D. C. Bear said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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D. C. Bear said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

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ATL Bear said:

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quash said:

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ATL Bear said:

---

In the land of the crazies, the strongmen need to prevail for peace. Don't like Qaddafi? Look at Libya now. Assad needs to survive, and Turkey will be important to keep Iraq madness, including the Kurds, in check. It's unpopular because it will involve brutality, but the world needs the brutal actors so the West can feign outrage at tasks they would never stoop to participate in.

And how God awful of a take is it to think about military options against a NATO partner because they are beating up on a tribal rival they've had for decades.

---

Who gets the 50 or so nukes in Turkey?

---

The same people that have them now, us. Or are you buying into the scare tactic to push us into another misguided military action in the region?

---

So you're saying Turkey can have our nukes?

---

Yes, that's exactly what I said.....

---

So you're cool with nuclear proliferation in the Middle East/ North Africa?

---

I think your sarcasm meter may require calibration.

---

I was approaching him for clarification.

Maybe if you didn't see everyone as your enemy, you'd miss out on less.

---

I don't see everyone as my enemy. I have told you this before, but you keep repeating it as though by repeating it you would make it true. You would do well to drop it as it makes you look like an idiot.

---

Yikes. Now who's sarcasm meter is broken?

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Hate to interrupt the discussion about the Kurds, but BrooksBear, you never answered me about the three confirmed times Trump met those guys.

---

BrooksBear? Should I consider your silence as an admission you were wrong or that you flat out lied?

---

I actually did.

But that's okay, guy on the internet ive known for 3 minutes. Do you expect everyone to do homework for you?

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Hate to interrupt the discussion about the Kurds, but BrooksBear, you never answered me about the three confirmed times Trump met those guys.

---

BrooksBear? Should I consider your silence as an admission you were wrong or that you flat out lied?

---

30 seconds on google tells me there are at least 2 known photos of the defendants with Trump Sr, and another photo of a private dinner between the defendants and Trump Jr. Other photos show them with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. Plus they were working with Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, hard to believe Trump wasn't at least aware of their existence.

---

And 30 seconds of thinking rationally (at the most) should tell you that taking photos with someone, especially when you are a celebrity, doesn't necessarily mean you know them, and that Trump won't necessarily know everyone who his son and his lawyer associate with. The claim was made that Trump "lied" about not knowing those two guys, because he "met" with them a "confirmed" three times. I have not seen or read anything about that. Maybe you can help him out on that one. Hey, maybe Trump does know them, maybe he doesn't. But the facts you present don't necessarily prove it was a lie that Trump didn't know them.

---

The amount of slack you're willing to give the President is truly breathtaking.

There are pictures of him at parties. They were exceedingly well connected. They were very close with Trump's personal lawyer, paying for Giuliani to travel around Ukraine manufacturing dirt on his behalf.

What kind of proof would you need?

I'm a lot of things. But I'm not a liar.

Besides, considering your defense of Trump, it would feel like MY statements would be a strange place to start caring about lies.

ATL Bear said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

In the land of the crazies, the strongmen need to prevail for peace. Don't like Qaddafi? Look at Libya now. Assad needs to survive, and Turkey will be important to keep Iraq madness, including the Kurds, in check. It's unpopular because it will involve brutality, but the world needs the brutal actors so the West can feign outrage at tasks they would never stoop to participate in.

And how God awful of a take is it to think about military options against a NATO partner because they are beating up on a tribal rival they've had for decades.

---

Who gets the 50 or so nukes in Turkey?

---

The same people that have them now, us. Or are you buying into the scare tactic to push us into another misguided military action in the region?

---

So you're saying Turkey can have our nukes?

---

Yes, that's exactly what I said.....

---

So you're cool with nuclear proliferation in the Middle East/ North Africa?

---

You think Turkey is going to take our nukes from Incirlik? If you actually believe that, then the last thing you should be advocating is going against them, especially militarily. I happen to be rational enough to understand whether we allow them to beat up the Kurds, or we decide to be tough with them, I'm not worried about them trying to take our nukes.

---

Aaaaand Turkey is using the nukes as hostages.

The. President. Is. Incompetent.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-nuclear-bombs-hostage-syria

BrooksBearLives said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Hate to interrupt the discussion about the Kurds, but BrooksBear, you never answered me about the three confirmed times Trump met those guys.

---

BrooksBear? Should I consider your silence as an admission you were wrong or that you flat out lied?

---

I actually did.

But that's okay, guy on the internet ive known for 3 minutes. Do you expect everyone to do homework for you?

---

You did? Where in this thread did you answer me?

BrooksBearLives said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Hate to interrupt the discussion about the Kurds, but BrooksBear, you never answered me about the three confirmed times Trump met those guys.

---

BrooksBear? Should I consider your silence as an admission you were wrong or that you flat out lied?

---

30 seconds on google tells me there are at least 2 known photos of the defendants with Trump Sr, and another photo of a private dinner between the defendants and Trump Jr. Other photos show them with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. Plus they were working with Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, hard to believe Trump wasn't at least aware of their existence.

---

And 30 seconds of thinking rationally (at the most) should tell you that taking photos with someone, especially when you are a celebrity, doesn't necessarily mean you know them, and that Trump won't necessarily know everyone who his son and his lawyer associate with. The claim was made that Trump "lied" about not knowing those two guys, because he "met" with them a "confirmed" three times. I have not seen or read anything about that. Maybe you can help him out on that one. Hey, maybe Trump does know them, maybe he doesn't. But the facts you present don't necessarily prove it was a lie that Trump didn't know them.

---

The amount of slack you're willing to give the President is truly breathtaking.

There are pictures of him at parties. They were exceedingly well connected. They were very close with Trump's personal lawyer, paying for Giuliani to travel around Ukraine manufacturing dirt on his behalf.

What kind of proof would you need?

I'm a lot of things. But I'm not a liar.

Besides, considering your defense of Trump, it would feel like MY statements would be a strange place to start caring about lies.

---

You don't get it, do you?

This has nothing to do with defending Trump.

You made a claim that you could not source or defend with sound logic. That's all I'm calling out. Like I said, maybe Trump knows those guys more than he is letting on, maybe he doesn't. But the facts you present do NOT prove it, as you claim.

You did a similar thing on another thread, making claims about what was said in the phone transcript between Trump and Ukranian president that was demonstrably false. You seem to consistently be loose with the facts. And when called out on it, you don't answer. All it would take is for you to just say, "I was wrong" and we'd move on, but instead you double down.

This has more to do with your credibility, than anything else.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Hate to interrupt the discussion about the Kurds, but BrooksBear, you never answered me about the three confirmed times Trump met those guys.

---

BrooksBear? Should I consider your silence as an admission you were wrong or that you flat out lied?

---

30 seconds on google tells me there are at least 2 known photos of the defendants with Trump Sr, and another photo of a private dinner between the defendants and Trump Jr. Other photos show them with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. Plus they were working with Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, hard to believe Trump wasn't at least aware of their existence.

---

And 30 seconds of thinking rationally (at the most) should tell you that taking photos with someone, especially when you are a celebrity, doesn't necessarily mean you know them, and that Trump won't necessarily know everyone who his son and his lawyer associate with. The claim was made that Trump "lied" about not knowing those two guys, because he "met" with them a "confirmed" three times. I have not seen or read anything about that. Maybe you can help him out on that one. Hey, maybe Trump does know them, maybe he doesn't. But the facts you present don't necessarily prove it was a lie that Trump didn't know them.

---

The amount of slack you're willing to give the President is truly breathtaking.

There are pictures of him at parties. They were exceedingly well connected. They were very close with Trump's personal lawyer, paying for Giuliani to travel around Ukraine manufacturing dirt on his behalf.

What kind of proof would you need?

I'm a lot of things. But I'm not a liar.

Besides, considering your defense of Trump, it would feel like MY statements would be a strange place to start caring about lies.

---

You don't get it, do you?

This has nothing to do with defending Trump.

You made a claim that you could not source or defend with sound logic. That's all I'm calling out. Like I said, maybe Trump knows those guys more than he is letting on, maybe he doesn't. But the facts you present do NOT prove it, as you claim.

You did a similar thing on another thread, making claims about what was said in the phone transcript between Trump and Ukranian president that was demonstrably false. You seem to consistently be loose with the facts. And when called out on it, you don't answer. All it would take is for you to just say, "I was wrong" and we'd move on, but instead you double down.

This has more to do with your credibility, than anything else.

---

It's been answered twice. If you have a question, do your own homework and prove me wrong.

Quote:

---

It's been answered twice. If you have a question, do your own homework and prove me wrong.

---

Again, where?

BrooksBearLives said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

In the land of the crazies, the strongmen need to prevail for peace. Don't like Qaddafi? Look at Libya now. Assad needs to survive, and Turkey will be important to keep Iraq madness, including the Kurds, in check. It's unpopular because it will involve brutality, but the world needs the brutal actors so the West can feign outrage at tasks they would never stoop to participate in.

And how God awful of a take is it to think about military options against a NATO partner because they are beating up on a tribal rival they've had for decades.

---

Who gets the 50 or so nukes in Turkey?

---

The same people that have them now, us. Or are you buying into the scare tactic to push us into another misguided military action in the region?

---

So you're saying Turkey can have our nukes?

---

Yes, that's exactly what I said.....

---

So you're cool with nuclear proliferation in the Middle East/ North Africa?

---

You think Turkey is going to take our nukes from Incirlik? If you actually believe that, then the last thing you should be advocating is going against them, especially militarily. I happen to be rational enough to understand whether we allow them to beat up the Kurds, or we decide to be tough with them, I'm not worried about them trying to take our nukes.

---

Aaaaand Turkey is using the nukes as hostages.

The. President. Is. Incompetent.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-nuclear-bombs-hostage-syria

---

No, they're not. I love people who live life through headlines, and hot take opinions.

I've tried to rationalize this President every which way I can and I've yet to figure him out. Just when I think he is psycho he manages to drown Biden before the elections even begin.

The truth rarely flows from his lips or his printed materials. Most things that roll off his tongue are not to believed.

For the first and only time I have agreed with Trump, it was this decision to pull out of the ME. We've wasted enough time, money and lives there.

Rest assured there is no alternative from the 12 Democrats who appeared on the debate stage last night. I could live with Amy or Tulsi or Pete but the rest are as looney as Trump. Financial nightmares like the communist Sanders or the Socialist Warren hopefully never get elected. Trump has already broke our financial system and future prosperity so who needs those two?

BrooksBearLives said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Hate to interrupt the discussion about the Kurds, but BrooksBear, you never answered me about the three confirmed times Trump met those guys.

---

BrooksBear? Should I consider your silence as an admission you were wrong or that you flat out lied?

---

30 seconds on google tells me there are at least 2 known photos of the defendants with Trump Sr, and another photo of a private dinner between the defendants and Trump Jr. Other photos show them with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. Plus they were working with Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, hard to believe Trump wasn't at least aware of their existence.

---

And 30 seconds of thinking rationally (at the most) should tell you that taking photos with someone, especially when you are a celebrity, doesn't necessarily mean you know them, and that Trump won't necessarily know everyone who his son and his lawyer associate with. The claim was made that Trump "lied" about not knowing those two guys, because he "met" with them a "confirmed" three times. I have not seen or read anything about that. Maybe you can help him out on that one. Hey, maybe Trump does know them, maybe he doesn't. But the facts you present don't necessarily prove it was a lie that Trump didn't know them.

---

The amount of slack you're willing to give the President is truly breathtaking.

There are pictures of him at parties. They were exceedingly well connected. They were very close with Trump's personal lawyer, paying for Giuliani to travel around Ukraine manufacturing dirt on his behalf.

What kind of proof would you need?

I'm a lot of things. But I'm not a liar.

Besides, considering your defense of Trump, it would feel like MY statements would be a strange place to start caring about lies.

---

once they committed to dt then each ever outrageous lie they had to defend until they are so far out that can't admit they blundered badly. Pride keeps them in lock step with dt.

Waco1947 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Hate to interrupt the discussion about the Kurds, but BrooksBear, you never answered me about the three confirmed times Trump met those guys.

---

BrooksBear? Should I consider your silence as an admission you were wrong or that you flat out lied?

---

30 seconds on google tells me there are at least 2 known photos of the defendants with Trump Sr, and another photo of a private dinner between the defendants and Trump Jr. Other photos show them with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. Plus they were working with Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, hard to believe Trump wasn't at least aware of their existence.

---

And 30 seconds of thinking rationally (at the most) should tell you that taking photos with someone, especially when you are a celebrity, doesn't necessarily mean you know them, and that Trump won't necessarily know everyone who his son and his lawyer associate with. The claim was made that Trump "lied" about not knowing those two guys, because he "met" with them a "confirmed" three times. I have not seen or read anything about that. Maybe you can help him out on that one. Hey, maybe Trump does know them, maybe he doesn't. But the facts you present don't necessarily prove it was a lie that Trump didn't know them.

---

The amount of slack you're willing to give the President is truly breathtaking.

There are pictures of him at parties. They were exceedingly well connected. They were very close with Trump's personal lawyer, paying for Giuliani to travel around Ukraine manufacturing dirt on his behalf.

What kind of proof would you need?

I'm a lot of things. But I'm not a liar.

Besides, considering your defense of Trump, it would feel like MY statements would be a strange place to start caring about lies.

---

once they committed to dt then each ever outrageous lie they had to defend until they are so far out that can't admit they blundered badly. Pride keeps them in lock step with dt.

---

BBL and Waco

What a couple o idiots from Hell

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

I've tried to rationalize this President every which way I can and I've yet to figure him out. Just when I think he is psycho he manages to drown Biden before the elections even begin.

The truth rarely flows from his lips or his printed materials. Most things that roll off his tongue are not to believed.

For the first and only time I have agreed with Trump, it was this decision to pull out of the ME. We've wasted enough time, money and lives there.

Rest assured there is no alternative from the 12 Democrats who appeared on the debate stage last night. I could live with Amy or Tulsi or Pete but the rest are as looney as Trump. Financial nightmares like the communist Sanders or the Socialist Warren hopefully never get elected. Trump has already broke our financial system and future prosperity so who needs those two?

---

Pull out of the middle east? Seriously?

He moved a very small amount of soldiers (which were keeping hundreds of thousands of innocents save from Erdogan) -which is a GREAT ROI, btw, and now people are getting slaughtered, oh and we've lost almost all the ground we made up from ISIS. Great work.

Meanwhile, we've sent 14,000 troops to Saudi Arabia.

Pull out of the Middle East? Trump has only INCREASED numbers between SA and the new Afghanistan surge.

Come on, man.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Quote:

---

It's been answered twice. If you have a question, do your own homework and prove me wrong.

---

Again, where?

---

What's in it for me? What do I get when I do your homework for you? What do I get for educating you on something you can easily do yourself?

I never said I approved sending anyone to Saudi. I hear ya but I'm suddenly in the camp of bring them home from everywhere, including Korea and Japan.

BrooksBearLives said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Quote:

---

It's been answered twice. If you have a question, do your own homework and prove me wrong.

---

Again, where?

---

What's in it for me? What do I get when I do your homework for you? What do I get for educating you on something you can easily do yourself?

---

What's in it for you to answer the simple question of where you answered me, twice?

Your credibility, that's what.

In the time you've taken to avoid the question, you could have easily answered it.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

I never said I approved sending anyone to Saudi. I hear ya but I'm suddenly in the camp of bring them home from everywhere, including Korea and Japan.

---

Yes.

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

I never said I approved sending anyone to Saudi. I hear ya but I'm suddenly in the camp of bring them home from everywhere, including Korea and Japan.

---

We're doing the opposite. And Trump is full of ***** He didn't do this to bring them home. He did this because he got bullied around by Erdogan. Pure and simple.

Trump doesnt care about a few troops stationed in Syria as a trip-wire against Turkish aggression.

He got ****ing ROLLED by a better, more powerful negotiator because he's a feckless wimp. He's just incredibly incompetent. That's it.

We are NOT pulling out our troops, we're expanding them. Don't let yourself be lied to. Sam would have you think the Kurds were our enemies fighting our... enemies... who have now turned to our... enemies for help? Sam would say THIS IS ALL SANE but we know it's not. It's what happens when you elect a psychopath fail son reality star with a daddy complex run your country because you really hate that you couldn't get rid of Bill Clinton, so you hate his wife even more.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Quote:

---

It's been answered twice. If you have a question, do your own homework and prove me wrong.

---

Again, where?

---

What's in it for me? What do I get when I do your homework for you? What do I get for educating you on something you can easily do yourself?

---

What's in it for you to answer the simple question of where you answered me, twice?

Your credibility, that's what.

In the time you've taken to avoid the question, you could have easily answered it.

---

Boring. Put something in it for me. I'll put to at least 3 times these guys met with the Trumps.

My credibility with a guy who pretends to care more about the veracity of an internet poster's comments than the venom our President spits out on the daily... let's just say I don't have a lot of faith in your ability to discern facts when you see them.

BrooksBearLives said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Quote:

---

It's been answered twice. If you have a question, do your own homework and prove me wrong.

---

Again, where?

---

What's in it for me? What do I get when I do your homework for you? What do I get for educating you on something you can easily do yourself?

---

What's in it for you to answer the simple question of where you answered me, twice?

Your credibility, that's what.

In the time you've taken to avoid the question, you could have easily answered it.

---

Boring. Put something in it for me. I'll put to at least 3 times these guys met with the Trumps.

My credibility with a guy who pretends to care more about the veracity of an internet poster's comments than the venom our President spits out on the daily... let's just say I don't have a lot of faith in your ability to discern facts when you see them.

---

Oh, so here we go, the guy who's been called out, but still refuses to answer, now resorting to ad hominem attacks.

So, yet another comment you took the time to post, but still fail to answer me.

Credibility meter..... winding down.....

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Quote:

---

It's been answered twice. If you have a question, do your own homework and prove me wrong.

---

Again, where?

---

What's in it for me? What do I get when I do your homework for you? What do I get for educating you on something you can easily do yourself?

---

What's in it for you to answer the simple question of where you answered me, twice?

Your credibility, that's what.

In the time you've taken to avoid the question, you could have easily answered it.

---

Trump met with Parnas in 2014
via https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/2014-photograph-shows-earlier-ties-between-trump-and-indicted-giuliani-associate/ar-AAIGJCa


Then again in 2016: Parnas was interviewed by a foreign correspondent at a very small "invite-only" Trump election-night event. He described himself as a good friend who lives close to the President.
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/11/lev-parnas-giuliani-trump-private-party-044698

Parnas and Fruman also run in a lot of circles with other people in the President's orbit, including Felix Sater and other Trump Organization folks. Here's a picture of them with Don Jr.



And then here's the most infamous picture of Parnas with Trump this year. He had just attended a very small, private dinner with the President.


This is all on top of the fact that Parnas goes to the Doral with Trump is in town AND they are extremely close with Giuliani. There's at least three pictures of them with the Trump Family. But given Parnas and Fruman's spending the last couple of years on Republican candidates, it isn't straining any credulity to see there's more.

That's 3 instances of him meeting Trump/being in small intimate settings with Trump and 1 of him meeting with Don Jr. as well as multiple connections with other people in Trump's orbit.

Can we move on to you pretending to care about other things, now?

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

I never said I approved sending anyone to Saudi. I hear ya but I'm suddenly in the camp of bring them home from everywhere, including Korea and Japan.

---

We're doing the opposite. And Trump is full of ***** He didn't do this to bring them home. He did this because he got bullied around by Erdogan. Pure and simple.

Trump doesnt care about a few troops stationed in Syria as a trip-wire against Turkish aggression.

He got ****ing ROLLED by a better, more powerful negotiator because he's a feckless wimp. He's just incredibly incompetent. That's it.

We are NOT pulling out our troops, we're expanding them. Don't let yourself be lied to. Sam would have you think the Kurds were our enemies fighting our... enemies... who have now turned to our... enemies for help? Sam would say THIS IS ALL SANE but we know it's not. It's what happens when you elect a psychopath fail son reality star with a daddy complex run your country because you really hate that you couldn't get rid of Bill Clinton, so you hate his wife even more.

---

Uhhh, this happens ALL. THE. TIME. in the middle east.

Say hi to the mujahideen in Afghanistan who we armed and trained (many of whom transformed to the Taliban we now fight today). Or the Taliban itself that we indirectly supported through Pakistan in the 90's because we viewed the Taliban as anti-Iranian, so hey, we should help them. Or about 50 other examples in the last half century.

The ME is an absolute quagmire. The "innocents" you pound your chest about us needing to protect become next year's biggest enemy. New regimes, warlords, Islamist movements, etc spring up out of nowhere and you never know which one to support or stomp down until it's too late. Meanwhile they've all got our guns and our military training to attack us with. It is utterly ridiculous that we spend millions and risk countless American lives in that madness. GTFO and let them kill each other all they want. Protect oil interests and Israel (our ally that is surrounded and whom numerous Islamic nations and groups vow to wipe off the face of the earth) and that is IT.

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

I never said I approved sending anyone to Saudi. I hear ya but I'm suddenly in the camp of bring them home from everywhere, including Korea and Japan.

---

We're doing the opposite. And Trump is full of ***** He didn't do this to bring them home. He did this because he got bullied around by Erdogan. Pure and simple.

Trump doesnt care about a few troops stationed in Syria as a trip-wire against Turkish aggression.

He got ****ing ROLLED by a better, more powerful negotiator because he's a feckless wimp. He's just incredibly incompetent. That's it.

We are NOT pulling out our troops, we're expanding them. Don't let yourself be lied to. Sam would have you think the Kurds were our enemies fighting our... enemies... who have now turned to our... enemies for help? Sam would say THIS IS ALL SANE but we know it's not. It's what happens when you elect a psychopath fail son reality star with a daddy complex run your country because you really hate that you couldn't get rid of Bill Clinton, so you hate his wife even more.

---

Uhhh, this happens ALL. THE. TIME. in the middle east.

Say hi to the mujahideen in Afghanistan who we armed and trained (many of whom transformed to the Taliban we now fight today). Or the Taliban itself that we indirectly supported through Pakistan in the 90's because we viewed the Taliban as anti-Iranian, so hey, we should help them. Or about 50 other examples in the last half century.

The ME is an absolute quagmire. The "innocents" you pound your chest about us needing to protect become next year's biggest enemy. New regimes, warlords, Islamist movements, etc spring up out of nowhere and you never know which one to support or stomp down until it's too late. Meanwhile they've all got our guns and our military training to attack us with. It is utterly ridiculous that we spend millions and risk countless American lives in that madness. GTFO and let them kill each other all they want. Protect oil interests and Israel (our ally that is surrounded and whom numerous Islamic nations and groups vow to wipe off the face of the earth) and that is IT.

---

Either you don't know anything about the Kurds, or you're just plain lying. Do some research at non-partisan sources and get back to me.

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

I never said I approved sending anyone to Saudi. I hear ya but I'm suddenly in the camp of bring them home from everywhere, including Korea and Japan.

---

We're doing the opposite. And Trump is full of ***** He didn't do this to bring them home. He did this because he got bullied around by Erdogan. Pure and simple.

Trump doesnt care about a few troops stationed in Syria as a trip-wire against Turkish aggression.

He got ****ing ROLLED by a better, more powerful negotiator because he's a feckless wimp. He's just incredibly incompetent. That's it.

We are NOT pulling out our troops, we're expanding them. Don't let yourself be lied to. Sam would have you think the Kurds were our enemies fighting our... enemies... who have now turned to our... enemies for help? Sam would say THIS IS ALL SANE but we know it's not. It's what happens when you elect a psychopath fail son reality star with a daddy complex run your country because you really hate that you couldn't get rid of Bill Clinton, so you hate his wife even more.

---

Uhhh, this happens ALL. THE. TIME. in the middle east.

Say hi to the mujahideen in Afghanistan who we armed and trained (many of whom transformed to the Taliban we now fight today). Or the Taliban itself that we indirectly supported through Pakistan in the 90's because we viewed the Taliban as anti-Iranian, so hey, we should help them. Or about 50 other examples in the last half century.

The ME is an absolute quagmire. The "innocents" you pound your chest about us needing to protect become next year's biggest enemy. New regimes, warlords, Islamist movements, etc spring up out of nowhere and you never know which one to support or stomp down until it's too late. Meanwhile they've all got our guns and our military training to attack us with. It is utterly ridiculous that we spend millions and risk countless American lives in that madness. GTFO and let them kill each other all they want. Protect oil interests and Israel (our ally that is surrounded and whom numerous Islamic nations and groups vow to wipe off the face of the earth) and that is IT.

---

I understand that Trump is destroying our weapons so our enemies won't get them. Needless to say, outrage is in the air.

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

I never said I approved sending anyone to Saudi. I hear ya but I'm suddenly in the camp of bring them home from everywhere, including Korea and Japan.

---

We're doing the opposite. And Trump is full of ***** He didn't do this to bring them home. He did this because he got bullied around by Erdogan. Pure and simple.

Trump doesnt care about a few troops stationed in Syria as a trip-wire against Turkish aggression.

He got ****ing ROLLED by a better, more powerful negotiator because he's a feckless wimp. He's just incredibly incompetent. That's it.

We are NOT pulling out our troops, we're expanding them. Don't let yourself be lied to. Sam would have you think the Kurds were our enemies fighting our... enemies... who have now turned to our... enemies for help? Sam would say THIS IS ALL SANE but we know it's not. It's what happens when you elect a psychopath fail son reality star with a daddy complex run your country because you really hate that you couldn't get rid of Bill Clinton, so you hate his wife even more.

---

Uhhh, this happens ALL. THE. TIME. in the middle east.

Say hi to the mujahideen in Afghanistan who we armed and trained (many of whom transformed to the Taliban we now fight today). Or the Taliban itself that we indirectly supported through Pakistan in the 90's because we viewed the Taliban as anti-Iranian, so hey, we should help them. Or about 50 other examples in the last half century.

The ME is an absolute quagmire. The "innocents" you pound your chest about us needing to protect become next year's biggest enemy. New regimes, warlords, Islamist movements, etc spring up out of nowhere and you never know which one to support or stomp down until it's too late. Meanwhile they've all got our guns and our military training to attack us with. It is utterly ridiculous that we spend millions and risk countless American lives in that madness. GTFO and let them kill each other all they want. Protect oil interests and Israel (our ally that is surrounded and whom numerous Islamic nations and groups vow to wipe off the face of the earth) and that is IT.

---

Either you don't know anything about the Kurds, or you're just plain lying. Do some research at non-partisan sources and get back to me.

---

Maybe you have trouble reading, but earlier in the thread I said I agreed with you in principle about the Kurds. But that's just for today. I have no idea what that looks like 20 years from now. You would have said the same thing about the "freedom fighters" in Afghanistan in the 80's. They all claim to want/need our help against "oppression." I'm just not interested anymore. Settle it amongst yourselves. You're a bunch of different sects of the same religion trying to kill each other and take each other's land. It's warlord-ville. Get our kids and our money out of there.

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

I never said I approved sending anyone to Saudi. I hear ya but I'm suddenly in the camp of bring them home from everywhere, including Korea and Japan.

---

We're doing the opposite. And Trump is full of ***** He didn't do this to bring them home. He did this because he got bullied around by Erdogan. Pure and simple.

Trump doesnt care about a few troops stationed in Syria as a trip-wire against Turkish aggression.

He got ****ing ROLLED by a better, more powerful negotiator because he's a feckless wimp. He's just incredibly incompetent. That's it.

We are NOT pulling out our troops, we're expanding them. Don't let yourself be lied to. Sam would have you think the Kurds were our enemies fighting our... enemies... who have now turned to our... enemies for help? Sam would say THIS IS ALL SANE but we know it's not. It's what happens when you elect a psychopath fail son reality star with a daddy complex run your country because you really hate that you couldn't get rid of Bill Clinton, so you hate his wife even more.

---

Uhhh, this happens ALL. THE. TIME. in the middle east.

Say hi to the mujahideen in Afghanistan who we armed and trained (many of whom transformed to the Taliban we now fight today). Or the Taliban itself that we indirectly supported through Pakistan in the 90's because we viewed the Taliban as anti-Iranian, so hey, we should help them. Or about 50 other examples in the last half century.

The ME is an absolute quagmire. The "innocents" you pound your chest about us needing to protect become next year's biggest enemy. New regimes, warlords, Islamist movements, etc spring up out of nowhere and you never know which one to support or stomp down until it's too late. Meanwhile they've all got our guns and our military training to attack us with. It is utterly ridiculous that we spend millions and risk countless American lives in that madness. GTFO and let them kill each other all they want. Protect oil interests and Israel (our ally that is surrounded and whom numerous Islamic nations and groups vow to wipe off the face of the earth) and that is IT.

---

Either you don't know anything about the Kurds, or you're just plain lying. Do some research at non-partisan sources and get back to me.

---

Maybe you have trouble reading, but earlier in the thread I said I agreed with you in principle about the Kurds. But that's just for today. I have no idea what that looks like 20 years from now. You would have said the same thing about the "freedom fighters" in Afghanistan in the 80's. They all claim to want/need our help against "oppression." I'm just not interested anymore. Settle it amongst yourselves. You're a bunch of different sects of the same religion trying to kill each other and take each other's land. It's warlord-ville. Get our kids and our money out of there.

---

Amen brother

Long overdue

Glad I haven't lost a family member over overrated and highly publicized "nation building!"

BrooksBearLives said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Quote:

---

It's been answered twice. If you have a question, do your own homework and prove me wrong.

---

Again, where?

---

What's in it for me? What do I get when I do your homework for you? What do I get for educating you on something you can easily do yourself?

---

What's in it for you to answer the simple question of where you answered me, twice?

Your credibility, that's what.

In the time you've taken to avoid the question, you could have easily answered it.

---

Trump met with Parnas in 2014
via https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/2014-photograph-shows-earlier-ties-between-trump-and-indicted-giuliani-associate/ar-AAIGJCa


Then again in 2016: Parnas was interviewed by a foreign correspondent at a very small "invite-only" Trump election-night event. He described himself as a good friend who lives close to the President.

Parnas and Fruman also run in a lot of circles with other people in the President's orbit, including Felix Sater and other Trump Organization folks. Here's a picture of them with Don Jr.



And then here's the most infamous picture of Parnas with Trump this year.


This is all on top of the fact that Parnas goes to the Doral with Trump is in town AND they are extremely close with Giuliani. There's at least three pictures of them with the Trump Family. But given Parnas and Fruman's spending the last couple of years on Republican candidates, it isn't straining any credulity to see there's more.

Can we move on to you pretending to care about other things, now?

---

You seem to have lost track of the discussion- reread my comment to which you are responding. You claimed to have answered me twice, and I asked when and where on the thread. You never answered me, you just stalled. Your comment here is not answering that.

Now, you are finally attempting to answer the original question from earlier, As I have said, and as is obvious to anyone, Trump taking photos with someone doesn't really prove he knows them, or even that he "met" with them. Photos of them with Trump Jr., or their close ties to Giuliani doesn't prove that Trump knows them either. So how do these photos "prove" that what Trump said, that he didn't know them, is a lie? That was your claim. (By the way, you cited three confirmed times they "met"- I only see two photos with Trump. Also, the fact that you changed your claim from "meeting Trump" to "meeting the Trump(s) has not escaped notice)

What is interesting, though, is that you claim that Parnas "described himself as a good friend who lives close to the President." Good friend of whom? Trump? Can you cite where he said this?

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

I never said I approved sending anyone to Saudi. I hear ya but I'm suddenly in the camp of bring them home from everywhere, including Korea and Japan.

---

We're doing the opposite. And Trump is full of ***** He didn't do this to bring them home. He did this because he got bullied around by Erdogan. Pure and simple.

Trump doesnt care about a few troops stationed in Syria as a trip-wire against Turkish aggression.

He got ****ing ROLLED by a better, more powerful negotiator because he's a feckless wimp. He's just incredibly incompetent. That's it.

We are NOT pulling out our troops, we're expanding them. Don't let yourself be lied to. Sam would have you think the Kurds were our enemies fighting our... enemies... who have now turned to our... enemies for help? Sam would say THIS IS ALL SANE but we know it's not. It's what happens when you elect a psychopath fail son reality star with a daddy complex run your country because you really hate that you couldn't get rid of Bill Clinton, so you hate his wife even more.

---

Uhhh, this happens ALL. THE. TIME. in the middle east.

Say hi to the mujahideen in Afghanistan who we armed and trained (many of whom transformed to the Taliban we now fight today). Or the Taliban itself that we indirectly supported through Pakistan in the 90's because we viewed the Taliban as anti-Iranian, so hey, we should help them. Or about 50 other examples in the last half century.

The ME is an absolute quagmire. The "innocents" you pound your chest about us needing to protect become next year's biggest enemy. New regimes, warlords, Islamist movements, etc spring up out of nowhere and you never know which one to support or stomp down until it's too late. Meanwhile they've all got our guns and our military training to attack us with. It is utterly ridiculous that we spend millions and risk countless American lives in that madness. GTFO and let them kill each other all they want. Protect oil interests and Israel (our ally that is surrounded and whom numerous Islamic nations and groups vow to wipe off the face of the earth) and that is IT.

---

Either you don't know anything about the Kurds, or you're just plain lying. Do some research at non-partisan sources and get back to me.

---

Maybe you have trouble reading, but earlier in the thread I said I agreed with you in principle about the Kurds. But that's just for today. I have no idea what that looks like 20 years from now. You would have said the same thing about the "freedom fighters" in Afghanistan in the 80's. They all claim to want/need our help against "oppression." I'm just not interested anymore. Settle it amongst yourselves. You're a bunch of different sects of the same religion trying to kill each other and take each other's land. It's warlord-ville. Get our kids and our money out of there.

---

Yeah. Your entire argument about how genocide of the Kurds is okay is because they're just going to end up being warlords next.

If you knew anything bout the Kurds -and I've only taken to educating myself about them the last year or so (a former employee/mentee of mine has worked in Kurdistan for the last 4 years) - you wouldn't think that of them. They've been screwed over since apportionment and STILL stayed mostly good and pro-Democratic. When HW Bush encouraged Iraqis to rise up against Saddam, they actually did -and we left them out to dry- and they were SLAUGHTERED. And they STILL stayed our allies in Syria.

But on an even more basic level, abandoning our allies and failing to support the good actors only MAKES THE WORLD MORE DANGEROUS FOR US.

Look only at the formation of ISIS or Al Queda. 150 troops in Syria was a GREAT investment in keeping isis at bay.

BrooksBearLives said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

In the land of the crazies, the strongmen need to prevail for peace. Don't like Qaddafi? Look at Libya now. Assad needs to survive, and Turkey will be important to keep Iraq madness, including the Kurds, in check. It's unpopular because it will involve brutality, but the world needs the brutal actors so the West can feign outrage at tasks they would never stoop to participate in.

And how God awful of a take is it to think about military options against a NATO partner because they are beating up on a tribal rival they've had for decades.

---

Who gets the 50 or so nukes in Turkey?

---

The same people that have them now, us. Or are you buying into the scare tactic to push us into another misguided military action in the region?

---

So you're saying Turkey can have our nukes?

---

Yes, that's exactly what I said.....

---

So you're cool with nuclear proliferation in the Middle East/ North Africa?

---

You think Turkey is going to take our nukes from Incirlik? If you actually believe that, then the last thing you should be advocating is going against them, especially militarily. I happen to be rational enough to understand whether we allow them to beat up the Kurds, or we decide to be tough with them, I'm not worried about them trying to take our nukes.

---

Aaaaand Turkey is using the nukes as hostages.

The. President. Is. Incompetent.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-nuclear-bombs-hostage-syria

---

And. Yet. Still. Better. Than. Any. Idiot. The. Dems. Had. On. Stage. Tuesday. Night.

curtpenn said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

In the land of the crazies, the strongmen need to prevail for peace. Don't like Qaddafi? Look at Libya now. Assad needs to survive, and Turkey will be important to keep Iraq madness, including the Kurds, in check. It's unpopular because it will involve brutality, but the world needs the brutal actors so the West can feign outrage at tasks they would never stoop to participate in.

And how God awful of a take is it to think about military options against a NATO partner because they are beating up on a tribal rival they've had for decades.

---

Who gets the 50 or so nukes in Turkey?

---

The same people that have them now, us. Or are you buying into the scare tactic to push us into another misguided military action in the region?

---

So you're saying Turkey can have our nukes?

---

Yes, that's exactly what I said.....

---

So you're cool with nuclear proliferation in the Middle East/ North Africa?

---

You think Turkey is going to take our nukes from Incirlik? If you actually believe that, then the last thing you should be advocating is going against them, especially militarily. I happen to be rational enough to understand whether we allow them to beat up the Kurds, or we decide to be tough with them, I'm not worried about them trying to take our nukes.

---

Aaaaand Turkey is using the nukes as hostages.

The. President. Is. Incompetent.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-nuclear-bombs-hostage-syria

---

And. Yet. Still. Better. Than. Any. Idiot. The. Dems. Had. On. Stage. Tuesday. Night.

---

Which of them are guilty of real estate/tax fraud?

You can keep saying that, Curt. But at some point, you'll need to prove it. He is literally the worst president of all time.

BrooksBearLives said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

In the land of the crazies, the strongmen need to prevail for peace. Don't like Qaddafi? Look at Libya now. Assad needs to survive, and Turkey will be important to keep Iraq madness, including the Kurds, in check. It's unpopular because it will involve brutality, but the world needs the brutal actors so the West can feign outrage at tasks they would never stoop to participate in.

And how God awful of a take is it to think about military options against a NATO partner because they are beating up on a tribal rival they've had for decades.

---

Who gets the 50 or so nukes in Turkey?

---

The same people that have them now, us. Or are you buying into the scare tactic to push us into another misguided military action in the region?

---

So you're saying Turkey can have our nukes?

---

Yes, that's exactly what I said.....

---

So you're cool with nuclear proliferation in the Middle East/ North Africa?

---

You think Turkey is going to take our nukes from Incirlik? If you actually believe that, then the last thing you should be advocating is going against them, especially militarily. I happen to be rational enough to understand whether we allow them to beat up the Kurds, or we decide to be tough with them, I'm not worried about them trying to take our nukes.

---

Aaaaand Turkey is using the nukes as hostages.

The. President. Is. Incompetent.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-nuclear-bombs-hostage-syria

---

And. Yet. Still. Better. Than. Any. Idiot. The. Dems. Had. On. Stage. Tuesday. Night.

---

Which of them are guilty of real estate/tax fraud?

You can keep saying that, Curt. But at some point, you'll need to prove it. He is literally the worst president of all time.

---

Why?

Because your government jobs are drying up so you had to go back to being a professional student racking up more college debt and your wife and boyfriend can't stand you're unemployed ass?

BrooksBearLives said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

In the land of the crazies, the strongmen need to prevail for peace. Don't like Qaddafi? Look at Libya now. Assad needs to survive, and Turkey will be important to keep Iraq madness, including the Kurds, in check. It's unpopular because it will involve brutality, but the world needs the brutal actors so the West can feign outrage at tasks they would never stoop to participate in.

And how God awful of a take is it to think about military options against a NATO partner because they are beating up on a tribal rival they've had for decades.

---

Who gets the 50 or so nukes in Turkey?

---

The same people that have them now, us. Or are you buying into the scare tactic to push us into another misguided military action in the region?

---

So you're saying Turkey can have our nukes?

---

Yes, that's exactly what I said.....

---

So you're cool with nuclear proliferation in the Middle East/ North Africa?

---

You think Turkey is going to take our nukes from Incirlik? If you actually believe that, then the last thing you should be advocating is going against them, especially militarily. I happen to be rational enough to understand whether we allow them to beat up the Kurds, or we decide to be tough with them, I'm not worried about them trying to take our nukes.

---

Aaaaand Turkey is using the nukes as hostages.

The. President. Is. Incompetent.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-nuclear-bombs-hostage-syria

---

And. Yet. Still. Better. Than. Any. Idiot. The. Dems. Had. On. Stage. Tuesday. Night.

---

Which of them are guilty of real estate/tax fraud?

You can keep saying that, Curt. But at some point, you'll need to prove it. He is literally the worst president of all time.

---

It pleases me that Trump provides so much fodder for your weird obsession. Guess it's easier for you to rant about Trump than come to grips with the Dem platform that spells the death of our republic.

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

bearassnekkid said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

I never said I approved sending anyone to Saudi. I hear ya but I'm suddenly in the camp of bring them home from everywhere, including Korea and Japan.

---

We're doing the opposite. And Trump is full of ***** He didn't do this to bring them home. He did this because he got bullied around by Erdogan. Pure and simple.

Trump doesnt care about a few troops stationed in Syria as a trip-wire against Turkish aggression.

He got ****ing ROLLED by a better, more powerful negotiator because he's a feckless wimp. He's just incredibly incompetent. That's it.

We are NOT pulling out our troops, we're expanding them. Don't let yourself be lied to. Sam would have you think the Kurds were our enemies fighting our... enemies... who have now turned to our... enemies for help? Sam would say THIS IS ALL SANE but we know it's not. It's what happens when you elect a psychopath fail son reality star with a daddy complex run your country because you really hate that you couldn't get rid of Bill Clinton, so you hate his wife even more.

---

Uhhh, this happens ALL. THE. TIME. in the middle east.

Say hi to the mujahideen in Afghanistan who we armed and trained (many of whom transformed to the Taliban we now fight today). Or the Taliban itself that we indirectly supported through Pakistan in the 90's because we viewed the Taliban as anti-Iranian, so hey, we should help them. Or about 50 other examples in the last half century.

The ME is an absolute quagmire. The "innocents" you pound your chest about us needing to protect become next year's biggest enemy. New regimes, warlords, Islamist movements, etc spring up out of nowhere and you never know which one to support or stomp down until it's too late. Meanwhile they've all got our guns and our military training to attack us with. It is utterly ridiculous that we spend millions and risk countless American lives in that madness. GTFO and let them kill each other all they want. Protect oil interests and Israel (our ally that is surrounded and whom numerous Islamic nations and groups vow to wipe off the face of the earth) and that is IT.

---

Either you don't know anything about the Kurds, or you're just plain lying. Do some research at non-partisan sources and get back to me.

---

Maybe you have trouble reading, but earlier in the thread I said I agreed with you in principle about the Kurds. But that's just for today. I have no idea what that looks like 20 years from now. You would have said the same thing about the "freedom fighters" in Afghanistan in the 80's. They all claim to want/need our help against "oppression." I'm just not interested anymore. Settle it amongst yourselves. You're a bunch of different sects of the same religion trying to kill each other and take each other's land. It's warlord-ville. Get our kids and our money out of there.

---

Yeah. Your entire argument about how genocide of the Kurds is okay is because they're just going to end up being warlords next.

If you knew anything bout the Kurds -and I've only taken to educating myself about them the last year or so (a former employee/mentee of mine has worked in Kurdistan for the last 4 years) - you wouldn't think that of them. They've been screwed over since apportionment and STILL stayed mostly good and pro-Democratic. When HW Bush encouraged Iraqis to rise up against Saddam, they actually did -and we left them out to dry- and they were SLAUGHTERED. And they STILL stayed our allies in Syria.

But on an even more basic level, abandoning our allies and failing to support the good actors only MAKES THE WORLD MORE DANGEROUS FOR US.

Look only at the formation of ISIS or Al Queda. 150 troops in Syria was a GREAT investment in keeping isis at bay.

---

Are you referring to post Iraq War apportionment? As far as the Kurds, they aren't "good actors" any more than the Saudis are. They simply have objectives from time to time that align with ours. They aligned with us against Saddam, but ironically they aligned with Iran in the Iran-Iraq War. They are aligning in Syria (fighting ISIS and Syrian militias) for the sole purpose of staking claim to Rojava. And don't look into the PKK in Turkey if we're looking for "good actors".

The pragmatic reality is that the one entity in all of this that has some actual long term value continues to be Turkey. But letting the crazies work it out for themselves is without question the best approach because we won't solve decades or century old beefs in that quagmire. You'd think we'd have learned that by now.