boognish_bear said:

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Surprised that BU hasn't already come out with some type of response before this starts spiraling out of control in the media.

Surely they have a response prepared...

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They have an interview with dateline next week. "23 red-shirt freshmen gang ropped 4 champion horses. We cried out to God. The frosh cried out. The horses neighed out. All to God. Changes coming. Not to the BOR. Not out fault. Horses are tarts"

Malbec said:

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I don't deal in self-preservationist rhetoric. You do...as long as it aligns with your narrative. Shillinglaw's attorney had a pleading too. You don't quote it as gospel. And you shouldn't, because it is as worthless as the other side's.

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No matter how much or how little you believe, no document has ever told more detail on why the BOR fired Briles than this. As much time as well all have spent on this I don't see how someone would not take the time to read it one way or the other.

I read it as well as the other sides. They are remarkably differed beyond the advocacy of their respective sides. The primary difference is the wealth of specifics in the regents response. People, dates, places, events .... many of which are binary - they happened or did not happen.

There are dozens and dozens of people who know for certain if those nuggets are real or not including Briles and Shillinglaw who tucked tail and ran. Between message boards and tips to KWTX things get out with or without NDAs. If they are not true, the regents defended a defamation claim with more defamation, and prevailed .... amazing.

You are correct that the vehicle that information was release is not real proof of anything. It is what it is. The Findings of Fact or WSJ article are not significantly different in that regard. At the end of the day we are left with a question that you and I will likely never get an unquestionable answer to "Can the regents back up what they said". Does not mean anything, but if you believe they can not back it up, you are in an exceptionally small minority.

Forest Bueller said:

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NoBSU said:

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DustyM said:

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Dman said:

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Guys. Give Keyser a break. It's hard work shilling for the BoR. It's hard and exhausting to be as blatantly hypocritical as he is..day after day. It takes a lot to leave all self respect and intellectual honesty at the door every day. He has had to become the exact thing that he claims to hate..a direct reverse reflection of a Cab'er.

No mattter the spin. Everyone failed our university In some way. Briles, Ian, Star, and yes..even the BOR. Across the spectrum. However, Not everyone was held accountable. Only one remains in the position they were before this epic university wide failure. This is the undeniable truth Keyser must try to counter...every day. Please don't underestimate the toll this degree of self delusion takes on a mans psyche. Give him a break.

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This is a good post. I can only think of two reasons for his and others continual responses.

First: That the six or seven different names that keep showing up and talking like this, are actually one or two people.

Second: That those names, are in fact, paid hacks by the BOR or Ramsower. No other reason would explain their constant attack on everyone and everything that pertains to the former football and athletic staff.

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What about your continual posts? Truth, Justice, and/or American Way?

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You are kidding here right? Dusty has 45 posts on these boards. Milli almost 5,300 with at least 5000 of those being pure trolls with no purpose but to troll someone.

At least try when you post.

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You are a decent guy and fairly intelligent. I posted to dusty who posted to Dman who posted to keyser. Seems logical that I was referencing them and not milli.

Now dusty posted about those who post a lot. I post a lot. Maybe I take his/her comment personally. I don't take money as he/she suggests, so I take offense to his/her generalization. So, I inquired about dusty ' s motivation since dusty has everybody else figured out.

Here is a little hint. If you are obsessed with milli then reply to milli.

Keyser Soze said:

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Malbec said:

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I don't deal in self-preservationist rhetoric. You do...as long as it aligns with your narrative. Shillinglaw's attorney had a pleading too. You don't quote it as gospel. And you shouldn't, because it is as worthless as the other side's.

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No matter how much or how little you believe, no document has ever told more detail on why the BOR fired Briles than this. As much time as well all have spent on this I don't see how someone would not take the time to read it one way or the other.

I read it as well as the other sides. They are remarkably differed beyond the advocacy of their respective sides. The primary difference is the wealth of specifics in the regents response. People, dates, places, events .... many of which are binary - they happened or did not happen.

There are dozens and dozens of people who know for certain if those nuggets are real or not including Briles and Shillinglaw who tucked tail and ran. Between message boards and tips to KWTX things get out with or without NDAs. If they are not true, the regents defended a defamation claim with more defamation, and prevailed .... amazing.

You are correct that the vehicle that information was release is not real proof of anything. It is what it is. The Findings of Fact or WSJ article are not significantly different in that regard. At the end of the day we are left with a question that you and I will likely never get an unquestionable answer to "Can the regents back up what they said". Does not mean anything, but if you believe they can not back it up, you are in an exceptionally small minority.

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I think the regents don't "open the books" mostly to protect their own failures. Several regents sure found a way to release partial information to defend themselves. Why hasn't that become a media focus?

I think there is a lot more damning information to regents, Starr, Briles, Ian, assistant coaches, Baylor PD, Ramsower, other administrators. Baylor leaders are fighting discovery with all their might.

The question that I am left with is not why was Briles fired, but why were many others not fired and regents removed from the board.

NoBSU said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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Malbec said:

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I don't deal in self-preservationist rhetoric. You do...as long as it aligns with your narrative. Shillinglaw's attorney had a pleading too. You don't quote it as gospel. And you shouldn't, because it is as worthless as the other side's.

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No matter how much or how little you believe, no document has ever told more detail on why the BOR fired Briles than this. As much time as well all have spent on this I don't see how someone would not take the time to read it one way or the other.

I read it as well as the other sides. They are remarkably differed beyond the advocacy of their respective sides. The primary difference is the wealth of specifics in the regents response. People, dates, places, events .... many of which are binary - they happened or did not happen.

There are dozens and dozens of people who know for certain if those nuggets are real or not including Briles and Shillinglaw who tucked tail and ran. Between message boards and tips to KWTX things get out with or without NDAs. If they are not true, the regents defended a defamation claim with more defamation, and prevailed .... amazing.

You are correct that the vehicle that information was release is not real proof of anything. It is what it is. The Findings of Fact or WSJ article are not significantly different in that regard. At the end of the day we are left with a question that you and I will likely never get an unquestionable answer to "Can the regents back up what they said". Does not mean anything, but if you believe they can not back it up, you are in an exceptionally small minority.

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I think the regents don't "open the books" mostly to protect their own failures. Several regents sure found a way to release partial information to defend themselves. Why hasn't that become a media focus?

I think there is a lot more damning information to regents, Starr, Briles, Ian, assistant coaches, Baylor PD, Ramsower, other administrators. Baylor leaders are fighting discovery with all their might.

The question that I am left with is not why was Briles fired, but why were many others not fired and regents removed from the board.

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Agree 10,000%. Can't have a real culture change without further removals that should've happened long ago.

"To Art's credit, he admitted to his own inproprieties, and he asked what he needed to do. He said TELL ME WHAT YOU NEED ME TO DO. I then told Art that he needed to support my boy Aaron Murff and his habits with his Cheetos. Ian agreed to help my boy Aaron Murff with his Cheetos, which is why Ian was only sanctioned and not fired."

"David Garland and I then met with the press and we hit a home run. Now you know the rest of the story."

Tommy_Lou_Ramsower said:

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"To Art's credit, he admitted to his own inproprieties, and he asked what he needed to do. He said TELL ME WHAT YOU NEED ME TO DO. I then told Art that he needed to support my boy Aaron Murff and his habits with his Cheetos. Ian agreed to help my boy Aaron Murff with his Cheetos, which is why Ian was only sanctioned and not fired."

"David Garland and I then met with the press and we hit a home run. Now you know the rest of the story."

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I just have one question for Murff after looking at how he fits into that jacket on the second photo: Does Ian McCaw know you raided his wardrobe?

NoBSU said:

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Tommy_Lou_Ramsower said:

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"To Art's credit, he admitted to his own inproprieties, and he asked what he needed to do. He said TELL ME WHAT YOU NEED ME TO DO. I then told Art that he needed to support my boy Aaron Murff and his habits with his Cheetos. Ian agreed to help my boy Aaron Murff with his Cheetos, which is why Ian was only sanctioned and not fired."

"David Garland and I then met with the press and we hit a home run. Now you know the rest of the story."

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I just have one question for Murff after looking at how he fits into that jacket on the second photo: Does Ian McCall know you raided his wardrobe?

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Who is Ian McCall?

Want to weed out the shills and trolls on both sides? It's easy. If they can't agree to the following, factual statements...they're a shill.

ALL.. Art, Ian, Star, and our BOR failed to meet their responsibilities to lead, guide, and provide institutional over-site of their respective programs and academic institutions. All were held accountable and are no longer present...outside of one.

This isn't a controversial statement. It's not an inflammatory statement. It's a factual, no agenda, statement. No amount of spin..desperate name calling/ "rape enabler etc" will change that on either side.

I could give a rats ass about the people who are gone. They can't hurt us anymore. I do care about those that remain.

This is where the Village Idiot, Keyser, as well as "Cab never did anything wrong" posters expose themselves.

IF they are all gone why is Baylor still experiencing pain? On a weekly basis

Said it before and I'll say it again

The victims are gone
The predators remain

Robemcdo said:

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IF they are all gone why is Baylor still experiencing pain? On a weekly basis

Said it before and I'll say it again

The victims are gone
The predators remain

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The predators are the actual thugs committing the crimes. They exist on every campus. They always will.

The expectations of our leaders we can control and how they handle these complicated issues. Anyone and everyone involved in the biggest, most costly scandal in the schools history simply doesn't get the chance to stick around for the cleanup. It's simply false if you don't think Art could have done more. In hindsight, he probably would have. Did he get what he deserves?..is debatable. Just like Keyser when he wants to point the finger at EVERYONE but the BoR. It's intellectually dishonest. Fortunately for them..they're the only ones who control if they ever get what they deserve.

Dman said:

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Robemcdo said:

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IF they are all gone why is Baylor still experiencing pain? On a weekly basis

Said it before and I'll say it again

The victims are gone
The predators remain

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The predators are the actual thugs committing the crimes. They exist on every campus. They always will.

The expectations of our leaders we can control and how they handle these complicated issues. Anyone and everyone involved in the biggest, most costly scandal in the schools history simply doesn't get the chance to stick around for the cleanup. It's simply false if you don't think Art could have done more. In hindsight, he probably would have. Did he get what he deserves?..is debatable. Just like Keyser when he wants to point the finger at EVERYONE but the BoR. It's intellectually dishonest. Fortunately for them..they're the only ones who control if they ever get what they deserve.

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The big money donors and the rest of us alumni that have given to Baylor for many years are going to have a say. At this point, I don't think it matters because most of the BOR care about themselves much more than they care about Baylor. The fracturing of the Baylor Nation is heartbreaking, but life will go on.

PacificBear said:

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If Rhule knew about this and they're still on the team then he should be fired. What if this was your daughter.

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There is a thing called due process. It is an interesting thing that our justice system has put in place to protect all of us from false claims and it gives us rights to an unbiased investigation and hearing.

Amarillobear said:

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PacificBear said:

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If Rhule knew about this and they're still on the team then he should be fired. What if this was your daughter.

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There is a thing called due process. It is an interesting thing that our justice system has put in place to protect all of us from false claims and it gives us rights to an unbiased investigation and hearing.

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So to be clear, Briles was also wrong to boot his kids after allegations were made and long before trials etc?

I'm pretty sure there does not need to be alot of due process from a football coach for breaking team rules. You get suspended or benched or whatever if you break rules. This also happens if you break school rules. High school kids get sent to alt school all the time just based on mere allegation well before a case proceeds through court. Due process afforded the accused is not the same thing as when a kid breaks the rules of his team etc.

If the players are gone super. However I suspect that would be very well known to all if that were the case at this point and Baylor would have made sure that was known without going into details. If they are gone, Baylor is still crappy at PR it appears.

As anticipated. The shills instantly begin their knee jerk spin and deflection. (In full disclosure I have No idea what the Village Idiot/Milli says, he's been on ignore for months. His posts are literally irrelevant and no one takes him seriously.). Yet not one has addressed or faulted the simple statement:

"ALL.. Art, Ian, Star, and our BOR failed to meet their responsibilities to lead, guide, and provide institutional over-site of their respective programs and academic institutions. All were held accountable and are no longer present...outside of one. "

MilliVanilli said:

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Dman said:

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Want to weed out the shills and trolls on both sides? It's easy. If they can't agree to the following, factual statements...they're a shill.

ALL.. Art, Ian, Star, and our BOR failed to meet their responsibilities to lead, guide, and provide institutional over-site of their respective programs and academic institutions. All were held accountable and are no longer present...outside of one.

This isn't a controversial statement. It's not an inflammatory statement. It's a factual, no agenda, statement. No amount of spin..desperate name calling/ "rape enabler etc" will change that on either side.

I could give a rats ass about the people who are gone. They can't hurt us anymore. I do care about those that remain.

This is where the Village Idiot, Keyser, as well as "Cab never did anything wrong" posters expose themselves.

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It's fascinating watching an ill-tempered illiterate call educated people "village idiots".

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milli, why do you always open yourself up for it......

oldbear69 said:

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MilliVanilli said:

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Dman said:

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Want to weed out the shills and trolls on both sides? It's easy. If they can't agree to the following, factual statements...they're a shill.

ALL.. Art, Ian, Star, and our BOR failed to meet their responsibilities to lead, guide, and provide institutional over-site of their respective programs and academic institutions. All were held accountable and are no longer present...outside of one.

This isn't a controversial statement. It's not an inflammatory statement. It's a factual, no agenda, statement. No amount of spin..desperate name calling/ "rape enabler etc" will change that on either side.

I could give a rats ass about the people who are gone. They can't hurt us anymore. I do care about those that remain.

This is where the Village Idiot, Keyser, as well as "Cab never did anything wrong" posters expose themselves.

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It's fascinating watching an ill-tempered illiterate call educated people "village idiots".

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milli, why do you always open yourself up for it......

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Hilarious. I see nothings changed for Mili... Notice how he didn't respond to the basis of the post at all. Not a single attempt to mitigate one simple statement. It was a short,, factual statement meant to identify the shills. He falls for it, waves his hands, jumps up and down and screams "look at me..I'm one!! Im one!!" Can't make this stuff up. Like I said..no one takes him seriously. Even seeing his responses when someone quotes him is too often.