Jinx 2 said:

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fadskier said:

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Jinx 2 said:

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quash said:

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LOL.

Either you give presidents credit for the economy (you) or you don't (me). Now you want it both ways: all the good was Trump; anything bad is Fed, the media, Democrats, swamp, etc.

There are some as think removing Trump would restore the GOP.

---

We have 8 or 9 parties under the umbrella of 2 parties.

Trump Republicans, neocons (to the extent those still exist), fiscally and socially conservative Chamber-of-Commerce corporate Republicans like Romney and Flake, evangelicals whose main concerns are social issues whom the GOP has embraced to get enough votes to elect guys like Trump, and moderate Republicans who like conservative fiscal and tax policies but not the anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-sex-education turn the GOP has taken = today's GOP. The Trump voices are the loudest, but the Romney voters are still out there. The deficit hawks are off the radar screen right now,but they'll show up again the day after the next Democrat takes office.

The Democrats = Bernie voters who want a harder turn to the left, Biden moderates who want a middle road without the anti-gay, anti-brown-immigrant bigotry and female-body-control policies advocated by the GOP (I'd include Harris in this group), "big idea" guys like Andrew Yang who want to create a rising tide that will lift all boats because they perceive, accurately, that "trickle down" doesn't work (but at least they're out there with new ideas, which no one in the GOP is offering because wall-building, stacking the courts, selling us out to the Saudis, the Russians and the Chinese (McConnell had better not utter a PEEP about Hunter Biden being as how he's married to China Rose), and defending Trump's latest misdeeds have proved to be more than a full-time job) , and a host of minority politicians whose only hope for a substantive political career is as Democrats because Republicans have made the same bad bargain with white nationalists that they made with evangelicals.

Then there are libertarians. My hope is that the GOP's shameless deficit spending combined with its attacks on civil liberties will shift more libertarian votes to Democrats, or at least away from Trump Republicans, who have been only too happy to trade liberty for obedience to the dear leader. Impeachment of this criminal can't happen soon enough.

---

Trump is not anti-Gay
Trump is not anti-brown immigrant
Trump does not want to control female body parts

Replace Trump with your generalized "republicans" and that's not true either. Sue there are some people that that are...but I think you need to educate yourself on the word "anti" because you have no idea what it means.

Do you ever say anything nice about anyone? You have got to be the most self-absorbed, unfriendly, unkind person I've ever "met." I truly hope you find happiness in something.

---

The GOP opposes civil rights for LGBT people and abortion and wants to limit contraception options to only those approved of by certain conservative religious groups.

Trump is the putative leader of the GOP.

I'm also mystified as to how you can say with a straight face that "Trump is not anti-brown immigrant" when he describes countries populated by brown people at ****hole countries and wants to build a wall, complete with alligator-filled moats, to keep refugees out of the U.S., when he implemented a travel ban that was rejected twice by federal courts for targeting brown people from Muslim countries, and when he wants to eliminate asylum rights we currently grant.

I have posted on this forum as "Jinx" for more than 10 years, but I have a life outside this forum. Believe it or not, I have sing in a church choir, walk my dog twice a day, have 2 grown daughters who have launched their own careers, have friends of all political persuasions (although, since Trump, I don't talk about certain policies with some of them), volunteer with a church ministry that feeds homeless and low-income people in the neighborhood surrounding the church, volunteer on an affordable housing task force with a nonprofit in my city as a policy-writer, and lead a happy and fulfilling life.

I oppose Trump because I want to continue to live in a country where dissent and disagreement over political policies are tolerated. Trump is the least tolerant president we've had during my lifetime of more than 60 years. He's a danger to democracy. So, yes, I'm angry at supporters who think, as one poster said within the past week on this forum, that democracy is overrated, and who want to hold Trump above/outside/beyond the laws that have applied to every other president and public official since I've been a voting adult. IMO, the rule of law, upholding the constitution and accountability are key to our system of government. Those of you who defend Trump regardless of how low he stoops and how obvious it is that he's engaged in criminal or even just sketchy behavior are, IMO, unAmerican.

---

What civil rights are LGBT people being denied in any Republican run state?

No Republican wants to control female body parts. They do however, ask that women control their own so that a life is not taken when they don't. Why do Dems hate life?

I cannot recall Republicans limiting contraception. Can you provide a reference?

YOU are the one that has used the word "brown" over and over again. First, there is absolutely NO proof that he used that term...but lets say he did. Name me a country in Africa that is successfully run. Name a country in Africa who's economy is steller. It has nothing to do with race or color, but facts...which you seem to wany to taint with racism. Furthermore, the countries on the travel ban were IDENTIFIED BY OBAMA...a fact you conveniently leave out.

Yes, we need something on our southern border. I'm pretty sure you don't live in Texas or in the valley as my BROWN relatives will tell you that we desperately need a barrier on our southern border...but please, continue to speak out of ignorance and spewing CNN, NY Times, etc. There are numerous FACTS that indicate that out southern border is a problem.

Again, as you have yet to answer, what do you mean about the rule of law? When has Trump failed to uphold the constitution? What do you want him held accountable for?

I am stunned that you accuse Trump supporters of stooping so low, when you yourself have stated on this very board that you believe and support Blasey Ford. A woman who waited over 30 years to come forward with a vague/factless/unsupported/unsubstantiated claim...a party that held on to that claim for months until the last minute. All of that over something in HIGH SCHOOL. To a man who had nothing but good things said about him BY WOMEN NO LESS over his professional career.

You ma'am have stooped lower than low...to support an attempt to ruin a man's life over that. Perhaps you should have listen more to the words you sang in that choir.

Jinx 2 said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Jinx 2 said:

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Those of you who defend Trump regardless of how low he stoops and how obvious it is that he's engaged in criminal or even just sketchy behavior are, IMO, unAmerican.

---

I don't defend Trump regardless. I just won't vote for gun confiscating, baby killing, welfare and free health care for illegal aliens, take away my private insurance, pro-reparations, pro-affirmative action socialist.

If I vote for Trump next year, it's your fault for not giving us a choice.

---

Then you'll vote from a platform of ignorance fed by right-wing news organizations promoting specious narratives about baby-killing (when abortion in the U.S. is at an all-time low mainly because more women are using effective long-term contraception) and gun confiscation (if that's happening, I'm certainly not aware of it).
I'll vote my conscience, as will you.

I'm OK with welfare--I don't want to live in a country where kids and single mothers starve and old people eat cat food. I'm willing to pay taxes to ensure people have food and a roof over their heads.
I said welfare for illegal aliens

As far as free healthcare for immigrants, where is that happening? Again, not in my city. Our painter is a legal Mexican immigrant with a green card, and I had to take him to the dentist and pay for his care when one of his teeth died.
Several of your candidates raised their hands when asked if they approved of this

We also have a policy of treating people who show up at the E.R. regardless of their ability to pay (or, at least we did in the past). If you want to change that,
I don't

I urge you to get your party--the Trump arm of the GOP--to campaign vigorously to eliminate one of the few remaining compassionate policies vis a vis healthcare that we have in this country. Maybe that selfish, misery, mean spirited attitude will speak loudly enough to brand the GOP as the "me and me only" party. A country led by such a party and people with such a low level of kindness and compassion isn't going to be good for anyone, including you. But you'll have to learn that the hard way.
I'm always willing to learn

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Those of you who defend Trump regardless of how low he stoops and how obvious it is that he's engaged in criminal or even just sketchy behavior are, IMO, unAmerican.

---

I don't defend Trump regardless. I just won't vote for gun confiscating, baby killing, welfare and free health care for illegal aliens, take away my private insurance, pro-reparations, pro-affirmative action socialist.

If I vote for Trump next year, it's your fault for not giving us a choice.

---

Then you'll vote from a platform of ignorance fed by right-wing news organizations promoting specious narratives about baby-killing (when abortion in the U.S. is at an all-time low mainly because more women are using effective long-term contraception) and gun confiscation (if that's happening, I'm certainly not aware of it).

I'm OK with welfare--I don't want to live in a country where kids and single mothers starve and old people eat cat food. I'm willing to pay taxes to ensure people have food and a roof over their heads.

As far as free healthcare for immigrants, where is that happening? Again, not in my city. Our painter is a legal Mexican immigrant with a green card, and I had to take him to the dentist and pay for his care when one of his teeth died.

We also have a policy of treating people who show up at the E.R. regardless of their ability to pay (or, at least we did in the past). If you want to change that, I urge you to get your party--the Trump arm of the GOP--to campaign vigorously to eliminate one of the few remaining compassionate policies vis a vis healthcare that we have in this country. Maybe that selfish, misery, mean spirited attitude will speak loudly enough to brand the GOP as the "me and me only" party. A country led by such a party and people with such a low level of kindness and compassion isn't going to be good for anyone, including you. But you'll have to learn that the hard way.

---

"As far as free healthcare for immigrants, where is that happening? Again, not in my city. Our painter is a legal Mexican immigrant with a green card, and I had to take him to the dentist and pay for his care when one of his teeth died."

The old, if I don't see it, I don't believe it argument.

My sister is a nurse. It happens...ALOT in Texas

william said:

---

bezus?

the canine jesus?

PA.

- UL

BID.

---

Sez the Ignatious J. Reilly of this board. Keep eating those donuts and brownies.

Jinx 2 said:

---

william said:

---

bezus?

the canine jesus?

PA.

- UL

BID.

---

Sez the Ignatious J. Reilly of this board. Keep eating those donuts and brownies.

---

Doc Holliday said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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fadskier said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

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Waco1947 said:

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YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

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xiledinok said:

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Trump does not abort babies!
Vote Red 2020!

---

That's not the issue. Women's Rights is the issue. Vote Blue .

---

Please detail any rights women have lost. Thanks.

---

The Right to their own health decisions

---

How so? Give an example.

---

Are we going to act like bodily autonomy isn't a right?

---

Again, when have women been denied this right to decide what to do with their body? Be specific.

---

If a woman no longer wishes to be pregnant, you would tell her she has no choice.

---

That's a lot better than bloodshed.

Keep voting Dem and we will have 8-9 month term babies ripped from the womb and executed by the thousands.

---

That's a lie.

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump does not abort babies!
Vote Red 2020!

---

That's not the issue. Women's Rights is the issue. Vote Blue .

---

Please detail any rights women have lost. Thanks.

---

The Right to their own health decisions

---

How so? Give an example.

---

Are we going to act like bodily autonomy isn't a right?

---

Again, when have women been denied this right to decide what to do with their body? Be specific.

---

If a woman no longer wishes to be pregnant, you would tell her she has no choice.

---

She had a choice. She's already made it.

Using your logic, if someone no longer wanted to be a parent, they could kill their child.

Sorry, I'm just asking women to be more responsible with their choices. Be pro-choice before you act.

---

No. This is bodily autonomy.

Either she has it or she doesn't.

I think every single abortion is a travesty and a tragedy. Every single one. However, banning abortion is robbing women (and only women) of their bodily autonomy. In our society, we allow LIBERTY to make certain choices.

I don't think any woman should ever have an abortion. Ever. But I think it is THEIR choice to make. Not yours. Not mine. Once we get into taking away one's right to bodily autonomy, then we are letting the state invade our very person and force us to do something that, let's just be frank, you have to want to do.

Also, abortion bans don't work. There have always been abortions. There always will be abortions.

If you were REALLY serious about ending abortions, you'd set the conditions needed to keep them from being needed in the first place. Support young mothers to be. Make it easier to adopt. Have comprehensive health education in our schools. Give contraception to absolutely anyone who wants it. Make it free. Allow women to get their tubes tied as easily as men can get vasectomies.

THAT would do much more to end abortion than any ban.

Jinx 2 said:

---

Then there are libertarians. My hope is that the GOP's shameless deficit spending combined with its attacks on civil liberties will shift more libertarian votes to Democrats, or at least away from Trump Republicans, who have been only too happy to trade liberty for obedience to the dear leader. Impeachment of this criminal can't happen soon enough.

---

As a former Libertarian for many, many years, I have a hard time seeing this. I agree that deficit spending qualifies as shameless, but believe your side can only accelerate an ever growing deficit via redistributionist policies and ever expanding entitlements certain to occur under Democrat leadership. As to trading liberty, your party is the poster child for control of everything whether by bureaucratic or judicial fiat, or misguided legislation. For all his ills and abrasive persona, I view Trump as the antidote.

Interesting article that I think has things about right:

" Legitimacy is bleeding away from American politics and society, and Trump is a symptom not the cause. The cause is the folly of America's leadership class as a whole. Electing Trump was the public's way of impeaching that class."


https://spectator.us/impeachment-regime-suicide/

fadskier said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Those of you who defend Trump regardless of how low he stoops and how obvious it is that he's engaged in criminal or even just sketchy behavior are, IMO, unAmerican.

---

I don't defend Trump regardless. I just won't vote for gun confiscating, baby killing, welfare and free health care for illegal aliens, take away my private insurance, pro-reparations, pro-affirmative action socialist.

If I vote for Trump next year, it's your fault for not giving us a choice.

---

Then you'll vote from a platform of ignorance fed by right-wing news organizations promoting specious narratives about baby-killing (when abortion in the U.S. is at an all-time low mainly because more women are using effective long-term contraception) and gun confiscation (if that's happening, I'm certainly not aware of it).

I'm OK with welfare--I don't want to live in a country where kids and single mothers starve and old people eat cat food. I'm willing to pay taxes to ensure people have food and a roof over their heads.

As far as free healthcare for immigrants, where is that happening? Again, not in my city. Our painter is a legal Mexican immigrant with a green card, and I had to take him to the dentist and pay for his care when one of his teeth died.

We also have a policy of treating people who show up at the E.R. regardless of their ability to pay (or, at least we did in the past). If you want to change that, I urge you to get your party--the Trump arm of the GOP--to campaign vigorously to eliminate one of the few remaining compassionate policies vis a vis healthcare that we have in this country. Maybe that selfish, misery, mean spirited attitude will speak loudly enough to brand the GOP as the "me and me only" party. A country led by such a party and people with such a low level of kindness and compassion isn't going to be good for anyone, including you. But you'll have to learn that the hard way.

---

"As far as free healthcare for immigrants, where is that happening? Again, not in my city. Our painter is a legal Mexican immigrant with a green card, and I had to take him to the dentist and pay for his care when one of his teeth died."

The old, if I don't see it, I don't believe it argument.

My sister is a nurse. It happens...ALOT in Texas

---

That's not healthcare, homie. That's emergency room/urgent care, etc.

Until we realize that actually having good, affordable healthcare SAVES money, we will never make the moves needed to bring down costs for everyone.

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Those of you who defend Trump regardless of how low he stoops and how obvious it is that he's engaged in criminal or even just sketchy behavior are, IMO, unAmerican.

---

I don't defend Trump regardless. I just won't vote for gun confiscating, baby killing, welfare and free health care for illegal aliens, take away my private insurance, pro-reparations, pro-affirmative action socialist.

If I vote for Trump next year, it's your fault for not giving us a choice.

---

Then you'll vote from a platform of ignorance fed by right-wing news organizations promoting specious narratives about baby-killing (when abortion in the U.S. is at an all-time low mainly because more women are using effective long-term contraception) and gun confiscation (if that's happening, I'm certainly not aware of it).

I'm OK with welfare--I don't want to live in a country where kids and single mothers starve and old people eat cat food. I'm willing to pay taxes to ensure people have food and a roof over their heads.

As far as free healthcare for immigrants, where is that happening? Again, not in my city. Our painter is a legal Mexican immigrant with a green card, and I had to take him to the dentist and pay for his care when one of his teeth died.

We also have a policy of treating people who show up at the E.R. regardless of their ability to pay (or, at least we did in the past). If you want to change that, I urge you to get your party--the Trump arm of the GOP--to campaign vigorously to eliminate one of the few remaining compassionate policies vis a vis healthcare that we have in this country. Maybe that selfish, misery, mean spirited attitude will speak loudly enough to brand the GOP as the "me and me only" party. A country led by such a party and people with such a low level of kindness and compassion isn't going to be good for anyone, including you. But you'll have to learn that the hard way.

---

"As far as free healthcare for immigrants, where is that happening? Again, not in my city. Our painter is a legal Mexican immigrant with a green card, and I had to take him to the dentist and pay for his care when one of his teeth died."

The old, if I don't see it, I don't believe it argument.

My sister is a nurse. It happens...ALOT in Texas

---

That's not healthcare, homie. That's emergency room/urgent care, etc.

Until we realize that actually having good, affordable healthcare SAVES money, we will never make the moves needed to bring down costs for everyone.

---

If they can't pay, it's free. homie.

And why are we responsible for the world's healthcare, homie?

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump does not abort babies!
Vote Red 2020!

---

That's not the issue. Women's Rights is the issue. Vote Blue .

---

Please detail any rights women have lost. Thanks.

---

The Right to their own health decisions

---

How so? Give an example.

---

Are we going to act like bodily autonomy isn't a right?

---

Again, when have women been denied this right to decide what to do with their body? Be specific.

---

If a woman no longer wishes to be pregnant, you would tell her she has no choice.

---

She had a choice. She's already made it.

Using your logic, if someone no longer wanted to be a parent, they could kill their child.

Sorry, I'm just asking women to be more responsible with their choices. Be pro-choice before you act.

---

No. This is bodily autonomy.

Either she has it or she doesn't.

I think every single abortion is a travesty and a tragedy. Every single one. However, banning abortion is robbing women (and only women) of their bodily autonomy. In our society, we allow LIBERTY to make certain choices.

I don't think any woman should ever have an abortion. Ever. But I think it is THEIR choice to make. Not yours. Not mine. Once we get into taking away one's right to bodily autonomy, then we are letting the state invade our very person and force us to do something that, let's just be frank, you have to want to do.

Also, abortion bans don't work. There have always been abortions. There always will be abortions.

If you were REALLY serious about ending abortions, you'd set the conditions needed to keep them from being needed in the first place. Support young mothers to be. Make it easier to adopt. Have comprehensive health education in our schools. Give contraception to absolutely anyone who wants it. Make it free. Allow women to get their tubes tied as easily as men can get vasectomies.

THAT would do much more to end abortion than any ban.

---

"If you were REALLY serious about ending abortions, you'd set the conditions needed to keep them from being needed in the first place. Support young mothers to be. Make it easier to adopt. Have comprehensive health education in our schools. Give contraception to absolutely anyone who wants it. Make it free. Allow women to get their tubes tied as easily as men can get vasectomies."

I support all of this. Not sure what you mean by some of it. Contraception IS free for many, many people and a condom costs 75 cents. Schools already have comprehensive health education. Why can't women get their tubes tied as easy as men?


BUT, if it's her choice to have it or not, then men should not be responsible for helping her financially. After all, it's HER choice. Right?

---

Please try again.

Contraception is NOT free. Not for all (your messiah Trump is attempting to undercut it at every possible turn).
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/court-trump-birth-control.html

Women's rights to get their tubes tied (or access to an IUD) are famously restrictive.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2012/06/choosing-to-be-child-free-tubes-tied-at-26.html
https://fox2now.com/2017/01/23/trumps-administration-is-already-reshaping-birth-control-in-america/

Comprehensive health education is available on average in blue states. In red states.... not so much. And what is available, is being fought tooth-and-nail by the current Republican party and administration.
Texas is one of 9 states with NO sex education mandate:

• Arizona
• Arkansas
• Colorado
• Florida
• Idaho
• Louisiana
• Massachusetts
• Texas
• Virginia

https://www.thoughtco.com/abstinence-only-sex-education-3533767

And it is her choice to have the child or not. Absolutely. But both are responsible. When men are having to carry the child, they can sue for support as well.

If you come and stay the night in my house and light some incense before falling asleep, fine. If you set the house on fire, you're responsible. Yes, I let you stay in my house.

If I am able to put the fire out without damage, great. You're off the hook. But if I can't, you're still on it.

curtpenn said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Then you'll vote from a platform of ignorance fed by right-wing news organizations promoting specious narratives about baby-killing (when abortion in the U.S. is at an all-time low mainly because more women are using effective long-term contraception) and gun confiscation (if that's happening, I'm certainly not aware of it).

---

The number of babies that were slaughtered before lunch today exceeds the number of all Americans who will be killed by scary looking evil black rifles this year, but never mind.... Oh, and the number of African-American babies killed every day is more than double the number of Americans killed all year by all long guns of any kind. Breaks my heart.

---

Yeah, I can tell it's the black babies you love so much from all the blacklivesmatter support you show.

BrooksBearLives said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Then you'll vote from a platform of ignorance fed by right-wing news organizations promoting specious narratives about baby-killing (when abortion in the U.S. is at an all-time low mainly because more women are using effective long-term contraception) and gun confiscation (if that's happening, I'm certainly not aware of it).

---

The number of babies that were slaughtered before lunch today exceeds the number of all Americans who will be killed by scary looking evil black rifles this year, but never mind.... Oh, and the number of African-American babies killed every day is more than double the number of Americans killed all year by all long guns of any kind. Breaks my heart.

---

Yeah, I can tell it's the black babies you love so much from all the blacklivesmatter support you show.

---

Yeah, I can tell it's the all the blacklivesmatter you love so much from all the abortion support you show.

curtpenn said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

Then you'll vote from a platform of ignorance fed by right-wing news organizations promoting specious narratives about baby-killing (when abortion in the U.S. is at an all-time low mainly because more women are using effective long-term contraception) and gun confiscation (if that's happening, I'm certainly not aware of it).

---

The number of babies that were slaughtered before lunch today exceeds the number of all Americans who will be killed by scary looking evil black rifles this year, but never mind.... Oh, and the number of African-American babies killed every day is more than double the number of Americans killed all year by all long guns of any kind. Breaks my heart.

---

Yeah, I can tell it's the black babies you love so much from all the blacklivesmatter support you show.

---

Yeah, I can tell it's the all the blacklivesmatter you love so much from all the abortion support you show.

---

BBL's probably as much as a racist abortion murderer as Cinque and Waco

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump does not abort babies!
Vote Red 2020!

---

That's not the issue. Women's Rights is the issue. Vote Blue .

---

Please detail any rights women have lost. Thanks.

---

The Right to their own health decisions

---

How so? Give an example.

---

Are we going to act like bodily autonomy isn't a right?

---

Again, when have women been denied this right to decide what to do with their body? Be specific.

---

If a woman no longer wishes to be pregnant, you would tell her she has no choice.

---

She had a choice. She's already made it.

Using your logic, if someone no longer wanted to be a parent, they could kill their child.

Sorry, I'm just asking women to be more responsible with their choices. Be pro-choice before you act.

---

No. This is bodily autonomy.

Either she has it or she doesn't.

I think every single abortion is a travesty and a tragedy. Every single one. However, banning abortion is robbing women (and only women) of their bodily autonomy. In our society, we allow LIBERTY to make certain choices.

I don't think any woman should ever have an abortion. Ever. But I think it is THEIR choice to make. Not yours. Not mine. Once we get into taking away one's right to bodily autonomy, then we are letting the state invade our very person and force us to do something that, let's just be frank, you have to want to do.

Also, abortion bans don't work. There have always been abortions. There always will be abortions.

If you were REALLY serious about ending abortions, you'd set the conditions needed to keep them from being needed in the first place. Support young mothers to be. Make it easier to adopt. Have comprehensive health education in our schools. Give contraception to absolutely anyone who wants it. Make it free. Allow women to get their tubes tied as easily as men can get vasectomies.

THAT would do much more to end abortion than any ban.

---

"If you were REALLY serious about ending abortions, you'd set the conditions needed to keep them from being needed in the first place. Support young mothers to be. Make it easier to adopt. Have comprehensive health education in our schools. Give contraception to absolutely anyone who wants it. Make it free. Allow women to get their tubes tied as easily as men can get vasectomies."

I support all of this. Not sure what you mean by some of it. Contraception IS free for many, many people and a condom costs 75 cents. Schools already have comprehensive health education. Why can't women get their tubes tied as easy as men?


BUT, if it's her choice to have it or not, then men should not be responsible for helping her financially. After all, it's HER choice. Right?

---

Please try again.

Contraception is NOT free. Not for all (your messiah Trump is attempting to undercut it at every possible turn).
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/court-trump-birth-control.html

Women's rights to get their tubes tied (or access to an IUD) are famously restrictive.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2012/06/choosing-to-be-child-free-tubes-tied-at-26.html
https://fox2now.com/2017/01/23/trumps-administration-is-already-reshaping-birth-control-in-america/

Comprehensive health education is available on average in blue states. In red states.... not so much. And what is available, is being fought tooth-and-nail by the current Republican party and administration.
Texas is one of 9 states with NO sex education mandate:

• Arizona
• Arkansas
• Colorado
• Florida
• Idaho
• Louisiana
• Massachusetts
• Texas
• Virginia

https://www.thoughtco.com/abstinence-only-sex-education-3533767

And it is her choice to have the child or not. Absolutely. But both are responsible. When men are having to carry the child, they can sue for support as well.

If you come and stay the night in my house and light some incense before falling asleep, fine. If you set the house on fire, you're responsible. Yes, I let you stay in my house.

If I am able to put the fire out without damage, great. You're off the hook. But if I can't, you're still on it.

---

1. Contraception IS free. Walk into a public clinic and/or Planned Parenthood and it is free. My sister directs people all the time to those resources. Additionally, there are many, many non-profits that give out free birth control. Just because the government doesn't do it, doesn't mean it's not happening.

2. Your slate article is form 2012 and 2016. Who was president in 2012? and the 2016 article is full of "coulds" and "mights."

3. Texas does have sex ed and it is not abstinence only. Each school district chooses according to it's taxpayers and what they want to use. My kids have attended three schools districts...all of them had sex ed and none were abstinence only. But then again, are you saying that teaching kids to say no isn't an option?

4. Sorry, you don't get to have the abortion argument both ways. It's incredibly unfair to men. Yes, the woman carries the child which is why she must be more responsible...not less. If she wants to kill it, men are not considered responsible...even though you yourself said they both were... BUT if he doesn't want it and she does...suddenly he's responsible.

5. Why are you so dependent on government to do things? Why are you so against holding individuals responsible for their own choices? Homie.

---

Texas has put most PP clinics out of business.

28.004 of the Texas Educ Code says districts are not free to do as they want. And abstinence must be taught as the preferred method if any sex ed is taught.

Jinx 2 said:

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quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

quash said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

We haven't had a president behave like Trump.

---

His greatest crime is his lack of subtlety, but even on that score he isn't the worst. Trump only joked about shooting someone, after all. Jackson actually did it.

---

Since lack of subtlelty is not a crime Trump should skate.

---

He will skate, or not, based on political calculations of the Senate.

---

Political calculations that include crimes as a significant variable. Unless it is true that Republicans Senators already want Trump gone, secretly. In which case any variable gives them cover.

---

Except voters will destroy them. They will never hold office again.

---

Right. Kinda like that 6% GDP you said was a correct prediction.

---

With a good Fed, it would be possible.

I underestimated the swamp's ability to stonewall and attack our President.

A removal of President Trump would cause a massive uprising, civil unrest and it would destroy the Republican party for decades. Not happening.

---

LOL.

Either you give presidents credit for the economy (you) or you don't (me). Now you want it both ways: all the good was Trump; anything bad is Fed, the media, Democrats, swamp, etc.

There are some as think removing Trump would restore the GOP.

---

We have 8 or 9 parties under the umbrella of 2 parties.

Trump Republicans, neocons (to the extent those still exist), fiscally and socially conservative Chamber-of-Commerce corporate Republicans like Romney and Flake, evangelicals whose main concerns are social issues whom the GOP has embraced to get enough votes to elect guys like Trump, and moderate Republicans who like conservative fiscal and tax policies but not the anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-sex-education turn the GOP has taken = today's GOP. The Trump voices are the loudest, but the Romney voters are still out there. The deficit hawks are off the radar screen right now,but they'll show up again the day after the next Democrat takes office.

The Democrats = Bernie voters who want a harder turn to the left, Biden moderates who want a middle road without the anti-gay, anti-brown-immigrant bigotry and female-body-control policies advocated by the GOP (I'd include Harris in this group), "big idea" guys like Andrew Yang who want to create a rising tide that will lift all boats because they perceive, accurately, that "trickle down" doesn't work (but at least they're out there with new ideas, which no one in the GOP is offering because wall-building, stacking the courts, selling us out to the Saudis, the Russians and the Chinese (McConnell had better not utter a PEEP about Hunter Biden being as how he's married to China Rose), and defending Trump's latest misdeeds have proved to be more than a full-time job) , and a host of minority politicians whose only hope for a substantive political career is as Democrats because Republicans have made the same bad bargain with white nationalists that they made with evangelicals.

Then there are libertarians. My hope is that the GOP's shameless deficit spending combined with its attacks on civil liberties will shift more libertarian votes to Democrats, or at least away from Trump Republicans, who have been only too happy to trade liberty for obedience to the dear leader. Impeachment of this criminal can't happen soon enough.

---

Funny thing is, "trickle down" as you like to call it, is a rising tide that lifts all boats. He just wants the government to have a little more directive in the ebbs and flows.

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

"As far as free healthcare for immigrants, where is that happening? Again, not in my city. Our painter is a legal Mexican immigrant with a green card, and I had to take him to the dentist and pay for his care when one of his teeth died."

The old, if I don't see it, I don't believe it argument.

My sister is a nurse. It happens...ALOT in Texas

---

That's not healthcare, homie. That's emergency room/urgent care, etc.

Until we realize that actually having good, affordable healthcare SAVES money, we will never make the moves needed to bring down costs for everyone.

---

All Democrats At Main Debate Agree Illegal Immigrants Should Get Health Care Coverage

MSNBC Democratic presidential primary debate co-moderator Savannah Guthrie asked the candidates to raise their hand if their healthcare plan would cover undocumented immigrants. President Donald Trump reacted on Twitter, calling it "the end of that race."

"This is a show of hands question and hold them up so people can see. Raise your hand if your government plan would provide coverage for undocumented immigrants," Guthrie said to the candidates Thursday night.

Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, Kamala Harris, Andrew Yang, Pete Buttigieg, Kirsten Gillibrand, Michael Bennet, Marianne Williamson, John Hickenlooper, and Eric Swalwell all raised their hand.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/27/all_dem_candidates_raise_hand_when_asked_if_illegal_immigrants_should_get_health_care_coverage_at_debate.html

quash said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump does not abort babies!
Vote Red 2020!

---

That's not the issue. Women's Rights is the issue. Vote Blue .

---

Please detail any rights women have lost. Thanks.

---

The Right to their own health decisions

---

How so? Give an example.

---

Are we going to act like bodily autonomy isn't a right?

---

Again, when have women been denied this right to decide what to do with their body? Be specific.

---

If a woman no longer wishes to be pregnant, you would tell her she has no choice.

---

She had a choice. She's already made it.

Using your logic, if someone no longer wanted to be a parent, they could kill their child.

Sorry, I'm just asking women to be more responsible with their choices. Be pro-choice before you act.

---

No. This is bodily autonomy.

Either she has it or she doesn't.

I think every single abortion is a travesty and a tragedy. Every single one. However, banning abortion is robbing women (and only women) of their bodily autonomy. In our society, we allow LIBERTY to make certain choices.

I don't think any woman should ever have an abortion. Ever. But I think it is THEIR choice to make. Not yours. Not mine. Once we get into taking away one's right to bodily autonomy, then we are letting the state invade our very person and force us to do something that, let's just be frank, you have to want to do.

Also, abortion bans don't work. There have always been abortions. There always will be abortions.

If you were REALLY serious about ending abortions, you'd set the conditions needed to keep them from being needed in the first place. Support young mothers to be. Make it easier to adopt. Have comprehensive health education in our schools. Give contraception to absolutely anyone who wants it. Make it free. Allow women to get their tubes tied as easily as men can get vasectomies.

THAT would do much more to end abortion than any ban.

---

"If you were REALLY serious about ending abortions, you'd set the conditions needed to keep them from being needed in the first place. Support young mothers to be. Make it easier to adopt. Have comprehensive health education in our schools. Give contraception to absolutely anyone who wants it. Make it free. Allow women to get their tubes tied as easily as men can get vasectomies."

I support all of this. Not sure what you mean by some of it. Contraception IS free for many, many people and a condom costs 75 cents. Schools already have comprehensive health education. Why can't women get their tubes tied as easy as men?


BUT, if it's her choice to have it or not, then men should not be responsible for helping her financially. After all, it's HER choice. Right?

---

Please try again.

Contraception is NOT free. Not for all (your messiah Trump is attempting to undercut it at every possible turn).
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/court-trump-birth-control.html

Women's rights to get their tubes tied (or access to an IUD) are famously restrictive.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2012/06/choosing-to-be-child-free-tubes-tied-at-26.html
https://fox2now.com/2017/01/23/trumps-administration-is-already-reshaping-birth-control-in-america/

Comprehensive health education is available on average in blue states. In red states.... not so much. And what is available, is being fought tooth-and-nail by the current Republican party and administration.
Texas is one of 9 states with NO sex education mandate:

• Arizona
• Arkansas
• Colorado
• Florida
• Idaho
• Louisiana
• Massachusetts
• Texas
• Virginia

https://www.thoughtco.com/abstinence-only-sex-education-3533767

And it is her choice to have the child or not. Absolutely. But both are responsible. When men are having to carry the child, they can sue for support as well.

If you come and stay the night in my house and light some incense before falling asleep, fine. If you set the house on fire, you're responsible. Yes, I let you stay in my house.

If I am able to put the fire out without damage, great. You're off the hook. But if I can't, you're still on it.

---

1. Contraception IS free. Walk into a public clinic and/or Planned Parenthood and it is free. My sister directs people all the time to those resources. Additionally, there are many, many non-profits that give out free birth control. Just because the government doesn't do it, doesn't mean it's not happening.

2. Your slate article is form 2012 and 2016. Who was president in 2012? and the 2016 article is full of "coulds" and "mights."

3. Texas does have sex ed and it is not abstinence only. Each school district chooses according to it's taxpayers and what they want to use. My kids have attended three schools districts...all of them had sex ed and none were abstinence only. But then again, are you saying that teaching kids to say no isn't an option?

4. Sorry, you don't get to have the abortion argument both ways. It's incredibly unfair to men. Yes, the woman carries the child which is why she must be more responsible...not less. If she wants to kill it, men are not considered responsible...even though you yourself said they both were... BUT if he doesn't want it and she does...suddenly he's responsible.

5. Why are you so dependent on government to do things? Why are you so against holding individuals responsible for their own choices? Homie.

---

Texas has put most PP clinics out of business.

28.004 of the Texas Educ Code says districts are not free to do as they want. And abstinence must be taught as the preferred method if any sex ed is taught.

---

False. Sorry, I've attended my child's classes. Look up the Scott and White program which is taught in many schools. It takes the approach of all the things that can happen if you choose to have sex. Not exactly abstinence based.

I know you want to believe that schools are telling kids to just say no, but they're aren't. They are saying to think carefully before you say yes.

31 of 74 PP clinics closed....that's not most. And since they do far more abortions that anything else, that's a good thing. Additionally, numerous preventative non-profit clinics have sprung up to fill the void of PP. These clinics actually give out free birth control.

I would recommend that you talk to people and look around before you just spout talking points.

fadskier said:

---

quash said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump does not abort babies!
Vote Red 2020!

---

That's not the issue. Women's Rights is the issue. Vote Blue .

---

Please detail any rights women have lost. Thanks.

---

The Right to their own health decisions

---

How so? Give an example.

---

Are we going to act like bodily autonomy isn't a right?

---

Again, when have women been denied this right to decide what to do with their body? Be specific.

---

If a woman no longer wishes to be pregnant, you would tell her she has no choice.

---

She had a choice. She's already made it.

Using your logic, if someone no longer wanted to be a parent, they could kill their child.

Sorry, I'm just asking women to be more responsible with their choices. Be pro-choice before you act.

---

No. This is bodily autonomy.

Either she has it or she doesn't.

I think every single abortion is a travesty and a tragedy. Every single one. However, banning abortion is robbing women (and only women) of their bodily autonomy. In our society, we allow LIBERTY to make certain choices.

I don't think any woman should ever have an abortion. Ever. But I think it is THEIR choice to make. Not yours. Not mine. Once we get into taking away one's right to bodily autonomy, then we are letting the state invade our very person and force us to do something that, let's just be frank, you have to want to do.

Also, abortion bans don't work. There have always been abortions. There always will be abortions.

If you were REALLY serious about ending abortions, you'd set the conditions needed to keep them from being needed in the first place. Support young mothers to be. Make it easier to adopt. Have comprehensive health education in our schools. Give contraception to absolutely anyone who wants it. Make it free. Allow women to get their tubes tied as easily as men can get vasectomies.

THAT would do much more to end abortion than any ban.

---

"If you were REALLY serious about ending abortions, you'd set the conditions needed to keep them from being needed in the first place. Support young mothers to be. Make it easier to adopt. Have comprehensive health education in our schools. Give contraception to absolutely anyone who wants it. Make it free. Allow women to get their tubes tied as easily as men can get vasectomies."

I support all of this. Not sure what you mean by some of it. Contraception IS free for many, many people and a condom costs 75 cents. Schools already have comprehensive health education. Why can't women get their tubes tied as easy as men?


BUT, if it's her choice to have it or not, then men should not be responsible for helping her financially. After all, it's HER choice. Right?

---

Please try again.

Contraception is NOT free. Not for all (your messiah Trump is attempting to undercut it at every possible turn).
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/court-trump-birth-control.html

Women's rights to get their tubes tied (or access to an IUD) are famously restrictive.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2012/06/choosing-to-be-child-free-tubes-tied-at-26.html
https://fox2now.com/2017/01/23/trumps-administration-is-already-reshaping-birth-control-in-america/

Comprehensive health education is available on average in blue states. In red states.... not so much. And what is available, is being fought tooth-and-nail by the current Republican party and administration.
Texas is one of 9 states with NO sex education mandate:

• Arizona
• Arkansas
• Colorado
• Florida
• Idaho
• Louisiana
• Massachusetts
• Texas
• Virginia

https://www.thoughtco.com/abstinence-only-sex-education-3533767

And it is her choice to have the child or not. Absolutely. But both are responsible. When men are having to carry the child, they can sue for support as well.

If you come and stay the night in my house and light some incense before falling asleep, fine. If you set the house on fire, you're responsible. Yes, I let you stay in my house.

If I am able to put the fire out without damage, great. You're off the hook. But if I can't, you're still on it.

---

1. Contraception IS free. Walk into a public clinic and/or Planned Parenthood and it is free. My sister directs people all the time to those resources. Additionally, there are many, many non-profits that give out free birth control. Just because the government doesn't do it, doesn't mean it's not happening.

2. Your slate article is form 2012 and 2016. Who was president in 2012? and the 2016 article is full of "coulds" and "mights."

3. Texas does have sex ed and it is not abstinence only. Each school district chooses according to it's taxpayers and what they want to use. My kids have attended three schools districts...all of them had sex ed and none were abstinence only. But then again, are you saying that teaching kids to say no isn't an option?

4. Sorry, you don't get to have the abortion argument both ways. It's incredibly unfair to men. Yes, the woman carries the child which is why she must be more responsible...not less. If she wants to kill it, men are not considered responsible...even though you yourself said they both were... BUT if he doesn't want it and she does...suddenly he's responsible.

5. Why are you so dependent on government to do things? Why are you so against holding individuals responsible for their own choices? Homie.

---

Texas has put most PP clinics out of business.

28.004 of the Texas Educ Code says districts are not free to do as they want. And abstinence must be taught as the preferred method if any sex ed is taught.

---

False. Sorry, I've attended my child's classes. Look up the Scott and White program which is taught in many schools. It takes the approach of all the things that can happen if you choose to have sex. Not exactly abstinence based.

I know you want to believe that schools are telling kids to just say no, but they're aren't. They are saying to think carefully before you say yes.

31 of 74 PP clinics closed....that's not most. And since they do far more abortions that anything else, that's a good thing. Additionally, numerous preventative non-profit clinics have sprung up to fill the void of PP. These clinics actually give out free birth control.

I would recommend that you talk to people and look around before you just spout talking points.

---

False? I gave you the statute, read it. If you choose to teach sex ed then abstinence has to be taught as the preferred method. That's the law, homie, not a talking point.

Only 35 PP clinics are still in Texas, so using your 74 that is still most.

Only six perform abortions.

Abortion services are 3.4% of PPT services. Not even close to "far more abortions than anything else".

quash said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

quash said:

---

There are some as think removing Trump would restore the GOP.

---

Then there are libertarians. My hope is that the GOP's shameless deficit spending combined with its attacks on civil liberties will shift more libertarian votes to Democrats,

---

Those libertarians who have voted Republican in the past are not going to vote Democratic over spending. A dozen other issues maybe, but that's frying pan to fire stuff right there.

---

I'm sure you're right. I had a Baylor friend who was a serious libertarian, and he and I drove to A&M to hear Ed Clarke speak when he was running for president. That's my last real substantive exposure to a serious Libertarian candidate.

But here's why I don't get that libertarians often vote with Republicans. Republicans AREN'T small government; they just have different priorities for government spending: defense, "nation building wars" (although the spectacular failure of Iraq has killed that for a whle), walls (which require a LOT of eminent domain, which seems about as anti-libertarian an action as there is), voting restrictions that block voters they don't think will vote for Republicans, educational restrictions on info they don't like (about slavery and sex ed and cliimate science these days), opposition to civil rights for gays, opposition to legailization of marijuana / reducing the criminal consequences of selling or buying drugs (in theory "victimless crimes" since people make a choice to use drugs, although some addiction experts would argue about the term "choice"), etc.

One of my biggest problems with Republicans is that their position on healthcare has precluded any serious discussions of real solutions.

Medicare works pretty well, which is why it has bipartisan support, even from Republican politicians who know they would lose and lose big if they tried (harder than they already are) to kill it.

Medicare's last significant expansion occurred under a REPUBLICAN administration (with the help of a lot of lobbying from big Pharma). There, GOP politicians got a twofer--gave people a benefit they needed (better access to prescription drugs) and also accommodating corporate interests bigtime (the U.S. doesn't negotiate on price).

So I'm trying to figure out why anyone thinks the GOP is the "small government" party.

Especially when one of the platforms they HAVE to stick with, because you can see how many people's support for the GOP is based on this single issue, is the strict regulation of a woman's uterus the instant an egg is fertilized. Are most libertarians male? That's kind of a laugh line, but this is a serous question. How much worse can a regulation be when it's literally up your ___?

quash said:

---

fadskier said:

---

quash said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump does not abort babies!
Vote Red 2020!

---

That's not the issue. Women's Rights is the issue. Vote Blue .

---

Please detail any rights women have lost. Thanks.

---

The Right to their own health decisions

---

How so? Give an example.

---

Are we going to act like bodily autonomy isn't a right?

---

Again, when have women been denied this right to decide what to do with their body? Be specific.

---

If a woman no longer wishes to be pregnant, you would tell her she has no choice.

---

She had a choice. She's already made it.

Using your logic, if someone no longer wanted to be a parent, they could kill their child.

Sorry, I'm just asking women to be more responsible with their choices. Be pro-choice before you act.

---

No. This is bodily autonomy.

Either she has it or she doesn't.

I think every single abortion is a travesty and a tragedy. Every single one. However, banning abortion is robbing women (and only women) of their bodily autonomy. In our society, we allow LIBERTY to make certain choices.

I don't think any woman should ever have an abortion. Ever. But I think it is THEIR choice to make. Not yours. Not mine. Once we get into taking away one's right to bodily autonomy, then we are letting the state invade our very person and force us to do something that, let's just be frank, you have to want to do.

Also, abortion bans don't work. There have always been abortions. There always will be abortions.

If you were REALLY serious about ending abortions, you'd set the conditions needed to keep them from being needed in the first place. Support young mothers to be. Make it easier to adopt. Have comprehensive health education in our schools. Give contraception to absolutely anyone who wants it. Make it free. Allow women to get their tubes tied as easily as men can get vasectomies.

THAT would do much more to end abortion than any ban.

---

"If you were REALLY serious about ending abortions, you'd set the conditions needed to keep them from being needed in the first place. Support young mothers to be. Make it easier to adopt. Have comprehensive health education in our schools. Give contraception to absolutely anyone who wants it. Make it free. Allow women to get their tubes tied as easily as men can get vasectomies."

I support all of this. Not sure what you mean by some of it. Contraception IS free for many, many people and a condom costs 75 cents. Schools already have comprehensive health education. Why can't women get their tubes tied as easy as men?


BUT, if it's her choice to have it or not, then men should not be responsible for helping her financially. After all, it's HER choice. Right?

---

Please try again.

Contraception is NOT free. Not for all (your messiah Trump is attempting to undercut it at every possible turn).
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/court-trump-birth-control.html

Women's rights to get their tubes tied (or access to an IUD) are famously restrictive.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2012/06/choosing-to-be-child-free-tubes-tied-at-26.html
https://fox2now.com/2017/01/23/trumps-administration-is-already-reshaping-birth-control-in-america/

Comprehensive health education is available on average in blue states. In red states.... not so much. And what is available, is being fought tooth-and-nail by the current Republican party and administration.
Texas is one of 9 states with NO sex education mandate:

• Arizona
• Arkansas
• Colorado
• Florida
• Idaho
• Louisiana
• Massachusetts
• Texas
• Virginia

https://www.thoughtco.com/abstinence-only-sex-education-3533767

And it is her choice to have the child or not. Absolutely. But both are responsible. When men are having to carry the child, they can sue for support as well.

If you come and stay the night in my house and light some incense before falling asleep, fine. If you set the house on fire, you're responsible. Yes, I let you stay in my house.

If I am able to put the fire out without damage, great. You're off the hook. But if I can't, you're still on it.

---

1. Contraception IS free. Walk into a public clinic and/or Planned Parenthood and it is free. My sister directs people all the time to those resources. Additionally, there are many, many non-profits that give out free birth control. Just because the government doesn't do it, doesn't mean it's not happening.

2. Your slate article is form 2012 and 2016. Who was president in 2012? and the 2016 article is full of "coulds" and "mights."

3. Texas does have sex ed and it is not abstinence only. Each school district chooses according to it's taxpayers and what they want to use. My kids have attended three schools districts...all of them had sex ed and none were abstinence only. But then again, are you saying that teaching kids to say no isn't an option?

4. Sorry, you don't get to have the abortion argument both ways. It's incredibly unfair to men. Yes, the woman carries the child which is why she must be more responsible...not less. If she wants to kill it, men are not considered responsible...even though you yourself said they both were... BUT if he doesn't want it and she does...suddenly he's responsible.

5. Why are you so dependent on government to do things? Why are you so against holding individuals responsible for their own choices? Homie.

---

Texas has put most PP clinics out of business.

28.004 of the Texas Educ Code says districts are not free to do as they want. And abstinence must be taught as the preferred method if any sex ed is taught.

---

False. Sorry, I've attended my child's classes. Look up the Scott and White program which is taught in many schools. It takes the approach of all the things that can happen if you choose to have sex. Not exactly abstinence based.

I know you want to believe that schools are telling kids to just say no, but they're aren't. They are saying to think carefully before you say yes.

31 of 74 PP clinics closed....that's not most. And since they do far more abortions that anything else, that's a good thing. Additionally, numerous preventative non-profit clinics have sprung up to fill the void of PP. These clinics actually give out free birth control.

I would recommend that you talk to people and look around before you just spout talking points.

---

False? I gave you the statute, read it. If you choose to teach sex ed then abstinence has to be taught as the preferred method. That's the law, homie, not a talking point.

Only 35 PP clinics are still in Texas, so using your 74 that is still most.

Only six perform abortions.

Abortion services are 3.4% of PPT services. Not even close to "far more abortions than anything else".

---

^^^ The mind of a baby murderer justifying killing

Jinx 2 said:

---

quash said:

---

Jinx 2 said:

---

quash said:

---

There are some as think removing Trump would restore the GOP.

---

Then there are libertarians. My hope is that the GOP's shameless deficit spending combined with its attacks on civil liberties will shift more libertarian votes to Democrats,

---

Those libertarians who have voted Republican in the past are not going to vote Democratic over spending. A dozen other issues maybe, but that's frying pan to fire stuff right there.

---

I'm sure you're right. I had a Baylor friend who was a serious libertarian, and he and I drove to A&M to hear Ed Clarke speak when he was running for president. That's my last real substantive exposure to a serious Libertarian candidate.

But here's why I don't get that libertarians often vote with Republicans. Republicans AREN'T small government; they just have different priorities for government spending: defense, "nation building wars" (although the spectacular failure of Iraq has killed that for a whle), walls (which require a LOT of eminent domain, which seems about as anti-libertarian an action as there is), voting restrictions that block voters they don't think will vote for Republicans, educational restrictions on info they don't like (about slavery and sex ed and cliimate science these days), opposition to civil rights for gays, opposition to legailization of marijuana / reducing the criminal consequences of selling or buying drugs (in theory "victimless crimes" since people make a choice to use drugs, although some addiction experts would argue about the term "choice"), etc.

One of my biggest problems with Republicans is that their position on healthcare has precluded any serious discussions of real solutions.

Medicare works pretty well, which is why it has bipartisan support, even from Republican politicians who know they would lose and lose big if they tried (harder than they already are) to kill it.

Medicare's last significant expansion occurred under a REPUBLICAN administration (with the help of a lot of lobbying from big Pharma). There, GOP politicians got a twofer--gave people a benefit they needed (better access to prescription drugs) and also accommodating corporate interests bigtime (the U.S. doesn't negotiate on price).

So I'm trying to figure out why anyone thinks the GOP is the "small government" party.

Especially when one of the platforms they HAVE to stick with, because you can see how many people's support for the GOP is based on this single issue, is the strict regulation of a woman's uterus the instant an egg is fertilized. Are most libertarians male? That's kind of a laugh line, but this is a serous question. How much worse can a regulation be when it's literally up your ___?

---

You phrased it in terms of libertarians deserting Republican candidates. Libertarians vote for Libertarians, for independents, and they choose not to vote in some races. Some do vote for Republicans (Amash, Massie eg.) and some even vote for Democrats (Dan Wyden eg.)

Some Republicans pissed the hell out of a lot of libertarian voters who relied on 60+ votes to repeal Obamacare, plus campaign promises to do so. And then we got Trumpcare. Lots of pissed off libertarians over that.

LP Texas conventions are mostly male. My local groups (three different cities) usually have female chairs. Go figure.

Florda_mike said:

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quash said:

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fadskier said:

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quash said:

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fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

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fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

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Waco1947 said:

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YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

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xiledinok said:

---

Trump does not abort babies!
Vote Red 2020!

---

That's not the issue. Women's Rights is the issue. Vote Blue .

---

Please detail any rights women have lost. Thanks.

---

The Right to their own health decisions

---

How so? Give an example.

---

Are we going to act like bodily autonomy isn't a right?

---

Again, when have women been denied this right to decide what to do with their body? Be specific.

---

If a woman no longer wishes to be pregnant, you would tell her she has no choice.

---

She had a choice. She's already made it.

Using your logic, if someone no longer wanted to be a parent, they could kill their child.

Sorry, I'm just asking women to be more responsible with their choices. Be pro-choice before you act.

---

No. This is bodily autonomy.

Either she has it or she doesn't.

I think every single abortion is a travesty and a tragedy. Every single one. However, banning abortion is robbing women (and only women) of their bodily autonomy. In our society, we allow LIBERTY to make certain choices.

I don't think any woman should ever have an abortion. Ever. But I think it is THEIR choice to make. Not yours. Not mine. Once we get into taking away one's right to bodily autonomy, then we are letting the state invade our very person and force us to do something that, let's just be frank, you have to want to do.

Also, abortion bans don't work. There have always been abortions. There always will be abortions.

If you were REALLY serious about ending abortions, you'd set the conditions needed to keep them from being needed in the first place. Support young mothers to be. Make it easier to adopt. Have comprehensive health education in our schools. Give contraception to absolutely anyone who wants it. Make it free. Allow women to get their tubes tied as easily as men can get vasectomies.

THAT would do much more to end abortion than any ban.

---

"If you were REALLY serious about ending abortions, you'd set the conditions needed to keep them from being needed in the first place. Support young mothers to be. Make it easier to adopt. Have comprehensive health education in our schools. Give contraception to absolutely anyone who wants it. Make it free. Allow women to get their tubes tied as easily as men can get vasectomies."

I support all of this. Not sure what you mean by some of it. Contraception IS free for many, many people and a condom costs 75 cents. Schools already have comprehensive health education. Why can't women get their tubes tied as easy as men?


BUT, if it's her choice to have it or not, then men should not be responsible for helping her financially. After all, it's HER choice. Right?

---

Please try again.

Contraception is NOT free. Not for all (your messiah Trump is attempting to undercut it at every possible turn).
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/court-trump-birth-control.html

Women's rights to get their tubes tied (or access to an IUD) are famously restrictive.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2012/06/choosing-to-be-child-free-tubes-tied-at-26.html
https://fox2now.com/2017/01/23/trumps-administration-is-already-reshaping-birth-control-in-america/

Comprehensive health education is available on average in blue states. In red states.... not so much. And what is available, is being fought tooth-and-nail by the current Republican party and administration.
Texas is one of 9 states with NO sex education mandate:

• Arizona
• Arkansas
• Colorado
• Florida
• Idaho
• Louisiana
• Massachusetts
• Texas
• Virginia

https://www.thoughtco.com/abstinence-only-sex-education-3533767

And it is her choice to have the child or not. Absolutely. But both are responsible. When men are having to carry the child, they can sue for support as well.

If you come and stay the night in my house and light some incense before falling asleep, fine. If you set the house on fire, you're responsible. Yes, I let you stay in my house.

If I am able to put the fire out without damage, great. You're off the hook. But if I can't, you're still on it.

---

1. Contraception IS free. Walk into a public clinic and/or Planned Parenthood and it is free. My sister directs people all the time to those resources. Additionally, there are many, many non-profits that give out free birth control. Just because the government doesn't do it, doesn't mean it's not happening.

2. Your slate article is form 2012 and 2016. Who was president in 2012? and the 2016 article is full of "coulds" and "mights."

3. Texas does have sex ed and it is not abstinence only. Each school district chooses according to it's taxpayers and what they want to use. My kids have attended three schools districts...all of them had sex ed and none were abstinence only. But then again, are you saying that teaching kids to say no isn't an option?

4. Sorry, you don't get to have the abortion argument both ways. It's incredibly unfair to men. Yes, the woman carries the child which is why she must be more responsible...not less. If she wants to kill it, men are not considered responsible...even though you yourself said they both were... BUT if he doesn't want it and she does...suddenly he's responsible.

5. Why are you so dependent on government to do things? Why are you so against holding individuals responsible for their own choices? Homie.

---

Texas has put most PP clinics out of business.

28.004 of the Texas Educ Code says districts are not free to do as they want. And abstinence must be taught as the preferred method if any sex ed is taught.

---

False. Sorry, I've attended my child's classes. Look up the Scott and White program which is taught in many schools. It takes the approach of all the things that can happen if you choose to have sex. Not exactly abstinence based.

I know you want to believe that schools are telling kids to just say no, but they're aren't. They are saying to think carefully before you say yes.

31 of 74 PP clinics closed....that's not most. And since they do far more abortions that anything else, that's a good thing. Additionally, numerous preventative non-profit clinics have sprung up to fill the void of PP. These clinics actually give out free birth control.

I would recommend that you talk to people and look around before you just spout talking points.

---

False? I gave you the statute, read it. If you choose to teach sex ed then abstinence has to be taught as the preferred method. That's the law, homie, not a talking point.

Only 35 PP clinics are still in Texas, so using your 74 that is still most.

Only six perform abortions.

Abortion services are 3.4% of PPT services. Not even close to "far more abortions than anything else".

---

^^^ The mind of a baby murderer justifying killing

---

^^^ The mind of...

Oh, who am I kidding. You have no mind, comrade. Go get your rubles.

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump does not abort babies!
Vote Red 2020!

---

That's not the issue. Women's Rights is the issue. Vote Blue .

---

Please detail any rights women have lost. Thanks.

---

The Right to their own health decisions

---

How so? Give an example.

---

Are we going to act like bodily autonomy isn't a right?

---

Again, when have women been denied this right to decide what to do with their body? Be specific.

---

If a woman no longer wishes to be pregnant, you would tell her she has no choice.

---

She had a choice. She's already made it.

Using your logic, if someone no longer wanted to be a parent, they could kill their child.

Sorry, I'm just asking women to be more responsible with their choices. Be pro-choice before you act.

---

No. This is bodily autonomy.

Either she has it or she doesn't.

I think every single abortion is a travesty and a tragedy. Every single one. However, banning abortion is robbing women (and only women) of their bodily autonomy. In our society, we allow LIBERTY to make certain choices.

I don't think any woman should ever have an abortion. Ever. But I think it is THEIR choice to make. Not yours. Not mine. Once we get into taking away one's right to bodily autonomy, then we are letting the state invade our very person and force us to do something that, let's just be frank, you have to want to do.

Also, abortion bans don't work. There have always been abortions. There always will be abortions.

If you were REALLY serious about ending abortions, you'd set the conditions needed to keep them from being needed in the first place. Support young mothers to be. Make it easier to adopt. Have comprehensive health education in our schools. Give contraception to absolutely anyone who wants it. Make it free. Allow women to get their tubes tied as easily as men can get vasectomies.

THAT would do much more to end abortion than any ban.

---

"If you were REALLY serious about ending abortions, you'd set the conditions needed to keep them from being needed in the first place. Support young mothers to be. Make it easier to adopt. Have comprehensive health education in our schools. Give contraception to absolutely anyone who wants it. Make it free. Allow women to get their tubes tied as easily as men can get vasectomies."

I support all of this. Not sure what you mean by some of it. Contraception IS free for many, many people and a condom costs 75 cents. Schools already have comprehensive health education. Why can't women get their tubes tied as easy as men?


BUT, if it's her choice to have it or not, then men should not be responsible for helping her financially. After all, it's HER choice. Right?

---

Please try again.

Contraception is NOT free. Not for all (your messiah Trump is attempting to undercut it at every possible turn).
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/court-trump-birth-control.html

Women's rights to get their tubes tied (or access to an IUD) are famously restrictive.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2012/06/choosing-to-be-child-free-tubes-tied-at-26.html
https://fox2now.com/2017/01/23/trumps-administration-is-already-reshaping-birth-control-in-america/

Comprehensive health education is available on average in blue states. In red states.... not so much. And what is available, is being fought tooth-and-nail by the current Republican party and administration.
Texas is one of 9 states with NO sex education mandate:

• Arizona
• Arkansas
• Colorado
• Florida
• Idaho
• Louisiana
• Massachusetts
• Texas
• Virginia

https://www.thoughtco.com/abstinence-only-sex-education-3533767

And it is her choice to have the child or not. Absolutely. But both are responsible. When men are having to carry the child, they can sue for support as well.

If you come and stay the night in my house and light some incense before falling asleep, fine. If you set the house on fire, you're responsible. Yes, I let you stay in my house.

If I am able to put the fire out without damage, great. You're off the hook. But if I can't, you're still on it.

---

1. Contraception IS free. Walk into a public clinic and/or Planned Parenthood and it is free. My sister directs people all the time to those resources. Additionally, there are many, many non-profits that give out free birth control. Just because the government doesn't do it, doesn't mean it's not happening.

2. Your slate article is form 2012 and 2016. Who was president in 2012? and the 2016 article is full of "coulds" and "mights."

3. Texas does have sex ed and it is not abstinence only. Each school district chooses according to it's taxpayers and what they want to use. My kids have attended three schools districts...all of them had sex ed and none were abstinence only. But then again, are you saying that teaching kids to say no isn't an option?

4. Sorry, you don't get to have the abortion argument both ways. It's incredibly unfair to men. Yes, the woman carries the child which is why she must be more responsible...not less. If she wants to kill it, men are not considered responsible...even though you yourself said they both were... BUT if he doesn't want it and she does...suddenly he's responsible.

5. Why are you so dependent on government to do things? Why are you so against holding individuals responsible for their own choices? Homie.

---

I get that you're insanely uninformed. I'm giving you legitimate information. You can take it, or don't.

1. Contraception is NOT "free" everywhere. That's patently false. You bring up Planned Parenthood -which does support that.

And how are Republicans treating Planned Parenthood, again? You're making my point for me.

2. It doesn't change the facts on the ground. Read state statutes (and much of this is done at the state level). I'm sorry if you didn't know how hard it is for a woman to get her tubes tied. I got my vasectomy and all it cost me was two dr's visits and a bag of frozen peas. Ask your wife about how easy it is. Many states won't let you get one if you're not married, or don't already have children without many hoops to jump through.

I'm sincerely not making this up. I personally know doctors who've explained this to me.

3. You're trying to shift the statement. Comprehensive sex Ed is NOT required in Texas. Can you get it? Maybe. But it isn't required. The problem is that the people who need it most don't know they need it. THATS the problem.

4. Abortion is unfair... to MEN... holy ***** Right. Should I start listing examples of men who've made women they've knocked up get abortions?

That's just... a really bad take. Maybe we should take a poll of guys who knocked up women and were excited about it.

Jesus. Just a horrible take.

5. I'm the one arguing to keep government OUT OF WOMEN's BODIES. You're the one arguing for it.

Are you feeling okay?

quash said:

---

You phrased it in terms of libertarians deserting Republican candidates. Libertarians vote for Libertarians, for independents, and they choose not to vote in some races. Some do vote for Republicans (Amash, Massie eg.) and some even vote for Democrats (Dan Wyden eg.)

Some Republicans pissed the hell out of a lot of libertarian voters who relied on 60+ votes to repeal Obamacare, plus campaign promises to do so. And then we got Trumpcare. Lots of pissed off libertarians over that.

LP Texas conventions are mostly male. My local groups (three different cities) usually have female chairs. Go figure.

---

Without a government-funded system that will reliably compensate hospitals for care they deliver, we will not have a viable healthcare system.

Private insurance will not pay enough, or for enough people, to keep hospitals functioning because most people cannot afford to pay the true cost of current medical care. We're already seeing that happen in rural areas in my state, where hospitals are shutting down.

I was angry about Obamacare because it used insurance rather than being an expanded version of Medicare or medicaid.

But, without it, one daughter would not have had insurance during a 6-month period of unemployment while she found and started a new job, and the other daughter would have been uninsured for than a year while she worked for an employer than didn't provide medical insurance, because, although she worked there for more than a year, she was categorized as a "seasonal employee" (she led wilderness trips for teenagers and an outdoor education program provided at a YMCA camp in Minnesota for elementary and junior high kids all over the state) and thus not eligible for employee coverage.

So I am grateful Obamacare was there as a safety net even though she had to fly home for medical care.

A national health care system would, of course, ensure that we all had access to healthcare wherever we went, and that health care was available to people in rural areas.

IMO, you don't have much liberty if you don't have access to consistent healthcare throughout your life. The way we treat diabetics in this country is unconscionable.

Here's a WSJ poll on several issues that shows that most people are not wildly enthused about being left to depend totally on the free market for healthcare (and that there's pretty solid support for other policies I'd consider moderate that most Democrats running against Trump support):

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-voters-support-expanding-medicare-but-not-eliminating-private-health-insurance-11569157204

Osodecentx said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

"As far as free healthcare for immigrants, where is that happening? Again, not in my city. Our painter is a legal Mexican immigrant with a green card, and I had to take him to the dentist and pay for his care when one of his teeth died."

The old, if I don't see it, I don't believe it argument.

My sister is a nurse. It happens...ALOT in Texas

---

That's not healthcare, homie. That's emergency room/urgent care, etc.

Until we realize that actually having good, affordable healthcare SAVES money, we will never make the moves needed to bring down costs for everyone.

---

All Democrats At Main Debate Agree Illegal Immigrants Should Get Health Care Coverage

MSNBC Democratic presidential primary debate co-moderator Savannah Guthrie asked the candidates to raise their hand if their healthcare plan would cover undocumented immigrants. President Donald Trump reacted on Twitter, calling it "the end of that race."

"This is a show of hands question and hold them up so people can see. Raise your hand if your government plan would provide coverage for undocumented immigrants," Guthrie said to the candidates Thursday night.

Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, Kamala Harris, Andrew Yang, Pete Buttigieg, Kirsten Gillibrand, Michael Bennet, Marianne Williamson, John Hickenlooper, and Eric Swalwell all raised their hand.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/27/all_dem_candidates_raise_hand_when_asked_if_illegal_immigrants_should_get_health_care_coverage_at_debate.html

---

Please read my post again.

By the way, the President just came out and asked two foreign countries to help him win an election. He's just taking the illegal stuff he did behind doors (and said he didn't do) and put it in the open. That's what he does. He does something horrible and then normalizes it when he gets caught.

He's literally trying to make it an unfair election.

Y'all still cool with this?

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump does not abort babies!
Vote Red 2020!

---

That's not the issue. Women's Rights is the issue. Vote Blue .

---

Please detail any rights women have lost. Thanks.

---

The Right to their own health decisions

---

How so? Give an example.

---

Are we going to act like bodily autonomy isn't a right?

---

Again, when have women been denied this right to decide what to do with their body? Be specific.

---

If a woman no longer wishes to be pregnant, you would tell her she has no choice.

---

She had a choice. She's already made it.

Using your logic, if someone no longer wanted to be a parent, they could kill their child.

Sorry, I'm just asking women to be more responsible with their choices. Be pro-choice before you act.

---

No. This is bodily autonomy.

Either she has it or she doesn't.

I think every single abortion is a travesty and a tragedy. Every single one. However, banning abortion is robbing women (and only women) of their bodily autonomy. In our society, we allow LIBERTY to make certain choices.

I don't think any woman should ever have an abortion. Ever. But I think it is THEIR choice to make. Not yours. Not mine. Once we get into taking away one's right to bodily autonomy, then we are letting the state invade our very person and force us to do something that, let's just be frank, you have to want to do.

Also, abortion bans don't work. There have always been abortions. There always will be abortions.

If you were REALLY serious about ending abortions, you'd set the conditions needed to keep them from being needed in the first place. Support young mothers to be. Make it easier to adopt. Have comprehensive health education in our schools. Give contraception to absolutely anyone who wants it. Make it free. Allow women to get their tubes tied as easily as men can get vasectomies.

THAT would do much more to end abortion than any ban.

---

"If you were REALLY serious about ending abortions, you'd set the conditions needed to keep them from being needed in the first place. Support young mothers to be. Make it easier to adopt. Have comprehensive health education in our schools. Give contraception to absolutely anyone who wants it. Make it free. Allow women to get their tubes tied as easily as men can get vasectomies."

I support all of this. Not sure what you mean by some of it. Contraception IS free for many, many people and a condom costs 75 cents. Schools already have comprehensive health education. Why can't women get their tubes tied as easy as men?


BUT, if it's her choice to have it or not, then men should not be responsible for helping her financially. After all, it's HER choice. Right?

---

Please try again.

Contraception is NOT free. Not for all (your messiah Trump is attempting to undercut it at every possible turn).
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/court-trump-birth-control.html

Women's rights to get their tubes tied (or access to an IUD) are famously restrictive.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2012/06/choosing-to-be-child-free-tubes-tied-at-26.html
https://fox2now.com/2017/01/23/trumps-administration-is-already-reshaping-birth-control-in-america/

Comprehensive health education is available on average in blue states. In red states.... not so much. And what is available, is being fought tooth-and-nail by the current Republican party and administration.
Texas is one of 9 states with NO sex education mandate:

• Arizona
• Arkansas
• Colorado
• Florida
• Idaho
• Louisiana
• Massachusetts
• Texas
• Virginia

https://www.thoughtco.com/abstinence-only-sex-education-3533767

And it is her choice to have the child or not. Absolutely. But both are responsible. When men are having to carry the child, they can sue for support as well.

If you come and stay the night in my house and light some incense before falling asleep, fine. If you set the house on fire, you're responsible. Yes, I let you stay in my house.

If I am able to put the fire out without damage, great. You're off the hook. But if I can't, you're still on it.

---

1. Contraception IS free. Walk into a public clinic and/or Planned Parenthood and it is free. My sister directs people all the time to those resources. Additionally, there are many, many non-profits that give out free birth control. Just because the government doesn't do it, doesn't mean it's not happening.

2. Your slate article is form 2012 and 2016. Who was president in 2012? and the 2016 article is full of "coulds" and "mights."

3. Texas does have sex ed and it is not abstinence only. Each school district chooses according to it's taxpayers and what they want to use. My kids have attended three schools districts...all of them had sex ed and none were abstinence only. But then again, are you saying that teaching kids to say no isn't an option?

4. Sorry, you don't get to have the abortion argument both ways. It's incredibly unfair to men. Yes, the woman carries the child which is why she must be more responsible...not less. If she wants to kill it, men are not considered responsible...even though you yourself said they both were... BUT if he doesn't want it and she does...suddenly he's responsible.

5. Why are you so dependent on government to do things? Why are you so against holding individuals responsible for their own choices? Homie.

---

I get that you're insanely uninformed. I'm giving you legitimate information. You can take it, or don't.

1. Contraception is NOT "free" everywhere. That's patently false. You bring up Planned Parenthood -which does support that.

And how are Republicans treating Planned Parenthood, again? You're making my point for me.

2. It doesn't change the facts on the ground. Read state statutes (and much of this is done at the state level). I'm sorry if you didn't know how hard it is for a woman to get her tubes tied. I got my vasectomy and all it cost me was two dr's visits and a bag of frozen peas. Ask your wife about how easy it is. Many states won't let you get one if you're not married, or don't already have children without many hoops to jump through.

I'm sincerely not making this up. I personally know doctors who've explained this to me.

3. You're trying to shift the statement. Comprehensive sex Ed is NOT required in Texas. Can you get it? Maybe. But it isn't required. The problem is that the people who need it most don't know they need it. THATS the problem.

4. Abortion is unfair... to MEN... holy ***** Right. Should I start listing examples of men who've made women they've knocked up get abortions?

That's just... a really bad take. Maybe we should take a poll of guys who knocked up women and were excited about it.

Jesus. Just a horrible take.

5. I'm the one arguing to keep government OUT OF WOMEN's BODIES. You're the one arguing for it.

Are you feeling okay?

---

1. It is very affordable. Less than three cost of the beer.
2. So what if it isn't 100 percent free? Food isn't free, either.

D. C. Bear said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

xiledinok said:

---

Trump does not abort babies!
Vote Red 2020!

---

That's not the issue. Women's Rights is the issue. Vote Blue .

---

Please detail any rights women have lost. Thanks.

---

The Right to their own health decisions

---

How so? Give an example.

---

Are we going to act like bodily autonomy isn't a right?

---

Again, when have women been denied this right to decide what to do with their body? Be specific.

---

If a woman no longer wishes to be pregnant, you would tell her she has no choice.

---

She had a choice. She's already made it.

Using your logic, if someone no longer wanted to be a parent, they could kill their child.

Sorry, I'm just asking women to be more responsible with their choices. Be pro-choice before you act.

---

No. This is bodily autonomy.

Either she has it or she doesn't.

I think every single abortion is a travesty and a tragedy. Every single one. However, banning abortion is robbing women (and only women) of their bodily autonomy. In our society, we allow LIBERTY to make certain choices.

I don't think any woman should ever have an abortion. Ever. But I think it is THEIR choice to make. Not yours. Not mine. Once we get into taking away one's right to bodily autonomy, then we are letting the state invade our very person and force us to do something that, let's just be frank, you have to want to do.

Also, abortion bans don't work. There have always been abortions. There always will be abortions.

If you were REALLY serious about ending abortions, you'd set the conditions needed to keep them from being needed in the first place. Support young mothers to be. Make it easier to adopt. Have comprehensive health education in our schools. Give contraception to absolutely anyone who wants it. Make it free. Allow women to get their tubes tied as easily as men can get vasectomies.

THAT would do much more to end abortion than any ban.

---

"If you were REALLY serious about ending abortions, you'd set the conditions needed to keep them from being needed in the first place. Support young mothers to be. Make it easier to adopt. Have comprehensive health education in our schools. Give contraception to absolutely anyone who wants it. Make it free. Allow women to get their tubes tied as easily as men can get vasectomies."

I support all of this. Not sure what you mean by some of it. Contraception IS free for many, many people and a condom costs 75 cents. Schools already have comprehensive health education. Why can't women get their tubes tied as easy as men?


BUT, if it's her choice to have it or not, then men should not be responsible for helping her financially. After all, it's HER choice. Right?

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Please try again.

Contraception is NOT free. Not for all (your messiah Trump is attempting to undercut it at every possible turn).
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/court-trump-birth-control.html

Women's rights to get their tubes tied (or access to an IUD) are famously restrictive.
https://slate.com/human-interest/2012/06/choosing-to-be-child-free-tubes-tied-at-26.html
https://fox2now.com/2017/01/23/trumps-administration-is-already-reshaping-birth-control-in-america/

Comprehensive health education is available on average in blue states. In red states.... not so much. And what is available, is being fought tooth-and-nail by the current Republican party and administration.
Texas is one of 9 states with NO sex education mandate:

• Arizona
• Arkansas
• Colorado
• Florida
• Idaho
• Louisiana
• Massachusetts
• Texas
• Virginia

https://www.thoughtco.com/abstinence-only-sex-education-3533767

And it is her choice to have the child or not. Absolutely. But both are responsible. When men are having to carry the child, they can sue for support as well.

If you come and stay the night in my house and light some incense before falling asleep, fine. If you set the house on fire, you're responsible. Yes, I let you stay in my house.

If I am able to put the fire out without damage, great. You're off the hook. But if I can't, you're still on it.

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1. Contraception IS free. Walk into a public clinic and/or Planned Parenthood and it is free. My sister directs people all the time to those resources. Additionally, there are many, many non-profits that give out free birth control. Just because the government doesn't do it, doesn't mean it's not happening.

2. Your slate article is form 2012 and 2016. Who was president in 2012? and the 2016 article is full of "coulds" and "mights."

3. Texas does have sex ed and it is not abstinence only. Each school district chooses according to it's taxpayers and what they want to use. My kids have attended three schools districts...all of them had sex ed and none were abstinence only. But then again, are you saying that teaching kids to say no isn't an option?

4. Sorry, you don't get to have the abortion argument both ways. It's incredibly unfair to men. Yes, the woman carries the child which is why she must be more responsible...not less. If she wants to kill it, men are not considered responsible...even though you yourself said they both were... BUT if he doesn't want it and she does...suddenly he's responsible.

5. Why are you so dependent on government to do things? Why are you so against holding individuals responsible for their own choices? Homie.

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I get that you're insanely uninformed. I'm giving you legitimate information. You can take it, or don't.

1. Contraception is NOT "free" everywhere. That's patently false. You bring up Planned Parenthood -which does support that.

And how are Republicans treating Planned Parenthood, again? You're making my point for me.

2. It doesn't change the facts on the ground. Read state statutes (and much of this is done at the state level). I'm sorry if you didn't know how hard it is for a woman to get her tubes tied. I got my vasectomy and all it cost me was two dr's visits and a bag of frozen peas. Ask your wife about how easy it is. Many states won't let you get one if you're not married, or don't already have children without many hoops to jump through.

I'm sincerely not making this up. I personally know doctors who've explained this to me.

3. You're trying to shift the statement. Comprehensive sex Ed is NOT required in Texas. Can you get it? Maybe. But it isn't required. The problem is that the people who need it most don't know they need it. THATS the problem.

4. Abortion is unfair... to MEN... holy ***** Right. Should I start listing examples of men who've made women they've knocked up get abortions?

That's just... a really bad take. Maybe we should take a poll of guys who knocked up women and were excited about it.

Jesus. Just a horrible take.

5. I'm the one arguing to keep government OUT OF WOMEN's BODIES. You're the one arguing for it.

Are you feeling okay?

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1. It is very affordable. Less than three cost of the beer.
2. So what if it isn't 100 percent free? Food isn't free, either.

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Listen, if you're not going to pay attention, then stay out of it, Francis.

He said it was free everywhere. I said it wasn't.

It's one of the many ways he's wrong.

BrooksBearLives said:

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By the way, the President just came out and asked two foreign countries to help him win an election. He's just taking the illegal stuff he did behind doors (and said he didn't do) and put it in the open. That's what he does. He does something horrible and then normalizes it when he gets caught.

He's literally trying to make it an unfair election.

Y'all still cool with this?

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"Y'all still cool with this?"

Yes. See how easy that was?

BrooksBearLives said:

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By the way, the President just came out and asked two foreign countries to help him win an election. He's just taking the illegal stuff he did behind doors (and said he didn't do) and put it in the open. That's what he does. He does something horrible and then normalizes it when he gets caught.

He's literally trying to make it an unfair election.

Y'all still cool with this?

---

Not only that, but the Wall Street JOurnal has an article detailing how he fired our ambassador to Ukraine for refusing to do his dirty work.

She will testify in Trump's impeachment investigation.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-ordered-ukraine-ambassador-removed-after-complaints-from-giuliani-others-11570137147