BrooksBearLives said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

What about crime created by illegal immigrants? Some illegal immigration is workable... but rampant illegal immigration like we would see if a democrat took power would destroy law and order in this country. Its just common sense, when ppl are poor they are more likely to commit crime, and we have enough poor to deal with in this country. Besides, many of these countries exporting their poor to us need to reform themselves and institute population control!

---

Undocumented people and immigrants commit crime at significantly lower rates than citizens. Once again, the libertarian Cato institute has done some compelling work on this.

And as crime is usually committed within communities, even when there IS crime, it's usually localized to other undocumented persons.

---

Cuban with a work visa raped a CSU coed I know when she was only 13 .

Now a single mom of a 7 year old daughter . No charges were ever brought . Apparently the perp left the country .

---

Anecdata.

Statistically speaking, you are safer among immigrants than you are among citizens. There is no getting around this. The data has been reproduced multiple times.

For every immigrant that does something, there are MORE citizens who do the same thing. You don't have to like it, but if is true.

---

Canada2017 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

What about crime created by illegal immigrants? Some illegal immigration is workable... but rampant illegal immigration like we would see if a democrat took power would destroy law and order in this country. Its just common sense, when ppl are poor they are more likely to commit crime, and we have enough poor to deal with in this country. Besides, many of these countries exporting their poor to us need to reform themselves and institute population control!

---

Undocumented people and immigrants commit crime at significantly lower rates than citizens. Once again, the libertarian Cato institute has done some compelling work on this.

And as crime is usually committed within communities, even when there IS crime, it's usually localized to other undocumented persons.

---

Cuban with a work visa raped a CSU coed I know when she was only 13 .

Now a single mom of a 7 year old daughter . No charges were ever brought . Apparently the perp left the country .

---

Anecdata.

---

Tell that to the grandparents who are raising the 7 year old while the rape victim finishes her senior year at Colorado State . Every single day the family is reminded of what that Cuban did to them all.

BTW I detest the concept that we are supposed to disavow and ignore what we have repeatedly experienced first hand in favor of a 'study' that may or may not be biased .

A 'study' that may or may not be accurate. A 'study' that may or may not be a political sham .

Bolsheviks and communists manipulated people with such arrogant practices throughout the 20th century.

'Don't believe what your eyes tell you....only believe what the STATE tells you to believe '.




Well.....to hell with that noise .

---

Florda_mike said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

What about crime created by illegal immigrants? Some illegal immigration is workable... but rampant illegal immigration like we would see if a democrat took power would destroy law and order in this country. Its just common sense, when ppl are poor they are more likely to commit crime, and we have enough poor to deal with in this country. Besides, many of these countries exporting their poor to us need to reform themselves and institute population control!

---

Undocumented people and immigrants commit crime at significantly lower rates than citizens. Once again, the libertarian Cato institute has done some compelling work on this.

And as crime is usually committed within communities, even when there IS crime, it's usually localized to other undocumented persons.

---

Cuban with a work visa raped a CSU coed I know when she was only 13 .

Now a single mom of a 7 year old daughter . No charges were ever brought . Apparently the perp left the country .

---

Anecdata.

---

Tell that to the grandparents who are raising the 7 year old while the rape victim finishes her senior year at Colorado State . Every single day the family is reminded of what that Cuban did to them all.

BTW I detest the concept that we are supposed to disavow and ignore what we have repeatedly experienced first hand in favor of a 'study' that may or may not be biased .

A 'study' that may or may not be accurate. A 'study' that may or may not be a political sham .

Bolsheviks and communists manipulated people with such arrogant practices throughout the 20th century.

'Don't believe what your eyes tell you....only believe what the STATE tells you to believe '.




Well.....to hell with that noise .

---

And if we allow the democrat party which are avowed Socialists(Communists) to win just because Trump is a narcissist and we don't like him then we'll get what happened to your friend

People need to wake up and fight what's starring them square in eyes

---

curtpenn said:

---

quash said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

quash said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

quash said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Yeah... you're saving this country about as much as the iceberg saved the Titanic... but hey if you get another Obama for 2 terms, they can import another 100 million immigrants with no talent or discernable skills and the ****hole transformation will be complete!

---

Immigrant labor benefits all of us, even the Know Nothings.

---

Silly assertion, even for a Know Everything.

---

Not an assertion. See my thread on 14 myths of immigration.

---

Don't see much point in posting countless threads countering your threads. One of my key takeaways as a Hankamer grad with an undergrad degree with concentration in Economics and briefly as a grad assistant for Ray Perryman is that if you took all the economists in the world and stacked them end to end, you wouldn't reach a conclusion. The other, to paraphrase Keynes, in the long run we're all dead.

---

Okay, the numbers say illegal immigrants benefit us all. It doesn't take an economist to conclude that immigration reform to improve the flow of labor is a ood thing.

From Cato:

"The wealth produced by immigration is vast and the potential of further liberalizations makes other policy reforms look rather minor by comparison. The median immigrant from a developing country can expect a fourfold increase in their economic output by working here. American capital, security, and freer markets make them that much more productive with virtually all of the gains captured by the U.S. economy. Economist Michael Clemens wrote that even small immigration liberalizations are potentially worth trillions of dollars in economic output as immigrants move from countries where they are unproductive to ones where they have tremendously higher output. He described that wasted opportunity as akin to leaving "trillion-dollar bills on the sidewalk."

After they arrive, immigrant workers, entrepreneurs, and investors increase the productive possibility of the U.S. economy and currently account for about 11 percent of all economic output. Crucially, they do so with very little impact on the wages of native-born American workers. According to the most negative estimate in the peer-reviewed academic literature, immigrants increased native wages by 0.6 percent overall and caused them to fall for high school dropouts by about 1.7 percent from 1990 through 2010. Other estimates find similar overall wage effects for all American workers, but the wages of native high school dropouts rose by 0.6 percent. Immigration is the only policy where pundits argue heatedly over a price difference of 2.3 percentage points for the small number of American workers who are high school dropouts. Not every American worker in every occupation is untouched by immigrant wage competition, but immigration has an overall positive effect on the wages of Americans."

---

I don't need questionable conclusions from some think tank when I have decades of personal experience in the hiring and management of workers, the majority of whom were of Hispanic extraction and a serious number of whom had shaky documentation. There's no doubt the ready availability of lower cost workers served as an anchor on the wages of existing workers. Reality check time. Yeah, may have employed an illegal as a nanny for a year, too until she delivered her own anchor baby.

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Most illegal immigrants are fine. A number of illegal immigrants are members of criminal gangs who are such before they come. This is a problem.

So...
1. Make work visas routine
2. Secure the border

Easier said than done both practically and politically.

---

quash said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

quash said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

quash said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

quash said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Yeah... you're saving this country about as much as the iceberg saved the Titanic... but hey if you get another Obama for 2 terms, they can import another 100 million immigrants with no talent or discernable skills and the ****hole transformation will be complete!

---

Immigrant labor benefits all of us, even the Know Nothings.

---

Silly assertion, even for a Know Everything.

---

Not an assertion. See my thread on 14 myths of immigration.

---

Don't see much point in posting countless threads countering your threads. One of my key takeaways as a Hankamer grad with an undergrad degree with concentration in Economics and briefly as a grad assistant for Ray Perryman is that if you took all the economists in the world and stacked them end to end, you wouldn't reach a conclusion. The other, to paraphrase Keynes, in the long run we're all dead.

---

Okay, the numbers say illegal immigrants benefit us all. It doesn't take an economist to conclude that immigration reform to improve the flow of labor is a ood thing.

From Cato:

"The wealth produced by immigration is vast and the potential of further liberalizations makes other policy reforms look rather minor by comparison. The median immigrant from a developing country can expect a fourfold increase in their economic output by working here. American capital, security, and freer markets make them that much more productive with virtually all of the gains captured by the U.S. economy. Economist Michael Clemens wrote that even small immigration liberalizations are potentially worth trillions of dollars in economic output as immigrants move from countries where they are unproductive to ones where they have tremendously higher output. He described that wasted opportunity as akin to leaving "trillion-dollar bills on the sidewalk."

After they arrive, immigrant workers, entrepreneurs, and investors increase the productive possibility of the U.S. economy and currently account for about 11 percent of all economic output. Crucially, they do so with very little impact on the wages of native-born American workers. According to the most negative estimate in the peer-reviewed academic literature, immigrants increased native wages by 0.6 percent overall and caused them to fall for high school dropouts by about 1.7 percent from 1990 through 2010. Other estimates find similar overall wage effects for all American workers, but the wages of native high school dropouts rose by 0.6 percent. Immigration is the only policy where pundits argue heatedly over a price difference of 2.3 percentage points for the small number of American workers who are high school dropouts. Not every American worker in every occupation is untouched by immigrant wage competition, but immigration has an overall positive effect on the wages of Americans."

---

I don't need questionable conclusions from some think tank when I have decades of personal experience in the hiring and management of workers, the majority of whom were of Hispanic extraction and a serious number of whom had shaky documentation. There's no doubt the ready availability of lower cost workers served as an anchor on the wages of existing workers. Reality check time. Yeah, may have employed an illegal as a nanny for a year, too until she delivered her own anchor baby.

---

Evidence almost never outweighs personal experience.

---

curtpenn said:

---

quash said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

quash said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

quash said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

quash said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Yeah... you're saving this country about as much as the iceberg saved the Titanic... but hey if you get another Obama for 2 terms, they can import another 100 million immigrants with no talent or discernable skills and the ****hole transformation will be complete!

---

Immigrant labor benefits all of us, even the Know Nothings.

---

Silly assertion, even for a Know Everything.

---

Not an assertion. See my thread on 14 myths of immigration.

---

Don't see much point in posting countless threads countering your threads. One of my key takeaways as a Hankamer grad with an undergrad degree with concentration in Economics and briefly as a grad assistant for Ray Perryman is that if you took all the economists in the world and stacked them end to end, you wouldn't reach a conclusion. The other, to paraphrase Keynes, in the long run we're all dead.

---

Okay, the numbers say illegal immigrants benefit us all. It doesn't take an economist to conclude that immigration reform to improve the flow of labor is a ood thing.

From Cato:

"The wealth produced by immigration is vast and the potential of further liberalizations makes other policy reforms look rather minor by comparison. The median immigrant from a developing country can expect a fourfold increase in their economic output by working here. American capital, security, and freer markets make them that much more productive with virtually all of the gains captured by the U.S. economy. Economist Michael Clemens wrote that even small immigration liberalizations are potentially worth trillions of dollars in economic output as immigrants move from countries where they are unproductive to ones where they have tremendously higher output. He described that wasted opportunity as akin to leaving "trillion-dollar bills on the sidewalk."

After they arrive, immigrant workers, entrepreneurs, and investors increase the productive possibility of the U.S. economy and currently account for about 11 percent of all economic output. Crucially, they do so with very little impact on the wages of native-born American workers. According to the most negative estimate in the peer-reviewed academic literature, immigrants increased native wages by 0.6 percent overall and caused them to fall for high school dropouts by about 1.7 percent from 1990 through 2010. Other estimates find similar overall wage effects for all American workers, but the wages of native high school dropouts rose by 0.6 percent. Immigration is the only policy where pundits argue heatedly over a price difference of 2.3 percentage points for the small number of American workers who are high school dropouts. Not every American worker in every occupation is untouched by immigrant wage competition, but immigration has an overall positive effect on the wages of Americans."

---

I don't need questionable conclusions from some think tank when I have decades of personal experience in the hiring and management of workers, the majority of whom were of Hispanic extraction and a serious number of whom had shaky documentation. There's no doubt the ready availability of lower cost workers served as an anchor on the wages of existing workers. Reality check time. Yeah, may have employed an illegal as a nanny for a year, too until she delivered her own anchor baby.

---

Evidence almost never outweighs personal experience.

---

The evidence provided by personal experience usually outweighs so called "evidence" produced by "studies".

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

What about crime created by illegal immigrants? Some illegal immigration is workable... but rampant illegal immigration like we would see if a democrat took power would destroy law and order in this country. Its just common sense, when ppl are poor they are more likely to commit crime, and we have enough poor to deal with in this country. Besides, many of these countries exporting their poor to us need to reform themselves and institute population control!

---

Undocumented people and immigrants commit crime at significantly lower rates than citizens. Once again, the libertarian Cato institute has done some compelling work on this.

And as crime is usually committed within communities, even when there IS crime, it's usually localized to other undocumented persons.

---

Cuban with a work visa raped a CSU coed I know when she was only 13 .

Now a single mom of a 7 year old daughter . No charges were ever brought . Apparently the perp left the country .

---

Anecdata.

Statistically speaking, you are safer among immigrants than you are among citizens. There is no getting around this. The data has been reproduced multiple times.

For every immigrant that does something, there are MORE citizens who do the same thing. You don't have to like it, but if is true.

---

And what happens to your data if you take out inner city black and hispanic crime out? Since you played the race card last night by saying all white men are entitled... lets look at white crime vs immigrant crime.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Paradoxically, while it seems to be true that illegal immigrants have a lower crime rate than the general population, they also seem to have a higher crime rate than most other demographic subgroups. So the anecdotal evidence is not wrong.

"Fewer people = fewer crimes" is not a particularly good argument. We need people to sustain the economy.

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Doesn't matter when the alternative is any current Democrat. Why is this simple truth so hard for some to grasp? Don't have to like the guy or be on board with everything he does to understand that he's the only alternative to the lunacy of the Social Democrats.

---

While you may care more about a specific agenda than you do about living in a democracy where the rule of law matters, I'm counting on the fact that enough Republicans do care that, if Trump really was trying to wield U.S. foreign aid as a personal weapon against a political opponent, they will support impeachment.

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

He's not playing 3-dimensional chess.

He's a simple rich kid who has failed up his entire life.

He's going to ruin the party on his way out.

---

I didn't vote for him and do not like his politics but it beats the hell out of those Democrats running so far. Watching the Congressional hearings with Zuckerberg yesterday turned my stomach. Congressional hearings are becoming day time soap operas for clowns. Al Green should have his ass kicked in the next elections but he will probably be returned to the astonishment of intelligent voters.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

He's not playing 3-dimensional chess.

He's a simple rich kid who has failed up his entire life.

He's going to ruin the party on his way out.

---

I didn't vote for him and do not like his politics but it beats the hell out of those Democrats running so far. Watching the Congressional hearings with Zuckerberg yesterday turned my stomach. Congressional hearings are becoming day time soap operas for clowns. Al Green should have his ass kicked in the next elections but he will probably be returned to the astonishment of intelligent voters.

---

Yeah. How hard is it to improve on a guy who puts kids in cages and has recharged ISIS?

---

True, improving on Obama didn't take much.

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

He's not playing 3-dimensional chess.

He's a simple rich kid who has failed up his entire life.

He's going to ruin the party on his way out.

---

I didn't vote for him and do not like his politics but it beats the hell out of those Democrats running so far. Watching the Congressional hearings with Zuckerberg yesterday turned my stomach. Congressional hearings are becoming day time soap operas for clowns. Al Green should have his ass kicked in the next elections but he will probably be returned to the astonishment of intelligent voters.

---

Yeah. How hard is it to improve on a guy who puts kids in cages and has recharged ISIS?

---

True, improving on Obama didn't take much.

---

So it was so bad you doubled down on it?

Obama didn't put kids in cages and he didn't undo hard-earned gains against ISIS.

Can't help but notice your responses are getting less substantive.

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

He's not playing 3-dimensional chess.

He's a simple rich kid who has failed up his entire life.

He's going to ruin the party on his way out.

---

I didn't vote for him and do not like his politics but it beats the hell out of those Democrats running so far. Watching the Congressional hearings with Zuckerberg yesterday turned my stomach. Congressional hearings are becoming day time soap operas for clowns. Al Green should have his ass kicked in the next elections but he will probably be returned to the astonishment of intelligent voters.

---

Yeah. How hard is it to improve on a guy who puts kids in cages and has recharged ISIS?

---

True, improving on Obama didn't take much.

---

So it was so bad you doubled down on it?

Obama didn't put kids in cages and he didn't undo hard-earned gains against ISIS.

Can't help but notice your responses are getting less substantive.

---

curtpenn said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

He's not playing 3-dimensional chess.

He's a simple rich kid who has failed up his entire life.

He's going to ruin the party on his way out.

---

I didn't vote for him and do not like his politics but it beats the hell out of those Democrats running so far. Watching the Congressional hearings with Zuckerberg yesterday turned my stomach. Congressional hearings are becoming day time soap operas for clowns. Al Green should have his ass kicked in the next elections but he will probably be returned to the astonishment of intelligent voters.

---

Yeah. How hard is it to improve on a guy who puts kids in cages and has recharged ISIS?

---

True, improving on Obama didn't take much.

---

So it was so bad you doubled down on it?

Obama didn't put kids in cages and he didn't undo hard-earned gains against ISIS.

Can't help but notice your responses are getting less substantive.

---

"But for Biden to say that Obama's administration did not put people in cages is inaccurate. Obama and Biden in 2014 saw an influx of children arriving at the border without a parent or guardian, and reporting from 2014 by the Arizona Republic referred to a chain-link enclosure holding children as "cages." A former Homeland Security secretary under the Obama administration in interviews has acknowledged that some have described as "cages" the enclosures used during Obama's tenure.

There's a debate on whether a chain-link enclosure is a "cage" and whether applying that term to those structures is subjective. But the term certainly was used in 2014 to describe enclosures used by Obama' administration."

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/sep/13/joe-biden/fact-checking-biden-use-cages-during-obama-adminis/

"President George W. Bush, at the end of his Presidency, warned America of the risk of withdrawing precipitously from Iraq. Nevertheless, the United States military forces, under the direction of then President Obama, quickly started a withdrawal from Iraq that was completed in 2011. Not coincidentally, by April of 2013, the Islamic State of Iraq had united with al-Nusra Front to form Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

At that time, ISIS was confined to the immediate area of Iraq and Syria. President Obama famously referred to ISIS nine months later in January of 2014 as the "JV team." Just over a year later, however, according to ABC News, on "the second anniversary of the declaration of its Islamic 'caliphate,' or kingdom . . . the group has gone from obscurity . . . to the world's most brutal terrorist network, not only responsible for thousands of deaths in the Middle East but also linked to hundreds more in dozens of terrorist plots in the West."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelbeccaro/2017/02/16/are-the-democrats-helping-isis-recruit/#2cdf8c0926ff

Personally, I don't get too wrapped up around these peripheral (to me) issue, but since you do... You're welcome.

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

He's not playing 3-dimensional chess.

He's a simple rich kid who has failed up his entire life.

He's going to ruin the party on his way out.

---

I didn't vote for him and do not like his politics but it beats the hell out of those Democrats running so far. Watching the Congressional hearings with Zuckerberg yesterday turned my stomach. Congressional hearings are becoming day time soap operas for clowns. Al Green should have his ass kicked in the next elections but he will probably be returned to the astonishment of intelligent voters.

---

Yeah. How hard is it to improve on a guy who puts kids in cages and has recharged ISIS?

---

True, improving on Obama didn't take much.

---

So it was so bad you doubled down on it?

Obama didn't put kids in cages and he didn't undo hard-earned gains against ISIS.

Can't help but notice your responses are getting less substantive.

---

"But for Biden to say that Obama's administration did not put people in cages is inaccurate. Obama and Biden in 2014 saw an influx of children arriving at the border without a parent or guardian, and reporting from 2014 by the Arizona Republic referred to a chain-link enclosure holding children as "cages." A former Homeland Security secretary under the Obama administration in interviews has acknowledged that some have described as "cages" the enclosures used during Obama's tenure.

There's a debate on whether a chain-link enclosure is a "cage" and whether applying that term to those structures is subjective. But the term certainly was used in 2014 to describe enclosures used by Obama' administration."

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/sep/13/joe-biden/fact-checking-biden-use-cages-during-obama-adminis/

"President George W. Bush, at the end of his Presidency, warned America of the risk of withdrawing precipitously from Iraq. Nevertheless, the United States military forces, under the direction of then President Obama, quickly started a withdrawal from Iraq that was completed in 2011. Not coincidentally, by April of 2013, the Islamic State of Iraq had united with al-Nusra Front to form Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

At that time, ISIS was confined to the immediate area of Iraq and Syria. President Obama famously referred to ISIS nine months later in January of 2014 as the "JV team." Just over a year later, however, according to ABC News, on "the second anniversary of the declaration of its Islamic 'caliphate,' or kingdom . . . the group has gone from obscurity . . . to the world's most brutal terrorist network, not only responsible for thousands of deaths in the Middle East but also linked to hundreds more in dozens of terrorist plots in the West."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelbeccaro/2017/02/16/are-the-democrats-helping-isis-recruit/#2cdf8c0926ff

Personally, I don't get too wrapped up around these peripheral (to me) issue, but since you do... You're welcome.

---

It was nowhere NEAR the scale, and the Flores agreement was followed. It was nowhere NEAR the same. This administration's expressed policy was to be cruel.

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

He's not playing 3-dimensional chess.

He's a simple rich kid who has failed up his entire life.

He's going to ruin the party on his way out.

---

I didn't vote for him and do not like his politics but it beats the hell out of those Democrats running so far. Watching the Congressional hearings with Zuckerberg yesterday turned my stomach. Congressional hearings are becoming day time soap operas for clowns. Al Green should have his ass kicked in the next elections but he will probably be returned to the astonishment of intelligent voters.

---

Yeah. How hard is it to improve on a guy who puts kids in cages and has recharged ISIS?

---

True, improving on Obama didn't take much.

---

So it was so bad you doubled down on it?

Obama didn't put kids in cages and he didn't undo hard-earned gains against ISIS.

Can't help but notice your responses are getting less substantive.

---

"But for Biden to say that Obama's administration did not put people in cages is inaccurate. Obama and Biden in 2014 saw an influx of children arriving at the border without a parent or guardian, and reporting from 2014 by the Arizona Republic referred to a chain-link enclosure holding children as "cages." A former Homeland Security secretary under the Obama administration in interviews has acknowledged that some have described as "cages" the enclosures used during Obama's tenure.

There's a debate on whether a chain-link enclosure is a "cage" and whether applying that term to those structures is subjective. But the term certainly was used in 2014 to describe enclosures used by Obama' administration."

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/sep/13/joe-biden/fact-checking-biden-use-cages-during-obama-adminis/

"President George W. Bush, at the end of his Presidency, warned America of the risk of withdrawing precipitously from Iraq. Nevertheless, the United States military forces, under the direction of then President Obama, quickly started a withdrawal from Iraq that was completed in 2011. Not coincidentally, by April of 2013, the Islamic State of Iraq had united with al-Nusra Front to form Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

At that time, ISIS was confined to the immediate area of Iraq and Syria. President Obama famously referred to ISIS nine months later in January of 2014 as the "JV team." Just over a year later, however, according to ABC News, on "the second anniversary of the declaration of its Islamic 'caliphate,' or kingdom . . . the group has gone from obscurity . . . to the world's most brutal terrorist network, not only responsible for thousands of deaths in the Middle East but also linked to hundreds more in dozens of terrorist plots in the West."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelbeccaro/2017/02/16/are-the-democrats-helping-isis-recruit/#2cdf8c0926ff

Personally, I don't get too wrapped up around these peripheral (to me) issue, but since you do... You're welcome.

---

It was nowhere NEAR the scale, and the Flores agreement was followed. It was nowhere NEAR the same. This administration's expressed policy was to be cruel.

---

But you specifically asserted that "Obama didn't put kids in cages". You were wrong about that, and about Obama undoing gains against ISIS.

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

He's not playing 3-dimensional chess.

He's a simple rich kid who has failed up his entire life.

He's going to ruin the party on his way out.

---

I didn't vote for him and do not like his politics but it beats the hell out of those Democrats running so far. Watching the Congressional hearings with Zuckerberg yesterday turned my stomach. Congressional hearings are becoming day time soap operas for clowns. Al Green should have his ass kicked in the next elections but he will probably be returned to the astonishment of intelligent voters.

---

Yeah. How hard is it to improve on a guy who puts kids in cages and has recharged ISIS?

---

True, improving on Obama didn't take much.

---

So it was so bad you doubled down on it?

Obama didn't put kids in cages and he didn't undo hard-earned gains against ISIS.

Can't help but notice your responses are getting less substantive.

---

"But for Biden to say that Obama's administration did not put people in cages is inaccurate. Obama and Biden in 2014 saw an influx of children arriving at the border without a parent or guardian, and reporting from 2014 by the Arizona Republic referred to a chain-link enclosure holding children as "cages." A former Homeland Security secretary under the Obama administration in interviews has acknowledged that some have described as "cages" the enclosures used during Obama's tenure.

There's a debate on whether a chain-link enclosure is a "cage" and whether applying that term to those structures is subjective. But the term certainly was used in 2014 to describe enclosures used by Obama' administration."

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/sep/13/joe-biden/fact-checking-biden-use-cages-during-obama-adminis/

"President George W. Bush, at the end of his Presidency, warned America of the risk of withdrawing precipitously from Iraq. Nevertheless, the United States military forces, under the direction of then President Obama, quickly started a withdrawal from Iraq that was completed in 2011. Not coincidentally, by April of 2013, the Islamic State of Iraq had united with al-Nusra Front to form Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

At that time, ISIS was confined to the immediate area of Iraq and Syria. President Obama famously referred to ISIS nine months later in January of 2014 as the "JV team." Just over a year later, however, according to ABC News, on "the second anniversary of the declaration of its Islamic 'caliphate,' or kingdom . . . the group has gone from obscurity . . . to the world's most brutal terrorist network, not only responsible for thousands of deaths in the Middle East but also linked to hundreds more in dozens of terrorist plots in the West."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelbeccaro/2017/02/16/are-the-democrats-helping-isis-recruit/#2cdf8c0926ff

Personally, I don't get too wrapped up around these peripheral (to me) issue, but since you do... You're welcome.

---

It was nowhere NEAR the scale, and the Flores agreement was followed. It was nowhere NEAR the same. This administration's expressed policy was to be cruel.

---

But you specifically asserted that "Obama didn't put kids in cages". You were wrong about that, and about Obama undoing gains against ISIS.

---

With respect, no. Obama didn't. Trump WANTED these kids in cages. Interviews with John Kelly show that. Cruelty WAS the point. Under Obama, the spaces were used only when needed (when the kids were believed to be in danger -and even then, it was for limited amounts of time).

There is a GIANT difference between the treatments. And to treat them as the same is patently false and misleading.

It's kind of nice to be reminded what kind of "pro-life" Curt is, though. It'll help when he calls me a murderer later when he's losing another argument.

---

curtpenn said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Aliceinbubbleland said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

He's not playing 3-dimensional chess.

He's a simple rich kid who has failed up his entire life.

He's going to ruin the party on his way out.

---

I didn't vote for him and do not like his politics but it beats the hell out of those Democrats running so far. Watching the Congressional hearings with Zuckerberg yesterday turned my stomach. Congressional hearings are becoming day time soap operas for clowns. Al Green should have his ass kicked in the next elections but he will probably be returned to the astonishment of intelligent voters.

---

Yeah. How hard is it to improve on a guy who puts kids in cages and has recharged ISIS?

---

True, improving on Obama didn't take much.

---

So it was so bad you doubled down on it?

Obama didn't put kids in cages and he didn't undo hard-earned gains against ISIS.

Can't help but notice your responses are getting less substantive.

---

"But for Biden to say that Obama's administration did not put people in cages is inaccurate. Obama and Biden in 2014 saw an influx of children arriving at the border without a parent or guardian, and reporting from 2014 by the Arizona Republic referred to a chain-link enclosure holding children as "cages." A former Homeland Security secretary under the Obama administration in interviews has acknowledged that some have described as "cages" the enclosures used during Obama's tenure.

There's a debate on whether a chain-link enclosure is a "cage" and whether applying that term to those structures is subjective. But the term certainly was used in 2014 to describe enclosures used by Obama' administration."

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/sep/13/joe-biden/fact-checking-biden-use-cages-during-obama-adminis/

"President George W. Bush, at the end of his Presidency, warned America of the risk of withdrawing precipitously from Iraq. Nevertheless, the United States military forces, under the direction of then President Obama, quickly started a withdrawal from Iraq that was completed in 2011. Not coincidentally, by April of 2013, the Islamic State of Iraq had united with al-Nusra Front to form Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

At that time, ISIS was confined to the immediate area of Iraq and Syria. President Obama famously referred to ISIS nine months later in January of 2014 as the "JV team." Just over a year later, however, according to ABC News, on "the second anniversary of the declaration of its Islamic 'caliphate,' or kingdom . . . the group has gone from obscurity . . . to the world's most brutal terrorist network, not only responsible for thousands of deaths in the Middle East but also linked to hundreds more in dozens of terrorist plots in the West."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasdelbeccaro/2017/02/16/are-the-democrats-helping-isis-recruit/#2cdf8c0926ff

Personally, I don't get too wrapped up around these peripheral (to me) issue, but since you do... You're welcome.

---

It was nowhere NEAR the scale, and the Flores agreement was followed. It was nowhere NEAR the same. This administration's expressed policy was to be cruel.

---

But you specifically asserted that "Obama didn't put kids in cages". You were wrong about that, and about Obama undoing gains against ISIS.

---

With respect, no. Obama didn't. Trump WANTED these kids in cages. Interviews with John Kelly show that. Cruelty WAS the point. Under Obama, the spaces were used only when needed (when the kids were believed to be in danger -and even then, it was for limited amounts of time).

There is a GIANT difference between the treatments. And to treat them as the same is patently false and misleading.

It's kind of nice to be reminded what kind of "pro-life" Curt is, though. It'll help when he calls me a murderer later when he's losing another argument.

---

Thanks for the comic relief, loser. ROTFL.

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

The current system takes too many resources from the responsible and intelligent to supplement the poor decisions of the stupid or mentally ill. This is why we need small government..... and this is why we need to protect the 1st and 2nd amendment so we can protect our family and values from psychos like you who want to use the government to take away everything we care about and make us slaves to some corrupt politically correct bureaucrat.

---