quash: "I want to blame him"

Stop with that and at least you're honest.

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

riflebear said:

---

quash said:

---

riflebear said:

---

quash said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Young Justin is gonna be sad!

---

Gonna be a lot of sad to go around when a Democrat in the White House looks around and sees emergencies everywhere.

---

And that's the difference between liberals and conservatives. You are trying to exploit this for future political gain instead of fixing the problem. I'm not saying you are wrong because we know that's exactly what the Dems will do but the title of this thread is hilarious. You are more worried about the 'talk' or terminology of this crisis instead of the actual crisis.

---

I, and the LP, have proposed solutions that will work.

And terminology matters: this is not a crisis of drugs, or crime, refugees. It is a policy cluster****. A wall or nothing approach misses the point.

---

Did you just say this isn't a crime of drugs or crime or refugees? What is it a crisis of then?

---

Law enforcement. As in, Trump insists on actually doing it.

---

That's not actually true. If it were he would enforce the law where it would do the most good: on employers.

---

That would be quite traumatic for the economy as well as the workers who are already here.

---

But, but the "crisis".

---

You said he created one, now you want to blame him for not creating two? Let's take one crisis at a time.

---

I want to blame him for not fulfilling his oath to faithfully execute the law. "The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly." Abraham Lincoln

---

You're blaming him for not executing a law, specifically a law that would be less practical and prudent to fully enforce than the law regarding illegal entry. But he has the discretion, within the faithful execution of the law, to emphasize different aspects at different times.

It's ironic that Trump supporters are accused of having an all-or-nothing mentality when that mindset seems far more apparent in your own arguments. I don't know anyone who's actually against hiring more judges, for example. That doesn't mean we should rely exclusively on judges when the system is suddenly overloaded with bogus asylum claims. Likewise, there's no reason employers can't be held more accountable as the border is brought under better control.

---

No one reads my posts where I pay out my solutions. Probably four times in the last month. More judges is part of it.

And we don't know how many asylum claims are bogus until they get to a judge.

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

riflebear said:

---

quash said:

---

riflebear said:

---

quash said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Young Justin is gonna be sad!

---

Gonna be a lot of sad to go around when a Democrat in the White House looks around and sees emergencies everywhere.

---

And that's the difference between liberals and conservatives. You are trying to exploit this for future political gain instead of fixing the problem. I'm not saying you are wrong because we know that's exactly what the Dems will do but the title of this thread is hilarious. You are more worried about the 'talk' or terminology of this crisis instead of the actual crisis.

---

I, and the LP, have proposed solutions that will work.

And terminology matters: this is not a crisis of drugs, or crime, refugees. It is a policy cluster****. A wall or nothing approach misses the point.

---

Did you just say this isn't a crime of drugs or crime or refugees? What is it a crisis of then?

---

Law enforcement. As in, Trump insists on actually doing it.

---

That's not actually true. If it were he would enforce the law where it would do the most good: on employers.

---

That would be quite traumatic for the economy as well as the workers who are already here.

---

But, but the "crisis".

---

You said he created one, now you want to blame him for not creating two? Let's take one crisis at a time.

---

I want to blame him for not fulfilling his oath to faithfully execute the law. "The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly." Abraham Lincoln

---

You're blaming him for not executing a law, specifically a law that would be less practical and prudent to fully enforce than the law regarding illegal entry. But he has the discretion, within the faithful execution of the law, to emphasize different aspects at different times.

It's ironic that Trump supporters are accused of having an all-or-nothing mentality when that mindset seems far more apparent in your own arguments. I don't know anyone who's actually against hiring more judges, for example. That doesn't mean we should rely exclusively on judges when the system is suddenly overloaded with bogus asylum claims. Likewise, there's no reason employers can't be held more accountable as the border is brought under better control.

---

No one reads my posts where I pay out my solutions. Probably four times in the last month. More judges is part of it.

And we don't know how many asylum claims are bogus until they get to a judge.

---

If we made it easier for documented workers to enter the country, employers wouldn't find it necessary to hire undocumented workers to perform menial tasks others are unwilling to perform.

Quote:

---

That doesn't mean we should rely exclusively on judges when the system is suddenly overloaded with bogus asylum claims.

---

Who is going to make that determination if not a judge?

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why the hell does anyone think just because most of the drugs are seized at the port of entry that somehow this means that only drugs are going through the ports of entry?

Common sense says of course they're being caught there because that's where law enforcement is.

The drugs that are coming from the border are going through areas where there are no barriers or enforcement.

---

There is enforcement, what are you talking about?

---

If there's enforcement everywhere then how are 2000+ crossing illegally everyday?

---

If there is no enforcement why are so many caught?

---

OK, I see we have to go to basics:

Where there are barriers and enforcement, illegals get caught

Where there are no barriers or law enforcement, illegals are not caught and enter the country.

Building walls costs a lot less than man-hours, and historically is very effective.


Next lesson: addition and subtraction

---

He won't even acknowledge that illegal immigrants cost more than they give back.

---

Of course not: it's not true.

---

An estimated half of the nation's undocumented immigrants are believed to be working under fake Social Security numbers, which means they are paying taxes and into Social Security.

That means at least half are not paying their fair share of taxes. Legally they shouldn't even be here to begin with.

The reason illegal immigrants are unambiguously a net fiscal drain is that less-educated people, native-born or immigrant, earn on average modest wages and as a result they tend to make modest tax contributions, while needing significant social services.

Actual net lifetime fiscal cost of illegal immigrants is likely $125,000 to $135,000 per illegal alien.

TS: "Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card,"

Not for the people I know. It's a long process, sure, but no worse than I had getting a visa to work in China some years back, just as an example.

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card,"

Not for the people I know. It's a long process, sure, but no worse than I had getting a visa to work in China some years back, just as an example.

---

I was able to get a visa to China within 90 days. I had an employee that took over a year to get his wife here on a green card from Mexico.

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Cannabis used responsibly is a fantastic supplement. Great for relief of many negative physical and mental aspects of life.

Not to mention the many uses of Hemp. From what I recall, Hemp is stronger, cheaper and easier to use and produce for the replacement of aluminium bodies for automobiles and many other things.

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card,"

Not for the people I know. It's a long process, sure, but no worse than I had getting a visa to work in China some years back, just as an example.

---

I was able to get a visa to China within 90 days. I had an employee that took over a year to get his wife here on a green card from Mexico.

---

I said 'worse', not longer. A visa is not a residency, which is what a green card gets you.

Try for residency as an alien in China, it will take years. Same for Russia or even England (I have a sister in England, took her 5 years to be allowed to live there).

Apples to apples, the US system is not really that bad. The problem is that it's in high demand, and lots of people just refuse to follow the rules.

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Alcohol, in and of itself, is not an addictive substance. It is only addictive to people who are genetically predisposed to addiction

The addictiveness of pot is not settled I think. Pot definitely causes impairment and loss of functionality. The people I know that use pot frequently lose effectiveness at doing life stuff. The other schedule 1 stuff is incredibly addictive to the entire population

ValhallaBear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Alcohol, in and of itself, is not an addictive substance. It is only addictive to people who are genetically predisposed to addiction

The addictiveness of pot is not settled I think. Pot definitely causes impairment and loss of functionality. The people I know that use pot frequently lose effectiveness at doing life stuff. The other schedule 1 stuff is incredibly addictive to the entire population

---

There is absolutely a dependency that can arise with Cannabis. But there are no withdrawal symptoms or physical "Jonsesing" symptoms like we see with alcohol and tobacco. If you want to quit smoking pot...it's fairly easy. If there were any problems it would be classified as a mental disorder/issue rather than a substance abuse issue.

There are also no known major medical issues with using Cannabis: in fact there are major net health benefits to using Cannabis that should be considered.

From my POV: if we're going to legalize the use of alcohol and tobacco...it's contradictory and inappropriate for our government to then define Cannabis as an illegal drug.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card,"

Not for the people I know. It's a long process, sure, but no worse than I had getting a visa to work in China some years back, just as an example.

---

Strange. I got my 10 year visitor Visa for China at the embassy in Laos overnight and for 160 us dollars. Once I had an employer I chnged it to a work vida. 2 days and a trip to hong Kong. My employer paid for it but i am pretty sure it ws under $200.

On the other hand, it takes years and sometimes a lottery win to get a visa to America. I good friend of mine from the Philppines waited 7 years. She has a doctorate in her field. Once she got here she has worked steadily for ten years. I know Mexicans that say the waiting time is around 10 years. Thais have a tough time too. Marriage to a citizen still works but it costs thousands of dollars and a year wait.

So tell me '83, what kind of visa was so difficult? The L visa is good for 10 years. I had the L and the W.

Its much easier for Canadians or Irish or English to get a vis to the US. I dont understand why.

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

---

Yeah I want to know as well.

I could see not penalizing/criminalizing the use of drugs as that is a conduit to create criminals in the prison system...but I don't see how one could legalize the creation and selling of those hard drugs.

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

---

Good question.
How much would the programs cost? State or Federal obligation? Maybe we could create another federal agency and hire 100,000 new federal employees

TS?

Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card,"

Not for the people I know. It's a long process, sure, but no worse than I had getting a visa to work in China some years back, just as an example.

---

Strange. I got my 10 year visitor Visa for China at the embassy in Laos overnight and for 160 us dollars. Once I had an employer I chnged it to a work vida. 2 days and a trip to hong Kong. My employer paid for it but i am pretty sure it ws under $200.

On the other hand, it takes years and sometimes a lottery win to get a visa to America. I good friend of mine from the Philppines waited 7 years. She has a doctorate in her field. Once she got here she has worked steadily for ten years. I know Mexicans that say the waiting time is around 10 years. Thais have a tough time too. Marriage to a citizen still works but it costs thousands of dollars and a year wait.

So tell me '83, what kind of visa was so difficult? The L visa is good for 10 years. I had the L and the W.

Its much easier for Canadians or Irish or English to get a vis to the US. I dont understand why.

---

The work visa was tricky for me, in part due to China deciding to promote domestic valve production and so they were grumpy about our foundries in Yangchen, and took it out through bureaucracy.

My wife's mom had a pretty easy time, but as a guy from INS told me "we're not about to go on TV deporting someone's grandmom because of which page was signed in an application".

That is, there's a lot of image in the mess. The flood of illegals from South America is killing opportunity for a lot of other, legit, immigrants. The people I know want to do the right thing, but everyone with a title has an image to protect, for one side or the other of the debate.

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why the hell does anyone think just because most of the drugs are seized at the port of entry that somehow this means that only drugs are going through the ports of entry?

Common sense says of course they're being caught there because that's where law enforcement is.

The drugs that are coming from the border are going through areas where there are no barriers or enforcement.

---

There is enforcement, what are you talking about?

---

If there's enforcement everywhere then how are 2000+ crossing illegally everyday?

---

If there is no enforcement why are so many caught?

---

OK, I see we have to go to basics:

Where there are barriers and enforcement, illegals get caught

Where there are no barriers or law enforcement, illegals are not caught and enter the country.

Building walls costs a lot less than man-hours, and historically is very effective.


Next lesson: addition and subtraction

---

He won't even acknowledge that illegal immigrants cost more than they give back.

---

Of course not: it's not true.

---

An estimated half of the nation's undocumented immigrants are believed to be working under fake Social Security numbers, which means they are paying taxes and into Social Security.

That means at least half are not paying their fair share of taxes. Legally they shouldn't even be here to begin with.

The reason illegal immigrants are unambiguously a net fiscal drain is that less-educated people, native-born or immigrant, earn on average modest wages and as a result they tend to make modest tax contributions, while needing significant social services.

Actual net lifetime fiscal cost of illegal immigrants is likely $125,000 to $135,000 per illegal alien.

---

Nope. Your assuming cradle to grave social costs
First, many migrants are working age. We never had the biggest outlay: public education.
Second, they pay sales and property taxes for, wait for it, public education, among other things.
Third, they'll never collect a dime of those social security benefits. But we will. They are keeping SS afloat for a few extra years.
Four, the cyclical flow of labor means that many return home to start families, etc. before they reach the age when they become a drain on healthcare.

The wall, however, interrupts that flow.

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why the hell does anyone think just because most of the drugs are seized at the port of entry that somehow this means that only drugs are going through the ports of entry?

Common sense says of course they're being caught there because that's where law enforcement is.

The drugs that are coming from the border are going through areas where there are no barriers or enforcement.

---

There is enforcement, what are you talking about?

---

If there's enforcement everywhere then how are 2000+ crossing illegally everyday?

---

If there is no enforcement why are so many caught?

---

OK, I see we have to go to basics:

Where there are barriers and enforcement, illegals get caught

Where there are no barriers or law enforcement, illegals are not caught and enter the country.

Building walls costs a lot less than man-hours, and historically is very effective.


Next lesson: addition and subtraction

---

He won't even acknowledge that illegal immigrants cost more than they give back.

---

Of course not: it's not true.

---

An estimated half of the nation's undocumented immigrants are believed to be working under fake Social Security numbers, which means they are paying taxes and into Social Security.

That means at least half are not paying their fair share of taxes. Legally they shouldn't even be here to begin with.

The reason illegal immigrants are unambiguously a net fiscal drain is that less-educated people, native-born or immigrant, earn on average modest wages and as a result they tend to make modest tax contributions, while needing significant social services.

Actual net lifetime fiscal cost of illegal immigrants is likely $125,000 to $135,000 per illegal alien.

---

Nope. Your assuming cradle to grave social costs
First, many migrants are working age. We never had the biggest outlay: public education.
Second, they pay sales and property taxes for, wait for it, public education, among other things.
Third, they'll never collect a dime of those social security benefits. But we will. They are keeping SS afloat for a few extra years.
Four, the cyclical flow of labor means that many return home to start families, etc. before they reach the age when they become a drain on healthcare.

The wall, however, interrupts that flow.

---

Current illegals (22 million) pay $12 billion in state and local taxes.

22 million average Americans pay $224 Billion in state and local taxes.

Explain where the $212 billion is going to come from that we're missing out on in comparison to legal taxpayers?

I want these people paying contributing the EXACT SAME as a legal citizen or I want them ALL gone.

My mother can't find a ****ing job because she isn't bilingual. There are burdens on Americans too quash...you just DGAF.

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why the hell does anyone think just because most of the drugs are seized at the port of entry that somehow this means that only drugs are going through the ports of entry?

Common sense says of course they're being caught there because that's where law enforcement is.

The drugs that are coming from the border are going through areas where there are no barriers or enforcement.

---

There is enforcement, what are you talking about?

---

If there's enforcement everywhere then how are 2000+ crossing illegally everyday?

---

If there is no enforcement why are so many caught?

---

OK, I see we have to go to basics:

Where there are barriers and enforcement, illegals get caught

Where there are no barriers or law enforcement, illegals are not caught and enter the country.

Building walls costs a lot less than man-hours, and historically is very effective.


Next lesson: addition and subtraction

---

He won't even acknowledge that illegal immigrants cost more than they give back.

---

Of course not: it's not true.

---

An estimated half of the nation's undocumented immigrants are believed to be working under fake Social Security numbers, which means they are paying taxes and into Social Security.

That means at least half are not paying their fair share of taxes. Legally they shouldn't even be here to begin with.

The reason illegal immigrants are unambiguously a net fiscal drain is that less-educated people, native-born or immigrant, earn on average modest wages and as a result they tend to make modest tax contributions, while needing significant social services.

Actual net lifetime fiscal cost of illegal immigrants is likely $125,000 to $135,000 per illegal alien.

---

Nope. Your assuming cradle to grave social costs
First, many migrants are working age. We never had the biggest outlay: public education.
Second, they pay sales and property taxes for, wait for it, public education, among other things.
Third, they'll never collect a dime of those social security benefits. But we will. They are keeping SS afloat for a few extra years.
Four, the cyclical flow of labor means that many return home to start families, etc. before they reach the age when they become a drain on healthcare.

The wall, however, interrupts that flow.

---

Current illegals (22 million) pay $12 billion in state and local taxes.

22 million average Americans pay $224 Billion in state and local taxes.

Explain where the $212 billion is going to come from that we're missing out on in comparison to legal taxpayers?

I want these people paying contributing the EXACT SAME as a legal citizen or I want them ALL gone.

My mother can't find a ****ing job because she isn't bilingual. There are burdens on Americans too quash...you just DGAF.

---

Breathe, snow.

Again with that 22 million number, that has been debunked.

You want the state to regulate in a way that benefits you. That is statism.

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why the hell does anyone think just because most of the drugs are seized at the port of entry that somehow this means that only drugs are going through the ports of entry?

Common sense says of course they're being caught there because that's where law enforcement is.

The drugs that are coming from the border are going through areas where there are no barriers or enforcement.

---

There is enforcement, what are you talking about?

---

If there's enforcement everywhere then how are 2000+ crossing illegally everyday?

---

If there is no enforcement why are so many caught?

---

OK, I see we have to go to basics:

Where there are barriers and enforcement, illegals get caught

Where there are no barriers or law enforcement, illegals are not caught and enter the country.

Building walls costs a lot less than man-hours, and historically is very effective.


Next lesson: addition and subtraction

---

He won't even acknowledge that illegal immigrants cost more than they give back.

---

Of course not: it's not true.

---

An estimated half of the nation's undocumented immigrants are believed to be working under fake Social Security numbers, which means they are paying taxes and into Social Security.

That means at least half are not paying their fair share of taxes. Legally they shouldn't even be here to begin with.

The reason illegal immigrants are unambiguously a net fiscal drain is that less-educated people, native-born or immigrant, earn on average modest wages and as a result they tend to make modest tax contributions, while needing significant social services.

Actual net lifetime fiscal cost of illegal immigrants is likely $125,000 to $135,000 per illegal alien.

---

Nope. Your assuming cradle to grave social costs
First, many migrants are working age. We never had the biggest outlay: public education.
Second, they pay sales and property taxes for, wait for it, public education, among other things.
Third, they'll never collect a dime of those social security benefits. But we will. They are keeping SS afloat for a few extra years.
Four, the cyclical flow of labor means that many return home to start families, etc. before they reach the age when they become a drain on healthcare.

The wall, however, interrupts that flow.

---

The wall will not disrupt the flow of legal immigration.
We will pay for their healthcare and their children's education. The property taxes they might pay won't

I hope the wall disrupts illegal migration. That would be its purpose.

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why the hell does anyone think just because most of the drugs are seized at the port of entry that somehow this means that only drugs are going through the ports of entry?

Common sense says of course they're being caught there because that's where law enforcement is.

The drugs that are coming from the border are going through areas where there are no barriers or enforcement.

---

There is enforcement, what are you talking about?

---

If there's enforcement everywhere then how are 2000+ crossing illegally everyday?

---

If there is no enforcement why are so many caught?

---

OK, I see we have to go to basics:

Where there are barriers and enforcement, illegals get caught

Where there are no barriers or law enforcement, illegals are not caught and enter the country.

Building walls costs a lot less than man-hours, and historically is very effective.


Next lesson: addition and subtraction

---

He won't even acknowledge that illegal immigrants cost more than they give back.

---

Of course not: it's not true.

---

An estimated half of the nation's undocumented immigrants are believed to be working under fake Social Security numbers, which means they are paying taxes and into Social Security.

That means at least half are not paying their fair share of taxes. Legally they shouldn't even be here to begin with.

The reason illegal immigrants are unambiguously a net fiscal drain is that less-educated people, native-born or immigrant, earn on average modest wages and as a result they tend to make modest tax contributions, while needing significant social services.

Actual net lifetime fiscal cost of illegal immigrants is likely $125,000 to $135,000 per illegal alien.

---

Nope. Your assuming cradle to grave social costs
First, many migrants are working age. We never had the biggest outlay: public education.
Second, they pay sales and property taxes for, wait for it, public education, among other things.
Third, they'll never collect a dime of those social security benefits. But we will. They are keeping SS afloat for a few extra years.
Four, the cyclical flow of labor means that many return home to start families, etc. before they reach the age when they become a drain on healthcare.

The wall, however, interrupts that flow.

---

Current illegals (22 million) pay $12 billion in state and local taxes.

22 million average Americans pay $224 Billion in state and local taxes.

Explain where the $212 billion is going to come from that we're missing out on in comparison to legal taxpayers?

I want these people paying contributing the EXACT SAME as a legal citizen or I want them ALL gone.

My mother can't find a ****ing job because she isn't bilingual. There are burdens on Americans too quash...you just DGAF.

---

Breathe, snow.

Again with that 22 million number, that has been debunked.

You want the state to regulate in a way that benefits you. That is statism.

---

I don't give a damn if it's statism.

And if it's only 11 million immigrants...that makes my argument even stronger!

Osodecentx said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why the hell does anyone think just because most of the drugs are seized at the port of entry that somehow this means that only drugs are going through the ports of entry?

Common sense says of course they're being caught there because that's where law enforcement is.

The drugs that are coming from the border are going through areas where there are no barriers or enforcement.

---

There is enforcement, what are you talking about?

---

If there's enforcement everywhere then how are 2000+ crossing illegally everyday?

---

If there is no enforcement why are so many caught?

---

OK, I see we have to go to basics:

Where there are barriers and enforcement, illegals get caught

Where there are no barriers or law enforcement, illegals are not caught and enter the country.

Building walls costs a lot less than man-hours, and historically is very effective.


Next lesson: addition and subtraction

---

He won't even acknowledge that illegal immigrants cost more than they give back.

---

Of course not: it's not true.

---

An estimated half of the nation's undocumented immigrants are believed to be working under fake Social Security numbers, which means they are paying taxes and into Social Security.

That means at least half are not paying their fair share of taxes. Legally they shouldn't even be here to begin with.

The reason illegal immigrants are unambiguously a net fiscal drain is that less-educated people, native-born or immigrant, earn on average modest wages and as a result they tend to make modest tax contributions, while needing significant social services.

Actual net lifetime fiscal cost of illegal immigrants is likely $125,000 to $135,000 per illegal alien.

---

Nope. Your assuming cradle to grave social costs
First, many migrants are working age. We never had the biggest outlay: public education.
Second, they pay sales and property taxes for, wait for it, public education, among other things.
Third, they'll never collect a dime of those social security benefits. But we will. They are keeping SS afloat for a few extra years.
Four, the cyclical flow of labor means that many return home to start families, etc. before they reach the age when they become a drain on healthcare.

The wall, however, interrupts that flow.

---

The wall will not disrupt the flow of legal immigration.
We will pay for their healthcare and their children's education. The property taxes they might pay won't

I hope the wall disrupts illegal migration. That would be its purpose.

---

You're talking to a person who puts their ideology over results.

He doesn't care about any negative aspects of illegal immigration...he only cares about the ideology he runs on and it ends there.

Osodecentx said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why the hell does anyone think just because most of the drugs are seized at the port of entry that somehow this means that only drugs are going through the ports of entry?

Common sense says of course they're being caught there because that's where law enforcement is.

The drugs that are coming from the border are going through areas where there are no barriers or enforcement.

---

There is enforcement, what are you talking about?

---

If there's enforcement everywhere then how are 2000+ crossing illegally everyday?

---

If there is no enforcement why are so many caught?

---

OK, I see we have to go to basics:

Where there are barriers and enforcement, illegals get caught

Where there are no barriers or law enforcement, illegals are not caught and enter the country.

Building walls costs a lot less than man-hours, and historically is very effective.


Next lesson: addition and subtraction

---

He won't even acknowledge that illegal immigrants cost more than they give back.

---

Of course not: it's not true.

---

An estimated half of the nation's undocumented immigrants are believed to be working under fake Social Security numbers, which means they are paying taxes and into Social Security.

That means at least half are not paying their fair share of taxes. Legally they shouldn't even be here to begin with.

The reason illegal immigrants are unambiguously a net fiscal drain is that less-educated people, native-born or immigrant, earn on average modest wages and as a result they tend to make modest tax contributions, while needing significant social services.

Actual net lifetime fiscal cost of illegal immigrants is likely $125,000 to $135,000 per illegal alien.

---

Nope. Your assuming cradle to grave social costs
First, many migrants are working age. We never had the biggest outlay: public education.
Second, they pay sales and property taxes for, wait for it, public education, among other things.
Third, they'll never collect a dime of those social security benefits. But we will. They are keeping SS afloat for a few extra years.
Four, the cyclical flow of labor means that many return home to start families, etc. before they reach the age when they become a drain on healthcare.

The wall, however, interrupts that flow.

---

The wall will not disrupt the flow of legal immigration.
We will pay for their healthcare and their children's education. The property taxes they might pay won't

I hope the wall disrupts illegal migration. That would be its purpose.

---

That purpose causes economic issues as employers can't get workers. And, it causes others to stay when they would have left. Govt interference in the marketplace is for socialists.

quash said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why the hell does anyone think just because most of the drugs are seized at the port of entry that somehow this means that only drugs are going through the ports of entry?

Common sense says of course they're being caught there because that's where law enforcement is.

The drugs that are coming from the border are going through areas where there are no barriers or enforcement.

---

There is enforcement, what are you talking about?

---

If there's enforcement everywhere then how are 2000+ crossing illegally everyday?

---

If there is no enforcement why are so many caught?

---

OK, I see we have to go to basics:

Where there are barriers and enforcement, illegals get caught

Where there are no barriers or law enforcement, illegals are not caught and enter the country.

Building walls costs a lot less than man-hours, and historically is very effective.


Next lesson: addition and subtraction

---

He won't even acknowledge that illegal immigrants cost more than they give back.

---

Of course not: it's not true.

---

An estimated half of the nation's undocumented immigrants are believed to be working under fake Social Security numbers, which means they are paying taxes and into Social Security.

That means at least half are not paying their fair share of taxes. Legally they shouldn't even be here to begin with.

The reason illegal immigrants are unambiguously a net fiscal drain is that less-educated people, native-born or immigrant, earn on average modest wages and as a result they tend to make modest tax contributions, while needing significant social services.

Actual net lifetime fiscal cost of illegal immigrants is likely $125,000 to $135,000 per illegal alien.

---

Nope. Your assuming cradle to grave social costs
First, many migrants are working age. We never had the biggest outlay: public education.
Second, they pay sales and property taxes for, wait for it, public education, among other things.
Third, they'll never collect a dime of those social security benefits. But we will. They are keeping SS afloat for a few extra years.
Four, the cyclical flow of labor means that many return home to start families, etc. before they reach the age when they become a drain on healthcare.

The wall, however, interrupts that flow.

---

The wall will not disrupt the flow of legal immigration.
We will pay for their healthcare and their children's education. The property taxes they might pay won't

I hope the wall disrupts illegal migration. That would be its purpose.

---

That purpose causes economic issues as employers can't get workers. And, it causes others to stay when they would have left. Govt interference in the marketplace is for socialists.

---

**** those employers. I don't give a damn.

Make the millions of lazy ass jobless Americans do those jobs by cutting their welfare.

And socialism is when the state controls who gets what and how much they get. This has nothing to do with socialism or statism. There are laws on the books that are being ignored. You are in favor of ignoring those laws.

quash said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why the hell does anyone think just because most of the drugs are seized at the port of entry that somehow this means that only drugs are going through the ports of entry?

Common sense says of course they're being caught there because that's where law enforcement is.

The drugs that are coming from the border are going through areas where there are no barriers or enforcement.

---

There is enforcement, what are you talking about?

---

If there's enforcement everywhere then how are 2000+ crossing illegally everyday?

---

If there is no enforcement why are so many caught?

---

OK, I see we have to go to basics:

Where there are barriers and enforcement, illegals get caught

Where there are no barriers or law enforcement, illegals are not caught and enter the country.

Building walls costs a lot less than man-hours, and historically is very effective.


Next lesson: addition and subtraction

---

He won't even acknowledge that illegal immigrants cost more than they give back.

---

Of course not: it's not true.

---

An estimated half of the nation's undocumented immigrants are believed to be working under fake Social Security numbers, which means they are paying taxes and into Social Security.

That means at least half are not paying their fair share of taxes. Legally they shouldn't even be here to begin with.

The reason illegal immigrants are unambiguously a net fiscal drain is that less-educated people, native-born or immigrant, earn on average modest wages and as a result they tend to make modest tax contributions, while needing significant social services.

Actual net lifetime fiscal cost of illegal immigrants is likely $125,000 to $135,000 per illegal alien.

---

Nope. Your assuming cradle to grave social costs
First, many migrants are working age. We never had the biggest outlay: public education.
Second, they pay sales and property taxes for, wait for it, public education, among other things.
Third, they'll never collect a dime of those social security benefits. But we will. They are keeping SS afloat for a few extra years.
Four, the cyclical flow of labor means that many return home to start families, etc. before they reach the age when they become a drain on healthcare.

The wall, however, interrupts that flow.

---

The wall will not disrupt the flow of legal immigration.
We will pay for their healthcare and their children's education. The property taxes they might pay won't

I hope the wall disrupts illegal migration. That would be its purpose.

---

That purpose causes economic issues as employers can't get workers. And, it causes others to stay when they would have left. Govt interference in the marketplace is for socialists.

---

They can get plenty of workers. They just don't want to pay first world wages for them

quash said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why the hell does anyone think just because most of the drugs are seized at the port of entry that somehow this means that only drugs are going through the ports of entry?

Common sense says of course they're being caught there because that's where law enforcement is.

The drugs that are coming from the border are going through areas where there are no barriers or enforcement.

---

There is enforcement, what are you talking about?

---

If there's enforcement everywhere then how are 2000+ crossing illegally everyday?

---

If there is no enforcement why are so many caught?

---

OK, I see we have to go to basics:

Where there are barriers and enforcement, illegals get caught

Where there are no barriers or law enforcement, illegals are not caught and enter the country.

Building walls costs a lot less than man-hours, and historically is very effective.


Next lesson: addition and subtraction

---

He won't even acknowledge that illegal immigrants cost more than they give back.

---

Of course not: it's not true.

---

An estimated half of the nation's undocumented immigrants are believed to be working under fake Social Security numbers, which means they are paying taxes and into Social Security.

That means at least half are not paying their fair share of taxes. Legally they shouldn't even be here to begin with.

The reason illegal immigrants are unambiguously a net fiscal drain is that less-educated people, native-born or immigrant, earn on average modest wages and as a result they tend to make modest tax contributions, while needing significant social services.

Actual net lifetime fiscal cost of illegal immigrants is likely $125,000 to $135,000 per illegal alien.

---

Nope. Your assuming cradle to grave social costs
First, many migrants are working age. We never had the biggest outlay: public education.
Second, they pay sales and property taxes for, wait for it, public education, among other things.
Third, they'll never collect a dime of those social security benefits. But we will. They are keeping SS afloat for a few extra years.
Four, the cyclical flow of labor means that many return home to start families, etc. before they reach the age when they become a drain on healthcare.

The wall, however, interrupts that flow.

---

The wall will not disrupt the flow of legal immigration.
We will pay for their healthcare and their children's education. The property taxes they might pay won't

I hope the wall disrupts illegal migration. That would be its purpose.

---

That purpose causes economic issues as employers can't get workers. And, it causes others to stay when they would have left. Govt interference in the marketplace is for socialists.

---

It isn't a free market for labor when thousands of foreigners flood the market. A wall is supposed to cause others to stay in their own country.

What you call government interference I call sovereign borders. Every country on earth has a border and decides by their laws who may come and go and the manner by which that happens.

Osodecentx said:

---

quash said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why the hell does anyone think just because most of the drugs are seized at the port of entry that somehow this means that only drugs are going through the ports of entry?

Common sense says of course they're being caught there because that's where law enforcement is.

The drugs that are coming from the border are going through areas where there are no barriers or enforcement.

---

There is enforcement, what are you talking about?

---

If there's enforcement everywhere then how are 2000+ crossing illegally everyday?

---

If there is no enforcement why are so many caught?

---

OK, I see we have to go to basics:

Where there are barriers and enforcement, illegals get caught

Where there are no barriers or law enforcement, illegals are not caught and enter the country.

Building walls costs a lot less than man-hours, and historically is very effective.


Next lesson: addition and subtraction

---

He won't even acknowledge that illegal immigrants cost more than they give back.

---

Of course not: it's not true.

---

An estimated half of the nation's undocumented immigrants are believed to be working under fake Social Security numbers, which means they are paying taxes and into Social Security.

That means at least half are not paying their fair share of taxes. Legally they shouldn't even be here to begin with.

The reason illegal immigrants are unambiguously a net fiscal drain is that less-educated people, native-born or immigrant, earn on average modest wages and as a result they tend to make modest tax contributions, while needing significant social services.

Actual net lifetime fiscal cost of illegal immigrants is likely $125,000 to $135,000 per illegal alien.

---

Nope. Your assuming cradle to grave social costs
First, many migrants are working age. We never had the biggest outlay: public education.
Second, they pay sales and property taxes for, wait for it, public education, among other things.
Third, they'll never collect a dime of those social security benefits. But we will. They are keeping SS afloat for a few extra years.
Four, the cyclical flow of labor means that many return home to start families, etc. before they reach the age when they become a drain on healthcare.

The wall, however, interrupts that flow.

---

The wall will not disrupt the flow of legal immigration.
We will pay for their healthcare and their children's education. The property taxes they might pay won't

I hope the wall disrupts illegal migration. That would be its purpose.

---

That purpose causes economic issues as employers can't get workers. And, it causes others to stay when they would have left. Govt interference in the marketplace is for socialists.

---

It isn't a free market for labor when thousands of foreigners flood the market. A wall is supposed to cause others to stay in their own country.

What you call government interference I call sovereign borders. Every country on earth has a border and decides by their laws who may come and go and the manner by which that happens.

---

You drop that mic boi!

There's the rub. He doesn't believe in borders.

It's some weird ******ed tic

When quash writes "breathe", it's like when cinque used to post "chuckle".

It means he has nothing to use in response, so he deflects.

Weakly.

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why the hell does anyone think just because most of the drugs are seized at the port of entry that somehow this means that only drugs are going through the ports of entry?

Common sense says of course they're being caught there because that's where law enforcement is.

The drugs that are coming from the border are going through areas where there are no barriers or enforcement.

---

There is enforcement, what are you talking about?

---

If there's enforcement everywhere then how are 2000+ crossing illegally everyday?

---

If there is no enforcement why are so many caught?

---

OK, I see we have to go to basics:

Where there are barriers and enforcement, illegals get caught

Where there are no barriers or law enforcement, illegals are not caught and enter the country.

Building walls costs a lot less than man-hours, and historically is very effective.


Next lesson: addition and subtraction

---

He won't even acknowledge that illegal immigrants cost more than they give back.

---

Of course not: it's not true.

---

An estimated half of the nation's undocumented immigrants are believed to be working under fake Social Security numbers, which means they are paying taxes and into Social Security.

That means at least half are not paying their fair share of taxes. Legally they shouldn't even be here to begin with.

The reason illegal immigrants are unambiguously a net fiscal drain is that less-educated people, native-born or immigrant, earn on average modest wages and as a result they tend to make modest tax contributions, while needing significant social services.

Actual net lifetime fiscal cost of illegal immigrants is likely $125,000 to $135,000 per illegal alien.

---

Nope. Your assuming cradle to grave social costs
First, many migrants are working age. We never had the biggest outlay: public education.
Second, they pay sales and property taxes for, wait for it, public education, among other things.
Third, they'll never collect a dime of those social security benefits. But we will. They are keeping SS afloat for a few extra years.
Four, the cyclical flow of labor means that many return home to start families, etc. before they reach the age when they become a drain on healthcare.

The wall, however, interrupts that flow.

---

The wall will not disrupt the flow of legal immigration.
We will pay for their healthcare and their children's education. The property taxes they might pay won't

I hope the wall disrupts illegal migration. That would be its purpose.

---

That purpose causes economic issues as employers can't get workers. And, it causes others to stay when they would have left. Govt interference in the marketplace is for socialists.

---

**** those employers. I don't give a damn.

Make the millions of lazy ass jobless Americans do those jobs by cutting their welfare.

And socialism is when the state controls who gets what and how much they get. This has nothing to do with socialism or statism. There are laws on the books that are being ignored. You are in favor of ignoring those laws.

---

I am in favor of changing those laws. That's what I keep saying.

And using the force of the state to make people do certain jobs is as statist as it gets, comrade.

Expecting the US government to protect the borders is not "statist", it's sanity.

Even George Washington came around on that point.

Osodecentx said:

---

quash said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why the hell does anyone think just because most of the drugs are seized at the port of entry that somehow this means that only drugs are going through the ports of entry?

Common sense says of course they're being caught there because that's where law enforcement is.

The drugs that are coming from the border are going through areas where there are no barriers or enforcement.

---

There is enforcement, what are you talking about?

---

If there's enforcement everywhere then how are 2000+ crossing illegally everyday?

---

If there is no enforcement why are so many caught?

---

OK, I see we have to go to basics:

Where there are barriers and enforcement, illegals get caught

Where there are no barriers or law enforcement, illegals are not caught and enter the country.

Building walls costs a lot less than man-hours, and historically is very effective.


Next lesson: addition and subtraction

---

He won't even acknowledge that illegal immigrants cost more than they give back.

---

Of course not: it's not true.

---

An estimated half of the nation's undocumented immigrants are believed to be working under fake Social Security numbers, which means they are paying taxes and into Social Security.

That means at least half are not paying their fair share of taxes. Legally they shouldn't even be here to begin with.

The reason illegal immigrants are unambiguously a net fiscal drain is that less-educated people, native-born or immigrant, earn on average modest wages and as a result they tend to make modest tax contributions, while needing significant social services.

Actual net lifetime fiscal cost of illegal immigrants is likely $125,000 to $135,000 per illegal alien.

---

Nope. Your assuming cradle to grave social costs
First, many migrants are working age. We never had the biggest outlay: public education.
Second, they pay sales and property taxes for, wait for it, public education, among other things.
Third, they'll never collect a dime of those social security benefits. But we will. They are keeping SS afloat for a few extra years.
Four, the cyclical flow of labor means that many return home to start families, etc. before they reach the age when they become a drain on healthcare.

The wall, however, interrupts that flow.

---

The wall will not disrupt the flow of legal immigration.
We will pay for their healthcare and their children's education. The property taxes they might pay won't

I hope the wall disrupts illegal migration. That would be its purpose.

---

That purpose causes economic issues as employers can't get workers. And, it causes others to stay when they would have left. Govt interference in the marketplace is for socialists.

---

It isn't a free market for labor when thousands of foreigners flood the market. A wall is supposed to cause others to stay in their own country.

What you call government interference I call sovereign borders. Every country on earth has a border and decides by their laws who may come and go and the manner by which that happens.

---

Again, the market handles floods and it handles droughts. The govt shouldn't be creating either situation.

Osodecentx said:

---

quash said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why the hell does anyone think just because most of the drugs are seized at the port of entry that somehow this means that only drugs are going through the ports of entry?

Common sense says of course they're being caught there because that's where law enforcement is.

The drugs that are coming from the border are going through areas where there are no barriers or enforcement.

---

There is enforcement, what are you talking about?

---

If there's enforcement everywhere then how are 2000+ crossing illegally everyday?

---

If there is no enforcement why are so many caught?

---

OK, I see we have to go to basics:

Where there are barriers and enforcement, illegals get caught

Where there are no barriers or law enforcement, illegals are not caught and enter the country.

Building walls costs a lot less than man-hours, and historically is very effective.


Next lesson: addition and subtraction

---

He won't even acknowledge that illegal immigrants cost more than they give back.

---

Of course not: it's not true.

---

An estimated half of the nation's undocumented immigrants are believed to be working under fake Social Security numbers, which means they are paying taxes and into Social Security.

That means at least half are not paying their fair share of taxes. Legally they shouldn't even be here to begin with.

The reason illegal immigrants are unambiguously a net fiscal drain is that less-educated people, native-born or immigrant, earn on average modest wages and as a result they tend to make modest tax contributions, while needing significant social services.

Actual net lifetime fiscal cost of illegal immigrants is likely $125,000 to $135,000 per illegal alien.

---

Nope. Your assuming cradle to grave social costs
First, many migrants are working age. We never had the biggest outlay: public education.
Second, they pay sales and property taxes for, wait for it, public education, among other things.
Third, they'll never collect a dime of those social security benefits. But we will. They are keeping SS afloat for a few extra years.
Four, the cyclical flow of labor means that many return home to start families, etc. before they reach the age when they become a drain on healthcare.

The wall, however, interrupts that flow.

---

The wall will not disrupt the flow of legal immigration.
We will pay for their healthcare and their children's education. The property taxes they might pay won't

I hope the wall disrupts illegal migration. That would be its purpose.

---

That purpose causes economic issues as employers can't get workers. And, it causes others to stay when they would have left. Govt interference in the marketplace is for socialists.

---

It isn't a free market for labor when thousands of foreigners flood the market. A wall is supposed to cause others to stay in their own country.

What you call government interference I call sovereign borders. Every country on earth has a border and decides by their laws who may come and go and the manner by which that happens.

---

Again, the market handles floods and it handles droughts. The govt shouldn't be creating either situation.

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why the hell does anyone think just because most of the drugs are seized at the port of entry that somehow this means that only drugs are going through the ports of entry?

Common sense says of course they're being caught there because that's where law enforcement is.

The drugs that are coming from the border are going through areas where there are no barriers or enforcement.

---

There is enforcement, what are you talking about?

---

If there's enforcement everywhere then how are 2000+ crossing illegally everyday?

---

If there is no enforcement why are so many caught?

---

OK, I see we have to go to basics:

Where there are barriers and enforcement, illegals get caught

Where there are no barriers or law enforcement, illegals are not caught and enter the country.

Building walls costs a lot less than man-hours, and historically is very effective.


Next lesson: addition and subtraction

---

He won't even acknowledge that illegal immigrants cost more than they give back.

---

Of course not: it's not true.

---

An estimated half of the nation's undocumented immigrants are believed to be working under fake Social Security numbers, which means they are paying taxes and into Social Security.

That means at least half are not paying their fair share of taxes. Legally they shouldn't even be here to begin with.

The reason illegal immigrants are unambiguously a net fiscal drain is that less-educated people, native-born or immigrant, earn on average modest wages and as a result they tend to make modest tax contributions, while needing significant social services.

Actual net lifetime fiscal cost of illegal immigrants is likely $125,000 to $135,000 per illegal alien.

---

Nope. Your assuming cradle to grave social costs
First, many migrants are working age. We never had the biggest outlay: public education.
Second, they pay sales and property taxes for, wait for it, public education, among other things.
Third, they'll never collect a dime of those social security benefits. But we will. They are keeping SS afloat for a few extra years.
Four, the cyclical flow of labor means that many return home to start families, etc. before they reach the age when they become a drain on healthcare.

The wall, however, interrupts that flow.

---

The wall will not disrupt the flow of legal immigration.
We will pay for their healthcare and their children's education. The property taxes they might pay won't

I hope the wall disrupts illegal migration. That would be its purpose.

---

That purpose causes economic issues as employers can't get workers. And, it causes others to stay when they would have left. Govt interference in the marketplace is for socialists.

---

**** those employers. I don't give a damn.

Make the millions of lazy ass jobless Americans do those jobs by cutting their welfare.

And socialism is when the state controls who gets what and how much they get. This has nothing to do with socialism or statism. There are laws on the books that are being ignored. You are in favor of ignoring those laws.

---

I am in favor of changing those laws. That's what I keep saying.

And using the force of the state to make people do certain jobs is as statist as it gets, comrade.

---

You want the state to recognize illegals as citizens so that you can get them to do certain jobs.

By your own definition, you are the statist.