This is so accurate pic.twitter.com/lpi38K0xrl

— NO CONTEXT HUMANS (@HumansNoContext) June 13, 2026

boognish_bear said:

---

We all gonna be out here performing miracles soon

Elon Musk says humans will soon have cybernetic chip implants that will enable "God-like powers" describing the chips as creating "Jesus-level miracles." pic.twitter.com/9scqiKr4n3

— Anonymous (@YourAnonOne) June 13, 2026

---

I like what Elon's companies make, but this is a little bit like...

Someone needs to warn Elon about the dangers of playing God. No matter how smart he is, how wealthy he becomes, or what amazing technologies he achieves he will still remain a man with real limits. He will die one day and not take any of his possessions with him. He's still nothing compare to God.

The proper response is humility which is difficult for us humans.

Amazing abundance for all! https://t.co/oxkeZBwkGk

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) June 20, 2026

A driver in a Tesla vehicle that was allegedly in self-driving mode crashed into a Texas house Friday night, killing a woman who was inside the home, investigators said. https://t.co/jnu5dRECiI pic.twitter.com/DA0KBOa1sB

— ABC News (@ABC) June 20, 2026

Doctors 25% more likely to miss a diagnosis on a patient within 3 months after Ai is implemented. The results indicate Ai has an immediate negative effect on professionals skillsets vs prolonged reliance.https://t.co/ciPB3DdR2J

— Roger (@rdd147) June 20, 2026

If this was not the original agreement with these companies I wonder how they will unwind it?

Governor Abbott says Texas data centers must begin supplying their own power pic.twitter.com/zxa99mcj3Y

— Dallas Texas TV (@DallasTexasTV) June 23, 2026

cowboycwr said:

---

whiterock said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

whiterock said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Maryland homeowners will pay an extra $1.6 billion on their electric bills over the next decade to subsidize grid costs to feed data centers, according to a state agency https://t.co/8O24hiRe3V

— Bloomberg (@business) May 7, 2026

This is the only portion of the article I can see that is not behind a paywall...

Maryland homeowners will pay an extra $1.6 billion on their electric bills over the next decade to subsidize grid costs to feed data centers, according to a state agency.

PJM Interconnection LLC, the largest US grid operator, is making Maryland customers cover the costs for transmission projects driven primarily by energy needs of data centers outside the state, Maryland's Office of People's Counsel alleged in a complaint to the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. Homeowners are effectively subsidizing data-center growth due to the way PJM allocates costs to build those projects, said the agency that represents the interests of Maryland's utility customers.

---

White rock says this is false. He won't provide a link but it is false.
Not false. Just a great example of spin to confuse simple minds. Everyone who hooks up to PJM will pay, residential AND commercial customers. But let's just do some per capita calculations. $1.6b over 10 years is $160m per year, or $1.3m per month. The monthly number is then divided among 4,794,800 people (population of MD), which works out to $0.26 per person per month.

At this point, the skeptic might respond "that 4,798,000 number includes everyone who lives in a household, not the number of households paying electric bills." Setting aside a few layers of logical and philosophical issues with that, the statement itself would be mathematically true. So we could instead divide the $1,33m/month expense by the number of electric meters in Maryland. Per the internet, there are 2m "smart meters" in Maryland. That would seem to be a low-end number, given that not every electrical meter in the state is a smart meter, but let's recalculate using 2m rather than 4.7m. Actual charge, per meter, would work out to $0.67 per meter.

Is that the kind of dancing on the head of the pin you expect will win arguments? $0.;067 cents per meter per month to fund infrastructure improvements that will serve everyone in the state, data center and grandma alike. Really? This is the outrage you are peddling? This is the threat to democracy you seek to stop dead in its tracks?

Just like he won't prove they create jobs, despite people posting links showing they crest no jobs or very, very few.
LOL. look at the chaotic argument you are making. You are saying DC create no jobs (because they employ fewer people per dollar of investment than many other industries). The reality is, even a low level of job creation is still job creation. a $10b data center that creates 600 jobs is, by definition, creating 600 jobs.

Same for the water claims.
No claims. Just facts. "a million" is a big number. certainly it's a lot of money to the average person. but "a million" is not a terribly big number when you're talking about gallons of water in the ecosystem. The Brazos River, per the BRA, pushes 1.8b gallons of water past McLane Stadium every day. That's enough water to run 1000 data centers. Now, I'm not arguing for 1000 data centers. Not 100 data centers. But a dozen would be sustainable.....use less than 10% of the total water in the Brazos (which is effectively untapped in our county.....only 2 small cities use it as a water source). The benefit would be approximately 6x the current tax base (resulting in massive property tax cuts for county & municipal residents) and roughly 6,000 jobs (making them, collectively, the largest employer in McLennan County). Yet we actually have numbskulls making the argument that rivers are running dry, that frogs falling from the sky, that (insert biblical plague here), and that DC create no jobs and pay no taxes.

Or the noise claims.
The code for "Data Center Alley" (the 500 data centers concentrated in No. Va.) in Loudoun county VA defines DCs as commercial office space, a zoning which allows for 65 decibels at property line.
https://online.encodeplus.com/regs/loudouncounty-va-crosswalk/doc-viewer.aspx#secid--1

For comparison, 65 decibels is the noise level of a standard electric tooth brush. . turn on the electric toothbrush. Set it on the street curb at your home. Go sit in the back yard. Please come back and tell us what you heard.

Now, are there DCs noisier than 65db? Yes. Some. Air-cooled systems are noisier than water cooled systems always/everywhere (and areas short on water tend to go with air-cooling designs). Older systems are noisier than new systems (water and air cooled alike). But we've been building DCs, by the thousands for the last 20 years. Things have improved over time. We can now make DCs whisper-quiet. We just need to have the proper codes in place. Requires more capital investment by the DC, but they are not pushing back at all. The profit margins are strong. And the industries that make the sound-muffling equipment very much appreciate the increase in their business (and all the jobs created thereby).

Or the tax base claims.
What is to contest here? DCs pay enormous amounts of taxes. Here's a fact sheet by the Loudoun Co. Economic Development Corp.
https://23372029.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/23372029/Website%20Files/Data%20Center%20Fact%20Sheet%20One%20Pager%205.1.25.pdf

I mean, look at the nonsense you are suggesting here. A $10b DC shows up. Creates no jobs (even though it will directly employ about 500 people). Creates no tax base (even though DCs have transformed local government budgets all over the country). Creates no benefit at all (as though DCs build themselves. metal buildings and electrical back up generators and BESS units and miles & miles of wires & cables & pipes and highly valuable hyper-speed computing equipment, etc....all springing like weeds out of the ground without any jobs created in any of those industries).

Everyone else provides links. He only calls us backwards and against change but won't provide links to back up his claims.
You are, on this particular issue, being absolutely ******ed. Making incredibly dumb, easily disprovable claims, not the least of which is that 1000 $10b data centers create no activity or taxes at all.

---

Don't work so hard to be globally obtuse. EIGHT of the top 10 companies on the S&P 500 are tech companies. They need DCs. They will get their DCs. If we don't build the DCs for them here, then they will get them built in Europe or Latin America or Asia. China will take every one of them, if allowed. Why on earth would we let all those jobs and tax base and technology go elsewhere?

To expand on that, it's not like the top 8 companies on the S&P 500 are the only companies needing DCs. EVERY company needs DCs. So does EVERY person in this country. You have at least one cell phone within arms reach right now. Possibly more. So does your spouse. So do your kids. You have at least 1 computer at home, and one at work. So does your spouse. So do your kids. Probably have a smart TV in view right now, and a couple others elsewhere in your home. Count up the number of appliances in your home. The instruction manuals and warranty sign up for any replacements you buy will be available to you on the internet. Might even be a smart appliance with constant connection to the internet. My car is a dedicated hotspot. So is my wife's car. Pull up the wifi connection page on your phone next time you're driving down the interstate. Watch all the other networkable cars pop up connection requests as you go down the highway. EVERYTHING is online. Open up your wallet. Count up the number of credit cards you have. Every time you swipe one......where do you think the payment actually happens? Did you know you have scannable bar codes on your Tx Drivers License/? What do you think happens when you scan that code? I got a passport and an international drivers license last month. Online. Desktop and iPhone camera coordinated via the internet (via home wifi) to get the forms filled out and pictures taken & uploaded. The friggin' $250 wall a/c in the building next to my trailer at our hunting camp 45mi from the nearest grocery store offers to link up with me every time I fire up my iPhone hotspot to use my computer in camp. Oh. We are also switching from Dish to Starlink next season so we can have better wifi while we're watching a football game at lunchtime. All of that viewing pleasure occurs on line. EVERYTHING. is. on. line. In a Data Center, somewhere.

Don't be a Luddite. Look at the world around you. Understand what's happening. More and more of our lives is moving on line. We cannot put that genie back in the bottle. We are doing to have to manage it well. And to do that will require....yes....more data centers. This is good. DCs create a LOT of tax base. And they do create a lot of jobs, unless you think all those computers inside and all those wires inside and all of the concrete and steel and lights and fire suppression systems and asphalt parking lots outside and fences and gates and contractor trucks coming in to mow grounds or replace sensitive equipment are all going to happen spontaneously on their own while somehow not generating any economic activity at all, any tax revenue at all, any jobs at all, etc.....



(don't double down on stupid.)

---

Yawn.

Lots of blabber by you but no links to prove anything. Just a few links that look at a few specific dcs and say everything is good.

But as usual you will not directly contradict a single post in this thread.

I'm done with you and will not reply to another post of your until you post links showing information to back up ALL of your claims and refutes ALL of the claims in this thread.

No links. You will be ignored as you have provided no facts.

---

i did provide links to show your allegations were hogwash. You ignored them.

Google up the building codes for Loudoun County, Virgina aka "Data Center Alley." There are over 160 data centers there. All of them under a code allowing no more than 65db of noise.

You are not interested in facts. You just want to purvey Chinese propaganda that Data Centers are evil.

---

Chinese propaganda???? Lol. That is a good one.

You have provided no evidence. You provide one specific example and somehow act like it applies to everywhere and all DCs.

And it does not.

Then you go absent for weeks and ignore tons of posts in this thread but only respond to the one you want to.

I am done arguing with you. But then again it was never an argument. You just said the same bullet points again and again while ignoring posts that prove you wrong, ignoring links with facts and providing zero evidence of your own.

Provide links or you will get no further responses from me.

Provide links.

---

I've been busy on a lot of things, to include work + DC projects heating up + a 12-day trip to Europe to see my daughter get her 4th MSM oak leaf cluster at her change of command ceremony. DC stuff included meetings with three different engineering staffs, hydrologists at BRA, a couple of planners from Wall Street firms on infrastructure needs, etc..... Had a fascinating meeting with a guy from Endeavour. Did you know they have a gas generation plant that has noise rating of 70db at 6 feet outside the building? (70db is the sound of a car engine at idle). Did you know they have a cooling system that actually generates more water than it uses? (those DCs you see in desert areas are using systems like that). Thrilling to see the lungs & heart of a free market economy doing what they are supposed to do - supply chain constraints forcing innovation that benefits everyone.
(Go get your own link on Endeavour. Google is your friend).

On July 10th, I'm going to Abilene. The ERCOT Chairman (a personal friend) invited me to join a group he's taking to tour the Stargate facility in Abilene (to see DC stuff) and meet with the Taylor Co Judge (on impacts to county/municipal budgets).

Meanwhile, you will continue to educate yourself by reading Roy Singham-produced propaganda on how Data Centers are the modern evil which must be exterminated from planet Earth. It's got to be true, you know. it's on Facebook! I can only hope to reach your level of understanding.

Everything you say is true. But at the same time, the local government HAS to enforce the development agreement to get it. Too often, they don't.

Also, your 70 dcb came about because of pushback. They build to the lowest cost and try their best to get out of doing extra. If someone doesn't force the issue through Land Development Codes, Developers Agreements, and impact analysis this stuff does not occur. Noise is a big win and they should bugle it for their other developments, hell they paid for it get value. I used to do this on traffic for both sides, if no one forces the issue private sector will not do it, it is not in their nature. Not their fault or bad, just a reality.

Local Planning and Econ Deve set the standard for the community and the local permitting and codes make sure it happens. Tax base increases, more jobs... Everything functioning like it should. It is a balance, what Engineers and Environmentalist don't get is that the goal is balance. You can't kill the project!

seeming like there is a lot of 'zeno's paradox' going on.........

- el UF

dis-gweese.

{ eating triple chocolate myo-fin }

D!

Go Bears!!

whiterock said:

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cowboycwr said:

---

whiterock said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

whiterock said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Maryland homeowners will pay an extra $1.6 billion on their electric bills over the next decade to subsidize grid costs to feed data centers, according to a state agency https://t.co/8O24hiRe3V

— Bloomberg (@business) May 7, 2026

This is the only portion of the article I can see that is not behind a paywall...

Maryland homeowners will pay an extra $1.6 billion on their electric bills over the next decade to subsidize grid costs to feed data centers, according to a state agency.

PJM Interconnection LLC, the largest US grid operator, is making Maryland customers cover the costs for transmission projects driven primarily by energy needs of data centers outside the state, Maryland's Office of People's Counsel alleged in a complaint to the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. Homeowners are effectively subsidizing data-center growth due to the way PJM allocates costs to build those projects, said the agency that represents the interests of Maryland's utility customers.

---

White rock says this is false. He won't provide a link but it is false.
Not false. Just a great example of spin to confuse simple minds. Everyone who hooks up to PJM will pay, residential AND commercial customers. But let's just do some per capita calculations. $1.6b over 10 years is $160m per year, or $1.3m per month. The monthly number is then divided among 4,794,800 people (population of MD), which works out to $0.26 per person per month.

At this point, the skeptic might respond "that 4,798,000 number includes everyone who lives in a household, not the number of households paying electric bills." Setting aside a few layers of logical and philosophical issues with that, the statement itself would be mathematically true. So we could instead divide the $1,33m/month expense by the number of electric meters in Maryland. Per the internet, there are 2m "smart meters" in Maryland. That would seem to be a low-end number, given that not every electrical meter in the state is a smart meter, but let's recalculate using 2m rather than 4.7m. Actual charge, per meter, would work out to $0.67 per meter.

Is that the kind of dancing on the head of the pin you expect will win arguments? $0.;067 cents per meter per month to fund infrastructure improvements that will serve everyone in the state, data center and grandma alike. Really? This is the outrage you are peddling? This is the threat to democracy you seek to stop dead in its tracks?

Just like he won't prove they create jobs, despite people posting links showing they crest no jobs or very, very few.
LOL. look at the chaotic argument you are making. You are saying DC create no jobs (because they employ fewer people per dollar of investment than many other industries). The reality is, even a low level of job creation is still job creation. a $10b data center that creates 600 jobs is, by definition, creating 600 jobs.

Same for the water claims.
No claims. Just facts. "a million" is a big number. certainly it's a lot of money to the average person. but "a million" is not a terribly big number when you're talking about gallons of water in the ecosystem. The Brazos River, per the BRA, pushes 1.8b gallons of water past McLane Stadium every day. That's enough water to run 1000 data centers. Now, I'm not arguing for 1000 data centers. Not 100 data centers. But a dozen would be sustainable.....use less than 10% of the total water in the Brazos (which is effectively untapped in our county.....only 2 small cities use it as a water source). The benefit would be approximately 6x the current tax base (resulting in massive property tax cuts for county & municipal residents) and roughly 6,000 jobs (making them, collectively, the largest employer in McLennan County). Yet we actually have numbskulls making the argument that rivers are running dry, that frogs falling from the sky, that (insert biblical plague here), and that DC create no jobs and pay no taxes.

Or the noise claims.
The code for "Data Center Alley" (the 500 data centers concentrated in No. Va.) in Loudoun county VA defines DCs as commercial office space, a zoning which allows for 65 decibels at property line.
https://online.encodeplus.com/regs/loudouncounty-va-crosswalk/doc-viewer.aspx#secid--1

For comparison, 65 decibels is the noise level of a standard electric tooth brush. . turn on the electric toothbrush. Set it on the street curb at your home. Go sit in the back yard. Please come back and tell us what you heard.

Now, are there DCs noisier than 65db? Yes. Some. Air-cooled systems are noisier than water cooled systems always/everywhere (and areas short on water tend to go with air-cooling designs). Older systems are noisier than new systems (water and air cooled alike). But we've been building DCs, by the thousands for the last 20 years. Things have improved over time. We can now make DCs whisper-quiet. We just need to have the proper codes in place. Requires more capital investment by the DC, but they are not pushing back at all. The profit margins are strong. And the industries that make the sound-muffling equipment very much appreciate the increase in their business (and all the jobs created thereby).

Or the tax base claims.
What is to contest here? DCs pay enormous amounts of taxes. Here's a fact sheet by the Loudoun Co. Economic Development Corp.
https://23372029.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/23372029/Website%20Files/Data%20Center%20Fact%20Sheet%20One%20Pager%205.1.25.pdf

I mean, look at the nonsense you are suggesting here. A $10b DC shows up. Creates no jobs (even though it will directly employ about 500 people). Creates no tax base (even though DCs have transformed local government budgets all over the country). Creates no benefit at all (as though DCs build themselves. metal buildings and electrical back up generators and BESS units and miles & miles of wires & cables & pipes and highly valuable hyper-speed computing equipment, etc....all springing like weeds out of the ground without any jobs created in any of those industries).

Everyone else provides links. He only calls us backwards and against change but won't provide links to back up his claims.
You are, on this particular issue, being absolutely ******ed. Making incredibly dumb, easily disprovable claims, not the least of which is that 1000 $10b data centers create no activity or taxes at all.

---

Don't work so hard to be globally obtuse. EIGHT of the top 10 companies on the S&P 500 are tech companies. They need DCs. They will get their DCs. If we don't build the DCs for them here, then they will get them built in Europe or Latin America or Asia. China will take every one of them, if allowed. Why on earth would we let all those jobs and tax base and technology go elsewhere?

To expand on that, it's not like the top 8 companies on the S&P 500 are the only companies needing DCs. EVERY company needs DCs. So does EVERY person in this country. You have at least one cell phone within arms reach right now. Possibly more. So does your spouse. So do your kids. You have at least 1 computer at home, and one at work. So does your spouse. So do your kids. Probably have a smart TV in view right now, and a couple others elsewhere in your home. Count up the number of appliances in your home. The instruction manuals and warranty sign up for any replacements you buy will be available to you on the internet. Might even be a smart appliance with constant connection to the internet. My car is a dedicated hotspot. So is my wife's car. Pull up the wifi connection page on your phone next time you're driving down the interstate. Watch all the other networkable cars pop up connection requests as you go down the highway. EVERYTHING is online. Open up your wallet. Count up the number of credit cards you have. Every time you swipe one......where do you think the payment actually happens? Did you know you have scannable bar codes on your Tx Drivers License/? What do you think happens when you scan that code? I got a passport and an international drivers license last month. Online. Desktop and iPhone camera coordinated via the internet (via home wifi) to get the forms filled out and pictures taken & uploaded. The friggin' $250 wall a/c in the building next to my trailer at our hunting camp 45mi from the nearest grocery store offers to link up with me every time I fire up my iPhone hotspot to use my computer in camp. Oh. We are also switching from Dish to Starlink next season so we can have better wifi while we're watching a football game at lunchtime. All of that viewing pleasure occurs on line. EVERYTHING. is. on. line. In a Data Center, somewhere.

Don't be a Luddite. Look at the world around you. Understand what's happening. More and more of our lives is moving on line. We cannot put that genie back in the bottle. We are doing to have to manage it well. And to do that will require....yes....more data centers. This is good. DCs create a LOT of tax base. And they do create a lot of jobs, unless you think all those computers inside and all those wires inside and all of the concrete and steel and lights and fire suppression systems and asphalt parking lots outside and fences and gates and contractor trucks coming in to mow grounds or replace sensitive equipment are all going to happen spontaneously on their own while somehow not generating any economic activity at all, any tax revenue at all, any jobs at all, etc.....



(don't double down on stupid.)

---

Yawn.

Lots of blabber by you but no links to prove anything. Just a few links that look at a few specific dcs and say everything is good.

But as usual you will not directly contradict a single post in this thread.

I'm done with you and will not reply to another post of your until you post links showing information to back up ALL of your claims and refutes ALL of the claims in this thread.

No links. You will be ignored as you have provided no facts.

---

i did provide links to show your allegations were hogwash. You ignored them.

Google up the building codes for Loudoun County, Virgina aka "Data Center Alley." There are over 160 data centers there. All of them under a code allowing no more than 65db of noise.

You are not interested in facts. You just want to purvey Chinese propaganda that Data Centers are evil.

---

Chinese propaganda???? Lol. That is a good one.

You have provided no evidence. You provide one specific example and somehow act like it applies to everywhere and all DCs.

And it does not.

Then you go absent for weeks and ignore tons of posts in this thread but only respond to the one you want to.

I am done arguing with you. But then again it was never an argument. You just said the same bullet points again and again while ignoring posts that prove you wrong, ignoring links with facts and providing zero evidence of your own.

Provide links or you will get no further responses from me.

Provide links.

---

I've been busy on a lot of things, to include work + DC projects heating up + a 12-day trip to Europe to see my daughter get her 4th MSM oak leaf cluster at her change of command ceremony. DC stuff included meetings with three different engineering staffs, hydrologists at BRA, a couple of planners from Wall Street firms on infrastructure needs, etc..... Had a fascinating meeting with a guy from Endeavour. Did you know they have a gas generation plant that has noise rating of 70db at 6 feet outside the building? (70db is the sound of a car engine at idle). Did you know they have a cooling system that actually generates more water than it uses? (those DCs you see in desert areas are using systems like that). Thrilling to see the lungs & heart of a free market economy doing what they are supposed to do - supply chain constraints forcing innovation that benefits everyone.
(Go get your own link on Endeavour. Google is your friend).

On July 10th, I'm going to Abilene. The ERCOT Chairman (a personal friend) invited me to join a group he's taking to tour the Stargate facility in Abilene (to see DC stuff) and meet with the Taylor Co Judge (on impacts to county/municipal budgets).

Meanwhile, you will continue to educate yourself by reading Roy Singham-produced propaganda on how Data Centers are the modern evil which must be exterminated from planet Earth. It's got to be true, you know. it's on Facebook! I can only hope to reach your level of understanding.

---

And still no links and still ignoring all the other posts in this thread proving you wrong.

Gov. Greg Abbott proposed a ban on rural Texas AI data centers and called to eliminate their tax breaks, marking a shift from his prior support as residents increasingly oppose the facilities over water, electricity, and noise concerns. https://t.co/z7vEf1BPh5

— FOX 4 NEWS (@FOX4) July 3, 2026

Robot dogs are evolving. They are firing bullets with minimal recoil. I don't feel good about this. pic.twitter.com/E8MxL1gi3E

— Fifty Shades of Whey (@davenewworld_2) July 4, 2026

boognish_bear said:

---

Robot dogs are evolving. They are firing bullets with minimal recoil. I don't feel good about this. pic.twitter.com/E8MxL1gi3E

— Fifty Shades of Whey (@davenewworld_2) July 4, 2026

---

I mean, I know some people really don't like cats, but this seems extreme ...

william said:

---

seeming like there is a lot of 'zeno's paradox' going on.........

- el UF

dis-gweese.

{ eating triple chocolate myo-fin }

D!

Go Bears!!

---

The post modernist intersectionality which has seized the Democrat Party is a gigantic layer cake of swiss rolls of zeno's paradoxes........

🔥🚨LATEST: Canadian engineer John Tse is going viral after revealing his umbrella that follows him around as if he is in a futuristic movie. Tse created a fully autonomous umbrella that will assist people that need both of their hands while providing cover. pic.twitter.com/Bs0FfTf718

— Dom Lucre | Breaker of Narratives (@dom_lucre) July 5, 2026

The CEO of the biggest electricity company in the US is warning that blackouts could hit next year, as AI and data centers drive up electricity demand and strain the grid.

Exelon's CEO Calvin Butler told the Financial Times that Americans could “absolutely” lose power as soon as…

— More Perfect Union (@MorePerfectUS) July 7, 2026

Tucker Carlson sat down with Sam Altman and told him to his face that he is building a religion & replacing God with AI.

Altman did not disagree:

This will completely change how you think about the technology you use every single day:

1. Carlson's definition of a religion was… pic.twitter.com/Zlx5wLgMvi

— Brad (@BradleyKellard) July 7, 2026

A data center fight in Granbury has reached City Hall — and the courts https://t.co/XYfb4ZUT1H

— WFAA (@wfaa) July 8, 2026

FLBear5630 said:

---

Everything you say is true. But at the same time, the local government HAS to enforce the development agreement to get it. Too often, they don't.

Also, your 70 dcb came about because of pushback. They build to the lowest cost and try their best to get out of doing extra. If someone doesn't force the issue through Land Development Codes, Developers Agreements, and impact analysis this stuff does not occur. Noise is a big win and they should bugle it for their other developments, hell they paid for it get value. I used to do this on traffic for both sides, if no one forces the issue private sector will not do it, it is not in their nature. Not their fault or bad, just a reality.

Local Planning and Econ Deve set the standard for the community and the local permitting and codes make sure it happens. Tax base increases, more jobs... Everything functioning like it should. It is a balance, what Engineers and Environmentalist don't get is that the goal is balance. You can't kill the project!

---

Data Centers were loud, overused power and water resources before Ai fear became a "public concern". We're moving to scale now, and the market will eventually solve power use and cooling problems. It's a cost and efficiency need regardless of whether they even contemplate public good.

cowboycwr said:

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whiterock said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

whiterock said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

whiterock said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Maryland homeowners will pay an extra $1.6 billion on their electric bills over the next decade to subsidize grid costs to feed data centers, according to a state agency https://t.co/8O24hiRe3V

— Bloomberg (@business) May 7, 2026

This is the only portion of the article I can see that is not behind a paywall...

Maryland homeowners will pay an extra $1.6 billion on their electric bills over the next decade to subsidize grid costs to feed data centers, according to a state agency.

PJM Interconnection LLC, the largest US grid operator, is making Maryland customers cover the costs for transmission projects driven primarily by energy needs of data centers outside the state, Maryland's Office of People's Counsel alleged in a complaint to the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. Homeowners are effectively subsidizing data-center growth due to the way PJM allocates costs to build those projects, said the agency that represents the interests of Maryland's utility customers.

---

White rock says this is false. He won't provide a link but it is false.
Not false. Just a great example of spin to confuse simple minds. Everyone who hooks up to PJM will pay, residential AND commercial customers. But let's just do some per capita calculations. $1.6b over 10 years is $160m per year, or $1.3m per month. The monthly number is then divided among 4,794,800 people (population of MD), which works out to $0.26 per person per month.

At this point, the skeptic might respond "that 4,798,000 number includes everyone who lives in a household, not the number of households paying electric bills." Setting aside a few layers of logical and philosophical issues with that, the statement itself would be mathematically true. So we could instead divide the $1,33m/month expense by the number of electric meters in Maryland. Per the internet, there are 2m "smart meters" in Maryland. That would seem to be a low-end number, given that not every electrical meter in the state is a smart meter, but let's recalculate using 2m rather than 4.7m. Actual charge, per meter, would work out to $0.67 per meter.

Is that the kind of dancing on the head of the pin you expect will win arguments? $0.;067 cents per meter per month to fund infrastructure improvements that will serve everyone in the state, data center and grandma alike. Really? This is the outrage you are peddling? This is the threat to democracy you seek to stop dead in its tracks?

Just like he won't prove they create jobs, despite people posting links showing they crest no jobs or very, very few.
LOL. look at the chaotic argument you are making. You are saying DC create no jobs (because they employ fewer people per dollar of investment than many other industries). The reality is, even a low level of job creation is still job creation. a $10b data center that creates 600 jobs is, by definition, creating 600 jobs.

Same for the water claims.
No claims. Just facts. "a million" is a big number. certainly it's a lot of money to the average person. but "a million" is not a terribly big number when you're talking about gallons of water in the ecosystem. The Brazos River, per the BRA, pushes 1.8b gallons of water past McLane Stadium every day. That's enough water to run 1000 data centers. Now, I'm not arguing for 1000 data centers. Not 100 data centers. But a dozen would be sustainable.....use less than 10% of the total water in the Brazos (which is effectively untapped in our county.....only 2 small cities use it as a water source). The benefit would be approximately 6x the current tax base (resulting in massive property tax cuts for county & municipal residents) and roughly 6,000 jobs (making them, collectively, the largest employer in McLennan County). Yet we actually have numbskulls making the argument that rivers are running dry, that frogs falling from the sky, that (insert biblical plague here), and that DC create no jobs and pay no taxes.

Or the noise claims.
The code for "Data Center Alley" (the 500 data centers concentrated in No. Va.) in Loudoun county VA defines DCs as commercial office space, a zoning which allows for 65 decibels at property line.
https://online.encodeplus.com/regs/loudouncounty-va-crosswalk/doc-viewer.aspx#secid--1

For comparison, 65 decibels is the noise level of a standard electric tooth brush. . turn on the electric toothbrush. Set it on the street curb at your home. Go sit in the back yard. Please come back and tell us what you heard.

Now, are there DCs noisier than 65db? Yes. Some. Air-cooled systems are noisier than water cooled systems always/everywhere (and areas short on water tend to go with air-cooling designs). Older systems are noisier than new systems (water and air cooled alike). But we've been building DCs, by the thousands for the last 20 years. Things have improved over time. We can now make DCs whisper-quiet. We just need to have the proper codes in place. Requires more capital investment by the DC, but they are not pushing back at all. The profit margins are strong. And the industries that make the sound-muffling equipment very much appreciate the increase in their business (and all the jobs created thereby).

Or the tax base claims.
What is to contest here? DCs pay enormous amounts of taxes. Here's a fact sheet by the Loudoun Co. Economic Development Corp.
https://23372029.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/23372029/Website%20Files/Data%20Center%20Fact%20Sheet%20One%20Pager%205.1.25.pdf

I mean, look at the nonsense you are suggesting here. A $10b DC shows up. Creates no jobs (even though it will directly employ about 500 people). Creates no tax base (even though DCs have transformed local government budgets all over the country). Creates no benefit at all (as though DCs build themselves. metal buildings and electrical back up generators and BESS units and miles & miles of wires & cables & pipes and highly valuable hyper-speed computing equipment, etc....all springing like weeds out of the ground without any jobs created in any of those industries).

Everyone else provides links. He only calls us backwards and against change but won't provide links to back up his claims.
You are, on this particular issue, being absolutely ******ed. Making incredibly dumb, easily disprovable claims, not the least of which is that 1000 $10b data centers create no activity or taxes at all.

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Don't work so hard to be globally obtuse. EIGHT of the top 10 companies on the S&P 500 are tech companies. They need DCs. They will get their DCs. If we don't build the DCs for them here, then they will get them built in Europe or Latin America or Asia. China will take every one of them, if allowed. Why on earth would we let all those jobs and tax base and technology go elsewhere?

To expand on that, it's not like the top 8 companies on the S&P 500 are the only companies needing DCs. EVERY company needs DCs. So does EVERY person in this country. You have at least one cell phone within arms reach right now. Possibly more. So does your spouse. So do your kids. You have at least 1 computer at home, and one at work. So does your spouse. So do your kids. Probably have a smart TV in view right now, and a couple others elsewhere in your home. Count up the number of appliances in your home. The instruction manuals and warranty sign up for any replacements you buy will be available to you on the internet. Might even be a smart appliance with constant connection to the internet. My car is a dedicated hotspot. So is my wife's car. Pull up the wifi connection page on your phone next time you're driving down the interstate. Watch all the other networkable cars pop up connection requests as you go down the highway. EVERYTHING is online. Open up your wallet. Count up the number of credit cards you have. Every time you swipe one......where do you think the payment actually happens? Did you know you have scannable bar codes on your Tx Drivers License/? What do you think happens when you scan that code? I got a passport and an international drivers license last month. Online. Desktop and iPhone camera coordinated via the internet (via home wifi) to get the forms filled out and pictures taken & uploaded. The friggin' $250 wall a/c in the building next to my trailer at our hunting camp 45mi from the nearest grocery store offers to link up with me every time I fire up my iPhone hotspot to use my computer in camp. Oh. We are also switching from Dish to Starlink next season so we can have better wifi while we're watching a football game at lunchtime. All of that viewing pleasure occurs on line. EVERYTHING. is. on. line. In a Data Center, somewhere.

Don't be a Luddite. Look at the world around you. Understand what's happening. More and more of our lives is moving on line. We cannot put that genie back in the bottle. We are doing to have to manage it well. And to do that will require....yes....more data centers. This is good. DCs create a LOT of tax base. And they do create a lot of jobs, unless you think all those computers inside and all those wires inside and all of the concrete and steel and lights and fire suppression systems and asphalt parking lots outside and fences and gates and contractor trucks coming in to mow grounds or replace sensitive equipment are all going to happen spontaneously on their own while somehow not generating any economic activity at all, any tax revenue at all, any jobs at all, etc.....



(don't double down on stupid.)

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Yawn.

Lots of blabber by you but no links to prove anything. Just a few links that look at a few specific dcs and say everything is good.

But as usual you will not directly contradict a single post in this thread.

I'm done with you and will not reply to another post of your until you post links showing information to back up ALL of your claims and refutes ALL of the claims in this thread.

No links. You will be ignored as you have provided no facts.

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i did provide links to show your allegations were hogwash. You ignored them.

Google up the building codes for Loudoun County, Virgina aka "Data Center Alley." There are over 160 data centers there. All of them under a code allowing no more than 65db of noise.

You are not interested in facts. You just want to purvey Chinese propaganda that Data Centers are evil.

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Chinese propaganda???? Lol. That is a good one.

You have provided no evidence. You provide one specific example and somehow act like it applies to everywhere and all DCs.

And it does not.

Then you go absent for weeks and ignore tons of posts in this thread but only respond to the one you want to.

I am done arguing with you. But then again it was never an argument. You just said the same bullet points again and again while ignoring posts that prove you wrong, ignoring links with facts and providing zero evidence of your own.

Provide links or you will get no further responses from me.

Provide links.

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I've been busy on a lot of things, to include work + DC projects heating up + a 12-day trip to Europe to see my daughter get her 4th MSM oak leaf cluster at her change of command ceremony. DC stuff included meetings with three different engineering staffs, hydrologists at BRA, a couple of planners from Wall Street firms on infrastructure needs, etc..... Had a fascinating meeting with a guy from Endeavour. Did you know they have a gas generation plant that has noise rating of 70db at 6 feet outside the building? (70db is the sound of a car engine at idle). Did you know they have a cooling system that actually generates more water than it uses? (those DCs you see in desert areas are using systems like that). Thrilling to see the lungs & heart of a free market economy doing what they are supposed to do - supply chain constraints forcing innovation that benefits everyone.
(Go get your own link on Endeavour. Google is your friend).

On July 10th, I'm going to Abilene. The ERCOT Chairman (a personal friend) invited me to join a group he's taking to tour the Stargate facility in Abilene (to see DC stuff) and meet with the Taylor Co Judge (on impacts to county/municipal budgets).

Meanwhile, you will continue to educate yourself by reading Roy Singham-produced propaganda on how Data Centers are the modern evil which must be exterminated from planet Earth. It's got to be true, you know. it's on Facebook! I can only hope to reach your level of understanding.

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And still no links and still ignoring all the other posts in this thread proving you wrong.

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Propaganda is the oxygen of ignorance. It's supposed to make you feel good. Read your links again. You will see there are no facts. Just presumptive doom and emote, trying to turn one of the cleanest economic activities we have into proverbial smoke belching smokestack industry.

You don't need links to emerge from your trance. Just eyes and a brain. Close all the data centers. Then see what happens. If your paycheck is a direct deposit to your bank account, you will not get paid next week/month. But even if you get a paper check in an envelope, you will not be able to deposit it. How will the bank actually put the funds in your account if they can't scan it into their system? They can't even manually key it into your account, as that account is not actually kept on a computer inside the bank building....it's kept on a data center somewhere (that you closed). If you try to write a check on remaining funds in your bank account, it will not clear. There was a time when that check you wrote went to the payee's bank. Then to the nearest Fed clearing house, then back to your bank, then back to you at the end of the month. It used to be about a 5 day loop. Now, that all happens virtually. Via data centers. Today, your vendor's bank scans that check electronically, and the loop happens....on data centers, in moments. Visa processes 83k transactions PER SECOND worldwide. 30k of them in a single DC in Loudoun Co, VA.
https://corporate.visa.com/en/sites/visa-perspectives/security-trust/inside-visa-global-commerce-engine.html

Your employer will have the same dilemma at its banks. It will not be able to generate and send a purchase order. It will not be able to log in inventory, or even pull existing inventory from the shelves for shipment out. It will not be able to generate a work order for the shop floor. Or a sales ticket. It will not be able to pay its vendors. It will not be able to book sales transactions. It will have to lay off staff, because it cannot operate. That is all a logical result of the tech companies realizing way back when that data storage and compute were serious limiting factors in their business models, which would over time massively drive up cost & space for the average desktop computer. The solution? Remote storage of data and SAAS (Software as a Service). So you don't have to but ever more expensive store/compute on your laptop or hand-held device, nor pay for ever more sophisticated software, nor worry about keeping pace with updates to ensure it all works properly. You can just pay a monthly fee for access to software and data stored, maintained, updated on remote servers....i.e. in data centers.

We are having this conversation on a data center. Everything that happens on this site happens on a data center. Every story. Every picture. (rinse and repeat on everything you touch today). The irony of the anti-DataCenter movement using data centers (facebook/insta/X) to fight data centers is profound.

Data centers are not tech industry, friend. They are the new leg of critical infrastructure. Just as important as electrical generation, electrical power lines, water mains, sewer mains, fiber optic cable networks, rail lines, highways, gas & oil pipelines, etc..... We are going to more than double the number of DCs over the next ten years. There will be be economies and efficiencies along the way. They'll take less space, need less water, and power generation will eventually become mostly on-site generated. But we cannot do without them as long as we use things like iPhones, PCs, credit cards, ERP systems, social media, Netflix, self-checkout at HEB, self-driving cars, etc.....

More Data Centers is your future. It is not a bad future. It's a very good one. It's coming whether you like it or not. You can learn it, live with it, profit from it. Or you can get passed up by the railroad and become a dot on a map without a trace of a single improved structure. Your choice. Your legacy.

They will not get better without push back from communities.

All your contacts and meetings are from those building the facilities, of course it is all good. You think they are going to tell Wall Street issues??? I have sold Bonds, you do not meet with the money men telling your problems.

Worth watching the full clip. This is happening all over the country. People's elected representatives have abandoned them and literally signed their allegiance over to corporations. https://t.co/HarEmQpcWp

— Josh Miller-Lewis (@jmillerlewis) July 8, 2026

FLBear5630 said:

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They will not get better without push back from communities.

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I disagree. They will get more expensive as governments intervene further.

FLBear5630 said:

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All your contacts and meetings are from those building the facilities, of course it is all good. You think they are going to tell Wall Street issues??? I have sold Bonds, you do not meet with the money men telling your problems.

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There are 4 layers in this one. Haven't met the offtaker yet. Have a meeting with them tentatively scheduled for 29th this month. Publicly traded company. The other two in the stack are top-10 largest on the S&P 500.

Nothing pathological about a data center.
The DC critics, on the other hand, are stark raving lunatics..

boognish_bear said:

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Worth watching the full clip. This is happening all over the country. People's elected representatives have abandoned them and literally signed their allegiance over to corporations. https://t.co/HarEmQpcWp

— Josh Miller-Lewis (@jmillerlewis) July 8, 2026

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If DCs bring this much public haranguing, let me tell you about rare earth mining and processing…

I said during the tariff debates that one of the first steps in bringing industry (particularly heavy industry) back to the US is a public reckoning of what that actually means. The DC public debate is a microcosm of that underlying reality. So I guess at this point it is still "keep grinding, China et al".

Elon Musk’s latest predictions:

1: University degrees worthless within 36 months

2: AI takes over financial and legal work

3: Robots outperform the best surgeons by 2030

4: Saving for retirement “won’t matter”

Thoughts?

— NoLimit (@NoLimitGains) July 8, 2026

Scare tactics like that tell me you cannot make a case on merit.

ATL Bear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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They will not get better without push back from communities.

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I disagree. They will get more expensive as governments intervene further.

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You are talking cost, i am talking design. The cost effective model you are talking uses too much water, too noisy, too ugly, and too much strain on the grid. You do not give a **** about that as long as cost is in line.

Communities pushing back bring on innovations that make the facilities better, better fits for the communities they are located and more slf sufficient not to destroy the communities. More expensive, yeah. But more sustainable.

Of left to its own design private sector will go as cheap as possible and leave the community dealing with a pig, the Government to provide the infrastructure and then you live in a mice sector of Atl where you would never let one of those facilities around your property or family. Sorry, seen this game too many times. Left to corporations rivers burn, sites become super fund sites . Been involved in too many Uniroyal, Siemens and developers projects leaving communities to clean up a disaster. No faith in the Musks or Corps to do the right thing....

FLBear5630 said:

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ATL Bear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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They will not get better without push back from communities.

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I disagree. They will get more expensive as governments intervene further.

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You are talking cost, i am talking design. The cost effective model you are talking uses too much water, too noisy, too ugly, and too much strain on the grid. You do not give a **** about that as long as cost is in line.

Communities pushing back bring on innovations that make the facilities better, better fits for the communities they are located and more slf sufficient not to destroy the communities. More expensive, yeah. But more sustainable.

Of left to its own design private sector will go as cheap as possible and leave the community dealing with a pig, the Government to provide the infrastructure and then you live in a mice sector of Atl where you would never let one of those facilities around your property or family. Sorry, seen this game too many times. Left to corporations rivers burn, sites become super fund sites . Been involved in too many Uniroyal, Siemens and developers projects leaving communities to clean up a disaster. No faith in the Musks or Corps to do the right thing....

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Using more water and more power costs more. Reducing the need for both lowers it.

And you're back to my point on heavy industry. DCs aren't even close to the polluting and community impact of the others. We're dealing with an efficiency problem here. So as I said, keep grinding, China et al.