Dear @CNNPolitics... Republicans won the House hours ago. Go ahead and take a peak at @DecisionDeskHQ's paper to get some help on this test. https://t.co/dgxX9aawbT

— ElectionRecon (@ElectionRecon) November 16, 2022

Highly amusing!

Sam Lowry said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Things change depending on who wins.

The 2020 presidential election was rife with allegations of voting machine hacks that were later debunked.

Yet there are real risks that hackers could tunnel into voting equipment and other election infrastructure to try to undermine Tuesday’s vote.https://t.co/kDij1J08eU

— POLITICO (@politico) November 7, 2022

---

Geez, stop.with the fraud ***** GOP lost, deal with it. Need better candidates and message that attracts younger voters and Hispanics to GOP. This fraud crap just alienates voters.

If there is proof investigate, prosecute, convict and talk about after you get conviction. Or, it'd more Jan 6th BS.

---

I posted this before the outcome because liberal media was saying fraud was possible when they've been saying it's impossible for the past two years.

---

Yeah, but it is time to look in the mirror. The fact that this election was close enough for fraud to play a role with Biden in the White House should be a red flag. We are living in the 70's and instead of a wave bringing Reagan in to right the ship, the electorate voted to maintain the status quo with these clowns at the wheel rather than give Trump and his crowd another shot. What does that tell you???

Some on here, they are doubling down into the MAGA/Brietbert line that it is fraud, media-bias and that the American people really do want Trump and his band to save the day. But, if that is the case, why are they attacking winning GOP members? They are actively trying to intimidate, bad-mouth and humiliate GOP winners that are on their side??? That is the actions of someone that is going to save the Party?

Trump and his band are the problem, just as much as Pelosi and the Squad. They are the same on extreme ends of the political spectrum, but at that point a tyrant is a tyrant. Lenin and Hitler didn't operate too far apart, even though they believed 100% different politics.

---

…do you know that I predicted GOP would do terrible in midterms and that I'm ready to get past Trump?

---

Trump is the Dem's best asset .

Amazing how many conservatives can't accept this even now.

---

I am amazed at how many are defending his position in the GOP after last election and his antics this week. He is poison.

---

You might want to consider the idea that more than Trump-MAGA being electoral poison… the establishment corporate GOP is electoral poison.

A lot of people want to get past Trumpism and get back to good ole days of "invade the world-invite the world-look out for Wall St." George W. Bush type Republicanism.

Problem is there is no path to national power that way.

Everyone hates it.

Even the dire hard Red State voters that would stick with a Bush-Paul Ryan-Cheney-Romney type GOP would vote red out of loyalty but hate the actual party positions and leadership. And it would almost never take the White House again.

---

So, why do we have to like Romney or McCain if we don't like Trump and his MAGA crowd? You are making it an either/or. I disagree with that.

DeSantis's Florida is not McCain/Romney-ish and he is not MAGA like Trump, Greene, Gaetz, Lake and Briebert. He has done a damn good job, pushed back on the stupid stuff, embraced the conservative and has increased business. His one flaw, he may not be "warm" enough, he can come across mean.

---

Desantis is not MAGA like Trump. He's MAGA better than Trump.

THAT'S his core appeal. He's Trump without the warts

And you watch. The media is going to start laying the wood to him. The will call him Trump 2.0.

---

Start? DeSantis already is A THREAT TO DEMOCRAT!?!

---

"Glass Jaw"
"more dangerous"
etc.....

It's already started.

The moderate GOP'er thinks we can have a high, wide, handsome candidate that will be immune to all such critique. What sophomorically unrealistic thinking. It does not matter how nice or proper or gentlemanly a candidate can be. If he/she is running against a Democrat, he/she will be a threat to democracy. Democrats live in a world where they are the good guys and anyone who disagrees with them is a proto-fascist. Worst of all, they genuinely believe it.

We have to do a better job of pointing out that the true threat to democracy is the Democrat Party. Desantis is onto that them when he talks about liberty and freedom. Trump addresses it differently, and obliquely - "drain the swamp" "these people are crooks/incompetent/stupid." Both are on the relevant points to make. Primary voters are going to decide which messaging will be more effective.

---

It's nothing new. It does not matter what a Republican believes, says, or does, the Democrats and regime media constantly play to emotional hysterics and their base.

---

I don't know how familiar you are with conservatives and conservative media, but oddly enough they do the same thing.

---

I am not. I would ask you for specifics but we both know that's not going to happen. I think you realized after your mask "study" you're better off just posting DEBUNKED!

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Things change depending on who wins.

The 2020 presidential election was rife with allegations of voting machine hacks that were later debunked.

Yet there are real risks that hackers could tunnel into voting equipment and other election infrastructure to try to undermine Tuesday’s vote.https://t.co/kDij1J08eU

— POLITICO (@politico) November 7, 2022

---

Geez, stop.with the fraud ***** GOP lost, deal with it. Need better candidates and message that attracts younger voters and Hispanics to GOP. This fraud crap just alienates voters.

If there is proof investigate, prosecute, convict and talk about after you get conviction. Or, it'd more Jan 6th BS.

---

I posted this before the outcome because liberal media was saying fraud was possible when they've been saying it's impossible for the past two years.

---

Yeah, but it is time to look in the mirror. The fact that this election was close enough for fraud to play a role with Biden in the White House should be a red flag. We are living in the 70's and instead of a wave bringing Reagan in to right the ship, the electorate voted to maintain the status quo with these clowns at the wheel rather than give Trump and his crowd another shot. What does that tell you???

Some on here, they are doubling down into the MAGA/Brietbert line that it is fraud, media-bias and that the American people really do want Trump and his band to save the day. But, if that is the case, why are they attacking winning GOP members? They are actively trying to intimidate, bad-mouth and humiliate GOP winners that are on their side??? That is the actions of someone that is going to save the Party?

Trump and his band are the problem, just as much as Pelosi and the Squad. They are the same on extreme ends of the political spectrum, but at that point a tyrant is a tyrant. Lenin and Hitler didn't operate too far apart, even though they believed 100% different politics.

---

…do you know that I predicted GOP would do terrible in midterms and that I'm ready to get past Trump?

---

Trump is the Dem's best asset .

Amazing how many conservatives can't accept this even now.

---

I am amazed at how many are defending his position in the GOP after last election and his antics this week. He is poison.

---

You might want to consider the idea that more than Trump-MAGA being electoral poison… the establishment corporate GOP is electoral poison.

A lot of people want to get past Trumpism and get back to good ole days of "invade the world-invite the world-look out for Wall St." George W. Bush type Republicanism.

Problem is there is no path to national power that way.

Everyone hates it.

Even the dire hard Red State voters that would stick with a Bush-Paul Ryan-Cheney-Romney type GOP would vote red out of loyalty but hate the actual party positions and leadership. And it would almost never take the White House again.

---

So, why do we have to like Romney or McCain if we don't like Trump and his MAGA crowd? You are making it an either/or. I disagree with that.

DeSantis's Florida is not McCain/Romney-ish and he is not MAGA like Trump, Greene, Gaetz, Lake and Briebert. He has done a damn good job, pushed back on the stupid stuff, embraced the conservative and has increased business. His one flaw, he may not be "warm" enough, he can come across mean.

---

Desantis is not MAGA like Trump. He's MAGA better than Trump.

THAT'S his core appeal. He's Trump without the warts

And you watch. The media is going to start laying the wood to him. The will call him Trump 2.0.

---

Start? DeSantis already is A THREAT TO DEMOCRAT!?!

---

"Glass Jaw"
"more dangerous"
etc.....

It's already started.

The moderate GOP'er thinks we can have a high, wide, handsome candidate that will be immune to all such critique. What sophomorically unrealistic thinking. It does not matter how nice or proper or gentlemanly a candidate can be. If he/she is running against a Democrat, he/she will be a threat to democracy. Democrats live in a world where they are the good guys and anyone who disagrees with them is a proto-fascist. Worst of all, they genuinely believe it.

We have to do a better job of pointing out that the true threat to democracy is the Democrat Party. Desantis is onto that them when he talks about liberty and freedom. Trump addresses it differently, and obliquely - "drain the swamp" "these people are crooks/incompetent/stupid." Both are on the relevant points to make. Primary voters are going to decide which messaging will be more effective.

---

It's nothing new. It does not matter what a Republican believes, says, or does, the Democrats and regime media constantly play to emotional hysterics and their base.

---

I don't know how familiar you are with conservatives and conservative media, but oddly enough they do the same thing.

---

I am not. I would ask you for specifics but we both know that's not going to happen. I think you realized after your mask "study" you're better off just posting DEBUNKED!

---

Every accusation a confession.

For you liberals...it doesnt work the other way around.

Married A Horn said:

---

For you liberals...it doesnt work the other way around.

---

Hypocrisy never does.

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

We need to dump Trump, but if we go back to Romney and Paul Ryan types, I'm not supporting the party at all.

---

Agreed.

Spine is a must-have.

---

For whatever reason, no matter who is right or wrong, Progressive Democrats has morphed into a vindictive, threatening group that has no tolerance for anyone that does not think like them. That is NOT a governing party. That is a danger.

---

Corrected for accuracy.

---

I don't disagree with that change. I still believe that it implies to MAGA as well. The extremists on both sides have gotten to the point where they are destroying our Nation. Sadly, the internet and social media is creating a more polarized nation, not a more united. It is like it is a PsyOp...

RMF5630 said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

We need to dump Trump, but if we go back to Romney and Paul Ryan types, I'm not supporting the party at all.

---

Agreed.

Spine is a must-have.

---

For whatever reason, no matter who is right or wrong, Progressive Democrats has morphed into a vindictive, threatening group that has no tolerance for anyone that does not think like them. That is NOT a governing party. That is a danger.

---

Corrected for accuracy.

---

I don't disagree with that change. I still believe that it implies to MAGA as well. The extremists on both sides have gotten to the point where they are destroying our Nation. Sadly, the internet and social media is creating a more polarized nation, not a more united. It is like it is a PsyOp...

---

Ok, I will agree. But, our current cancel culture didn't come from MAGA. From the fringes of MAGA there are some really bad elements, but when the MSM creates the narrative that they are "THE" threat to democracy, and the same comes from the Commander in Chief, that is simply not true. There are threats to democracy from the left and right, are they equal, that I don't know, but they are present. The left version of it seems to be very intolerant of any thought not in lock step.

Such as, if you worry about election integrity, you are an "election denier" and branded a kook. If you don't believe transwomen aka men, should compete with real women, you are a bigoted hater, who doesn't like equality and freedom.

But, fair enough, Jan. 6th earned MAGA some real condemnation.

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

We need to dump Trump, but if we go back to Romney and Paul Ryan types, I'm not supporting the party at all.

---

Agreed.

Spine is a must-have.

---

For whatever reason, no matter who is right or wrong, Progressive Democrats has morphed into a vindictive, threatening group that has no tolerance for anyone that does not think like them. That is NOT a governing party. That is a danger.

---

Corrected for accuracy.

---

I don't disagree with that change. I still believe that it implies to MAGA as well. The extremists on both sides have gotten to the point where they are destroying our Nation. Sadly, the internet and social media is creating a more polarized nation, not a more united. It is like it is a PsyOp...

---

Ok, I will agree. But, our current cancel culture didn't come from MAGA. From the fringes of MAGA there are some really bad elements, but when the MSM creates the narrative that they are "THE" threat to democracy, and the same comes from the Commander in Chief, that is simply not true. There are threats to democracy from the left and right, are they equal, that I don't know, but they are present. The left version of it seems to be very intolerant of any thought not in lock step.

Such as, if you worry about election integrity, you are an "election denier" and branded a kook. If you don't believe transwomen aka men, should compete with real women, you are a bigoted hater, who doesn't like equality and freedom.

But, fair enough, Jan. 6th earned MAGA some real condemnation.

---

I agree, it did not come from MAGA. The Progressive Left created the monster we have now.

Trump came into the White House as a dealmaker. He also in his own words was a "counterpuncher" in terms of dealing with attacks.

That is what I find so sad about our current condition, the Dems had a former Democrat dealmaker in the White House and they chose to attack and villainize him. Trump would have moved to the middle in order to cut a deal to accomplish what he wanted. All they had to do was ask for things. He wanted a Wall, he would have given DACA and other stuff to get it. Such an opportunity lost.

Now, after his experience in COVID and the 2020 election, he has turned to poison. His worst traits are all that remain and he wants revenge. The WH is not the place for that. It is sad, when he got there in 2016 he had a sense of humor, was willing to appoint people like Kelly, Mattis and others. They made fun of him and the Dems attacked him. In my opinion, that is what happened. Doesn't change my view of MAGA now, but it was not always that way.

RMF5630 said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

We need to dump Trump, but if we go back to Romney and Paul Ryan types, I'm not supporting the party at all.

---

Agreed.

Spine is a must-have.

---

For whatever reason, no matter who is right or wrong, Progressive Democrats has morphed into a vindictive, threatening group that has no tolerance for anyone that does not think like them. That is NOT a governing party. That is a danger.

---

Corrected for accuracy.

---

I don't disagree with that change. I still believe that it implies to MAGA as well. The extremists on both sides have gotten to the point where they are destroying our Nation. Sadly, the internet and social media is creating a more polarized nation, not a more united. It is like it is a PsyOp...

---

Ok, I will agree. But, our current cancel culture didn't come from MAGA. From the fringes of MAGA there are some really bad elements, but when the MSM creates the narrative that they are "THE" threat to democracy, and the same comes from the Commander in Chief, that is simply not true. There are threats to democracy from the left and right, are they equal, that I don't know, but they are present. The left version of it seems to be very intolerant of any thought not in lock step.

Such as, if you worry about election integrity, you are an "election denier" and branded a kook. If you don't believe transwomen aka men, should compete with real women, you are a bigoted hater, who doesn't like equality and freedom.

But, fair enough, Jan. 6th earned MAGA some real condemnation.

---

I agree, it did not come from MAGA. The Progressive Left created the monster we have now.

Trump came into the White House as a dealmaker. He also in his own words was a "counterpuncher" in terms of dealing with attacks.

That is what I find so sad about our current condition, the Dems had a former Democrat dealmaker in the White House and they chose to attack and villainize him. Trump would have moved to the middle in order to cut a deal to accomplish what he wanted. All they had to do was ask for things. He wanted a Wall, he would have given DACA and other stuff to get it. Such an opportunity lost.

Now, after his experience in COVID and the 2020 election, he has turned to poison. His worst traits are all that remain and he wants revenge. The WH is not the place for that. It is sad, when he got there in 2016 he had a sense of humor, was willing to appoint people like Kelly, Mattis and others. They made fun of him and the Dems attacked him. In my opinion, that is what happened. Doesn't change my view of MAGA now, but it was not always that way.

---

The problem is Congress has become even more dysfunctional and full of extreme partisans LARPing as legislators. The actual THREAT TO DEMOCRACY is the continued consolidation of power in the Executive branch and it being weaponized against political opponents.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

We need to dump Trump, but if we go back to Romney and Paul Ryan types, I'm not supporting the party at all.

---

Agreed.

Spine is a must-have.

---

For whatever reason, no matter who is right or wrong, Progressive Democrats has morphed into a vindictive, threatening group that has no tolerance for anyone that does not think like them. That is NOT a governing party. That is a danger.

---

Corrected for accuracy.

---

I don't disagree with that change. I still believe that it implies to MAGA as well. The extremists on both sides have gotten to the point where they are destroying our Nation. Sadly, the internet and social media is creating a more polarized nation, not a more united. It is like it is a PsyOp...

---

Ok, I will agree. But, our current cancel culture didn't come from MAGA. From the fringes of MAGA there are some really bad elements, but when the MSM creates the narrative that they are "THE" threat to democracy, and the same comes from the Commander in Chief, that is simply not true. There are threats to democracy from the left and right, are they equal, that I don't know, but they are present. The left version of it seems to be very intolerant of any thought not in lock step.

Such as, if you worry about election integrity, you are an "election denier" and branded a kook. If you don't believe transwomen aka men, should compete with real women, you are a bigoted hater, who doesn't like equality and freedom.

But, fair enough, Jan. 6th earned MAGA some real condemnation.

---

I agree, it did not come from MAGA. The Progressive Left created the monster we have now.

Trump came into the White House as a dealmaker. He also in his own words was a "counterpuncher" in terms of dealing with attacks.

That is what I find so sad about our current condition, the Dems had a former Democrat dealmaker in the White House and they chose to attack and villainize him. Trump would have moved to the middle in order to cut a deal to accomplish what he wanted. All they had to do was ask for things. He wanted a Wall, he would have given DACA and other stuff to get it. Such an opportunity lost.

Now, after his experience in COVID and the 2020 election, he has turned to poison. His worst traits are all that remain and he wants revenge. The WH is not the place for that. It is sad, when he got there in 2016 he had a sense of humor, was willing to appoint people like Kelly, Mattis and others. They made fun of him and the Dems attacked him. In my opinion, that is what happened. Doesn't change my view of MAGA now, but it was not always that way.

---

The problem is Congress has become even more dysfunctional and full of extreme partisans LARPing as legislators. The actual THREAT TO DEMOCRACY is the continued consolidation of power in the Executive branch and it being weaponized against political opponents.

---

No argument there.

I would have no problem with the President having to get permission from a Congressional Committee on using the military. Not a declaration of war, but a majority vote from the Committee. The current set up gets us in too many foreign, non-treaty entanglements.

RMF5630 said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

We need to dump Trump, but if we go back to Romney and Paul Ryan types, I'm not supporting the party at all.

---

Agreed.

Spine is a must-have.

---

For whatever reason, no matter who is right or wrong, Progressive Democrats has morphed into a vindictive, threatening group that has no tolerance for anyone that does not think like them. That is NOT a governing party. That is a danger.

---

Corrected for accuracy.

---

I don't disagree with that change. I still believe that it implies to MAGA as well. The extremists on both sides have gotten to the point where they are destroying our Nation. Sadly, the internet and social media is creating a more polarized nation, not a more united. It is like it is a PsyOp...

---

Ok, I will agree. But, our current cancel culture didn't come from MAGA. From the fringes of MAGA there are some really bad elements, but when the MSM creates the narrative that they are "THE" threat to democracy, and the same comes from the Commander in Chief, that is simply not true. There are threats to democracy from the left and right, are they equal, that I don't know, but they are present. The left version of it seems to be very intolerant of any thought not in lock step.

Such as, if you worry about election integrity, you are an "election denier" and branded a kook. If you don't believe transwomen aka men, should compete with real women, you are a bigoted hater, who doesn't like equality and freedom.

But, fair enough, Jan. 6th earned MAGA some real condemnation.

---

I agree, it did not come from MAGA. The Progressive Left created the monster we have now.

Trump came into the White House as a dealmaker. He also in his own words was a "counterpuncher" in terms of dealing with attacks.

That is what I find so sad about our current condition, the Dems had a former Democrat dealmaker in the White House and they chose to attack and villainize him. Trump would have moved to the middle in order to cut a deal to accomplish what he wanted. All they had to do was ask for things. He wanted a Wall, he would have given DACA and other stuff to get it. Such an opportunity lost.

Now, after his experience in COVID and the 2020 election, he has turned to poison. His worst traits are all that remain and he wants revenge. The WH is not the place for that. It is sad, when he got there in 2016 he had a sense of humor, was willing to appoint people like Kelly, Mattis and others. They made fun of him and the Dems attacked him. In my opinion, that is what happened. Doesn't change my view of MAGA now, but it was not always that way.

---

I can't see anything here is disagree with here, and bolded is why Trump simply has to go away or the Republican party won't recover from the directionless malaise it is currently experiencing. Trump cannot be the leader of the Republican party.

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

We need to dump Trump, but if we go back to Romney and Paul Ryan types, I'm not supporting the party at all.

---

Agreed.

Spine is a must-have.

---

For whatever reason, no matter who is right or wrong, Progressive Democrats has morphed into a vindictive, threatening group that has no tolerance for anyone that does not think like them. That is NOT a governing party. That is a danger.

---

Corrected for accuracy.

---

I don't disagree with that change. I still believe that it implies to MAGA as well. The extremists on both sides have gotten to the point where they are destroying our Nation. Sadly, the internet and social media is creating a more polarized nation, not a more united. It is like it is a PsyOp...

---

Ok, I will agree. But, our current cancel culture didn't come from MAGA. From the fringes of MAGA there are some really bad elements, but when the MSM creates the narrative that they are "THE" threat to democracy, and the same comes from the Commander in Chief, that is simply not true. There are threats to democracy from the left and right, are they equal, that I don't know, but they are present. The left version of it seems to be very intolerant of any thought not in lock step.

Such as, if you worry about election integrity, you are an "election denier" and branded a kook. If you don't believe transwomen aka men, should compete with real women, you are a bigoted hater, who doesn't like equality and freedom.

But, fair enough, Jan. 6th earned MAGA some real condemnation.

---

I agree, it did not come from MAGA. The Progressive Left created the monster we have now.

Trump came into the White House as a dealmaker. He also in his own words was a "counterpuncher" in terms of dealing with attacks.

That is what I find so sad about our current condition, the Dems had a former Democrat dealmaker in the White House and they chose to attack and villainize him. Trump would have moved to the middle in order to cut a deal to accomplish what he wanted. All they had to do was ask for things. He wanted a Wall, he would have given DACA and other stuff to get it. Such an opportunity lost.

Now, after his experience in COVID and the 2020 election, he has turned to poison. His worst traits are all that remain and he wants revenge. The WH is not the place for that. It is sad, when he got there in 2016 he had a sense of humor, was willing to appoint people like Kelly, Mattis and others. They made fun of him and the Dems attacked him. In my opinion, that is what happened. Doesn't change my view of MAGA now, but it was not always that way.

---

I can't see anything here is disagree with here, and bolded is why Trump simply has to go away or the Republican party won't recover from the directionless malaise it is currently experiencing. Trump cannot be the leader of the Republican party.

---

We are in agreement. Someone new has to step up. But, along with the policies, they need a vision for the US that they can describe to the electorate. An area Reagan excelled. We do not have anyone that makes you feel good to be an American and want to go forward to make things better. Right now, a lot of messages on undoing past wrongs, America is wrong and what Trump wants is racist. Can't have that. Need a positive vision, not sure DeSantis can deliver that...

ron.reagan said:

---

Trump already lost at at time he had much more support in the party. He can't win with less party support. The voters understand that.

---

It's fair to say we have a clear-to-strong majority of people posting on this thread who will not be voting for Trump in the primary. That raises an interesting point that has thus far been overlooked.

What demographic applies to the people posting in this discussion?
How much do they have in common with the entirety of MAGA-world?
What do we know about MAGA-world: blue collar, working class, no college education, multi-race, etc....

I stood in line at Napa Auto Parts Bellmead on Saturday for a good long while (only one person showed up to work), and got to listen to a very blue collar hispanic gentleman hold court on how government was making all kinds of deals to screw over the little guy. At one point when he slowed down a bit, I cautioned him with one of my standard lines: "shhh...don't bother them....they're saving the planet." And then he went off on gas prices, and the insanity of electric vehicles. He's a guy who intuitively grasped that electric garbage trucks were a non-starter but he could never have articulated a joke on the inherent irony of such a monstrosity. His schtick wobbled around on an axis of crackpot conspiracy, idiot savant, and searing indictment on the vanity of cultural elites. He had the whole store in stitches. "Don't stop him....he's on a roll."

Don't overlook the class dynamic going on.
Half the people in the country have below average intelligence.
Enormous numbers of people like and trust Trump in ways that "their betters" cannot fully appreciate.
I think that's what is leading most to think that Trump is already done poke him with a fork.
I suspect that is quite a bit premature, gentlemen.

75m people voted for him in 2020. That's a pretty good starting point for any politician.

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

We need to dump Trump, but if we go back to Romney and Paul Ryan types, I'm not supporting the party at all.

---

Agreed.

Spine is a must-have.

---

For whatever reason, no matter who is right or wrong, Progressive Democrats has morphed into a vindictive, threatening group that has no tolerance for anyone that does not think like them. That is NOT a governing party. That is a danger.

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Corrected for accuracy.

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I don't disagree with that change. I still believe that it implies to MAGA as well. The extremists on both sides have gotten to the point where they are destroying our Nation. Sadly, the internet and social media is creating a more polarized nation, not a more united. It is like it is a PsyOp...

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Ok, I will agree. But, our current cancel culture didn't come from MAGA. From the fringes of MAGA there are some really bad elements, but when the MSM creates the narrative that they are "THE" threat to democracy, and the same comes from the Commander in Chief, that is simply not true. There are threats to democracy from the left and right, are they equal, that I don't know, but they are present. The left version of it seems to be very intolerant of any thought not in lock step.

Such as, if you worry about election integrity, you are an "election denier" and branded a kook. If you don't believe transwomen aka men, should compete with real women, you are a bigoted hater, who doesn't like equality and freedom.

But, fair enough, Jan. 6th earned MAGA some real condemnation.

---

I agree, it did not come from MAGA. The Progressive Left created the monster we have now.

Trump came into the White House as a dealmaker. He also in his own words was a "counterpuncher" in terms of dealing with attacks.

That is what I find so sad about our current condition, the Dems had a former Democrat dealmaker in the White House and they chose to attack and villainize him. Trump would have moved to the middle in order to cut a deal to accomplish what he wanted. All they had to do was ask for things. He wanted a Wall, he would have given DACA and other stuff to get it. Such an opportunity lost.

Now, after his experience in COVID and the 2020 election, he has turned to poison. His worst traits are all that remain and he wants revenge. The WH is not the place for that. It is sad, when he got there in 2016 he had a sense of humor, was willing to appoint people like Kelly, Mattis and others. They made fun of him and the Dems attacked him. In my opinion, that is what happened. Doesn't change my view of MAGA now, but it was not always that way.

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I can't see anything here is disagree with here, and bolded is why Trump simply has to go away or the Republican party won't recover from the directionless malaise it is currently experiencing. Trump cannot be the leader of the Republican party.

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Agreed

Forest Bueller_bf said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Forest Bueller_bf said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Forest Bueller_bf said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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We need to dump Trump, but if we go back to Romney and Paul Ryan types, I'm not supporting the party at all.

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Agreed.

Spine is a must-have.

---

For whatever reason, no matter who is right or wrong, Progressive Democrats has morphed into a vindictive, threatening group that has no tolerance for anyone that does not think like them. That is NOT a governing party. That is a danger.

---

Corrected for accuracy.

---

I don't disagree with that change. I still believe that it implies to MAGA as well. The extremists on both sides have gotten to the point where they are destroying our Nation. Sadly, the internet and social media is creating a more polarized nation, not a more united. It is like it is a PsyOp...

---

Ok, I will agree. But, our current cancel culture didn't come from MAGA. From the fringes of MAGA there are some really bad elements, but when the MSM creates the narrative that they are "THE" threat to democracy, and the same comes from the Commander in Chief, that is simply not true. There are threats to democracy from the left and right, are they equal, that I don't know, but they are present. The left version of it seems to be very intolerant of any thought not in lock step.

Such as, if you worry about election integrity, you are an "election denier" and branded a kook. If you don't believe transwomen aka men, should compete with real women, you are a bigoted hater, who doesn't like equality and freedom.

But, fair enough, Jan. 6th earned MAGA some real condemnation.

---

I agree, it did not come from MAGA. The Progressive Left created the monster we have now.

Trump came into the White House as a dealmaker. He also in his own words was a "counterpuncher" in terms of dealing with attacks.

That is what I find so sad about our current condition, the Dems had a former Democrat dealmaker in the White House and they chose to attack and villainize him. Trump would have moved to the middle in order to cut a deal to accomplish what he wanted. All they had to do was ask for things. He wanted a Wall, he would have given DACA and other stuff to get it. Such an opportunity lost.

Now, after his experience in COVID and the 2020 election, he has turned to poison. His worst traits are all that remain and he wants revenge. The WH is not the place for that. It is sad, when he got there in 2016 he had a sense of humor, was willing to appoint people like Kelly, Mattis and others. They made fun of him and the Dems attacked him. In my opinion, that is what happened. Doesn't change my view of MAGA now, but it was not always that way.

---

I can't see anything here is disagree with here, and bolded is why Trump simply has to go away or the Republican party won't recover from the directionless malaise it is currently experiencing. Trump cannot be the leader of the Republican party.

---

+ 1

Harrison Bergeron said:

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Can anyone find one example where a Republican magically came back to win a tight race after a long "delay" in counting?

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Not since GWB.

Sam Lowry said:

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Married A Horn said:

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For you liberals...it doesnt work the other way around.

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Hypocrisy never does.

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You seem to use it a lot, Sam.

whiterock said:

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ron.reagan said:

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Trump already lost at at time he had much more support in the party. He can't win with less party support. The voters understand that.

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Half the people in the country have below average intelligence.

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Half the people in the country have below median intelligence. A majority may have above average intelligence if the minority is sufficiently unintelligent.

He Hate Me said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Can anyone find one example where a Republican magically came back to win a tight race after a long "delay" in counting?

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Not since GWB.

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Bush was not behind during the hand recounts.

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He was behind before them, which is what I thought the concern was. Trump, Perdue, etc. were ahead prior to the recounts then they lost. Lake was ahead as well, right?

ATL Bear said:

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He Hate Me said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Can anyone find one example where a Republican magically came back to win a tight race after a long "delay" in counting?

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Not since GWB.

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Bush was not behind during the hand recounts.

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He was behind before them, which is what I thought the concern was. Trump, Perdue, etc. were ahead prior to the recounts then they lost. Lake was ahead as well, right?

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No, I don't think so. I believe Bush was up by 300+ votes and finished up by 500+ votes after the recount. The problem was that the news called it for Gore and then retracted. It went back and forth on the calls from the pollsters hired by various TV crews, but the actual count was always a slim lead for 43.

I looked up the 2000 election and not sure how accurate the site I used was but this was the order of events in Florida.

Most of the state closed in the Eastern Time zone and news called Gore the winner but polls were still open in the panhandle in the Central Time Zone. The news retracted their winner declaration, the central time zone polls closed and Bush was declared the winner. Gore called him to concede, then retracted it. Then the news said it was too close to call. Then the recount happened.

So Bush led from the start after all polls had closed.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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RMF5630 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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I looked up the 2000 election and not sure how accurate the site I used was but this was the order of events in Florida.

Most of the state closed in the Eastern Time zone and news called Gore the winner but polls were still open in the panhandle in the Central Time Zone. The news retracted their winner declaration, the central time zone polls closed and Bush was declared the winner. Gore called him to concede, then retracted it. Then the news said it was too close to call. Then the recount happened.

So Bush led from the start after all polls had closed.

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Panhandle is pure Red. Calling for Gore before Panhandle was counted in an close race was stupid, never should have happened.

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It wasn't stupid if you are trying to suppress voter turnout in red districts.

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Which is exactly what they were trying to do with their premature election.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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RMF5630 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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I looked up the 2000 election and not sure how accurate the site I used was but this was the order of events in Florida.

Most of the state closed in the Eastern Time zone and news called Gore the winner but polls were still open in the panhandle in the Central Time Zone. The news retracted their winner declaration, the central time zone polls closed and Bush was declared the winner. Gore called him to concede, then retracted it. Then the news said it was too close to call. Then the recount happened.

So Bush led from the start after all polls had closed.

---

Panhandle is pure Red. Calling for Gore before Panhandle was counted in an close race was stupid, never should have happened.

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It wasn't stupid if you are trying to suppress voter turnout in red districts.

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I am talking from a new reporting position, not a strategy or believe that it was voter suppression.

Three Ways Democrats Perfected The ‘Bait-And-Switch’ On Gullible Voters This Midterm Election https://t.co/al1UnXJWgd

— Daily Wire News (@DailyWireNews) November 18, 2022

RMF5630 said:

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cowboycwr said:

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I looked up the 2000 election and not sure how accurate the site I used was but this was the order of events in Florida.

Most of the state closed in the Eastern Time zone and news called Gore the winner but polls were still open in the panhandle in the Central Time Zone. The news retracted their winner declaration, the central time zone polls closed and Bush was declared the winner. Gore called him to concede, then retracted it. Then the news said it was too close to call. Then the recount happened.

So Bush led from the start after all polls had closed.

---

Panhandle is pure Red. Calling for Gore before Panhandle was counted in an close race was stupid, never should have happened.

---

Even 22 years ago MSM was cheering on one side.

Forest Bueller_bf said:

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RMF5630 said:

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cowboycwr said:

---

I looked up the 2000 election and not sure how accurate the site I used was but this was the order of events in Florida.

Most of the state closed in the Eastern Time zone and news called Gore the winner but polls were still open in the panhandle in the Central Time Zone. The news retracted their winner declaration, the central time zone polls closed and Bush was declared the winner. Gore called him to concede, then retracted it. Then the news said it was too close to call. Then the recount happened.

So Bush led from the start after all polls had closed.

---

Panhandle is pure Red. Calling for Gore before Panhandle was counted in an close race was stupid, never should have happened.

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Even 22 years ago MSM was cheering on one side.

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I guess we need to curse God and die