Osodecentx said:

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Forest Bueller_bf said:

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RMF5630 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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I looked up the 2000 election and not sure how accurate the site I used was but this was the order of events in Florida.

Most of the state closed in the Eastern Time zone and news called Gore the winner but polls were still open in the panhandle in the Central Time Zone. The news retracted their winner declaration, the central time zone polls closed and Bush was declared the winner. Gore called him to concede, then retracted it. Then the news said it was too close to call. Then the recount happened.

So Bush led from the start after all polls had closed.

---

Panhandle is pure Red. Calling for Gore before Panhandle was counted in an close race was stupid, never should have happened.

---

Even 22 years ago MSM was cheering on one side.

---

I guess we need to curse God and die

---

An why would that be. That's silly. Stating a fact isn't.

Forest Bueller_bf said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

I looked up the 2000 election and not sure how accurate the site I used was but this was the order of events in Florida.

Most of the state closed in the Eastern Time zone and news called Gore the winner but polls were still open in the panhandle in the Central Time Zone. The news retracted their winner declaration, the central time zone polls closed and Bush was declared the winner. Gore called him to concede, then retracted it. Then the news said it was too close to call. Then the recount happened.

So Bush led from the start after all polls had closed.

---

Panhandle is pure Red. Calling for Gore before Panhandle was counted in an close race was stupid, never should have happened.

---

Even 22 years ago MSM was cheering on one side.

---

I guess we need to curse God and die

---

An why would that be. That's silly. Stating a fact isn't.

---

MSM cheered. We're ruined

Osodecentx said:

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Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

I looked up the 2000 election and not sure how accurate the site I used was but this was the order of events in Florida.

Most of the state closed in the Eastern Time zone and news called Gore the winner but polls were still open in the panhandle in the Central Time Zone. The news retracted their winner declaration, the central time zone polls closed and Bush was declared the winner. Gore called him to concede, then retracted it. Then the news said it was too close to call. Then the recount happened.

So Bush led from the start after all polls had closed.

---

Panhandle is pure Red. Calling for Gore before Panhandle was counted in an close race was stupid, never should have happened.

---

Even 22 years ago MSM was cheering on one side.

---

I guess we need to curse God and die

---

What you need to do, if you want fair elections, is to support audits, reject multi-day delays in "counting" ballots, ban vote-by-mail except for limited absentee voting and military, and require voter ID in every election.

On Election Day, Baltimore voters approved a referendum limiting local elected officials to two terms (eight years). Tonight, the City Council wasted no time in reducing the time needed for them to get a pension from 12 to 8 years. https://t.co/djstICXI4D

— Alec MacGillis (@AlecMacGillis) November 22, 2022

Oldbear83 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

I looked up the 2000 election and not sure how accurate the site I used was but this was the order of events in Florida.

Most of the state closed in the Eastern Time zone and news called Gore the winner but polls were still open in the panhandle in the Central Time Zone. The news retracted their winner declaration, the central time zone polls closed and Bush was declared the winner. Gore called him to concede, then retracted it. Then the news said it was too close to call. Then the recount happened.

So Bush led from the start after all polls had closed.

---

Panhandle is pure Red. Calling for Gore before Panhandle was counted in an close race was stupid, never should have happened.

---

Even 22 years ago MSM was cheering on one side.

---

I guess we need to curse God and die

---

What you need to do, if you want fair elections, is to support audits, reject multi-day delays in "counting" ballots, ban vote-by-mail except for limited absentee voting and military, and require voter ID in every election.

---

And to get to that point, we are going to have to do a better job of ballot harvesting than Democrats in at least 6 states.

WSJ election day poll released 14 Nov. Exhaustive detail.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-different-groups-voted-in-the-2022-midterm-elections-11667955705

BluesBear said:

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You can't use Total vote as a comparison for the 2020 Presidential election. CA along shifts that total...do you want CA making decisions for you...?

---

You were telling me the other day that you love abortion and gay rights. I thought you lived in San Fran when you weren't in London?

Maricopa County officials get put on blast for election-night disaster.

READ: https://t.co/oWp2hTDjSJ pic.twitter.com/JYvYpL8vc4

— Washington Examiner (@dcexaminer) November 28, 2022

Red county to be sued by Arizona for refusing to certify election results by deadline https://t.co/vYNb9lNTRL

— Washington Examiner (@dcexaminer) November 28, 2022

Cobretti said:

---

Red county to be sued by Arizona for refusing to certify election results by deadline https://t.co/vYNb9lNTRL

— Washington Examiner (@dcexaminer) November 28, 2022

---

Dems in 2016 - we need an investigation of the election results.

Dems in 2022 re: Maricopa County - meh, you lost. Get over it.


Do not pretend the left are "Defenders of Democracy". They could give 2 ****s what happened in Arizona as long as Kari Lake is not elected.

Look at this pompous, arrogant, elite SOB

Maricopa County just voted unanimously to certified one of the most egregious, botched elections in American history. Congratulations Maricopa, you have somehow managed to outdo yourself yet again. pic.twitter.com/HIYzjEs72x

— Charlie Kirk (@charliekirk11) November 28, 2022

News: @stephen_richer, the Maricopa County recorder, is launching a PAC to support Rs running for non-federal AZ offices who "acknowledge the validity of the 2020 election and condemn the events of Jan. 6, 2021 as a terrible result of the lies told about the November election."

— Meg Cunningham (@Meg_Cunn) November 17, 2021

When it comes to ballot harvesting, Pennsylvania’s Delaware County is not only the undisputed leader in Pennsylvania but possibly the nation. Let me explain. 🧵(1/32) pic.twitter.com/vi0AsPbaVs

— Athan Koutsiouroumbas (@Athan_K) November 29, 2022

Mail-In Ballot education and enrollment must be the PA Republican project for 2023, and, build upon it for 2024. Anything else is noise. (29/32)

— Athan Koutsiouroumbas (@Athan_K) November 29, 2022

Truth be told, Pennsylvania’s Democrats aren’t that great at ballot harvesting. If they are good at it, the hide it really well! In Florida, Republicans absolutely crush Mail-In Ballots. (31/32) https://t.co/NbJW2QhBDc

— Athan Koutsiouroumbas (@Athan_K) November 29, 2022

hmmm. narrative now turning to "GOP must do better on mail-in ballots."

Interesting.

Republicans on here keep arguing over Desantis vs Trump and the Democrats are laughing their butts off. They know the candidate doesnt matter at all: a dead guy, a brain dead guy getting the most ballots, with a senile pedophile Big Guy leading the party...

We need to stop arguing over Desantis vs Trump and start figuring out how to match and out do their ballot harvesting. Then we can put up Frankenstein's monster and win like they're doing.

Vote to approve the results or face jail time. Sounds like a THREAT TO DEMOCRACY to me.

🚨 Breaking 🚨

"I found out today that I have no choice but to vote "Aye" or I will be arrested and charged with a felony."

Ron Gould of the Mohave County Board of Supervisors was told he would be arrested if he did not certify the election.

Mohave was certified under duress. pic.twitter.com/Urt0aWIiyM

— Kari Lake War Room (@KariLakeWarRoom) November 29, 2022

Reminder that the GOP does not really want to win elections….

NEWS: John Thune, the No. 2 Senate GOP leader, says in interview Senate Repubs want to leverage the next US debt limit increase to force federal spending cuts and changes to Social Security and other entitlement programs.

— Laura Litvan (@LauraLitvan) November 29, 2022

Married A Horn said:

---

Republicans on here keep arguing over Desantis vs Trump and the Democrats are laughing their butts off. They know the candidate doesnt matter at all: a dead guy, a brain dead guy getting the most ballots, with a senile pedophile Big Guy leading the party...

We need to stop arguing over Desantis vs Trump and start figuring out how to match and out do their ballot harvesting. Then we can put up Frankenstein's monster and win like they're doing.

---

Correct.

Athan Koutsiouroumbas is a GOP consultant with a PA firm.

Married A Horn said:

---

Republicans on here keep arguing over Desantis vs Trump and the Democrats are laughing their butts off. They know the candidate doesnt matter at all: a dead guy, a brain dead guy getting the most ballots, with a senile pedophile Big Guy leading the party...

We need to stop arguing over Desantis vs Trump and start figuring out how to match and out do their ballot harvesting. Then we can put up Frankenstein's monster and win like they're doing.

---

I suppose the average person is more stupid than I acknowledge ... but I'll never figure out how anyone with a brain would have voted for Fetterman. It is difficult to compete against a vote harvesting machine and a Democrat-media industrial complex.

whiterock said:

---

WSJ election day poll released 14 Nov. Exhaustive detail.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-different-groups-voted-in-the-2022-midterm-elections-11667955705

---

WSJ editorial that supports your position on early voting.

Republicans Need to Embrace Early Voting
Election Day matters less than it used to. Unless the GOP adapts, it is doomed to keep losing.
By Arthur Herman
Disappointment over the red wave that didn't happen has led to soul-searching and recriminations among Republicans. Some blame Donald Trump, others Mitch McConnelland Kevin McCarthy. Still others blame the Supreme Court's reversal of Roe v. Wade. Republicans need to craft a new message or better package the old message. Republicans agree that they can turn things around before the 2024 election, but only if Mr. Trump doesn't runor only if he does.
But the GOP's real problem wasn't its message or the messengers. It was a more basic failure: not understanding or accepting how Americans today participate in elections. Early voting and mail-in balloting have irrevocably changed things. Election Day no longer counts as it once did. Yet Republicans continue to rely on a massive Election Day turnout to prevail, while conceding the rest of the electoral terrain to Democrats. When Democrats win, some Republicans blame election fraud or unfair practices instead of their own failure to adjust their ground game.
In fact, the more that Republicans decry mail-in ballots and early voting, and wish that somehow they could elect governors and state legislators who will bring back the good old days and the old rules, the more they miss an opportunity to seize the new electoral terrain from their opponents. If Republicans don't recognize the new rules that shape elections, 2024 will be as disappointing as 2022, if not more so.
Forty-six states allow early in-person voting; 27 don't require voters to justify using an absentee or mail-in ballot. Eight states, including Nevada and Oregon, conduct elections primarily by mail. Twenty-five states, including Florida, New York, and California, allow "ballot harvesting," in which someone other than the voter hands in absentee or mail-in ballots. According to the Los Angeles Times, this year nearly 46 million voters cast their ballots before Election Day. That's more than one-third (37%) of the total 122 million votes cast in the 2018 midterms, which was the highest midterm turnout rate since 1914.
TargetSmart, a political-data firm, calculatedon Oct. 24 that 55% of those early voters were Democrats, while less than 34.5% were Republicans. In Pennsylvania in 2020, more than half the ballots cast were either mail-in or absentee. This year in Pennsylvania's crucial Senate and gubernatorial contests, by Nov. 5 Democrats made up more than 80% of voters 18 to 29 who had voted early, while Republicans had barely 15%, with unaffiliated voters at 5%. Overall, the Washington Post estimated that one-third of all votes in the 2022 midterms would be cast early.
Republicans ignore early voting and mail-in balloting at their peril. According to Gallup, from 2010 to 2014 Republicans had the edge in early voting. But in the 2018 midterms, the GOP lead had slipped to 46% compared with 44.7% for Democrats. By the Biden-Trump election, the Democrats had a 54% to 32% advantage over Republicans, with 38% of independents voting before Election Day.
This suggests that Republican early voters, combined with a majority of their independent counterparts, could overwhelm the Democratsbut not if their candidates wait for Election Day to bring home the vote.
What can Republicans do to address the new electoral reality? First, make mail-in balloting an opportunity to flood the zone with sample ballots for registered voters. In Nevada, for example, every registered voter gets a mail-in ballot. Why not send a sample ballot to each a day or two earlier, with the GOP choices clearly marked and highlighted? Mail-in voting can be a powerful messaging opportunity. So can ballot harvesting, with GOP precinct workers gathering properly marked ballots from friends and neighbors.
Second, don't wait for televised debates or TV ads to turn the tide in the election's final days. The Pennsylvania Senate debate between Mehmet Oz and John Fetterman should have exposed the folly of this 1960s-style campaign strategy. Instead, the decisive platform for delivering messages is social media, operating in a longer time frame that fits with Americans' new voting habits.
Richard Nixonshowed in 1968 how to use television to win elections by answering callers' questions in a telethon. The next Republican president will be the one who understands how to use social medianot to berate and belittle opponents, let alone to discourage early voting as Mr. Trump did this cycle, but to build a compelling conservative narrative over the expanded timeline for voting.
Finally, after the 2008 election Republicans set up a GOP Data Center, with information about voters' habits and where they live. This trove could be used to create a new strategy for mobilizing traditional Republican voters with early-voting initiatives.
Republicans have been reluctant to abandon the traditions and mystique of Election Day. They should heed the wisdom of the French general who summed up the Charge of the Light Brigade: "It is magnificent, but it is not war." Republican reliance on Election Day turnout is magnificent, but it isn't politics in today's America.
Mr. Herman is a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-needs-to-embrace-early-voting-election-day-ballot-harvesting-social-media-absentee-habits-pennsylvania-11669913240?mod=opinion_lead_pos5

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

WSJ election day poll released 14 Nov. Exhaustive detail.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-different-groups-voted-in-the-2022-midterm-elections-11667955705

---

WSJ editorial that supports your position on early voting.

Republicans Need to Embrace Early Voting
Election Day matters less than it used to. Unless the GOP adapts, it is doomed to keep losing.
By Arthur Herman
Disappointment over the red wave that didn't happen has led to soul-searching and recriminations among Republicans. Some blame Donald Trump, others Mitch McConnelland Kevin McCarthy. Still others blame the Supreme Court's reversal of Roe v. Wade. Republicans need to craft a new message or better package the old message. Republicans agree that they can turn things around before the 2024 election, but only if Mr. Trump doesn't runor only if he does.
But the GOP's real problem wasn't its message or the messengers. It was a more basic failure: not understanding or accepting how Americans today participate in elections. Early voting and mail-in balloting have irrevocably changed things. Election Day no longer counts as it once did. Yet Republicans continue to rely on a massive Election Day turnout to prevail, while conceding the rest of the electoral terrain to Democrats. When Democrats win, some Republicans blame election fraud or unfair practices instead of their own failure to adjust their ground game.
In fact, the more that Republicans decry mail-in ballots and early voting, and wish that somehow they could elect governors and state legislators who will bring back the good old days and the old rules, the more they miss an opportunity to seize the new electoral terrain from their opponents. If Republicans don't recognize the new rules that shape elections, 2024 will be as disappointing as 2022, if not more so.
Forty-six states allow early in-person voting; 27 don't require voters to justify using an absentee or mail-in ballot. Eight states, including Nevada and Oregon, conduct elections primarily by mail. Twenty-five states, including Florida, New York, and California, allow "ballot harvesting," in which someone other than the voter hands in absentee or mail-in ballots. According to the Los Angeles Times, this year nearly 46 million voters cast their ballots before Election Day. That's more than one-third (37%) of the total 122 million votes cast in the 2018 midterms, which was the highest midterm turnout rate since 1914.
TargetSmart, a political-data firm, calculatedon Oct. 24 that 55% of those early voters were Democrats, while less than 34.5% were Republicans. In Pennsylvania in 2020, more than half the ballots cast were either mail-in or absentee. This year in Pennsylvania's crucial Senate and gubernatorial contests, by Nov. 5 Democrats made up more than 80% of voters 18 to 29 who had voted early, while Republicans had barely 15%, with unaffiliated voters at 5%. Overall, the Washington Post estimated that one-third of all votes in the 2022 midterms would be cast early.
Republicans ignore early voting and mail-in balloting at their peril. According to Gallup, from 2010 to 2014 Republicans had the edge in early voting. But in the 2018 midterms, the GOP lead had slipped to 46% compared with 44.7% for Democrats. By the Biden-Trump election, the Democrats had a 54% to 32% advantage over Republicans, with 38% of independents voting before Election Day.
This suggests that Republican early voters, combined with a majority of their independent counterparts, could overwhelm the Democratsbut not if their candidates wait for Election Day to bring home the vote.
What can Republicans do to address the new electoral reality? First, make mail-in balloting an opportunity to flood the zone with sample ballots for registered voters. In Nevada, for example, every registered voter gets a mail-in ballot. Why not send a sample ballot to each a day or two earlier, with the GOP choices clearly marked and highlighted? Mail-in voting can be a powerful messaging opportunity. So can ballot harvesting, with GOP precinct workers gathering properly marked ballots from friends and neighbors.
Second, don't wait for televised debates or TV ads to turn the tide in the election's final days. The Pennsylvania Senate debate between Mehmet Oz and John Fetterman should have exposed the folly of this 1960s-style campaign strategy. Instead, the decisive platform for delivering messages is social media, operating in a longer time frame that fits with Americans' new voting habits.
Richard Nixonshowed in 1968 how to use television to win elections by answering callers' questions in a telethon. The next Republican president will be the one who understands how to use social medianot to berate and belittle opponents, let alone to discourage early voting as Mr. Trump did this cycle, but to build a compelling conservative narrative over the expanded timeline for voting.
Finally, after the 2008 election Republicans set up a GOP Data Center, with information about voters' habits and where they live. This trove could be used to create a new strategy for mobilizing traditional Republican voters with early-voting initiatives.
Republicans have been reluctant to abandon the traditions and mystique of Election Day. They should heed the wisdom of the French general who summed up the Charge of the Light Brigade: "It is magnificent, but it is not war." Republican reliance on Election Day turnout is magnificent, but it isn't politics in today's America.
Mr. Herman is a senior fellow at the Hudson Institute.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-needs-to-embrace-early-voting-election-day-ballot-harvesting-social-media-absentee-habits-pennsylvania-11669913240?mod=opinion_lead_pos5

---

Early Voting is bad for democracy, but it is one of those situations where since it the thing, the GOP needs to get on board. Republicans will always suffer from two core headwinds:

• Having principles as a North Star is harder than a pure lust for power
• Not just giving away taxpayer-funded goodies to every constituency is a natural deficit

But agreed - the GOP needs to focus on exploiting vote harvesting, fraud, early voting, etc.

I'm thinking white rock is right on this one

Married A Horn said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Married A Horn said:

---

Republicans on here keep arguing over Desantis vs Trump and the Democrats are laughing their butts off. They know the candidate doesnt matter at all: a dead guy, a brain dead guy getting the most ballots, with a senile pedophile Big Guy leading the party...

We need to stop arguing over Desantis vs Trump and start figuring out how to match and out do their ballot harvesting. Then we can put up Frankenstein's monster and win like they're doing.

---

I suppose the average person is more stupid than I acknowledge ... but I'll never figure out how anyone with a brain would have voted for Fetterman. It is difficult to compete against a vote harvesting machine and a Democrat-media industrial complex.

---

You need to watch some man-on-the-street interviews with democrat voters. That will open your eyes to how stupid they are.

If a dead guy and a brain dead guy getting elected dont wake up republican leaders to the fact that the candidate doesnt matter
- we are in big trouble.

Put in a plastic blow up doll or someone's dog - who cares?!? If you dont vote harvest to match the evil pedo-supporting criminals, you lose.

---

The last two election cycles have clearly shown that with the possible exception of a few places like Florida and Texas, you can't win by running traditional campaigns based on demonstrating that you have the best candidates that will implement the best policies - even if your opponents are dementia stricken, brain damaged, and/or obvious morons who in no way mirror the. values of the majority of their constituents. It's now all about manipulating and gaming the electoral system through things like ballot harvesting, rampant unsecured mail in ballots, unconstitutionally changing state voting laws, taking advantage of vote counting that seems to almost never end, and just out and out fraud that nobody - including the court system - seems to care a wit about stopping. In other words - and it's sad to admit it - if the GOP doesn't figure out a way to "out cheat" the dimcrats going forward we can continue to expect the likes of dementia Joe, John Brain damaged Fetterman, and goofball Katie Hobbs to just keep "winning" elections. Of course a huge obstacle for the Republicans - and I have no idea how you overcome this - is the fact that they don't and never will have the MSM on their team constantly spinning and covering for as well as covering up for them.

But sadly, that's where we are.

Johnny Bear said:

---

Married A Horn said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Married A Horn said:

---

Republicans on here keep arguing over Desantis vs Trump and the Democrats are laughing their butts off. They know the candidate doesnt matter at all: a dead guy, a brain dead guy getting the most ballots, with a senile pedophile Big Guy leading the party...

We need to stop arguing over Desantis vs Trump and start figuring out how to match and out do their ballot harvesting. Then we can put up Frankenstein's monster and win like they're doing.

---

I suppose the average person is more stupid than I acknowledge ... but I'll never figure out how anyone with a brain would have voted for Fetterman. It is difficult to compete against a vote harvesting machine and a Democrat-media industrial complex.

---

You need to watch some man-on-the-street interviews with democrat voters. That will open your eyes to how stupid they are.

If a dead guy and a brain dead guy getting elected dont wake up republican leaders to the fact that the candidate doesnt matter
- we are in big trouble.

Put in a plastic blow up doll or someone's dog - who cares?!? If you dont vote harvest to match the evil pedo-supporting criminals, you lose.

---

The last two election cycles have clearly shown that with the possible exception of a few places like Florida and Texas, you can't win by running traditional campaigns based on demonstrating that you have the best candidates that will implement the best policies - even if your opponents are dementia stricken, brain damaged, and/or obvious morons who in no way mirror the. values of the majority of their constituents. It's now all about manipulating and gaming the electoral system through things like ballot harvesting, rampant unsecured mail in ballots, unconstitutionally changing state voting laws, taking advantage of vote counting that seems to almost never end, and just out and out fraud that nobody - including the court system - seems to care a wit about stopping. In other words - and it's sad to admit it - if the GOP doesn't figure out a way to "out cheat" the dimcrats going forward we can continue to expect the likes of dementia Joe, John Brain damaged Fetterman, and goofball Katie Hobbs to just keep "winning" elections. Of course a huge obstacle for the Republicans - and I have no idea how you overcome this - is the fact that they don't and never will have the MSM on their team constantly spinning and covering for as well as covering up for them.

But sadly, that's where we are.

---

Half the people in the country have below average intelligence. We have to find a way to include them in our coalition or the there is no math to victory.

whiterock said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

Married A Horn said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Married A Horn said:

---

Republicans on here keep arguing over Desantis vs Trump and the Democrats are laughing their butts off. They know the candidate doesnt matter at all: a dead guy, a brain dead guy getting the most ballots, with a senile pedophile Big Guy leading the party...

We need to stop arguing over Desantis vs Trump and start figuring out how to match and out do their ballot harvesting. Then we can put up Frankenstein's monster and win like they're doing.

---

I suppose the average person is more stupid than I acknowledge ... but I'll never figure out how anyone with a brain would have voted for Fetterman. It is difficult to compete against a vote harvesting machine and a Democrat-media industrial complex.

---

You need to watch some man-on-the-street interviews with democrat voters. That will open your eyes to how stupid they are.

If a dead guy and a brain dead guy getting elected dont wake up republican leaders to the fact that the candidate doesnt matter
- we are in big trouble.

Put in a plastic blow up doll or someone's dog - who cares?!? If you dont vote harvest to match the evil pedo-supporting criminals, you lose.

---

The last two election cycles have clearly shown that with the possible exception of a few places like Florida and Texas, you can't win by running traditional campaigns based on demonstrating that you have the best candidates that will implement the best policies - even if your opponents are dementia stricken, brain damaged, and/or obvious morons who in no way mirror the. values of the majority of their constituents. It's now all about manipulating and gaming the electoral system through things like ballot harvesting, rampant unsecured mail in ballots, unconstitutionally changing state voting laws, taking advantage of vote counting that seems to almost never end, and just out and out fraud that nobody - including the court system - seems to care a wit about stopping. In other words - and it's sad to admit it - if the GOP doesn't figure out a way to "out cheat" the dimcrats going forward we can continue to expect the likes of dementia Joe, John Brain damaged Fetterman, and goofball Katie Hobbs to just keep "winning" elections. Of course a huge obstacle for the Republicans - and I have no idea how you overcome this - is the fact that they don't and never will have the MSM on their team constantly spinning and covering for as well as covering up for them.

But sadly, that's where we are.

---

Half the people in the country have below average intelligence. We have to find a way to include them in our coalition or the there is no math to victory.

---

Dems have already engineered the winning solution .



Handouts

Canada2017 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

Married A Horn said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Married A Horn said:

---

Republicans on here keep arguing over Desantis vs Trump and the Democrats are laughing their butts off. They know the candidate doesnt matter at all: a dead guy, a brain dead guy getting the most ballots, with a senile pedophile Big Guy leading the party...

We need to stop arguing over Desantis vs Trump and start figuring out how to match and out do their ballot harvesting. Then we can put up Frankenstein's monster and win like they're doing.

---

I suppose the average person is more stupid than I acknowledge ... but I'll never figure out how anyone with a brain would have voted for Fetterman. It is difficult to compete against a vote harvesting machine and a Democrat-media industrial complex.

---

You need to watch some man-on-the-street interviews with democrat voters. That will open your eyes to how stupid they are.

If a dead guy and a brain dead guy getting elected dont wake up republican leaders to the fact that the candidate doesnt matter
- we are in big trouble.

Put in a plastic blow up doll or someone's dog - who cares?!? If you dont vote harvest to match the evil pedo-supporting criminals, you lose.

---

The last two election cycles have clearly shown that with the possible exception of a few places like Florida and Texas, you can't win by running traditional campaigns based on demonstrating that you have the best candidates that will implement the best policies - even if your opponents are dementia stricken, brain damaged, and/or obvious morons who in no way mirror the. values of the majority of their constituents. It's now all about manipulating and gaming the electoral system through things like ballot harvesting, rampant unsecured mail in ballots, unconstitutionally changing state voting laws, taking advantage of vote counting that seems to almost never end, and just out and out fraud that nobody - including the court system - seems to care a wit about stopping. In other words - and it's sad to admit it - if the GOP doesn't figure out a way to "out cheat" the dimcrats going forward we can continue to expect the likes of dementia Joe, John Brain damaged Fetterman, and goofball Katie Hobbs to just keep "winning" elections. Of course a huge obstacle for the Republicans - and I have no idea how you overcome this - is the fact that they don't and never will have the MSM on their team constantly spinning and covering for as well as covering up for them.

But sadly, that's where we are.

---

Half the people in the country have below average intelligence. We have to find a way to include them in our coalition or the there is no math to victory.

---

Dems have already engineered the winning solution .



Handouts

---

Even if they don't materialize because they are unconstitutional (i.e. student loan repayments).

BearFan33 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Johnny Bear said:

---

Married A Horn said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Married A Horn said:

---

Republicans on here keep arguing over Desantis vs Trump and the Democrats are laughing their butts off. They know the candidate doesnt matter at all: a dead guy, a brain dead guy getting the most ballots, with a senile pedophile Big Guy leading the party...

We need to stop arguing over Desantis vs Trump and start figuring out how to match and out do their ballot harvesting. Then we can put up Frankenstein's monster and win like they're doing.

---

I suppose the average person is more stupid than I acknowledge ... but I'll never figure out how anyone with a brain would have voted for Fetterman. It is difficult to compete against a vote harvesting machine and a Democrat-media industrial complex.

---

You need to watch some man-on-the-street interviews with democrat voters. That will open your eyes to how stupid they are.

If a dead guy and a brain dead guy getting elected dont wake up republican leaders to the fact that the candidate doesnt matter
- we are in big trouble.

Put in a plastic blow up doll or someone's dog - who cares?!? If you dont vote harvest to match the evil pedo-supporting criminals, you lose.

---

The last two election cycles have clearly shown that with the possible exception of a few places like Florida and Texas, you can't win by running traditional campaigns based on demonstrating that you have the best candidates that will implement the best policies - even if your opponents are dementia stricken, brain damaged, and/or obvious morons who in no way mirror the. values of the majority of their constituents. It's now all about manipulating and gaming the electoral system through things like ballot harvesting, rampant unsecured mail in ballots, unconstitutionally changing state voting laws, taking advantage of vote counting that seems to almost never end, and just out and out fraud that nobody - including the court system - seems to care a wit about stopping. In other words - and it's sad to admit it - if the GOP doesn't figure out a way to "out cheat" the dimcrats going forward we can continue to expect the likes of dementia Joe, John Brain damaged Fetterman, and goofball Katie Hobbs to just keep "winning" elections. Of course a huge obstacle for the Republicans - and I have no idea how you overcome this - is the fact that they don't and never will have the MSM on their team constantly spinning and covering for as well as covering up for them.

But sadly, that's where we are.

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Half the people in the country have below average intelligence. We have to find a way to include them in our coalition or the there is no math to victory.

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Dems have already engineered the winning solution .



Handouts

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Even if they don't materialize because they are unconstitutional (i.e. student loan repayments).

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Exactly


But it was a brilliant move .

Garnered hundreds of thousands of votes while knowing full well such a handout was unlikely to be implemented.

Canada2017 said:

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BearFan33 said:

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Canada2017 said:

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whiterock said:

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Johnny Bear said:

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Married A Horn said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Married A Horn said:

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Republicans on here keep arguing over Desantis vs Trump and the Democrats are laughing their butts off. They know the candidate doesnt matter at all: a dead guy, a brain dead guy getting the most ballots, with a senile pedophile Big Guy leading the party...

We need to stop arguing over Desantis vs Trump and start figuring out how to match and out do their ballot harvesting. Then we can put up Frankenstein's monster and win like they're doing.

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I suppose the average person is more stupid than I acknowledge ... but I'll never figure out how anyone with a brain would have voted for Fetterman. It is difficult to compete against a vote harvesting machine and a Democrat-media industrial complex.

---

You need to watch some man-on-the-street interviews with democrat voters. That will open your eyes to how stupid they are.

If a dead guy and a brain dead guy getting elected dont wake up republican leaders to the fact that the candidate doesnt matter
- we are in big trouble.

Put in a plastic blow up doll or someone's dog - who cares?!? If you dont vote harvest to match the evil pedo-supporting criminals, you lose.

---

The last two election cycles have clearly shown that with the possible exception of a few places like Florida and Texas, you can't win by running traditional campaigns based on demonstrating that you have the best candidates that will implement the best policies - even if your opponents are dementia stricken, brain damaged, and/or obvious morons who in no way mirror the. values of the majority of their constituents. It's now all about manipulating and gaming the electoral system through things like ballot harvesting, rampant unsecured mail in ballots, unconstitutionally changing state voting laws, taking advantage of vote counting that seems to almost never end, and just out and out fraud that nobody - including the court system - seems to care a wit about stopping. In other words - and it's sad to admit it - if the GOP doesn't figure out a way to "out cheat" the dimcrats going forward we can continue to expect the likes of dementia Joe, John Brain damaged Fetterman, and goofball Katie Hobbs to just keep "winning" elections. Of course a huge obstacle for the Republicans - and I have no idea how you overcome this - is the fact that they don't and never will have the MSM on their team constantly spinning and covering for as well as covering up for them.

But sadly, that's where we are.

---

Half the people in the country have below average intelligence. We have to find a way to include them in our coalition or the there is no math to victory.

---

Dems have already engineered the winning solution .



Handouts

---

Even if they don't materialize because they are unconstitutional (i.e. student loan repayments).

---

Exactly


But it was a brilliant move .

Garnered hundreds of thousands of votes while knowing full well such a handout was unlikely to be implemented.

---

....and then pounding that demographic with emails, texts, phone calls reminding them what the Biden Admin did for them, that a GOP Congress could undo it all....so please register, cast ballot, donate $20 etc...... Younger generation will drop $20 on a virtue posture like they were getting late-evening business services for it. Meanwhile, we have our own who virtue posture about NOT donating to candidates.

In a closely divided purple state, it only takes an extra 20-30k votes win a state wide race. They got that from the young, the unmarried women, etc.....because they dug and scratched for it like they wer...uh, chasing late-evening business.

Married A Horn said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Married A Horn said:

---

Republicans on here keep arguing over Desantis vs Trump and the Democrats are laughing their butts off. They know the candidate doesnt matter at all: a dead guy, a brain dead guy getting the most ballots, with a senile pedophile Big Guy leading the party...

We need to stop arguing over Desantis vs Trump and start figuring out how to match and out do their ballot harvesting. Then we can put up Frankenstein's monster and win like they're doing.

---

I suppose the average person is more stupid than I acknowledge ... but I'll never figure out how anyone with a brain would have voted for Fetterman. It is difficult to compete against a vote harvesting machine and a Democrat-media industrial complex.

---

You need to watch some man-on-the-street interviews with democrat voters. That will open your eyes to how stupid they are.

If a dead guy and a brain dead guy getting elected dont wake up republican leaders to the fact that the candidate doesnt matter
- we are in big trouble.

Put in a plastic blow up doll or someone's dog - who cares?!? If you dont vote harvest to match the evil pedo-supporting criminals, you lose.

---

All we have to do is watch your posting to see the flip side of the coin.

The truth is its hard to be right about everything. And on many issues, there is no right, only commonly held opinions, then fringe opinions. Politics in 2022 is all about mixing in enough fringe/extremist talk to keep you riled up and convinced the "other side" is truly demonic, with a healthy helping of reasonable views on most things.

People on both sides eat it up like candy. You just need to look in the mirror. You think you're not mainstream Republican, but you're exactly mainstream fundie conservative.

You're exactly like the Democrat voters that buy into mainstream progressive liberal ideas. Don't get me started on how not classically liberal and actually regressive many of them are.

Porteroso said:

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Married A Horn said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Married A Horn said:

---

Republicans on here keep arguing over Desantis vs Trump and the Democrats are laughing their butts off. They know the candidate doesnt matter at all: a dead guy, a brain dead guy getting the most ballots, with a senile pedophile Big Guy leading the party...

We need to stop arguing over Desantis vs Trump and start figuring out how to match and out do their ballot harvesting. Then we can put up Frankenstein's monster and win like they're doing.

---

I suppose the average person is more stupid than I acknowledge ... but I'll never figure out how anyone with a brain would have voted for Fetterman. It is difficult to compete against a vote harvesting machine and a Democrat-media industrial complex.

---

You need to watch some man-on-the-street interviews with democrat voters. That will open your eyes to how stupid they are.

If a dead guy and a brain dead guy getting elected dont wake up republican leaders to the fact that the candidate doesnt matter
- we are in big trouble.

Put in a plastic blow up doll or someone's dog - who cares?!? If you dont vote harvest to match the evil pedo-supporting criminals, you lose.

---

All we have to do is watch your posting to see the flip side of the coin.

The truth is its hard to be right about everything. And on many issues, there is no right, only commonly held opinions, then fringe opinions. Politics in 2022 is all about mixing in enough fringe/extremist talk to keep you riled up and convinced the "other side" is truly demonic, with a healthy helping of reasonable views on most things.

People on both sides eat it up like candy. You just need to look in the mirror. You think you're not mainstream Republican, but you're exactly mainstream fundie conservative.

You're exactly like the Democrat voters that buy into mainstream progressive liberal ideas. Don't get me started on how not classically liberal and actually regressive many of them are.

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I got a kick out of that word salad of contradictions in bold, but you are in a broad sense correct. There was a day when liberals and conservatives cooperated in social contract based on classical liberalism. But liberals left that social contract and joined with progressives, who specifically reject classical liberalism, to begin to slowly ostracize first conservatives then, increasingly, anyone who disagrees with social justice ideologies.

Two very good books on that subject:
"Why Liberalism Failed" by Patrick Deneen
"Return of the Strong Gods" by R.R. Reno

The classical liberals of today are the conservatives, who still believe in rule of constitutionally limited government, equal standing under the law, free speech, free assembly, etc...."the bridge" I have referred to before...classical liberalism as the bridge where reason and compassion meet to solve problems. Ironically, the leftward move of the old-school liberals has caused them to fall into profound framing bias, positioning themselves as centrists with progressives as "far left" and conservatives as "far right."

Both can be true. The Democrats do a better job at getting votes on the periphery, and candidates matter.

In situations of two bad candidates or two good candidates, the better vote operation will win. The biggest change has been the absentee ballot since COVID. That has to be addressed at the state level.

But Democrats have always been accused of vote harvesting for as long as I can remember. That's a practical issue Republicans will always struggle with because densely populated areas tend to lean Democratic, and heavily in many places. You need voters to have votes (at least names on rolls) to even sway it. Republican's challenge is getting extremely high turnout in very dispersed regions. That's more expensive and time consuming.

As a party you have more control over the candidates you run than what a) the other side does and b) what opposition states and election boards will do. In the majority of cases, when a good candidate ran, they won. Do better with candidates and eliminate the self created divide within the party or the current trajectory isn't going to change. Ballot harvesting is a distraction from realistically fixable problems.

Let’s get it done and elect @HerschelWalker to the U.S. Senate! pic.twitter.com/G2qXfPj83h

— Brian Kemp (@BrianKempGA) December 2, 2022

Only slightly late Kemp- better late than never!

4th and Inches said:

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Let’s get it done and elect @HerschelWalker to the U.S. Senate! pic.twitter.com/G2qXfPj83h

— Brian Kemp (@BrianKempGA) December 2, 2022

Only slightly late Kemp- better late than never!

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Damn RINOs

Osodecentx said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Let’s get it done and elect @HerschelWalker to the U.S. Senate! pic.twitter.com/G2qXfPj83h

— Brian Kemp (@BrianKempGA) December 2, 2022

Only slightly late Kemp- better late than never!

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Damn RINOs

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one of the brightest lines on that score is how well a Gov does in turning their state red.

Rick Perry did it. Ron DeSantis did it.

Kemp hasn't. Scott Walker (despite a lot of promise) didn't. Did they try? They'll say they did, but as Bill Parcells observed "at some point, you are your record." Kemp has presided over a red-state solidifying as a purple-state. Walker did not fundamentally change WI from purple to red.

And then they are the the Romneys and Hogans and Christies, etc.... who don't even try. Most blue state Republicans suffer framing bias from just being blue state governors. They cannot conceive of doing what a Perry or DeSantis has done and instead operate within the constraints of a blue state. Implicit in that is avoiding most of the GOP platform, being fearful of appearing to actually embrace much conservatism at all. In that mindset, "conservative" is merely a word which means "not liberal." GOP House caucus seems particularly predilected to elect blue state Republicans to leadership, invariably causing a case of alligator arms toward the party platform, leading to much consternation in the GOP base.

It's hard work changing minds on the meanings of things, to include defining one's opponents. Dems are way better at it.

If you do not work to change or keep your state red, it will not happen. A red state governor has to constantly cajole the donor class to embrace the partisan struggle, or it typically will not. Donor class as a rule is far more interested in access than in partisan nonsense.

Kemp is indeed late to the party.

whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Let’s get it done and elect @HerschelWalker to the U.S. Senate! pic.twitter.com/G2qXfPj83h

— Brian Kemp (@BrianKempGA) December 2, 2022

Only slightly late Kemp- better late than never!

---

Damn RINOs

---

one of the brightest lines on that score is how well a Gov does in turning their state red.

Rick Perry did it. Ron DeSantis did it.

Kemp hasn't. Scott Walker (despite a lot of promise) didn't. Did they try? They'll say they did, but as Bill Parcells observed "at some point, you are your record." Kemp has presided over a red-state solidifying as a purple-state. Walker did not fundamentally change WI from purple to red.

And then they are the the Romneys and Hogans and Christies, etc.... who don't even try. Most blue state Republicans suffer framing bias from just being blue state governors. They cannot conceive of doing what a Perry or DeSantis has done and instead operate within the constraints of a blue state. Implicit in that is avoiding most of the GOP platform, being fearful of appearing to actually embrace much conservatism at all. In that mindset, "conservative" is merely a word which means "not liberal." GOP House caucus seems particularly predilected to elect blue state Republicans to leadership, invariably causing a case of alligator arms toward the party platform, leading to much consternation in the GOP base.

It's hard work changing minds on the meanings of things, to include defining one's opponents. Dems are way better at it.

If you do not work to change or keep your state red, it will not happen. A red state governor has to constantly cajole the donor class to embrace the partisan struggle, or it typically will not. Donor class as a rule is far more interested in access than in partisan nonsense.

Kemp is indeed late to the party.

---

Complete and utter horse manure. The state legislature and all state-wide positions have remained as red as any state in the union. The House even picked up positions it lost due to the Trump effect of 2020 thanks in large part to the actions of the state legislature and Kemp's management of the state.

The sun rises and sets on Trump for you die hards. It's amazing the political mythology and party division you guys are willing to sew with zero reasons other than you don't feel someone is as loyal to Trump as they should be.

whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Let’s get it done and elect @HerschelWalker to the U.S. Senate! pic.twitter.com/G2qXfPj83h

— Brian Kemp (@BrianKempGA) December 2, 2022

Only slightly late Kemp- better late than never!

---

Damn RINOs

---

one of the brightest lines on that score is how well a Gov does in turning their state red.

Rick Perry did it. Ron DeSantis did it.

Kemp hasn't. Scott Walker (despite a lot of promise) didn't. Did they try? They'll say they did, but as Bill Parcells observed "at some point, you are your record." Kemp has presided over a red-state solidifying as a purple-state. Walker did not fundamentally change WI from purple to red.

And then they are the the Romneys and Hogans and Christies, etc.... who don't even try. Most blue state Republicans suffer framing bias from just being blue state governors. They cannot conceive of doing what a Perry or DeSantis has done and instead operate within the constraints of a blue state. Implicit in that is avoiding most of the GOP platform, being fearful of appearing to actually embrace much conservatism at all. In that mindset, "conservative" is merely a word which means "not liberal." GOP House caucus seems particularly predilected to elect blue state Republicans to leadership, invariably causing a case of alligator arms toward the party platform, leading to much consternation in the GOP base.

It's hard work changing minds on the meanings of things, to include defining one's opponents. Dems are way better at it.

If you do not work to change or keep your state red, it will not happen. A red state governor has to constantly cajole the donor class to embrace the partisan struggle, or it typically will not. Donor class as a rule is far more interested in access than in partisan nonsense.

Kemp is indeed late to the party.

---

I thought W Bush turned Texas red. Every statewide office holder since Bush has been Republican
Ann Richard's, Hightower, & plaintiff bar chipped in