good chart. Most of the no's and ob's are 4th world countries.Redbrickbear said:
Good rough estimate internationally of who is on the side of Ukraine and who is on the side of Russia.
Ukraine invaded by Putin
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DancinBear09 said:ScruffyD said:
this does not have to be such a d!ck measuring contest.
a lot of things brought us to today, plenty of "blame" to go around, for lack of a better word.
what we should do is be unified as a country in our support for another democracy.
that didn't used to be so hard.
Yep, that's what Patriotism used to look like before it turned into a bumper sticker slogan on a F-250 w/ truck nuts.
Yea it was those badie working class right wingers with their truck bumper stickers that polarized America.
Not the corporate press, Hollywood, and academia.
Russia is winning, Russia is losing, Fog of War, Propaganda, etc.
One thing for sure... oil and commodities are surging in an environment where we already had high inflation
Russian Fleet Approach Has Ukraine's Port City of Odesa Bracing Marc Champion - 3h ago
One thing for sure... oil and commodities are surging in an environment where we already had high inflation
Russian Fleet Approach Has Ukraine's Port City of Odesa Bracing Marc Champion - 3h ago
Quote:
(Bloomberg) -- With a naval fleet reported near the Ukrainian city of Odesa and the city of Kherson taken, it's increasingly clear that Russia's invasion is gaining pace in the country's open and hard-to-defend coastal plains, even as its advance is slowed in the north.
Most Read from Bloomberg
Along with Russia's shift to more aggressive artillery and aerial attacks on urban centers, that is tempering optimism over Ukraine's ability to sustain its so far effective organized resistance against a superior force.
"We are now in for the long haul and Russia is reorganizing itself to ensure that it wins this war," according to Keir Giles, senior consulting fellow for the Russia and Eurasia program at Chatham House, who spoke on a webinar. "So the implications of the Russian way of war is that we need to prepare now for humanitarian catastrophe."
In the entire service life of the Abrams tank (over 30yrs), we have lost 23 in combat and a few of those were friendly fire.
After 1 week, #Russia's visually-confirmed losses in #Ukraine are staggering:
— Charles Lister (@Charles_Lister) March 3, 2022
- 60 tanks
- 176 armored vehicles
- 30 comms/engineering vehicles
- 33 artillery systems
- 20 air defense systems
- 4 fighter jets
- 7 helicopters
- 179 trucks & jeepshttps://t.co/1EXlD8OokA
The Biden Administration will gladly buy oil from Iran and Russia.
— Tom Cotton (@TomCottonAR) March 3, 2022
But they banned new drilling leases in America. https://t.co/3Egv6z3Cre
This is just an amazing act of defiance. In one video these leaders are demonstrating that: their democracy still stands, they do not fear congregating, they will defend their democratic values. https://t.co/iWkXLAcr0W
— Cortney Weinbaum (@cortney_dc) March 3, 2022
NEW: Both Georgia and Moldova apply to join the European Union.
— Brian Tyler Cohen (@briantylercohen) March 3, 2022
Video shared on Ukrainian channels of a captured Russian soldier apparently being fed by locals. The post says he burst into tears when he was allowed to video-call his mother. So many of these troops are just teenagers, with absolutely no clue what this war is really for. pic.twitter.com/oCPUC8cKcO
— Matthew Luxmoore (@mjluxmoore) March 2, 2022
This this is brilliant psychological warfare (see post above for video). Might be staged, might not, but brilliant for sure.
Russian captive soldiers cry for their mothers
Ukraine has invited Russian women to come to Kyiv and collect their sons, many of whom appear to be inexperienced and frightened teenage conscripts
In a field surrounded by the people he had been sent to fight, a young Russian prisoner of war hungrily gulped down the tea and bread they offered him.
A Ukrainian woman calmed him, telling the soldier not to worry. Using her phone, she made a video call to his mother. As soon as his mother appeared on the screen, he burst into tears.
"Everything is OK," his female captor said, while others stroked his back. "Natasha, God be with you. We will call you later. He is alive and healthy."
Video of the incident has circulated on Ukrainian and Russian social media channels, and has been hailed as an example of human compassion in wartime.
Numerous other clips, apparently showing Russian prisoners of war
Russian captive soldiers cry for their mothers
Ukraine has invited Russian women to come to Kyiv and collect their sons, many of whom appear to be inexperienced and frightened teenage conscripts
In a field surrounded by the people he had been sent to fight, a young Russian prisoner of war hungrily gulped down the tea and bread they offered him.
A Ukrainian woman calmed him, telling the soldier not to worry. Using her phone, she made a video call to his mother. As soon as his mother appeared on the screen, he burst into tears.
"Everything is OK," his female captor said, while others stroked his back. "Natasha, God be with you. We will call you later. He is alive and healthy."
Video of the incident has circulated on Ukrainian and Russian social media channels, and has been hailed as an example of human compassion in wartime.
Numerous other clips, apparently showing Russian prisoners of war
Ok, now what? NATO turns them down to not upset Putin. Then, Putin will say "Wow, they listened". "Roll the tanks anyway, schmucks!"jupiter said:This is just an amazing act of defiance. In one video these leaders are demonstrating that: their democracy still stands, they do not fear congregating, they will defend their democratic values. https://t.co/iWkXLAcr0W
— Cortney Weinbaum (@cortney_dc) March 3, 2022
I don't think there is much choice other than perpetual war.RMF5630 said:Ok, now what? NATO turns them down to not upset Putin. Then, Putin will say "Wow, they listened". "Roll the tanks anyway, schmucks!"jupiter said:This is just an amazing act of defiance. In one video these leaders are demonstrating that: their democracy still stands, they do not fear congregating, they will defend their democratic values. https://t.co/iWkXLAcr0W
— Cortney Weinbaum (@cortney_dc) March 3, 2022
Any state based in Moscow is never going to accept a US-EU-NATO aligned Ukraine or Belarus.
Imprisoned Tsar Nicholas said about the treaty to end WWI, "I would cut off my own hands before I would ever sign such an infamous peace"
Russian policy on its borders has been remarkably consistent from Russian Empire to USSR to Russian Federation.
The Regime changes...but the policy goals remain the same.
We have been through Christian Tsar, to Jewish Bolshevik, to Georgian Communist, to agnostic FSB goon...all had the same goals.
If you're referring to Lenin that is quite a stretch.Redbrickbear said:We have been through Christian Tsar, to Jewish Bolshevik, to Georgian Communist, to agnostic FSB goon...all had the same goals.RMF5630 said:Ok, now what? NATO turns them down to not upset Putin. Then, Putin will say "Wow, they listened". "Roll the tanks anyway, schmucks!"jupiter said:This is just an amazing act of defiance. In one video these leaders are demonstrating that: their democracy still stands, they do not fear congregating, they will defend their democratic values. https://t.co/iWkXLAcr0W
— Cortney Weinbaum (@cortney_dc) March 3, 2022
Russian oil bidless, non-Russian oil offerless https://t.co/2n6o258AGE
— zerohedge (@zerohedge) March 3, 2022
JPM notes that "as the Russian invasion entered its seventh day on Wednesday, Russian cargoes have become toxic for the majority of the Western trading houses, refineries, utilities, shippers, banks, ports and insurers. As of today, almost 70% of Russian oil is struggling to find buyers."
The reasons include logistics, where a large number of oil tanker owners are taking a caution-first approach until the full picture on sanctions is clear. Big international energy consumers are also mindful about reputational damage if they handle Russian barrels. Some have moral objections.
JPMorgan then repeats what Goldman said over the weekend, arguing that given the supply shock and barring a breakthrough in peace negotiations, an immediate demand destruction is the only way to rebalance the market in the short term.
In 2014, NATO's secretary general revealed Russia was funding climate activists, saying, “Russia... engaged actively with so-called nongovernmental organizations working against shale gas to maintain dependence on imported Russian gas"
— Michael Shellenberger (@ShellenbergerMD) March 3, 2022
Nobody listened.https://t.co/JJtn2hLNjB
Last fall, I was one of the first journalists to document how climate activists had effectively reduced private and public investment in oil and gas production, through a propaganda effort called "ESG," directly contributing to the global energy crisis.https://t.co/Dmye5OFJ6Y
— Michael Shellenberger (@ShellenbergerMD) March 3, 2022
Everything the left touches turns to crap. Everything.Jacques Strap said:In 2014, NATO's secretary general revealed Russia was funding climate activists, saying, “Russia... engaged actively with so-called nongovernmental organizations working against shale gas to maintain dependence on imported Russian gas"
— Michael Shellenberger (@ShellenbergerMD) March 3, 2022
Nobody listened.https://t.co/JJtn2hLNjBLast fall, I was one of the first journalists to document how climate activists had effectively reduced private and public investment in oil and gas production, through a propaganda effort called "ESG," directly contributing to the global energy crisis.https://t.co/Dmye5OFJ6Y
— Michael Shellenberger (@ShellenbergerMD) March 3, 2022
People need to understand they dont have failed policies - the left is at war with America and until the rest of the usa acknowledges that fact, we will continue to lose and suffer. It will get worse from here - a lot worse.
Meanwhile the full weight of the Russian military is being brought to bear.
Unless something drastic happens ......Ukraine's defenses will collapse within a couple of weeks.
Unless something drastic happens ......Ukraine's defenses will collapse within a couple of weeks.
Meanwhile, China is buying up tons of cheap Russian oil right now through their own swift system.
ATL Bear said:
Meanwhile, China is buying up tons of cheap Russian oil right now through their own swift system.
China will try to use this to attack the dollars reserve currency status. Not saying they will be successful, but articles are starting to appear.
Thousands of people in Berlin have gone to the central train station to offer fleeing Ukrainians a place to stay. Really moving. pic.twitter.com/OReuMnHcfk
— Marcel Dirsus (@marceldirsus) March 3, 2022
RMF5630 said:ATL Bear said:
Meanwhile, China is buying up tons of cheap Russian oil right now through their own swift system.
China will try to use this to attack the dollars reserve currency status. Not saying they will be successful, but articles are starting to appear.
We have been horrible stewards. It inevitably will happen.
⚡️Zelensky: “We will rebuild, every house, every street, every city.”
— Oleksiy Sorokin (@mrsorokaa) March 3, 2022
“We say to Russia, learn the words reparation and contribution, you’ll repay us everything.”
#Ukraine#Corn 🌽
— Darin D. Fessler 🇺🇸 (@DDFalpha) February 27, 2022
🔸16% of world exports
🔸3% of world production #Wheat 🌾
🔸12% of world exports
🔸4% of world production #Sunflowers 🌻
🔸31% of world production
▫️#1 producer in world
🔸9% of world exports pic.twitter.com/wnOezCjxIs
Canada2017 said:
Meanwhile the full weight of the Russian military is being brought to bear.
We would crush them in 2-3 weeks. I don't want war. I don't want Americans dying for what amounts to a spat between former partners…but we would destroy their entire fighting force the way we did with Iraq and it wouldn't take much longer either.
However, I prefer not have that fight because if it comes to that it means all of Asia is at war and I have no doubt the nuclear option would be in play.
These aren't Soviet forces of the Cold War.
Russia now assaulting one of the main active nuclear facilities that powers 1/4 of Ukraine… if that thing goes south.. I'm not sure now what happens next.
BUBear24 said:
Russia now assaulting one of the main active nuclear facilities that powers 1/4 of Ukraine… if that thing goes south.. I'm not sure now what happens next.
Joe Biden and Kamala get ice cream.
Exactly how are you going to get fully battle ready divisions shipped across the Atlantic in 2-3 weeks ? The buildup prior to Desert Storm took MONTHS .nein51 said:Canada2017 said:
Meanwhile the full weight of the Russian military is being brought to bear.
We would crush them in 2-3 weeks. I don't want war. I don't want Americans dying for what amounts to a spat between former partners…but we would destroy their entire fighting force the way we did with Iraq and it wouldn't take much longer either.
How many divisions do you think we even have ? Going to strip every soldier out of South Korea ? Even then......the most we could muster is 7 divisions . Even then they would be horribly outnumbered .
Really believe the massive Russian submarine fleet will just sit idly by while all our troop transports sail to Europe ?
How long do you think it would take for the USAF to mass enough jet fighters to the battle zone . Really think the Russian air force will let them deploy unopposed ?
Is there a Brutus in Russia? Is there a more successful Colonel Stauffenberg in the Russian military?
— Lindsey Graham (@LindseyGrahamSC) March 4, 2022
The only way this ends is for somebody in Russia to take this guy out.
You would be doing your country - and the world - a great service.
just fyi it got reported today with the additions we have 90K in troops in Europe right now.Canada2017 said:Exactly how are you going to get fully battle ready divisions shipped across the Atlantic in 2-3 weeks ? The buildup prior to Desert Storm took MONTHS .nein51 said:Canada2017 said:
Meanwhile the full weight of the Russian military is being brought to bear.
We would crush them in 2-3 weeks. I don't want war. I don't want Americans dying for what amounts to a spat between former partners…but we would destroy their entire fighting force the way we did with Iraq and it wouldn't take much longer either.
How many divisions do you think we even have ? Going to strip every soldier out of South Korea ? Even then......the most we could muster is 7 divisions . Even then they would be horribly outnumbered .
Really believe the massive Russian submarine fleet will just sit idly by while all our troop transports sail to Europe ?
How long do you think it would take for the USAF to mass enough jet fighters to the battle zone . Really think the Russian air force will let them deploy unopposed ?
As for the comments above, taking aside the crazy man's nuke option, you wouldn't need massive ground forces. The fact Ukrainians are knocking out Russian aircraft with mostly Soviet age antiaircraft weaponry means we'd truly win the sky in a few days, and from there the Russian armor is no different from Iraqi last time they had time to lay in the sky all day. Ukraine knows with that they'd mop up the ground themselves. It's why their president wants a no fly zone so badly.
A. Link to this report of 90,000 troops please.BUBear24 said:just fyi it got reported today with the additions we have 90K in troops in Europe right now.Canada2017 said:Exactly how are you going to get fully battle ready divisions shipped across the Atlantic in 2-3 weeks ? The buildup prior to Desert Storm took MONTHS .nein51 said:Canada2017 said:
Meanwhile the full weight of the Russian military is being brought to bear.
We would crush them in 2-3 weeks. I don't want war. I don't want Americans dying for what amounts to a spat between former partners…but we would destroy their entire fighting force the way we did with Iraq and it wouldn't take much longer either.
How many divisions do you think we even have ? Going to strip every soldier out of South Korea ? Even then......the most we could muster is 7 divisions . Even then they would be horribly outnumbered .
Really believe the massive Russian submarine fleet will just sit idly by while all our troop transports sail to Europe ?
How long do you think it would take for the USAF to mass enough jet fighters to the battle zone . Really think the Russian air force will let them deploy unopposed ?
As for the comments above, taking aside the crazy man's nuke option, you wouldn't need massive ground forces. The fact Ukrainians are knocking out Russian aircraft with mostly Soviet age antiaircraft weaponry means we'd truly win the sky in a few days, and from there the Russian armor is no different from Iraqi last time they had time to lay in the sky all day. Ukraine knows with that they'd mop up the ground themselves. It's why their president wants a no fly zone so badly.
B. Just how many are combat troops ?
C. If they are primarily hospital staff, quartermasters and a division of relatively lightly armed paratroopers ...the numbers don't mean **** .
D. Again ......the Russian Air Force is First Rate. Comparing then to Iraq in terms of training, numbers, and quality of combat aircraft is ridiculous . Most importantly Russian air bases are far closer to the battlefield . Which means each jet can linger over the battlefield far longer before they have to re fuel .
Canada2017 said:A. Link to this report of 90,000 troops please.BUBear24 said:just fyi it got reported today with the additions we have 90K in troops in Europe right now.Canada2017 said:Exactly how are you going to get fully battle ready divisions shipped across the Atlantic in 2-3 weeks ? The buildup prior to Desert Storm took MONTHS .nein51 said:Canada2017 said:
Meanwhile the full weight of the Russian military is being brought to bear.
We would crush them in 2-3 weeks. I don't want war. I don't want Americans dying for what amounts to a spat between former partners…but we would destroy their entire fighting force the way we did with Iraq and it wouldn't take much longer either.
How many divisions do you think we even have ? Going to strip every soldier out of South Korea ? Even then......the most we could muster is 7 divisions . Even then they would be horribly outnumbered .
Really believe the massive Russian submarine fleet will just sit idly by while all our troop transports sail to Europe ?
How long do you think it would take for the USAF to mass enough jet fighters to the battle zone . Really think the Russian air force will let them deploy unopposed ?
As for the comments above, taking aside the crazy man's nuke option, you wouldn't need massive ground forces. The fact Ukrainians are knocking out Russian aircraft with mostly Soviet age antiaircraft weaponry means we'd truly win the sky in a few days, and from there the Russian armor is no different from Iraqi last time they had time to lay in the sky all day. Ukraine knows with that they'd mop up the ground themselves. It's why their president wants a no fly zone so badly.
B. Just how many are combat troops ?
C. If they are primarily hospital staff, quartermasters and a division of relatively lightly armed paratroopers ...the numbers don't mean **** .
D. Again ......the Russian Air Force is First Rate. Comparing then to Iraq in terms of training, numbers, and quality of combat aircraft is ridiculous . Most importantly Russian air bases are far closer to the battlefield . Which means each jet can linger over the battlefield far longer before they have to re fuel .
A. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/us/politics/us-troops-deploy-europe.html
Just grabbed the first one I saw on google. I've been watching reading so much I don't remember which article I read.
B. Say 50,000 are only combat. Again if it's a hypo where no one else but US/Russia/Ukraine is involved, then Ukraine is still going to be your main fighting force. And the 1st armored division is already over there so I know we have armor on the ground that can love quickly. If your going to be do a WW3 scenario I'll still play but different game.
C. see above
D. This is not true so far as it seems to me. They seem to be having a worse time dealing with a lot of the same Soviet era anti aircraft weaponry(ironically made by them) than we ever did in Iraq. I you could have sheer numbers, but do I think all 1,000 of those Russians planes work? Hell no, not after looking at some of the mechanical issues their armor has been facing. Some of that is being attributed to lack of maintenance. I can imagine their air fleet wouldn't be any different. But if we're bringing in our anti aa imparted to russias S300 systems that we've beaten in the past too, it tips in our favor to me.
I don't want us involved at all for what it's worth. I think this is Russias Afghanistan 2.0, only deadlier and its going to crush Putin, his legacy, and I think his life honestly, he may have to "retire" but I don't see any victory coming out of this for him. I think the insurgency is going to be beyond anything imagined.
if russia does gain control over the entire country - wh/ seems to be the plan now - the insurgency might take a while.BUBear24 said:Canada2017 said:A. Link to this report of 90,000 troops please.BUBear24 said:just fyi it got reported today with the additions we have 90K in troops in Europe right now.Canada2017 said:Exactly how are you going to get fully battle ready divisions shipped across the Atlantic in 2-3 weeks ? The buildup prior to Desert Storm took MONTHS .nein51 said:Canada2017 said:
Meanwhile the full weight of the Russian military is being brought to bear.
We would crush them in 2-3 weeks. I don't want war. I don't want Americans dying for what amounts to a spat between former partners…but we would destroy their entire fighting force the way we did with Iraq and it wouldn't take much longer either.
How many divisions do you think we even have ? Going to strip every soldier out of South Korea ? Even then......the most we could muster is 7 divisions . Even then they would be horribly outnumbered .
Really believe the massive Russian submarine fleet will just sit idly by while all our troop transports sail to Europe ?
How long do you think it would take for the USAF to mass enough jet fighters to the battle zone . Really think the Russian air force will let them deploy unopposed ?
As for the comments above, taking aside the crazy man's nuke option, you wouldn't need massive ground forces. The fact Ukrainians are knocking out Russian aircraft with mostly Soviet age antiaircraft weaponry means we'd truly win the sky in a few days, and from there the Russian armor is no different from Iraqi last time they had time to lay in the sky all day. Ukraine knows with that they'd mop up the ground themselves. It's why their president wants a no fly zone so badly.
B. Just how many are combat troops ?
C. If they are primarily hospital staff, quartermasters and a division of relatively lightly armed paratroopers ...the numbers don't mean **** .
D. Again ......the Russian Air Force is First Rate. Comparing then to Iraq in terms of training, numbers, and quality of combat aircraft is ridiculous . Most importantly Russian air bases are far closer to the battlefield . Which means each jet can linger over the battlefield far longer before they have to re fuel .
A. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/us/politics/us-troops-deploy-europe.html
Just grabbed the first one I saw on google. I've been watching reading so much I don't remember which article I read.
B. Say 50,000 are only combat. Again if it's a hypo where no one else but US/Russia/Ukraine is involved, then Ukraine is still going to be your main fighting force. And the 1st armored division is already over there so I know we have armor on the ground that can love quickly. If your going to be do a WW3 scenario I'll still play but different game.
C. see above
D. This is not true so far as it seems to me. They seem to be having a worse time dealing with a lot of the same Soviet era anti aircraft weaponry(ironically made by them) than we ever did in Iraq. I you could have sheer numbers, but do I think all 1,000 of those Russians planes work? Hell no, not after looking at some of the mechanical issues their armor has been facing. Some of that is being attributed to lack of maintenance. I can imagine their air fleet wouldn't be any different. But if we're bringing in our anti aa imparted to russias S300 systems that we've beaten in the past too, it tips in our favor to me.
I don't want us involved at all for what it's worth. I think this is Russias Afghanistan 2.0, only deadlier and its going to crush Putin, his legacy, and I think his life honestly, he may have to "retire" but I don't see any victory coming out of this for him. I think the insurgency is going to be beyond anything imagined.
it will happen eventually (10 years) - but without arms no real revolution can happen in the near term.
- KKM
the only hope is that the economics and the battle losses get so bad here soon that russia no choice but to work a deal - given putin's monomania re: ukraine I just dont see that happening.
and longer term - europe would be wise to move to 5th gen nuclear power.
but russia will still have china and india to sell their petro to. enough to keep them going for quite a while.
looks like a stalemate is the best outcome.
and india will find out soon enough that they are the odd man out. china and russia will screw them over.
Go Bears!
Putin has this battle all but won . Ukraine is on the verge of collapse .BUBear24 said:Canada2017 said:A. Link to this report of 90,000 troops please.BUBear24 said:just fyi it got reported today with the additions we have 90K in troops in Europe right now.Canada2017 said:Exactly how are you going to get fully battle ready divisions shipped across the Atlantic in 2-3 weeks ? The buildup prior to Desert Storm took MONTHS .nein51 said:Canada2017 said:
Meanwhile the full weight of the Russian military is being brought to bear.
We would crush them in 2-3 weeks. I don't want war. I don't want Americans dying for what amounts to a spat between former partners…but we would destroy their entire fighting force the way we did with Iraq and it wouldn't take much longer either.
How many divisions do you think we even have ? Going to strip every soldier out of South Korea ? Even then......the most we could muster is 7 divisions . Even then they would be horribly outnumbered .
Really believe the massive Russian submarine fleet will just sit idly by while all our troop transports sail to Europe ?
How long do you think it would take for the USAF to mass enough jet fighters to the battle zone . Really think the Russian air force will let them deploy unopposed ?
As for the comments above, taking aside the crazy man's nuke option, you wouldn't need massive ground forces. The fact Ukrainians are knocking out Russian aircraft with mostly Soviet age antiaircraft weaponry means we'd truly win the sky in a few days, and from there the Russian armor is no different from Iraqi last time they had time to lay in the sky all day. Ukraine knows with that they'd mop up the ground themselves. It's why their president wants a no fly zone so badly.
B. Just how many are combat troops ?
C. If they are primarily hospital staff, quartermasters and a division of relatively lightly armed paratroopers ...the numbers don't mean **** .
D. Again ......the Russian Air Force is First Rate. Comparing then to Iraq in terms of training, numbers, and quality of combat aircraft is ridiculous . Most importantly Russian air bases are far closer to the battlefield . Which means each jet can linger over the battlefield far longer before they have to re fuel .
A. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/us/politics/us-troops-deploy-europe.html
Just grabbed the first one I saw on google. I've been watching reading so much I don't remember which article I read.
B. Say 50,000 are only combat. Again if it's a hypo where no one else but US/Russia/Ukraine is involved, then Ukraine is still going to be your main fighting force. And the 1st armored division is already over there so I know we have armor on the ground that can love quickly. If your going to be do a WW3 scenario I'll still play but different game.
C. see above
D. This is not true so far as it seems to me. They seem to be having a worse time dealing with a lot of the same Soviet era anti aircraft weaponry(ironically made by them) than we ever did in Iraq. I you could have sheer numbers, but do I think all 1,000 of those Russians planes work? Hell no, not after looking at some of the mechanical issues their armor has been facing. Some of that is being attributed to lack of maintenance. I can imagine their air fleet wouldn't be any different. But if we're bringing in our anti aa imparted to russias S300 systems that we've beaten in the past too, it tips in our favor to me.
I don't want us involved at all for what it's worth. I think this is Russias Afghanistan 2.0, only deadlier and its going to crush Putin, his legacy, and I think his life honestly, he may have to "retire" but I don't see any victory coming out of this for him. I think the insurgency is going to be beyond anything imagined.
We don't have anything approaching 50,000 troops in Europe....and much fewer legitimate combat troops.
Only a couple of regiments of the 1st armored division are in Europe. The rest are still in the states. Would take months to transport enough heavy weapons to make any kind of impact. And Putin isn't an idiot...he will attack before we could possibly match his forces.
Our navy is the best in the world ....possibly our Air Force as well . But they are spread all over the world . In eastern Europe Russia has the dominant conventional force ...by far .
We need to face reality and WALK AWAY from this .
Pentagon studying fallback supply lines to Ukraine ahead of expanded Russian invasion https://t.co/OSLkkOBtWh
— Madame Lulu 🇺🇦🌼 (@RouraLourdes) February 28, 2022
You say Putin isn't an idiot but he'd start a war with 30 countries because of a buildup? A war that he admitted he can't win with or without nukes? Sounds like something an idiot would do to me.Canada2017 said:Putin has this battle all but won . Ukraine is on the verge of collapse .BUBear24 said:Canada2017 said:A. Link to this report of 90,000 troops please.BUBear24 said:just fyi it got reported today with the additions we have 90K in troops in Europe right now.Canada2017 said:Exactly how are you going to get fully battle ready divisions shipped across the Atlantic in 2-3 weeks ? The buildup prior to Desert Storm took MONTHS .nein51 said:Canada2017 said:
Meanwhile the full weight of the Russian military is being brought to bear.
We would crush them in 2-3 weeks. I don't want war. I don't want Americans dying for what amounts to a spat between former partners…but we would destroy their entire fighting force the way we did with Iraq and it wouldn't take much longer either.
How many divisions do you think we even have ? Going to strip every soldier out of South Korea ? Even then......the most we could muster is 7 divisions . Even then they would be horribly outnumbered .
Really believe the massive Russian submarine fleet will just sit idly by while all our troop transports sail to Europe ?
How long do you think it would take for the USAF to mass enough jet fighters to the battle zone . Really think the Russian air force will let them deploy unopposed ?
As for the comments above, taking aside the crazy man's nuke option, you wouldn't need massive ground forces. The fact Ukrainians are knocking out Russian aircraft with mostly Soviet age antiaircraft weaponry means we'd truly win the sky in a few days, and from there the Russian armor is no different from Iraqi last time they had time to lay in the sky all day. Ukraine knows with that they'd mop up the ground themselves. It's why their president wants a no fly zone so badly.
B. Just how many are combat troops ?
C. If they are primarily hospital staff, quartermasters and a division of relatively lightly armed paratroopers ...the numbers don't mean **** .
D. Again ......the Russian Air Force is First Rate. Comparing then to Iraq in terms of training, numbers, and quality of combat aircraft is ridiculous . Most importantly Russian air bases are far closer to the battlefield . Which means each jet can linger over the battlefield far longer before they have to re fuel .
A. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/24/us/politics/us-troops-deploy-europe.html
Just grabbed the first one I saw on google. I've been watching reading so much I don't remember which article I read.
B. Say 50,000 are only combat. Again if it's a hypo where no one else but US/Russia/Ukraine is involved, then Ukraine is still going to be your main fighting force. And the 1st armored division is already over there so I know we have armor on the ground that can love quickly. If your going to be do a WW3 scenario I'll still play but different game.
C. see above
D. This is not true so far as it seems to me. They seem to be having a worse time dealing with a lot of the same Soviet era anti aircraft weaponry(ironically made by them) than we ever did in Iraq. I you could have sheer numbers, but do I think all 1,000 of those Russians planes work? Hell no, not after looking at some of the mechanical issues their armor has been facing. Some of that is being attributed to lack of maintenance. I can imagine their air fleet wouldn't be any different. But if we're bringing in our anti aa imparted to russias S300 systems that we've beaten in the past too, it tips in our favor to me.
I don't want us involved at all for what it's worth. I think this is Russias Afghanistan 2.0, only deadlier and its going to crush Putin, his legacy, and I think his life honestly, he may have to "retire" but I don't see any victory coming out of this for him. I think the insurgency is going to be beyond anything imagined.
We don't have anything approaching 50,000 troops in Europe....and much fewer legitimate combat troops.
Only a couple of regiments of the 1st armored division are in Europe. The rest are still in the states. Would take months to transport enough heavy weapons to make any kind of impact. And Putin isn't an idiot...he will attack before we could possibly match his forces.
Our navy is the best in the world ....possibly our Air Force as well . But they are spread all over the world . In eastern Europe Russia has the dominant conventional force ...by far .
We need to face reality and WALK AWAY from this .