Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

Does God have a place in your scientific age?

---

With y'all yes: you keep putting him in the gaps .

---

With the word "y'all" I assume you mean Evangelicals and Fundamentalist. We, process theologians and philosophers, deny the supernatural but believe that yes, the scientific age does accommodate God because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable.
Alfred North Whitehead was both a physicist and a theologian and a Christian. When one views the scientific, physical world then one must ground their theology in science. My birth is simply a gift from the cosmos and the fact that I exist means that I am act of grace by that same cosmos. That understanding is not supernatural but science based. I live.
Yes, the scientific age does accommodate God as understood to be love because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable. God is love pure and simple. That is not scientifically based but existentially based.
As to my death it is not supernatural and Satan and hell but simply That I die in faith into love of God.

---

Typical load of crap from you. So it appears you have no answer.

---

Here my premise: Take it apart. I anxious to know the weakness in my argument.
The scientific age does accommodate God because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable.

---

I was confirmed in the Episcopal Church 25 years ago. Your "arguments" are definitely worthy of inclusion with the finest Episcobabble.

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

The "scientific age"? Really? Americans tend toward the stupid and are clearly devolving intellectually. Absent the influence of Christianity, what comes next will be beyond our worst imagining.

---

Whether "Americans tend toward stupid" is immaterial to this Fact: The scientific age is here and superstition is dead.
Argue against this premise.

I will admit that Americans tend toward believing in superstition but sciene says it is dead.

---

Belief in "science" is just another form of superstition. What you call "science" is just scientism (aka superstition or pseudoscience).

---

That is to say, not the belief in science but in "science."

Loved the Jesus commercial at Super Bowl. Someone ponied up some cash. Thought is was good message, better than the nornal!

Osodecentx said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Share your comments.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/the-collapse-of-faith-in-america/

(ps i posted before I read all of it.)

---

I wonder if this thread is misnamed. Instead of the collapse of the Christian faith, it should be named the collapse of religiosity or the collapse of fake Christianity.

True Christianity is difficult and demands much while religiosity and superstition are easy and is subject only to the whims of the adherent. There are many "churches" where the yolk is easy.

I do not dispute that "church" attendance in America is declining, but I see many places where God's message and His people flourish, not financially, but spiritually.

---

Go to any WorkForce Development Organization and you will see people that put aside financial rewards to help people. Tough road to walk.

Waco1947 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

Does God have a place in your scientific age?

---

With y'all yes: you keep putting him in the gaps .

---

With the word "y'all" I assume you mean Evangelicals and Fundamentalist. We, process theologians and philosophers, deny the supernatural but believe that yes, the scientific age does accommodate God because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable.
Alfred North Whitehead was both a physicist and a theologian and a Christian. When one views the scientific, physical world then one must ground their theology in science. My birth is simply a gift from the cosmos and the fact that I exist means that I am act of grace by that same cosmos. That understanding is not supernatural but science based. I live.
Yes, the scientific age does accommodate God as understood to be love because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable. God is love pure and simple. That is not scientifically based but existentially based.
As to my death it is not supernatural and Satan and hell but simply That I die in faith into love of God.

---

So, you can prove the existence of God because of his purported commandment to love in scripture?

That makes absolutely no sense.

---

Sire it makes sense. The letters of John are crystal clear. God is love What command to you as a Christian Is the most important??

---

John's letters are written to those who obey God's commands.

---

And to describe God
You might note how I John talks of those who not love their enemies I John 4 My dear friends, we must love each other. Love comes from God, and when we love each other, it shows we have been given new life. We are now God's children, and we know him. 8 God is love, and anyone who doesn't love others has never known him.

---

How does God impart the emotion of love to humanity. He has no special powers. Remember?

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

Does God have a place in your scientific age?

---

With y'all yes: you keep putting him in the gaps .

---

With the word "y'all" I assume you mean Evangelicals and Fundamentalist. We, process theologians and philosophers, deny the supernatural but believe that yes, the scientific age does accommodate God because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable.
Alfred North Whitehead was both a physicist and a theologian and a Christian. When one views the scientific, physical world then one must ground their theology in science. My birth is simply a gift from the cosmos and the fact that I exist means that I am act of grace by that same cosmos. That understanding is not supernatural but science based. I live.
Yes, the scientific age does accommodate God as understood to be love because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable. God is love pure and simple. That is not scientifically based but existentially based.
As to my death it is not supernatural and Satan and hell but simply That I die in faith into love of God.

---

Typical load of crap from you. So it appears you have no answer.

---

Here my premise: Take it apart. I anxious to know the weakness in my argument.
The scientific age does accommodate God because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable.

---

Happy to take your premise apart. It's rather easy using your premise that God possesses no special powers.

God has no special power to bring love to humanity. It's a mere emotion that exists thru out humanity. You have no evidence - outside of scripture - that God is love.

See how easy that was?

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

The "scientific age"? Really? Americans tend toward the stupid and are clearly devolving intellectually. Absent the influence of Christianity, what comes next will be beyond our worst imagining.

---

Whether "Americans tend toward stupid" is immaterial to this Fact: The scientific age is here and superstition is dead.
Argue against this premise.

I will admit that Americans tend toward believing in superstition but sciene says it is dead.

---

Certainly. Quash will tell you that belief in God - and the belief that God is love - is itself superstition. But since you say that "the love commandment is provable," then by all means, go ahead and prove it.

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

Does God have a place in your scientific age?

---

With y'all yes: you keep putting him in the gaps .

---

With the word "y'all" I assume you mean Evangelicals and Fundamentalist. We, process theologians and philosophers, deny the supernatural but believe that yes, the scientific age does accommodate God because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable.
Alfred North Whitehead was both a physicist and a theologian and a Christian. When one views the scientific, physical world then one must ground their theology in science. My birth is simply a gift from the cosmos and the fact that I exist means that I am act of grace by that same cosmos. That understanding is not supernatural but science based. I live.
Yes, the scientific age does accommodate God as understood to be love because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable. God is love pure and simple. That is not scientifically based but existentially based.
As to my death it is not supernatural and Satan and hell but simply That I die in faith into love of God.

---

So, you can prove the existence of God because of his purported commandment to love in scripture?

That makes absolutely no sense.

---

Sire it makes sense. The letters of John are crystal clear. God is love What command to you as a Christian Is the most important??

---

John's letters are written to those who obey God's commands.

---

And to describe God
You might note how I John talks of those who not love their enemies I John 4 My dear friends, we must love each other. Love comes from God, and when we love each other, it shows we have been given new life. We are now God's children, and we know him. 8 God is love, and anyone who doesn't love others has never known him.

---

How does God impart the emotion of love to humanity. He has no special powers. Remember?

---

The whole concept of free will and temptation is being overlooked. Just because someone believes or even thinks they are doing God's will does not mean they are acting in a loving way. Good people can do evil things. Inherently good people can do evil things.

Accepting Jesus in your life as savior is not a Pass Go you are covered for every act that you do going forward, that person can still be very evil. The Crusades, the Reformation Wars, Indian Wars, Witch Hunts, KKK... All were Christian (both Catholic and Protestant) true believers that thought they were doing God's will and in the name of Jesus. As a Catholic, I accept that the Church has a horrid past when the "Missionary" flag is waved.

To say that acceptance of Jesus is a sign of love and goodness turns a blind eye to history.

RMF5630 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

Does God have a place in your scientific age?

---

With y'all yes: you keep putting him in the gaps .

---

With the word "y'all" I assume you mean Evangelicals and Fundamentalist. We, process theologians and philosophers, deny the supernatural but believe that yes, the scientific age does accommodate God because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable.
Alfred North Whitehead was both a physicist and a theologian and a Christian. When one views the scientific, physical world then one must ground their theology in science. My birth is simply a gift from the cosmos and the fact that I exist means that I am act of grace by that same cosmos. That understanding is not supernatural but science based. I live.
Yes, the scientific age does accommodate God as understood to be love because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable. God is love pure and simple. That is not scientifically based but existentially based.
As to my death it is not supernatural and Satan and hell but simply That I die in faith into love of God.

---

So, you can prove the existence of God because of his purported commandment to love in scripture?

That makes absolutely no sense.

---

Sire it makes sense. The letters of John are crystal clear. God is love What command to you as a Christian Is the most important??

---

John's letters are written to those who obey God's commands.

---

And to describe God
You might note how I John talks of those who not love their enemies I John 4 My dear friends, we must love each other. Love comes from God, and when we love each other, it shows we have been given new life. We are now God's children, and we know him. 8 God is love, and anyone who doesn't love others has never known him.

---

How does God impart the emotion of love to humanity. He has no special powers. Remember?

---

The whole concept of free will and temptation is being overlooked. Just because someone believes or even thinks they are doing God's will does not mean they are acting in a loving way. Good people can do evil things. Inherently good people can do evil things.

Accepting Jesus in your life as savior is not a Pass Go you are covered for every act that you do going forward, that person can still be very evil. The Crusades, the Reformation Wars, Indian Wars, Witch Hunts, KKK... All were Christian (both Catholic and Protestant) true believers that thought they were doing God's will and in the name of Jesus. As a Catholic, I accept that the Church has a horrid past when the "Missionary" flag is waved.

To say that acceptance of Jesus is a sign of love and goodness turns a blind eye to history.

---

When the days drew near for him to be taken up, he set his face to go to Jerusalem. And he sent messengers ahead of him, who went and entered a village of the Samaritans, to make preparations for him. But the people did not receive him, because his face was set toward Jerusalem. And they went on to another village. But he turned and rebuked them. And when his disciples James and John saw it, they said, "Lord, do you want us to tell fire to come down from heaven and consume them?"
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke.9.51,Luke.9.52,Luke.9.53,Luke.9.56,Luke.9.55,Luke.9.54&version=ESV

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

Does God have a place in your scientific age?

---

With y'all yes: you keep putting him in the gaps .

---

With the word "y'all" I assume you mean Evangelicals and Fundamentalist. We, process theologians and philosophers, deny the supernatural but believe that yes, the scientific age does accommodate God because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable.
Alfred North Whitehead was both a physicist and a theologian and a Christian. When one views the scientific, physical world then one must ground their theology in science. My birth is simply a gift from the cosmos and the fact that I exist means that I am act of grace by that same cosmos. That understanding is not supernatural but science based. I live.
Yes, the scientific age does accommodate God as understood to be love because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable. God is love pure and simple. That is not scientifically based but existentially based.
As to my death it is not supernatural and Satan and hell but simply That I die in faith into love of God.

---

So, you can prove the existence of God because of his purported commandment to love in scripture?

That makes absolutely no sense.

---

Sire it makes sense. The letters of John are crystal clear. God is love What command to you as a Christian Is the most important??

---

John's letters are written to those who obey God's commands.

---

And to describe God
You might note how I John talks of those who not love their enemies I John 4 My dear friends, we must love each other. Love comes from God, and when we love each other, it shows we have been given new life. We are now God's children, and we know him. 8 God is love, and anyone who doesn't love others has never known him.

---

How does God impart the emotion of love to humanity. He has no special powers. Remember?

---

The whole concept of free will and temptation is being overlooked. Just because someone believes or even thinks they are doing God's will does not mean they are acting in a loving way. Good people can do evil things. Inherently good people can do evil things.

Accepting Jesus in your life as savior is not a Pass Go you are covered for every act that you do going forward, that person can still be very evil. The Crusades, the Reformation Wars, Indian Wars, Witch Hunts, KKK... All were Christian (both Catholic and Protestant) true believers that thought they were doing God's will and in the name of Jesus. As a Catholic, I accept that the Church has a horrid past when the "Missionary" flag is waved.

To say that acceptance of Jesus is a sign of love and goodness turns a blind eye to history.

---

When the days drew near for him to be taken up, he set his face to go to Jerusalem. And he sent messengers ahead of him, who went and entered a village of the Samaritans, to make preparations for him. But the people did not receive him, because his face was set toward Jerusalem. And they went on to another village. But he turned and rebuked them. And when his disciples James and John saw it, they said, "Lord, do you want us to tell fire to come down from heaven and consume them?"
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke.9.51,Luke.9.52,Luke.9.53,Luke.9.56,Luke.9.55,Luke.9.54&version=ESV

---

Ok, I would say that it is God's place to reign fire, not man's. Jesus determines that a place should be smited, he will send an Angel down to blow his horn... Not send the Vatican, Lutheran Synod or Southern Baptist.Convention! We all have posts in our eyes, it would spoil our aim.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

Does God have a place in your scientific age?

---

With y'all yes: you keep putting him in the gaps .

---

With the word "y'all" I assume you mean Evangelicals and Fundamentalist. We, process theologians and philosophers, deny the supernatural but believe that yes, the scientific age does accommodate God because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable.
Alfred North Whitehead was both a physicist and a theologian and a Christian. When one views the scientific, physical world then one must ground their theology in science. My birth is simply a gift from the cosmos and the fact that I exist means that I am act of grace by that same cosmos. That understanding is not supernatural but science based. I live.
Yes, the scientific age does accommodate God as understood to be love because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable. God is love pure and simple. That is not scientifically based but existentially based.
As to my death it is not supernatural and Satan and hell but simply That I die in faith into love of God.

---

So, you can prove the existence of God because of his purported commandment to love in scripture?

That makes absolutely no sense.

---

Sire it makes sense. The letters of John are crystal clear. God is love What command to you as a Christian Is the most important??

---

John's letters are written to those who obey God's commands.

---

And to describe God
You might note how I John talks of those who not love their enemies I John 4 My dear friends, we must love each other. Love comes from God, and when we love each other, it shows we have been given new life. We are now God's children, and we know him. 8 God is love, and anyone who doesn't love others has never known him.

---

How does God impart the emotion of love to humanity. He has no special powers. Remember?

---

The whole concept of free will and temptation is being overlooked. Just because someone believes or even thinks they are doing God's will does not mean they are acting in a loving way. Good people can do evil things. Inherently good people can do evil things.

Accepting Jesus in your life as savior is not a Pass Go you are covered for every act that you do going forward, that person can still be very evil. The Crusades, the Reformation Wars, Indian Wars, Witch Hunts, KKK... All were Christian (both Catholic and Protestant) true believers that thought they were doing God's will and in the name of Jesus. As a Catholic, I accept that the Church has a horrid past when the "Missionary" flag is waved.

To say that acceptance of Jesus is a sign of love and goodness turns a blind eye to history.

---

When the days drew near for him to be taken up, he set his face to go to Jerusalem. And he sent messengers ahead of him, who went and entered a village of the Samaritans, to make preparations for him. But the people did not receive him, because his face was set toward Jerusalem. And they went on to another village. But he turned and rebuked them. And when his disciples James and John saw it, they said, "Lord, do you want us to tell fire to come down from heaven and consume them?"
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke.9.51,Luke.9.52,Luke.9.53,Luke.9.56,Luke.9.55,Luke.9.54&version=ESV

---

FYI, they have the last three verses reversed The correct order is: first, the disciples ask if fire from heaven should come down. Then, Jesus rebukes them, the disciples. Then they go to another town. It changes the meaning quite a bit, particularly who Jesus was rebuking.

RMF5630 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

Does God have a place in your scientific age?

---

With y'all yes: you keep putting him in the gaps .

---

With the word "y'all" I assume you mean Evangelicals and Fundamentalist. We, process theologians and philosophers, deny the supernatural but believe that yes, the scientific age does accommodate God because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable.
Alfred North Whitehead was both a physicist and a theologian and a Christian. When one views the scientific, physical world then one must ground their theology in science. My birth is simply a gift from the cosmos and the fact that I exist means that I am act of grace by that same cosmos. That understanding is not supernatural but science based. I live.
Yes, the scientific age does accommodate God as understood to be love because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable. God is love pure and simple. That is not scientifically based but existentially based.
As to my death it is not supernatural and Satan and hell but simply That I die in faith into love of God.

---

So, you can prove the existence of God because of his purported commandment to love in scripture?

That makes absolutely no sense.

---

Sire it makes sense. The letters of John are crystal clear. God is love What command to you as a Christian Is the most important??

---

John's letters are written to those who obey God's commands.

---

And to describe God
You might note how I John talks of those who not love their enemies I John 4 My dear friends, we must love each other. Love comes from God, and when we love each other, it shows we have been given new life. We are now God's children, and we know him. 8 God is love, and anyone who doesn't love others has never known him.

---

How does God impart the emotion of love to humanity. He has no special powers. Remember?

---

The whole concept of free will and temptation is being overlooked. Just because someone believes or even thinks they are doing God's will does not mean they are acting in a loving way. Good people can do evil things. Inherently good people can do evil things.

Accepting Jesus in your life as savior is not a Pass Go you are covered for every act that you do going forward, that person can still be very evil. The Crusades, the Reformation Wars, Indian Wars, Witch Hunts, KKK... All were Christian (both Catholic and Protestant) true believers that thought they were doing God's will and in the name of Jesus. As a Catholic, I accept that the Church has a horrid past when the "Missionary" flag is waved.

To say that acceptance of Jesus is a sign of love and goodness turns a blind eye to history.

---

Not sure whose point you are responding to. I was addressing Waco47, who despite believing God has no power, somehow believes God imparted to humanity the ability to love (which of course makes no sense if he has no power).

You seem to be making a different point - one for the most part I am in agreement with.

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

The "scientific age"? Really? Americans tend toward the stupid and are clearly devolving intellectually. Absent the influence of Christianity, what comes next will be beyond our worst imagining.

---

Whether "Americans tend toward stupid" is immaterial to this Fact: The scientific age is here and superstition is dead.
Argue against this premise.

I will admit that Americans tend toward believing in superstition but sciene says it is dead.

---

Certainly. Quash will tell you that belief in God - and the belief that God is love - is itself superstition. But since you say that "the love commandment is provable," then by all means, go ahead and prove it.

---

A good question that thus far he has been wholly unable to answer, despite ample opportunity.

Mothra said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

Does God have a place in your scientific age?

---

With y'all yes: you keep putting him in the gaps .

---

With the word "y'all" I assume you mean Evangelicals and Fundamentalist. We, process theologians and philosophers, deny the supernatural but believe that yes, the scientific age does accommodate God because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable.
Alfred North Whitehead was both a physicist and a theologian and a Christian. When one views the scientific, physical world then one must ground their theology in science. My birth is simply a gift from the cosmos and the fact that I exist means that I am act of grace by that same cosmos. That understanding is not supernatural but science based. I live.
Yes, the scientific age does accommodate God as understood to be love because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable. God is love pure and simple. That is not scientifically based but existentially based.
As to my death it is not supernatural and Satan and hell but simply That I die in faith into love of God.

---

So, you can prove the existence of God because of his purported commandment to love in scripture?

That makes absolutely no sense.

---

Sire it makes sense. The letters of John are crystal clear. God is love What command to you as a Christian Is the most important??

---

John's letters are written to those who obey God's commands.

---

And to describe God
You might note how I John talks of those who not love their enemies I John 4 My dear friends, we must love each other. Love comes from God, and when we love each other, it shows we have been given new life. We are now God's children, and we know him. 8 God is love, and anyone who doesn't love others has never known him.

---

How does God impart the emotion of love to humanity. He has no special powers. Remember?

---

The whole concept of free will and temptation is being overlooked. Just because someone believes or even thinks they are doing God's will does not mean they are acting in a loving way. Good people can do evil things. Inherently good people can do evil things.

Accepting Jesus in your life as savior is not a Pass Go you are covered for every act that you do going forward, that person can still be very evil. The Crusades, the Reformation Wars, Indian Wars, Witch Hunts, KKK... All were Christian (both Catholic and Protestant) true believers that thought they were doing God's will and in the name of Jesus. As a Catholic, I accept that the Church has a horrid past when the "Missionary" flag is waved.

To say that acceptance of Jesus is a sign of love and goodness turns a blind eye to history.

---

Not sure whose point you are responding to. I was addressing Waco47, who despite believing God has no power, somehow believes God imparted to humanity the ability to love (which of course makes no sense if he has no power).

You seem to be making a different point - one for the most part I am in agreement with.

---

Sorry, I have a tendency to react to last post, not necessarily disagreeing with you. Just adding to the conversation.

RMF5630 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

Does God have a place in your scientific age?

---

With y'all yes: you keep putting him in the gaps .

---

With the word "y'all" I assume you mean Evangelicals and Fundamentalist. We, process theologians and philosophers, deny the supernatural but believe that yes, the scientific age does accommodate God because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable.
Alfred North Whitehead was both a physicist and a theologian and a Christian. When one views the scientific, physical world then one must ground their theology in science. My birth is simply a gift from the cosmos and the fact that I exist means that I am act of grace by that same cosmos. That understanding is not supernatural but science based. I live.
Yes, the scientific age does accommodate God as understood to be love because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable. God is love pure and simple. That is not scientifically based but existentially based.
As to my death it is not supernatural and Satan and hell but simply That I die in faith into love of God.

---

So, you can prove the existence of God because of his purported commandment to love in scripture?

That makes absolutely no sense.

---

Sire it makes sense. The letters of John are crystal clear. God is love What command to you as a Christian Is the most important??

---

John's letters are written to those who obey God's commands.

---

And to describe God
You might note how I John talks of those who not love their enemies I John 4 My dear friends, we must love each other. Love comes from God, and when we love each other, it shows we have been given new life. We are now God's children, and we know him. 8 God is love, and anyone who doesn't love others has never known him.

---

How does God impart the emotion of love to humanity. He has no special powers. Remember?

---

The whole concept of free will and temptation is being overlooked. Just because someone believes or even thinks they are doing God's will does not mean they are acting in a loving way. Good people can do evil things. Inherently good people can do evil things.

Accepting Jesus in your life as savior is not a Pass Go you are covered for every act that you do going forward, that person can still be very evil. The Crusades, the Reformation Wars, Indian Wars, Witch Hunts, KKK... All were Christian (both Catholic and Protestant) true believers that thought they were doing God's will and in the name of Jesus. As a Catholic, I accept that the Church has a horrid past when the "Missionary" flag is waved.

To say that acceptance of Jesus is a sign of love and goodness turns a blind eye to history.

---

When the days drew near for him to be taken up, he set his face to go to Jerusalem. And he sent messengers ahead of him, who went and entered a village of the Samaritans, to make preparations for him. But the people did not receive him, because his face was set toward Jerusalem. And they went on to another village. But he turned and rebuked them. And when his disciples James and John saw it, they said, "Lord, do you want us to tell fire to come down from heaven and consume them?"
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke.9.51,Luke.9.52,Luke.9.53,Luke.9.56,Luke.9.55,Luke.9.54&version=ESV

---

Ok, I would say that it is God's place to reign fire, not man's. Jesus determines that a place should be smited, he will send an Angel down to blow his horn... Not send the Vatican, Lutheran Synod or Southern Baptist.Convention! We all have posts in our eyes, it would spoil our aim.

---

the passage I picked is in support of your statement. A following poster corrects the order of events which would have made it a bit more clear.

In addition to Christians sometime being in error, there are also those that claim to be Christian that are simply wolves in sheep's clothing ( probably for another thread)

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

Does God have a place in your scientific age?

---

With y'all yes: you keep putting him in the gaps .

---

With the word "y'all" I assume you mean Evangelicals and Fundamentalist. We, process theologians and philosophers, deny the supernatural but believe that yes, the scientific age does accommodate God because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable.
Alfred North Whitehead was both a physicist and a theologian and a Christian. When one views the scientific, physical world then one must ground their theology in science. My birth is simply a gift from the cosmos and the fact that I exist means that I am act of grace by that same cosmos. That understanding is not supernatural but science based. I live.
Yes, the scientific age does accommodate God as understood to be love because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable. God is love pure and simple. That is not scientifically based but existentially based.
As to my death it is not supernatural and Satan and hell but simply That I die in faith into love of God.

---

So, you can prove the existence of God because of his purported commandment to love in scripture?

That makes absolutely no sense.

---

Sire it makes sense. The letters of John are crystal clear. God is love What command to you as a Christian Is the most important??

---

John's letters are written to those who obey God's commands.

---

And to describe God
You might note how I John talks of those who not love their enemies I John 4 My dear friends, we must love each other. Love comes from God, and when we love each other, it shows we have been given new life. We are now God's children, and we know him. 8 God is love, and anyone who doesn't love others has never known him.

---

How does God impart the emotion of love to humanity. He has no special powers. Remember?

---

The whole concept of free will and temptation is being overlooked. Just because someone believes or even thinks they are doing God's will does not mean they are acting in a loving way. Good people can do evil things. Inherently good people can do evil things.

Accepting Jesus in your life as savior is not a Pass Go you are covered for every act that you do going forward, that person can still be very evil. The Crusades, the Reformation Wars, Indian Wars, Witch Hunts, KKK... All were Christian (both Catholic and Protestant) true believers that thought they were doing God's will and in the name of Jesus. As a Catholic, I accept that the Church has a horrid past when the "Missionary" flag is waved.

To say that acceptance of Jesus is a sign of love and goodness turns a blind eye to history.

---

When the days drew near for him to be taken up, he set his face to go to Jerusalem. And he sent messengers ahead of him, who went and entered a village of the Samaritans, to make preparations for him. But the people did not receive him, because his face was set toward Jerusalem. And they went on to another village. But he turned and rebuked them. And when his disciples James and John saw it, they said, "Lord, do you want us to tell fire to come down from heaven and consume them?"
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke.9.51,Luke.9.52,Luke.9.53,Luke.9.56,Luke.9.55,Luke.9.54&version=ESV

---

FYI, they have the last three verses reversed The correct order is: first, the disciples ask if fire from heaven should come down. Then, Jesus rebukes them, the disciples. Then they go to another town. It changes the meaning quite a bit, particularly who Jesus was rebuking.

---

see my response to RMF

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

Does God have a place in your scientific age?

---

With y'all yes: you keep putting him in the gaps .

---

With the word "y'all" I assume you mean Evangelicals and Fundamentalist. We, process theologians and philosophers, deny the supernatural but believe that yes, the scientific age does accommodate God because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable.
Alfred North Whitehead was both a physicist and a theologian and a Christian. When one views the scientific, physical world then one must ground their theology in science. My birth is simply a gift from the cosmos and the fact that I exist means that I am act of grace by that same cosmos. That understanding is not supernatural but science based. I live.
Yes, the scientific age does accommodate God as understood to be love because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable. God is love pure and simple. That is not scientifically based but existentially based.
As to my death it is not supernatural and Satan and hell but simply That I die in faith into love of God.

---

So, you can prove the existence of God because of his purported commandment to love in scripture?

That makes absolutely no sense.

---

Sire it makes sense. The letters of John are crystal clear. God is love What command to you as a Christian Is the most important??

---

John's letters are written to those who obey God's commands.

---

And to describe God
You might note how I John talks of those who not love their enemies I John 4 My dear friends, we must love each other. Love comes from God, and when we love each other, it shows we have been given new life. We are now God's children, and we know him. 8 God is love, and anyone who doesn't love others has never known him.

---

How does God impart the emotion of love to humanity. He has no special powers. Remember?

---

The whole concept of free will and temptation is being overlooked. Just because someone believes or even thinks they are doing God's will does not mean they are acting in a loving way. Good people can do evil things. Inherently good people can do evil things.

Accepting Jesus in your life as savior is not a Pass Go you are covered for every act that you do going forward, that person can still be very evil. The Crusades, the Reformation Wars, Indian Wars, Witch Hunts, KKK... All were Christian (both Catholic and Protestant) true believers that thought they were doing God's will and in the name of Jesus. As a Catholic, I accept that the Church has a horrid past when the "Missionary" flag is waved.

To say that acceptance of Jesus is a sign of love and goodness turns a blind eye to history.

---

When the days drew near for him to be taken up, he set his face to go to Jerusalem. And he sent messengers ahead of him, who went and entered a village of the Samaritans, to make preparations for him. But the people did not receive him, because his face was set toward Jerusalem. And they went on to another village. But he turned and rebuked them. And when his disciples James and John saw it, they said, "Lord, do you want us to tell fire to come down from heaven and consume them?"
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke.9.51,Luke.9.52,Luke.9.53,Luke.9.56,Luke.9.55,Luke.9.54&version=ESV

---

Ok, I would say that it is God's place to reign fire, not man's. Jesus determines that a place should be smited, he will send an Angel down to blow his horn... Not send the Vatican, Lutheran Synod or Southern Baptist.Convention! We all have posts in our eyes, it would spoil our aim.

---

the passage I picked is in support of your statement. A following poster corrects the order of events which would have made it a bit more clear.

In addition to Christians sometime being in error, there are also those that claim to be Christian that are simply wolves in sheep's clothing ( probably for another thread)

---

Thanks. Love the discussion. I have a tendency to post to the last post since I do this on phone a lot. Not a linear response. Sorry if it confuses. We are on the same page. I do believe there are wolves in sheep's clothing among Christians, just as there are Sheepdogs among Moslems. Not a denominational issue, a mankind issue...

He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

The "scientific age"? Really? Americans tend toward the stupid and are clearly devolving intellectually. Absent the influence of Christianity, what comes next will be beyond our worst imagining.

---

Whether "Americans tend toward stupid" is immaterial to this Fact: The scientific age is here and superstition is dead.
Argue against this premise.

I will admit that Americans tend toward believing in superstition but sciene says it is dead.

---

Two weeks to slow the spread

Wearing a mask saves lives

MRNA vaccines are safe and effective

The preacher must be posting from the pulpit this morning.

---

You didn't argue the premise

Waco1947 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

The "scientific age"? Really? Americans tend toward the stupid and are clearly devolving intellectually. Absent the influence of Christianity, what comes next will be beyond our worst imagining.

---

Whether "Americans tend toward stupid" is immaterial to this Fact: The scientific age is here and superstition is dead.
Argue against this premise.

I will admit that Americans tend toward believing in superstition but sciene says it is dead.

---

Two weeks to slow the spread

Wearing a mask saves lives

MRNA vaccines are safe and effective

The preacher must be posting from the pulpit this morning.

---

You didn't argue the premise

---

Yes, I did, Slo Roller. I sure did.

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

Is love provable? Do you love your wife? Of course you do. What more proof do you need?
Does Jesus love you? Of course he does. What more proof do you need?


The "scientific age"? Really? Americans tend toward the stupid and are clearly devolving intellectually. Absent the influence of Christianity, what comes next will be beyond our worst imagining.

---

Whether "Americans tend toward stupid" is immaterial to this Fact: The scientific age is here and superstition is dead.
Argue against this premise.

I will admit that Americans tend toward believing in superstition but sciene says it is dead.

---

Certainly. Quash will tell you that belief in God - and the belief that God is love - is itself superstition. But since you say that "the love commandment is provable," then by all means, go ahead and prove it.

---

I do you love your wife? Then there's your proof. Does Jesus love you? Then there's your proof. Love is provable in the ways that we trade each other.

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

Is love provable? Do you love your wife? Of course you do. What more proof do you need?
Does Jesus love you? Of course he does. What more proof do you need?


The "scientific age"? Really? Americans tend toward the stupid and are clearly devolving intellectually. Absent the influence of Christianity, what comes next will be beyond our worst imagining.

---

Whether "Americans tend toward stupid" is immaterial to this Fact: The scientific age is here and superstition is dead.
Argue against this premise.

I will admit that Americans tend toward believing in superstition but sciene says it is dead.

---

Certainly. Quash will tell you that belief in God - and the belief that God is love - is itself superstition. But since you say that "the love commandment is provable," then by all means, go ahead and prove it.

---

I do you love your wife? Then there's your proof. Does Jesus love you? Then there's your proof. Love is provable in the ways that we trade each other.

---

Actually love is purely subjective and cannot be scientifically proven or quantified in any way. Furthermore, if Jesus loves me, this is necessarily supernatural, since He died 2000 years ago, and thus His love cannot exist in the worldview which you have expressed. In fact, one might even say that believing that a long-dead person still loves you is superstitious.

---

Bingo.

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

Is love provable? Do you love your wife? Of course you do. What more proof do you need?
Does Jesus love you? Of course he does. What more proof do you need?


The "scientific age"? Really? Americans tend toward the stupid and are clearly devolving intellectually. Absent the influence of Christianity, what comes next will be beyond our worst imagining.

---

Whether "Americans tend toward stupid" is immaterial to this Fact: The scientific age is here and superstition is dead.
Argue against this premise.

I will admit that Americans tend toward believing in superstition but sciene says it is dead.

---

Certainly. Quash will tell you that belief in God - and the belief that God is love - is itself superstition. But since you say that "the love commandment is provable," then by all means, go ahead and prove it.

---

I do you love your wife? Then there's your proof. Does Jesus love you? Then there's your proof. Love is provable in the ways that we trade each other.

---

Because I love my spouse or think Jesus loves me proves that a guy dead and buried 2000 years ago loves me today? How is it even possible for a corpse to love me?

Once again, your beliefs make absolutely no logical sense whatsoever.

Many reasons for people leaving the church. My friends that grew up most religious in very strict households are the ones who now are quite happy to call themselves agnostic or atheist. For these people the turnoff was not being allowed to make decisions for themselves or ask questions when reading biblical texts. Iron fisted parents who ruled via the wrath of God and not His love.

Next is the surprising conservative bunch who have left the church. They seem to maybe over embrace the "rugged individualism" of America. They don't need help from a community. They can do everything on their own. They also seem overly concerned with politics. There's also the lefty folks who get into the new aged religions.

Then is a set who got ostracized from a church for supporting a gay family member, deciding a few bourbons on Saturday night wasn't a sin worse than what other members were committing behind closed doors, maybe the church's evangelicalism got a little to much for their taste or what they felt God wanted. At some point they felt their church left them or was being close minded.

Finally is a group that identifies as Christian but not a specific denomination and doesn't feel at home in the churches they've attended. They might work on Sundays to pay the bills, might not like a minister delivering a sermon they view as political in nature, fall asleep singing old hymns, but feel awkward throwing the hands up in a modern rock hymn session, etc.

Life isn't black and white and neither are many peoples decision to leave the church. I've seen comments saying parents have become soft on their kids with regards to church. I'd caution that's a tight line because as mentioned above my friends who grew up in the strictest of religious households tended to flee the furthest upon hitting 18 or whenever they achieved financial independence. Kids need some space to experiment, fail, and ask questions.

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

If you think Christianity is superstitious, wait till you see what comes next.

---

Lol, great response!

RMF5630 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

Does God have a place in your scientific age?

---

With y'all yes: you keep putting him in the gaps .

---

With the word "y'all" I assume you mean Evangelicals and Fundamentalist. We, process theologians and philosophers, deny the supernatural but believe that yes, the scientific age does accommodate God because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable.
Alfred North Whitehead was both a physicist and a theologian and a Christian. When one views the scientific, physical world then one must ground their theology in science. My birth is simply a gift from the cosmos and the fact that I exist means that I am act of grace by that same cosmos. That understanding is not supernatural but science based. I live.
Yes, the scientific age does accommodate God as understood to be love because the love commandment is not scientific but exists and is provable. God is love pure and simple. That is not scientifically based but existentially based.
As to my death it is not supernatural and Satan and hell but simply That I die in faith into love of God.

---

So, you can prove the existence of God because of his purported commandment to love in scripture?

That makes absolutely no sense.

---

Sire it makes sense. The letters of John are crystal clear. God is love What command to you as a Christian Is the most important??

---

John's letters are written to those who obey God's commands.

---

And to describe God
You might note how I John talks of those who not love their enemies I John 4 My dear friends, we must love each other. Love comes from God, and when we love each other, it shows we have been given new life. We are now God's children, and we know him. 8 God is love, and anyone who doesn't love others has never known him.

---

How does God impart the emotion of love to humanity. He has no special powers. Remember?

---

The whole concept of free will and temptation is being overlooked. Just because someone believes or even thinks they are doing God's will does not mean they are acting in a loving way. Good people can do evil things. Inherently good people can do evil things.

Accepting Jesus in your life as savior is not a Pass Go you are covered for every act that you do going forward, that person can still be very evil. The Crusades, the Reformation Wars, Indian Wars, Witch Hunts, KKK... All were Christian (both Catholic and Protestant) true believers that thought they were doing God's will and in the name of Jesus. As a Catholic, I accept that the Church has a horrid past when the "Missionary" flag is waved.

To say that acceptance of Jesus is a sign of love and goodness turns a blind eye to history.

---

The thing Jesus criticized the most was hypocrisy. All men sin, but it's when they pretend they don't that upset Jesus the most.

That hypocrisy has definitely lost some members of the church.

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

quash said:

---

The end of superstition can't come fast enough.

---

So true

---

He's talking about you as well, numnuts.

---

I agree with quash. The end of superstition cannot come fast enough. The scientific age is happening and secular people understand this new age but but many like you insist on superstition.

---

Is love provable? Do you love your wife? Of course you do. What more proof do you need?
Does Jesus love you? Of course he does. What more proof do you need?


The "scientific age"? Really? Americans tend toward the stupid and are clearly devolving intellectually. Absent the influence of Christianity, what comes next will be beyond our worst imagining.

---

Whether "Americans tend toward stupid" is immaterial to this Fact: The scientific age is here and superstition is dead.
Argue against this premise.

I will admit that Americans tend toward believing in superstition but sciene says it is dead.

---

Certainly. Quash will tell you that belief in God - and the belief that God is love - is itself superstition. But since you say that "the love commandment is provable," then by all means, go ahead and prove it.

---

I do you love your wife? Then there's your proof. Does Jesus love you? Then there's your proof. Love is provable in the ways that we trade each other.

---

Actually love is purely subjective and cannot be scientifically proven or quantified in any way. Furthermore, if Jesus loves me, this is necessarily supernatural, since He died 2000 years ago, and thus His love cannot exist in the worldview which you have expressed. In fact, one might even say that believing that a long-dead person still loves you is superstitious.

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I did not say love could scientifically prove. Love can be proven in scripture, the cross, and in the Holy Sprit. I am not making an argument for scientifically proven love but scripturally proven love.

boykin_spaniel said:

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Many reasons for people leaving the church. My friends that grew up most religious in very strict households are the ones who now are quite happy to call themselves agnostic or atheist. For these people the turnoff was not being allowed to make decisions for themselves or ask questions when reading biblical texts. Iron fisted parents who ruled via the wrath of God and not His love.

Next is the surprising conservative bunch who have left the church. They seem to maybe over embrace the "rugged individualism" of America. They don't need help from a community. They can do everything on their own. They also seem overly concerned with politics. There's also the lefty folks who get into the new aged religions.

Then is a set who got ostracized from a church for supporting a gay family member, deciding a few bourbons on Saturday night wasn't a sin worse than what other members were committing behind closed doors, maybe the church's evangelicalism got a little to much for their taste or what they felt God wanted. At some point they felt their church left them or was being close minded.

Finally is a group that identifies as Christian but not a specific denomination and doesn't feel at home in the churches they've attended. They might work on Sundays to pay the bills, might not like a minister delivering a sermon they view as political in nature, fall asleep singing old hymns, but feel awkward throwing the hands up in a modern rock hymn session, etc.

Life isn't black and white and neither are many peoples decision to leave the church. I've seen comments saying parents have become soft on their kids with regards to church. I'd caution that's a tight line because as mentioned above my friends who grew up in the strictest of religious households tended to flee the furthest upon hitting 18 or whenever they achieved financial independence. Kids need some space to experiment, fail, and ask questions. Asking questions as I do here sure gets one in trouble and I bump into rigid theology that countenances no discrepancy.

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Your observations are spot on.
The church will not die but it will diminish in numbers and influence because people ask about science and God. Non-denoms and Baptist, Evangelicals and hard line Catholics certainly do not want question. Dogma reigns with them.

Osodecentx said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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Share your comments.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/the-collapse-of-faith-in-america/

(ps i posted before I read all of it.)

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I wonder if this thread is misnamed. Instead of the collapse of the Christian faith, it should be named the collapse of religiosity or the collapse of fake Christianity.

True Christianity is difficult and demands much while religiosity and superstition are easy and is subject only to the whims of the adherent. There are many "churches" where the yoke is easy.

I do not dispute that "church" attendance in America is declining, but I see many places where God's message and His people flourish, not financially, but spiritually.

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Preach it Brother. This post is indeed the good news