akron than a single year at Baylor. Baylor's a good school, a great place to spend 4-5 years and I would have loved for him to go there. However, there's no way it's worth the asking price right now, imo.

Mothra said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Mothra said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Yogi said:

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You can certainly tell the difference.

The mouthwash I bought this morning is the same that I used in 2019. Back then, it ran about $5.50 per bottle. My last bottle cost me $9.50.

Honestly, I don't know how a family with a household income of $75,000/ year makes it anymore. In my childhood, that household income would buy you a great house in a great neighborhood with a nice car. Today? You may be able to get by.

And yet, we still have kids running up $100k/ year loans for college courses that will never pay for the costs of living.

And nobody seems to care that this is neither economically nor politically sustainable.

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So very true.

Colleges need to pull back on the degrees they offer. If a degree cannot get a person a job, as in there isn't a field that uses that degree, then it should be done away with.

Colleges should also do away with or revamp the "basics" needed. I still to this day have never needed British Lit from high school or college. It has never once helped me or probably anyone else get a job that wasn't a Brit lit teacher/professor.

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Sorry, disagree with you here. Higher education is supposed to be about more than getting a job. You may be the best accountant, lawyer or doctor in the world but if you are ignorant of Shakespear you are nothing more than a well trained idiot.

If you are going to a Higher Education institution the culture of the west and east is important to learn. 6 credit hours is not a big lift.

Otherwise, go and be a paralegal, bookkeeper or physicians assistant. There are already vocational schools out there. You go to Baylor, you better come out knowing something of Literature, History, and Philosophy. What you do with it is up to you... Maybe being able to go to NASCAR in the afternoon and the theater in the evening is the sign of a well rounded person...

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PA school requires not only a 4-year college degree but also that you've taken all the pre-med courses. And then it's another 2 1/2 years. Hell, it's one semester less tha. A law degree.

Agree with the rest - though I will say he has a point on the types of degrees offered nowadays. If you're spending $250k on higher education, you better damn we'll be able to get a job that can pay back the massive debt.

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It used to be the.people that got those degrees did it for the love of the subject, the job usually teaching came after years of expertise gathering. Is it worth it? I ls philosophy worth it? Is gender studies worth it? For the 1% that truly love it and it is their life's work? Sure. It needs to be the persons choice and the person needs to passionate about what they are studying. It is not a coincidence that these areas were restricted to the wealthy or truly academic gifted. Dumbing down higher ed is not the answer.

I do agree on more emphasis on vocational for those going to school just for a job. You can work in EVERY field without studying Liberal Arts, but 90% can't get to the highest levels without the 4 year degree Does everyone have to be at the highest levels? Nursing has a problem right now, every RN wants to be a Nurse Practitioner or Nurse Anthestitist with no experience, just education. So we have a lot of mediocre NPs that got into nursing for the wrong reasons they don't want to be nurses, just psuedo-doctors. Nobody is left for bedside nursing. They are shipping them in from Japan and the Philippines. What we get is bad health care. But they didn't have to take Brit Lit ..

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I think the mindset of doing college for the love of the subject or to better oneself shifted when college became a racket. Tuition has outpaced inflation by more than ten-fold. When schools like Baylor were affordable it was easier to justify a degree in, say, philosophy.

Now days when you have to pay $60k plus a year for a philosophy degree, it really doesn't make that much sense. It's why I've told my boys to take as much free college as you can (here in Austin - tuition at ACC is free for Austin residents) and let's find a respected state school where you can finish your degree. It's a shame but schools like Baylor have priced us out.

The good news for them is that they've already taken many of the liberal arts type subjects as homeschooled kids. Their world view course is more rigorous than likely anything I took at Baylor.

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Don't get me wrong, I agree. You need to be strategic in how you go to school and develop a career today. MUCH MORE than when I went in the 80's. My Son is a good example, I believe, on how to do it in today's world. He was interested in the least amount of education and best pay. He literally looked up industries with the highest ROI. He went maritime. Did a few years at USMMA (football helped) and then finished up at A&M Maritime with a BA in Maritime Business. He is working at a port and loves it.

Others I know with degrees in Pilosophy do not regret it, but learned they need to double down now on going to for a Professional degree to make the Philosophy and Ethics work. Time and debt load is significant. Can it work? Sure, but it is a grind...

I went to Baylor because when I blew my knee and was done with Officer Training (Ft Sheridan - long term and debilitating ruling ended that dream.), they told me I needed a Masters if I wanted to work in City Mgt. I went and got it. Baylor set me up with a Mentor from Georgetown and he helped tremendously.0 Been working ever since. Baylor was the best educational thing I did. But that was because of Dr. Curry, he was great and helped a Vet after Desert Storm get in. I learned quiickly listening and jumping through the right hoops works. More of these kids need to listen.