Jinx 2 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

quash said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Doesn't matter when the alternative is any current Democrat. Why is this simple truth so hard for some to grasp? Don't have to like the guy or be on board with everything he does to understand that he's the only alternative to the lunacy of the Social Democrats.

---

How ****ed up are you willing to let the country get before you look for another option? $44 trillion? 88?

---

Quash, seriously, the ONLY time national debt is an issue for most Republicans is when a Democrat is president. THEN they start complaining about the deficit.

I didn't hear a bloody PEEP when Bush was borrowing from the Chinese and going to war on the credit cards and back-door drafting military personnel (very few of whom were college grads, so the crowd of mostly Baylor alums posting back then and their children would have been unaffected). Because he lowered taxes at the same time. So their tax bills went down.

That is literally ALL they care about. Kicking the can down the road to the next president / next generation = not their problem. It's an ant / grasshopper conundrum. Republicans claim to be ants, but they are fiscal grasshoppers.

---

I know about 2 dozen Baylor grads that willfully went to war. That's a disgusting misrepresentation. Shame on you

---

I'm bettng they were in the reserve and not back-door drafted.

---

When you sign up, your commitment is for, if I recall, eight years. If they are recalled to active service, that is what service members signed up for, not a "back door draft." It is a serious commitment which service members are well aware of when they enlist. I have a friend in the Marines who talked about this when he signed up straight out of high school.

fadskier said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump can do anything he wants as long as he didn't abort any kids on the way to the White House.
-Baylor Evangelicals 2019

---

It's not been proven yet that he has done anything other than help this economy, give me a tax break and curb immigration.

---

Most people's taxes went up. He's helped blow up the stock market with his tariff talks. He's working on the wall but the money has stalled after it was getting taken from necessary projects the military wanted to keep.

---

My taxes went up.

---

and you're mad?

---

Only about what Trump wants to spend tax dollars on--building a wall and maintaining a gulag.

Jinx 2 said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump can do anything he wants as long as he didn't abort any kids on the way to the White House.
-Baylor Evangelicals 2019

---

It's not been proven yet that he has done anything other than help this economy, give me a tax break and curb immigration.

---

Most people's taxes went up. He's helped blow up the stock market with his tariff talks. He's working on the wall but the money has stalled after it was getting taken from necessary projects the military wanted to keep.

---

My taxes went up.

---

That's the idea of lower taxes

It stimulates the economy, everyone makes more money and everyone pays more taxes

Be thankful Jinx, you're making more money, that's why you're paying more taxes

Enjoy life, live a little!

Booray said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump can do anything he wants as long as he didn't abort any kids on the way to the White House.
-Baylor Evangelicals 2019

---

It's not been proven yet that he has done anything other than help this economy, give me a tax break and curb immigration.

---

Most people's taxes went up. He's helped blow up the stock market with his tariff talks. He's working on the wall but the money has stalled after it was getting taken from necessary projects the military wanted to keep.

---

80% saw a reduction in taxes;

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/18/stock-markets-value-under-trump-has-grown-by-6-point-9-trillion-to-30-point-6-trillion.html

I'll give you the one on the wall.

---

That is the wrong link. The article talks about the spectacular stock market under DJT as of Jan. 2018. didn't age all that great.

---

The stock market goes up and down...doesn't stay at the top. Good grief.

Jinx 2 said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Democracy is over rated because of its over dependence on the quality of the demos. Biden and Kerry are up to their eyeballs in corruption, but pay no attention to that. Those of you in thrall to the party of neo-serfdom just can't stand individual liberty and will use any pretext to destroy our republic.

---

"Democracy is over-rated"???

This from the same poster who claims the DEMOCRATS are fascists?

And this post got 5 approval stars on a forum where most people purport to be Christians and good, freedom loving Americans and huff and puff about unlimited gun rights? (I guess some freedoms have more value than others.)

I can understand that you oppose some or even all of the policy positions Democrats generally support.

But the idea that "democracy is overrated" because a majority of Americans might not vote for the candidates and policies you support, and that this therefore justifies the sort of behavior Trump enaged it--using federal aid dollars (and don't you guys generally oppose foreign aid?) as leverage to get a foreign government to investigate a U.S. citizen realted to a political opponent--is downright Soviet.

And YOU are accusing the DEMOCRATS of being socialists and fascists?

Would you also support the institution of a gulag into which Trump could disappear his political enemies?

You certainly supported the institution of a gular into which refugee kids were disappeared.

---

Gulags and refugee kids were begun under Obama. At least be truthful in your rants...

---

YOU and your boys certainly didn't give Obama credit.

He did put people in detection, He didn't separate parents from their children and then lose some of them in the foster care system. Nor did he detain children in circumstances so awful they represent a human rights violation, without adequate foot, supplies like diapers, and adult supervision, so that older kids were trying to care for younger kids.

---

Neither did this administration. They have plenty of supplies. That's on record. and people who break laws are separated every day from their children...it's called consequences.

fadskier said:

---

Booray said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump can do anything he wants as long as he didn't abort any kids on the way to the White House.
-Baylor Evangelicals 2019

---

It's not been proven yet that he has done anything other than help this economy, give me a tax break and curb immigration.

---

Most people's taxes went up. He's helped blow up the stock market with his tariff talks. He's working on the wall but the money has stalled after it was getting taken from necessary projects the military wanted to keep.

---

80% saw a reduction in taxes;

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/18/stock-markets-value-under-trump-has-grown-by-6-point-9-trillion-to-30-point-6-trillion.html

I'll give you the one on the wall.

---

That is the wrong link. The article talks about the spectacular stock market under DJT as of Jan. 2018. didn't age all that great.

---

The stock market goes up and down...doesn't stay at the top. Good grief.

---

Leftists know nothing of anything economic

Democrats, the party of anti-Capitalism

Florda_mike said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Booray said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump can do anything he wants as long as he didn't abort any kids on the way to the White House.
-Baylor Evangelicals 2019

---

It's not been proven yet that he has done anything other than help this economy, give me a tax break and curb immigration.

---

Most people's taxes went up. He's helped blow up the stock market with his tariff talks. He's working on the wall but the money has stalled after it was getting taken from necessary projects the military wanted to keep.

---

80% saw a reduction in taxes;

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/18/stock-markets-value-under-trump-has-grown-by-6-point-9-trillion-to-30-point-6-trillion.html

I'll give you the one on the wall.

---

That is the wrong link. The article talks about the spectacular stock market under DJT as of Jan. 2018. didn't age all that great.

---

The stock market goes up and down...doesn't stay at the top. Good grief.

---

Leftists know nothing of anything economic

Democrats, the party of anti-Capitalism

---

They expected Mexico to write a check and they expect the stock market to keep rising...they also believed Blasey-Ford

SMDH

D. C. Bear said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

quash said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Doesn't matter when the alternative is any current Democrat. Why is this simple truth so hard for some to grasp? Don't have to like the guy or be on board with everything he does to understand that he's the only alternative to the lunacy of the Social Democrats.

---

How ****ed up are you willing to let the country get before you look for another option? $44 trillion? 88?

---

Quash, seriously, the ONLY time national debt is an issue for most Republicans is when a Democrat is president. THEN they start complaining about the deficit.

I didn't hear a bloody PEEP when Bush was borrowing from the Chinese and going to war on the credit cards and back-door drafting military personnel (very few of whom were college grads, so the crowd of mostly Baylor alums posting back then and their children would have been unaffected). Because he lowered taxes at the same time. So their tax bills went down.

That is literally ALL they care about. Kicking the can down the road to the next president / next generation = not their problem. It's an ant / grasshopper conundrum. Republicans claim to be ants, but they are fiscal grasshoppers.

---

I know about 2 dozen Baylor grads that willfully went to war. That's a disgusting misrepresentation. Shame on you

---

I'm bettng they were in the reserve and not back-door drafted.

---

When you sign up, your commitment is for, if I recall, eight years. If they are recalled to active service, that is what service members signed up for, not a "back door draft." It is a serious commitment which service members are well aware of when they enlist. I have a friend in the Marines who talked about this when he signed up straight out of high school.

---

True, but these people were told by recruiters than there was very little chance of thsi happening.

Wonder if recruiters are still saying that.

For the record, I think every American should do at least 2 years of national service, Military would be one option, but vocational training--aides in Medicaid nursing homes and public school classrooms, learning construction skills and helping to maintain roads and public buildings, forestry skills to help maintain public lands--there are all sorts of options.

fadskier said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Booray said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump can do anything he wants as long as he didn't abort any kids on the way to the White House.
-Baylor Evangelicals 2019

---

It's not been proven yet that he has done anything other than help this economy, give me a tax break and curb immigration.

---

Most people's taxes went up. He's helped blow up the stock market with his tariff talks. He's working on the wall but the money has stalled after it was getting taken from necessary projects the military wanted to keep.

---

80% saw a reduction in taxes;

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/18/stock-markets-value-under-trump-has-grown-by-6-point-9-trillion-to-30-point-6-trillion.html

I'll give you the one on the wall.

---

That is the wrong link. The article talks about the spectacular stock market under DJT as of Jan. 2018. didn't age all that great.

---

The stock market goes up and down...doesn't stay at the top. Good grief.

---

Leftists know nothing of anything economic

Democrats, the party of anti-Capitalism

---

They expected Mexico to write a check and they expect the stock market to keep rising...they also believed Blasey-Ford

SMDH

---

No, we expected people not to vote in a president who obviously blieved his campaign schtick enough that he , thought he culd bully the Mexican president into making good on it) and then brag about ithe fact that Trump lied and got his base to chant the lie throughout his campaign and then claim the real dupes are people who expect presidents to keep the promises they make. Which, in this case, was "I'm going to build a wall and Mexcio is going to pay for it."

What you're basically saying is that it doesn't matter if Trump lies, is dishonest,is corrupt or if he has any understaniding of or respect for the constitution he has sworn to uphold and defend as long as you agree with his agenda.

How vigorously do you think Trump's supporters will defend what you view as his right to flout the rule of law?

Who should be subject to the rule of law--anyone? How about the whistleblower?

Jinx 2 said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Booray said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump can do anything he wants as long as he didn't abort any kids on the way to the White House.
-Baylor Evangelicals 2019

---

It's not been proven yet that he has done anything other than help this economy, give me a tax break and curb immigration.

---

Most people's taxes went up. He's helped blow up the stock market with his tariff talks. He's working on the wall but the money has stalled after it was getting taken from necessary projects the military wanted to keep.

---

80% saw a reduction in taxes;

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/18/stock-markets-value-under-trump-has-grown-by-6-point-9-trillion-to-30-point-6-trillion.html

I'll give you the one on the wall.

---

That is the wrong link. The article talks about the spectacular stock market under DJT as of Jan. 2018. didn't age all that great.

---

The stock market goes up and down...doesn't stay at the top. Good grief.

---

Leftists know nothing of anything economic

Democrats, the party of anti-Capitalism

---

They expected Mexico to write a check and they expect the stock market to keep rising...they also believed Blasey-Ford

SMDH

---

No, we expected people not to vote in a president who obviously blieved his campaign schtick enough that he , ithought he culd bully the Mexican president into making good on it) and then brag about ithe fact that Trump lied and got his base to chant the lie throughout his campaign and then claim the real dupes are those who expects presidents to keep the promises they make. Which, in this case, was "I'm going to build a wall and Mexcio is going to pay for it."

What you're basically saying is that it doesn't matter if Trump lies, is dishonest,is corrupt or if he has any understaniding of or respect for the constitution he has sworn to uphold and defend as long as you agree with his agenda.

How vigorously do you think Trump's supporters will defend what you view as his right to flout the rule of law? Who should be subject to the rule of law--anyone?

---

1. I voted for Trump because of Hillary (how many times is this now?)
2. I didn't expect Mexico to pay for it with a check
3. You are inferring that he lied...that his intent was to deceive...I have no evidence of that.
4. Define what you mean by flout the rule of rule and provide examples. Not sure I understand what you mean on this...you use the phrase alot

fadskier said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Florda_mike said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Booray said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump can do anything he wants as long as he didn't abort any kids on the way to the White House.
-Baylor Evangelicals 2019

---

It's not been proven yet that he has done anything other than help this economy, give me a tax break and curb immigration.

---

Most people's taxes went up. He's helped blow up the stock market with his tariff talks. He's working on the wall but the money has stalled after it was getting taken from necessary projects the military wanted to keep.

---

80% saw a reduction in taxes;

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/18/stock-markets-value-under-trump-has-grown-by-6-point-9-trillion-to-30-point-6-trillion.html

I'll give you the one on the wall.

---

That is the wrong link. The article talks about the spectacular stock market under DJT as of Jan. 2018. didn't age all that great.

---

The stock market goes up and down...doesn't stay at the top. Good grief.

---

Leftists know nothing of anything economic

Democrats, the party of anti-Capitalism

---

They expected Mexico to write a check and they expect the stock market to keep rising...they also believed Blasey-Ford

SMDH

---

No, we expected people not to vote in a president who obviously blieved his campaign schtick enough that he , ithought he culd bully the Mexican president into making good on it) and then brag about ithe fact that Trump lied and got his base to chant the lie throughout his campaign and then claim the real dupes are those who expects presidents to keep the promises they make. Which, in this case, was "I'm going to build a wall and Mexcio is going to pay for it."

What you're basically saying is that it doesn't matter if Trump lies, is dishonest,is corrupt or if he has any understaniding of or respect for the constitution he has sworn to uphold and defend as long as you agree with his agenda.

How vigorously do you think Trump's supporters will defend what you view as his right to flout the rule of law? Who should be subject to the rule of law--anyone?

---

1. I voted for Trump because of Hillary (how many times is this now?)
2. I didn't expect Mexico to pay for it with a check
3. You are inferring that he lied...that his intent was to deceive...I have no evidence of that.
4. Define what you mean by flout the rule of rule and provide examples. Not sure I understand what you mean on this...you use the phrase alot

---

1. Me too
2. I expect Mexico will never pay for the wall. Nevertheless, it should be built
3. Trump lied about balancing the budget, lowering taxes and retiring the national debt in 8 years. We are i a state of full employment and economic expansion and we're adding $1 trillion a year to the debt.
4. no comment

Jinx 2 said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

No, we expected people not to vote in a president who obviously blieved his campaign schtick enough that he , ithought he culd bully the Mexican president into making good on it) and then brag about ithe fact that Trump lied and got his base to chant the lie throughout his campaign and then claim the real dupes are those who expects presidents to keep the promises they make. Which, in this case, was "I'm going to build a wall and Mexcio is going to pay for it."

What you're basically saying is that it doesn't matter if Trump lies, is dishonest,is corrupt or if he has any understaniding of or respect for the constitution he has sworn to uphold and defend as long as you agree with his agenda.

How vigorously do you think Trump's supporters will defend what you view as his right to flout the rule of law? Who should be subject to the rule of law--anyone?

---

1. I voted for Trump because of Hillary (how many times is this now?)
2. I didn't expect Mexico to pay for it with a check
3. You are inferring that he lied...that his intent was to deceive...I have no evidence of that.
4. Define what you mean by flout the rule of rule and provide examples. Not sure I understand what you mean on this...you use the phrase alot

---

Cuz Hillary is a really poor excuse for voting for a corrupt pol who lied throughout his campaign and then tried to pretend he won the popular vote when he didn't, that his inaugation was attended by hordes of fans when it wasn't, has lost all of his competent aides and cabinet members either because they didn't fellate his ego enough or becuase they left to avoid commiting a crime on his orders, and is trying to use his office and the taxpayers' money like a crime boss to pressure foreign leaders to do his dirty work.

There were plenty of other optons. You could have written in Mickey Mouse and voted for a better candidate than Trump.

And, after he was elected, you and your GOP leaders could have tried to hold him responsible for repsecting the constitution and rule rule of law, but instead, you enabled him.

And now, you're scuttling around like roaches under a searchlight.

---

I didn't see Trump as corrupt at all...but we knew Hillary was and I wasn't throwing away my vote by writing something stupid in. I've never heard him say he won the popular vote and I believe that his inauguration was the most watched in history, which because it was streamed online, is not that hard of a concept to grasp.

How has he not respected the constitution or rule of law? Can you not provide examples?

I'm not scurrying. I'm right here. Not ashamed that I voted for him.

Booray said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Democracy is over rated because of its over dependence on the quality of the demos. Biden and Kerry are up to their eyeballs in corruption, but pay no attention to that. Those of you in thrall to the party of neo-serfdom just can't stand individual liberty and will use any pretext to destroy our republic.

---

"Democracy is over-rated"???

This from the same poster who claims the DEMOCRATS are fascists?

And this post got 5 approval stars on a forum where most people purport to be Christians and good, freedom loving Americans and huff and puff about unlimited gun rights? (I guess some freedoms have more value than others.)

I can understand that you oppose some or even all of the policy positions Democrats generally support.

But the idea that "democracy is overrated" because a majority of Americans might not vote for the candidates and policies you support, and that this therefore justifies the sort of behavior Trump enaged it--using federal aid dollars (and don't you guys generally oppose foreign aid?) as leverage to get a foreign government to investigate a U.S. citizen realted to a political opponent--is downright Soviet.

And YOU are accusing the DEMOCRATS of being socialists and fascists?

Would you also support the institution of a gulag into which Trump could disappear his political enemies?

You certainly supported the institution of a gular into which refugee kids were disappeared.

---

Perhaps you're confused as to the difference between a democracy and a representative republic, but I could be wrong. (But I'm not)

---

You are wrong. There is not a "difference." A representative republic is a type of democracy.

---

True. But it is not a true democracy.

Jinx 2 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

quash said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Doesn't matter when the alternative is any current Democrat. Why is this simple truth so hard for some to grasp? Don't have to like the guy or be on board with everything he does to understand that he's the only alternative to the lunacy of the Social Democrats.

---

How ****ed up are you willing to let the country get before you look for another option? $44 trillion? 88?

---

Quash, seriously, the ONLY time national debt is an issue for most Republicans is when a Democrat is president. THEN they start complaining about the deficit.

I didn't hear a bloody PEEP when Bush was borrowing from the Chinese and going to war on the credit cards and back-door drafting military personnel (very few of whom were college grads, so the crowd of mostly Baylor alums posting back then and their children would have been unaffected). Because he lowered taxes at the same time. So their tax bills went down.

That is literally ALL they care about. Kicking the can down the road to the next president / next generation = not their problem. It's an ant / grasshopper conundrum. Republicans claim to be ants, but they are fiscal grasshoppers.

---

I know about 2 dozen Baylor grads that willfully went to war. That's a disgusting misrepresentation. Shame on you

---

I'm bettng they were in the reserve and not back-door drafted.

---

A few were "back door drafted". A few were reserves. Vast majority volunteered.

xiledinok said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump can do anything he wants as long as he didn't abort any kids on the way to the White House.
-Baylor Evangelicals 2019

---

It's not been proven yet that he has done anything other than help this economy, give me a tax break and curb immigration.

---

Most people's taxes went up. He's helped blow up the stock market with his tariff talks. He's working on the wall but the money has stalled after it was getting taken from necessary projects the military wanted to keep.

---

The stock market is less than 3% from all-time highs.

trey3216 said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

quash said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Doesn't matter when the alternative is any current Democrat. Why is this simple truth so hard for some to grasp? Don't have to like the guy or be on board with everything he does to understand that he's the only alternative to the lunacy of the Social Democrats.

---

How ****ed up are you willing to let the country get before you look for another option? $44 trillion? 88?

---

Quash, seriously, the ONLY time national debt is an issue for most Republicans is when a Democrat is president. THEN they start complaining about the deficit.

I didn't hear a bloody PEEP when Bush was borrowing from the Chinese and going to war on the credit cards and back-door drafting military personnel (very few of whom were college grads, so the crowd of mostly Baylor alums posting back then and their children would have been unaffected). Because he lowered taxes at the same time. So their tax bills went down.

That is literally ALL they care about. Kicking the can down the road to the next president / next generation = not their problem. It's an ant / grasshopper conundrum. Republicans claim to be ants, but they are fiscal grasshoppers.

---

I know about 2 dozen Baylor grads that willfully went to war. That's a disgusting misrepresentation. Shame on you

---

I'm bettng they were in the reserve and not back-door drafted.

---

A few were "back door drafted". A few were reserves. Vast majority volunteered.

---

40% of those deployed to Iraq were reserves, according to this report, which addresses issues created by the military's reliance on reservists during the Iraq war. Reservists--most of whom are older, with jobs and families, thus bore a heavy burden for our decision to go to war with the wrong government. (I find it particularly ironic that we're now helping to defend the Saudis, whose role in 9-11 has been covered up.

The U.S. had about 1 million people eligible to be called up either as reservists or people who served but hadn't satisfied the 8-year requirement and were thus subject to recall. It turns out counting on reservists to deploy for a long time in an actual war is a bad idea, because when people realize you can be back-door drafted with no end in sight, they won't sign up for the reserves:. Here's an excerpt:

WILL OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM LEAD TO THE DEMISE OF THE RESERVES?

Operation Iraqi Freedom is redefining the role of the reserves in the U.S. military force structure as radically as did the Vietnam War. The role of the reserve components has been changed from a force in reserve to one of full participation in overseas operations, involving unexpected (and unexpectedly long) deployments. These deployments entail family separations (sometimes repeatedly); "stop-loss" policies that prevent people from leaving service on schedule; reassignments among units; and involuntary occupational reclassifications.

The strain of these deployments and policies has begun to take its toll on the reserves. In the face of discussions about even longer and more frequent call-ups of reservists to support operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, Lt. Gen. Ron Helmly, the chief of the Army Reserve, sent a memo to other Army leaders on Dec. 20, 2004, saying that his force of 200,000 reservists "is rapidly degenerating into a broken force."3 Thus far in 2005, the Army National Guard is missing its recruiting objectives by one-third, and the Army Reserve is doing only slightly better. Just as the Vietnam War contributed to the end of conscription, the Iraq War may presage the demiseor another major redefinition of the roleof the citizen-soldiers of the reserves.

trey3216 said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump can do anything he wants as long as he didn't abort any kids on the way to the White House.
-Baylor Evangelicals 2019

---

It's not been proven yet that he has done anything other than help this economy, give me a tax break and curb immigration.

---

Most people's taxes went up. He's helped blow up the stock market with his tariff talks. He's working on the wall but the money has stalled after it was getting taken from necessary projects the military wanted to keep.

---

The stock market is less than 3% from all-time highs.

---

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/25/upshot/trump-impeach-financial-economic-effect.html

cinque said:

---

fadskier said:

---

PS - and he's still better than Hillary

---

In what way?

---

He has a ***** and the kind of hair these guys see in the pulpit every Sunday.

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump can do anything he wants as long as he didn't abort any kids on the way to the White House.
-Baylor Evangelicals 2019

---

It's not been proven yet that he has done anything other than help this economy, give me a tax break and curb immigration.

---

Honest question: what kind of proof would you accept?

---

Well let's see....are you going to

half-quote the famous Charlottesville quote?
misquote what he said about Mexican illegals?
insert Russian coorperation into the 2016 election?
bring up Blasey-Ford?
quote the Access Hollywood tape from 12 years ago?

I mean honestly, you people flip out about everything, scream that the sky is falling, and only look at sources that side with what you want to believe so, take your best shot.

Just understand this...I am not a "pro-Trumper at any cost." He has flaws...everyone does. I'm not the type to get worked up about it. The economy is doing well..as a middle-classer, I got more of my own money due to the tax cuts AND Hillary Clinton is not getting to appoint any SC judges.

I vote Pro-Life and small government.

---

Soooo you didn't list any proof you WOULD accept.

Is that your answer? None?

---

How can I accept something that I am not sure exists until I see it?

Let's start with things that have been proven...not anything that uses "anonymous" sources or "someone close to the situation." After all, that's just speculation.

---

This is a simple thought-experiment that normal humans do all the time.

Just ask yourself this: "what evidence would need to be presented to me before I would believe Trump did what he's been accused of doing?"

Because here are the facts:

1. he withheld money from the Ukraine
2. in the call with the Ukrainians (which the white house admitted was about this funding -Trump said so himself).
3. Trump changed his stories at least twice about WHY he withheld the funding
4. in the summary of the conversation (put together and released by the administration) he clearly asks the Ukrainian government for a favor.
5. that favor was to investigate the person he sees as his biggest competition for reelection.


What would it take for you to admit this happened and that it is bad? Because those are all verifiable FROM the Trump administration.

---

1. Yes he did.
2. So what?
3. I have not seen anything that references that
4.He does...in regard to the 2016 election
5. False. This is where you make the leap. The favor was not tied to Biden. Read the transcript. AND even if he did, why is it wrong for the president to seek help from a country where the previous VP was know to have engaged in possible illegal activity? Why are only Democrats allowed to do that?

You're asking me to connect dots that do not necessarily connect. It takes a leap. I don't leap with facts beneath my feet.

---

2. is informed by 3.
3. There is video proof he changed his story as to why. https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/24/donald-trump-ukraine-military-aid-1509070

And that is REALLY important. Because the fact is that he changed his story AFTER they agreed to release the conversation summary WHICH IS NOT A TRANSCRIPT. And despite what Doc says (he's wrong a lot) the transcript DOES exist. The administration has admitted it put said transcript on a top-secret server WHICH IS NOT DONE FOR ALL TRANSCRIPTS. It's not even done for most. Administration officials have also said it didn't contain defense information or proprietary military plans that would make code-work level. https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/27/politics/donald-trump-ukraine-transcript-white-house/index.html

5. this is NOT false. The administration has admitted the favor was tied to Biden. Look at the call summary.
"Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the_ mayor bf New York Ci:ty, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great."

"There's a lot 6. talk about Biden's son,. that Eiden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great."
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf

So I will ask you again. What proof WOULD you accept that these things happened? You keep saying or alluding to the lack of facts.

These are facts. What more WOULD you believe? The fact that you can't name something is telling me that there is no proof on earth that would make you believe this.

Would Trump have to be caught on camera confirming he did it?
"

---

1. Your politico reference says that he changed his story from withholding due to wanting more Europeans to help to withholding due to corruption within the Ukraine government. It says absolutely nothing about Biden. So that helps my opinion, not yours.

2. Wrong. After two previous conversations between the President and heads of other countries were leaked, all phone transcripts are being kept in a new location...not just that one.

3.I see you quoted the transcript but it does not say anything about the money and, like most libs, you only partly quote. the word favor is tied to the 2016 election interference. IT'S IN THE TRANSCRIPT. You just don't want to believe it. The word favor is actually directly tied to the server and election meddling.

Again, I get that you want so badly for Trump to be guilty, but you can't prove your point. In fact, you've helped mine. Thanks.

---

1. first, he said it was about corruption. THEN he said it was about Germany not doing it's part -which makes NO sense. Ukraine is one of the few areas where Europe has actually led the way monetarily and politically.

2. That is NOT true. Numerous White House sources have said explicitly that not all of these are stored on there, only certain ones. No one will elaborate why (which is okay, because impeachment will bring that all to light). Multiple former White House officials from Republican White Houses have said this is incredibly unusual. This isn't just some private server. It's a server that only 3-5 people in the country have access to.

For reference, in previous administrations, these summaries would be printed out and dropped on tables for reporters. This level of security FOR THESE types of calls is absolutely unprecedented. Please do the homework on this.

3. You do realize that bribes don't have to include money, right? I'm not being sarcastic. You can bribe someone with anything of value. Are you SERIOUSLY saying that dirt on Biden wouldn't have been of value to Trump?

Read the conversation again. He made it 10000% clear what he wanted from the Ukrainians, and he had created leverage (withholding funds and arms) to make them get it. There is a reason the world is losing its mind right now.

contrario said:

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PartyBear said:

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Contrario is a Trumper who pretends not to be and thinks people buy it.

---

Florida Mike and gang have called me a liberal on many occasions. Have you ever been mistakenly called a conservative? I guarantee you haven't and your opinions are predictable. All opinions of binaries on any topic are predictable. Just because I'm middle of the road and want to see all the facts before making an opinion, that doesn't make me a "Trumper". It's what reasonable people do.

Back to my post though before you made an ad hominem attack, why on earth would your day be ruined or made better because of some news about a politician in DC? I stand by my point that if your happiness is dependent on the outcome of the daily partisan news cycle, you have some serious misplaced priorities. Life is much more than partisan politics. That was my point.

---

I have often asked: How does the president affect your daily life? For 98% he doesn't. Which is also my lead in to "vote the whole ballot". I don't understand low turnout: the more local the race, the more it affects you. Vote the ballot, vote your views, and ****ing vote.

BrooksBearLives said:

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fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump can do anything he wants as long as he didn't abort any kids on the way to the White House.
-Baylor Evangelicals 2019

---

It's not been proven yet that he has done anything other than help this economy, give me a tax break and curb immigration.

---

Honest question: what kind of proof would you accept?

---

Well let's see....are you going to

half-quote the famous Charlottesville quote?
misquote what he said about Mexican illegals?
insert Russian coorperation into the 2016 election?
bring up Blasey-Ford?
quote the Access Hollywood tape from 12 years ago?

I mean honestly, you people flip out about everything, scream that the sky is falling, and only look at sources that side with what you want to believe so, take your best shot.

Just understand this...I am not a "pro-Trumper at any cost." He has flaws...everyone does. I'm not the type to get worked up about it. The economy is doing well..as a middle-classer, I got more of my own money due to the tax cuts AND Hillary Clinton is not getting to appoint any SC judges.

I vote Pro-Life and small government.

---

Soooo you didn't list any proof you WOULD accept.

Is that your answer? None?

---

How can I accept something that I am not sure exists until I see it?

Let's start with things that have been proven...not anything that uses "anonymous" sources or "someone close to the situation." After all, that's just speculation.

---

This is a simple thought-experiment that normal humans do all the time.

Just ask yourself this: "what evidence would need to be presented to me before I would believe Trump did what he's been accused of doing?"

Because here are the facts:

1. he withheld money from the Ukraine
2. in the call with the Ukrainians (which the white house admitted was about this funding -Trump said so himself).
3. Trump changed his stories at least twice about WHY he withheld the funding
4. in the summary of the conversation (put together and released by the administration) he clearly asks the Ukrainian government for a favor.
5. that favor was to investigate the person he sees as his biggest competition for reelection.


What would it take for you to admit this happened and that it is bad? Because those are all verifiable FROM the Trump administration.

---

1. Yes he did.
2. So what?
3. I have not seen anything that references that
4.He does...in regard to the 2016 election
5. False. This is where you make the leap. The favor was not tied to Biden. Read the transcript. AND even if he did, why is it wrong for the president to seek help from a country where the previous VP was know to have engaged in possible illegal activity? Why are only Democrats allowed to do that?

You're asking me to connect dots that do not necessarily connect. It takes a leap. I don't leap with facts beneath my feet.

---

2. is informed by 3.
3. There is video proof he changed his story as to why. https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/24/donald-trump-ukraine-military-aid-1509070

And that is REALLY important. Because the fact is that he changed his story AFTER they agreed to release the conversation summary WHICH IS NOT A TRANSCRIPT. And despite what Doc says (he's wrong a lot) the transcript DOES exist. The administration has admitted it put said transcript on a top-secret server WHICH IS NOT DONE FOR ALL TRANSCRIPTS. It's not even done for most. Administration officials have also said it didn't contain defense information or proprietary military plans that would make code-work level. https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/27/politics/donald-trump-ukraine-transcript-white-house/index.html

5. this is NOT false. The administration has admitted the favor was tied to Biden. Look at the call summary.
"Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the_ mayor bf New York Ci:ty, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great."

"There's a lot 6. talk about Biden's son,. that Eiden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great."
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf

So I will ask you again. What proof WOULD you accept that these things happened? You keep saying or alluding to the lack of facts.

These are facts. What more WOULD you believe? The fact that you can't name something is telling me that there is no proof on earth that would make you believe this.

Would Trump have to be caught on camera confirming he did it?
"

---

1. Your politico reference says that he changed his story from withholding due to wanting more Europeans to help to withholding due to corruption within the Ukraine government. It says absolutely nothing about Biden. So that helps my opinion, not yours.

2. Wrong. After two previous conversations between the President and heads of other countries were leaked, all phone transcripts are being kept in a new location...not just that one.

3.I see you quoted the transcript but it does not say anything about the money and, like most libs, you only partly quote. the word favor is tied to the 2016 election interference. IT'S IN THE TRANSCRIPT. You just don't want to believe it. The word favor is actually directly tied to the server and election meddling.

Again, I get that you want so badly for Trump to be guilty, but you can't prove your point. In fact, you've helped mine. Thanks.

---

1. first, he said it was about corruption. THEN he said it was about Germany not doing it's part -which makes NO sense. Ukraine is one of the few areas where Europe has actually led the way monetarily and politically.

2. That is NOT true. Numerous White House sources have said explicitly that not all of these are stored on there, only certain ones. No one will elaborate why (which is okay, because impeachment will bring that all to light). Multiple former White House officials from Republican White Houses have said this is incredibly unusual. This isn't just some private server. It's a server that only 3-5 people in the country have access to.

For reference, in previous administrations, these summaries would be printed out and dropped on tables for reporters. This level of security FOR THESE types of calls is absolutely unprecedented. Please do the homework on this.

3. You do realize that bribes don't have to include money, right? I'm not being sarcastic. You can bribe someone with anything of value. Are you SERIOUSLY saying that dirt on Biden wouldn't have been of value to Trump?

Read the conversation again. He made it 10000% clear what he wanted from the Ukrainians, and he had created leverage (withholding funds and arms) to make them get it. There is a reason the world is losing its mind right now.

---

1. Wrong. The transcript notes both.
2. Wrong again. 2 private conversations with world leaders, Australia and Mexico, have been leaked. That's the reason for limiting access.
3. There's NO quid pro quo when there's a signed treaty with Ukraine in place.
4. Only lib Trump haters are losing their minds because they got pwned. Again.

Good try tho.

BrooksBearLives said:

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fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump can do anything he wants as long as he didn't abort any kids on the way to the White House.
-Baylor Evangelicals 2019

---

It's not been proven yet that he has done anything other than help this economy, give me a tax break and curb immigration.

---

Honest question: what kind of proof would you accept?

---

Well let's see....are you going to

half-quote the famous Charlottesville quote?
misquote what he said about Mexican illegals?
insert Russian coorperation into the 2016 election?
bring up Blasey-Ford?
quote the Access Hollywood tape from 12 years ago?

I mean honestly, you people flip out about everything, scream that the sky is falling, and only look at sources that side with what you want to believe so, take your best shot.

Just understand this...I am not a "pro-Trumper at any cost." He has flaws...everyone does. I'm not the type to get worked up about it. The economy is doing well..as a middle-classer, I got more of my own money due to the tax cuts AND Hillary Clinton is not getting to appoint any SC judges.

I vote Pro-Life and small government.

---

Soooo you didn't list any proof you WOULD accept.

Is that your answer? None?

---

How can I accept something that I am not sure exists until I see it?

Let's start with things that have been proven...not anything that uses "anonymous" sources or "someone close to the situation." After all, that's just speculation.

---

This is a simple thought-experiment that normal humans do all the time.

Just ask yourself this: "what evidence would need to be presented to me before I would believe Trump did what he's been accused of doing?"

Because here are the facts:

1. he withheld money from the Ukraine
2. in the call with the Ukrainians (which the white house admitted was about this funding -Trump said so himself).
3. Trump changed his stories at least twice about WHY he withheld the funding
4. in the summary of the conversation (put together and released by the administration) he clearly asks the Ukrainian government for a favor.
5. that favor was to investigate the person he sees as his biggest competition for reelection.


What would it take for you to admit this happened and that it is bad? Because those are all verifiable FROM the Trump administration.

---

He didn't ultimately withhold the money, but I'll stipulate that he basically did what he's accused of doing. I still don't think it's that big a deal.

There are two main issues: whether Trump violated a statute by impounding funds appropriated by Congress, and whether he abused his power by investigating a political rival. These are complicated issues with multiple motives likely involved. Obama and Biden clearly did the same or worse on both counts. I'm sure they weren't the first.

At most I think it's worthy of censure. Which is what we'd actually be talking about if this House committee were anything other than a partisan lynch mob.

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump can do anything he wants as long as he didn't abort any kids on the way to the White House.
-Baylor Evangelicals 2019

---

It's not been proven yet that he has done anything other than help this economy, give me a tax break and curb immigration.

---

Honest question: what kind of proof would you accept?

---

Well let's see....are you going to

half-quote the famous Charlottesville quote?
misquote what he said about Mexican illegals?
insert Russian coorperation into the 2016 election?
bring up Blasey-Ford?
quote the Access Hollywood tape from 12 years ago?

I mean honestly, you people flip out about everything, scream that the sky is falling, and only look at sources that side with what you want to believe so, take your best shot.

Just understand this...I am not a "pro-Trumper at any cost." He has flaws...everyone does. I'm not the type to get worked up about it. The economy is doing well..as a middle-classer, I got more of my own money due to the tax cuts AND Hillary Clinton is not getting to appoint any SC judges.

I vote Pro-Life and small government.

---

Soooo you didn't list any proof you WOULD accept.

Is that your answer? None?

---

How can I accept something that I am not sure exists until I see it?

Let's start with things that have been proven...not anything that uses "anonymous" sources or "someone close to the situation." After all, that's just speculation.

---

This is a simple thought-experiment that normal humans do all the time.

Just ask yourself this: "what evidence would need to be presented to me before I would believe Trump did what he's been accused of doing?"

Because here are the facts:

1. he withheld money from the Ukraine
2. in the call with the Ukrainians (which the white house admitted was about this funding -Trump said so himself).
3. Trump changed his stories at least twice about WHY he withheld the funding
4. in the summary of the conversation (put together and released by the administration) he clearly asks the Ukrainian government for a favor.
5. that favor was to investigate the person he sees as his biggest competition for reelection.


What would it take for you to admit this happened and that it is bad? Because those are all verifiable FROM the Trump administration.

---

He didn't ultimately withhold the money, but I'll stipulate that he basically did what he's accused of doing. I still don't think it's that big a deal.

There are two main issues: whether Trump violated a statute by impounding funds appropriated by Congress, and whether he abused his power by investigating a political rival. These are complicated issues with multiple motives likely involved. Obama and Biden clearly did the same or worse on both counts. I'm sure they weren't the first.

At most I think it's worthy of censure. Which is what we'd actually be talking about if this House committee were anything other than a partisan lynch mob.

---

First, I will give you credit for admitting what your eyes can see. Too many above won't do that.

Secondly, if you don't think withholding congressionally appropriated funds to create leverage to get a foreign government to help you in an election -and then covering it up- is wrong, then there is nothing more to discuss.

That's the entire ballgame.

---

I'm not actually sure whether to say it's wrong. Ordinarily a president can't impound funds, but in this case there's a requirement specific to Ukraine that the DOD has to certify compliance with anti-corruption standards before the money can be released. Who legally makes the call if the DOD certifies and the president disagrees? I really don't know. There's also the question of whether Trump's motive was political, and if so whether it was entirely political or partly motivated by legitimate policy concerns. I don't think any president is entirely forgetful of politics in the course of his duties.

For me the bottom line is that you don't impeach based on doubtful interpretations of the law. This is a principle that maintains some level of confidence in the system and ensures that elections aren't subject to arbitrary negation.

Jinx 2 said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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Jinx 2 said:

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trey3216 said:

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Jinx 2 said:

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quash said:

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curtpenn said:

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Doesn't matter when the alternative is any current Democrat. Why is this simple truth so hard for some to grasp? Don't have to like the guy or be on board with everything he does to understand that he's the only alternative to the lunacy of the Social Democrats.

---

How ****ed up are you willing to let the country get before you look for another option? $44 trillion? 88?

---

Quash, seriously, the ONLY time national debt is an issue for most Republicans is when a Democrat is president. THEN they start complaining about the deficit.

I didn't hear a bloody PEEP when Bush was borrowing from the Chinese and going to war on the credit cards and back-door drafting military personnel (very few of whom were college grads, so the crowd of mostly Baylor alums posting back then and their children would have been unaffected). Because he lowered taxes at the same time. So their tax bills went down.

That is literally ALL they care about. Kicking the can down the road to the next president / next generation = not their problem. It's an ant / grasshopper conundrum. Republicans claim to be ants, but they are fiscal grasshoppers.

---

I know about 2 dozen Baylor grads that willfully went to war. That's a disgusting misrepresentation. Shame on you

---

I'm bettng they were in the reserve and not back-door drafted.

---

When you sign up, your commitment is for, if I recall, eight years. If they are recalled to active service, that is what service members signed up for, not a "back door draft." It is a serious commitment which service members are well aware of when they enlist. I have a friend in the Marines who talked about this when he signed up straight out of high school.

---

True, but these people were told by recruiters than there was very little chance of thsi happening.

Wonder if recruiters are still saying that.

For the record, I think every American should do at least 2 years of national service, Military would be one option, but vocational training--aides in Medicaid nursing homes and public school classrooms, learning construction skills and helping to maintain roads and public buildings, forestry skills to help maintain public lands--there are all sorts of options.

---

So, to be clear, the commitment includes a period of time where you are on active duty and a period of time where you may be recalled, not a draft, back door or otherwise.

Hitler was elected to lead the National Socialists. His party went on to be elected to more seats than any other party which eventually led to his appointment. Your democracy in action.

I've just about given myself over to the spirit of relativism so common among people of your sort. While I might agree that I would prefer for Trump to leave Biden alone (reminds me of Nixon in '72 - yeah, I'm old), I just don't care about right and wrong in the more absolute way I once did. Big picture, this is nothing but politics as they've always been and there's no way the left can be allowed to win under any circumstances. Gee, I sound like a Democrat.

True. Witness all the pandering by every Dem.