Sam Lowry said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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whiterock said:

---

https://amgreatness.com/2022/08/29/one-giant-problem-with-the-fbis-mar-a-lago-raid/

Link states status quo on the question of Presidential classification authority, giving an example I have cited here previously:

"...But in 2017, there were still a few adults at the Washington Post who felt the need to educate the public. Another headline read, "No, Trump did not break the law in talking classified details with the Russians," adding, "The president is essentially the ultimate arbiter of what is classified and what is not. While the heads of particular agencies also have original classification authoritythe power to deem material classified or not classifiedtheir authority is limited to their departments and bound by their departments' particular rules."

"When it comes to classification issues and those kinds of things, he's not above the law," defense attorney Edward B. MacMahon, Jr., told the Post. "He basically is the law."

In other words, Trump did not break the law by revealing classified information to the Russians because the president is the ultimate authority over what is classified. He can reveal or share anything with anyone regardless of its security classification. He doesn't need to follow any procedures or make the decision in writing. If the person with whom he shares the information is not "cleared" to access that classified information, then the classification is automatically modified to permit such access. All that's needed is something that clearly demonstrates the president's intent to share or otherwise dispose of the classified information. Thus, the moment the president told the Russians about the terrorist plot, those Russians were legally allowed to possess the information...."

...and then goes on to make the appropriate connection:

"....When those trucks arrived at Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump was still president. The decision to repose classified documents in Mar-a-Lago was a presidential decision. Joe Biden might not have agreed with Trump's decision keep these records after leaving office. But this situation is no different than Trump's decision to share intelligence with the Russians. He made an executive decision to repose classified documents in his personal residence...."

Garland chose to make a political issue out of this by not waiting until after the mid-terms. After the mid-terms are done, he might chose to de-escalate by announcing he will not seek indictment. That would be a step toward addressing growing public concern over politicization in the DOJ/FBI. Or he could proceed with indictment and set of a titanic constitutional crisis which would require SCOTUS to end. That is a high risk gamble, as it might or might not be settled by election day 2022. (HINT: this SCOTUS is not likely to allow a former POTUS to be prosecuted over something that has traditionally been an implicit power of the office.) So escalation to push this issue into the 2024 elections risks a humiliating defeat in an election year.

For those reasons, in normal politics, Garland could be expected to withdraw after the mid-terms.

But we are not in "normal politics."
We are in "regime politics."
Democrats genuinely appear to believe their own propaganda, that they are defending the realm from fascism.
Prepare for a bumpy ride.

---

Correct. The president is the ultimate arbiter of what is classified or not. That's why it has been obvious from day one it was a political stunt to get overdue library books to the National Archives, which is unprecedented in another act of authoritarian destruction of polity and protocol. Every president keeps records - let's name the last one to get raided by the FBI to return them.

---

The same Government, inventoried, packed the boxes and paid to have them shipped to the location that the FBI had to raid to protect National Security.

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...at a location guarded by the United States Secret Service

---

Stop deluding these poor people. You know good and well the Secret Service isn't there to monitor what Trump does with documents.

---

But they were safe. No doubt. Or, are you now saying Trump was going to do something nefarious with the documents while the Secret Service were making lunch? SO, we know what is in the boxes because NARA was there when they were packed. We know where they are because the US Govt paid to have them moved to Mar Lago. We know they were safe because of the Secret Service protection. Yet, we needed 30 armed FBI agents to get in? I guess the army Trump put together and hid from the Secret Service? You do not find any of this out of the ordinary? This is all standard SOP???

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Except almost none of that is true. The boxes were packed haphazardly by various people including White House movers and other staff. NARA never received them. No one was sure what was in them.

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so how many crimes were committed in that statement? Seems like alot according to the espionage act

RMF5630 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

whiterock said:

---

https://amgreatness.com/2022/08/29/one-giant-problem-with-the-fbis-mar-a-lago-raid/

Link states status quo on the question of Presidential classification authority, giving an example I have cited here previously:

"...But in 2017, there were still a few adults at the Washington Post who felt the need to educate the public. Another headline read, "No, Trump did not break the law in talking classified details with the Russians," adding, "The president is essentially the ultimate arbiter of what is classified and what is not. While the heads of particular agencies also have original classification authoritythe power to deem material classified or not classifiedtheir authority is limited to their departments and bound by their departments' particular rules."

"When it comes to classification issues and those kinds of things, he's not above the law," defense attorney Edward B. MacMahon, Jr., told the Post. "He basically is the law."

In other words, Trump did not break the law by revealing classified information to the Russians because the president is the ultimate authority over what is classified. He can reveal or share anything with anyone regardless of its security classification. He doesn't need to follow any procedures or make the decision in writing. If the person with whom he shares the information is not "cleared" to access that classified information, then the classification is automatically modified to permit such access. All that's needed is something that clearly demonstrates the president's intent to share or otherwise dispose of the classified information. Thus, the moment the president told the Russians about the terrorist plot, those Russians were legally allowed to possess the information...."

...and then goes on to make the appropriate connection:

"....When those trucks arrived at Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump was still president. The decision to repose classified documents in Mar-a-Lago was a presidential decision. Joe Biden might not have agreed with Trump's decision keep these records after leaving office. But this situation is no different than Trump's decision to share intelligence with the Russians. He made an executive decision to repose classified documents in his personal residence...."

Garland chose to make a political issue out of this by not waiting until after the mid-terms. After the mid-terms are done, he might chose to de-escalate by announcing he will not seek indictment. That would be a step toward addressing growing public concern over politicization in the DOJ/FBI. Or he could proceed with indictment and set of a titanic constitutional crisis which would require SCOTUS to end. That is a high risk gamble, as it might or might not be settled by election day 2022. (HINT: this SCOTUS is not likely to allow a former POTUS to be prosecuted over something that has traditionally been an implicit power of the office.) So escalation to push this issue into the 2024 elections risks a humiliating defeat in an election year.

For those reasons, in normal politics, Garland could be expected to withdraw after the mid-terms.

But we are not in "normal politics."
We are in "regime politics."
Democrats genuinely appear to believe their own propaganda, that they are defending the realm from fascism.
Prepare for a bumpy ride.

---

Correct. The president is the ultimate arbiter of what is classified or not. That's why it has been obvious from day one it was a political stunt to get overdue library books to the National Archives, which is unprecedented in another act of authoritarian destruction of polity and protocol. Every president keeps records - let's name the last one to get raided by the FBI to return them.

---

The same Government, inventoried, packed the boxes and paid to have them shipped to the location that the FBI had to raid to protect National Security.

---

...at a location guarded by the United States Secret Service

---

Stop deluding these poor people. You know good and well the Secret Service isn't there to monitor what Trump does with documents.

---

But they were safe. No doubt. Or, are you now saying Trump was going to do something nefarious with the documents while the Secret Service were making lunch? SO, we know what is in the boxes because NARA was there when they were packed. We know where they are because the US Govt paid to have them moved to Mar Lago. We know they were safe because of the Secret Service protection. Yet, we needed 30 armed FBI agents to get in? I guess the army Trump put together and hid from the Secret Service? You do not find any of this out of the ordinary? This is all standard SOP???

---

Except almost none of that is true. The boxes were packed haphazardly by various people including White House movers and other staff. NARA never received them. No one was sure what was in them. It's not the Secret Service's job to protect them.

---

Yeah Sam, Melania just threw papers into boxes with a bottle of wine. Nobody in the US Government was there when the President packed up the Oval Office. Maybe I am giving them too much credit, it wasn't boxes the former President moved using garbage bags. You really believe this? That the Oval Office was packed hap-hazzardly? That Trump had nuclear secrets laying around with half eaten pizza??

Secret Service will just step aside because it is not their job to protect them, so any intruder can just walk in and grab the nuclear secrets.

You guys expect people to believe that?

---

Security protocols exist for a reason. Do you always take them so lightly, or is it only in election years?

Sam Lowry said:

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An article on the well documented issues with Mar-a-Lago. It was already known as a "security nightmare" in the early months of Trump's presidency:

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-mar-lago-security-risk-espionage-235950

---

So in 5.5 years, they didn't figure out how to protect ans secure the home of the President? I guess in your mind, the President shouldn't be able to go to his home after he is done because the Secret Service can't figure out how to secure it? Have you ever heard of any other leader, US or Foreign, that could not go home because their security team was put out???

Please rethink about what you are saying. I like you Sam and I enjoy our back and forth, but when it comes to Trump you throw out some stuff that is mind boggling.

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

An article on the well documented issues with Mar-a-Lago. It was already known as a "security nightmare" in the early months of Trump's presidency:

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-mar-lago-security-risk-espionage-235950

---

So in 5.5 years, they didn't figure out how to protect ans secure the home of the President? I guess in your mind, the President shouldn't be able to go to his home after he is done because the Secret Service can't figure out how to secure it? Have you ever heard of any other leader, US or Foreign, that could not go home because their security team was put out???

Please rethink about what you are saying. I like you Sam and I enjoy our back and forth, but when it comes to Trump you throw out some stuff that is mind boggling.

---

if you read it with a mask and face shield on, it might help..

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

An article on the well documented issues with Mar-a-Lago. It was already known as a "security nightmare" in the early months of Trump's presidency:

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-mar-lago-security-risk-espionage-235950

---

So in 5.5 years, they didn't figure out how to protect ans secure the home of the President? I guess in your mind, the President shouldn't be able to go to his home after he is done because the Secret Service can't figure out how to secure it? Have you ever heard of any other leader, US or Foreign, that could not go home because their security team was put out???

Please rethink about what you are saying. I like you Sam and I enjoy our back and forth, but when it comes to Trump you throw out some stuff that is mind boggling.

---

No, I can't think of any other example because no other president took highly sensitive material home when he left office (at least not under the current rules).

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

An article on the well documented issues with Mar-a-Lago. It was already known as a "security nightmare" in the early months of Trump's presidency:

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-mar-lago-security-risk-espionage-235950

---

So in 5.5 years, they didn't figure out how to protect ans secure the home of the President? I guess in your mind, the President shouldn't be able to go to his home after he is done because the Secret Service can't figure out how to secure it? Have you ever heard of any other leader, US or Foreign, that could not go home because their security team was put out???

Please rethink about what you are saying. I like you Sam and I enjoy our back and forth, but when it comes to Trump you throw out some stuff that is mind boggling.

---

No, I can't think of any other example because no other president took highly sensitive material home when he left office (at least not under the current rules).

---

Every president has taken home files. Many they arguably should not have. Like everything around Trump, I will not defend his taking of document inappropriately, if he did, or the allegedly sloppy way they were maintained.

What I am concerned about, which is a much greater threat to democracy and our mutual governance is the Democrats continual misuse of power and disregard for protocol to maintain power. That is much more concerning than a National archivist having his TDS panties in a wad over not getting his documents when he wants them.

As noted, the Obama-Biden White House (they're more or less the same) has a track record of weaponizing the federal government against political opponents, and that is far more dangerous than some overdue library books. In order to have faith in government, all people need to trust the institutions. The FBI and DOJ have eroded that trust through its obvious double standards.
- The FBI had Hunter Biden's laptop, knew it was legitimate, and yet still told Facebook and other social media organizations that it likely was "Russian disinformation"
- The FBI (and CIA) was colluded with a Russian operative to foist the Russian Hoax on not only Trump's presidency but also the American people
- The FBI has been targeting American citizens at best needlessly and at worse intentionally entrapping them

Being used as a political tool by one political party is dangerous and undermines trust in the federal government. It obviously a political stunt because of the silly, juvenile leaks to the left-wing noise machine that it so vociferously parrots: TRUMP HAD NUCLEAR CODES! HE SOLD THEM TO THE CHINESE! I do not recall a case where we have seen a similar level of leaking disinformation to the left-wing noise machine as we did with Trump whether the Russian Hoax of the Overdue Library Books hoax.

The Trump answer is very simple. One of these things are true:
- The documents Trump allegedly illegally took to his home were a threat to national security - in which case the raid should have been conducted in February 2020
- The document Trump allegedly illegally took to his home were technically wrongly taken but not a threat to national security - in which case he should have been shown the same courtesy given to other presidents

The litmus test as always with double standard Democrats is would you support raiding Clinton, Obama, or Biden's homes to get overdue library books? Of course the left-wing noise machine would be screaming about "threats to democracy," "UltraMAGA," and "fascism."

The FBI did not raid Obama's home to get the myriad documents he refused to return nor Clinton's home to get his tapes. And there were no leaks about how Obama was selling nuclear codes to the Russians, the Iranians, or the Chinese.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

whiterock said:

---

https://amgreatness.com/2022/08/29/one-giant-problem-with-the-fbis-mar-a-lago-raid/

Link states status quo on the question of Presidential classification authority, giving an example I have cited here previously:

"...But in 2017, there were still a few adults at the Washington Post who felt the need to educate the public. Another headline read, "No, Trump did not break the law in talking classified details with the Russians," adding, "The president is essentially the ultimate arbiter of what is classified and what is not. While the heads of particular agencies also have original classification authoritythe power to deem material classified or not classifiedtheir authority is limited to their departments and bound by their departments' particular rules."

"When it comes to classification issues and those kinds of things, he's not above the law," defense attorney Edward B. MacMahon, Jr., told the Post. "He basically is the law."

In other words, Trump did not break the law by revealing classified information to the Russians because the president is the ultimate authority over what is classified. He can reveal or share anything with anyone regardless of its security classification. He doesn't need to follow any procedures or make the decision in writing. If the person with whom he shares the information is not "cleared" to access that classified information, then the classification is automatically modified to permit such access. All that's needed is something that clearly demonstrates the president's intent to share or otherwise dispose of the classified information. Thus, the moment the president told the Russians about the terrorist plot, those Russians were legally allowed to possess the information...."

...and then goes on to make the appropriate connection:

"....When those trucks arrived at Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump was still president. The decision to repose classified documents in Mar-a-Lago was a presidential decision. Joe Biden might not have agreed with Trump's decision keep these records after leaving office. But this situation is no different than Trump's decision to share intelligence with the Russians. He made an executive decision to repose classified documents in his personal residence...."

Garland chose to make a political issue out of this by not waiting until after the mid-terms. After the mid-terms are done, he might chose to de-escalate by announcing he will not seek indictment. That would be a step toward addressing growing public concern over politicization in the DOJ/FBI. Or he could proceed with indictment and set of a titanic constitutional crisis which would require SCOTUS to end. That is a high risk gamble, as it might or might not be settled by election day 2022. (HINT: this SCOTUS is not likely to allow a former POTUS to be prosecuted over something that has traditionally been an implicit power of the office.) So escalation to push this issue into the 2024 elections risks a humiliating defeat in an election year.

For those reasons, in normal politics, Garland could be expected to withdraw after the mid-terms.

But we are not in "normal politics."
We are in "regime politics."
Democrats genuinely appear to believe their own propaganda, that they are defending the realm from fascism.
Prepare for a bumpy ride.

---

Correct. The president is the ultimate arbiter of what is classified or not. That's why it has been obvious from day one it was a political stunt to get overdue library books to the National Archives, which is unprecedented in another act of authoritarian destruction of polity and protocol. Every president keeps records - let's name the last one to get raided by the FBI to return them.

---

The same Government, inventoried, packed the boxes and paid to have them shipped to the location that the FBI had to raid to protect National Security.

---

...at a location guarded by the United States Secret Service

---

Stop deluding these poor people. You know good and well the Secret Service isn't there to monitor what Trump does with documents.

---

So you think if the Russian bogeymen broke in to steal the nuclear codes they would watch?

---

Exactly

As if the Secret Service would just stand there .

This whole narrative is even more ridiculous than the RUSSIA fantasy .

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

An article on the well documented issues with Mar-a-Lago. It was already known as a "security nightmare" in the early months of Trump's presidency:

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-mar-lago-security-risk-espionage-235950

---

So in 5.5 years, they didn't figure out how to protect ans secure the home of the President? I guess in your mind, the President shouldn't be able to go to his home after he is done because the Secret Service can't figure out how to secure it? Have you ever heard of any other leader, US or Foreign, that could not go home because their security team was put out???

Please rethink about what you are saying. I like you Sam and I enjoy our back and forth, but when it comes to Trump you throw out some stuff that is mind boggling.

---

No, I can't think of any other example because no other president took highly sensitive material home when he left office (at least not under the current rules).

---

Every president has taken home files. Many they arguably should not have. Like everything around Trump, I will not defend his taking of document inappropriately, if he did, or the allegedly sloppy way they were maintained.

What I am concerned about, which is a much greater threat to democracy and our mutual governance is the Democrats continual misuse of power and disregard for protocol to maintain power. That is much more concerning than a National archivist having his TDS panties in a wad over not getting his documents when he wants them.

As noted, the Obama-Biden White House (they're more or less the same) has a track record of weaponizing the federal government against political opponents, and that is far more dangerous than some overdue library books. In order to have faith in government, all people need to trust the institutions. The FBI and DOJ have eroded that trust through its obvious double standards.
- The FBI had Hunter Biden's laptop, knew it was legitimate, and yet still told Facebook and other social media organizations that it likely was "Russian disinformation"
- The FBI (and CIA) was colluded with a Russian operative to foist the Russian Hoax on not only Trump's presidency but also the American people
- The FBI has been targeting American citizens at best needlessly and at worse intentionally entrapping them

Being used as a political tool by one political party is dangerous and undermines trust in the federal government. It obviously a political stunt because of the silly, juvenile leaks to the left-wing noise machine that it so vociferously parrots: TRUMP HAD NUCLEAR CODES! HE SOLD THEM TO THE CHINESE! I do not recall a case where we have seen a similar level of leaking disinformation to the left-wing noise machine as we did with Trump whether the Russian Hoax of the Overdue Library Books hoax.

The Trump answer is very simple. One of these things are true:
- The documents Trump allegedly illegally took to his home were a threat to national security - in which case the raid should have been conducted in February 2020
- The document Trump allegedly illegally took to his home were technically wrongly taken but not a threat to national security - in which case he should have been shown the same courtesy given to other presidents

The litmus test as always with double standard Democrats is would you support raiding Clinton, Obama, or Biden's homes to get overdue library books? Of course the left-wing noise machine would be screaming about "threats to democracy," "UltraMAGA," and "fascism."

The FBI did not raid Obama's home to get the myriad documents he refused to return nor Clinton's home to get his tapes. And there were no leaks about how Obama was selling nuclear codes to the Russians, the Iranians, or the Chinese.

---

Being wrongly accused by the FBI doesn't give you life-long immunity. That's true of any person. It's especially true when you're the person who fired the FBI director and hand-picked his successor.

The claim that Obama refused to return myriad documents is false. It was known to be false when Sen. Cruz tweeted it. NARA released a statement a few days later in case there was any doubt. NARA didn't consider the Clinton tapes to be presidential records and didn't ask for the FBI to get involved. Clinton wasn't even a party to the case.

The "raid in February or not at all" dilemma is also false. You ignore the possibility that the DOJ did exactly what you say you want them to do: secure national secrets while respecting due process and using particular caution in politically charged cases. I posted a quote on another thread asking what choice they had under the known circumstances. It didn't get many replies, so I'll re-post it here:

Quote:

---

For those of us who remain skeptical about whether the drastic measure of a search warrant was really necessary (especially given the FBI and DOJ's evident lack of urgency in the months after Trump's surrender of the 15 boxes in January 2022), these revelations require grappling with a hard question: Given that the former president was not responsibly securing the government's most closely held intelligence, that he was trying to prevent the FBI from examining what he'd returned, that his lawyers were either misinformed about or lying about the classified information still retained at Mar-a-Lago, and that even the issuance of a grand-jury subpoena (with potential criminal penalties for noncompliance) had not succeeded in getting Trump to hand over the remaining classified information, what option short of a search warrant would have sufficed?

https://sicem365.com/forums/7/topics/111639

---

He had twice the amount of files that he turned over and lied about having them.

Trump is done. The sooner Rs realize it, the sooner they will remain a relevant party.

ScruffyD said:

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He had twice the amount of files that he turned over and lied about having them.

Trump is done. The sooner Rs realize it, the sooner they will remain a relevant party.

---

What this looks like is the Jan 6th Commissoon failed, the NY Court case failed, Georgia nothing. But we always have the mismanagement of files when he left because we know that there is no defense against the Espionage Act, go with that.

Trump is not running in 24. Evrn if he ran he would not of beat DeSantis, period.

Let's be clear. This is not about 24, it is about 22 midterms and deflecting away from horrific job Biden is doing. This is about keeping majority and pushing through progressive agenda before they lose in 24. Roberts gave the Dems a gift and this is to finally discredit Trump for 22. They knew what he had from.befire he left office, as if Trump knows what is in each box!

I agree with some of your first points. If he is running now, it is because of this.

This has been brewing long before someone could think they would need it for the mid terms. And Biden had finally notched some wins as this broke, no one is talking about that now.

You all used to care about storing classified info securely. Trump even said he'd make it a priority in 2016.

There's some interesting info in last nights filing.

If we knew what the files were about, it would help. If Trump declassified them and then Biden is attempting to "Reclassify the Documents", that would be a VIOLATION of Executive Order 13526 - section 1.7

It would have helped his cause to claim they'd been declassified from the outset, and made that argument then.

But they didn't. They've made it up as they go.

They said they turned everything over. Witnesses and security footage say otherwise. Then they obstructed.

Reality Winner got 5yrs in prison for a small fraction of what's in this photo.

NEWS: DOJ's new filing includes. photo of the classified documents found at Mar-a-Lago on Aug. 8. https://t.co/nm567c96bi pic.twitter.com/0U2hoSogxQ

— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) August 31, 2022

4th and Inches said:

---

If we knew what the files were about, it would help. If Trump declassified them and then Biden is attempting to "Reclassify the Documents", that would be a VIOLATION of Executive Order 13526 - section 1.7

---

No reason to think that's true.

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

If we knew what the files were about, it would help. If Trump declassified them and then Biden is attempting to "Reclassify the Documents", that would be a VIOLATION of Executive Order 13526 - section 1.7

---

No reason to think that's true.

---

obviously there is a reason or it wouldnt have been suggested. If you dont dig, you cant rule out all possibilities. A good prosecutor/investigator/defense atty covers all angles.

If you dont have an answer, you dont have a rebuttal.

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

whiterock said:

---

https://amgreatness.com/2022/08/29/one-giant-problem-with-the-fbis-mar-a-lago-raid/

Link states status quo on the question of Presidential classification authority, giving an example I have cited here previously:

"...But in 2017, there were still a few adults at the Washington Post who felt the need to educate the public. Another headline read, "No, Trump did not break the law in talking classified details with the Russians," adding, "The president is essentially the ultimate arbiter of what is classified and what is not. While the heads of particular agencies also have original classification authoritythe power to deem material classified or not classifiedtheir authority is limited to their departments and bound by their departments' particular rules."

"When it comes to classification issues and those kinds of things, he's not above the law," defense attorney Edward B. MacMahon, Jr., told the Post. "He basically is the law."

In other words, Trump did not break the law by revealing classified information to the Russians because the president is the ultimate authority over what is classified. He can reveal or share anything with anyone regardless of its security classification. He doesn't need to follow any procedures or make the decision in writing. If the person with whom he shares the information is not "cleared" to access that classified information, then the classification is automatically modified to permit such access. All that's needed is something that clearly demonstrates the president's intent to share or otherwise dispose of the classified information. Thus, the moment the president told the Russians about the terrorist plot, those Russians were legally allowed to possess the information...."

...and then goes on to make the appropriate connection:

"....When those trucks arrived at Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump was still president. The decision to repose classified documents in Mar-a-Lago was a presidential decision. Joe Biden might not have agreed with Trump's decision keep these records after leaving office. But this situation is no different than Trump's decision to share intelligence with the Russians. He made an executive decision to repose classified documents in his personal residence...."

Garland chose to make a political issue out of this by not waiting until after the mid-terms. After the mid-terms are done, he might chose to de-escalate by announcing he will not seek indictment. That would be a step toward addressing growing public concern over politicization in the DOJ/FBI. Or he could proceed with indictment and set of a titanic constitutional crisis which would require SCOTUS to end. That is a high risk gamble, as it might or might not be settled by election day 2022. (HINT: this SCOTUS is not likely to allow a former POTUS to be prosecuted over something that has traditionally been an implicit power of the office.) So escalation to push this issue into the 2024 elections risks a humiliating defeat in an election year.

For those reasons, in normal politics, Garland could be expected to withdraw after the mid-terms.

But we are not in "normal politics."
We are in "regime politics."
Democrats genuinely appear to believe their own propaganda, that they are defending the realm from fascism.
Prepare for a bumpy ride.

---

Correct. The president is the ultimate arbiter of what is classified or not. That's why it has been obvious from day one it was a political stunt to get overdue library books to the National Archives, which is unprecedented in another act of authoritarian destruction of polity and protocol. Every president keeps records - let's name the last one to get raided by the FBI to return them.

---

The same Government, inventoried, packed the boxes and paid to have them shipped to the location that the FBI had to raid to protect National Security.

---

...at a location guarded by the United States Secret Service

---

Stop deluding these poor people. You know good and well the Secret Service isn't there to monitor what Trump does with his documents.

---

Neither are the Marine Security Guards (MSGs) at our Embassies abroad there to monitor what US diplomats do with their documents.

Both are, however, deployed to protect US Govt personnel and facilities, to specifically include preventing access by unauthorized individuals to facilities, thereby sharply limiting unauthorized access to classified materials at those facilities. Each has specific responsibility to defend the living as well as work spaces of POTUS or equivalent. (A US Ambassador is the PERSONAL representative to POTUS and the senior USG official in country, save for a designated theater commander of the US Military.)

So, actually, the only upgrade to the USSS for the purposes of protecting classified material from unauthorized use would be an armed US military detachment.

(Sorry, but you kinda walked into the proverbial tree limb on that one)

ScruffyD said:

---

I agree with some of your first points. If he is running now, it is because of this.

This has been brewing long before someone could think they would need it for the mid terms. And Biden had finally notched some wins as this broke, no one is talking about that now.

You all used to care about storing classified info securely. Trump even said he'd make it a priority in 2016.

There's some interesting info in last nights filing.

---

There are some definite differences between the Trump and Clinton doc cases. First, an electronic server is much more vulnerable and we were talking recent information. The Trump stuff is hard copy in boxes at a site with SS protection (not NARA standards, but still hard to get the information) and the information is old, over 18 months old. Second, as the President he has different classified info regs than a Cabinet member.

That said, I have always said that Trump was political poison and I do not want him running again. I would hope if he does run I have a better option. But, even if I don't like him personally, I do think this is a witch hunt and the way the Fed Govt has been weaponized to go after a political opponent is the most dangerous threat to Democracy that I have seen.

HuMcK said:

---

Reality Winner got 5yrs in prison for a small fraction of what's in this photo.

NEWS: DOJ's new filing includes. photo of the classified documents found at Mar-a-Lago on Aug. 8. https://t.co/nm567c96bi pic.twitter.com/0U2hoSogxQ

— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) August 31, 2022

---

Anybody else would have long since been under indictment. Trump had some of these papers loose in his desk.

The FBI ended up with his passports because they were mingled with documents in his desk (Trump's staff had claimed all the papers were secured, which turns out not to be true.)

He-through his lawyer-also lied about the documents being stored in 1 secure location.

This thread offers a good summary of exactly what Trump did and the DOJ's response to his special master claim, part of which boils down to the fact that he has no standing, because the documents aren't his--they're the government's, and he stole them.

I have read the entire Government filing. I spend all day, every day, litigating against the Government, so some of this is familiar stuff to see. This particular brief is very well-done.

Here are the highlights:

1) The facts. NARA negotiated in 2021 for the missing

— Bradley P. Moss (@BradMossEsq) August 31, 2022

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

whiterock said:

---

https://amgreatness.com/2022/08/29/one-giant-problem-with-the-fbis-mar-a-lago-raid/

Link states status quo on the question of Presidential classification authority, giving an example I have cited here previously:

"...But in 2017, there were still a few adults at the Washington Post who felt the need to educate the public. Another headline read, "No, Trump did not break the law in talking classified details with the Russians," adding, "The president is essentially the ultimate arbiter of what is classified and what is not. While the heads of particular agencies also have original classification authoritythe power to deem material classified or not classifiedtheir authority is limited to their departments and bound by their departments' particular rules."

"When it comes to classification issues and those kinds of things, he's not above the law," defense attorney Edward B. MacMahon, Jr., told the Post. "He basically is the law."

In other words, Trump did not break the law by revealing classified information to the Russians because the president is the ultimate authority over what is classified. He can reveal or share anything with anyone regardless of its security classification. He doesn't need to follow any procedures or make the decision in writing. If the person with whom he shares the information is not "cleared" to access that classified information, then the classification is automatically modified to permit such access. All that's needed is something that clearly demonstrates the president's intent to share or otherwise dispose of the classified information. Thus, the moment the president told the Russians about the terrorist plot, those Russians were legally allowed to possess the information...."

...and then goes on to make the appropriate connection:

"....When those trucks arrived at Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump was still president. The decision to repose classified documents in Mar-a-Lago was a presidential decision. Joe Biden might not have agreed with Trump's decision keep these records after leaving office. But this situation is no different than Trump's decision to share intelligence with the Russians. He made an executive decision to repose classified documents in his personal residence...."

Garland chose to make a political issue out of this by not waiting until after the mid-terms. After the mid-terms are done, he might chose to de-escalate by announcing he will not seek indictment. That would be a step toward addressing growing public concern over politicization in the DOJ/FBI. Or he could proceed with indictment and set of a titanic constitutional crisis which would require SCOTUS to end. That is a high risk gamble, as it might or might not be settled by election day 2022. (HINT: this SCOTUS is not likely to allow a former POTUS to be prosecuted over something that has traditionally been an implicit power of the office.) So escalation to push this issue into the 2024 elections risks a humiliating defeat in an election year.

For those reasons, in normal politics, Garland could be expected to withdraw after the mid-terms.

But we are not in "normal politics."
We are in "regime politics."
Democrats genuinely appear to believe their own propaganda, that they are defending the realm from fascism.
Prepare for a bumpy ride.

---

Correct. The president is the ultimate arbiter of what is classified or not. That's why it has been obvious from day one it was a political stunt to get overdue library books to the National Archives, which is unprecedented in another act of authoritarian destruction of polity and protocol. Every president keeps records - let's name the last one to get raided by the FBI to return them.

---

The same Government, inventoried, packed the boxes and paid to have them shipped to the location that the FBI had to raid to protect National Security.

---

...at a location guarded by the United States Secret Service

---

Stop deluding these poor people. You know good and well the Secret Service isn't there to monitor what Trump does with his documents.

---

Neither are the Marine Security Guards (MSGs) at our Embassies abroad there to monitor what US diplomats do with their documents.

Both are, however, deployed to protect US Govt personnel and facilities, to specifically include preventing access by unauthorized individuals to facilities, thereby sharply limiting unauthorized access to classified materials at those facilities. Each has specific responsibility to defend the living as well as work spaces of POTUS or equivalent. (A US Ambassador is the PERSONAL representative to POTUS and the senior USG official in country, save for a designated theater commander of the US Military.)

So, actually, the only upgrade to the USSS for the purposes of protecting classified material from unauthorized use would be an armed US military detachment.

(Sorry, but you kinda walked into the proverbial tree limb on that one)

---

There's nothing to be sorry about except for that word salad you just spilled on the table. None of it changes a thing, and you know it. Mar-a-Lago is a hotel, not a government facility. The Secret Service are there to keep out weapons and wiretaps. They have no real idea who's coming or going, let alone who's "authorized."

J.B.Katz said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

Reality Winner got 5yrs in prison for a small fraction of what's in this photo.

NEWS: DOJ's new filing includes. photo of the classified documents found at Mar-a-Lago on Aug. 8. https://t.co/nm567c96bi pic.twitter.com/0U2hoSogxQ

— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) August 31, 2022

---

Anybody else would have long since been under indictment. Trump had some of these papers loose in his desk.

The FBI ended up with his passports because they were mingled with documents in his desk (Trump's staff had claimed all the papers were secured, which turns out not to be true.)

He-through his lawyer-also lied about the documents being stored in 1 secure location.

This thread offers a good summary of exactly what Trump did and the DOJ's response to his special master claim, part of which boils down to the fact that he has no standing, because the documents aren't his--they're the government's, and he stole them.

I have read the entire Government filing. I spend all day, every day, litigating against the Government, so some of this is familiar stuff to see. This particular brief is very well-done.

Here are the highlights:

1) The facts. NARA negotiated in 2021 for the missing

— Bradley P. Moss (@BradMossEsq) August 31, 2022

---

As with all the other stuff, we will see what come of it. Will they indict? If so, will the Government want to go through discovery, i.e. RussiaGate and the other "declassified information" that Trump has???? This could be fun. But, let's see if they actually do anything besides make a big deal in the media before the election. I would bet that they indict but it doesn't go to trial until 2024...

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

If we knew what the files were about, it would help. If Trump declassified them and then Biden is attempting to "Reclassify the Documents", that would be a VIOLATION of Executive Order 13526 - section 1.7

---

No reason to think that's true.

---

obviously there is a reason or it wouldnt have been suggested. If you dont dig, you cant rule out all possibilities. A good prosecutor/investigator/defense atty covers all angles.

If you dont have an answer, you dont have a rebuttal.

---

Suggested by whom?

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

whiterock said:

---

https://amgreatness.com/2022/08/29/one-giant-problem-with-the-fbis-mar-a-lago-raid/

Link states status quo on the question of Presidential classification authority, giving an example I have cited here previously:

"...But in 2017, there were still a few adults at the Washington Post who felt the need to educate the public. Another headline read, "No, Trump did not break the law in talking classified details with the Russians," adding, "The president is essentially the ultimate arbiter of what is classified and what is not. While the heads of particular agencies also have original classification authoritythe power to deem material classified or not classifiedtheir authority is limited to their departments and bound by their departments' particular rules."

"When it comes to classification issues and those kinds of things, he's not above the law," defense attorney Edward B. MacMahon, Jr., told the Post. "He basically is the law."

In other words, Trump did not break the law by revealing classified information to the Russians because the president is the ultimate authority over what is classified. He can reveal or share anything with anyone regardless of its security classification. He doesn't need to follow any procedures or make the decision in writing. If the person with whom he shares the information is not "cleared" to access that classified information, then the classification is automatically modified to permit such access. All that's needed is something that clearly demonstrates the president's intent to share or otherwise dispose of the classified information. Thus, the moment the president told the Russians about the terrorist plot, those Russians were legally allowed to possess the information...."

...and then goes on to make the appropriate connection:

"....When those trucks arrived at Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump was still president. The decision to repose classified documents in Mar-a-Lago was a presidential decision. Joe Biden might not have agreed with Trump's decision keep these records after leaving office. But this situation is no different than Trump's decision to share intelligence with the Russians. He made an executive decision to repose classified documents in his personal residence...."

Garland chose to make a political issue out of this by not waiting until after the mid-terms. After the mid-terms are done, he might chose to de-escalate by announcing he will not seek indictment. That would be a step toward addressing growing public concern over politicization in the DOJ/FBI. Or he could proceed with indictment and set of a titanic constitutional crisis which would require SCOTUS to end. That is a high risk gamble, as it might or might not be settled by election day 2022. (HINT: this SCOTUS is not likely to allow a former POTUS to be prosecuted over something that has traditionally been an implicit power of the office.) So escalation to push this issue into the 2024 elections risks a humiliating defeat in an election year.

For those reasons, in normal politics, Garland could be expected to withdraw after the mid-terms.

But we are not in "normal politics."
We are in "regime politics."
Democrats genuinely appear to believe their own propaganda, that they are defending the realm from fascism.
Prepare for a bumpy ride.

---

Correct. The president is the ultimate arbiter of what is classified or not. That's why it has been obvious from day one it was a political stunt to get overdue library books to the National Archives, which is unprecedented in another act of authoritarian destruction of polity and protocol. Every president keeps records - let's name the last one to get raided by the FBI to return them.

---

The same Government, inventoried, packed the boxes and paid to have them shipped to the location that the FBI had to raid to protect National Security.

---

...at a location guarded by the United States Secret Service

---

Stop deluding these poor people. You know good and well the Secret Service isn't there to monitor what Trump does with his documents.

---

Neither are the Marine Security Guards (MSGs) at our Embassies abroad there to monitor what US diplomats do with their documents.

Both are, however, deployed to protect US Govt personnel and facilities, to specifically include preventing access by unauthorized individuals to facilities, thereby sharply limiting unauthorized access to classified materials at those facilities. Each has specific responsibility to defend the living as well as work spaces of POTUS or equivalent. (A US Ambassador is the PERSONAL representative to POTUS and the senior USG official in country, save for a designated theater commander of the US Military.)

So, actually, the only upgrade to the USSS for the purposes of protecting classified material from unauthorized use would be an armed US military detachment.

(Sorry, but you kinda walked into the proverbial tree limb on that one)

---

There's nothing to be sorry about except for that word salad you just spilled. None of it changes a thing, and you know it. Mar-a-Lago is a hotel, not a government facility. The Secret Service are there to keep out weapons and wiretaps. They have no real idea who's coming or going, let alone who's "authorized."

---

Wrong. MAL is also a personal residence and office. USSS was/is deployed there to protect the President of the United States, his person, his residence, and his office. Access does not happen without their approval. That is/was true at the Bush Ranch, at the Bush home in Dallas, at the Obama home, etc….exceedingly well defended. Access is logged in/out, cameras, armed patrols, etc….

Documents at the residence of a former POTUS are better defended than at any Embassy abroad.

You do not know what you are talking about and are saying demonstrably silly things.

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

whiterock said:

---

https://amgreatness.com/2022/08/29/one-giant-problem-with-the-fbis-mar-a-lago-raid/

Link states status quo on the question of Presidential classification authority, giving an example I have cited here previously:

"...But in 2017, there were still a few adults at the Washington Post who felt the need to educate the public. Another headline read, "No, Trump did not break the law in talking classified details with the Russians," adding, "The president is essentially the ultimate arbiter of what is classified and what is not. While the heads of particular agencies also have original classification authoritythe power to deem material classified or not classifiedtheir authority is limited to their departments and bound by their departments' particular rules."

"When it comes to classification issues and those kinds of things, he's not above the law," defense attorney Edward B. MacMahon, Jr., told the Post. "He basically is the law."

In other words, Trump did not break the law by revealing classified information to the Russians because the president is the ultimate authority over what is classified. He can reveal or share anything with anyone regardless of its security classification. He doesn't need to follow any procedures or make the decision in writing. If the person with whom he shares the information is not "cleared" to access that classified information, then the classification is automatically modified to permit such access. All that's needed is something that clearly demonstrates the president's intent to share or otherwise dispose of the classified information. Thus, the moment the president told the Russians about the terrorist plot, those Russians were legally allowed to possess the information...."

...and then goes on to make the appropriate connection:

"....When those trucks arrived at Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump was still president. The decision to repose classified documents in Mar-a-Lago was a presidential decision. Joe Biden might not have agreed with Trump's decision keep these records after leaving office. But this situation is no different than Trump's decision to share intelligence with the Russians. He made an executive decision to repose classified documents in his personal residence...."

Garland chose to make a political issue out of this by not waiting until after the mid-terms. After the mid-terms are done, he might chose to de-escalate by announcing he will not seek indictment. That would be a step toward addressing growing public concern over politicization in the DOJ/FBI. Or he could proceed with indictment and set of a titanic constitutional crisis which would require SCOTUS to end. That is a high risk gamble, as it might or might not be settled by election day 2022. (HINT: this SCOTUS is not likely to allow a former POTUS to be prosecuted over something that has traditionally been an implicit power of the office.) So escalation to push this issue into the 2024 elections risks a humiliating defeat in an election year.

For those reasons, in normal politics, Garland could be expected to withdraw after the mid-terms.

But we are not in "normal politics."
We are in "regime politics."
Democrats genuinely appear to believe their own propaganda, that they are defending the realm from fascism.
Prepare for a bumpy ride.

---

Correct. The president is the ultimate arbiter of what is classified or not. That's why it has been obvious from day one it was a political stunt to get overdue library books to the National Archives, which is unprecedented in another act of authoritarian destruction of polity and protocol. Every president keeps records - let's name the last one to get raided by the FBI to return them.

---

The same Government, inventoried, packed the boxes and paid to have them shipped to the location that the FBI had to raid to protect National Security.

---

...at a location guarded by the United States Secret Service

---

Stop deluding these poor people. You know good and well the Secret Service isn't there to monitor what Trump does with his documents.

---

Neither are the Marine Security Guards (MSGs) at our Embassies abroad there to monitor what US diplomats do with their documents.

Both are, however, deployed to protect US Govt personnel and facilities, to specifically include preventing access by unauthorized individuals to facilities, thereby sharply limiting unauthorized access to classified materials at those facilities. Each has specific responsibility to defend the living as well as work spaces of POTUS or equivalent. (A US Ambassador is the PERSONAL representative to POTUS and the senior USG official in country, save for a designated theater commander of the US Military.)

So, actually, the only upgrade to the USSS for the purposes of protecting classified material from unauthorized use would be an armed US military detachment.

(Sorry, but you kinda walked into the proverbial tree limb on that one)

---

There's nothing to be sorry about except for that word salad you just spilled. None of it changes a thing, and you know it. Mar-a-Lago is a hotel, not a government facility. The Secret Service are there to keep out weapons and wiretaps. They have no real idea who's coming or going, let alone who's "authorized."

---

Wrong. MAL is also a personal residence and office. USSS was/is deployed there to protect the President of the United States, his person, his residence, and his office. Access does not happen without their approval. That is/was true at the Bush Ranch, at the Bush home in Dallas, at the Obama home, etc….exceedingly well defended. Access is logged in/out, cameras, armed patrols, etc….

Documents at the residence of a former POTUS are better defended than at any Embassy abroad.

You do not know what you are talking about and are saying demonstrably silly things.

---

You do know what you're talking about (presumably) and are saying demonstrably silly things...which is worse.

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

whiterock said:

---

https://amgreatness.com/2022/08/29/one-giant-problem-with-the-fbis-mar-a-lago-raid/

Link states status quo on the question of Presidential classification authority, giving an example I have cited here previously:

"...But in 2017, there were still a few adults at the Washington Post who felt the need to educate the public. Another headline read, "No, Trump did not break the law in talking classified details with the Russians," adding, "The president is essentially the ultimate arbiter of what is classified and what is not. While the heads of particular agencies also have original classification authoritythe power to deem material classified or not classifiedtheir authority is limited to their departments and bound by their departments' particular rules."

"When it comes to classification issues and those kinds of things, he's not above the law," defense attorney Edward B. MacMahon, Jr., told the Post. "He basically is the law."

In other words, Trump did not break the law by revealing classified information to the Russians because the president is the ultimate authority over what is classified. He can reveal or share anything with anyone regardless of its security classification. He doesn't need to follow any procedures or make the decision in writing. If the person with whom he shares the information is not "cleared" to access that classified information, then the classification is automatically modified to permit such access. All that's needed is something that clearly demonstrates the president's intent to share or otherwise dispose of the classified information. Thus, the moment the president told the Russians about the terrorist plot, those Russians were legally allowed to possess the information...."

...and then goes on to make the appropriate connection:

"....When those trucks arrived at Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump was still president. The decision to repose classified documents in Mar-a-Lago was a presidential decision. Joe Biden might not have agreed with Trump's decision keep these records after leaving office. But this situation is no different than Trump's decision to share intelligence with the Russians. He made an executive decision to repose classified documents in his personal residence...."

Garland chose to make a political issue out of this by not waiting until after the mid-terms. After the mid-terms are done, he might chose to de-escalate by announcing he will not seek indictment. That would be a step toward addressing growing public concern over politicization in the DOJ/FBI. Or he could proceed with indictment and set of a titanic constitutional crisis which would require SCOTUS to end. That is a high risk gamble, as it might or might not be settled by election day 2022. (HINT: this SCOTUS is not likely to allow a former POTUS to be prosecuted over something that has traditionally been an implicit power of the office.) So escalation to push this issue into the 2024 elections risks a humiliating defeat in an election year.

For those reasons, in normal politics, Garland could be expected to withdraw after the mid-terms.

But we are not in "normal politics."
We are in "regime politics."
Democrats genuinely appear to believe their own propaganda, that they are defending the realm from fascism.
Prepare for a bumpy ride.

---

Correct. The president is the ultimate arbiter of what is classified or not. That's why it has been obvious from day one it was a political stunt to get overdue library books to the National Archives, which is unprecedented in another act of authoritarian destruction of polity and protocol. Every president keeps records - let's name the last one to get raided by the FBI to return them.

---

The same Government, inventoried, packed the boxes and paid to have them shipped to the location that the FBI had to raid to protect National Security.

---

...at a location guarded by the United States Secret Service

---

Stop deluding these poor people. You know good and well the Secret Service isn't there to monitor what Trump does with his documents.

---

Neither are the Marine Security Guards (MSGs) at our Embassies abroad there to monitor what US diplomats do with their documents.

Both are, however, deployed to protect US Govt personnel and facilities, to specifically include preventing access by unauthorized individuals to facilities, thereby sharply limiting unauthorized access to classified materials at those facilities. Each has specific responsibility to defend the living as well as work spaces of POTUS or equivalent. (A US Ambassador is the PERSONAL representative to POTUS and the senior USG official in country, save for a designated theater commander of the US Military.)

So, actually, the only upgrade to the USSS for the purposes of protecting classified material from unauthorized use would be an armed US military detachment.

(Sorry, but you kinda walked into the proverbial tree limb on that one)

---

There's nothing to be sorry about except for that word salad you just spilled. None of it changes a thing, and you know it. Mar-a-Lago is a hotel, not a government facility. The Secret Service are there to keep out weapons and wiretaps. They have no real idea who's coming or going, let alone who's "authorized."

---

Wrong. MAL is also a personal residence and office. USSS was/is deployed there to protect the President of the United States, his person, his residence, and his office. Access does not happen without their approval. That is/was true at the Bush Ranch, at the Bush home in Dallas, at the Obama home, etc….exceedingly well defended. Access is logged in/out, cameras, armed patrols, etc….

Documents at the residence of a former POTUS are better defended than at any Embassy abroad.

You do not know what you are talking about and are saying demonstrably silly things.

---

You do know what you're talking about (presumably) and are saying demonstrably silly things...which is worse.

---

Ok. Elaborate.

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

whiterock said:

---

https://amgreatness.com/2022/08/29/one-giant-problem-with-the-fbis-mar-a-lago-raid/

Link states status quo on the question of Presidential classification authority, giving an example I have cited here previously:

"...But in 2017, there were still a few adults at the Washington Post who felt the need to educate the public. Another headline read, "No, Trump did not break the law in talking classified details with the Russians," adding, "The president is essentially the ultimate arbiter of what is classified and what is not. While the heads of particular agencies also have original classification authoritythe power to deem material classified or not classifiedtheir authority is limited to their departments and bound by their departments' particular rules."

"When it comes to classification issues and those kinds of things, he's not above the law," defense attorney Edward B. MacMahon, Jr., told the Post. "He basically is the law."

In other words, Trump did not break the law by revealing classified information to the Russians because the president is the ultimate authority over what is classified. He can reveal or share anything with anyone regardless of its security classification. He doesn't need to follow any procedures or make the decision in writing. If the person with whom he shares the information is not "cleared" to access that classified information, then the classification is automatically modified to permit such access. All that's needed is something that clearly demonstrates the president's intent to share or otherwise dispose of the classified information. Thus, the moment the president told the Russians about the terrorist plot, those Russians were legally allowed to possess the information...."

...and then goes on to make the appropriate connection:

"....When those trucks arrived at Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump was still president. The decision to repose classified documents in Mar-a-Lago was a presidential decision. Joe Biden might not have agreed with Trump's decision keep these records after leaving office. But this situation is no different than Trump's decision to share intelligence with the Russians. He made an executive decision to repose classified documents in his personal residence...."

Garland chose to make a political issue out of this by not waiting until after the mid-terms. After the mid-terms are done, he might chose to de-escalate by announcing he will not seek indictment. That would be a step toward addressing growing public concern over politicization in the DOJ/FBI. Or he could proceed with indictment and set of a titanic constitutional crisis which would require SCOTUS to end. That is a high risk gamble, as it might or might not be settled by election day 2022. (HINT: this SCOTUS is not likely to allow a former POTUS to be prosecuted over something that has traditionally been an implicit power of the office.) So escalation to push this issue into the 2024 elections risks a humiliating defeat in an election year.

For those reasons, in normal politics, Garland could be expected to withdraw after the mid-terms.

But we are not in "normal politics."
We are in "regime politics."
Democrats genuinely appear to believe their own propaganda, that they are defending the realm from fascism.
Prepare for a bumpy ride.

---

Correct. The president is the ultimate arbiter of what is classified or not. That's why it has been obvious from day one it was a political stunt to get overdue library books to the National Archives, which is unprecedented in another act of authoritarian destruction of polity and protocol. Every president keeps records - let's name the last one to get raided by the FBI to return them.

---

The same Government, inventoried, packed the boxes and paid to have them shipped to the location that the FBI had to raid to protect National Security.

---

...at a location guarded by the United States Secret Service

---

Stop deluding these poor people. You know good and well the Secret Service isn't there to monitor what Trump does with his documents.

---

Neither are the Marine Security Guards (MSGs) at our Embassies abroad there to monitor what US diplomats do with their documents.

Both are, however, deployed to protect US Govt personnel and facilities, to specifically include preventing access by unauthorized individuals to facilities, thereby sharply limiting unauthorized access to classified materials at those facilities. Each has specific responsibility to defend the living as well as work spaces of POTUS or equivalent. (A US Ambassador is the PERSONAL representative to POTUS and the senior USG official in country, save for a designated theater commander of the US Military.)

So, actually, the only upgrade to the USSS for the purposes of protecting classified material from unauthorized use would be an armed US military detachment.

(Sorry, but you kinda walked into the proverbial tree limb on that one)

---

There's nothing to be sorry about except for that word salad you just spilled. None of it changes a thing, and you know it. Mar-a-Lago is a hotel, not a government facility. The Secret Service are there to keep out weapons and wiretaps. They have no real idea who's coming or going, let alone who's "authorized."

---

Wrong. MAL is also a personal residence and office. USSS was/is deployed there to protect the President of the United States, his person, his residence, and his office. Access does not happen without their approval. That is/was true at the Bush Ranch, at the Bush home in Dallas, at the Obama home, etc….exceedingly well defended. Access is logged in/out, cameras, armed patrols, etc….

Documents at the residence of a former POTUS are better defended than at any Embassy abroad.

You do not know what you are talking about and are saying demonstrably silly things.

---

You do know what you're talking about (presumably) and are saying demonstrably silly things...which is worse.

---

Odd hill to choose to die on. Your position is you believe Trump wouldn't have a serious security team regardless of USSS presence and it is based on nothing but your imagination. It's insane to assume a very wealthy man with so many violent leftists calling for his demise every day wouldn't bother to hire security, and that is your premise here. You day drinking? This isn't like you.

This makes me beyond angry. When I get access to these types of docs they are in a scif, I can’t take notes, and someone is in the room with me. Trump doesn’t care about this country. Hey @EliseStefanik and @GOPLeader you ok with this??? https://t.co/eZY1CA5lP4

— Adam Kinzinger🇺🇦🇺🇸✌️ (@AdamKinzinger) August 31, 2022

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

whiterock said:

---

https://amgreatness.com/2022/08/29/one-giant-problem-with-the-fbis-mar-a-lago-raid/

Link states status quo on the question of Presidential classification authority, giving an example I have cited here previously:

"...But in 2017, there were still a few adults at the Washington Post who felt the need to educate the public. Another headline read, "No, Trump did not break the law in talking classified details with the Russians," adding, "The president is essentially the ultimate arbiter of what is classified and what is not. While the heads of particular agencies also have original classification authoritythe power to deem material classified or not classifiedtheir authority is limited to their departments and bound by their departments' particular rules."

"When it comes to classification issues and those kinds of things, he's not above the law," defense attorney Edward B. MacMahon, Jr., told the Post. "He basically is the law."

In other words, Trump did not break the law by revealing classified information to the Russians because the president is the ultimate authority over what is classified. He can reveal or share anything with anyone regardless of its security classification. He doesn't need to follow any procedures or make the decision in writing. If the person with whom he shares the information is not "cleared" to access that classified information, then the classification is automatically modified to permit such access. All that's needed is something that clearly demonstrates the president's intent to share or otherwise dispose of the classified information. Thus, the moment the president told the Russians about the terrorist plot, those Russians were legally allowed to possess the information...."

...and then goes on to make the appropriate connection:

"....When those trucks arrived at Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump was still president. The decision to repose classified documents in Mar-a-Lago was a presidential decision. Joe Biden might not have agreed with Trump's decision keep these records after leaving office. But this situation is no different than Trump's decision to share intelligence with the Russians. He made an executive decision to repose classified documents in his personal residence...."

Garland chose to make a political issue out of this by not waiting until after the mid-terms. After the mid-terms are done, he might chose to de-escalate by announcing he will not seek indictment. That would be a step toward addressing growing public concern over politicization in the DOJ/FBI. Or he could proceed with indictment and set of a titanic constitutional crisis which would require SCOTUS to end. That is a high risk gamble, as it might or might not be settled by election day 2022. (HINT: this SCOTUS is not likely to allow a former POTUS to be prosecuted over something that has traditionally been an implicit power of the office.) So escalation to push this issue into the 2024 elections risks a humiliating defeat in an election year.

For those reasons, in normal politics, Garland could be expected to withdraw after the mid-terms.

But we are not in "normal politics."
We are in "regime politics."
Democrats genuinely appear to believe their own propaganda, that they are defending the realm from fascism.
Prepare for a bumpy ride.

---

Correct. The president is the ultimate arbiter of what is classified or not. That's why it has been obvious from day one it was a political stunt to get overdue library books to the National Archives, which is unprecedented in another act of authoritarian destruction of polity and protocol. Every president keeps records - let's name the last one to get raided by the FBI to return them.

---

The same Government, inventoried, packed the boxes and paid to have them shipped to the location that the FBI had to raid to protect National Security.

---

...at a location guarded by the United States Secret Service

---

Stop deluding these poor people. You know good and well the Secret Service isn't there to monitor what Trump does with his documents.

---

Neither are the Marine Security Guards (MSGs) at our Embassies abroad there to monitor what US diplomats do with their documents.

Both are, however, deployed to protect US Govt personnel and facilities, to specifically include preventing access by unauthorized individuals to facilities, thereby sharply limiting unauthorized access to classified materials at those facilities. Each has specific responsibility to defend the living as well as work spaces of POTUS or equivalent. (A US Ambassador is the PERSONAL representative to POTUS and the senior USG official in country, save for a designated theater commander of the US Military.)

So, actually, the only upgrade to the USSS for the purposes of protecting classified material from unauthorized use would be an armed US military detachment.

(Sorry, but you kinda walked into the proverbial tree limb on that one)

---

There's nothing to be sorry about except for that word salad you just spilled. None of it changes a thing, and you know it. Mar-a-Lago is a hotel, not a government facility. The Secret Service are there to keep out weapons and wiretaps. They have no real idea who's coming or going, let alone who's "authorized."

---

Wrong. MAL is also a personal residence and office. USSS was/is deployed there to protect the President of the United States, his person, his residence, and his office. Access does not happen without their approval. That is/was true at the Bush Ranch, at the Bush home in Dallas, at the Obama home, etc….exceedingly well defended. Access is logged in/out, cameras, armed patrols, etc….

Documents at the residence of a former POTUS are better defended than at any Embassy abroad.

You do not know what you are talking about and are saying demonstrably silly things.

---

All the emphasis on documents misses an important point. It is the information that is classified, not just the document. So while it is unlikely that a burglar is going to slip by the Secret Service, they are not tasked with making sure "loose lips [don't] sink ships."

Documents are secured because, among other things, doing so prevents access by people who may unintentionally compromise classified information. Mar-a-Lago does not seem to be an ideal location for that type of protection.

J.B.Katz said:

---

This makes me beyond angry. When I get access to these types of docs they are in a scif, I can’t take notes, and someone is in the room with me. Trump doesn’t care about this country. Hey @EliseStefanik and @GOPLeader you ok with this??? https://t.co/eZY1CA5lP4

— Adam Kinzinger🇺🇦🇺🇸✌️ (@AdamKinzinger) August 31, 2022

---

Let's see how this plays out. Are they truly classified? Will this turn into a fight over if the President has the authority to declassify? If so, it will probably end up at Supreme Court or Congress will pass a law. Without intent, there will be no criminal prosecution, Clinton case precedent, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out. I bet on Supreme Court in 2024 on the President's ability to declassify docs...

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

whiterock said:

---

https://amgreatness.com/2022/08/29/one-giant-problem-with-the-fbis-mar-a-lago-raid/

Link states status quo on the question of Presidential classification authority, giving an example I have cited here previously:

"...But in 2017, there were still a few adults at the Washington Post who felt the need to educate the public. Another headline read, "No, Trump did not break the law in talking classified details with the Russians," adding, "The president is essentially the ultimate arbiter of what is classified and what is not. While the heads of particular agencies also have original classification authoritythe power to deem material classified or not classifiedtheir authority is limited to their departments and bound by their departments' particular rules."

"When it comes to classification issues and those kinds of things, he's not above the law," defense attorney Edward B. MacMahon, Jr., told the Post. "He basically is the law."

In other words, Trump did not break the law by revealing classified information to the Russians because the president is the ultimate authority over what is classified. He can reveal or share anything with anyone regardless of its security classification. He doesn't need to follow any procedures or make the decision in writing. If the person with whom he shares the information is not "cleared" to access that classified information, then the classification is automatically modified to permit such access. All that's needed is something that clearly demonstrates the president's intent to share or otherwise dispose of the classified information. Thus, the moment the president told the Russians about the terrorist plot, those Russians were legally allowed to possess the information...."

...and then goes on to make the appropriate connection:

"....When those trucks arrived at Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump was still president. The decision to repose classified documents in Mar-a-Lago was a presidential decision. Joe Biden might not have agreed with Trump's decision keep these records after leaving office. But this situation is no different than Trump's decision to share intelligence with the Russians. He made an executive decision to repose classified documents in his personal residence...."

Garland chose to make a political issue out of this by not waiting until after the mid-terms. After the mid-terms are done, he might chose to de-escalate by announcing he will not seek indictment. That would be a step toward addressing growing public concern over politicization in the DOJ/FBI. Or he could proceed with indictment and set of a titanic constitutional crisis which would require SCOTUS to end. That is a high risk gamble, as it might or might not be settled by election day 2022. (HINT: this SCOTUS is not likely to allow a former POTUS to be prosecuted over something that has traditionally been an implicit power of the office.) So escalation to push this issue into the 2024 elections risks a humiliating defeat in an election year.

For those reasons, in normal politics, Garland could be expected to withdraw after the mid-terms.

But we are not in "normal politics."
We are in "regime politics."
Democrats genuinely appear to believe their own propaganda, that they are defending the realm from fascism.
Prepare for a bumpy ride.

---

Correct. The president is the ultimate arbiter of what is classified or not. That's why it has been obvious from day one it was a political stunt to get overdue library books to the National Archives, which is unprecedented in another act of authoritarian destruction of polity and protocol. Every president keeps records - let's name the last one to get raided by the FBI to return them.

---

The same Government, inventoried, packed the boxes and paid to have them shipped to the location that the FBI had to raid to protect National Security.

---

...at a location guarded by the United States Secret Service

---

Stop deluding these poor people. You know good and well the Secret Service isn't there to monitor what Trump does with his documents.

---

Neither are the Marine Security Guards (MSGs) at our Embassies abroad there to monitor what US diplomats do with their documents.

Both are, however, deployed to protect US Govt personnel and facilities, to specifically include preventing access by unauthorized individuals to facilities, thereby sharply limiting unauthorized access to classified materials at those facilities. Each has specific responsibility to defend the living as well as work spaces of POTUS or equivalent. (A US Ambassador is the PERSONAL representative to POTUS and the senior USG official in country, save for a designated theater commander of the US Military.)

So, actually, the only upgrade to the USSS for the purposes of protecting classified material from unauthorized use would be an armed US military detachment.

(Sorry, but you kinda walked into the proverbial tree limb on that one)

---

There's nothing to be sorry about except for that word salad you just spilled. None of it changes a thing, and you know it. Mar-a-Lago is a hotel, not a government facility. The Secret Service are there to keep out weapons and wiretaps. They have no real idea who's coming or going, let alone who's "authorized."

---

Wrong. MAL is also a personal residence and office. USSS was/is deployed there to protect the President of the United States, his person, his residence, and his office. Access does not happen without their approval. That is/was true at the Bush Ranch, at the Bush home in Dallas, at the Obama home, etc….exceedingly well defended. Access is logged in/out, cameras, armed patrols, etc….

Documents at the residence of a former POTUS are better defended than at any Embassy abroad.

You do not know what you are talking about and are saying demonstrably silly things.

---

You do know what you're talking about (presumably) and are saying demonstrably silly things...which is worse.

---

Odd hill to choose to die on. Your position is you believe Trump wouldn't have a serious security team regardless of USSS presence and it is based on nothing but your imagination. It's insane to assume a very wealthy man with so many violent leftists calling for his demise every day wouldn't bother to hire security, and that is your premise here. You day drinking? This isn't like you.

---

Speaking of odd hills to die on, imagine arguing that the security at Mar A Lago was anything but abysmal. We know of at least two examples where foreigners successfully infiltrated Mar A Lago, and the security there has been (in)famously lax for years...

https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjkvpm/mar-a-lago-security-breaches

Some quick excerpts, and this doesn't even include the latest reporting about a Russian speaking woman who got in by claiming to be a Rothschild:

Quote:

---

Trump's club was once blasted by a former FBI agent as arguably "the worst counterintelligence nightmare the country has faced since the Cold War."
...
In 2017, Trump was spotted conducting sensitive foreign policy discussions with the Japanese prime minister at a table on the club's back patio in full view of other guests eating dinner.
...
In one infamous 2019 incident, Yujing Zhang, a 32-year-old Chinese woman, was arrested after evading security. She was carrying five cell phone SIM cards, a hard drive, nine USB thumb drives including one primed with malware, and a device that could detect electronic signals. She had two Chinese passports, and investigators found a device for detecting hidden cameras when they searched her hotel room.
...
A second Chinese national was arrested while trying to get into Mar-a-Lago that same year.
...
Clever spies itching to probe the club's inner workings needn't personally enter the venue, of course, so long as they could find one of the club's hundreds of members willing to pull off an inside job. A list of the club's 500 members has leaked in the past.
...
Shortly after Trump assumed the presidency, a team of journalists from ProPublica and Gizmodo piloted a 17-foot motorboat up to the back lawn of Mar-a-Lago and aimed "a 2-foot wireless antenna that resembled a potato gun toward the club." "Within a minute, we spotted three weakly encrypted Wi-Fi networks. We could have hacked them in less than five minutes, but we refrained," they concluded.

---

So much for Merrick Garland’s claim that the DOJ "will speak through its court filings”. His own people are laughing at him. This photo shows that the FBI/DOJ is unabashed by the public outcry over their botched raid. That should worry everyone https://t.co/QRULIYR2qo

— Miranda Devine (@mirandadevine) August 31, 2022

RMF5630 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

This makes me beyond angry. When I get access to these types of docs they are in a scif, I can’t take notes, and someone is in the room with me. Trump doesn’t care about this country. Hey @EliseStefanik and @GOPLeader you ok with this??? https://t.co/eZY1CA5lP4

— Adam Kinzinger🇺🇦🇺🇸✌️ (@AdamKinzinger) August 31, 2022

---

Let's see how this plays out. Are they truly classified? Will this turn into a fight over if the President has the authority to declassify? If so, it will probably end up at Supreme Court or Congress will pass a law. Without intent, there will be no criminal prosecution, Clinton case precedent, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out. I bet on Supreme Court in 2024 on the President's ability to declassify docs...

---

Keeping the documents is unlawful regardless of classification status.

He did not declassify the documents-that is jus ex post facto nonsense he made up. Not one member of his administration has backed him up on that.

Even forfeiting those two points, was it good for the country to have highly sensitive documents floating around Mar-a-Lago?

Deliberate defiance of a subpoena is strong evidence of intent. DoJ filings are practically spelling out for you in detail that they have evidence the documents were willfully withheld, and even moved around to avoid detection when the FBI sent agents out there to collect the first time.

Hillary turned over what she had, and what she didn't have was recovered through other means. That's the difference here, she didn't lie in sworn declarations or ignore subpoenaes like Trump did, and she didn't move stuff around so investigators wouldn't find it.

HuMcK said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

whiterock said:

---

https://amgreatness.com/2022/08/29/one-giant-problem-with-the-fbis-mar-a-lago-raid/

Link states status quo on the question of Presidential classification authority, giving an example I have cited here previously:

"...But in 2017, there were still a few adults at the Washington Post who felt the need to educate the public. Another headline read, "No, Trump did not break the law in talking classified details with the Russians," adding, "The president is essentially the ultimate arbiter of what is classified and what is not. While the heads of particular agencies also have original classification authoritythe power to deem material classified or not classifiedtheir authority is limited to their departments and bound by their departments' particular rules."

"When it comes to classification issues and those kinds of things, he's not above the law," defense attorney Edward B. MacMahon, Jr., told the Post. "He basically is the law."

In other words, Trump did not break the law by revealing classified information to the Russians because the president is the ultimate authority over what is classified. He can reveal or share anything with anyone regardless of its security classification. He doesn't need to follow any procedures or make the decision in writing. If the person with whom he shares the information is not "cleared" to access that classified information, then the classification is automatically modified to permit such access. All that's needed is something that clearly demonstrates the president's intent to share or otherwise dispose of the classified information. Thus, the moment the president told the Russians about the terrorist plot, those Russians were legally allowed to possess the information...."

...and then goes on to make the appropriate connection:

"....When those trucks arrived at Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump was still president. The decision to repose classified documents in Mar-a-Lago was a presidential decision. Joe Biden might not have agreed with Trump's decision keep these records after leaving office. But this situation is no different than Trump's decision to share intelligence with the Russians. He made an executive decision to repose classified documents in his personal residence...."

Garland chose to make a political issue out of this by not waiting until after the mid-terms. After the mid-terms are done, he might chose to de-escalate by announcing he will not seek indictment. That would be a step toward addressing growing public concern over politicization in the DOJ/FBI. Or he could proceed with indictment and set of a titanic constitutional crisis which would require SCOTUS to end. That is a high risk gamble, as it might or might not be settled by election day 2022. (HINT: this SCOTUS is not likely to allow a former POTUS to be prosecuted over something that has traditionally been an implicit power of the office.) So escalation to push this issue into the 2024 elections risks a humiliating defeat in an election year.

For those reasons, in normal politics, Garland could be expected to withdraw after the mid-terms.

But we are not in "normal politics."
We are in "regime politics."
Democrats genuinely appear to believe their own propaganda, that they are defending the realm from fascism.
Prepare for a bumpy ride.

---

Correct. The president is the ultimate arbiter of what is classified or not. That's why it has been obvious from day one it was a political stunt to get overdue library books to the National Archives, which is unprecedented in another act of authoritarian destruction of polity and protocol. Every president keeps records - let's name the last one to get raided by the FBI to return them.

---

The same Government, inventoried, packed the boxes and paid to have them shipped to the location that the FBI had to raid to protect National Security.

---

...at a location guarded by the United States Secret Service

---

Stop deluding these poor people. You know good and well the Secret Service isn't there to monitor what Trump does with his documents.

---

Neither are the Marine Security Guards (MSGs) at our Embassies abroad there to monitor what US diplomats do with their documents.

Both are, however, deployed to protect US Govt personnel and facilities, to specifically include preventing access by unauthorized individuals to facilities, thereby sharply limiting unauthorized access to classified materials at those facilities. Each has specific responsibility to defend the living as well as work spaces of POTUS or equivalent. (A US Ambassador is the PERSONAL representative to POTUS and the senior USG official in country, save for a designated theater commander of the US Military.)

So, actually, the only upgrade to the USSS for the purposes of protecting classified material from unauthorized use would be an armed US military detachment.

(Sorry, but you kinda walked into the proverbial tree limb on that one)

---

There's nothing to be sorry about except for that word salad you just spilled. None of it changes a thing, and you know it. Mar-a-Lago is a hotel, not a government facility. The Secret Service are there to keep out weapons and wiretaps. They have no real idea who's coming or going, let alone who's "authorized."

---

Wrong. MAL is also a personal residence and office. USSS was/is deployed there to protect the President of the United States, his person, his residence, and his office. Access does not happen without their approval. That is/was true at the Bush Ranch, at the Bush home in Dallas, at the Obama home, etc….exceedingly well defended. Access is logged in/out, cameras, armed patrols, etc….

Documents at the residence of a former POTUS are better defended than at any Embassy abroad.

You do not know what you are talking about and are saying demonstrably silly things.

---

You do know what you're talking about (presumably) and are saying demonstrably silly things...which is worse.

---

Odd hill to choose to die on. Your position is you believe Trump wouldn't have a serious security team regardless of USSS presence and it is based on nothing but your imagination. It's insane to assume a very wealthy man with so many violent leftists calling for his demise every day wouldn't bother to hire security, and that is your premise here. You day drinking? This isn't like you.

---

Speaking of odd hills to die on, imagine arguing that the security at Mar A Lago was anything but abysmal. We know of at least two examples where foreigners successfully infiltrated Mar A Lago, and the security there has been (in)famously lax for years...

https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjkvpm/mar-a-lago-security-breaches

Some quick excerpts, and this doesn't even include the latest reporting about a Russian speaking woman who got in by claiming to be a Rothschild:

Quote:

---

Trump's club was once blasted by a former FBI agent as arguably "the worst counterintelligence nightmare the country has faced since the Cold War."
...
In 2017, Trump was spotted conducting sensitive foreign policy discussions with the Japanese prime minister at a table on the club's back patio in full view of other guests eating dinner.
...
In one infamous 2019 incident, Yujing Zhang, a 32-year-old Chinese woman, was arrested after evading security. She was carrying five cell phone SIM cards, a hard drive, nine USB thumb drives including one primed with malware, and a device that could detect electronic signals. She had two Chinese passports, and investigators found a device for detecting hidden cameras when they searched her hotel room.
...
A second Chinese national was arrested while trying to get into Mar-a-Lago that same year.
...
Clever spies itching to probe the club's inner workings needn't personally enter the venue, of course, so long as they could find one of the club's hundreds of members willing to pull off an inside job. A list of the club's 500 members has leaked in the past.
...
Shortly after Trump assumed the presidency, a team of journalists from ProPublica and Gizmodo piloted a 17-foot motorboat up to the back lawn of Mar-a-Lago and aimed "a 2-foot wireless antenna that resembled a potato gun toward the club." "Within a minute, we spotted three weakly encrypted Wi-Fi networks. We could have hacked them in less than five minutes, but we refrained," they concluded.

---

---

So in every situation it's democrats accusing MAL of having bad security due to the people CAUGHT before any real breach could be made? That's hilarious!

riflebear said:

---

So much for Merrick Garland’s claim that the DOJ "will speak through its court filings”. His own people are laughing at him. This photo shows that the FBI/DOJ is unabashed by the public outcry over their botched raid. That should worry everyone https://t.co/QRULIYR2qo

— Miranda Devine (@mirandadevine) August 31, 2022

---

It's incompetent lawyering by Trump's team.

Trump's attorneys waited for two weeks and then filed a request for a Special Master, which was negligent in timing and sequence.

The FBI then gets to file a formal response, which you see here. You never see the photo if not for the court response; Trump should fire his attorney.