whiterock said:wouldn't it be funny if the President of that ally nation had the chutzpah to offer to do exactly that?Harrison Bergeron said:Too bad there is not a Ukrainian ally that could produce enough natural gas to power Europe for 1,000 years and remove the European dependence on Russia as well as lower Putin's profits.Quote:Fair point. Russia is not forgetting to test the mettle of the EU coalition. But war is full of hurdles, and Europe appears to be preparing for this one. Liberal government in Germany is firing up coal plants. That shows planning for a longer future without Russian gas.Quote:The missing link is the actions taken by the "European coalition" led by Russia Joe has given Putin record oil and gas profits, and when Europe begins to freeze this winter the coalition will collapse and Russia Joe will blame Trump.Quote:That's just the demands of this current "crisis." In policy statements public and private, he's also made clear statements about wanting back the Baltics, pieces of Poland, etc....most of the old Warsaw Pact. That's why we saw Finland and Sweden fold on decades of neutrality - Russian irredentism. So Ukraine is not the end of it, not by a long shot. We've already made him expend over a decade's worth of ordnance, at his current industrial capacity. The longer the Ukraine War goes on, the further out into the future it will be before he (or his successors) will be able to reestablish logistics to status quo ante Feb 2022.Quote:Quote:
hafta side with Huck, Doc.
Putin has made it clear what is his worldview, and it involves moving geography currently covered by NATO alliance into the Russian-controlled sphere. It is therefore only a matter of time before we actually will face scenarios which involve either conflict between US and Russian troops, or a withdrawal that will collapse the NATO alliance. The reason we support Ukraine is to push those WW3 scenarios as far into the future as possible. We've bought at least a decade worth of time so far, and we aren't done yet.
We owe it to our kids & grandkids to make sure Ukraine has to means to defend their country right down to the last Ukrainian. No democracy should ever die for lack of ammo.
Putin's demands are the following:
- The disarmament of Ukraine.
- The neutrality of Ukraine (no NATO membership).
- The formal recognition of Crimea as Russian.
If those are the terms, then how much escalation is necessary? How much is justified?
We have both Ukraine and Russia bombing innocent civilians. Ukraine is so corrupt they couldn't get into NATO.
Proxy battles never end well for the proxy. Those calling for war are the same people who have used Ukraine as their personal piggy bank for years.
Proxy battles can and do turn out well for the sponsor, which is our role here. Bleed down the Russian Bear. Bog it down in non-Nato territory. As long as the Ukrainians want to fight, we should praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.
People likely would care more about mean tweets than national security.
