Ukraine invaded by Putin

68,244 Views | 1093 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by HuMcK
boognish_bear
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Redbrickbear
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DancinBear09 said:

ShooterTX said:

DancinBear09 said:

RMF5630 said:

ShooterTX said:

This is so ridiculous.
Putin takes Crimea under the weak Obama.
Putin invades Ukraine under the weak Biden.
Yet there are morons who believe that Trump was weak??

In a few months, Xi will begin his move on Taiwan. Then he will look at Indonesia and Malaysia. He will claim to be going there to bring stability to the chaos.

I doubt Putin will directly invade a NATO ally, but that really depends upon how sleepy Joe responds to Ukraine. If he continues to project weakness, then Putin might go after the Czech Republic, Serbia, and some other eastern block nations.

It won't be a World War if Biden just rolls over like Chamberlain did in the 1930s... which sounds like the most likely scenario.

This is what happens when you eject a moron who claims that white supremacy and climate change are the greatest threats to America. Biden is either a fool, or evil... take your pick. Either he was too stupid to recognize the true threats, or he is an evil ******* who lied about the true threats.
Either way, democrats have given us this disaster when they voted for this idiot.





Yeah Putin owned Trump? Didn't see tanks roll on his watch.
I think Putin will challenge NATO commitment in a lithuania and then other Baltic states. Poland i think is a bridge too far.

I think Putin saw somewhat of ally in Trump (in a way unbeknownst to Trump). I feel Putin' plan was to play into Trump's narcissistic pathology by providing complements and "buddying up" to Trump in an effort to manipulate Trump's influence on NATO and the rest of the European PMs to get them to cool down or kill discussions about Ukraine joining NATO. That never ended up happening, Biden became president, and I imagine he saw Biden as somewhat of a weak enough leader to where he could flex his military might with little to no military reprisal from the West. Make no mistake about it though, this is 30 years in the making. Ukraine has slowly been gravitating towards Western influence for years. The have been begging to join NATO, they ousted a Russian loyalist PM out of office, and the West has not denied The possibility of Ukraine's admittance into NATO. Putin sees this as a huge threat and feels this is is last option.



Revisionist history.
The closest Ukraine came to joining NATO was before Trump. By the time Trump came to office, Putin already had Crimea. Trump was doing all he could to keep Putin contained, but by that time Ukraine was split on the idea of joining NATO. Many in Ukraine believed joining would antagonize Russia, and lead to a full invasion and full war. Many in Ukraine didn't want their nation to become the battle front for WW3... they would rather hope for peaceful coexistence with Russia. That worked for a few years, until America "elected" one of the weakest presidents in history.
Now Putin faces no resistance, and can easily gain ground & resources. He also gains a huge bargaining chip for the next round of negotiations with the west.
Obama made it possible to take Crimea and now Biden makes it possible to take Ukraine. Trump was a deterrent while he was in office. The idea that Putin liked Trump is stupid. Putin gained nothing under Trump... how was that good for him?

The annexation of Crimea was a direct response to the ouster of Yanukovych after he refused to sign a very popular trade agreement w/ the EU in Feb of 2014. As for Trump, he is pathologically susceptible to manipulation through flattery. It's been shown time and time again he will do things for you if you shower him w/ praise. Putin was hopeful that Trump would help him w/ the EU/NATO on Ukraine and Trump didn't press the issue.



Aliceinbubbleland
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DancinBear09 said:

Quote:

The annexation of Crimea was a direct response to the ouster of Yanukovych after he refused to sign a very popular trade agreement w/ the EU in Feb of 2014. As for Trump, he is pathologically susceptible to manipulation through flattery. It's been shown time and time again he will do things for you if you shower him w/ praise. Putin was hopeful that Trump would help him w/ the EU/NATO on Ukraine and Trump didn't press the issue.

Shoe fits. Best analysis I've read today.
Whiskey Pete
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So, anyone know if the woke leftists have changed their facebook picture to show they stand with the people of Ukraine. I've heard that can be the difference maker on stuff
jupiter
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Redbrickbear
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jupiter
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jupiter
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BearFan33
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I read anonymous (hacker group) joined the fight on Ukrainian side
Redbrickbear
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jupiter said:













There is some debate that the ghost story is made up.

Hard to know. Some many things being said right now.


FLBear5630
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Cobretti said:




Really, this is the concern! These people have no concern for people trying to just live their lives!
Canada2017
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Harrison Bergeron said:

Being totally honest ... part of me really had hoped overnight the USAF would have flown in there and just bombed the **** out of the Russians.
Perhaps you are unaware the Russians always have 2-5 subs loaded with nuclear missiles off the US coast .

'Revenge weapons' just in case the US launches a surprise nuclear attack .




And the US does the exact same thing off the Russian coast.....for the exact same reason .
jupiter
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boognish_bear
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ATL Bear
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Canada2017 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Being totally honest ... part of me really had hoped overnight the USAF would have flown in there and just bombed the **** out of the Russians.
Perhaps you are unaware the Russians always have 2-5 subs loaded with nuclear missiles off the US coast .

'Revenge weapons' just in case the US launches a surprise nuclear attack .




And the US does the exact same thing off the Russian coast.....for the exact same reason .
The Russians aren't ready to end their world. US/NATO has nuclear weapons that can strike Moscow in about 10 minutes without even needing the subs.
Jacques Strap
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Jacques Strap
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FLBear5630
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RMF5630 said:

Cobretti said:




Really, this is the concern! These people have no concern for people trying to just live their lives!
Is this real???

By the way, if it is. The Russian economy is powered by fossil fuel sales, so I really doubt the same guy responsible for this mess is going to shut down their economy.

Talk about reading the room wrong.
Canada2017
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ATL Bear said:

Canada2017 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Being totally honest ... part of me really had hoped overnight the USAF would have flown in there and just bombed the **** out of the Russians.
Perhaps you are unaware the Russians always have 2-5 subs loaded with nuclear missiles off the US coast .

'Revenge weapons' just in case the US launches a surprise nuclear attack .




And the US does the exact same thing off the Russian coast.....for the exact same reason .
The Russians aren't ready to end their world. US/NATO has nuclear weapons that can strike Moscow in about 10 minutes without even needing the subs.
No one knows who is ready to end what...... or when .

'Boomer' submarines have always been a revenge weapon . Silent, moveable missile platforms which are extremely difficult to locate.

18-22 missiles per submarine ....each missile with multiple warheads . I've seen them....their engineering is amazing.

In the event your country is wiped out......it only takes 3 or 4 subs to utterly destroy your enemy .

Along with half the northern hemisphere .

And our 'boomers' are now controlled by an obvious dementia case.





Wrecks Quan Dough
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Zelensky 2024.

The man fights while Biden cowers.
Canada2017
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Amal Shuq-Up said:

Zelensky 2024.

The man fights while Biden cowers.
Unless Putin needs Zelensky alive.....he is a dead man walking .

No doubt Zelensky realizes this.

He's consciously making a bid for immortality ......like Travis at the Alamo .

Wrecks Quan Dough
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Canada2017 said:

Amal Shuq-Up said:

Zelensky 2024.

The man fights while Biden cowers.
Unless Putin needs Zelensky alive.....he is a dead man walking .

No doubt Zelensky realizes this.

He's consciously making a bid for immortality ......like Travis at the Alamo .




That is probably right. I hope the Ukrainians repel the invasion.
Canon
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Canada2017 said:

Amal Shuq-Up said:

Zelensky 2024.

The man fights while Biden cowers.
Unless Putin needs Zelensky alive.....he is a dead man walking .

No doubt Zelensky realizes this.

He's consciously making a bid for immortality ......like Travis at the Alamo .




He's a leader who is willing to give his life when it matters. Greater love hath no man than this….
Wrecks Quan Dough
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I hope he releases everything he has on the Bidens.
Wrecks Quan Dough
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Canada2017 said:

ATL Bear said:

Canada2017 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Being totally honest ... part of me really had hoped overnight the USAF would have flown in there and just bombed the **** out of the Russians.
Perhaps you are unaware the Russians always have 2-5 subs loaded with nuclear missiles off the US coast .

'Revenge weapons' just in case the US launches a surprise nuclear attack .




And the US does the exact same thing off the Russian coast.....for the exact same reason .
The Russians aren't ready to end their world. US/NATO has nuclear weapons that can strike Moscow in about 10 minutes without even needing the subs.


And our 'boomers' are now controlled by an obvious dementia case.




/s/ That is no problem because Denzel is on board the subs ready reason through the situation after the sub receives the Emergency Action Message. /s/

Very well, Mr. Hunter. Float the buoy.
Canada2017
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Canon said:

Canada2017 said:

Amal Shuq-Up said:

Zelensky 2024.

The man fights while Biden cowers.
Unless Putin needs Zelensky alive.....he is a dead man walking .

No doubt Zelensky realizes this.

He's consciously making a bid for immortality ......like Travis at the Alamo .




He's a leader who is willing to give his life when it matters. Greater love hath no man than this….
I am certainly impressed with the man's courage .

But there is also a certain amount of freedom accepting that you will be likely be killed by a sniper or missile strike .

Zelensky is living for the history books .

FLBear5630
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Canada2017 said:

ATL Bear said:

Canada2017 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Being totally honest ... part of me really had hoped overnight the USAF would have flown in there and just bombed the **** out of the Russians.
Perhaps you are unaware the Russians always have 2-5 subs loaded with nuclear missiles off the US coast .

'Revenge weapons' just in case the US launches a surprise nuclear attack .




And the US does the exact same thing off the Russian coast.....for the exact same reason .
The Russians aren't ready to end their world. US/NATO has nuclear weapons that can strike Moscow in about 10 minutes without even needing the subs.
No one knows who is ready to end what...... or when .

'Boomer' submarines have always been a revenge weapon . Silent, moveable missile platforms which are extremely difficult to locate.

18-22 missiles per submarine ....each missile with multiple warheads . I've seen them....their engineering is amazing.

In the event your country is wiped out......it only takes 3 or 4 subs to utterly destroy your enemy .

Along with half the northern hemisphere .

And our 'boomers' are now controlled by an obvious dementia case.






We used to call it part of the "Nuclear Triad." That was US doctrine for many years. But, based on the responses on this board to other "tenets" of US doctrine I am not sure we use that anymore! I am sure I am about to be told how we did away with it out of fear of pissing off Putin and Xi...
J.R.
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BearFan33 said:

Robert Wilson said:

BearFan33 said:

I'm trying to think what does Russia get out of the deal if they take over Ukraine?

I think there is a strategic port. Are big gas/oil reserves to loot?

Is this mostly for Putin's vanity or are there long term benefits for the whole of Russia?
In part, its historic and symbolic. Kyev is where the Russian Orthodox Church was founded (baptism of Vladimir of the Rus), and Putin may see it as key in the current Russian revival.

Combine that with the fact that Russia itself has stagnated for decades, and irrelevance may be Putin's greatest concern. The only "growth" path available is through expansion into what they view as historic Russian territories.

Couple guesses there, anyway. I don't think they care much about economic sanctions. I don't think they view this as primarily economic.
I talked with a few folks from the region and they believe what putin ultimately wants is to have a govt there that is largely a Russian puppet and has no desire to join NATO. He would be fine getting these things at the negotiation table which is why China has entered the picture. China gets to strut like a peacock on the world stage and Putin gets what he wants.

I'm not sure what the best thing for the West is in all of this. It's pretty clear we need to get Europe from sucking on the Russia energy teat. But they need energy options and they are infected with green fever. The USA could supply them with abundant liquified natural gas (obtained much cleaner than russian gas), but I don't think our current leadership has the desire or competence to make this happen.
We have not figured out a way to supply Europe with LNG and the level they need. LNG on tankers is very clunky and costly.
Canada2017
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J.R. said:

BearFan33 said:

Robert Wilson said:

BearFan33 said:

I'm trying to think what does Russia get out of the deal if they take over Ukraine?

I think there is a strategic port. Are big gas/oil reserves to loot?

Is this mostly for Putin's vanity or are there long term benefits for the whole of Russia?
In part, its historic and symbolic. Kyev is where the Russian Orthodox Church was founded (baptism of Vladimir of the Rus), and Putin may see it as key in the current Russian revival.

Combine that with the fact that Russia itself has stagnated for decades, and irrelevance may be Putin's greatest concern. The only "growth" path available is through expansion into what they view as historic Russian territories.

Couple guesses there, anyway. I don't think they care much about economic sanctions. I don't think they view this as primarily economic.
I talked with a few folks from the region and they believe what putin ultimately wants is to have a govt there that is largely a Russian puppet and has no desire to join NATO. He would be fine getting these things at the negotiation table which is why China has entered the picture. China gets to strut like a peacock on the world stage and Putin gets what he wants.

I'm not sure what the best thing for the West is in all of this. It's pretty clear we need to get Europe from sucking on the Russia energy teat. But they need energy options and they are infected with green fever. The USA could supply them with abundant liquified natural gas (obtained much cleaner than russian gas), but I don't think our current leadership has the desire or competence to make this happen.
We have not figured out a way to supply Europe with LNG and the level they need. LNG on tankers is very clunky and costly.
Then in your view....what is the solution ?

An Atlantic pipeline seems unfeasible .
FLBear5630
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Canada2017 said:

J.R. said:

BearFan33 said:

Robert Wilson said:

BearFan33 said:

I'm trying to think what does Russia get out of the deal if they take over Ukraine?

I think there is a strategic port. Are big gas/oil reserves to loot?

Is this mostly for Putin's vanity or are there long term benefits for the whole of Russia?
In part, its historic and symbolic. Kyev is where the Russian Orthodox Church was founded (baptism of Vladimir of the Rus), and Putin may see it as key in the current Russian revival.

Combine that with the fact that Russia itself has stagnated for decades, and irrelevance may be Putin's greatest concern. The only "growth" path available is through expansion into what they view as historic Russian territories.

Couple guesses there, anyway. I don't think they care much about economic sanctions. I don't think they view this as primarily economic.
I talked with a few folks from the region and they believe what putin ultimately wants is to have a govt there that is largely a Russian puppet and has no desire to join NATO. He would be fine getting these things at the negotiation table which is why China has entered the picture. China gets to strut like a peacock on the world stage and Putin gets what he wants.

I'm not sure what the best thing for the West is in all of this. It's pretty clear we need to get Europe from sucking on the Russia energy teat. But they need energy options and they are infected with green fever. The USA could supply them with abundant liquified natural gas (obtained much cleaner than russian gas), but I don't think our current leadership has the desire or competence to make this happen.
We have not figured out a way to supply Europe with LNG and the level they need. LNG on tankers is very clunky and costly.
Then in your view....what is the solution ?

An Atlantic pipeline seems unfeasible .
I am curious about this as well. I agree it needs to be done, but the how... Pipelines are out, Biden is cancelling them not looking for more!
Forest Bueller
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Cobretti said:




This has to be a manipulated corpse.
Wrecks Quan Dough
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Forest Bueller said:

Cobretti said:




This has to be a manipulated corpse.


Has been since the 70s.
jupiter
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Redbrickbear
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Robert Wilson
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Unfortunately, that gave Putin a window of months.
 
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