curtpenn said:

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ilbb990912 said:

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Republicans and Democrats, at the end of the day, are 2 sides of the same coin - stooges for big corporations;

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Definitely some truth in that.

---

It should also be observed, that the few people with the courage or ideal to go against the business-as-usual politics are savaged not only by the Establishment mandarins in their own party, but also by the media which sees its duty to protect their own bank accounts and influence.

For all the chaos introduced by populists and some sketchy ideas, its not only good but vital for us to see populists point to the thirst and hunger of the ordinary person to be represented by someone who is not just a corporate stooge.

Doc Holliday said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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OsoCoreyell said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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She is exactly right

---

She is a cancer of her own type.

Not at all what we need.

---

There is a cancer, but it isn't Liz Cheney.

---

Ohhhhhh, Liz is a cancer all right. Just because you like what she is saying, doe snot make it a good thing.

---

So what is it exactly you don't like about Liz? Voting record - ACU 78% (Stefanik 44%), Heritage Action 80% (Stefanik 48%). Or is it she dares to call Trump out for who he is?

The cancer is Trump and Liz is willing to publicaly make the diagnosis.

---

You're on the side that media is on every single time. It never fails.

Maybe question that.

Liz partnered with pro-war Democrats who make up the majority of the House Armed Services Committee: she banned the use of money to withdraw Afghanistan troops last year...

She will gladly spill blood to climb the political ladder.

You don't think the DC making billions off war isn't propping her up in media in order to continue the process?

---

You sound like a liberal Democrat. I don't believe I know any pro-war Democrats, but Bidden should be your guy since he is the first President to pull us out. We've been in Afghanistan for good reason.

Who in the Republican party has Liz voted out of step with regarding Afghanistan? Who in DC is propping her up while making billions off war? Which pro-war Democrats did she partner with to ban withdrawal funds (vote count please)?

Booray said:

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curtpenn said:

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Booray said:

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curtpenn said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Canon said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Canon said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Porteroso said:

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I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

If the election was not stolen, then a majority of the voters are enemies of our republic and should be resisted by any and all means necessary.

---

Do you really believe this stuff or are you trolling?

---

I see you have your usual big bag of nothing. No surprise.

---

Your posting makes zero sense. The majority of the people are the enemy of the people. That is why I thought you had to be trolling. Turns out you actually believe this nonsense.

---

Doesn't require much knowledge to understand that being in a majority of any group means nothing. Sorry for your failure to grasp such a simple concept. Guess I gave you too much credit.

curtpenn said:

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Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

If the election was not stolen, then a majority of the voters are enemies of our republic and should be resisted by any and all means necessary.

---

Do you really believe this stuff or are you trolling?

---

I see you have your usual big bag of nothing. No surprise.

---

Your posting makes zero sense. The majority of the people are the enemy of the people. That is why I thought you had to be trolling. Turns out you actually believe this nonsense.

---

Doesn't require much knowledge to understand that being in a majority of any group means nothing. Sorry for your failure to grasp such a simple concept. Guess I gave you too much credit.

---

You take this from a Hamlet monologue?

curtpenn said:

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Booray said:

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curtpenn said:

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Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

If the election was not stolen, then a majority of the voters are enemies of our republic and should be resisted by any and all means necessary.

---

Do you really believe this stuff or are you trolling?

---

I see you have your usual big bag of nothing. No surprise.

---

Your posting makes zero sense. The majority of the people are the enemy of the people. That is why I thought you had to be trolling. Turns out you actually believe this nonsense.

---

Doesn't require much knowledge to understand that being in a majority of any group means nothing. Sorry for your failure to grasp such a simple concept. Guess I gave you too much credit.

---

Being in the majority of voters means your candidate wins. That makes it more likely the rules of society will match what you desire.

I guess you want America to work in some other way, but I am going to stick with the idea of majority rule.

Osodecentx said:

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muddybrazos said:

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Guy Noir said:

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muddybrazos said:

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TechDawgMc said:

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Canon said:

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She needs to go. She objected to personality and ignored the damage she was doing to policy.

---

She objected to character, which is a different thing.

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Her Dad is responsible for the deaths of literally a million people so she should pipe down with the call outs.

---

First: That is a pretty outlandish statement. Dick Cheney and the Bush Administration were defending the USA against terrorist activity. There were some pretty serious fears of terrorism after 9/11.

Second: Liz Cheney should not be called guilty because actions of her father, especially when she did something right (voting to impeach Trump).

---

BULL F"N SH!!!IT. Iraq had no wmd's and the Bush admin knew as much. Not true. CIA said WMDs were there

---

Bush kept Clinton's CIA director. CIA made an honest (and disastrous) mistake.

---

Indeed. An intelligence failure rather than a policy failure.

I saw most the Iraqi WMD intel and there were thousands of piles of it that said he did have WMDs and one manilla folder about a quarter-of-an-inch thick mostly from the same source that said he didn't. Sitting at his desk, looking across the top of all those reports at a TV with videos of a smoking pile of rubble in downtown NYC......he had no choice. A decision NOT to invade Iraq would have required him to completely disregard the intel and act on his own intuition. In addition, the 9/11 commission report cited credible intel that Saddam and AQ were talking, in a nascent liaison - Saddam had WMD capability but had never successfully attacked the USA*; AQ had no WMDS but had demonstrated not only the ability to successfully attack the USA, but to attack the USA homeland. So the basis of that liaison was logical. Each had a capability the other wanted but had been unable to attain.

*I was part of a unit that won a Presidential Unit Citation for interdicting a terrorist attack on US facilities abroad during the lead-up to the first Gulf War. I can't go further except to say that Saddam definitely earned his position on the state sponsor of terror list. The fact that he had WMD capability was not inconsequential. And the fact that islamic terror groups had figured out how to attack the USA homeland was a game-changer. the fact that the two entities had established communication was alarming, to put it mildly.

The intel failure was NOT an analytical failure. The analysts could not have concluded anything other than what they did, given the reporting available to them. The key failure, and the 911 commission did not do a good job of highlighting this to the public, was an operational failure. We simply did not have sources with access to the information necessary to know what was happening. Arab targets are hard to work in the best of circumstances. And in the Iraqi situation, we had closed our embassy there and had no commercial connections to Iraq. That lack of presence on the ground with proximity to people who had access to the information we needed added an enormous barrier to the operational process of spotting, assessing, developing, and recruiting sources of intelligence. And over time, existing sources withered away faster than new ones were acquired. We simply did not have a single reporting source who had access to information about the true status of Saddam's WMD program. And everything else flowed from there.

Frankly, the war was worth it anyway. Saddam had to go. And it gave us an enormous policy leverage against Iran = +100k troops on the Iranian border. But the Obama admin squandered that with an appeasement policy toward Iran which involved removing our forces from Iraq. That was the real outrage. We paid dearly to be in position to have that kind of leverage, real gunboat diplomacy against a regime pursuing WMDs just as intently and even more capably than Saddam. And we threw it all away on a meaningless virtue posture.

Booray said:

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curtpenn said:

---

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

If the election was not stolen, then a majority of the voters are enemies of our republic and should be resisted by any and all means necessary.

---

Do you really believe this stuff or are you trolling?

---

I see you have your usual big bag of nothing. No surprise.

---

Your posting makes zero sense. The majority of the people are the enemy of the people. That is why I thought you had to be trolling. Turns out you actually believe this nonsense.

---

Doesn't require much knowledge to understand that being in a majority of any group means nothing. Sorry for your failure to grasp such a simple concept. Guess I gave you too much credit.

---

Being in the majority of voters means your candidate wins. That makes it more likely the rules of society will match what you desire.

I guess you want America to work in some other way, but I am going to stick with the idea of majority rule.

---

There is no magical virtue in majorities. This is the potentially fatal flaw of democracies. Culture matters.

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

Liz is a snake just like her dad

Both need extinguished from politics and put out to graze

Just another deep swamp in the deep swamp preaching what deep swamp believes which is lies constantly

ATL Bear said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

I was questioned about the 2016 election, not Russian collusion or impeachments

The key phrase here in sorting how who is what, is the Latin question, quo bono?

The irony here is that both Trump and Cheney benefit the Democrats with their behavior, by dividing the GOP with personal sniping.

HuMcK said:

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ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

You are purposefully conflating different things to form a straw-man you can use to justify your own behavior. First, Mueller was a Republican, appointed by a Republican, overseen by Republicans, to investigate Republicans. That's a more favorable a draw for Special Counsel than Trump deserved. Second, the impeachment had nothing to do with 2016 (although they should have pursued obstruction if Republicans had any integrity at all). Third, saying the Russians interfered in 2016 and members of the Trump campaign coordinated with that espionage (i.e. objective facts based on clear and convincing evidence), is not the same as saying the election was "stolen" through vague accusations of fraud like Trump is doing. But, you have to conflate them as being the same, I guess for your own conscience. Despite all of that, Hillary still called to concede the very next day, did Trump ever call Biden? Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

You're so caught up in your partisan loyalty that it's forcing you to refuse any acknowledgement of inconvenient reality, so you just blanket deny anything having to do with 2016/Russia no matter what evidence exists.

Not for nothing, but we did warn you years ago that if you elected Trump it would set us down a path of destabilization, and that's the exact reason why Russia favored him in in the first place. Well, whaddya know, 4yrs of Trump and the country seems a whole lot less stable than it did before, one side has even decided they don't like democracy anymore because they only represent a minority of voters. Trump and his hardcore supporters would be more than happy to ignite the country to keep him in power (see: events of 1/6), and the party he leads is too cowardly to even call him out for it, so here we are with the Cheney situation.

Accused pedophile Matt Gaetz has a home in the GOP, but not Liz Cheney, and that should tell you all you need to know.

---

Really great post!

Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Cheney and her ilk are wrong on a lot of things, but they're 100% right on this. This is completely unacceptable for anyone who claims to love the Constitution and the rule of law.

---

Adopting the rhetoric of your opponent doesn't impress anyone. It just emboldens your opponent and undermines your credibility among your natural allies.

---

The rhetoric of constitutionalism was not always unique to the left. It's the abandonment of our own principles that undermines our credibility.

A former president should not be undermining an election six months after the fact, especially not without evidence. It is obscene.

---

again, you are adopting the rhetoric of your opponent: he did not, and is not, undermining an election. He is keeping the GOP focused on severely flawed state laws that allowed our opponents to steal an election. He is merely playing the same exact games Democrats played, only better. That's why they're freaking out. It's working. Laws are being amended to close loopholes thru which Democrats poured hundreds of thousands of fraudulent ballots.

Dems do not tolerate Cheney-esque rebellion. Literally it never happens. They stay united. yes, they're united behind incredibly bad ideas, but that's why they're winning. They stay united. We simply cannot win when we have elected officials who put their own sensibilities before the interests of the people they represent, and the caucus they are elected to lead. There is absolutely nothing principled at all about what she's doing. She's putting her own vanity uber alles. Man, politics is one of an exceedingly small number of professions where compromising of ones principles is considered a virtue. And she is unwilling to compromise with an overwhelming majority of her own party. How ironic. A moderate who is willing to compromise.

---

Those claims have made their way through the courts. I understand case law, and I know what is and is not evidence. Some states may need reform, but to claim the election was stolen, based on the available evidence, is a lie.

Trump has offended my sensibilities for a long time. I supported him anyway. The rule of law and the peaceful transfer of power are not "sensibilities." They're what separates us from the dictatorships and banana republics of the world.

---

You should be far more concerned with the FBI/FISA abuse effort at ousting Trump.

As far as I'm concerned, the intelligence community can derail a presidency if DC doesn't like what that president is doing to their money. Because of their recent efforts, I know that my vote and support of populism is pointless: they will attack anyone I support.

Florda_mike said:

---

Liz is a snake just like her dad

Both need extinguished from politics and put out to graze

Just another deep swamp in the deep swamp preaching what deep swamp believes which is lies constantly

---

Let's see, Cheney voted with Trump over 90% of the time and Stefanik was around 77%. Stefanik voted against the Trump tax cuts, Cheney voted for. Stefanik voted against Trumps withdrawal from Syria. Seems like Cheney has waded in the Trump swamp more than Stefanik.

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Cheney and her ilk are wrong on a lot of things, but they're 100% right on this. This is completely unacceptable for anyone who claims to love the Constitution and the rule of law.

---

Adopting the rhetoric of your opponent doesn't impress anyone. It just emboldens your opponent and undermines your credibility among your natural allies.

---

The rhetoric of constitutionalism was not always unique to the left. It's the abandonment of our own principles that undermines our credibility.

A former president should not be undermining an election six months after the fact, especially not without evidence. It is obscene.

---

again, you are adopting the rhetoric of your opponent: he did not, and is not, undermining an election. He is keeping the GOP focused on severely flawed state laws that allowed our opponents to steal an election. He is merely playing the same exact games Democrats played, only better. That's why they're freaking out. It's working. Laws are being amended to close loopholes thru which Democrats poured hundreds of thousands of fraudulent ballots.

Dems do not tolerate Cheney-esque rebellion. Literally it never happens. They stay united. yes, they're united behind incredibly bad ideas, but that's why they're winning. They stay united. We simply cannot win when we have elected officials who put their own sensibilities before the interests of the people they represent, and the caucus they are elected to lead. There is absolutely nothing principled at all about what she's doing. She's putting her own vanity uber alles. Man, politics is one of an exceedingly small number of professions where compromising of ones principles is considered a virtue. And she is unwilling to compromise with an overwhelming majority of her own party. How ironic. A moderate who is willing to compromise.

---

Those claims have made their way through the courts. I understand case law, and I know what is and is not evidence. Some states may need reform, but to claim the election was stolen, based on the available evidence, is a lie.

Trump has offended my sensibilities for a long time. I supported him anyway. The rule of law and the peaceful transfer of power are not "sensibilities." They're what separates us from the dictatorships and banana republics of the world.

---

Exactly!!

Mothra said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

---

Does making DC a state, packing the Court, amnesty for illegals, and ending the filibuster count?

Or is that something you don't acknowledge Dems are attempting because of YOUR partisan loyalty?

---

Attempting change using constitutional methods is not the same as actual change achieved by undermining constitutional procedures. Election laws are one thing-the premise of those laws (that vote fraud exists at a large scale and changed the result of the 2020 election) is the real danger.

curtpenn said:

---

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

If the election was not stolen, then a majority of the voters are enemies of our republic and should be resisted by any and all means necessary.

---

Do you really believe this stuff or are you trolling?

---

I see you have your usual big bag of nothing. No surprise.

---

Your posting makes zero sense. The majority of the people are the enemy of the people. That is why I thought you had to be trolling. Turns out you actually believe this nonsense.

---

Doesn't require much knowledge to understand that being in a majority of any group means nothing. Sorry for your failure to grasp such a simple concept. Guess I gave you too much credit.

---

Being in the majority of voters means your candidate wins. That makes it more likely the rules of society will match what you desire.

I guess you want America to work in some other way, but I am going to stick with the idea of majority rule.

---

There is no magical virtue in majorities. This is the potentially fatal flaw of democracies. Culture matters.

---

What are you advocating for? How does a people best govern itself if not through democracy?

Mothra said:

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HuMcK said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Porteroso said:

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I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

---

Does making DC a state, packing the Court, amnesty for illegals, and ending the filibuster count?

Or is that something you don't acknowledge Dems are attempting because of YOUR partisan loyalty?

---

Maybe if they ever accomplish any of those things you can try and make a point. Until then, they don't compare with bills to change voting procedures that have already been signed in multiple states.

Booray said:

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Mothra said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

---

Does making DC a state, packing the Court, amnesty for illegals, and ending the filibuster count?

Or is that something you don't acknowledge Dems are attempting because of YOUR partisan loyalty?

---

Attempting change using constitutional methods is not the same as attempting change by undermining constitutional procedures. Election laws are one thing-the premise of those laws (that vote fraud exists and changed the result of the 2020 election) is the real danger.

---

Nice dance, but Mothra's point stands.

Florda_mike said:

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Liz is a snake just like her dad

Both need extinguished from politics and put out to graze

Just another deep swamp in the deep swamp preaching what deep swamp believes which is lies constantly

---

I disagree. You can have your opinions but you lose respect for your name calling.

bear2be2 said:

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Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

If the election was not stolen, then a majority of the voters are enemies of our republic and should be resisted by any and all means necessary.

---

Do you really believe this stuff or are you trolling?

---

I see you have your usual big bag of nothing. No surprise.

---

Your posting makes zero sense. The majority of the people are the enemy of the people. That is why I thought you had to be trolling. Turns out you actually believe this nonsense.

---

Curtpenn, like many in his generation, is struggling to cope with/adapt to the rapidly changing world around him. And like the snowflake he is, he wants the world to stop spinning (or more accurately, spin backwards) to accommodate him and the largely irrational fears that were exploited to radicalize him.

People like curt, wuzzy, florda and a number of others in that same demographic can't be reasoned with. They've decided they're right and everyone else is evil. It's pretty sad really, but the good news is that mentality will largely die with that generation. Those that follow aren't nearly so fearful or myopic.

---

Has it occurred to you, that the exact opposite is just as likely? That you are ignoring a Reality you do not like, and imposing your assumptions in place of fact?

The 'snowflake' and 'struggling to cope' cheap shots do not improve your argument, by the way.

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

If the election was not stolen, then a majority of the voters are enemies of our republic and should be resisted by any and all means necessary.

---

Do you really believe this stuff or are you trolling?

---

I see you have your usual big bag of nothing. No surprise.

---

Your posting makes zero sense. The majority of the people are the enemy of the people. That is why I thought you had to be trolling. Turns out you actually believe this nonsense.

---

Doesn't require much knowledge to understand that being in a majority of any group means nothing. Sorry for your failure to grasp such a simple concept. Guess I gave you too much credit.

---

Being in the majority of voters means your candidate wins. That makes it more likely the rules of society will match what you desire.

I guess you want America to work in some other way, but I am going to stick with the idea of majority rule.

---

There is no magical virtue in majorities. This is the potentially fatal flaw of democracies. Culture matters.

---

What are you advocating for? How does a people best govern itself if not through democracy?

---

By creating a culture that values, cherishes, recognizes, protects, and promotes the cardinal virtues.

HuMcK said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

You are purposefully conflating different things to form a straw-man you can use to justify your own behavior. First, Mueller was a Republican, appointed by a Republican, overseen by Republicans, to investigate Republicans. That's a more favorable a draw for Special Counsel than Trump deserved. Second, the impeachment had nothing to do with 2016 (although they should have pursued obstruction if Republicans had any integrity at all). Third, saying the Russians interfered in 2016 and members of the Trump campaign coordinated with that espionage (i.e. objective facts based on clear and convincing evidence), is not the same as saying the election was "stolen" through vague accusations of fraud like Trump is doing. But, you have to conflate them as being the same, I guess for your own conscience. Despite all of that, Hillary still called to concede the very next day, did Trump ever call Biden? Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

You're so caught up in your partisan loyalty that it's forcing you to refuse any acknowledgement of inconvenient reality, so you just blanket deny anything having to do with 2016/Russia no matter what evidence exists.

Not for nothing, but we did warn you years ago that if you elected Trump it would set us down a path of destabilization, and that's the exact reason why Russia favored him in in the first place. Well, whaddya know, 4yrs of Trump and the country seems a whole lot less stable than it did before, one side has even decided they don't like democracy anymore because they only represent a minority of voters. Trump and his hardcore supporters would be more than happy to ignite the country to keep him in power (see: events of 1/6), and the party he leads is too cowardly to even call him out for it, so here we are with the Cheney situation.

Accused pedophile Matt Gaetz has a home in the GOP, but not Liz Cheney, and that should tell you all you need to know.

---

So much stupid in your post it's not worth the time it would take to point out and explain all the flaws. No surprise.

Cheap shot is cheap shot.

Denying only makes you look worse.