C. Jordan said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Congratulations to the Senate democrats

for suddenly pulling ahead

& winning surprise victories

By the perfect margins

4 days after polls close

In the dead of night

Only in states with mail in voting

For the 2nd time in a row.

We’d never seen anything like it

In 244yrs.

— The Redheaded libertarian (@TRHLofficial) November 13, 2022

---

That's right.

Attack hard-working poll workers instead of admitting that America rejected your ideas.

The basic truths of this election are:

1. Republicans rightly identified inflation as a major concern but failed to note that concern about abortion rights was nearly as high. They also failed to say what they would do about inflation. All they could do was blame Biden for it.

2. Though criticized for it, Democrats' closing arguments about protecting democracy and restoring abortion rights were powerful.

3. Trump continued to be a drag on the party, causing it to put forward awful candidates, when other candidates would have won easily. Now, Trump has cost Reps 2018. 2020, and 2022.

I advise trying a message that actually works instead of being like Trump and constantly crying you wuz robbed.

---

Which ideas has America overwhelmingly rejected ?

---

Extremism

A stolen election

Outlawing abortion

Immigration cruelty

Cutting taxes as your only economic policy

Impeaching Biden

Impeaching Garland

Just to name a few.

Republicans centered on inflation and crime. But other than blame Democrats for them, they offered no solutions to them. Just outrage about them.

---

Well, let me see:

Extremism - certainly not as bas as what we have seen and heard from The Squad or 'Build Back Biden'

A stolen election - there is reason to doubt, and frankly the Democrats have fed that doubt

Outlawing abortion - that depends on the State, the Federal Government has done nothing of the kind

Immigration cruelty - you would need to see former President Obama about that

Cutting taxes as your only economic policy - not true, but small wonder you are unaware of anything but your spending

Impeaching Biden - has not happened, and since it could do no better than create 'President Harris' it won't

Impeaching Garland - would make sense but up to now nothing of the sort has occurred

I think I shall dismiss your post as presumptive and biased.

C. Jordan said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Congratulations to the Senate democrats

for suddenly pulling ahead

& winning surprise victories

By the perfect margins

4 days after polls close

In the dead of night

Only in states with mail in voting

For the 2nd time in a row.

We’d never seen anything like it

In 244yrs.

— The Redheaded libertarian (@TRHLofficial) November 13, 2022

---

That's right.

Attack hard-working poll workers instead of admitting that America rejected your ideas.

The basic truths of this election are:

1. Republicans rightly identified inflation as a major concern but failed to note that concern about abortion rights was nearly as high. They also failed to say what they would do about inflation. All they could do was blame Biden for it.

2. Though criticized for it, Democrats' closing arguments about protecting democracy and restoring abortion rights were powerful.

3. Trump continued to be a drag on the party, causing it to put forward awful candidates, when other candidates would have won easily. Now, Trump has cost Reps 2018. 2020, and 2022.

I advise trying a message that actually works instead of being like Trump and constantly crying you wuz robbed.

---

Which ideas has America overwhelmingly rejected ?

---

Extremism

A stolen election

Outlawing abortion

Immigration cruelty

Cutting taxes as your only economic policy

Impeaching Biden

Impeaching Garland

Just to name a few.

Republicans centered on inflation and crime. But other than blame Democrats for them, they offered no solutions to them. Just outrage about them.

---

Thank you

Serious question ( s )


In your view at what stage should abortion be prohibited ?

First trimester…2nd….when the baby's head enters the birthing canal….6 days post delivery ?

We have admitted over 2 million illegals in the last year alone .
Which country in the world takes more ? So exactly what cruelty are you referring to ?

C. Jordan said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Congratulations to the Senate democrats

for suddenly pulling ahead

& winning surprise victories

By the perfect margins

4 days after polls close

In the dead of night

Only in states with mail in voting

For the 2nd time in a row.

We’d never seen anything like it

In 244yrs.

— The Redheaded libertarian (@TRHLofficial) November 13, 2022

---

That's right.

Attack hard-working poll workers instead of admitting that America rejected your ideas.

The basic truths of this election are:

1. Republicans rightly identified inflation as a major concern but failed to note that concern about abortion rights was nearly as high. They also failed to say what they would do about inflation. All they could do was blame Biden for it.

2. Though criticized for it, Democrats' closing arguments about protecting democracy and restoring abortion rights were powerful.

3. Trump continued to be a drag on the party, causing it to put forward awful candidates, when other candidates would have won easily. Now, Trump has cost Reps 2018. 2020, and 2022.

I advise trying a message that actually works instead of being like Trump and constantly crying you wuz robbed.

---

Which ideas has America overwhelmingly rejected ?

---

. But other than blame Democrats for them, they offered no solutions to them. Just outrage about them.

---

this is the important part..

The rest plays a part but no plan is the big sticking point.

They have called AZ 01 for GOP so that means the House has flipped.

150 years…still the same

Redbrickbear said:

---

150 years…still the same

---

One of the biggest myths of US history ...the fantasy that our elections have been traditionally free of voter fraud .

.

Canada2017 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

150 years…still the same

---

One of the biggest myths of US history ...the fantasy that our elections have been traditionally free of voter fraud .

.

---

There is always fraud. Question is at levels that can throw an election. More important are voting rules that allow participation, but are secure. Whether States follow those rules is past piece. Been a struggle for over a century.

RMF5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

We need to dump Trump, but if we go back to Romney and Paul Ryan types, I'm not supporting the party at all.

---

Agreed.

Spine is a must-have.

---

Spine is one thing. Brown Shirt intimidation is another.

You can't govern to spite 50% of the populati0n. You can't intimidate people from running for office with threats. This is not the 2016 Trump and the MAGA hat. For whatever reason, no matter who is right or wrong, MAGA has morphed into a vindictive, threatening group that has no tolerance for anyone that does not think like them. That is NOT a governing party. That is a danger.

---

Democrats do that. Literally. Calling half the public a threat to democracy. Using the full range of federal and state level agencies to investigate and prosecute the standard bearer of the opposing party for 6 full years (so far batting .0000)

You need to listen to less MSNBC.

---

And the result? Nation is In such good shape. Between Progressives and MAGAs nothing getting done. GOP just had a loser midterm, chance Dems are keeping both Sen and Houe. MAGA only, Trump can save the Nation **** has just about set us up for checkmate. Trump and his cronies energizes Dems. They want him front and center. Independents broke for Dems, not Trump.

By the way, quit with the insult ***** You spout ho mature you are and then go MSNBC insult ***** Grow up.

---

Just noting the convergence of your messaging here and the messaging on the TV. The themes are congruent. You're mad we lost and you're just going to blame not just Trump, but the entire MAGA movement. That is exactly what Liz Cheney wants you to do. She did make quite a public spectacle promising to defeat these "weak" GOP candidates rather than helping them across the finish line. Why on earth aren't you furious with her?

There's all kinds of cause/effect problems with your reasoning. Is the nation in bad shape because of the Biden agenda, or because Republicans won't compromise with it? Sure, it always sounds & feels good to be an adult and"get things done," but what things? Compromise for the sake of compromise? No matter how harmful the proposals from the other side are? Do they ever do that with us? I would propose that the nation is in difficulty because of bad Democrat policies across the board, and that a return to the policies of prior Republican Administrations is the answer. It is a fools errand to think we win elections by going along with the very policies that have delivered historically bad econometric data and a very dissatisified electorate.

And, again, what we see is that Dems are going to demonize the GOP in order to turn out the Dem base no matter who is on the ticket. We cannot hide. If we disagree with them, we will be called a threat to democracy. We have to go out and smack them back. We did not do that. We let the party who turned the FBI/DOJ loose on PTA moms....the party who initiated investigations of Elon Musk solely because he bought a messaging platform that has been loyal to the left.....the party of wokeness and cancel culture and cashless bail....etc..... We let those intolerant bigots call us a threat to democracy. That has got to stop. We've got to get on message and define Democrats and their agenda as intolerant, bigoted, normophobic, and down right destructive to a free and prosperous society. That is kinda the Desantis message, you know.

There is much to criticize about Trump.
But you're criticizing of MAGA is Liz Cheney-level bull*****
It will not deliver election victory.
It will only cause an enormous percentage of your voters to give you the middle finger next election and stay home.
Politics is addition, not division.

Booray said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Adriacus Peratuun said:

---

Every stupid self-serving Trump tweet simply pushes a few more people over to Desantis.

Sununu and Haley can [if they are smart team players] kill a Trump candidacy early. Let him lose 7-8 of the first 10 primaries and he is done.

---

Best way they can do that is to stay out of the race. The more candidates that enter, the harder it will be to defeat Trump. All it will do is divide up the non-Trump vote as the primaries turn winner-take-all. His core base will stand strong.

He's been in the mid-50's all year. I'd be guesstimating on what is his hard floor, but if it's 40% or better he's invulnerable in anything larger than a three horse race. and I don't think it would be much less than 40%.

The folks here who want to move on from Trump are not being unrealistic in their desire, only about how hard it could be to beat him. And they're being even less realistic about how hard it will be to find another candidate capable of inspiring firing up conservative voters to the point of spontaneous boat parades.

Desantis has some stuff going for him, for sure. But the crowd here is letting their hopes get way out over the tips of their analysis

---

It shouldn't be hard to defeat him. The fact it could be is an indictment on the people who continue to prop him up. Please stop.

---

It amazes me that after Tuesday, anyone still thinks Trump should be the next Republican nominee. If 2020 didn't prove he's going to get his ass kicked in a general election, his myriad of legal troubles and unethical behavior since then, as well as the resounding defeat of Trumpism this past Tuesday, should have waken them to this fact.

Alas, we are very slow learners.

---

Some are simply incapable of adjusting long held thought processes .

The fact remains…….Trump is poisonous to the Republican Party .

Which is why Dems actively keep his name in the public spotlight .

---

You are correct. I am hearing from more and more high up company officials they are glad that someone is showing up that can knock Trump out of the limelight. Sick of his antics. I believe those that think Trump is the power in the GOP are going to be very surprised when they see how quick people jump on an alternative that is an adult and is able to get things done. Got to work in the system, not blow it up. Or, we become a banana republic.

---

I agree. I think Trump's continued obsession with the 2020 election and refusal to actually support any candidates financially weakened him. Tuesday's results really harmed his position. His petulant, unprovoked attacks on DeSantis - the biggest winner Tuesday - really make him look like a moron.

Not that anyone doubted it was always just about Trump, but now he's leaving no doubt it always was just about Trump. I think he's done.

---

He is making money on all this. I just found out that he is not helping even his MAGA candidates. Guy needs to go away before he causes more damage.

The fact that the GOP is having problems winning against the Squad, Biden and the rest of the platform this bunch is running on shows MAGA IS NOT WORKING. Trump has become Hillary! A candidate so unlikable that you can run anyone against him and win.

Watch GOP will jettison him quickly now. I really suspect he will start his own 3rd Party and run under that mantle. Perot #2...

---

The old GOP will kick him to the curb. There problem is that if they do, they lose 5-10% of their party-not to the Dems but to apathy or to third-party crazy candidates. That doesn't matter much in 95% of races where, because of gerrymandering or state demographics, the outcome is predetermined. But it matters in Arizona, in Pennsylvannia, in Nevada, in Georgia, in Wisconsin, in Michigan. And in about 50 house races.

The trick is to get rid of Trump but keep his cult of personality followers voting. That is what makes DeSantis intriguing-he seems by the far the most likeley to pull it off.

---

That part in bold is off by more than 2x on the bigger number, but otherwise you are spot on.

sombear said:

---

Passing along some fascinating vote info from GOP. Much of this is public by now:

* Record % of voters made up their mind the last few days.
* Record ticket-splitting - e.g., vote for GOP Gov but Dem Senate, hurting GOP in GA, NV, AZ, OH, NH
* Independents broke hard and late for Dems - almost never happens in midterm with unpopular Pres. Even pronounced in key races.
* GOP met turnout metrics.
* GOP will win popular vote by 4% with little or nothing to show for it.
* Unusually high % of voters voted against their top issue - e.g., Fetterman won majority of voters who cited crime as their top issue; Warnock leading among those saying inflation top issue.
* Suburbs hurt the GOP overall, but strong for GOP in FL, NY, TX, and a few other states.
* As I posted before the election, GOP Senate candidate quality was around -2.5%, meaning based on metrics, the entire slate of GOP candidates was 2.5% behind an average slate. I did not get breakdowns, but that likely means some of our worst GOP Senate candidates were easily -5% to -7%, which is historically bad.
* GOP House candidates were an average +2 quality. Strong slate.
* In House, outside of FL, NY, and CA (likely), GOP did good enough to make tough races close but still lose. In other words, GOP made races close where they were substantial underdogs, but could not get over the edge in races where they were close underdogs. If there were any sort of wave (which is typical with an unpopular Pres) GOP would have got the extra ~1% it needed in tens of races.
* GOP continued to improve with Hispanics, African Americans, and Asians.
* Weak Gov/Senate candidates hurt GOP House races in PA, MI, MD, NH. Zeldin, even though he lost, was huge for GOP House in NY.
* Trump disapproval among all voters was ~60%. Biden disapproval was ~55%. Trump also worse on "strong disapproval."
* Record high approval for Pelosi - due to sympathy over attack on husband. One GOP insider believes this incident had more impact than any other single recent issue, which I find hard to believe.
* About the same % of voters made their decision based on Biden (for or against) and Trump (for or against). This is unprecedented. Midterm has always been a verdict on a sitting Pres, with leading opposition figure barely on radar.

---

Worth noting that Romney met his turnout metrics, too. They were just the wrong metrics.

The electorate is not a static thing. A not-terribly-political single divorced woman with kids can be appealed to as a single mom, or as an unmarried career woman, or as an anti abortion voter, or as a "am I safe walking to work" voter. If Republicans pick the second best of those four things to appeal to her, you leave an opening for Democrats to appeal to the first. And that's pretty much what happened. Democrats had a message which trumped ours.

McCarthy and McConnell should lose their leadership jobs over this.
They won't.
But they should.

sombear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

First time i have seen he was in doubt was today. It will be close. The gov race was called for the GOP guy.

Its interesting how many split tickets there are..

People yell Trump caused this but 175 Trump endorsed canidates won. Its not about Trump, its about messaging.

The ones with no message on how to solve problems lost. Attacking opponents didnt win, problem solving messages won. Look at who won and why..

---

Funny how so many people reached conclusions while the votes were still being counted.

A lot of possible outcomes here, and no one really knows right now how it will play out.

---

Both parties have pretty much known since Tuesday. They know these precincts and outstanding votes. Just like Trump knew in 2020 that he didn't come close to meeting his numbers in PA or MI yet pretended outstanding votes would help him.

---

because it is good politics to do that, to keep your base fired up.

both parties do it......

Doc Holliday said:

---

Congratulations to the Senate democrats

for suddenly pulling ahead

& winning surprise victories

By the perfect margins

4 days after polls close

In the dead of night

Only in states with mail in voting

For the 2nd time in a row.

We’d never seen anything like it

In 244yrs.

— The Redheaded libertarian (@TRHLofficial) November 13, 2022

---

Matt Taibbi had an article this weekend noting the hilarious irony of a state (Nevada) that literally counts money for a living being literally unable to count votes. The part in bold is the perfect commentary on the situation:

"Here's Walter Kirn, broadcasting from Clark County Friday, on the seeming inability of Americans to count things, even in a state where reaching an accurate count every night is a matter of life or death:

Walter Kirn: This is a town in which umpteen-million quarters are dumped into slot machines every night and counted within hours. This is a town that counts for a living. If you've seen Casino, you know how it works. A few of those dollars may go into some people's pockets, or they used to, at least before MGM…

Matt Taibbi: But if you're off by a couple bucks, you end up in a hole a couple of miles north of the city, don't you?

Walter Kirn: Exactly. If they counted money the way they're counting ballots, those people would be in Lake Mead tied to a cinder block. So it's increasingly hard for me, as at a certain level I'm just the average person, and the average person should not need to have a Jesuitical, theologically precise insight into all the different types of ballots, and all the ways in which they're delivered, and all the stages at which they're tabulated. The outsider, the American citizen, has every right to feel that these processes are simple, objective and rapid, and that they can't have that confidence in that suggests to me that there is a lot to be a dissident about in this country.

The inability to get buy-in from voters, and especially from the losers of these elections, who must have the confidence that they lost fairly, is a systemic and spiritual failure. It can't be addressed simply by criminalizing complaints or calling people names. It has to be addressed at the root. And there seems to be little prospect that it will be. So who wins and who loses now has become, to me, a secondary consideration. The real consideration is how do they maintain faith in a system that really would not suffice in a grocery store at the end of the day, when they open the till."

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

We need to dump Trump, but if we go back to Romney and Paul Ryan types, I'm not supporting the party at all.

---

Agreed.

Spine is a must-have.

---

Spine is one thing. Brown Shirt intimidation is another.

You can't govern to spite 50% of the populati0n. You can't intimidate people from running for office with threats. This is not the 2016 Trump and the MAGA hat. For whatever reason, no matter who is right or wrong, MAGA has morphed into a vindictive, threatening group that has no tolerance for anyone that does not think like them. That is NOT a governing party. That is a danger.

---

Democrats do that. Literally. Calling half the public a threat to democracy. Using the full range of federal and state level agencies to investigate and prosecute the standard bearer of the opposing party for 6 full years (so far batting .0000)

You need to listen to less MSNBC.

---

And the result? Nation is In such good shape. Between Progressives and MAGAs nothing getting done. GOP just had a loser midterm, chance Dems are keeping both Sen and Houe. MAGA only, Trump can save the Nation **** has just about set us up for checkmate. Trump and his cronies energizes Dems. They want him front and center. Independents broke for Dems, not Trump.

By the way, quit with the insult ***** You spout ho mature you are and then go MSNBC insult ***** Grow up.

---

Just noting the convergence of your messaging here and the messaging on the TV. The themes are congruent. You're mad we lost and you're just going to blame not just Trump, but the entire MAGA movement. That is exactly what Liz Cheney wants you to do. She did make quite a public spectacle promising to defeat these "weak" GOP candidates rather than helping them across the finish line. Why on earth aren't you furious with her?

There's all kinds of cause/effect problems with your reasoning. Is the nation in bad shape because of the Biden agenda, or because Republicans won't compromise with it? Sure, it always sounds & feels good to be an adult and"get things done," but what things? Compromise for the sake of compromise? No matter how harmful the proposals from the other side are? Do they ever do that with us? I would propose that the nation is in difficulty because of bad Democrat policies across the board, and that a return to the policies of prior Republican Administrations is the answer. It is a fools errand to think we win elections by going along with the very policies that have delivered historically bad econometric data and a very dissatisified electorate.

And, again, what we see is that Dems are going to demonize the GOP in order to turn out the Dem base no matter who is on the ticket. We cannot hide. If we disagree with them, we will be called a threat to democracy. We have to go out and smack them back. We did not do that. We let the party who turned the FBI/DOJ loose on PTA moms....the party who initiated investigations of Elon Musk solely because he bought a messaging platform that has been loyal to the left.....the party of wokeness and cancel culture and cashless bail....etc..... We let those intolerant bigots call us a threat to democracy. That has got to stop. We've got to get on message and define Democrats and their agenda as intolerant, bigoted, normophobic, and down right destructive to a free and prosperous society. That is kinda the Desantis message, you know.

There is much to criticize about Trump.
But you're criticizing of MAGA is Liz Cheney-level bull*****
It will not deliver election victory.
It will only cause an enormous percentage of your voters to give you the middle finger next election and stay home.
Politics is addition, not division.

---

You are not getting it. The MAGA of Reagan has been hijacked by Greene, Gaetz, Lake, and Breibert. People are not seeing the MAGA you are describing. They are as unlikeable as the Squad and use the same tactics. These people are out threatening candidates. Trumps is not only threatening, he is actively working to derail some of the GOP's most successful winners. You keep brushing over these facts. These Brownshirt tactics are not endearing MAGA to the electorate. What's next? Rallies against DeSantis by MAGA Republicans?

Maybe the messaging is converging because the election data and the actions of these idiots is showing that Independents and Moderates are not falling in line with these candidates. Actually, they are running away from Trump in the States that matter. The swing States ARE NOT falling in line for Trump. If the GOP continues to follow the MAGA crowds lead, the GOP is pretty much done.

As for Cheney, she is on a personal vendetta and is no better than Trump. She is willing to burn the whole thing down to get Trump. That is not in the best interest of the Nation. Both Cheney and Trump need to go away...

Oldbear83 said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Congratulations to the Senate democrats

for suddenly pulling ahead

& winning surprise victories

By the perfect margins

4 days after polls close

In the dead of night

Only in states with mail in voting

For the 2nd time in a row.

We’d never seen anything like it

In 244yrs.

— The Redheaded libertarian (@TRHLofficial) November 13, 2022

---

That's right.

Attack hard-working poll workers instead of admitting that America rejected your ideas.

The basic truths of this election are:

1. Republicans rightly identified inflation as a major concern but failed to note that concern about abortion rights was nearly as high. They also failed to say what they would do about inflation. All they could do was blame Biden for it.

2. Though criticized for it, Democrats' closing arguments about protecting democracy and restoring abortion rights were powerful.

3. Trump continued to be a drag on the party, causing it to put forward awful candidates, when other candidates would have won easily. Now, Trump has cost Reps 2018. 2020, and 2022.

I advise trying a message that actually works instead of being like Trump and constantly crying you wuz robbed.

---

Which ideas has America overwhelmingly rejected ?

---

Extremism

A stolen election

Outlawing abortion

Immigration cruelty

Cutting taxes as your only economic policy

Impeaching Biden

Impeaching Garland

Just to name a few.

Republicans centered on inflation and crime. But other than blame Democrats for them, they offered no solutions to them. Just outrage about them.

---

Well, let me see:

Extremism - certainly not as bas as what we have seen and heard from The Squad or 'Build Back Biden'

A stolen election - there is reason to doubt, and frankly the Democrats have fed that doubt. They squealed about it in 2000, 2016

Outlawing abortion - that depends on the State, the Federal Government has done nothing of the kind

Immigration cruelty - you would need to see former President Obama about that. So its not cruel to facilitate human smuggling, but cruel to try to stop it. Just amazing recto-cranial inversion here.

Cutting taxes as your only economic policy - not true, but small wonder you are unaware of anything but your spending

Impeaching Biden - has not happened, and since it could do no better than create 'President Harris' it won't

Impeaching Garland - would make sense but up to now nothing of the sort has occurred. In what republic would it not make sense to impeach a DOJ who investigated PTA moms at the request of teacher unions?

I think I shall dismiss your post as presumptive and biased.

---

And I bet if we look real hard under the hood, CJ thinks he's a swing voter.

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Things change depending on who wins.

The 2020 presidential election was rife with allegations of voting machine hacks that were later debunked.

Yet there are real risks that hackers could tunnel into voting equipment and other election infrastructure to try to undermine Tuesday’s vote.https://t.co/kDij1J08eU

— POLITICO (@politico) November 7, 2022

---

Geez, stop.with the fraud ***** GOP lost, deal with it. Need better candidates and message that attracts younger voters and Hispanics to GOP. This fraud crap just alienates voters.

If there is proof investigate, prosecute, convict and talk about after you get conviction. Or, it'd more Jan 6th BS.

---

I posted this before the outcome because liberal media was saying fraud was possible when they've been saying it's impossible for the past two years.

RMF5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

We need to dump Trump, but if we go back to Romney and Paul Ryan types, I'm not supporting the party at all.

---

Agreed.

Spine is a must-have.

---

Spine is one thing. Brown Shirt intimidation is another.

You can't govern to spite 50% of the populati0n. You can't intimidate people from running for office with threats. This is not the 2016 Trump and the MAGA hat. For whatever reason, no matter who is right or wrong, MAGA has morphed into a vindictive, threatening group that has no tolerance for anyone that does not think like them. That is NOT a governing party. That is a danger.

---

Democrats do that. Literally. Calling half the public a threat to democracy. Using the full range of federal and state level agencies to investigate and prosecute the standard bearer of the opposing party for 6 full years (so far batting .0000)

You need to listen to less MSNBC.

---

And the result? Nation is In such good shape. Between Progressives and MAGAs nothing getting done. GOP just had a loser midterm, chance Dems are keeping both Sen and Houe. MAGA only, Trump can save the Nation **** has just about set us up for checkmate. Trump and his cronies energizes Dems. They want him front and center. Independents broke for Dems, not Trump.

By the way, quit with the insult ***** You spout ho mature you are and then go MSNBC insult ***** Grow up.

---

Just noting the convergence of your messaging here and the messaging on the TV. The themes are congruent. You're mad we lost and you're just going to blame not just Trump, but the entire MAGA movement. That is exactly what Liz Cheney wants you to do. She did make quite a public spectacle promising to defeat these "weak" GOP candidates rather than helping them across the finish line. Why on earth aren't you furious with her?

There's all kinds of cause/effect problems with your reasoning. Is the nation in bad shape because of the Biden agenda, or because Republicans won't compromise with it? Sure, it always sounds & feels good to be an adult and"get things done," but what things? Compromise for the sake of compromise? No matter how harmful the proposals from the other side are? Do they ever do that with us? I would propose that the nation is in difficulty because of bad Democrat policies across the board, and that a return to the policies of prior Republican Administrations is the answer. It is a fools errand to think we win elections by going along with the very policies that have delivered historically bad econometric data and a very dissatisified electorate.

And, again, what we see is that Dems are going to demonize the GOP in order to turn out the Dem base no matter who is on the ticket. We cannot hide. If we disagree with them, we will be called a threat to democracy. We have to go out and smack them back. We did not do that. We let the party who turned the FBI/DOJ loose on PTA moms....the party who initiated investigations of Elon Musk solely because he bought a messaging platform that has been loyal to the left.....the party of wokeness and cancel culture and cashless bail....etc..... We let those intolerant bigots call us a threat to democracy. That has got to stop. We've got to get on message and define Democrats and their agenda as intolerant, bigoted, normophobic, and down right destructive to a free and prosperous society. That is kinda the Desantis message, you know.

There is much to criticize about Trump.
But you're criticizing of MAGA is Liz Cheney-level bull*****
It will not deliver election victory.
It will only cause an enormous percentage of your voters to give you the middle finger next election and stay home.
Politics is addition, not division.

---

You are not getting it. The MAGA of Reagan has been hijacked by Greene, Gaetz, Lake, and Breibert. People are not seeing the MAGA you are describing. They are as unlikeable as the Squad and use the same tactics. These people are out threatening candidates. Trumps is not only threatening, he is actively working to derail some of the GOP's most successful winners. You keep brushing over these facts. These Brownshirt tactics are not endearing MAGA to the electorate. What's next? Rallies against DeSantis by MAGA Republicans?

Maybe the messaging is converging because the election data and the actions of these idiots is showing that Independents and Moderates are not falling in line with these candidates. Actually, they are running away from Trump in the States that matter. The swing States ARE NOT falling in line for Trump. If the GOP continues to follow the MAGA crowds lead, the GOP is pretty much done.

As for Cheney, she is on a personal vendetta and is no better than Trump. She is willing to burn the whole thing down to get Trump. That is not in the best interest of the Nation. Both Cheney and Trump need to go away...

---

MSNBC will tell you that MTG is a threat to democracy who has hijacked the GOP. I see in MTG a person who is quite a bit closer to the average American, closer to the political middle than anyone in the Squad. Her greatest offense is that she rabble rouses in a way that Republicans are not supposed to do. Pfft. I think it's humorous, particularly to see how uptight are her critics. Here's what you should tell people who think MTG is the problem - "Lighten up, Francis."

MTG is not the problem here.
Democrats are the problem here.

The problem isn't that the Republicans are talking too far right.
The problem is that Democrats have actually taken the country too far left.

Tell me one time that Democrats have ever been "the problem."
Tell me one time that Democrat centriests have ever turned on their crazies they way you're turning on people who aren't that crazy?

Tell me what it is that makes Ron DeSantis the annointed one, and Kari Lake radioactive? I see in Kari Lake a more telegenic Ron DeSantis, but in other respects pretty much two peas in a pod. Yeah, RDS has already been elected and had a successful term and re-election. But his first one was a squeaker. He was, you know, a founding member of the Freedom Caucus, a right-wing nut, at the time he got elected. And then he showed what governance looks like under right-wing nuts (pretty damned good). If she squeaks by, and has a successful first year in office, she will be one of the brightest lights in the party.

Remember Reagan's 11th Commandment.
We win by demonizing Democrats, not Republicans.

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Things change depending on who wins.

The 2020 presidential election was rife with allegations of voting machine hacks that were later debunked.

Yet there are real risks that hackers could tunnel into voting equipment and other election infrastructure to try to undermine Tuesday’s vote.https://t.co/kDij1J08eU

— POLITICO (@politico) November 7, 2022

---

Geez, stop.with the fraud ***** GOP lost, deal with it. Need better candidates and message that attracts younger voters and Hispanics to GOP. This fraud crap just alienates voters.

If there is proof investigate, prosecute, convict and talk about after you get conviction. Or, it'd more Jan 6th BS.

---

I posted this before the outcome because liberal media was saying fraud was possible when they've been saying it's impossible for the past two years.

---

Yeah, but it is time to look in the mirror. The fact that this election was close enough for fraud to play a role with Biden in the White House should be a red flag. We are living in the 70's and instead of a wave bringing Reagan in to right the ship, the electorate voted to maintain the status quo with these clowns at the wheel rather than give Trump and his crowd another shot. What does that tell you???

Some on here, they are doubling down into the MAGA/Brietbert line that it is fraud, media-bias and that the American people really do want Trump and his band to save the day. But, if that is the case, why are they attacking winning GOP members? They are actively trying to intimidate, bad-mouth and humiliate GOP winners that are on their side??? That is the actions of someone that is going to save the Party?

Trump and his band are the problem, just as much as Pelosi and the Squad. They are the same on extreme ends of the political spectrum, but at that point a tyrant is a tyrant. Lenin and Hitler didn't operate too far apart, even though they believed 100% different politics.

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Things change depending on who wins.

The 2020 presidential election was rife with allegations of voting machine hacks that were later debunked.

Yet there are real risks that hackers could tunnel into voting equipment and other election infrastructure to try to undermine Tuesday’s vote.https://t.co/kDij1J08eU

— POLITICO (@politico) November 7, 2022

---

Geez, stop.with the fraud ***** GOP lost, deal with it. Need better candidates and message that attracts younger voters and Hispanics to GOP. This fraud crap just alienates voters.

If there is proof investigate, prosecute, convict and talk about after you get conviction. Or, it'd more Jan 6th BS.

---

I posted this before the outcome because liberal media was saying fraud was possible when they've been saying it's impossible for the past two years.

---

Yeah, but it is time to look in the mirror. The fact that this election was close enough for fraud to play a role with Biden in the White House should be a red flag. We are living in the 70's and instead of a wave bringing Reagan in to right the ship, the electorate voted to maintain the status quo with these clowns at the wheel rather than give Trump and his crowd another shot. What does that tell you???

Some on here, they are doubling down into the MAGA/Brietbert line that it is fraud, media-bias and that the American people really do want Trump and his band to save the day. But, if that is the case, why are they attacking winning GOP members? They are actively trying to intimidate, bad-mouth and humiliate GOP winners that are on their side??? That is the actions of someone that is going to save the Party?

Trump and his band are the problem, just as much as Pelosi and the Squad. They are the same on extreme ends of the political spectrum, but at that point a tyrant is a tyrant. Lenin and Hitler didn't operate too far apart, even though they believed 100% different politics.

---

Violation of Reagan's 11th Commandment leads to results like this. Note the number of stars.

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Things change depending on who wins.

The 2020 presidential election was rife with allegations of voting machine hacks that were later debunked.

Yet there are real risks that hackers could tunnel into voting equipment and other election infrastructure to try to undermine Tuesday’s vote.https://t.co/kDij1J08eU

— POLITICO (@politico) November 7, 2022

---

Geez, stop.with the fraud ***** GOP lost, deal with it. Need better candidates and message that attracts younger voters and Hispanics to GOP. This fraud crap just alienates voters.

If there is proof investigate, prosecute, convict and talk about after you get conviction. Or, it'd more Jan 6th BS.

---

I posted this before the outcome because liberal media was saying fraud was possible when they've been saying it's impossible for the past two years.

---

Yeah, but it is time to look in the mirror. The fact that this election was close enough for fraud to play a role with Biden in the White House should be a red flag. We are living in the 70's and instead of a wave bringing Reagan in to right the ship, the electorate voted to maintain the status quo with these clowns at the wheel rather than give Trump and his crowd another shot. What does that tell you???

Some on here, they are doubling down into the MAGA/Brietbert line that it is fraud, media-bias and that the American people really do want Trump and his band to save the day. But, if that is the case, why are they attacking winning GOP members? They are actively trying to intimidate, bad-mouth and humiliate GOP winners that are on their side??? That is the actions of someone that is going to save the Party?

Trump and his band are the problem, just as much as Pelosi and the Squad. They are the same on extreme ends of the political spectrum, but at that point a tyrant is a tyrant. Lenin and Hitler didn't operate too far apart, even though they believed 100% different politics.

---

Violation of Reagan's 11th Commandment leads to results like this. Note the number of stars.

---

Yet, it is alright for Trump to pull his crap? He can attack whoever he wants and the GOP is supposed to be good with it. Yet, question whether Trump is good for the Party and we are breaking the 11th Commandment. That is MAGA logic...

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Things change depending on who wins.

The 2020 presidential election was rife with allegations of voting machine hacks that were later debunked.

Yet there are real risks that hackers could tunnel into voting equipment and other election infrastructure to try to undermine Tuesday’s vote.https://t.co/kDij1J08eU

— POLITICO (@politico) November 7, 2022

---

Geez, stop.with the fraud ***** GOP lost, deal with it. Need better candidates and message that attracts younger voters and Hispanics to GOP. This fraud crap just alienates voters.

If there is proof investigate, prosecute, convict and talk about after you get conviction. Or, it'd more Jan 6th BS.

---

I posted this before the outcome because liberal media was saying fraud was possible when they've been saying it's impossible for the past two years.

---

Yeah, but it is time to look in the mirror. The fact that this election was close enough for fraud to play a role with Biden in the White House should be a red flag. We are living in the 70's and instead of a wave bringing Reagan in to right the ship, the electorate voted to maintain the status quo with these clowns at the wheel rather than give Trump and his crowd another shot. What does that tell you???

Some on here, they are doubling down into the MAGA/Brietbert line that it is fraud, media-bias and that the American people really do want Trump and his band to save the day. But, if that is the case, why are they attacking winning GOP members? They are actively trying to intimidate, bad-mouth and humiliate GOP winners that are on their side??? That is the actions of someone that is going to save the Party?

Trump and his band are the problem, just as much as Pelosi and the Squad. They are the same on extreme ends of the political spectrum, but at that point a tyrant is a tyrant. Lenin and Hitler didn't operate too far apart, even though they believed 100% different politics.

---

…do you know that I predicted GOP would do terrible in midterms and that I'm ready to get past Trump?

I'm never voting for neocons and warhawks. No way in hell we're going back to McConnells, Paul Ryan's and Romneys.

Canada2017 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Things change depending on who wins.

The 2020 presidential election was rife with allegations of voting machine hacks that were later debunked.

Yet there are real risks that hackers could tunnel into voting equipment and other election infrastructure to try to undermine Tuesday’s vote.https://t.co/kDij1J08eU

— POLITICO (@politico) November 7, 2022

---

Geez, stop.with the fraud ***** GOP lost, deal with it. Need better candidates and message that attracts younger voters and Hispanics to GOP. This fraud crap just alienates voters.

If there is proof investigate, prosecute, convict and talk about after you get conviction. Or, it'd more Jan 6th BS.

---

I posted this before the outcome because liberal media was saying fraud was possible when they've been saying it's impossible for the past two years.

---

Yeah, but it is time to look in the mirror. The fact that this election was close enough for fraud to play a role with Biden in the White House should be a red flag. We are living in the 70's and instead of a wave bringing Reagan in to right the ship, the electorate voted to maintain the status quo with these clowns at the wheel rather than give Trump and his crowd another shot. What does that tell you???

Some on here, they are doubling down into the MAGA/Brietbert line that it is fraud, media-bias and that the American people really do want Trump and his band to save the day. But, if that is the case, why are they attacking winning GOP members? They are actively trying to intimidate, bad-mouth and humiliate GOP winners that are on their side??? That is the actions of someone that is going to save the Party?

Trump and his band are the problem, just as much as Pelosi and the Squad. They are the same on extreme ends of the political spectrum, but at that point a tyrant is a tyrant. Lenin and Hitler didn't operate too far apart, even though they believed 100% different politics.

---

…do you know that I predicted GOP would do terrible in midterms and that I'm ready to get past Trump?

---

Trump is the Dem's best asset .

Amazing how many conservatives can't accept this even now.

---

This is a good take on what happened:

whiterock said:

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sombear said:

---

Passing along some fascinating vote info from GOP. Much of this is public by now:

* Record % of voters made up their mind the last few days.
* Record ticket-splitting - e.g., vote for GOP Gov but Dem Senate, hurting GOP in GA, NV, AZ, OH, NH
* Independents broke hard and late for Dems - almost never happens in midterm with unpopular Pres. Even pronounced in key races.
* GOP met turnout metrics.
* GOP will win popular vote by 4% with little or nothing to show for it.
* Unusually high % of voters voted against their top issue - e.g., Fetterman won majority of voters who cited crime as their top issue; Warnock leading among those saying inflation top issue.
* Suburbs hurt the GOP overall, but strong for GOP in FL, NY, TX, and a few other states.
* As I posted before the election, GOP Senate candidate quality was around -2.5%, meaning based on metrics, the entire slate of GOP candidates was 2.5% behind an average slate. I did not get breakdowns, but that likely means some of our worst GOP Senate candidates were easily -5% to -7%, which is historically bad.
* GOP House candidates were an average +2 quality. Strong slate.
* In House, outside of FL, NY, and CA (likely), GOP did good enough to make tough races close but still lose. In other words, GOP made races close where they were substantial underdogs, but could not get over the edge in races where they were close underdogs. If there were any sort of wave (which is typical with an unpopular Pres) GOP would have got the extra ~1% it needed in tens of races.
* GOP continued to improve with Hispanics, African Americans, and Asians.
* Weak Gov/Senate candidates hurt GOP House races in PA, MI, MD, NH. Zeldin, even though he lost, was huge for GOP House in NY.
* Trump disapproval among all voters was ~60%. Biden disapproval was ~55%. Trump also worse on "strong disapproval."
* Record high approval for Pelosi - due to sympathy over attack on husband. One GOP insider believes this incident had more impact than any other single recent issue, which I find hard to believe.
* About the same % of voters made their decision based on Biden (for or against) and Trump (for or against). This is unprecedented. Midterm has always been a verdict on a sitting Pres, with leading opposition figure barely on radar.

---

Worth noting that Romney met his turnout metrics, too. They were just the wrong metrics.

---

The base turned out for the Trump's losing senate candidates. They lost Independents and lost their races

Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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RMF5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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RMF5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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We need to dump Trump, but if we go back to Romney and Paul Ryan types, I'm not supporting the party at all.

---

Agreed.

Spine is a must-have.

---

Spine is one thing. Brown Shirt intimidation is another.

You can't govern to spite 50% of the populati0n. You can't intimidate people from running for office with threats. This is not the 2016 Trump and the MAGA hat. For whatever reason, no matter who is right or wrong, MAGA has morphed into a vindictive, threatening group that has no tolerance for anyone that does not think like them. That is NOT a governing party. That is a danger.

---

Democrats do that. Literally. Calling half the public a threat to democracy. Using the full range of federal and state level agencies to investigate and prosecute the standard bearer of the opposing party for 6 full years (so far batting .0000)

You need to listen to less MSNBC.

---

And the result? Nation is In such good shape. Between Progressives and MAGAs nothing getting done. GOP just had a loser midterm, chance Dems are keeping both Sen and Houe. MAGA only, Trump can save the Nation **** has just about set us up for checkmate. Trump and his cronies energizes Dems. They want him front and center. Independents broke for Dems, not Trump.

By the way, quit with the insult ***** You spout ho mature you are and then go MSNBC insult ***** Grow up.

---

Just noting the convergence of your messaging here and the messaging on the TV. The themes are congruent. You're mad we lost and you're just going to blame not just Trump, but the entire MAGA movement. That is exactly what Liz Cheney wants you to do. She did make quite a public spectacle promising to defeat these "weak" GOP candidates rather than helping them across the finish line. Why on earth aren't you furious with her?

There's all kinds of cause/effect problems with your reasoning. Is the nation in bad shape because of the Biden agenda, or because Republicans won't compromise with it? Sure, it always sounds & feels good to be an adult and"get things done," but what things? Compromise for the sake of compromise? No matter how harmful the proposals from the other side are? Do they ever do that with us? I would propose that the nation is in difficulty because of bad Democrat policies across the board, and that a return to the policies of prior Republican Administrations is the answer. It is a fools errand to think we win elections by going along with the very policies that have delivered historically bad econometric data and a very dissatisified electorate.

And, again, what we see is that Dems are going to demonize the GOP in order to turn out the Dem base no matter who is on the ticket. We cannot hide. If we disagree with them, we will be called a threat to democracy. We have to go out and smack them back. We did not do that. We let the party who turned the FBI/DOJ loose on PTA moms....the party who initiated investigations of Elon Musk solely because he bought a messaging platform that has been loyal to the left.....the party of wokeness and cancel culture and cashless bail....etc..... We let those intolerant bigots call us a threat to democracy. That has got to stop. We've got to get on message and define Democrats and their agenda as intolerant, bigoted, normophobic, and down right destructive to a free and prosperous society. That is kinda the Desantis message, you know.

There is much to criticize about Trump.
But you're criticizing of MAGA is Liz Cheney-level bull*****
It will not deliver election victory.
It will only cause an enormous percentage of your voters to give you the middle finger next election and stay home.
Politics is addition, not division.

---

You are not getting it. The MAGA of Reagan has been hijacked by Greene, Gaetz, Lake, and Breibert. People are not seeing the MAGA you are describing. They are as unlikeable as the Squad and use the same tactics. These people are out threatening candidates. Trumps is not only threatening, he is actively working to derail some of the GOP's most successful winners. You keep brushing over these facts. These Brownshirt tactics are not endearing MAGA to the electorate. What's next? Rallies against DeSantis by MAGA Republicans?

Maybe the messaging is converging because the election data and the actions of these idiots is showing that Independents and Moderates are not falling in line with these candidates. Actually, they are running away from Trump in the States that matter. The swing States ARE NOT falling in line for Trump. If the GOP continues to follow the MAGA crowds lead, the GOP is pretty much done.

As for Cheney, she is on a personal vendetta and is no better than Trump. She is willing to burn the whole thing down to get Trump. That is not in the best interest of the Nation. Both Cheney and Trump need to go away...

---

MSNBC will tell you that MTG is a threat to democracy who has hijacked the GOP. I see in MTG a person who is quite a bit closer to the average American, closer to the political middle than anyone in the Squad. Her greatest offense is that she rabble rouses in a way that Republicans are not supposed to do. Pfft. I think it's humorous, particularly to see how uptight are her critics. Here's what you should tell people who think MTG is the problem - "Lighten up, Francis."

MTG is not the problem here.
Democrats are the problem here.

The problem isn't that the Republicans are talking too far right.
The problem is that Democrats have actually taken the country too far left.

Tell me one time that Democrats have ever been "the problem."
Tell me one time that Democrat centriests have ever turned on their crazies they way you're turning on people who aren't that crazy?

Tell me what it is that makes Ron DeSantis the annointed one, and Kari Lake radioactive? I see in Kari Lake a more telegenic Ron DeSantis, but in other respects pretty much two peas in a pod. Yeah, RDS has already been elected and had a successful term and re-election. But his first one was a squeaker. He was, you know, a founding member of the Freedom Caucus, a right-wing nut, at the time he got elected. And then he showed what governance looks like under right-wing nuts (pretty damned good). If she squeaks by, and has a successful first year in office, she will be one of the brightest lights in the party.

Remember Reagan's 11th Commandment.
We win by demonizing Democrats, not Republicans.

---

Chris Christie said, "We lost in '18. We lost in '20. We lost in '21 in Georgia. And now in '22 we're going to net lose governorships. . . . There's only one person to blame for that, and that's Donald Trump."

---

What a convenient argument for the GOP power structure to make. Now, give the RNC your money because Trump's MAGA PAC, which is a competitor to other GOP funding sources, cannot deliver. What a message--circular firing squad.

The GOP has been failing to win winnable elections for most of my adult life. They should stop attacking their latest pinata, Donald John Trump, and be more introspective. Why do they lose winnable elections?

Donald John Trump should take some ques from some of the Establishment and learn when to talk and when to hold his fire---and to not direct his fire at other Republicans.

Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

We need to dump Trump, but if we go back to Romney and Paul Ryan types, I'm not supporting the party at all.

---

Agreed.

Spine is a must-have.

---

Spine is one thing. Brown Shirt intimidation is another.

You can't govern to spite 50% of the populati0n. You can't intimidate people from running for office with threats. This is not the 2016 Trump and the MAGA hat. For whatever reason, no matter who is right or wrong, MAGA has morphed into a vindictive, threatening group that has no tolerance for anyone that does not think like them. That is NOT a governing party. That is a danger.

---

Democrats do that. Literally. Calling half the public a threat to democracy. Using the full range of federal and state level agencies to investigate and prosecute the standard bearer of the opposing party for 6 full years (so far batting .0000)

You need to listen to less MSNBC.

---

And the result? Nation is In such good shape. Between Progressives and MAGAs nothing getting done. GOP just had a loser midterm, chance Dems are keeping both Sen and Houe. MAGA only, Trump can save the Nation **** has just about set us up for checkmate. Trump and his cronies energizes Dems. They want him front and center. Independents broke for Dems, not Trump.

By the way, quit with the insult ***** You spout ho mature you are and then go MSNBC insult ***** Grow up.

---

Just noting the convergence of your messaging here and the messaging on the TV. The themes are congruent. You're mad we lost and you're just going to blame not just Trump, but the entire MAGA movement. That is exactly what Liz Cheney wants you to do. She did make quite a public spectacle promising to defeat these "weak" GOP candidates rather than helping them across the finish line. Why on earth aren't you furious with her?

There's all kinds of cause/effect problems with your reasoning. Is the nation in bad shape because of the Biden agenda, or because Republicans won't compromise with it? Sure, it always sounds & feels good to be an adult and"get things done," but what things? Compromise for the sake of compromise? No matter how harmful the proposals from the other side are? Do they ever do that with us? I would propose that the nation is in difficulty because of bad Democrat policies across the board, and that a return to the policies of prior Republican Administrations is the answer. It is a fools errand to think we win elections by going along with the very policies that have delivered historically bad econometric data and a very dissatisified electorate.

And, again, what we see is that Dems are going to demonize the GOP in order to turn out the Dem base no matter who is on the ticket. We cannot hide. If we disagree with them, we will be called a threat to democracy. We have to go out and smack them back. We did not do that. We let the party who turned the FBI/DOJ loose on PTA moms....the party who initiated investigations of Elon Musk solely because he bought a messaging platform that has been loyal to the left.....the party of wokeness and cancel culture and cashless bail....etc..... We let those intolerant bigots call us a threat to democracy. That has got to stop. We've got to get on message and define Democrats and their agenda as intolerant, bigoted, normophobic, and down right destructive to a free and prosperous society. That is kinda the Desantis message, you know.

There is much to criticize about Trump.
But you're criticizing of MAGA is Liz Cheney-level bull*****
It will not deliver election victory.
It will only cause an enormous percentage of your voters to give you the middle finger next election and stay home.
Politics is addition, not division.

---

You are not getting it. The MAGA of Reagan has been hijacked by Greene, Gaetz, Lake, and Breibert. People are not seeing the MAGA you are describing. They are as unlikeable as the Squad and use the same tactics. These people are out threatening candidates. Trumps is not only threatening, he is actively working to derail some of the GOP's most successful winners. You keep brushing over these facts. These Brownshirt tactics are not endearing MAGA to the electorate. What's next? Rallies against DeSantis by MAGA Republicans?

Maybe the messaging is converging because the election data and the actions of these idiots is showing that Independents and Moderates are not falling in line with these candidates. Actually, they are running away from Trump in the States that matter. The swing States ARE NOT falling in line for Trump. If the GOP continues to follow the MAGA crowds lead, the GOP is pretty much done.

As for Cheney, she is on a personal vendetta and is no better than Trump. She is willing to burn the whole thing down to get Trump. That is not in the best interest of the Nation. Both Cheney and Trump need to go away...

---

MSNBC will tell you that MTG is a threat to democracy who has hijacked the GOP. I see in MTG a person who is quite a bit closer to the average American, closer to the political middle than anyone in the Squad. Her greatest offense is that she rabble rouses in a way that Republicans are not supposed to do. Pfft. I think it's humorous, particularly to see how uptight are her critics. Here's what you should tell people who think MTG is the problem - "Lighten up, Francis."

MTG is not the problem here.
Democrats are the problem here.

The problem isn't that the Republicans are talking too far right.
The problem is that Democrats have actually taken the country too far left.

Tell me one time that Democrats have ever been "the problem."
Tell me one time that Democrat centriests have ever turned on their crazies they way you're turning on people who aren't that crazy?

Tell me what it is that makes Ron DeSantis the annointed one, and Kari Lake radioactive? I see in Kari Lake a more telegenic Ron DeSantis, but in other respects pretty much two peas in a pod. Yeah, RDS has already been elected and had a successful term and re-election. But his first one was a squeaker. He was, you know, a founding member of the Freedom Caucus, a right-wing nut, at the time he got elected. And then he showed what governance looks like under right-wing nuts (pretty damned good). If she squeaks by, and has a successful first year in office, she will be one of the brightest lights in the party.

Remember Reagan's 11th Commandment.
We win by demonizing Democrats, not Republicans.

---

Republicans have a problem with Independents, not the base. DeSantis carried the base + Independents. Lake (probably) lost Independents.

Nationwide, Republicans outvoted Democrats 36-33 or 49-43 depending on which poll you choose. The Republican problem is they lost Independents 49-47 or by 4%, depending on which poll.
In Arizona, 55%of Independents voted for Kelly compared to 39% for Masters.
In Pennsylvania, 58% voted for Fetterman compared to 38% for Oz.
In Georgia, Warnock won Independents 53-42.
In NH, 54% of them voted for the Democrat.

In Florida, DeSantis won 53% of Independents.

Chris Christie said, "We lost in '18. We lost in '20. We lost in '21 in Georgia. And now in '22 we're going to net lose governorships. . . . There's only one person to blame for that, and that's Donald Trump."

---

You are right. I suspect the number of independents is rising, as both parties go further to the extremes. I know several on here say no, but I suspect many of the Reagan Republicans are now Independents and they are not going to align with MAGA (what it stands for today). I suspect, in 2016 many thought it was Reagan's MAGA. Now they know that it is not, it is a much darker view of the political world. It is not a "shining city on the Hill"...

pic.twitter.com/KnLNUs7dEa

— Hans Mahncke (@HansMahncke) November 14, 2022

He Hate Me said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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RMF5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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RMF5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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We need to dump Trump, but if we go back to Romney and Paul Ryan types, I'm not supporting the party at all.

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Agreed.

Spine is a must-have.

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Spine is one thing. Brown Shirt intimidation is another.

You can't govern to spite 50% of the populati0n. You can't intimidate people from running for office with threats. This is not the 2016 Trump and the MAGA hat. For whatever reason, no matter who is right or wrong, MAGA has morphed into a vindictive, threatening group that has no tolerance for anyone that does not think like them. That is NOT a governing party. That is a danger.

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Democrats do that. Literally. Calling half the public a threat to democracy. Using the full range of federal and state level agencies to investigate and prosecute the standard bearer of the opposing party for 6 full years (so far batting .0000)

You need to listen to less MSNBC.

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And the result? Nation is In such good shape. Between Progressives and MAGAs nothing getting done. GOP just had a loser midterm, chance Dems are keeping both Sen and Houe. MAGA only, Trump can save the Nation **** has just about set us up for checkmate. Trump and his cronies energizes Dems. They want him front and center. Independents broke for Dems, not Trump.

By the way, quit with the insult ***** You spout ho mature you are and then go MSNBC insult ***** Grow up.

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Just noting the convergence of your messaging here and the messaging on the TV. The themes are congruent. You're mad we lost and you're just going to blame not just Trump, but the entire MAGA movement. That is exactly what Liz Cheney wants you to do. She did make quite a public spectacle promising to defeat these "weak" GOP candidates rather than helping them across the finish line. Why on earth aren't you furious with her?

There's all kinds of cause/effect problems with your reasoning. Is the nation in bad shape because of the Biden agenda, or because Republicans won't compromise with it? Sure, it always sounds & feels good to be an adult and"get things done," but what things? Compromise for the sake of compromise? No matter how harmful the proposals from the other side are? Do they ever do that with us? I would propose that the nation is in difficulty because of bad Democrat policies across the board, and that a return to the policies of prior Republican Administrations is the answer. It is a fools errand to think we win elections by going along with the very policies that have delivered historically bad econometric data and a very dissatisified electorate.

And, again, what we see is that Dems are going to demonize the GOP in order to turn out the Dem base no matter who is on the ticket. We cannot hide. If we disagree with them, we will be called a threat to democracy. We have to go out and smack them back. We did not do that. We let the party who turned the FBI/DOJ loose on PTA moms....the party who initiated investigations of Elon Musk solely because he bought a messaging platform that has been loyal to the left.....the party of wokeness and cancel culture and cashless bail....etc..... We let those intolerant bigots call us a threat to democracy. That has got to stop. We've got to get on message and define Democrats and their agenda as intolerant, bigoted, normophobic, and down right destructive to a free and prosperous society. That is kinda the Desantis message, you know.

There is much to criticize about Trump.
But you're criticizing of MAGA is Liz Cheney-level bull*****
It will not deliver election victory.
It will only cause an enormous percentage of your voters to give you the middle finger next election and stay home.
Politics is addition, not division.

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You are not getting it. The MAGA of Reagan has been hijacked by Greene, Gaetz, Lake, and Breibert. People are not seeing the MAGA you are describing. They are as unlikeable as the Squad and use the same tactics. These people are out threatening candidates. Trumps is not only threatening, he is actively working to derail some of the GOP's most successful winners. You keep brushing over these facts. These Brownshirt tactics are not endearing MAGA to the electorate. What's next? Rallies against DeSantis by MAGA Republicans?

Maybe the messaging is converging because the election data and the actions of these idiots is showing that Independents and Moderates are not falling in line with these candidates. Actually, they are running away from Trump in the States that matter. The swing States ARE NOT falling in line for Trump. If the GOP continues to follow the MAGA crowds lead, the GOP is pretty much done.

As for Cheney, she is on a personal vendetta and is no better than Trump. She is willing to burn the whole thing down to get Trump. That is not in the best interest of the Nation. Both Cheney and Trump need to go away...

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MSNBC will tell you that MTG is a threat to democracy who has hijacked the GOP. I see in MTG a person who is quite a bit closer to the average American, closer to the political middle than anyone in the Squad. Her greatest offense is that she rabble rouses in a way that Republicans are not supposed to do. Pfft. I think it's humorous, particularly to see how uptight are her critics. Here's what you should tell people who think MTG is the problem - "Lighten up, Francis."

MTG is not the problem here.
Democrats are the problem here.

The problem isn't that the Republicans are talking too far right.
The problem is that Democrats have actually taken the country too far left.

Tell me one time that Democrats have ever been "the problem."
Tell me one time that Democrat centriests have ever turned on their crazies they way you're turning on people who aren't that crazy?

Tell me what it is that makes Ron DeSantis the annointed one, and Kari Lake radioactive? I see in Kari Lake a more telegenic Ron DeSantis, but in other respects pretty much two peas in a pod. Yeah, RDS has already been elected and had a successful term and re-election. But his first one was a squeaker. He was, you know, a founding member of the Freedom Caucus, a right-wing nut, at the time he got elected. And then he showed what governance looks like under right-wing nuts (pretty damned good). If she squeaks by, and has a successful first year in office, she will be one of the brightest lights in the party.

Remember Reagan's 11th Commandment.
We win by demonizing Democrats, not Republicans.

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Chris Christie said, "We lost in '18. We lost in '20. We lost in '21 in Georgia. And now in '22 we're going to net lose governorships. . . . There's only one person to blame for that, and that's Donald Trump."

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What a convenient argument for the GOP power structure to make. Now, give the RNC your money because Trump's MAGA PAC, which is a competitor to other GOP funding sources, cannot deliver. What a message--circular firing squad.

The GOP has been failing to win winnable elections for most of my adult life. They should stop attacking their latest pinata, Donald John Trump, and be more introspective. Why do they lose winnable elections?

Donald John Trump should take some ques from some of the Establishment and learn when to talk and when to hold his fire---and to not direct his fire at other Republicans.

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Nope, he just needs to take his sorry human self and GTFU!

RMF5630 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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RMF5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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RMF5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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We need to dump Trump, but if we go back to Romney and Paul Ryan types, I'm not supporting the party at all.

---

Agreed.

Spine is a must-have.

---

Spine is one thing. Brown Shirt intimidation is another.

You can't govern to spite 50% of the populati0n. You can't intimidate people from running for office with threats. This is not the 2016 Trump and the MAGA hat. For whatever reason, no matter who is right or wrong, MAGA has morphed into a vindictive, threatening group that has no tolerance for anyone that does not think like them. That is NOT a governing party. That is a danger.

---

Democrats do that. Literally. Calling half the public a threat to democracy. Using the full range of federal and state level agencies to investigate and prosecute the standard bearer of the opposing party for 6 full years (so far batting .0000)

You need to listen to less MSNBC.

---

And the result? Nation is In such good shape. Between Progressives and MAGAs nothing getting done. GOP just had a loser midterm, chance Dems are keeping both Sen and Houe. MAGA only, Trump can save the Nation **** has just about set us up for checkmate. Trump and his cronies energizes Dems. They want him front and center. Independents broke for Dems, not Trump.

By the way, quit with the insult ***** You spout ho mature you are and then go MSNBC insult ***** Grow up.

---

Just noting the convergence of your messaging here and the messaging on the TV. The themes are congruent. You're mad we lost and you're just going to blame not just Trump, but the entire MAGA movement. That is exactly what Liz Cheney wants you to do. She did make quite a public spectacle promising to defeat these "weak" GOP candidates rather than helping them across the finish line. Why on earth aren't you furious with her?

There's all kinds of cause/effect problems with your reasoning. Is the nation in bad shape because of the Biden agenda, or because Republicans won't compromise with it? Sure, it always sounds & feels good to be an adult and"get things done," but what things? Compromise for the sake of compromise? No matter how harmful the proposals from the other side are? Do they ever do that with us? I would propose that the nation is in difficulty because of bad Democrat policies across the board, and that a return to the policies of prior Republican Administrations is the answer. It is a fools errand to think we win elections by going along with the very policies that have delivered historically bad econometric data and a very dissatisified electorate.

And, again, what we see is that Dems are going to demonize the GOP in order to turn out the Dem base no matter who is on the ticket. We cannot hide. If we disagree with them, we will be called a threat to democracy. We have to go out and smack them back. We did not do that. We let the party who turned the FBI/DOJ loose on PTA moms....the party who initiated investigations of Elon Musk solely because he bought a messaging platform that has been loyal to the left.....the party of wokeness and cancel culture and cashless bail....etc..... We let those intolerant bigots call us a threat to democracy. That has got to stop. We've got to get on message and define Democrats and their agenda as intolerant, bigoted, normophobic, and down right destructive to a free and prosperous society. That is kinda the Desantis message, you know.

There is much to criticize about Trump.
But you're criticizing of MAGA is Liz Cheney-level bull*****
It will not deliver election victory.
It will only cause an enormous percentage of your voters to give you the middle finger next election and stay home.
Politics is addition, not division.

---

You are not getting it. The MAGA of Reagan has been hijacked by Greene, Gaetz, Lake, and Breibert. People are not seeing the MAGA you are describing. They are as unlikeable as the Squad and use the same tactics. These people are out threatening candidates. Trumps is not only threatening, he is actively working to derail some of the GOP's most successful winners. You keep brushing over these facts. These Brownshirt tactics are not endearing MAGA to the electorate. What's next? Rallies against DeSantis by MAGA Republicans?

Maybe the messaging is converging because the election data and the actions of these idiots is showing that Independents and Moderates are not falling in line with these candidates. Actually, they are running away from Trump in the States that matter. The swing States ARE NOT falling in line for Trump. If the GOP continues to follow the MAGA crowds lead, the GOP is pretty much done.

As for Cheney, she is on a personal vendetta and is no better than Trump. She is willing to burn the whole thing down to get Trump. That is not in the best interest of the Nation. Both Cheney and Trump need to go away...

---

MSNBC will tell you that MTG is a threat to democracy who has hijacked the GOP. I see in MTG a person who is quite a bit closer to the average American, closer to the political middle than anyone in the Squad. Her greatest offense is that she rabble rouses in a way that Republicans are not supposed to do. Pfft. I think it's humorous, particularly to see how uptight are her critics. Here's what you should tell people who think MTG is the problem - "Lighten up, Francis."

MTG is not the problem here.
Democrats are the problem here.

The problem isn't that the Republicans are talking too far right.
The problem is that Democrats have actually taken the country too far left.

Tell me one time that Democrats have ever been "the problem."
Tell me one time that Democrat centriests have ever turned on their crazies they way you're turning on people who aren't that crazy?

Tell me what it is that makes Ron DeSantis the annointed one, and Kari Lake radioactive? I see in Kari Lake a more telegenic Ron DeSantis, but in other respects pretty much two peas in a pod. Yeah, RDS has already been elected and had a successful term and re-election. But his first one was a squeaker. He was, you know, a founding member of the Freedom Caucus, a right-wing nut, at the time he got elected. And then he showed what governance looks like under right-wing nuts (pretty damned good). If she squeaks by, and has a successful first year in office, she will be one of the brightest lights in the party.

Remember Reagan's 11th Commandment.
We win by demonizing Democrats, not Republicans.

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Republicans have a problem with Independents, not the base. DeSantis carried the base + Independents. Lake (probably) lost Independents.

Nationwide, Republicans outvoted Democrats 36-33 or 49-43 depending on which poll you choose. The Republican problem is they lost Independents 49-47 or by 4%, depending on which poll.
In Arizona, 55%of Independents voted for Kelly compared to 39% for Masters.
In Pennsylvania, 58% voted for Fetterman compared to 38% for Oz.
In Georgia, Warnock won Independents 53-42.
In NH, 54% of them voted for the Democrat.

In Florida, DeSantis won 53% of Independents.

Chris Christie said, "We lost in '18. We lost in '20. We lost in '21 in Georgia. And now in '22 we're going to net lose governorships. . . . There's only one person to blame for that, and that's Donald Trump."

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You are right. I suspect the number of independents is rising, as both parties go further to the extremes. I know several on here say no, but I suspect many of the Reagan Republicans are now Independents and they are not going to align with MAGA (what it stands for today). I suspect, in 2016 many thought it was Reagan's MAGA. Now they know that it is not, it is a much darker view of the political world. It is not a "shining city on the Hill"...

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I would categorize myself as a Reagan Republican, turned Independent years ago! I really get a kick out of the RWNJs/Maga folk around here call me a leftist and a Democrat! (I'm looking at you Old Bear and Redbrick) I didn't leave the party, the party left me with extremism .