Oldbear83 said:

---

Cheap shot is cheap shot.

Denying only makes you look worse.

---

You, of all people, shouldn't be policing board decorum. In any event, I said what I said and I stand by it. Sorry you feel attacked.

bear2be2 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Cheap shot is cheap shot.

Denying only makes you look worse.

---

You, of all people, shouldn't be policing board decorum. In any event, I said what I said and I stand by it. Sorry you feel attacked.

---

Again, you smear only your name.

Oldbear83 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Cheap shot is cheap shot.

Denying only makes you look worse.

---

You, of all people, shouldn't be policing board decorum. In any event, I said what I said and I stand by it. Sorry you feel attacked.

---

Again, you smear only your name.

---

Then it should be of no concern to you. And yet here you are, trying to tell me what I should and should not post.

Thanks officer, I can take it from here.

bear2be2 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Cheap shot is cheap shot.

Denying only makes you look worse.

---

You, of all people, shouldn't be policing board decorum. In any event, I said what I said and I stand by it. Sorry you feel attacked.

---

Again, you smear only your name.

---

Then it should be of no concern to you. And yet here you are, trying to tell me what I should and should not post.

Thanks officer, I can take it from here.

---

I'm just the 'check engine' light, no surprise you ignore me.

Doc Holliday said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Cheney and her ilk are wrong on a lot of things, but they're 100% right on this. This is completely unacceptable for anyone who claims to love the Constitution and the rule of law.

---

Adopting the rhetoric of your opponent doesn't impress anyone. It just emboldens your opponent and undermines your credibility among your natural allies.

---

The rhetoric of constitutionalism was not always unique to the left. It's the abandonment of our own principles that undermines our credibility.

A former president should not be undermining an election six months after the fact, especially not without evidence. It is obscene.

---

again, you are adopting the rhetoric of your opponent: he did not, and is not, undermining an election. He is keeping the GOP focused on severely flawed state laws that allowed our opponents to steal an election. He is merely playing the same exact games Democrats played, only better. That's why they're freaking out. It's working. Laws are being amended to close loopholes thru which Democrats poured hundreds of thousands of fraudulent ballots.

Dems do not tolerate Cheney-esque rebellion. Literally it never happens. They stay united. yes, they're united behind incredibly bad ideas, but that's why they're winning. They stay united. We simply cannot win when we have elected officials who put their own sensibilities before the interests of the people they represent, and the caucus they are elected to lead. There is absolutely nothing principled at all about what she's doing. She's putting her own vanity uber alles. Man, politics is one of an exceedingly small number of professions where compromising of ones principles is considered a virtue. And she is unwilling to compromise with an overwhelming majority of her own party. How ironic. A moderate who is willing to compromise.

---

Those claims have made their way through the courts. I understand case law, and I know what is and is not evidence. Some states may need reform, but to claim the election was stolen, based on the available evidence, is a lie.

Trump has offended my sensibilities for a long time. I supported him anyway. The rule of law and the peaceful transfer of power are not "sensibilities." They're what separates us from the dictatorships and banana republics of the world.

---

You should be far more concerned with the FBI/FISA abuse effort at ousting Trump.

As far as I'm concerned, the intelligence community can derail a presidency if DC doesn't like what that president is doing to their money. Because of their recent efforts, I know that my vote and support of populism is pointless: they will attack anyone I support.

---

I was concerned. Posted a lot about it at the time. No one imagined Trump wouldn't face opposition, but you know what? He survived it. The system worked. The election was his to win or lose. It's only because he's a sore loser that he has you convinced everything is broken. You're being lied to.

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

OsoCoreyell said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

C. Jordan said:

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Canon said:

---

She needs to go. She objected to personality and ignored the damage she was doing to policy.

---

So are you saying inciting insurrection is a matter of personality, not policy?

Really? There is no real policy with Trump. There is only personality. Conservatives who really care about policy, like Cheney, know he's an utter failure at it.

I agree with Cheney on practically nothing, but admire her moral courage. While McCarthy and his ilk went groveling to Trump after he incited violent insurrection, she stood fast. Sadly, Republicans are going to punish her for telling the truth. It's so dangerous for one man to have such power over people like the Republican base. He's turned the party into a personality cult.

Trump is going to go down in history as one of our worst presidents and the most dangerous. His toadies in congress are going to go down as gutless cowards who tried to hold on to power by degrading democracy.

---

Jan 6 was not an insurrection. No need for the big lie. The regressives embody degrading democracy. It's what they do. It's what democracy carried to its logical extreme does. There's a reason we have a republic and the left hates it so.

---

You can call it banana cream pie for all I care; It doesn't change the facts of what happened. Some numb-skulls who don't subscribe to reality were whipped into a frenzy based on falsehoods and stormed the US Capitol Building. There are a lot of reasons it shouldn't have happened, including a darn-near criminal reduction in the protective forces, but it still happened.

I am beffuddled by people that will whine about what's happening in Seattle and Portland and gloss over what happened at the Capitol. Just because the Dems lied and schemed about Russian collusion and all of that BS doesn't excuse what happened.

---

I think of Jan 6 as something of a positive in the sense that regressives need to understand that some people will only tolerate so much. There is no denying the election was irregular regardless of how some dance around with semantics. The powers that be need to be reminded from time to time that they may be vulnerable and should moderate their behavior accordingly. This is reality.

---

Stupid, dangerous comment that does not support your conclusion "Powers need be reminded."
We saw reality an insurrection in support of a "damn lie" (HST or MEk Twain).
Biden won. There is no evidence to the contrary. This is my conclusion based on fact.

---

You and your stupid fellow travelers are infinitely more dangerous to America and need to understand the incipient civil war may turn kinetic if you don't change your ways.

---

Thefomment is stupid and dangerous. I said nothing about person like you did.

curtpenn said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

You are purposefully conflating different things to form a straw-man you can use to justify your own behavior. First, Mueller was a Republican, appointed by a Republican, overseen by Republicans, to investigate Republicans. That's a more favorable a draw for Special Counsel than Trump deserved. Second, the impeachment had nothing to do with 2016 (although they should have pursued obstruction if Republicans had any integrity at all). Third, saying the Russians interfered in 2016 and members of the Trump campaign coordinated with that espionage (i.e. objective facts based on clear and convincing evidence), is not the same as saying the election was "stolen" through vague accusations of fraud like Trump is doing. But, you have to conflate them as being the same, I guess for your own conscience. Despite all of that, Hillary still called to concede the very next day, did Trump ever call Biden? Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

You're so caught up in your partisan loyalty that it's forcing you to refuse any acknowledgement of inconvenient reality, so you just blanket deny anything having to do with 2016/Russia no matter what evidence exists.

Not for nothing, but we did warn you years ago that if you elected Trump it would set us down a path of destabilization, and that's the exact reason why Russia favored him in in the first place. Well, whaddya know, 4yrs of Trump and the country seems a whole lot less stable than it did before, one side has even decided they don't like democracy anymore because they only represent a minority of voters. Trump and his hardcore supporters would be more than happy to ignite the country to keep him in power (see: events of 1/6), and the party he leads is too cowardly to even call him out for it, so here we are with the Cheney situation.

Accused pedophile Matt Gaetz has a home in the GOP, but not Liz Cheney, and that should tell you all you need to know.

---

So much stupid in your post it's not worth the time it would take to point out and explain all the flaws. No surprise.

---

Try taking just one.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Cheney and her ilk are wrong on a lot of things, but they're 100% right on this. This is completely unacceptable for anyone who claims to love the Constitution and the rule of law.

---

Adopting the rhetoric of your opponent doesn't impress anyone. It just emboldens your opponent and undermines your credibility among your natural allies.

---

The rhetoric of constitutionalism was not always unique to the left. It's the abandonment of our own principles that undermines our credibility.

A former president should not be undermining an election six months after the fact, especially not without evidence. It is obscene.

---

again, you are adopting the rhetoric of your opponent: he did not, and is not, undermining an election. He is keeping the GOP focused on severely flawed state laws that allowed our opponents to steal an election. He is merely playing the same exact games Democrats played, only better. That's why they're freaking out. It's working. Laws are being amended to close loopholes thru which Democrats poured hundreds of thousands of fraudulent ballots.

Dems do not tolerate Cheney-esque rebellion. Literally it never happens. They stay united. yes, they're united behind incredibly bad ideas, but that's why they're winning. They stay united. We simply cannot win when we have elected officials who put their own sensibilities before the interests of the people they represent, and the caucus they are elected to lead. There is absolutely nothing principled at all about what she's doing. She's putting her own vanity uber alles. Man, politics is one of an exceedingly small number of professions where compromising of ones principles is considered a virtue. And she is unwilling to compromise with an overwhelming majority of her own party. How ironic. A moderate who is willing to compromise.

---

Those claims have made their way through the courts. I understand case law, and I know what is and is not evidence. Some states may need reform, but to claim the election was stolen, based on the available evidence, is a lie.

Trump has offended my sensibilities for a long time. I supported him anyway. The rule of law and the peaceful transfer of power are not "sensibilities." They're what separates us from the dictatorships and banana republics of the world.

---

You should be far more concerned with the FBI/FISA abuse effort at ousting Trump.

As far as I'm concerned, the intelligence community can derail a presidency if DC doesn't like what that president is doing to their money. Because of their recent efforts, I know that my vote and support of populism is pointless: they will attack anyone I support.

---

I was concerned. Posted a lot about it at the time. No one imagined Trump wouldn't face opposition, but you know what? He survived it. The system worked. The election was his to win or lose. It's only because he's a sore loser that he has you convinced everything is broken. You're being lied to.

---

They didn't oust him, but they did stonewall his administration and by proxy what I voted for.

It was also used to influence 2018 midterms with illegal leaks along with MSM running disinformation.

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

You are purposefully conflating different things to form a straw-man you can use to justify your own behavior. First, Mueller was a Republican, appointed by a Republican, overseen by Republicans, to investigate Republicans. That's a more favorable a draw for Special Counsel than Trump deserved. Second, the impeachment had nothing to do with 2016 (although they should have pursued obstruction if Republicans had any integrity at all). Third, saying the Russians interfered in 2016 and members of the Trump campaign coordinated with that espionage (i.e. objective facts based on clear and convincing evidence), is not the same as saying the election was "stolen" through vague accusations of fraud like Trump is doing. But, you have to conflate them as being the same, I guess for your own conscience. Despite all of that, Hillary still called to concede the very next day, did Trump ever call Biden? Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

You're so caught up in your partisan loyalty that it's forcing you to refuse any acknowledgement of inconvenient reality, so you just blanket deny anything having to do with 2016/Russia no matter what evidence exists.

Not for nothing, but we did warn you years ago that if you elected Trump it would set us down a path of destabilization, and that's the exact reason why Russia favored him in in the first place. Well, whaddya know, 4yrs of Trump and the country seems a whole lot less stable than it did before, one side has even decided they don't like democracy anymore because they only represent a minority of voters. Trump and his hardcore supporters would be more than happy to ignite the country to keep him in power (see: events of 1/6), and the party he leads is too cowardly to even call him out for it, so here we are with the Cheney situation.

Accused pedophile Matt Gaetz has a home in the GOP, but not Liz Cheney, and that should tell you all you need to know.

---

So much stupid in your post it's not worth the time it would take to point out and explain all the flaws. No surprise.

---

Try taking just one.

---

You're not worth the effort.

HuMcK said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

You are purposefully conflating different things to form a straw-man you can use to justify your own behavior. First, Mueller was a Republican, appointed by a Republican, overseen by Republicans, to investigate Republicans. That's a more favorable a draw for Special Counsel than Trump deserved. Second, the impeachment had nothing to do with 2016 (although they should have pursued obstruction if Republicans had any integrity at all). Third, saying the Russians interfered in 2016 and members of the Trump campaign coordinated with that espionage (i.e. objective facts based on clear and convincing evidence), is not the same as saying the election was "stolen" through vague accusations of fraud like Trump is doing. But, you have to conflate them as being the same, I guess for your own conscience. Despite all of that, Hillary still called to concede the very next day, did Trump ever call Biden? Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

You're so caught up in your partisan loyalty that it's forcing you to refuse any acknowledgement of inconvenient reality, so you just blanket deny anything having to do with 2016/Russia no matter what evidence exists.

Not for nothing, but we did warn you years ago that if you elected Trump it would set us down a path of destabilization, and that's the exact reason why Russia favored him in in the first place. Well, whaddya know, 4yrs of Trump and the country seems a whole lot less stable than it did before, one side has even decided they don't like democracy anymore because they only represent a minority of voters. Trump and his hardcore supporters would be more than happy to ignite the country to keep him in power (see: events of 1/6), and the party he leads is too cowardly to even call him out for it, so here we are with the Cheney situation.

Accused pedophile Matt Gaetz has a home in the GOP, but not Liz Cheney, and that should tell you all you need to know.

---

I could give two craps about Trump or some partisan loyalty. What's happening in the Republican Party is two competing loyalties, and those loyalties aren't to any defined principles, only power. Trump needs to disappear. I'm shocked there wasn't a larger investigation into his inciting of the riot to seal that. He's a populist and I disdain populism.

But I'm not conflating anything. We love to rewrite history and cherry pick facts to support the narrative. This didn't even start with Hillary, this started with the Obama administration. The Russians don't like Trump because of the way he reacted, they like Trump because of how YOU reacted. You created questions around the election. YOU created questions about the integrity of democracy. YOU created the idea that a Russian shill was in the Whitehouse. YOU used actual false Russian intelligence to start spying on an American. YOU are the ones who built up Trump for the Russians to use, and YOU are the ones who fed into it and the perception of instability.

This is classic psy-ops that our Social Media crazed and low information society was perfect for. The CIA did something nearly identical to get Mohammed Mossedgh removed as leader of Iran. They created the perception that he was a Soviet shill and he was deposed. The Russians were almost successful in their similar campaign.

There are two Big Lies. We love to talk about the second one, but conveniently ignore or even embrace the first one.

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

You are purposefully conflating different things to form a straw-man you can use to justify your own behavior. First, Mueller was a Republican, appointed by a Republican, overseen by Republicans, to investigate Republicans. That's a more favorable a draw for Special Counsel than Trump deserved. Second, the impeachment had nothing to do with 2016 (although they should have pursued obstruction if Republicans had any integrity at all). Third, saying the Russians interfered in 2016 and members of the Trump campaign coordinated with that espionage (i.e. objective facts based on clear and convincing evidence), is not the same as saying the election was "stolen" through vague accusations of fraud like Trump is doing. But, you have to conflate them as being the same, I guess for your own conscience. Despite all of that, Hillary still called to concede the very next day, did Trump ever call Biden? Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

You're so caught up in your partisan loyalty that it's forcing you to refuse any acknowledgement of inconvenient reality, so you just blanket deny anything having to do with 2016/Russia no matter what evidence exists.

Not for nothing, but we did warn you years ago that if you elected Trump it would set us down a path of destabilization, and that's the exact reason why Russia favored him in in the first place. Well, whaddya know, 4yrs of Trump and the country seems a whole lot less stable than it did before, one side has even decided they don't like democracy anymore because they only represent a minority of voters. Trump and his hardcore supporters would be more than happy to ignite the country to keep him in power (see: events of 1/6), and the party he leads is too cowardly to even call him out for it, so here we are with the Cheney situation.

Accused pedophile Matt Gaetz has a home in the GOP, but not Liz Cheney, and that should tell you all you need to know.

---

So much stupid in your post it's not worth the time it would take to point out and explain all the flaws. No surprise.

---

Try taking just one.

---

You're not worth the effort.

---

Also waiting on your answer as to what form of government you want to replace our democracy.

ATL Bear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

You are purposefully conflating different things to form a straw-man you can use to justify your own behavior. First, Mueller was a Republican, appointed by a Republican, overseen by Republicans, to investigate Republicans. That's a more favorable a draw for Special Counsel than Trump deserved. Second, the impeachment had nothing to do with 2016 (although they should have pursued obstruction if Republicans had any integrity at all). Third, saying the Russians interfered in 2016 and members of the Trump campaign coordinated with that espionage (i.e. objective facts based on clear and convincing evidence), is not the same as saying the election was "stolen" through vague accusations of fraud like Trump is doing. But, you have to conflate them as being the same, I guess for your own conscience. Despite all of that, Hillary still called to concede the very next day, did Trump ever call Biden? Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

You're so caught up in your partisan loyalty that it's forcing you to refuse any acknowledgement of inconvenient reality, so you just blanket deny anything having to do with 2016/Russia no matter what evidence exists.

Not for nothing, but we did warn you years ago that if you elected Trump it would set us down a path of destabilization, and that's the exact reason why Russia favored him in in the first place. Well, whaddya know, 4yrs of Trump and the country seems a whole lot less stable than it did before, one side has even decided they don't like democracy anymore because they only represent a minority of voters. Trump and his hardcore supporters would be more than happy to ignite the country to keep him in power (see: events of 1/6), and the party he leads is too cowardly to even call him out for it, so here we are with the Cheney situation.

Accused pedophile Matt Gaetz has a home in the GOP, but not Liz Cheney, and that should tell you all you need to know.

---

The Russians don't like Trump because of the way he reacted, they like Trump because of how YOU reacted. You created questions around the election. YOU created questions about the integrity of democracy. YOU created the idea that a Russian shill was in the Whitehouse. YOU used actual false Russian intelligence to start spying on an American. YOU are the ones who built up Trump for the Russians to use, and YOU are the ones who fed into it and the perception of instability.

---

This was true when Trump was in office. Ever since he lost he's turned into Rachel Maddow.

So it's my fault for observing facts like Trump's campaign manager having clandestine meetings with a Russian spy (which you still just blanket deny despite incontrovertible evidence)? What a neat little catch-22 you've set up to absolve yourself. The "party of personal responsibility" strikes again, making it everyone else's fault for noticing their shtty behavior (which of course is also the opposition's fault).

At some point you need to accept responsibility for the man who leads your party and your support for him. You voted for the guy, not me. Nobody made you act as his apologist, that's all you.

HuMcK said:

---

So it's my fault for observing facts like Trump's campaign manager having clandestine meetings with a Russian spy (which you still just blanket deny despite incontrovertible evidence)? What a neat little catch-22 you've set up to absolve yourself. The "party of personal responsibility" strikes again, making it everyone else's fault for noticing their shtty behavior (which of course is also the opposition's fault).

At some point you need to accept responsibility for the man who leads your party and your support for him. You voted for the guy, not me. Nobody made you act as his apologist, that's all you.

---

Give it up snowflake, the 3 year investigation produced bupkis. You just look obsessed and well, stupid.

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Cheney and her ilk are wrong on a lot of things, but they're 100% right on this. This is completely unacceptable for anyone who claims to love the Constitution and the rule of law.

---

Adopting the rhetoric of your opponent doesn't impress anyone. It just emboldens your opponent and undermines your credibility among your natural allies.

---

The rhetoric of constitutionalism was not always unique to the left. It's the abandonment of our own principles that undermines our credibility.

A former president should not be undermining an election six months after the fact, especially not without evidence. It is obscene.

---

again, you are adopting the rhetoric of your opponent: he did not, and is not, undermining an election. He is keeping the GOP focused on severely flawed state laws that allowed our opponents to steal an election. He is merely playing the same exact games Democrats played, only better. That's why they're freaking out. It's working. Laws are being amended to close loopholes thru which Democrats poured hundreds of thousands of fraudulent ballots.

Dems do not tolerate Cheney-esque rebellion. Literally it never happens. They stay united. yes, they're united behind incredibly bad ideas, but that's why they're winning. They stay united. We simply cannot win when we have elected officials who put their own sensibilities before the interests of the people they represent, and the caucus they are elected to lead. There is absolutely nothing principled at all about what she's doing. She's putting her own vanity uber alles. Man, politics is one of an exceedingly small number of professions where compromising of ones principles is considered a virtue. And she is unwilling to compromise with an overwhelming majority of her own party. How ironic. A moderate who is willing to compromise.

---

Those claims have made their way through the courts. I understand case law, and I know what is and is not evidence. Some states may need reform, but to claim the election was stolen, based on the available evidence, is a lie.

Trump has offended my sensibilities for a long time. I supported him anyway. The rule of law and the peaceful transfer of power are not "sensibilities." They're what separates us from the dictatorships and banana republics of the world.

---

Exactly!!

---

We watched the election stolen on TV. We watched state law violated. We watch state law corrupted by consent agreements. We watched unfathomable bias in the press and social media. We watched apoplexy flow when the GOP engaged in exactly the same election challenge techniques that Democrats had done repeatedly in the past. We watched the way the media and law enforcement dealt with sustained, well-coordinated and well-funded attacks on state and federal facilities for months and compared it to how the Capitol Riot was handled. And it was all, indeed, a banana republic show. But conservatives/Republicans neither wrote the screenplay nor acted the parts.

NeverTrumpers are a peculiar lot. They affect a vanity that they are somehow above playing politics, and react with horror when Republicans actually do it well.

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

You are purposefully conflating different things to form a straw-man you can use to justify your own behavior. First, Mueller was a Republican, appointed by a Republican, overseen by Republicans, to investigate Republicans. That's a more favorable a draw for Special Counsel than Trump deserved. Second, the impeachment had nothing to do with 2016 (although they should have pursued obstruction if Republicans had any integrity at all). Third, saying the Russians interfered in 2016 and members of the Trump campaign coordinated with that espionage (i.e. objective facts based on clear and convincing evidence), is not the same as saying the election was "stolen" through vague accusations of fraud like Trump is doing. But, you have to conflate them as being the same, I guess for your own conscience. Despite all of that, Hillary still called to concede the very next day, did Trump ever call Biden? Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

You're so caught up in your partisan loyalty that it's forcing you to refuse any acknowledgement of inconvenient reality, so you just blanket deny anything having to do with 2016/Russia no matter what evidence exists.

Not for nothing, but we did warn you years ago that if you elected Trump it would set us down a path of destabilization, and that's the exact reason why Russia favored him in in the first place. Well, whaddya know, 4yrs of Trump and the country seems a whole lot less stable than it did before, one side has even decided they don't like democracy anymore because they only represent a minority of voters. Trump and his hardcore supporters would be more than happy to ignite the country to keep him in power (see: events of 1/6), and the party he leads is too cowardly to even call him out for it, so here we are with the Cheney situation.

Accused pedophile Matt Gaetz has a home in the GOP, but not Liz Cheney, and that should tell you all you need to know.

---

So much stupid in your post it's not worth the time it would take to point out and explain all the flaws. No surprise.

---

Try taking just one.

---

You're not worth the effort.

---

Also waiting on your answer as to what form of government you want to replace our democracy.

---

Churchill had it right about democracy. I am content to advocate for and support resistance to the tyranny and culture cancelling of the regressives. Whatever it takes.

#BidenDelendaEst

ATL Bear said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

You are purposefully conflating different things to form a straw-man you can use to justify your own behavior. First, Mueller was a Republican, appointed by a Republican, overseen by Republicans, to investigate Republicans. That's a more favorable a draw for Special Counsel than Trump deserved. Second, the impeachment had nothing to do with 2016 (although they should have pursued obstruction if Republicans had any integrity at all). Third, saying the Russians interfered in 2016 and members of the Trump campaign coordinated with that espionage (i.e. objective facts based on clear and convincing evidence), is not the same as saying the election was "stolen" through vague accusations of fraud like Trump is doing. But, you have to conflate them as being the same, I guess for your own conscience. Despite all of that, Hillary still called to concede the very next day, did Trump ever call Biden? Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

You're so caught up in your partisan loyalty that it's forcing you to refuse any acknowledgement of inconvenient reality, so you just blanket deny anything having to do with 2016/Russia no matter what evidence exists.

Not for nothing, but we did warn you years ago that if you elected Trump it would set us down a path of destabilization, and that's the exact reason why Russia favored him in in the first place. Well, whaddya know, 4yrs of Trump and the country seems a whole lot less stable than it did before, one side has even decided they don't like democracy anymore because they only represent a minority of voters. Trump and his hardcore supporters would be more than happy to ignite the country to keep him in power (see: events of 1/6), and the party he leads is too cowardly to even call him out for it, so here we are with the Cheney situation.

Accused pedophile Matt Gaetz has a home in the GOP, but not Liz Cheney, and that should tell you all you need to know.

---

I could give two craps about Trump or some partisan loyalty. What's happening in the Republican Party is two competing loyalties, and those loyalties aren't to any defined principles, only power. Trump needs to disappear. I'm shocked there wasn't a larger investigation into his inciting of the riot to seal that. He's a populist and I disdain populism.

But I'm not conflating anything. We love to rewrite history and cherry pick facts to support the narrative. This didn't even start with Hillary, this started with the Obama administration. The Russians don't like Trump because of the way he reacted, they like Trump because of how YOU reacted. You created questions around the election. YOU created questions about the integrity of democracy. YOU created the idea that a Russian shill was in the Whitehouse. YOU used actual false Russian intelligence to start spying on an American. YOU are the ones who built up Trump for the Russians to use, and YOU are the ones who fed into it and the perception of instability.

This is classic psy-ops that our Social Media crazed and low information society was perfect for. The CIA did something nearly identical to get Mohammed Mossedgh removed as leader of Iran. They created the perception that he was a Soviet shill and he was deposed. The Russians were almost successful in their similar campaign.

There are two Big Lies. We love to talk about the second one, but conveniently ignore or even embrace the first one.

---

Regressives always desire to make everything about Trump, when the truth is this is a cultural clash between diametrically opposed forces. Absent the totalitarianism and desire for power of the left, there would be no Trump. Much easier to attack Trump than to persuade others that their freedom destroying agenda is for the best.

whiterock said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Cheney and her ilk are wrong on a lot of things, but they're 100% right on this. This is completely unacceptable for anyone who claims to love the Constitution and the rule of law.

---

Adopting the rhetoric of your opponent doesn't impress anyone. It just emboldens your opponent and undermines your credibility among your natural allies.

---

The rhetoric of constitutionalism was not always unique to the left. It's the abandonment of our own principles that undermines our credibility.

A former president should not be undermining an election six months after the fact, especially not without evidence. It is obscene.

---

again, you are adopting the rhetoric of your opponent: he did not, and is not, undermining an election. He is keeping the GOP focused on severely flawed state laws that allowed our opponents to steal an election. He is merely playing the same exact games Democrats played, only better. That's why they're freaking out. It's working. Laws are being amended to close loopholes thru which Democrats poured hundreds of thousands of fraudulent ballots.

Dems do not tolerate Cheney-esque rebellion. Literally it never happens. They stay united. yes, they're united behind incredibly bad ideas, but that's why they're winning. They stay united. We simply cannot win when we have elected officials who put their own sensibilities before the interests of the people they represent, and the caucus they are elected to lead. There is absolutely nothing principled at all about what she's doing. She's putting her own vanity uber alles. Man, politics is one of an exceedingly small number of professions where compromising of ones principles is considered a virtue. And she is unwilling to compromise with an overwhelming majority of her own party. How ironic. A moderate who is willing to compromise.

---

Those claims have made their way through the courts. I understand case law, and I know what is and is not evidence. Some states may need reform, but to claim the election was stolen, based on the available evidence, is a lie.

Trump has offended my sensibilities for a long time. I supported him anyway. The rule of law and the peaceful transfer of power are not "sensibilities." They're what separates us from the dictatorships and banana republics of the world.

---

Exactly!!

---

We watched the election stolen on TV. We watched state law violated. We watch state law corrupted by consent agreements. We watched unfathomable bias in the press and social media. We watched apoplexy flow when the GOP engaged in exactly the same election challenge techniques that Democrats had done repeatedly in the past. We watched the way the media and law enforcement dealt with sustained, well-coordinated and well-funded attacks on state and federal facilities for months and compared it to how the Capitol Riot was handled. And it was all, indeed, a banana republic show. But conservatives/Republicans neither wrote the screenplay nor acted the parts.

NeverTrumpers are a peculiar lot. They affect a vanity that they are somehow above playing politics, and react with horror when Republicans actually do it well.

---

There's a lot of truth in this post. And not a word of it supports the bolded lie. A long list of loosely related grievances is not evidence.

whiterock said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Cheney and her ilk are wrong on a lot of things, but they're 100% right on this. This is completely unacceptable for anyone who claims to love the Constitution and the rule of law.

---

Adopting the rhetoric of your opponent doesn't impress anyone. It just emboldens your opponent and undermines your credibility among your natural allies.

---

The rhetoric of constitutionalism was not always unique to the left. It's the abandonment of our own principles that undermines our credibility.

A former president should not be undermining an election six months after the fact, especially not without evidence. It is obscene.

---

again, you are adopting the rhetoric of your opponent: he did not, and is not, undermining an election. He is keeping the GOP focused on severely flawed state laws that allowed our opponents to steal an election. He is merely playing the same exact games Democrats played, only better. That's why they're freaking out. It's working. Laws are being amended to close loopholes thru which Democrats poured hundreds of thousands of fraudulent ballots.

Dems do not tolerate Cheney-esque rebellion. Literally it never happens. They stay united. yes, they're united behind incredibly bad ideas, but that's why they're winning. They stay united. We simply cannot win when we have elected officials who put their own sensibilities before the interests of the people they represent, and the caucus they are elected to lead. There is absolutely nothing principled at all about what she's doing. She's putting her own vanity uber alles. Man, politics is one of an exceedingly small number of professions where compromising of ones principles is considered a virtue. And she is unwilling to compromise with an overwhelming majority of her own party. How ironic. A moderate who is willing to compromise.

---

Those claims have made their way through the courts. I understand case law, and I know what is and is not evidence. Some states may need reform, but to claim the election was stolen, based on the available evidence, is a lie.

Trump has offended my sensibilities for a long time. I supported him anyway. The rule of law and the peaceful transfer of power are not "sensibilities." They're what separates us from the dictatorships and banana republics of the world.

---

Exactly!!

---

We watched the election stolen on TV. We watched state law violated. We watch state law corrupted by consent agreements. We watched unfathomable bias in the press and social media. We watched apoplexy flow when the GOP engaged in exactly the same election challenge techniques that Democrats had done repeatedly in the past. We watched the way the media and law enforcement dealt with sustained, well-coordinated and well-funded attacks on state and federal facilities for months and compared it to how the Capitol Riot was handled. And it was all, indeed, a banana republic show. But conservatives/Republicans neither wrote the screenplay nor acted the parts.

NeverTrumpers are a peculiar lot. They affect a vanity that they are somehow above playing politics, and react with horror when Republicans actually do it well.

---

You watched and listened to unsupported allegations, allegations that failed at every court appearance for lack of evidence or standing. All of the of the lawless acts occurred on Trump's watch, which he had said would never happen while he was in charge, and the assualt on the Capitol was at his orgainizing and behest. The facts are well known and history will not be skewed.

You're confussed about the term 'never Trumpers.' Never Trumpers are Republicans and conservatives who formed the movement, because they saw Trump for the danger he is and has proven to be to democracy and our country. Trump is definitely not a conservative and is not a true 'Republican.'

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

You are purposefully conflating different things to form a straw-man you can use to justify your own behavior. First, Mueller was a Republican, appointed by a Republican, overseen by Republicans, to investigate Republicans. That's a more favorable a draw for Special Counsel than Trump deserved. Second, the impeachment had nothing to do with 2016 (although they should have pursued obstruction if Republicans had any integrity at all). Third, saying the Russians interfered in 2016 and members of the Trump campaign coordinated with that espionage (i.e. objective facts based on clear and convincing evidence), is not the same as saying the election was "stolen" through vague accusations of fraud like Trump is doing. But, you have to conflate them as being the same, I guess for your own conscience. Despite all of that, Hillary still called to concede the very next day, did Trump ever call Biden? Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

You're so caught up in your partisan loyalty that it's forcing you to refuse any acknowledgement of inconvenient reality, so you just blanket deny anything having to do with 2016/Russia no matter what evidence exists.

Not for nothing, but we did warn you years ago that if you elected Trump it would set us down a path of destabilization, and that's the exact reason why Russia favored him in in the first place. Well, whaddya know, 4yrs of Trump and the country seems a whole lot less stable than it did before, one side has even decided they don't like democracy anymore because they only represent a minority of voters. Trump and his hardcore supporters would be more than happy to ignite the country to keep him in power (see: events of 1/6), and the party he leads is too cowardly to even call him out for it, so here we are with the Cheney situation.

Accused pedophile Matt Gaetz has a home in the GOP, but not Liz Cheney, and that should tell you all you need to know.

---

So much stupid in your post it's not worth the time it would take to point out and explain all the flaws. No surprise.

---

Try taking just one.

---

You're not worth the effort.

---

Also waiting on your answer as to what form of government you want to replace our democracy.

---

We have, or at least had, a democratic republic. The Left and the Corporatists have worked hard to end that.

HuMcK said:

---

So it's my fault for observing facts like Trump's campaign manager having clandestine meetings with a Russian spy (which you still just blanket deny despite incontrovertible evidence)? What a neat little catch-22 you've set up to absolve yourself. The "party of personal responsibility" strikes again, making it everyone else's fault for noticing their shtty behavior (which of course is also the opposition's fault).

At some point you need to accept responsibility for the man who leads your party and your support for him. You voted for the guy, not me. Nobody made you act as his apologist, that's all you.

---

If you observe a garage door opener and conclude it's magical, you are at fault. The left deals in fantasy.

To all you Trump-Haters: I get it.

His personality and ego are repulsive, but...his policies are what I admire. I am not inviting him over for a beer or to play a round of golf, I would hate to be in the same room with him. But i do like so much of what he did to strengthen our country.

If you dont like his policies, does that mean you like the chaos at the border and the vast number of un-vetted illegals circulating throughout the country?
Do you like immigration laws that prohibit deportation of illegal immigrant criminals?
Do you like cozying up to Iran who make no secret of desire to destroy both Israel and the US?
Do you like being dependent on natural resources and energy sources supplied by our enemies?
Do you like being part of a climate accord that restricts us but allows China, India and others to pollute as they wish?
Do you like teachers unions keeping our kids out of school or in masks?
Do you like having a President who is discouraged from answering Press questions?
Do you like seeing a dithering, confused old man wearing a mask when he is by -himself?

Hell, no I dont like Trump, but I hope I get a chance to vote for him again if it wont be too late to save the country.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

You are purposefully conflating different things to form a straw-man you can use to justify your own behavior. First, Mueller was a Republican, appointed by a Republican, overseen by Republicans, to investigate Republicans. That's a more favorable a draw for Special Counsel than Trump deserved. Second, the impeachment had nothing to do with 2016 (although they should have pursued obstruction if Republicans had any integrity at all). Third, saying the Russians interfered in 2016 and members of the Trump campaign coordinated with that espionage (i.e. objective facts based on clear and convincing evidence), is not the same as saying the election was "stolen" through vague accusations of fraud like Trump is doing. But, you have to conflate them as being the same, I guess for your own conscience. Despite all of that, Hillary still called to concede the very next day, did Trump ever call Biden? Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

You're so caught up in your partisan loyalty that it's forcing you to refuse any acknowledgement of inconvenient reality, so you just blanket deny anything having to do with 2016/Russia no matter what evidence exists.

Not for nothing, but we did warn you years ago that if you elected Trump it would set us down a path of destabilization, and that's the exact reason why Russia favored him in in the first place. Well, whaddya know, 4yrs of Trump and the country seems a whole lot less stable than it did before, one side has even decided they don't like democracy anymore because they only represent a minority of voters. Trump and his hardcore supporters would be more than happy to ignite the country to keep him in power (see: events of 1/6), and the party he leads is too cowardly to even call him out for it, so here we are with the Cheney situation.

Accused pedophile Matt Gaetz has a home in the GOP, but not Liz Cheney, and that should tell you all you need to know.

---

So much stupid in your post it's not worth the time it would take to point out and explain all the flaws. No surprise.

---

Try taking just one.

---

You're not worth the effort.

---

Also waiting on your answer as to what form of government you want to replace our democracy.

---

We have, or at least had, a democratic republic. The Left and the Corporatists have worked hard to end that.

---

By voting? Or by storming the capitol to stop vote counting? Who did which of those two things?

The right is developing, not just a tolerance, but a positive appetite for lies. As if to deal in facts is to play in the enemy's territory, whereas fantasy feels more empowering.

whiterock said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Cheney and her ilk are wrong on a lot of things, but they're 100% right on this. This is completely unacceptable for anyone who claims to love the Constitution and the rule of law.

---

Adopting the rhetoric of your opponent doesn't impress anyone. It just emboldens your opponent and undermines your credibility among your natural allies.

---

The rhetoric of constitutionalism was not always unique to the left. It's the abandonment of our own principles that undermines our credibility.

A former president should not be undermining an election six months after the fact, especially not without evidence. It is obscene.

---

again, you are adopting the rhetoric of your opponent: he did not, and is not, undermining an election. He is keeping the GOP focused on severely flawed state laws that allowed our opponents to steal an election. He is merely playing the same exact games Democrats played, only better. That's why they're freaking out. It's working. Laws are being amended to close loopholes thru which Democrats poured hundreds of thousands of fraudulent ballots.

Dems do not tolerate Cheney-esque rebellion. Literally it never happens. They stay united. yes, they're united behind incredibly bad ideas, but that's why they're winning. They stay united. We simply cannot win when we have elected officials who put their own sensibilities before the interests of the people they represent, and the caucus they are elected to lead. There is absolutely nothing principled at all about what she's doing. She's putting her own vanity uber alles. Man, politics is one of an exceedingly small number of professions where compromising of ones principles is considered a virtue. And she is unwilling to compromise with an overwhelming majority of her own party. How ironic. A moderate who is willing to compromise.

---

Those claims have made their way through the courts. I understand case law, and I know what is and is not evidence. Some states may need reform, but to claim the election was stolen, based on the available evidence, is a lie.

Trump has offended my sensibilities for a long time. I supported him anyway. The rule of law and the peaceful transfer of power are not "sensibilities." They're what separates us from the dictatorships and banana republics of the world.

---

Exactly!!

---

We watched the election stolen on TV. We watched state law violated. We watch state law corrupted by consent agreements. We watched unfathomable bias in the press and social media. We watched apoplexy flow when the GOP engaged in exactly the same election challenge techniques that Democrats had done repeatedly in the past. We watched the way the media and law enforcement dealt with sustained, well-coordinated and well-funded attacks on state and federal facilities for months and compared it to how the Capitol Riot was handled. And it was all, indeed, a banana republic show. But conservatives/Republicans neither wrote the screenplay nor acted the parts.

NeverTrumpers are a peculiar lot. They affect a vanity that they are somehow above playing politics, and react with horror when Republicans actually do it well.

---

You, sir are ignorant. Biden won. Trumpy did not. 7M votes say otherwise. Go ahead and think what you think.

HuMcK said:

---

So it's my fault for observing facts like Trump's campaign manager having clandestine meetings with a Russian spy (which you still just blanket deny despite incontrovertible evidence)? What a neat little catch-22 you've set up to absolve yourself. The "party of personal responsibility" strikes again, making it everyone else's fault for noticing their shtty behavior (which of course is also the opposition's fault).

At some point you need to accept responsibility for the man who leads your party and your support for him. You voted for the guy, not me. Nobody made you act as his apologist, that's all you.

---

It's your fault for assigning extreme motives and actions to an otherwise inconsequential and, as uncovered, meaningless event. It's the equivalent of seeing low energy low turnout Biden rallies and that being the evidence of voter fraud.

Booray said:

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Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

You are purposefully conflating different things to form a straw-man you can use to justify your own behavior. First, Mueller was a Republican, appointed by a Republican, overseen by Republicans, to investigate Republicans. That's a more favorable a draw for Special Counsel than Trump deserved. Second, the impeachment had nothing to do with 2016 (although they should have pursued obstruction if Republicans had any integrity at all). Third, saying the Russians interfered in 2016 and members of the Trump campaign coordinated with that espionage (i.e. objective facts based on clear and convincing evidence), is not the same as saying the election was "stolen" through vague accusations of fraud like Trump is doing. But, you have to conflate them as being the same, I guess for your own conscience. Despite all of that, Hillary still called to concede the very next day, did Trump ever call Biden? Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

You're so caught up in your partisan loyalty that it's forcing you to refuse any acknowledgement of inconvenient reality, so you just blanket deny anything having to do with 2016/Russia no matter what evidence exists.

Not for nothing, but we did warn you years ago that if you elected Trump it would set us down a path of destabilization, and that's the exact reason why Russia favored him in in the first place. Well, whaddya know, 4yrs of Trump and the country seems a whole lot less stable than it did before, one side has even decided they don't like democracy anymore because they only represent a minority of voters. Trump and his hardcore supporters would be more than happy to ignite the country to keep him in power (see: events of 1/6), and the party he leads is too cowardly to even call him out for it, so here we are with the Cheney situation.

Accused pedophile Matt Gaetz has a home in the GOP, but not Liz Cheney, and that should tell you all you need to know.

---

So much stupid in your post it's not worth the time it would take to point out and explain all the flaws. No surprise.

---

Try taking just one.

---

You're not worth the effort.

---

Also waiting on your answer as to what form of government you want to replace our democracy.

---

We have, or at least had, a democratic republic. The Left and the Corporatists have worked hard to end that.

---

By voting? Or by storming the capitol to stop vote counting? Who did which of those two things?

---

You are awfully bitter, considering you got the government you wanted, Alzheimer's and all.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

You are purposefully conflating different things to form a straw-man you can use to justify your own behavior. First, Mueller was a Republican, appointed by a Republican, overseen by Republicans, to investigate Republicans. That's a more favorable a draw for Special Counsel than Trump deserved. Second, the impeachment had nothing to do with 2016 (although they should have pursued obstruction if Republicans had any integrity at all). Third, saying the Russians interfered in 2016 and members of the Trump campaign coordinated with that espionage (i.e. objective facts based on clear and convincing evidence), is not the same as saying the election was "stolen" through vague accusations of fraud like Trump is doing. But, you have to conflate them as being the same, I guess for your own conscience. Despite all of that, Hillary still called to concede the very next day, did Trump ever call Biden? Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

You're so caught up in your partisan loyalty that it's forcing you to refuse any acknowledgement of inconvenient reality, so you just blanket deny anything having to do with 2016/Russia no matter what evidence exists.

Not for nothing, but we did warn you years ago that if you elected Trump it would set us down a path of destabilization, and that's the exact reason why Russia favored him in in the first place. Well, whaddya know, 4yrs of Trump and the country seems a whole lot less stable than it did before, one side has even decided they don't like democracy anymore because they only represent a minority of voters. Trump and his hardcore supporters would be more than happy to ignite the country to keep him in power (see: events of 1/6), and the party he leads is too cowardly to even call him out for it, so here we are with the Cheney situation.

Accused pedophile Matt Gaetz has a home in the GOP, but not Liz Cheney, and that should tell you all you need to know.

---

So much stupid in your post it's not worth the time it would take to point out and explain all the flaws. No surprise.

---

Try taking just one.

---

You're not worth the effort.

---

Also waiting on your answer as to what form of government you want to replace our democracy.

---

We have, or at least had, a democratic republic. The Left and the Corporatists have worked hard to end that.

---

By voting? Or by storming the capitol to stop vote counting? Who did which of those two things?

---

You are awfully bitter, considering you got the government you wanted, Alzheimer's and all.

---

It's not only about getting what you want. It's about the health of the republic. Some of you have lost all sense of this.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

You are purposefully conflating different things to form a straw-man you can use to justify your own behavior. First, Mueller was a Republican, appointed by a Republican, overseen by Republicans, to investigate Republicans. That's a more favorable a draw for Special Counsel than Trump deserved. Second, the impeachment had nothing to do with 2016 (although they should have pursued obstruction if Republicans had any integrity at all). Third, saying the Russians interfered in 2016 and members of the Trump campaign coordinated with that espionage (i.e. objective facts based on clear and convincing evidence), is not the same as saying the election was "stolen" through vague accusations of fraud like Trump is doing. But, you have to conflate them as being the same, I guess for your own conscience. Despite all of that, Hillary still called to concede the very next day, did Trump ever call Biden? Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

You're so caught up in your partisan loyalty that it's forcing you to refuse any acknowledgement of inconvenient reality, so you just blanket deny anything having to do with 2016/Russia no matter what evidence exists.

Not for nothing, but we did warn you years ago that if you elected Trump it would set us down a path of destabilization, and that's the exact reason why Russia favored him in in the first place. Well, whaddya know, 4yrs of Trump and the country seems a whole lot less stable than it did before, one side has even decided they don't like democracy anymore because they only represent a minority of voters. Trump and his hardcore supporters would be more than happy to ignite the country to keep him in power (see: events of 1/6), and the party he leads is too cowardly to even call him out for it, so here we are with the Cheney situation.

Accused pedophile Matt Gaetz has a home in the GOP, but not Liz Cheney, and that should tell you all you need to know.

---

So much stupid in your post it's not worth the time it would take to point out and explain all the flaws. No surprise.

---

Try taking just one.

---

You're not worth the effort.

---

Also waiting on your answer as to what form of government you want to replace our democracy.

---

We have, or at least had, a democratic republic. The Left and the Corporatists have worked hard to end that.

---

By voting? Or by storming the capitol to stop vote counting? Who did which of those two things?

---

You are awfully bitter, considering you got the government you wanted, Alzheimer's and all.

---

It's not only about getting what you want. It's about the health of the republic. Some of you have lost all sense of this.

---

Trump is a dancing bear while the real damage is done in plain sight, and many times with Trump as an excuse. That's what I worry about.

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

You are purposefully conflating different things to form a straw-man you can use to justify your own behavior. First, Mueller was a Republican, appointed by a Republican, overseen by Republicans, to investigate Republicans. That's a more favorable a draw for Special Counsel than Trump deserved. Second, the impeachment had nothing to do with 2016 (although they should have pursued obstruction if Republicans had any integrity at all). Third, saying the Russians interfered in 2016 and members of the Trump campaign coordinated with that espionage (i.e. objective facts based on clear and convincing evidence), is not the same as saying the election was "stolen" through vague accusations of fraud like Trump is doing. But, you have to conflate them as being the same, I guess for your own conscience. Despite all of that, Hillary still called to concede the very next day, did Trump ever call Biden? Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

You're so caught up in your partisan loyalty that it's forcing you to refuse any acknowledgement of inconvenient reality, so you just blanket deny anything having to do with 2016/Russia no matter what evidence exists.

Not for nothing, but we did warn you years ago that if you elected Trump it would set us down a path of destabilization, and that's the exact reason why Russia favored him in in the first place. Well, whaddya know, 4yrs of Trump and the country seems a whole lot less stable than it did before, one side has even decided they don't like democracy anymore because they only represent a minority of voters. Trump and his hardcore supporters would be more than happy to ignite the country to keep him in power (see: events of 1/6), and the party he leads is too cowardly to even call him out for it, so here we are with the Cheney situation.

Accused pedophile Matt Gaetz has a home in the GOP, but not Liz Cheney, and that should tell you all you need to know.

---

So much stupid in your post it's not worth the time it would take to point out and explain all the flaws. No surprise.

---

Try taking just one.

---

You're not worth the effort.

---

Also waiting on your answer as to what form of government you want to replace our democracy.

---

We have, or at least had, a democratic republic. The Left and the Corporatists have worked hard to end that.

---

By voting? Or by storming the capitol to stop vote counting? Who did which of those two things?

---

You are awfully bitter, considering you got the government you wanted, Alzheimer's and all.

---

It's not only about getting what you want. It's about the health of the republic. Some of you have lost all sense of this.

---

Trump is a dancing bear while the real damage is done in plain sight, and many times with Trump as an excuse. That's what I worry about.

---

Everyone's worried about everyone else's house, never about their own.

Sam: "It's not only about getting what you want. It's about the health of the republic. Some of you have lost all sense of this."

if you really believe that, then you should support things like the vote audit going on in Arizona.

Answer the questions, put the doubts to rest.

To be clear, Joe Biden won the election once the states certified their results and the Electoral College also certified the tallies. That's the law, and no question.

But it's undeniable that Democrats did everything they could to sell Vote by Mail, with less security than any vote in the last century, changed laws in the months immediately preceding the election, in several cases in violation of the state's constitution, and there is a hell of a lot of suspicious behavior about votes which just happened to turn up in the middle of the night in certain towns where Democrats held control of the voting counts.

Trump was an idiot in how he handed a lot of things in 2020, but there are reasons to demand a serious audit into what happened.

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

---

You are purposefully conflating different things to form a straw-man you can use to justify your own behavior. First, Mueller was a Republican, appointed by a Republican, overseen by Republicans, to investigate Republicans. That's a more favorable a draw for Special Counsel than Trump deserved. Second, the impeachment had nothing to do with 2016 (although they should have pursued obstruction if Republicans had any integrity at all). Third, saying the Russians interfered in 2016 and members of the Trump campaign coordinated with that espionage (i.e. objective facts based on clear and convincing evidence), is not the same as saying the election was "stolen" through vague accusations of fraud like Trump is doing. But, you have to conflate them as being the same, I guess for your own conscience. Despite all of that, Hillary still called to concede the very next day, did Trump ever call Biden? Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

You're so caught up in your partisan loyalty that it's forcing you to refuse any acknowledgement of inconvenient reality, so you just blanket deny anything having to do with 2016/Russia no matter what evidence exists.

Not for nothing, but we did warn you years ago that if you elected Trump it would set us down a path of destabilization, and that's the exact reason why Russia favored him in in the first place. Well, whaddya know, 4yrs of Trump and the country seems a whole lot less stable than it did before, one side has even decided they don't like democracy anymore because they only represent a minority of voters. Trump and his hardcore supporters would be more than happy to ignite the country to keep him in power (see: events of 1/6), and the party he leads is too cowardly to even call him out for it, so here we are with the Cheney situation.

Accused pedophile Matt Gaetz has a home in the GOP, but not Liz Cheney, and that should tell you all you need to know.

---

So much stupid in your post it's not worth the time it would take to point out and explain all the flaws. No surprise.

---

Try taking just one.

---

You're not worth the effort.

---

Also waiting on your answer as to what form of government you want to replace our democracy.

---

We have, or at least had, a democratic republic. The Left and the Corporatists have worked hard to end that.

---

By voting? Or by storming the capitol to stop vote counting? Who did which of those two things?

---

You are awfully bitter, considering you got the government you wanted, Alzheimer's and all.

---

It's not only about getting what you want. It's about the health of the republic. Some of you have lost all sense of this.

---

Trump is a dancing bear while the real damage is done in plain sight, and many times with Trump as an excuse. That's what I worry about.

---

Everyone's worried about everyone else's house, never about their own.

---

It's sound judgement to worry far more about the neighbors setting fire to half the houses on the block than to your uncle who lights a poop bag on a porch on Halloween. Democrat mass arson is the real concern.

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Booray said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

curtpenn said:

---

HuMcK said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Canon said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

I'm shocked a Republican is saying this. Standing on principle is something I thought the GOP abandoned long ago. Valuing America might not be popular on either side, but at least here is 1 politician who does.

---

And we will cast her out for calling out Trump

---

If she's cast out, it will be for putting personality above policy, largely in a bid to stem the loss of power establishment republicans, like her, Romney, etc., were experiencing. She sided with Democrats to take down her internal political party opponents by casting them as immoral....which is like a cobra chastising a rattle snake for being poisonous.

The key takeaway is that she sided with Democrats. She sided with a truly antiAmerican party to try and shore up her power. She needs to go.

---

She sided with the Constitution, not party. You put loyalty to Trump above all principle

---

She did not. She sided with an outright lie. I'm loyal to no politician.

---

Trump says the election was stolen. That is the lie. To ignore Trump's statements is to abet the big lie

---

Democrats said the election was stolen for 4 years and you only get upset when a republican does it. Your true colors are showing. The Democrats normalized that talk. Trump, as ever, played their game by their rules and they/you got upset he did. You lost your voice when you failed to use it for four years.

---

Democrats who said the 2016 election was stolen weren't taken seriously. Nobody paid any attention to Clinton. There was no reason to get upset.

---

A Special Counsel was established and we spent Millions of dollars investigating the claims. The House impeached the President taking him to the brink of removal. How is that not being taken seriously?

People still believe vehemently that the Russians stole the election for Trump and were so fearful of it they coordinated with private companies to combat misinformation during the 2020 election.

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You are purposefully conflating different things to form a straw-man you can use to justify your own behavior. First, Mueller was a Republican, appointed by a Republican, overseen by Republicans, to investigate Republicans. That's a more favorable a draw for Special Counsel than Trump deserved. Second, the impeachment had nothing to do with 2016 (although they should have pursued obstruction if Republicans had any integrity at all). Third, saying the Russians interfered in 2016 and members of the Trump campaign coordinated with that espionage (i.e. objective facts based on clear and convincing evidence), is not the same as saying the election was "stolen" through vague accusations of fraud like Trump is doing. But, you have to conflate them as being the same, I guess for your own conscience. Despite all of that, Hillary still called to concede the very next day, did Trump ever call Biden? Did Dem states immediately begin passing laws to change the rules in their favor like Republicans are doing now?

You're so caught up in your partisan loyalty that it's forcing you to refuse any acknowledgement of inconvenient reality, so you just blanket deny anything having to do with 2016/Russia no matter what evidence exists.

Not for nothing, but we did warn you years ago that if you elected Trump it would set us down a path of destabilization, and that's the exact reason why Russia favored him in in the first place. Well, whaddya know, 4yrs of Trump and the country seems a whole lot less stable than it did before, one side has even decided they don't like democracy anymore because they only represent a minority of voters. Trump and his hardcore supporters would be more than happy to ignite the country to keep him in power (see: events of 1/6), and the party he leads is too cowardly to even call him out for it, so here we are with the Cheney situation.

Accused pedophile Matt Gaetz has a home in the GOP, but not Liz Cheney, and that should tell you all you need to know.

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So much stupid in your post it's not worth the time it would take to point out and explain all the flaws. No surprise.

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Try taking just one.

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You're not worth the effort.

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Also waiting on your answer as to what form of government you want to replace our democracy.

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We have, or at least had, a democratic republic. The Left and the Corporatists have worked hard to end that.

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By voting? Or by storming the capitol to stop vote counting? Who did which of those two things?

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You are awfully bitter, considering you got the government you wanted, Alzheimer's and all.

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It's not only about getting what you want. It's about the health of the republic. Some of you have lost all sense of this.

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Trump is a dancing bear while the real damage is done in plain sight, and many times with Trump as an excuse. That's what I worry about.

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Everyone's worried about everyone else's house, never about their own.

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Trump isn't sneaking up on anyone.

Oldbear83 said:

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Sam: "It's not only about getting what you want. It's about the health of the republic. Some of you have lost all sense of this."

if you really believe that, then you should support things like the vote audit going on in Arizona.

Answer the questions, put the doubts to rest.

To be clear, Joe Biden won the election once the states certified their results and the Electoral College also certified the tallies. That's the law, and no question.

But it's undeniable that Democrats did everything they could to sell Vote by Mail, with less security than any vote in the last century, changed laws in the months immediately preceding the election, in several cases in violation of the state's constitution, and there is a hell of a lot of suspicious behavior about votes which just happened to turn up in the middle of the night in certain towns where Democrats held control of the voting counts.

Trump was an idiot in how he handed a lot of things in 2020, but there are reasons to demand a serious audit into what happened.

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This is the third audit of Maricopa County. The first two done by professionals, this one conducted by nitwits. Georgia recounted twice, looking at every ballot by hand. Courts were available in about 60 cases filed by Trump and associates and they could not produce any proof. Sydney Powell promised for weeks on end that she had jaw dropping evidence that would blow it all open, now she just hides.

The election "contest" is a carnival freak show. But it keeps rubes entertained.

No reason, whatsoever, not to cheer this on and settle the matter.

Interesting to see the desperation and anger on the Left about this, if all their claims are true.