quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

So. We really ****ed o we the Kurds, today.

How we feeling about that?

---

Just fine.

---

Seriously?

How do we build future alliances when we break treaties, sell out allies over a phone call, etc.?

This was a terrible, horrible, not very good thing. It was bad, m'kay?

If I were anybody but Putin I would never trust Trump.

---

Speaking of alliances, how does a NATO ally like Turkey trust us when we're supporting Kurdish extremists carrying out terrorist attacks within their borders? Such an arrangement is necessarily temporary. These Kurdish groups are not good people. We have no common interests with them other than defeating ISIS. They were well aware of the possibility that we'd withdraw, and they've prepared for it.

---

You take it up with NATO. Trump did not.

Unilateral action like this damages our ability to act for peace in the future.

---

What's there to take up with NATO? We've always agreed that any mission in the Middle East should have two priorities: kill terrorists and GTFO.

---

Turkey is a NATO partner, not just a ME country.

---

Yes, it gets real complicated. One of the reasons why I would prefer someone like George H. W. Bush over what we have.

Jinx 2 said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

I have literally served my entire life. I am an Eagle Scout. I took the EMT course as an 18 year-old because the volunteer ambulance service in my hometown wasn't going to be able to keep its doors open and offering services. I put off leaving for college for a year in part because of that.

I was a state scholar and national merit finalist. I won multiple scholarships for my efforts to rebuild a baseball field in my hometown so that our tee-ball program could be re-started (it's a poor part of the state so I had to raise the money AND organize the work myself). That work helped me get my full-ride to Baylor.

While there, I was a community leader even though I had all my financial need met. Honestly, I did it because I missed my family and being a big brother. From there, I was given an assistantship that would pay for my Master's program. I graduated and turned down offers from multiple schools to stay in Texas and work for a campus that I felt I could help. I thought I'd be there for 3 years, it's been 13 (I've had 3 promotions/positions created for me in that time).

I work for students and parents who need help accessing all the benefits that college can provide. I literally help students graduate 24/7. Part of that is working in conduct and Title IX. In that, I have advocated for both complainants and respondents to try and help them through some of the worst times of their lives.

My father, brother, and 6 cousins have all served in the Military. My brother is a West Point grad. That was the plan for me until I lost my kidney and wasn't eligible for military service (cancer sucks).

I have served roles in my church's vestry, altar guild and serve as on the lector rotation. We're in church every Sunday. I've served with Big Brother/Big Sister, continue to help out with Boy Scouts, and have served as chair for the largest Safe Trick-or-Treat in the county, serving over 1,000 kids and families every year, free of charge.

And on top of that, I am a PhD student trying desperately to be a good father, christian, husband, son, brother, boss, and friend while attending classes two nights a week with a 2 hour commute. I don't sleep a lot.

I don't know how any of this makes me a better patriot or anything. I just know how much I've been given by this country. I won the lottery just by being born here. I feel we get the government we deserve. I just want us to deserve better.

Hopefully I've passed your bull**** test. If I haven't, I guess you'll have to learn to live with it.

---

Seriously, these guys are supporting a corrupt businessman who, before his election, used lawyers to get out of keeping his contractual commitments, who started a for-profit college that delivered only student debt, who is a serial adulterer and sexual harasser, and can't keep his big mouth shut now matter how high the stakes, because it's ALWAYS about him, 24/7, and everything else (except for his family, whom he views as an extention of himself) is a distant second, who expects the people who works for him to commit crimes on his behalf AND take the rap for it, and who is loyal to no one but immediate family but expects absolute loyalty from all who work for him, up to and including committing felonies.

Trump is a very, very bad president because he's a very, very bad man. And these guys won't acknowledge there's a problem even when he yanks us out of Syria like he's jerking the strings of a defective marionette.

So you don't need to defend youself to them. They obviously don't care how bad he is or how good you are. They have a vision for America that's sharply different from yours -- one where a few people getting theirs is a lot more important than our long-term survival as a vibrant, thriving democracy and the planet's survival as a pleasant habitat.

They're fine with it being all about Trump because they think he's all about them. They'll continue to think that until he does what he does and turns on them in some way--some erratic tarriff that cuts their business off at the knees, more "perfect" phone calls where he uses the power of the U.S. government to make himself or his kids richer while yelping like a spoiled puppy about Hunter Biden, and a few more nuke tests from his friend Kim.

Obi Wan Kenobi has left the building. Our only hope is that enough people get disgusted enough to vote him and his enblers out of office. Because, unless something changes, he's going to be able to create enough dust and noise to last til the election. And lots of these numbnuts will think that's a good outcome.

---

"They obviously don't care how bad he is or how good you are."

Just when I think you finally get it...

"They're fine with it being all about Trump because they think he's all about them."

...you follow up with this. Let me try one more time (although feeling pointless since many of us have been over this many times): whatever your beliefs are about Trump, I believe your side is infinitely worse and far more dangerous. We are not blind to Trump's flaws. It is you are blind to your own latent destructive fascism.

BrooksBearLives said:

---

I have literally served my entire life. I am an Eagle Scout. I took the EMT course as an 18 year-old because the volunteer ambulance service in my hometown wasn't going to be able to keep its doors open and offering services. I put off leaving for college for a year in part because of that.

I was a state scholar and national merit finalist. I won multiple scholarships for my efforts to rebuild a baseball field in my hometown so that our tee-ball program could be re-started (it's a poor part of the state so I had to raise the money AND organize the work myself). That work helped me get my full-ride to Baylor.

While there, I was a community leader even though I had all my financial need met. Honestly, I did it because I missed my family and being a big brother. From there, I was given an assistantship that would pay for my Master's program. I graduated and turned down offers from multiple schools to stay in Texas and work for a campus that I felt I could help. I thought I'd be there for 3 years, it's been 13 (I've had 3 promotions/positions created for me in that time).

I work for students and parents who need help accessing all the benefits that college can provide. I literally help students graduate 24/7. Part of that is working in conduct and Title IX. In that, I have advocated for both complainants and respondents to try and help them through some of the worst times of their lives.

My father, brother, and 6 cousins have all served in the Military. My brother is a West Point grad. That was the plan for me until I lost my kidney and wasn't eligible for military service (cancer sucks).

I have served roles in my church's vestry, altar guild and serve as on the lector rotation. We're in church every Sunday. I've served with Big Brother/Big Sister, continue to help out with Boy Scouts, and have served as chair for the largest Safe Trick-or-Treat in the county, serving over 1,000 kids and families every year, free of charge.

And on top of that, I am a PhD student trying desperately to be a good father, christian, husband, son, brother, boss, and friend while attending classes two nights a week with a 2 hour commute. I don't sleep a lot.

I don't know how any of this makes me a better patriot or anything. I just know how much I've been given by this country. I won the lottery just by being born here. I feel we get the government we deserve. I just want us to deserve better.

Hopefully I've passed your bull**** test. If I haven't, I guess you'll have to learn to live with it.

---

I get it. You're a bright guy who earns his keep off of the hard-earned wages of others funneled into your institution. Sweet deal. I earned my keep by the sweat of my brow and by creating something almost from nothing while being forced to compete in a tough marketplace that determines winners and losers. All the time paying ever increasing taxes and fees to all sorts of entities for the "privilege" of competing while receiving virtually nothing in return and with no representation. Makers and takers, amigo.

HuMcK said:

---

"It is you are blind to your own latent destructive fascism."

The irony of this statement, as Trump argues that he is not subject to any lawful oversight whatsoever, is thick enough to cut with a knife.

---

Plenty of irony to go around. Trump's platform would still result in a happy outcome if implemented, while the left will lead to our destruction. Isn't difficult to see that the left's total devotion to Trump's destruction has resulted in claims by the executive with which you disagree. Not that complicated.

D. C. Bear said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

So. We really ****ed o we the Kurds, today.

How we feeling about that?

---

Just fine.

---

Seriously?

How do we build future alliances when we break treaties, sell out allies over a phone call, etc.?

This was a terrible, horrible, not very good thing. It was bad, m'kay?

If I were anybody but Putin I would never trust Trump.

---

Speaking of alliances, how does a NATO ally like Turkey trust us when we're supporting Kurdish extremists carrying out terrorist attacks within their borders? Such an arrangement is necessarily temporary. These Kurdish groups are not good people. We have no common interests with them other than defeating ISIS. They were well aware of the possibility that we'd withdraw, and they've prepared for it.

---

You take it up with NATO. Trump did not.

Unilateral action like this damages our ability to act for peace in the future.

---

What's there to take up with NATO? We've always agreed that any mission in the Middle East should have two priorities: kill terrorists and GTFO.

---

Turkey is a NATO partner, not just a ME country.

---

Yes, it gets real complicated. One of the reasons why I would prefer someone like George H. W. Bush over what we have.

---

Biggest coalition ever

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

So. We really ****ed o we the Kurds, today.

How we feeling about that?

---

Just fine.

---

Seriously?

How do we build future alliances when we break treaties, sell out allies over a phone call, etc.?

This was a terrible, horrible, not very good thing. It was bad, m'kay?

If I were anybody but Putin I would never trust Trump.

---

Speaking of alliances, how does a NATO ally like Turkey trust us when we're supporting Kurdish extremists carrying out terrorist attacks within their borders? Such an arrangement is necessarily temporary. These Kurdish groups are not good people. We have no common interests with them other than defeating ISIS. They were well aware of the possibility that we'd withdraw, and they've prepared for it.

---

You take it up with NATO. Trump did not.

Unilateral action like this damages our ability to act for peace in the future.

---

What's there to take up with NATO? We've always agreed that any mission in the Middle East should have two priorities: kill terrorists and GTFO.

---

Turkey is a NATO partner, not just a ME country.

---

Not sure what you're getting at.

HuMcK said:

---

"It is you are blind to your own latent destructive fascism."

The irony of this statement, as Trump argues that he is not subject to any lawful oversight whatsoever, is thick enough to cut with a knife.

---

No one's arguing such a thing.

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"It is you are blind to your own latent destructive fascism."

The irony of this statement, as Trump argues that he is not subject to any lawful oversight whatsoever, is thick enough to cut with a knife.

---

No one's arguing such a thing.

---

Yeah. That's literally what he's arguing.

---

How so?

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"It is you are blind to your own latent destructive fascism."

The irony of this statement, as Trump argues that he is not subject to any lawful oversight whatsoever, is thick enough to cut with a knife.

---

No one's arguing such a thing.

---

Yeah. That's literally what he's arguing.

---

How so?

---

By ignoring legal subpoenas -the prerogative of congress- he is literally saying he's not subject to oversight.

Canada2017 said:

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curtpenn said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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curtpenn said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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curtpenn said:

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D. C. Bear said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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D. C. Bear said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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Canada2017 said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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Canada2017 said:

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chuckle

All the Dems have to do is nominate a rational MODERATE to regain the White House.

Don't need to nominate a conservative, dont need to promise to protect the 2nd amendment, our international borders or even our babies .

Just nominate a reasonable, rational MODERATE and the Dems will have it all.


But they can not....will not...do it.

Leftist freaks got the bit in their teeth ...and are determined to run with it.

And THAT is the ultimate lulz.

---

That's because anything left of "sell us all out for Russian interest" gets dismissed as "communist" by people like you.

---

chuckle

Besides remaining in the cozy confines of academia into your early 30's ....( a glorious accomplishment to be sure ) , which of your career experiences qualify you to judge and label people 'like me' ?

---

Do you have the ability to respond without insulting first?

Say what you want about me, but at least I can do that.

1. You mischaracterize me constantly. You obviously don't know what you're talking about.

And 2. What I do for a living, how old I am, or what I believe about other topics has NO bearing on how the President is abusing his power.

Oh. Now there's a second whistleblower who was in the room for the Ukraine calls.

There's another whistleblower from the IRS as well.

None of your personal insults of me is going to make this go away.

Face it, you sold out for a really bad person. And it's no me you should be angry at.

---

He may, but probably not to you. You have made insulting others your stock-in-trade so I am unsure why you seem unhappy when they do the same.

---

Yeah. Thats not true.

But I guess you're not even going to try to respond to the topic at hand?

I mean, I get why you wouldn't.

You're okay with the President using his office for personal enrichment and political gain? You're cool with that?

---

Yeah, you do. It is an accurate observation that you habitually throw around insults. It's what you do and you are apparently the only one who doesn't recognize it.

I already did respond to "the topic at hand" sometime last week.

I'm not a fan of Trump. Never have liked him, even when he wasn't a politician. Didn't vote for him before, won't vote for him should he be on the ballot again. However, should he be removed from office via impeachment or the ballot box and replaced by a Democrat or another Republican, it, sadly, will not represent the dawning of good government. The level of corruption in government is unlikely to change in any real way. Neither side is interested in corruption unless it gives them political advantage.

---

It is not true that I ONLY respond with insults. I give them out. But I'm not on here calling people who disagree with me "my enemy." I have my limits.

And the biggest difference is I feel shame when I lose my temper.

But I've gotten nearly nothing but insults to my repeated attempts to engage in good faith debate. Deal with it or don't. I've long since gone past taking your opinion all that seriously. I do think you're pretty smart, so I have hope you'll engage.

And also, this 'nothing will change' is nihilism. Nothing will change until we make it change. The next President is going to have to pass a crap-ton of laws to protect what used to be norms this President has completely torn apart.

Emoluments would be a great start.

---

I didn't say you "only" insult people. I said you do it a lot. You do. If you feel bad when you lose your temper and insult people, then don't do it. It isn't that hard. Don't hit submit.

I have engaged. Many pages ago. Your thread title is you wondering when "Republicans" will figure out that they should think like you do about Trumpthat he isn't good at this. Setting aside the fact that a lot of Republicans really don't like Trump on a variety of levels, and already don't think he's "good at this," I have explained why I think Trump's supporters don't care about the things you care about. You may not like my explanation, but don't pretend that did not "engage" on the topic at hand. You don't take my opinion seriously because it is not your opinion. If I agreed with your opinion, you would take it seriously. I would also note that I am not calling anyone "my enemy."

Whether "nothing will change" is nihilism or realism, it is not nihilism on the part of Trump's supporters to support him. They consider the alternatives to be an existential threat and believe that it matters a lot whether that threat comes to pass.

Your "repeated attempts to engage in good faith debate" come on the heels of your habitual tendency to hurl insults and curses at those with whom you disagree. What exactly are you expecting to happen? Do you think they are going to rise up and call you blessed?

---

Listen, I'm not your enemy.

And it has been literally days -if not weeks- since I insulted anyone on this thread. Feel free to go check.

In the meantime, you okay with this? Our president is straight ****ing the Kurds right now -all while claiming "great and unmatched wisdom." I want to hear Curt say how any Democrat could be worse than this. This dude wanted to nuke hurricanes. He's lost it and is completely going off the edge.

---

I didn't say you are my enemy. Why are you saying that?

What does it matter if "it has been literally days -if not weeks- since I insulted anyone on this thread?" You established your reputation long before this thread was made.

---

Oh. So reputation is all that matters? Good to know.

---

All that matters? Didn't say that. You seem to think it doesn't matter at all. I asked why you expect that you won't be getting a lot of insults when you have made it part of your persona on here to hurl insults and curses at others. You've said that you "feel shame" when you lose your temper, so you clearly have some level of awareness and consider it to be a problem. You also say that you are engaging in "good faith" debate, but you seem to be saying that I have said you are my enemy. I haven't, and it doesn't appear to be "good faith debate" for you to make that claim.

---

Hats off to DC Bear for being the voice of reason here and continuing to discuss and very clearly state what others of us less reasonable sorts can only rage against. I was once probably closer to his position but have admittedly given myself over to a more combative attitude. I embrace that you, BBL, and your kind are actually "my enemy" and lament that it has come to this. And yet, lamentations and regrets aside, here we are. As DC points out, those who think like me don't require or expect your agreement, but it shouldn't be that difficult to understand. The ironic thing is, the more either extreme pushes their respective agenda, the greater countervailing force is created in opposition. It works both ways. My solution is to reduce the scope of government reach so as to minimize opportunities for conflict to arise. How about governments limiting themselves primarily to things we can agree upon? Vive ut vivas.

---

Yeah. No difference of opinion makes you my enemy. You're my brother. You need help, I will give what I have to give.

All this crap we're dealing with down here on earth is menial and base. That's why I care about morality and caring for my fellow man. That's what matters. Tax cuts for people who already have too much?

Nah. Don't care about that.

---

Please understand we are not "brothers" in any meaningful way, and while it may be true that I need help in the sense that I'm a sinner in need of grace, I'm certain there's nothing you can do for me in that regard. I invite you to drop all of your pearl clutching virtue signaling. Perhaps you could consider growing a pair and growing up while you're at it? Focus on being the best you can be, and on giving all of the time, talent, and resources you like to the betterment of others, but leave using the coercive power of governments out of it. You cool with that?

---

You got some hatred in your heart man. You need to let it go.

Our country deserves better.

---

Don't worry, bro, I don't have hatred in my heart for you. My feelings about you are similar to those I experience stepping in pile of dog sh_t; very annoying, but something one just scrapes offs and gets on with life.

I may not be the brightest color in the box, but my GMAT scores were good enough to warrant a full scholarship and graduate assistantship to Baylor's MBA program. Upon completion, I knocked around for about 10 years getting dirty and changing jobs. Ultimately started my own business - just me working out of my house. Proud to say 31 years later that business has been modestly successful and now employs around 40 people. If I add in family members, I suspect it has benefited hundreds of people over the years. With no help from anyone other than my wonderful wife, we managed to put 2 kids through some of the finest private schools in Dallas. Our oldest graduated from Temple with honors while maintaining a highly rigorous schedule as a D1 rower. Our youngest graduated from SMU a couple of years ago. My wife was able to interrupt her professional career for about 10 years in order to be a full time mom (which was her choice). I won't bore you with the details, but we've been very active in our school and church communities over the decades as well. I feel pretty good about what we've accomplished for the betterment of our community and country. What have you done?

---

Very impressive accomplishments fella.

You have every right to be proud.

---

Even the Gentiles love each other. It's loving your enemies that's the key (according to JC)

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"It is you are blind to your own latent destructive fascism."

The irony of this statement, as Trump argues that he is not subject to any lawful oversight whatsoever, is thick enough to cut with a knife.

---

No one's arguing such a thing.

---

Yeah. That's literally what he's arguing.

---

How so?

---

By ignoring legal subpoenas -the prerogative of congress- he is literally saying he's not subject to oversight.

---

He hasn't done that.

BrooksBearLives said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

I have literally served my entire life. I am an Eagle Scout. I took the EMT course as an 18 year-old because the volunteer ambulance service in my hometown wasn't going to be able to keep its doors open and offering services. I put off leaving for college for a year in part because of that.

I was a state scholar and national merit finalist. I won multiple scholarships for my efforts to rebuild a baseball field in my hometown so that our tee-ball program could be re-started (it's a poor part of the state so I had to raise the money AND organize the work myself). That work helped me get my full-ride to Baylor.

While there, I was a community leader even though I had all my financial need met. Honestly, I did it because I missed my family and being a big brother. From there, I was given an assistantship that would pay for my Master's program. I graduated and turned down offers from multiple schools to stay in Texas and work for a campus that I felt I could help. I thought I'd be there for 3 years, it's been 13 (I've had 3 promotions/positions created for me in that time).

I work for students and parents who need help accessing all the benefits that college can provide. I literally help students graduate 24/7. Part of that is working in conduct and Title IX. In that, I have advocated for both complainants and respondents to try and help them through some of the worst times of their lives.

My father, brother, and 6 cousins have all served in the Military. My brother is a West Point grad. That was the plan for me until I lost my kidney and wasn't eligible for military service (cancer sucks).

I have served roles in my church's vestry, altar guild and serve as on the lector rotation. We're in church every Sunday. I've served with Big Brother/Big Sister, continue to help out with Boy Scouts, and have served as chair for the largest Safe Trick-or-Treat in the county, serving over 1,000 kids and families every year, free of charge.

And on top of that, I am a PhD student trying desperately to be a good father, christian, husband, son, brother, boss, and friend while attending classes two nights a week with a 2 hour commute. I don't sleep a lot.

I don't know how any of this makes me a better patriot or anything. I just know how much I've been given by this country. I won the lottery just by being born here. I feel we get the government we deserve. I just want us to deserve better.

Hopefully I've passed your bull**** test. If I haven't, I guess you'll have to learn to live with it.

---

I get it. You're a bright guy who earns his keep off of the hard-earned wages of others funneled into your institution. Sweet deal. I earned my keep by the sweat of my brow and by creating something almost from nothing while being forced to compete in a tough marketplace that determines winners and losers. All the time paying ever increasing taxes and fees to all sorts of entities for the "privilege" of competing while receiving virtually nothing in return and with no representation. Makers and takers, amigo.

---

Wow. What a thing to say about someone. I truly pity you.

Blessed are the poor in spirit? Only if they're makers, baby!

---

Lolz. Thanks for the chuckle, buttercup.

"at what point do Republicans realize Trump is bad at this?"
He's an idiot with no foreign or domestic policy idea or vision. Bluster is all he's got (and lying)

Waco1947 said:

---

"at what point do Republicans realize Trump is bad at this?"
He's an idiot with no foreign or domestic policy idea or vision. Bluster is all he's got (and lying)

---

You've gotta be getting paid to keep posting the same ole stupid crap 24/7

Same stuff

Waco1947 said:

---

"at what point do Republicans realize Trump is bad at this?"
He's an idiot with no foreign or domestic policy idea or vision. Bluster is all he's got (and lying)

---

Not feeling that "love your enemies" stuff you just posted. Suggested for your review: Matthew 7. Key concept hint: hypocrisy. Enjoy.

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"It is you are blind to your own latent destructive fascism."

The irony of this statement, as Trump argues that he is not subject to any lawful oversight whatsoever, is thick enough to cut with a knife.

---

No one's arguing such a thing.

---

Yeah. That's literally what he's arguing.

---

How so?

---

By ignoring legal subpoenas -the prerogative of congress- he is literally saying he's not subject to oversight.

---

He hasn't done that.

---

Honest question: did you read the letter from the White House today? Because that's literally what it said.

In any case: here's a breakdown for you on why your impeachment argument doesn't make any sense.

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"It is you are blind to your own latent destructive fascism."

The irony of this statement, as Trump argues that he is not subject to any lawful oversight whatsoever, is thick enough to cut with a knife.

---

No one's arguing such a thing.

---

Yeah. That's literally what he's arguing.

---

How so?

---

By ignoring legal subpoenas -the prerogative of congress- he is literally saying he's not subject to oversight.

---

He hasn't done that.

---

Honest question: did you read the letter from the White House today? Because that's literally what it said.

---

I hadn't, but wow. That is literally the opposite of what it said.

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"It is you are blind to your own latent destructive fascism."

The irony of this statement, as Trump argues that he is not subject to any lawful oversight whatsoever, is thick enough to cut with a knife.

---

No one's arguing such a thing.

---

Yeah. That's literally what he's arguing.

---

How so?

---

By ignoring legal subpoenas -the prerogative of congress- he is literally saying he's not subject to oversight.

---

He hasn't done that.

---

Honest question: did you read the letter from the White House today? Because that's literally what it said.

---

I hadn't, but wow. That is literally the opposite of what it said.

---

What? It was a blank refusal to participate.

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"It is you are blind to your own latent destructive fascism."

The irony of this statement, as Trump argues that he is not subject to any lawful oversight whatsoever, is thick enough to cut with a knife.

---

No one's arguing such a thing.

---

Yeah. That's literally what he's arguing.

---

How so?

---

By ignoring legal subpoenas -the prerogative of congress- he is literally saying he's not subject to oversight.

---

He hasn't done that.

---

Honest question: did you read the letter from the White House today? Because that's literally what it said.

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I hadn't, but wow. That is literally the opposite of what it said.

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What? It was a blank refusal to participate.

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To participate in what?

blackie said:

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fadskier said:

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Actually jinx, to add to my previous comment, the news is pretty much like this board. You, Waco and cinque can always be counted on to see the worse, most negative thing in everyone. Y'all are first to pounce on anything negative about Trump and/or Republicans and/or Christians. You don't wait for facts or anything. You simply spread your hateful rhetoric as soon as possible. Conversely, there are those on this board that never post anything negative about anything. There are those who never post anything negative about Trump or Republicans.

You have the same type of people about Democrats.

I try to fit somewhere in the middle. I voted for Obama once. My vote is not tailored to a party but rather my beliefs in the way things should operate. While i felt betrayed and lied to by Obama, I did not come on this or any other board and post negative crap about him every time he did something wrong or I disagreed with him. Why? Because I believe you should support who is in office and try to find the good in things. Which is what I do now.

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Fad, I agree with your last paragraph, although I did not vote for Obama. However, I have had enough of Trump. When he came out with this "my great and ultimate wisdom" yesterday, that is the most scariest thing I have heard from a President. I also agree with Jinx that all this "free" stuff will not be seen in my lifetime. And that is what I will be betting on next November when I vote against Trump. The only way I could see it happening is if the Reps lose the Senate, and if they continue to cling to Trump he can possibly take them all down.

I have just seen and heard enough of Trump. The policies could be championed by someone else who is not the loose cannon and perpetual liar and braggart that we currently have sitting in the White House. The man just does not seem stable. I can't vote for that, I don't care what the other side is offering.

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Very well stated. He is unstable with nukes, although I don't believe he is likely to use them, but it is a concern.

BrooksBearLives said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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HuMcK said:

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"It is you are blind to your own latent destructive fascism."

The irony of this statement, as Trump argues that he is not subject to any lawful oversight whatsoever, is thick enough to cut with a knife.

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No one's arguing such a thing.

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Yeah. That's literally what he's arguing.

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How so?

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By ignoring legal subpoenas -the prerogative of congress- he is literally saying he's not subject to oversight.

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He hasn't done that.

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Honest question: did you read the letter from the White House today? Because that's literally what it said.

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I hadn't, but wow. That is literally the opposite of what it said.

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What? It was a blank refusal to participate.

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Yes it is. Because Dems have not followed procedure. She has the votes, but won't call for one. Why not?

curtpenn said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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I have literally served my entire life. I am an Eagle Scout. I took the EMT course as an 18 year-old because the volunteer ambulance service in my hometown wasn't going to be able to keep its doors open and offering services. I put off leaving for college for a year in part because of that.

I was a state scholar and national merit finalist. I won multiple scholarships for my efforts to rebuild a baseball field in my hometown so that our tee-ball program could be re-started (it's a poor part of the state so I had to raise the money AND organize the work myself). That work helped me get my full-ride to Baylor.

While there, I was a community leader even though I had all my financial need met. Honestly, I did it because I missed my family and being a big brother. From there, I was given an assistantship that would pay for my Master's program. I graduated and turned down offers from multiple schools to stay in Texas and work for a campus that I felt I could help. I thought I'd be there for 3 years, it's been 13 (I've had 3 promotions/positions created for me in that time).

I work for students and parents who need help accessing all the benefits that college can provide. I literally help students graduate 24/7. Part of that is working in conduct and Title IX. In that, I have advocated for both complainants and respondents to try and help them through some of the worst times of their lives.

My father, brother, and 6 cousins have all served in the Military. My brother is a West Point grad. That was the plan for me until I lost my kidney and wasn't eligible for military service (cancer sucks).

I have served roles in my church's vestry, altar guild and serve as on the lector rotation. We're in church every Sunday. I've served with Big Brother/Big Sister, continue to help out with Boy Scouts, and have served as chair for the largest Safe Trick-or-Treat in the county, serving over 1,000 kids and families every year, free of charge.

And on top of that, I am a PhD student trying desperately to be a good father, christian, husband, son, brother, boss, and friend while attending classes two nights a week with a 2 hour commute. I don't sleep a lot.

I don't know how any of this makes me a better patriot or anything. I just know how much I've been given by this country. I won the lottery just by being born here. I feel we get the government we deserve. I just want us to deserve better.

Hopefully I've passed your bull**** test. If I haven't, I guess you'll have to learn to live with it.

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I get it. You're a bright guy who earns his keep off of the hard-earned wages of others funneled into your institution. Sweet deal. I earned my keep by the sweat of my brow and by creating something almost from nothing while being forced to compete in a tough marketplace that determines winners and losers. All the time paying ever increasing taxes and fees to all sorts of entities for the "privilege" of competing while receiving virtually nothing in return and with no representation. Makers and takers, amigo.

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My clients pay me with their hard earned wages. How do you get paid?

quash said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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quash said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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quash said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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So. We really ****ed o we the Kurds, today.

How we feeling about that?

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Just fine.

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Seriously?

How do we build future alliances when we break treaties, sell out allies over a phone call, etc.?

This was a terrible, horrible, not very good thing. It was bad, m'kay?

If I were anybody but Putin I would never trust Trump.

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Speaking of alliances, how does a NATO ally like Turkey trust us when we're supporting Kurdish extremists carrying out terrorist attacks within their borders? Such an arrangement is necessarily temporary. These Kurdish groups are not good people. We have no common interests with them other than defeating ISIS. They were well aware of the possibility that we'd withdraw, and they've prepared for it.

---

You take it up with NATO. Trump did not.

Unilateral action like this damages our ability to act for peace in the future.

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What's there to take up with NATO? We've always agreed that any mission in the Middle East should have two priorities: kill terrorists and GTFO.

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Turkey is a NATO partner, not just a ME country.

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Trump doesn't respect treaties, so these guys don't, either.

TexasScientist said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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HuMcK said:

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"It is you are blind to your own latent destructive fascism."

The irony of this statement, as Trump argues that he is not subject to any lawful oversight whatsoever, is thick enough to cut with a knife.

---

No one's arguing such a thing.

---

Yeah. That's literally what he's arguing.

---

How so?

---

By ignoring legal subpoenas -the prerogative of congress- he is literally saying he's not subject to oversight.

---

He hasn't done that.

---

Honest question: did you read the letter from the White House today? Because that's literally what it said.

---

I hadn't, but wow. That is literally the opposite of what it said.

---

What? It was a blank refusal to participate.

---

To participate in what?

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Clinton complied with subpoenas. Clinton was smarter about how he handled the process. He stayed on task of running the country. As a result, the public didn't turn against him and he was reelected. (I'm not a Clinton fan or supporter). Trump is not that smart and he will be the cause of his own defeat in 2020, because of the way he conducts himself.

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Clinton was reelected in 1996. He was impeached in 1998, after reelection.

TexasScientist said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

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What? It was a blank refusal to participate.

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To participate in what?

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Clinton complied with subpoenas. Clinton was smarter about how he handled the process. He stayed on task of running the country. As a result, the public didn't turn against him and he was reelected. (I'm not a Clinton fan or supporter). Trump is not that smart and he will be the cause of his own defeat in 2020, because of the way he conducts himself.

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Can you imagine how Trump and his suppoters would have responded to the list of questions Brett Kavanaugh wrote for Ken Starr to ask Clinton. Wonder how Kavanaugh views Trump's response to this impeachment inquiry, since he was so gung ho about impeaching Clinton for lying about a sordid affair. That seems small compared with using government military aide as an incentive to get the government of Ukraine to investigate the son of a political opponent in order to ruin him:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/20/brett-kavanaugh-bill-clinton-explicit-questions-lewinsky-789599

"The idea of going easy on him at the questioning is ... abhorrent to me," Kavanaugh wrote in the two-page memo, which was sent to Starr and all other attorneys on his staff on Aug. 15, 1998. "The President has disgraced his Office, the legal system, and the American people by having sex with a 22-year-old intern and turning her life into a shambles callous and disgusting behavior that has somehow gotten lost in the shuffle. ... He has tried to disgrace you and this Office with a sustained propaganda campaign that would make Nixon blush.

Kavanaugh's tone in the memo could fuel questions at his confirmation hearings about whether Starr's prosecution went beyond an investigation of criminal conduct, evolving into a moral crusade against Clinton.
"He should be forced to account for all of that and to defend his actions," Kavanaugh added in a bold font. "It may not be our job to impose sanctions on him, but it is our job to make his pattern of revolting behavior clear piece by painful piece on Monday."

The memo goes on to list 10 questions he proposed for Clinton, six of which are explicit and several of which are extraordinarily graphic.

Among the questions:

"If Monica Lewinsky says that on several occasions in the Oval Office area, you used your fingers to stimulate her vagina and bring her to orgasm, would she be lying?"

"If Monica Lewinsky says that on several occasions you had her give oral sex, made her stop, and then ejaculated into the sink in the bathroom of the Oval Office, would she be lying?"

"If Monica Lewinsky says that you masturbated into a trashcan in your secretary's office, would she be lying?"
Kavanaugh's views on whether Starr should discuss Clinton's conduct in graphic detail appear to have varied, even around the time he wrote the memo. Later that same month, Kavanaugh wrote to colleagues that he was concerned with the volume of explicit content in a report to Congress that Starr was preparing.

Jinx 2 said:

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quash said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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quash said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

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So. We really ****ed o we the Kurds, today.

How we feeling about that?

---

Just fine.

---

Seriously?

How do we build future alliances when we break treaties, sell out allies over a phone call, etc.?

This was a terrible, horrible, not very good thing. It was bad, m'kay?

If I were anybody but Putin I would never trust Trump.

---

Speaking of alliances, how does a NATO ally like Turkey trust us when we're supporting Kurdish extremists carrying out terrorist attacks within their borders? Such an arrangement is necessarily temporary. These Kurdish groups are not good people. We have no common interests with them other than defeating ISIS. They were well aware of the possibility that we'd withdraw, and they've prepared for it.

---

You take it up with NATO. Trump did not.

Unilateral action like this damages our ability to act for peace in the future.

---

What's there to take up with NATO? We've always agreed that any mission in the Middle East should have two priorities: kill terrorists and GTFO.

---

Turkey is a NATO partner, not just a ME country.

---

Trump doesn't respect treaties, so these guys don't, either.

---

Trump aside, let's not pretend that the US-Turkey relationship is, or has been, like that of other NATO allies.

Jinx 2 said:

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Can you imagine how Trump and his suppoters would have responded to the list of questions Brett Kavanaugh wrote for Ken Starr to ask Clinton.

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That was Kavanugh's job.

Jinx 2 said:

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quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

quash said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

So. We really ****ed o we the Kurds, today.

How we feeling about that?

---

Just fine.

---

Seriously?

How do we build future alliances when we break treaties, sell out allies over a phone call, etc.?

This was a terrible, horrible, not very good thing. It was bad, m'kay?

If I were anybody but Putin I would never trust Trump.

---

Speaking of alliances, how does a NATO ally like Turkey trust us when we're supporting Kurdish extremists carrying out terrorist attacks within their borders? Such an arrangement is necessarily temporary. These Kurdish groups are not good people. We have no common interests with them other than defeating ISIS. They were well aware of the possibility that we'd withdraw, and they've prepared for it.

---

You take it up with NATO. Trump did not.

Unilateral action like this damages our ability to act for peace in the future.

---

What's there to take up with NATO? We've always agreed that any mission in the Middle East should have two priorities: kill terrorists and GTFO.

---

Turkey is a NATO partner, not just a ME country.

---

Trump doesn't respect treaties, so these guys don't, either.

---

Y'all are the ones saying Trump should side with Turkey's enemies. How is that respecting a treaty?

fadskier said:

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BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

BrooksBearLives said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

"It is you are blind to your own latent destructive fascism."

The irony of this statement, as Trump argues that he is not subject to any lawful oversight whatsoever, is thick enough to cut with a knife.

---

No one's arguing such a thing.

---

Yeah. That's literally what he's arguing.

---

How so?

---

By ignoring legal subpoenas -the prerogative of congress- he is literally saying he's not subject to oversight.

---

He hasn't done that.

---

Honest question: did you read the letter from the White House today? Because that's literally what it said.

---

I hadn't, but wow. That is literally the opposite of what it said.

---

What? It was a blank refusal to participate.

---

Yes it is. Because Dems have not followed procedure. She has the votes, but won't call for one. Why not?

---

The constitution is pretty silent on procedure.

You are simply wrong here.

Hillary testified for 11 HOURS.

Trump doesn't get to dictate how he's investigated. If you have even a shred of intellectual honesty, you will recognize the problem here. If he is allowed to get away with this, no president will ever be able to be impeached. And that is an existential threat to the future of our country.