Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why the hell does anyone think just because most of the drugs are seized at the port of entry that somehow this means that only drugs are going through the ports of entry?

Common sense says of course they're being caught there because that's where law enforcement is.

The drugs that are coming from the border are going through areas where there are no barriers or enforcement.

---

There is enforcement, what are you talking about?

---

If there's enforcement everywhere then how are 2000+ crossing illegally everyday?

---

If there is no enforcement why are so many caught?

---

OK, I see we have to go to basics:

Where there are barriers and enforcement, illegals get caught

Where there are no barriers or law enforcement, illegals are not caught and enter the country.

Building walls costs a lot less than man-hours, and historically is very effective.


Next lesson: addition and subtraction

---

He won't even acknowledge that illegal immigrants cost more than they give back.

---

Of course not: it's not true.

---

An estimated half of the nation's undocumented immigrants are believed to be working under fake Social Security numbers, which means they are paying taxes and into Social Security.

That means at least half are not paying their fair share of taxes. Legally they shouldn't even be here to begin with.

The reason illegal immigrants are unambiguously a net fiscal drain is that less-educated people, native-born or immigrant, earn on average modest wages and as a result they tend to make modest tax contributions, while needing significant social services.

Actual net lifetime fiscal cost of illegal immigrants is likely $125,000 to $135,000 per illegal alien.

---

Nope. Your assuming cradle to grave social costs
First, many migrants are working age. We never had the biggest outlay: public education.
Second, they pay sales and property taxes for, wait for it, public education, among other things.
Third, they'll never collect a dime of those social security benefits. But we will. They are keeping SS afloat for a few extra years.
Four, the cyclical flow of labor means that many return home to start families, etc. before they reach the age when they become a drain on healthcare.

The wall, however, interrupts that flow.

---

The wall will not disrupt the flow of legal immigration.
We will pay for their healthcare and their children's education. The property taxes they might pay won't

I hope the wall disrupts illegal migration. That would be its purpose.

---

That purpose causes economic issues as employers can't get workers. And, it causes others to stay when they would have left. Govt interference in the marketplace is for socialists.

---

**** those employers. I don't give a damn.

Make the millions of lazy ass jobless Americans do those jobs by cutting their welfare.

And socialism is when the state controls who gets what and how much they get. This has nothing to do with socialism or statism. There are laws on the books that are being ignored. You are in favor of ignoring those laws.

---

I am in favor of changing those laws. That's what I keep saying.

And using the force of the state to make people do certain jobs is as statist as it gets, comrade.

---

You want the state to recognize illegals as citizens so that you can get them to do certain jobs.

By your own definition, you are the statist.

---

No. As I have said I want the state to allow employers and workers to freely contract. The state is there to provide a mechanism of enforcement of contracts, the court system. And I have never advocated for making them citizens, just legal foreign workers. They'd pay more taxes to your state, should make you happy.

A 'service economy' backed by unlimited cheap third world labor

What could possibly go wrong?



Poor *******s should have learned to code

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Why the hell does anyone think just because most of the drugs are seized at the port of entry that somehow this means that only drugs are going through the ports of entry?

Common sense says of course they're being caught there because that's where law enforcement is.

The drugs that are coming from the border are going through areas where there are no barriers or enforcement.

---

There is enforcement, what are you talking about?

---

If there's enforcement everywhere then how are 2000+ crossing illegally everyday?

---

If there is no enforcement why are so many caught?

---

OK, I see we have to go to basics:

Where there are barriers and enforcement, illegals get caught

Where there are no barriers or law enforcement, illegals are not caught and enter the country.

Building walls costs a lot less than man-hours, and historically is very effective.


Next lesson: addition and subtraction

---

He won't even acknowledge that illegal immigrants cost more than they give back.

---

Of course not: it's not true.

---

An estimated half of the nation's undocumented immigrants are believed to be working under fake Social Security numbers, which means they are paying taxes and into Social Security.

That means at least half are not paying their fair share of taxes. Legally they shouldn't even be here to begin with.

The reason illegal immigrants are unambiguously a net fiscal drain is that less-educated people, native-born or immigrant, earn on average modest wages and as a result they tend to make modest tax contributions, while needing significant social services.

Actual net lifetime fiscal cost of illegal immigrants is likely $125,000 to $135,000 per illegal alien.

---

Nope. Your assuming cradle to grave social costs
First, many migrants are working age. We never had the biggest outlay: public education.
Second, they pay sales and property taxes for, wait for it, public education, among other things.
Third, they'll never collect a dime of those social security benefits. But we will. They are keeping SS afloat for a few extra years.
Four, the cyclical flow of labor means that many return home to start families, etc. before they reach the age when they become a drain on healthcare.

The wall, however, interrupts that flow.

---

The wall will not disrupt the flow of legal immigration.
We will pay for their healthcare and their children's education. The property taxes they might pay won't

I hope the wall disrupts illegal migration. That would be its purpose.

---

That purpose causes economic issues as employers can't get workers. And, it causes others to stay when they would have left. Govt interference in the marketplace is for socialists.

---

**** those employers. I don't give a damn.

Make the millions of lazy ass jobless Americans do those jobs by cutting their welfare.

And socialism is when the state controls who gets what and how much they get. This has nothing to do with socialism or statism. There are laws on the books that are being ignored. You are in favor of ignoring those laws.

---

I am in favor of changing those laws. That's what I keep saying.

And using the force of the state to make people do certain jobs is as statist as it gets, comrade.

---

You want the state to recognize illegals as citizens so that you can get them to do certain jobs.

By your own definition, you are the statist.

---

No. As I have said I want the state to allow employers and workers to freely contract. The state is there to provide a mechanism of enforcement of contracts, the court system. And I have never advocated for making them citizens, just legal foreign workers. They'd pay more taxes to your state, should make you happy.

---

We already have this with VISA's!?

Earth to quash...we're talking about 2000+ crossing the border every single day. We don't know their names, where they came from, their individual intentions. Not all of them are here to work. Some are here to leach. To sell drugs, to traffic children for sex, to fulfill MS-13 criminality.

I want the wall to aid in preventing the previous.

We can talk about immigration reform after we enforce the laws that are already on the books.

I'm especially concerned when Democrats are proposing the elimination of ICE and borders.

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

---

Why not? What we have been doing is a failure. It would be less costly to enforce with less violence. For those that have to have hard drugs, make them available in a controlled regulated environment. Have Narcan available for possible ODs. Provide clean needles, counseling and assistance or those who want to get off of drugs. Europe has had success with legalization where it was tried. Legalization is successful in Portugal, and drug use has declined significantly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

---

Why not? What we have been doing is a failure. It would be less costly to enforce with less violence. For those that have to have hard drugs, make them available in a controlled regulated environment. Have Narcan available for possible ODs. Provide clean needles, counseling and assistance or those who want to get off of drugs. Europe has had success with legalization where it was tried. Legalization is successful in Portugal, and drug use has declined significantly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

---

No offense ...but you are out of your mind .

Legalize heroin, crack cocaine, meth and quaaludes and death rates would skyrocket from their current high levels.

Hospitalization costs would be staggering .

Destruction upon families incalculable.

In what field is your scientific research ?

BTW in Portugal consumption of heroin and cocaine has risen since it was legalized. ' modestly '

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

---

Why not? What we have been doing is a failure. It would be less costly to enforce with less violence. For those that have to have hard drugs, make them available in a controlled regulated environment. Have Narcan available for possible ODs. Provide clean needles, counseling and assistance or those who want to get off of drugs. Europe has had success with legalization where it was tried. Legalization is successful in Portugal, and drug use has declined significantly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

---

No offense ...but you are out of your mind .

Legalize heroin, crack cocaine, meth and quaaludes and death rates would skyrocket from their current high levels.

Hospitalization costs would be staggering .

Destruction upon families incalculable.

In what field is your scientific research ?

BTW in Portugal consumption of heroin and cocaine has risen since it was legalized. ' modestly '

---

I don't think so. I think it would lead to less use, and less costs. I don't think it would cost any more than the current war on drugs, with less deaths. I used to think otherwise, but after a few years of a friend who was a Customs Air Interdiction Pilot, convinced me legalization would be better overall and cheaper than what Customs, Coast Guard, and DEA are unsuccessfully attempting. After listening to him, he convinced me, that what we are doing isn't working, and that our government isn't really serious about stopping drug trafficking. Legalization takes the profit out of it for the criminals.

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

---

Why not? What we have been doing is a failure. It would be less costly to enforce with less violence. For those that have to have hard drugs, make them available in a controlled regulated environment. Have Narcan available for possible ODs. Provide clean needles, counseling and assistance or those who want to get off of drugs. Europe has had success with legalization where it was tried. Legalization is successful in Portugal, and drug use has declined significantly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

---

No offense ...but you are out of your mind .

Legalize heroin, crack cocaine, meth and quaaludes and death rates would skyrocket from their current high levels.

Hospitalization costs would be staggering .

Destruction upon families incalculable.

In what field is your scientific research ?

BTW in Portugal consumption of heroin and cocaine has risen since it was legalized. ' modestly '

---

I don't think so. I think it would lead to less use, and less costs. I don't think it would cost any more than the current war on drugs, with less deaths. I used to think otherwise, but after a few years of a friend who was a Customs Air Interdiction Pilot, convinced me legalization would be better overall and cheaper than what Customs, Coast Guard, and DEA are unsuccessfully attempting. After listening to him, he convinced me, that what we are doing isn't working, and that our government isn't really serious about stopping drug trafficking. Legalization takes the profit out of it for the criminals.

---

Stop for a moment, and think about why those drugs were made illegal in the first place. Cocaine and Heroin were at one time perfectly legal.

There's a damn good reason they were outlawed. Not just in the US but worldwide.

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash is not even trying to make a cogent argument, you know.

Don't feed the troll.

---

The fact that you don't get it is neither cogent nor unusual.

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash is not even trying to make a cogent argument, you know.

Don't feed the troll.

---

The fact that you don't get it is neither cogent nor unusual.

---

I get it, and you know I do. Sucks for you, more and more of us have caught on.

And I notice your latest post is completely void of cogency to the topic, which for you is very much the 'usual' these days.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

---

Why not? What we have been doing is a failure. It would be less costly to enforce with less violence. For those that have to have hard drugs, make them available in a controlled regulated environment. Have Narcan available for possible ODs. Provide clean needles, counseling and assistance or those who want to get off of drugs. Europe has had success with legalization where it was tried. Legalization is successful in Portugal, and drug use has declined significantly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

---

No offense ...but you are out of your mind .

Legalize heroin, crack cocaine, meth and quaaludes and death rates would skyrocket from their current high levels.

Hospitalization costs would be staggering .

Destruction upon families incalculable.

In what field is your scientific research ?

BTW in Portugal consumption of heroin and cocaine has risen since it was legalized. ' modestly '

---

I don't think so. I think it would lead to less use, and less costs. I don't think it would cost any more than the current war on drugs, with less deaths. I used to think otherwise, but after a few years of a friend who was a Customs Air Interdiction Pilot, convinced me legalization would be better overall and cheaper than what Customs, Coast Guard, and DEA are unsuccessfully attempting. After listening to him, he convinced me, that what we are doing isn't working, and that our government isn't really serious about stopping drug trafficking. Legalization takes the profit out of it for the criminals.

---

Stop for a moment, and think about why those drugs were made illegal in the first place. Cocaine and Heroin were at one time perfectly legal.

There's a damn good reason they were outlawed. Not just in the US but worldwide.

---

Heroin is not outlawed worldwide, it is prescribed in many countries, putting the lie to the US and Schedule 1.

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash is not even trying to make a cogent argument, you know.

Don't feed the troll.

---

The fact that you don't get it is neither cogent nor unusual.

---

I get it, and you know I do. Sucks for you, more and more of us have caught on.

And I notice your latest post is completely void of cogency to the topic, which for you is very much the 'usual' these days.

---

The economic impact of our fubared immigration system is right on the topic of a manufactured birder " crisis". Ask a calmer friend to explain it to you.

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

---

Why not? What we have been doing is a failure. It would be less costly to enforce with less violence. For those that have to have hard drugs, make them available in a controlled regulated environment. Have Narcan available for possible ODs. Provide clean needles, counseling and assistance or those who want to get off of drugs. Europe has had success with legalization where it was tried. Legalization is successful in Portugal, and drug use has declined significantly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

---

No offense ...but you are out of your mind .

Legalize heroin, crack cocaine, meth and quaaludes and death rates would skyrocket from their current high levels.

Hospitalization costs would be staggering .

Destruction upon families incalculable.

In what field is your scientific research ?

BTW in Portugal consumption of heroin and cocaine has risen since it was legalized. ' modestly '

---

I don't think so. I think it would lead to less use, and less costs. I don't think it would cost any more than the current war on drugs, with less deaths. I used to think otherwise, but after a few years of a friend who was a Customs Air Interdiction Pilot, convinced me legalization would be better overall and cheaper than what Customs, Coast Guard, and DEA are unsuccessfully attempting. After listening to him, he convinced me, that what we are doing isn't working, and that our government isn't really serious about stopping drug trafficking. Legalization takes the profit out of it for the criminals.

---

Stop for a moment, and think about why those drugs were made illegal in the first place. Cocaine and Heroin were at one time perfectly legal.

There's a damn good reason they were outlawed. Not just in the US but worldwide.

---

Heroin is not outlawed worldwide, it is prescribed in many countries, putting the lie to the US and Schedule 1.

---

Nice duck, but you missed the point. Some countries have un-banned Heroin, but went from being legal in the 1920s to outlawed in every first-world nation.

Again, there is a very good reason for that. Denial is not a good method for working that out.

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash is not even trying to make a cogent argument, you know.

Don't feed the troll.

---

The fact that you don't get it is neither cogent nor unusual.

---

I get it, and you know I do. Sucks for you, more and more of us have caught on.

And I notice your latest post is completely void of cogency to the topic, which for you is very much the 'usual' these days.

---

The economic impact of our fubared immigration system is right on the topic of a manufactured birder " crisis". Ask a calmer friend to explain it to you.

---

Strike, what, 17 or so for you by now, quash. Defaulting to weak insults is not helping your case, either.

Can anyone verify Quash is an Uber driver?

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

---

Why not? What we have been doing is a failure. It would be less costly to enforce with less violence. For those that have to have hard drugs, make them available in a controlled regulated environment. Have Narcan available for possible ODs. Provide clean needles, counseling and assistance or those who want to get off of drugs. Europe has had success with legalization where it was tried. Legalization is successful in Portugal, and drug use has declined significantly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

---

No offense ...but you are out of your mind .

Legalize heroin, crack cocaine, meth and quaaludes and death rates would skyrocket from their current high levels.

Hospitalization costs would be staggering .

Destruction upon families incalculable.

In what field is your scientific research ?

BTW in Portugal consumption of heroin and cocaine has risen since it was legalized. ' modestly '

---

I don't think so. I think it would lead to less use, and less costs. I don't think it would cost any more than the current war on drugs, with less deaths. I used to think otherwise, but after a few years of a friend who was a Customs Air Interdiction Pilot, convinced me legalization would be better overall and cheaper than what Customs, Coast Guard, and DEA are unsuccessfully attempting. After listening to him, he convinced me, that what we are doing isn't working, and that our government isn't really serious about stopping drug trafficking. Legalization takes the profit out of it for the criminals.

---

Stop for a moment, and think about why those drugs were made illegal in the first place. Cocaine and Heroin were at one time perfectly legal.

There's a damn good reason they were outlawed. Not just in the US but worldwide.

---

At that time they were not regulated and controlled in use. I'm not saying legalization is equivalent to wide open usage anywhere. What we have now is worse than what Portugal is experiencing for example.

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

---

Why not? What we have been doing is a failure. It would be less costly to enforce with less violence. For those that have to have hard drugs, make them available in a controlled regulated environment. Have Narcan available for possible ODs. Provide clean needles, counseling and assistance or those who want to get off of drugs. Europe has had success with legalization where it was tried. Legalization is successful in Portugal, and drug use has declined significantly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

---

No offense ...but you are out of your mind .

Legalize heroin, crack cocaine, meth and quaaludes and death rates would skyrocket from their current high levels.

Hospitalization costs would be staggering .

Destruction upon families incalculable.

In what field is your scientific research ?

BTW in Portugal consumption of heroin and cocaine has risen since it was legalized. ' modestly '

---

I don't think so. I think it would lead to less use, and less costs. I don't think it would cost any more than the current war on drugs, with less deaths. I used to think otherwise, but after a few years of a friend who was a Customs Air Interdiction Pilot, convinced me legalization would be better overall and cheaper than what Customs, Coast Guard, and DEA are unsuccessfully attempting. After listening to him, he convinced me, that what we are doing isn't working, and that our government isn't really serious about stopping drug trafficking. Legalization takes the profit out of it for the criminals.

---

Stop for a moment, and think about why those drugs were made illegal in the first place. Cocaine and Heroin were at one time perfectly legal.

There's a damn good reason they were outlawed. Not just in the US but worldwide.

---

Heroin is not outlawed worldwide, it is prescribed in many countries, putting the lie to the US and Schedule 1.

---

Nice duck, but you missed the point. Some countries have un-banned Heroin, but went from being legal in the 1920s to outlawed in every first-world nation.

Again, there is a very good reason for that. Denial is not a good method for working that out.

---

Tou made a claim that heroin is outlawed worldwide. You are wrong. No ducking here, that's your go-to move.

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash is not even trying to make a cogent argument, you know.

Don't feed the troll.

---

The fact that you don't get it is neither cogent nor unusual.

---

I get it, and you know I do. Sucks for you, more and more of us have caught on.

And I notice your latest post is completely void of cogency to the topic, which for you is very much the 'usual' these days.

---

The economic impact of our fubared immigration system is right on the topic of a manufactured birder " crisis". Ask a calmer friend to explain it to you.

---

Strike, what, 17 or so for you by now, quash. Defaulting to weak insults is not helping your case, either.

---

You say that like it means something. You're about to get boring again. Go stalk somebody else, we have important issues to discuss here.

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

---

Why not? What we have been doing is a failure. It would be less costly to enforce with less violence. For those that have to have hard drugs, make them available in a controlled regulated environment. Have Narcan available for possible ODs. Provide clean needles, counseling and assistance or those who want to get off of drugs. Europe has had success with legalization where it was tried. Legalization is successful in Portugal, and drug use has declined significantly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

---

No offense ...but you are out of your mind .

Legalize heroin, crack cocaine, meth and quaaludes and death rates would skyrocket from their current high levels.

Hospitalization costs would be staggering .

Destruction upon families incalculable.

In what field is your scientific research ?

BTW in Portugal consumption of heroin and cocaine has risen since it was legalized. ' modestly '

---

Based on what evidence? What was the death rate from heroin the last time it was legal?

ValhallaBear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Alcohol, in and of itself, is not an addictive substance. It is only addictive to people who are genetically predisposed to addiction

The addictiveness of pot is not settled I think. Pot definitely causes impairment and loss of functionality. The people I know that use pot frequently lose effectiveness at doing life stuff. The other schedule 1 stuff is incredibly addictive to the entire population

---

No substance is more addictive than alcohol or more dangerous to withdraw from using.

Sam Lowry said:

---

ValhallaBear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Alcohol, in and of itself, is not an addictive substance. It is only addictive to people who are genetically predisposed to addiction

The addictiveness of pot is not settled I think. Pot definitely causes impairment and loss of functionality. The people I know that use pot frequently lose effectiveness at doing life stuff. The other schedule 1 stuff is incredibly addictive to the entire population

---

No substance is more addictive than alcohol or more dangerous to withdraw from using.

---

I've heard vodka is similar to heroin and crack

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

---

Why not? What we have been doing is a failure. It would be less costly to enforce with less violence. For those that have to have hard drugs, make them available in a controlled regulated environment. Have Narcan available for possible ODs. Provide clean needles, counseling and assistance or those who want to get off of drugs. Europe has had success with legalization where it was tried. Legalization is successful in Portugal, and drug use has declined significantly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

---

No offense ...but you are out of your mind .

Legalize heroin, crack cocaine, meth and quaaludes and death rates would skyrocket from their current high levels.

Hospitalization costs would be staggering .

Destruction upon families incalculable.

In what field is your scientific research ?

BTW in Portugal consumption of heroin and cocaine has risen since it was legalized. ' modestly '

---

I don't think so. I think it would lead to less use, and less costs. I don't think it would cost any more than the current war on drugs, with less deaths. I used to think otherwise, but after a few years of a friend who was a Customs Air Interdiction Pilot, convinced me legalization would be better overall and cheaper than what Customs, Coast Guard, and DEA are unsuccessfully attempting. After listening to him, he convinced me, that what we are doing isn't working, and that our government isn't really serious about stopping drug trafficking. Legalization takes the profit out of it for the criminals.

---

Stop for a moment, and think about why those drugs were made illegal in the first place. Cocaine and Heroin were at one time perfectly legal.

There's a damn good reason they were outlawed. Not just in the US but worldwide.

---

Heroin is not outlawed worldwide, it is prescribed in many countries, putting the lie to the US and Schedule 1.

---

Nice duck, but you missed the point. Some countries have un-banned Heroin, but went from being legal in the 1920s to outlawed in every first-world nation.

Again, there is a very good reason for that. Denial is not a good method for working that out.

---

Tou made a claim that heroin is outlawed worldwide. You are wrong. No ducking here, that's your go-to move.

---

I said it was outlawed. Some nations were foolish enough to undo that action. And that does not change the fact that you are still hiding from why drugs like heroin and cocaine were outlawed in the first place.

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

---

Why not? What we have been doing is a failure. It would be less costly to enforce with less violence. For those that have to have hard drugs, make them available in a controlled regulated environment. Have Narcan available for possible ODs. Provide clean needles, counseling and assistance or those who want to get off of drugs. Europe has had success with legalization where it was tried. Legalization is successful in Portugal, and drug use has declined significantly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

---

No offense ...but you are out of your mind .

Legalize heroin, crack cocaine, meth and quaaludes and death rates would skyrocket from their current high levels.

Hospitalization costs would be staggering .

Destruction upon families incalculable.

In what field is your scientific research ?

BTW in Portugal consumption of heroin and cocaine has risen since it was legalized. ' modestly '

---

I don't think so. I think it would lead to less use, and less costs. I don't think it would cost any more than the current war on drugs, with less deaths. I used to think otherwise, but after a few years of a friend who was a Customs Air Interdiction Pilot, convinced me legalization would be better overall and cheaper than what Customs, Coast Guard, and DEA are unsuccessfully attempting. After listening to him, he convinced me, that what we are doing isn't working, and that our government isn't really serious about stopping drug trafficking. Legalization takes the profit out of it for the criminals.

---

Stop for a moment, and think about why those drugs were made illegal in the first place. Cocaine and Heroin were at one time perfectly legal.

There's a damn good reason they were outlawed. Not just in the US but worldwide.

---

Heroin is not outlawed worldwide, it is prescribed in many countries, putting the lie to the US and Schedule 1.

---

Nice duck, but you missed the point. Some countries have un-banned Heroin, but went from being legal in the 1920s to outlawed in every first-world nation.

Again, there is a very good reason for that. Denial is not a good method for working that out.

---

Tou made a claim that heroin is outlawed worldwide. You are wrong. No ducking here, that's your go-to move.

---

I said it was outlawed. Some nations were foolish enough to undo that action. And that does not change the fact that you are still hiding from why drugs like heroin and cocaine were outlawed in the first place.

---

They were outlawed in America because we associated them with Chinese people and blacks. Not a particularly great reason IMO.

Sam Lowry said:

---

ValhallaBear said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Alcohol, in and of itself, is not an addictive substance. It is only addictive to people who are genetically predisposed to addiction

The addictiveness of pot is not settled I think. Pot definitely causes impairment and loss of functionality. The people I know that use pot frequently lose effectiveness at doing life stuff. The other schedule 1 stuff is incredibly addictive to the entire population

---

No substance is more addictive than alcohol or more dangerous to withdraw from using.

---

Great post.

It comes down to how one defines dangerous or addictive. If you're looking at real impact, there is no contest. Alcohol is -by FAR- the most addictive substance in America. No chemical has claimed more lives with addiction than alcohol.

And whomever said that "it's only addictive to those with genetic predispositions" is a ****ing moron who doesn't know about addiction OR how genetics works, of course, it came from a white supremacist, so genetics never was their strong point.

The point remains that the current prohibition approach hasn't worked -and arguably has just used American money to enrich bad operators in a black market (buying illicit pot DOES support cartels). I don't know that legalization will work, but it is certainly worthy of study and a good faith effort.

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

---

Why not? What we have been doing is a failure. It would be less costly to enforce with less violence. For those that have to have hard drugs, make them available in a controlled regulated environment. Have Narcan available for possible ODs. Provide clean needles, counseling and assistance or those who want to get off of drugs. Europe has had success with legalization where it was tried. Legalization is successful in Portugal, and drug use has declined significantly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

---

No offense ...but you are out of your mind .

Legalize heroin, crack cocaine, meth and quaaludes and death rates would skyrocket from their current high levels.

Hospitalization costs would be staggering .

Destruction upon families incalculable.

In what field is your scientific research ?

BTW in Portugal consumption of heroin and cocaine has risen since it was legalized. ' modestly '

---

I don't think so. I think it would lead to less use, and less costs. I don't think it would cost any more than the current war on drugs, with less deaths. I used to think otherwise, but after a few years of a friend who was a Customs Air Interdiction Pilot, convinced me legalization would be better overall and cheaper than what Customs, Coast Guard, and DEA are unsuccessfully attempting. After listening to him, he convinced me, that what we are doing isn't working, and that our government isn't really serious about stopping drug trafficking. Legalization takes the profit out of it for the criminals.

---

Stop for a moment, and think about why those drugs were made illegal in the first place. Cocaine and Heroin were at one time perfectly legal.

There's a damn good reason they were outlawed. Not just in the US but worldwide.

---

Heroin is not outlawed worldwide, it is prescribed in many countries, putting the lie to the US and Schedule 1.

---

Nice duck, but you missed the point. Some countries have un-banned Heroin, but went from being legal in the 1920s to outlawed in every first-world nation.

Again, there is a very good reason for that. Denial is not a good method for working that out.

---

Tou made a claim that heroin is outlawed worldwide. You are wrong. No ducking here, that's your go-to move.

---

I said it was outlawed. Some nations were foolish enough to undo that action. And that does not change the fact that you are still hiding from why drugs like heroin and cocaine were outlawed in the first place.

---

Why? The same reasons alcohol was outlawed. The quick response and thought was, make it illegal and the problems go away. The lessons learned during and after Prohibition should be applied to legalizing drugs.

Just prosecute politicians and alphabet orgs that accept payoffs for allowing cartels to buy em off to continue operating

Put all politicians on 24 hour surveylance and audit ALL OF THEM annually

Problem solved

Of course that got JFK killed quickly

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

---

Why not? What we have been doing is a failure. It would be less costly to enforce with less violence. For those that have to have hard drugs, make them available in a controlled regulated environment. Have Narcan available for possible ODs. Provide clean needles, counseling and assistance or those who want to get off of drugs. Europe has had success with legalization where it was tried. Legalization is successful in Portugal, and drug use has declined significantly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

---

No offense ...but you are out of your mind .

Legalize heroin, crack cocaine, meth and quaaludes and death rates would skyrocket from their current high levels.

Hospitalization costs would be staggering .

Destruction upon families incalculable.

In what field is your scientific research ?

BTW in Portugal consumption of heroin and cocaine has risen since it was legalized. ' modestly '

---

I don't think so. I think it would lead to less use, and less costs. I don't think it would cost any more than the current war on drugs, with less deaths. I used to think otherwise, but after a few years of a friend who was a Customs Air Interdiction Pilot, convinced me legalization would be better overall and cheaper than what Customs, Coast Guard, and DEA are unsuccessfully attempting. After listening to him, he convinced me, that what we are doing isn't working, and that our government isn't really serious about stopping drug trafficking. Legalization takes the profit out of it for the criminals.

---

Stop for a moment, and think about why those drugs were made illegal in the first place. Cocaine and Heroin were at one time perfectly legal.

There's a damn good reason they were outlawed. Not just in the US but worldwide.

---

Heroin is not outlawed worldwide, it is prescribed in many countries, putting the lie to the US and Schedule 1.

---

Nice duck, but you missed the point. Some countries have un-banned Heroin, but went from being legal in the 1920s to outlawed in every first-world nation.

Again, there is a very good reason for that. Denial is not a good method for working that out.

---

Tou made a claim that heroin is outlawed worldwide. You are wrong. No ducking here, that's your go-to move.

---

I said it was outlawed. Some nations were foolish enough to undo that action. And that does not change the fact that you are still hiding from why drugs like heroin and cocaine were outlawed in the first place.

---

They were outlawed in America because we associated them with Chinese people and blacks. Not a particularly great reason IMO.

---

No, I think that was the case for marijuana but not heroin and cocaine, especially considering WWI veterans were the first addicts.

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

---

Why not? What we have been doing is a failure. It would be less costly to enforce with less violence. For those that have to have hard drugs, make them available in a controlled regulated environment. Have Narcan available for possible ODs. Provide clean needles, counseling and assistance or those who want to get off of drugs. Europe has had success with legalization where it was tried. Legalization is successful in Portugal, and drug use has declined significantly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

---

No offense ...but you are out of your mind .

Legalize heroin, crack cocaine, meth and quaaludes and death rates would skyrocket from their current high levels.

Hospitalization costs would be staggering .

Destruction upon families incalculable.

In what field is your scientific research ?

BTW in Portugal consumption of heroin and cocaine has risen since it was legalized. ' modestly '

---

I don't think so. I think it would lead to less use, and less costs. I don't think it would cost any more than the current war on drugs, with less deaths. I used to think otherwise, but after a few years of a friend who was a Customs Air Interdiction Pilot, convinced me legalization would be better overall and cheaper than what Customs, Coast Guard, and DEA are unsuccessfully attempting. After listening to him, he convinced me, that what we are doing isn't working, and that our government isn't really serious about stopping drug trafficking. Legalization takes the profit out of it for the criminals.

---

Stop for a moment, and think about why those drugs were made illegal in the first place. Cocaine and Heroin were at one time perfectly legal.

There's a damn good reason they were outlawed. Not just in the US but worldwide.

---

Heroin is not outlawed worldwide, it is prescribed in many countries, putting the lie to the US and Schedule 1.

---

Nice duck, but you missed the point. Some countries have un-banned Heroin, but went from being legal in the 1920s to outlawed in every first-world nation.

Again, there is a very good reason for that. Denial is not a good method for working that out.

---

Tou made a claim that heroin is outlawed worldwide. You are wrong. No ducking here, that's your go-to move.

---

I said it was outlawed. Some nations were foolish enough to undo that action. And that does not change the fact that you are still hiding from why drugs like heroin and cocaine were outlawed in the first place.

---

Why? The same reasons alcohol was outlawed. The quick response and thought was, make it illegal and the problems go away. The lessons learned during and after Prohibition should be applied to legalizing drugs.

---

Awfully empty argument for someone who claims to use the Scientific Method.

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

---

Why not? What we have been doing is a failure. It would be less costly to enforce with less violence. For those that have to have hard drugs, make them available in a controlled regulated environment. Have Narcan available for possible ODs. Provide clean needles, counseling and assistance or those who want to get off of drugs. Europe has had success with legalization where it was tried. Legalization is successful in Portugal, and drug use has declined significantly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

---

No offense ...but you are out of your mind .

Legalize heroin, crack cocaine, meth and quaaludes and death rates would skyrocket from their current high levels.

Hospitalization costs would be staggering .

Destruction upon families incalculable.

In what field is your scientific research ?

BTW in Portugal consumption of heroin and cocaine has risen since it was legalized. ' modestly '

---

I don't think so. I think it would lead to less use, and less costs. I don't think it would cost any more than the current war on drugs, with less deaths. I used to think otherwise, but after a few years of a friend who was a Customs Air Interdiction Pilot, convinced me legalization would be better overall and cheaper than what Customs, Coast Guard, and DEA are unsuccessfully attempting. After listening to him, he convinced me, that what we are doing isn't working, and that our government isn't really serious about stopping drug trafficking. Legalization takes the profit out of it for the criminals.

---

Stop for a moment, and think about why those drugs were made illegal in the first place. Cocaine and Heroin were at one time perfectly legal.

There's a damn good reason they were outlawed. Not just in the US but worldwide.

---

Heroin is not outlawed worldwide, it is prescribed in many countries, putting the lie to the US and Schedule 1.

---

Nice duck, but you missed the point. Some countries have un-banned Heroin, but went from being legal in the 1920s to outlawed in every first-world nation.

Again, there is a very good reason for that. Denial is not a good method for working that out.

---

Tou made a claim that heroin is outlawed worldwide. You are wrong. No ducking here, that's your go-to move.

---

I said it was outlawed. Some nations were foolish enough to undo that action. And that does not change the fact that you are still hiding from why drugs like heroin and cocaine were outlawed in the first place.

---

I'm not hiding. You were wrong. Heroin is a prescription drug outside the US.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

---

Why not? What we have been doing is a failure. It would be less costly to enforce with less violence. For those that have to have hard drugs, make them available in a controlled regulated environment. Have Narcan available for possible ODs. Provide clean needles, counseling and assistance or those who want to get off of drugs. Europe has had success with legalization where it was tried. Legalization is successful in Portugal, and drug use has declined significantly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

---

No offense ...but you are out of your mind .

Legalize heroin, crack cocaine, meth and quaaludes and death rates would skyrocket from their current high levels.

Hospitalization costs would be staggering .

Destruction upon families incalculable.

In what field is your scientific research ?

BTW in Portugal consumption of heroin and cocaine has risen since it was legalized. ' modestly '

---

I don't think so. I think it would lead to less use, and less costs. I don't think it would cost any more than the current war on drugs, with less deaths. I used to think otherwise, but after a few years of a friend who was a Customs Air Interdiction Pilot, convinced me legalization would be better overall and cheaper than what Customs, Coast Guard, and DEA are unsuccessfully attempting. After listening to him, he convinced me, that what we are doing isn't working, and that our government isn't really serious about stopping drug trafficking. Legalization takes the profit out of it for the criminals.

---

Stop for a moment, and think about why those drugs were made illegal in the first place. Cocaine and Heroin were at one time perfectly legal.

There's a damn good reason they were outlawed. Not just in the US but worldwide.

---

Heroin is not outlawed worldwide, it is prescribed in many countries, putting the lie to the US and Schedule 1.

---

Nice duck, but you missed the point. Some countries have un-banned Heroin, but went from being legal in the 1920s to outlawed in every first-world nation.

Again, there is a very good reason for that. Denial is not a good method for working that out.

---

Tou made a claim that heroin is outlawed worldwide. You are wrong. No ducking here, that's your go-to move.

---

I said it was outlawed. Some nations were foolish enough to undo that action. And that does not change the fact that you are still hiding from why drugs like heroin and cocaine were outlawed in the first place.

---

They were outlawed in America because we associated them with Chinese people and blacks. Not a particularly great reason IMO.

---

Exactly. Those opium dens made ez PR.

Florda_mike said:

---

Just prosecute politicians and alphabet orgs that accept payoffs for allowing cartels to buy em off to continue operating

Put all politicians on 24 hour surveylance and audit ALL OF THEM annually

Problem solved

Of course that got JFK killed quickly

---

Yeah, no.

I'm opposed to the surveillance state we already have.

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TS: "We can make it easy for legitimate workers to come here and work and pay taxes."

False premise, No one is arguing against legal immigration, where criminal and medical checks are confirmed.

---

Except it is difficult for many to obtain get their Green Card, or at least it was a few years ago, the last time I experienced it with an employee.

I don't think a wall everywhere there is no physical geographic barrier is needed. I do agree there are some areas where it is needed. I do agree we need more personnel, more and better technology on the border. I also believe legalization and regulation of drugs will eliminate most of the criminal element on the border.

---

Reasonable

Which drugs would you legalize besides pot ?

BTW i was all for legal pot here in Colorado. Now not so sure it was a good idea .

---

Legalize it all, but regulated and taxed. It has been successfully tried in Europe. Provide safe areas for addicts to to addictive drugs who use them, but provide programs to encourage them to get off of drugs and not use them. Those costs, I believe, would be significantly less costly than what we are currently expending on drug interdiction and prison.

I don't think pot is any worse than alcohol, and is probably safer and less addictive.

---

Let me get this straight......

You want to legalize hard drugs like meth, heroin, cocaine, quaaludes and crack ?

---

Why not? What we have been doing is a failure. It would be less costly to enforce with less violence. For those that have to have hard drugs, make them available in a controlled regulated environment. Have Narcan available for possible ODs. Provide clean needles, counseling and assistance or those who want to get off of drugs. Europe has had success with legalization where it was tried. Legalization is successful in Portugal, and drug use has declined significantly.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html

http://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/

---

No offense ...but you are out of your mind .

Legalize heroin, crack cocaine, meth and quaaludes and death rates would skyrocket from their current high levels.

Hospitalization costs would be staggering .

Destruction upon families incalculable.

In what field is your scientific research ?

BTW in Portugal consumption of heroin and cocaine has risen since it was legalized. ' modestly '

---

I don't think so. I think it would lead to less use, and less costs. I don't think it would cost any more than the current war on drugs, with less deaths. I used to think otherwise, but after a few years of a friend who was a Customs Air Interdiction Pilot, convinced me legalization would be better overall and cheaper than what Customs, Coast Guard, and DEA are unsuccessfully attempting. After listening to him, he convinced me, that what we are doing isn't working, and that our government isn't really serious about stopping drug trafficking. Legalization takes the profit out of it for the criminals.

---

Stop for a moment, and think about why those drugs were made illegal in the first place. Cocaine and Heroin were at one time perfectly legal.

There's a damn good reason they were outlawed. Not just in the US but worldwide.

---

Heroin is not outlawed worldwide, it is prescribed in many countries, putting the lie to the US and Schedule 1.

---

Nice duck, but you missed the point. Some countries have un-banned Heroin, but went from being legal in the 1920s to outlawed in every first-world nation.

Again, there is a very good reason for that. Denial is not a good method for working that out.

---

Tou made a claim that heroin is outlawed worldwide. You are wrong. No ducking here, that's your go-to move.

---

I said it was outlawed. Some nations were foolish enough to undo that action. And that does not change the fact that you are still hiding from why drugs like heroin and cocaine were outlawed in the first place.

---

I'm not hiding. You were wrong. Heroin is a prescription drug outside the US.

---

quash still having trouble with 'was' versus 'is'.

quash said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Just prosecute politicians and alphabet orgs that accept payoffs for allowing cartels to buy em off to continue operating

Put all politicians on 24 hour surveylance and audit ALL OF THEM annually

Problem solved

Of course that got JFK killed quickly

---

Yeah, no.

I'm opposed to the surveillance state we already have.

---

If they want to be our employees like a politician is, then they shouldn't steal from us like they are without consequences

They're no different from any other employee stealing from employers and we would be potentially jailed and imprisoned if we caused deaths like politicians accepting drug bribes cause

They're not securing us and that's their responsibility

quash said:

---

Exactly. Those opium dens made ez PR.

---

Here on Earth the 'opium dens' were in Asia, not America.