Ukraine invaded by Putin

84,568 Views | 1093 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by HuMcK
nein51
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Jack Bauer said:

Ummmm...what?


The amount of just "wrong" in these 24 hour news cycles is astonishing. It's almost like having enough news to fill 24 hours means you have to create some of it.

Maybe it was a poor translation and "ammunition" in Ukrainian is close the word for "kneepads"...but I kind of doubt it lol
ShooterTX
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DancinBear09 said:

ShooterTX said:

DancinBear09 said:

ShooterTX said:

DancinBear09 said:

I think it's going to be really, really bad.

Couple scenarios:

1) Russia smashes Ukrainian infrastructure (political, military) and chooses to maintain a military presence. Then an insurgency develops a la Iraq for us. Quagmire. Massive loss of life.

2) Russia smashes and gets to the negotiating table. Withdraws. Ukraine under Russian umbrella. Insurgency develops. Less loss of life.


If Russia occupied Ukraine, it will be with brutality unknown in Iraq or Afghanistan. He won't attempt to create a locally lead police force, democracy and economy. There will be zero liberty. It will be just like it was in the Soviet days.
One thing that worked in those days was the ability to squash ALL uprisings.
It is foolish to try and compare Iraq to Ukraine. The levels of control and brutality will be unlike anything seen by Americans. Anyone who wants individual liberty in Ukraine has either fled, or is in their car right now trying to get to Poland. There won't be anyone left behind to create anything resembling an armed resistance.

If you were correct, then Crimea would be a quagmire for Russia.. which has not happened.

The point I was making was that there would be the possibility of a long term insurgency that Russia would have to deal with, much like we have had to deal with in Iraq, no doubt the Russians will be extremely barbaric and will kill a whole lot more people than our military would have ever experienced. I think this will be unlike anything we have seen in a very long time.


And the point in making is that there is almost no chance of a longterm insurgency, because the Russians will immediately disarm and slaughter everyone who could remotely oppose them.
There is also a lack of fanatic motivation in Ukraine, which was created in Iraq by Islamic rhetoric. Ukrainian independence is not enough of a reward to entice people to engage in suicide attacks.
Ukraine will not be like Iraq, or like Afghanistan in the 80s. It will not be a holy war. Ukrainians are too smart to kill themselves in a hopeless cause, when they can just flee to Poland and live a good life.

Apples and oranges



" when they can just flee to Poland and live a good life. "
Geesh….that's a sad reality when Poland is your saving grace.


I know, but the choice is pretty easy.

Live in Poland or live like this...


ShooterTX
nein51
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EatMoreSalmon said:

Baltics are next unless NATO shows some serious (and expensive) nerve by sending real force to there and Poland. There cannot be any serious negotiating with Putin any more. It will be very hard, but Europe needs to get away from Russian gas and oil as fast as possible. (still years) All Russian assets need to be frozen. NATO countries need to raise their level of military spending now to avoid a horrendous amount of pain and militarization necessary to face an even stronger Russia and China later. Deter now, or fight with the possibility of losing later.
The fastest way to bring an end to this is to freeze all assets. Want to show someone you mean business? Cut off their money. Hell you do that fast enough and we may not have to stop Putin before his best friends do it for us.
Proud 1992 Alum
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HuMcK said:

ShooterTX said:

DancinBear09 said:

RMF5630 said:

ShooterTX said:

This is so ridiculous.
Putin takes Crimea under the weak Obama.
Putin invades Ukraine under the weak Biden.
Yet there are morons who believe that Trump was weak??

In a few months, Xi will begin his move on Taiwan. Then he will look at Indonesia and Malaysia. He will claim to be going there to bring stability to the chaos.

I doubt Putin will directly invade a NATO ally, but that really depends upon how sleepy Joe responds to Ukraine. If he continues to project weakness, then Putin might go after the Czech Republic, Serbia, and some other eastern block nations.

It won't be a World War if Biden just rolls over like Chamberlain did in the 1930s... which sounds like the most likely scenario.

This is what happens when you eject a moron who claims that white supremacy and climate change are the greatest threats to America. Biden is either a fool, or evil... take your pick. Either he was too stupid to recognize the true threats, or he is an evil ******* who lied about the true threats.
Either way, democrats have given us this disaster when they voted for this idiot.





Yeah Putin owned Trump? Didn't see tanks roll on his watch.
I think Putin will challenge NATO commitment in a lithuania and then other Baltic states. Poland i think is a bridge too far.

I think Putin saw somewhat of ally in Trump (in a way unbeknownst to Trump). I feel Putin' plan was to play into Trump's narcissistic pathology by providing complements and "buddying up" to Trump in an effort to manipulate Trump's influence on NATO and the rest of the European PMs to get them to cool down or kill discussions about Ukraine joining NATO. That never ended up happening, Biden became president, and I imagine he saw Biden as somewhat of a weak enough leader to where he could flex his military might with little to no military reprisal from the West. Make no mistake about it though, this is 30 years in the making. Ukraine has slowly been gravitating towards Western influence for years. The have been begging to join NATO, they ousted a Russian loyalist PM out of office, and the West has not denied The possibility of Ukraine's admittance into NATO. Putin sees this as a huge threat and feels this is is last option.



Revisionist history.
The closest Ukraine came to joining NATO was before Trump. By the time Trump came to office, Putin already had Crimea. Trump was doing all he could to keep Putin contained, but by that time Ukraine was split on the idea of joining NATO. Many in Ukraine believed joining would antagonize Russia, and lead to a full invasion and full war. Many in Ukraine didn't want their nation to become the battle front for WW3... they would rather hope for peaceful coexistence with Russia. That worked for a few years, until America "elected" one of the weakest presidents in history.
Now Putin faces no resistance, and can easily gain ground & resources. He also gains a huge bargaining chip for the next round of negotiations with the west.
Obama made it possible to take Crimea and now Biden makes it possible to take Ukraine. Trump was a deterrent while he was in office. The idea that Putin liked Trump is stupid. Putin gained nothing under Trump... how was that good for him?

Trump's first campaign manager, that he pardoned to conceal the substance of that man's contact with a Russian spy, was Russian puppet Viktor Yanukovyich's top adviser. Trump's idea of "containment" was to relieve pressure on Russia by handing them back Syria (I wonder how many of those forces that were once tied down in Syria are now in Ukraine?) and withholding military aid from Ukraine as part of an extortion plot.

Has Trump even criticized the latest invasion yet? He had no problem whining about Hillary while the Russian buildup made it obvious what was about to happen. I've heard him call Putin a genius and praise the move, but I haven't heard him condemn anything yet. That conspicuous silence, while saying so much else, speaks volumes.


What? Under Trump, the U.S. military killed 90 Russian soldiers and 100 non-Russian mercenaries in a single strike in Syria. Not a huge fan of Trump, but he was better than Obama and Biden on Russia.
Wrecks Quan Dough
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nein51 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

Baltics are next unless NATO shows some serious (and expensive) nerve by sending real force to there and Poland. There cannot be any serious negotiating with Putin any more. It will be very hard, but Europe needs to get away from Russian gas and oil as fast as possible. (still years) All Russian assets need to be frozen. NATO countries need to raise their level of military spending now to avoid a horrendous amount of pain and militarization necessary to face an even stronger Russia and China later. Deter now, or fight with the possibility of losing later.
The fastest way to bring an end to this is to freeze all assets. Want to show someone you mean business? Cut off their money. Hell you do that fast enough and we may not have to stop Putin before his best friends do it for us.
Freeze his assets? That is only reserved for people who send money to Canadian truckers through Give-Send-Go.
nein51
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Amal Shuq-Up said:

nein51 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

Baltics are next unless NATO shows some serious (and expensive) nerve by sending real force to there and Poland. There cannot be any serious negotiating with Putin any more. It will be very hard, but Europe needs to get away from Russian gas and oil as fast as possible. (still years) All Russian assets need to be frozen. NATO countries need to raise their level of military spending now to avoid a horrendous amount of pain and militarization necessary to face an even stronger Russia and China later. Deter now, or fight with the possibility of losing later.
The fastest way to bring an end to this is to freeze all assets. Want to show someone you mean business? Cut off their money. Hell you do that fast enough and we may not have to stop Putin before his best friends do it for us.
Freeze his assets? That is only reserved for people who send money to Canadian truckers through Give-Send-Go.
Im not talking about his assets. Im talking about Russian assets, as many as you can find, preferably every friend/co worker/cabinet member/influential businessman...you could probably drive down real estate prices in NY and Miami by 30% in about 8 hours.
bear2be2
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Osodecentx said:

RMF5630 said:

KOKQB70 said:

How long will this last, # people killed, and what will Biden do?


Ask Goldmind, Mothra and the ilk, after all it is all a bluff and really doesn't matter anyway. It is only Ukraine, afterall. Any agreements in writing or implied weren't binding. Isn't that a nice logo to live by!
Should we send troops to Ukraine? Tactical nukes? Be specific
I'm really conflicted here. As leary as two unjustified forever wars have made me of any kind of military intervention, I'm afraid that a military response may be the only kind that will give a thug like Putin pause. A lot of bad decisions by a lot of different people have forced a very tough one here.
ShooterTX
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nein51 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

Baltics are next unless NATO shows some serious (and expensive) nerve by sending real force to there and Poland. There cannot be any serious negotiating with Putin any more. It will be very hard, but Europe needs to get away from Russian gas and oil as fast as possible. (still years) All Russian assets need to be frozen. NATO countries need to raise their level of military spending now to avoid a horrendous amount of pain and militarization necessary to face an even stronger Russia and China later. Deter now, or fight with the possibility of losing later.
The fastest way to bring an end to this is to freeze all assets. Want to show someone you mean business? Cut off their money. Hell you do that fast enough and we may not have to stop Putin before his best friends do it for us.


That is exactly what we did to the USSR, and yet it took decades to work.
You really willing to wait decades for Putin to stop invading other nations? You really think Putin hasn't considered the possibility of economic sanctions?
Putin is evil, but not stupid.
ShooterTX
Jack Bauer
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Oh good, our Hollywood heroes are here to save the day.

nein51
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ShooterTX said:

nein51 said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

Baltics are next unless NATO shows some serious (and expensive) nerve by sending real force to there and Poland. There cannot be any serious negotiating with Putin any more. It will be very hard, but Europe needs to get away from Russian gas and oil as fast as possible. (still years) All Russian assets need to be frozen. NATO countries need to raise their level of military spending now to avoid a horrendous amount of pain and militarization necessary to face an even stronger Russia and China later. Deter now, or fight with the possibility of losing later.
The fastest way to bring an end to this is to freeze all assets. Want to show someone you mean business? Cut off their money. Hell you do that fast enough and we may not have to stop Putin before his best friends do it for us.
That is exactly what we did to the USSR, and yet it took decades to work. You really willing to wait decades for Putin to stop invading other nations? You really think Putin hasn't considered the possibility of economic sanctions? Putin is evil, but not stupid.
This is not 1985 and Im not talking about economic sanctions.

My humble opinion is that there is a 0% chance this goes on for decades or even years.

Putin is stupid and evil.
ATL Bear
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ShooterTX said:

DancinBear09 said:

I think it's going to be really, really bad.

Couple scenarios:

1) Russia smashes Ukrainian infrastructure (political, military) and chooses to maintain a military presence. Then an insurgency develops a la Iraq for us. Quagmire. Massive loss of life.

2) Russia smashes and gets to the negotiating table. Withdraws. Ukraine under Russian umbrella. Insurgency develops. Less loss of life.


If Russia occupied Ukraine, it will be with brutality unknown in Iraq or Afghanistan. He won't attempt to create a locally lead police force, democracy and economy. There will be zero liberty. It will be just like it was in the Soviet days.
One thing that worked in those days was the ability to squash ALL uprisings.
It is foolish to try and compare Iraq to Ukraine. The levels of control and brutality will be unlike anything seen by Americans. Anyone who wants individual liberty in Ukraine has either fled, or is in their car right now trying to get to Poland. There won't be anyone left behind to create anything resembling an armed resistance.

If you were correct, then Crimea would be a quagmire for Russia.. which has not happened.
Ummm… That's a little too far. Iraq is turning into Iran West and Afghanistan is back to the Taliban. Not saying it might not be harsh, but we're not at Islamist tyranny level just yet.
Robert Wilson
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Jack Bauer said:

Oh good, our Hollywood heroes are here to save the day.


Why does this idiot think she understands Putin or why he is doing what he is doing? What grandstanding hubris. This kind of idiocy is emblematic of why so many people mock the West.

Here's a different take - new one on me.

https://unherd.com/2022/02/putins-spiritual-destiny/
bear2be2
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Robert Wilson said:

Jack Bauer said:

Oh good, our Hollywood heroes are here to save the day.


Why does this idiot think she understands Putin or why he is doing what he is doing? What grandstanding hubris. This kind of idiocy is emblematic of why so many people mock the West.
She got ratio'd hard. That's going over about as well as the COVID "Imagine" video.
Whiskey Pete
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BUmoneymaker said:

So glad trump is not longer in the oval office otherwise we would probably be sending troops to help in the "non-invasion".

Putin and his cronies are heros to that azzhat
It's cute that you think Putin would've invaded Ukraine if Trump was in the White House right now
Jack Bauer
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Why is Biden smiling ear to ear during a press conference on Ukraine invasion, is this funny stuff?
HuMcK
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Proud 1992 Alum said:

HuMcK said:

ShooterTX said:

DancinBear09 said:

RMF5630 said:

ShooterTX said:

This is so ridiculous.
Putin takes Crimea under the weak Obama.
Putin invades Ukraine under the weak Biden.
Yet there are morons who believe that Trump was weak??

In a few months, Xi will begin his move on Taiwan. Then he will look at Indonesia and Malaysia. He will claim to be going there to bring stability to the chaos.

I doubt Putin will directly invade a NATO ally, but that really depends upon how sleepy Joe responds to Ukraine. If he continues to project weakness, then Putin might go after the Czech Republic, Serbia, and some other eastern block nations.

It won't be a World War if Biden just rolls over like Chamberlain did in the 1930s... which sounds like the most likely scenario.

This is what happens when you eject a moron who claims that white supremacy and climate change are the greatest threats to America. Biden is either a fool, or evil... take your pick. Either he was too stupid to recognize the true threats, or he is an evil ******* who lied about the true threats.
Either way, democrats have given us this disaster when they voted for this idiot.





Yeah Putin owned Trump? Didn't see tanks roll on his watch.
I think Putin will challenge NATO commitment in a lithuania and then other Baltic states. Poland i think is a bridge too far.

I think Putin saw somewhat of ally in Trump (in a way unbeknownst to Trump). I feel Putin' plan was to play into Trump's narcissistic pathology by providing complements and "buddying up" to Trump in an effort to manipulate Trump's influence on NATO and the rest of the European PMs to get them to cool down or kill discussions about Ukraine joining NATO. That never ended up happening, Biden became president, and I imagine he saw Biden as somewhat of a weak enough leader to where he could flex his military might with little to no military reprisal from the West. Make no mistake about it though, this is 30 years in the making. Ukraine has slowly been gravitating towards Western influence for years. The have been begging to join NATO, they ousted a Russian loyalist PM out of office, and the West has not denied The possibility of Ukraine's admittance into NATO. Putin sees this as a huge threat and feels this is is last option.



Revisionist history.
The closest Ukraine came to joining NATO was before Trump. By the time Trump came to office, Putin already had Crimea. Trump was doing all he could to keep Putin contained, but by that time Ukraine was split on the idea of joining NATO. Many in Ukraine believed joining would antagonize Russia, and lead to a full invasion and full war. Many in Ukraine didn't want their nation to become the battle front for WW3... they would rather hope for peaceful coexistence with Russia. That worked for a few years, until America "elected" one of the weakest presidents in history.
Now Putin faces no resistance, and can easily gain ground & resources. He also gains a huge bargaining chip for the next round of negotiations with the west.
Obama made it possible to take Crimea and now Biden makes it possible to take Ukraine. Trump was a deterrent while he was in office. The idea that Putin liked Trump is stupid. Putin gained nothing under Trump... how was that good for him?

Trump's first campaign manager, that he pardoned to conceal the substance of that man's contact with a Russian spy, was Russian puppet Viktor Yanukovyich's top adviser. Trump's idea of "containment" was to relieve pressure on Russia by handing them back Syria (I wonder how many of those forces that were once tied down in Syria are now in Ukraine?) and withholding military aid from Ukraine as part of an extortion plot.

Has Trump even criticized the latest invasion yet? He had no problem whining about Hillary while the Russian buildup made it obvious what was about to happen. I've heard him call Putin a genius and praise the move, but I haven't heard him condemn anything yet. That conspicuous silence, while saying so much else, speaks volumes.


What? Under Trump, the U.S. military killed 90 Russian soldiers and 100 non-Russian mercenaries in a single strike in Syria. Not a huge fan of Trump, but he was better than Obama and Biden on Russia.

I've never seen any indication that he ordered that defensive strike, the call was made by the forces under attack. Not like the guy ever had trouble taking credit for anything else. And again, his long term response to that event was to retreat to far east Syria, which eventually let Putin basically close the book on that entire front. I'm not kidding, I actually wonder how much if any of the forces once in Syria (especially the air power) are now in Ukraine.

Trump was right about Nordstream 2 (which appears dead for now, at Biden's hand ironically), and getting NATO allies to spend more (even though they already committed to that under Obama). Outside of that he has some very conspicuous blind spots and rhetorical no-go zones that benefited Russia/Putin that continue to do so now.
Jack Bauer
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Robert Wilson said:

Jack Bauer said:

Oh good, our Hollywood heroes are here to save the day.


Why does this idiot think she understands Putin or why he is doing what he is doing? What grandstanding hubris. This kind of idiocy is emblematic of why so many people mock the West.

Here's a different take - new one on me.


"I'm not just a pretty blonde"

Fact Check: FALSE
Canon
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Jack Bauer said:

Robert Wilson said:

Jack Bauer said:

Oh good, our Hollywood heroes are here to save the day.


Why does this idiot think she understands Putin or why he is doing what he is doing? What grandstanding hubris. This kind of idiocy is emblematic of why so many people mock the West.

Here's a different take - new one on me.


"I'm not just a pretty blonde"

Fact Check: FALSE


I don't know. I bet she's probably good in the sack too.
Cobretti
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Jack Bauer said:

Oh good, our Hollywood heroes are here to save the day.


Wrecks Quan Dough
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Don't be so critical of Ms. McCord. Her position puts her in legit contention for a spot in the Biden cabinet.
timetraveler
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reminds me when someone reads that footsteps poem in church like it was an original
timetraveler
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Canon said:

Jack Bauer said:

Robert Wilson said:

Jack Bauer said:

Oh good, our Hollywood heroes are here to save the day.


Why does this idiot think she understands Putin or why he is doing what he is doing? What grandstanding hubris. This kind of idiocy is emblematic of why so many people mock the West.

Here's a different take - new one on me.


"I'm not just a pretty blonde"

Fact Check: FALSE


I don't know. I bet she's probably good in the sack too.
Are those the traditional christian values you want Russia to protect?
ABC BEAR
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Jack Bauer said:

Why is Biden smiling ear to ear during a press conference on Ukraine invasion, is this funny stuff?
Kamala has been working with him on 'presentation.'
ABC BEAR
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Amal Shuq-Up said:

Don't be so critical of Ms. McCord. Her position puts her in legit contention for a spot in the Biden cabinet.
Is her father named Tug McCord?
Canon
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timetraveler said:

Canon said:

Jack Bauer said:

Robert Wilson said:

Jack Bauer said:

Oh good, our Hollywood heroes are here to save the day.


Why does this idiot think she understands Putin or why he is doing what he is doing? What grandstanding hubris. This kind of idiocy is emblematic of why so many people mock the West.

Here's a different take - new one on me.


"I'm not just a pretty blonde"

Fact Check: FALSE


I don't know. I bet she's probably good in the sack too.
Are those the traditional christian values you want Russia to protect?


Putin's a Democrat, sweetie. That's why he generally waits for democrats to be in charge before he moves. He knows you have his back. He knows you'll remove the sanctions the Republican President placed on him. He knows you'll do nothing to him. You love him.
Harrison Bergeron
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I wonder which Hunter Biden painting Putin will hang in the Ukrainian Capitol?
Whiskey Pete
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Jack Bauer said:

Oh good, our Hollywood heroes are here to save the day.


Well, that's 2 minutes of my life I won't get back.
timetraveler
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Canon said:

timetraveler said:

Canon said:

Jack Bauer said:

Robert Wilson said:

Jack Bauer said:

Oh good, our Hollywood heroes are here to save the day.


Why does this idiot think she understands Putin or why he is doing what he is doing? What grandstanding hubris. This kind of idiocy is emblematic of why so many people mock the West.

Here's a different take - new one on me.


"I'm not just a pretty blonde"

Fact Check: FALSE


I don't know. I bet she's probably good in the sack too.
Are those the traditional christian values you want Russia to protect?


Purim's a Democrat, sweetie. That's why he generally waits for democrats to be in charge before he moves. He knows you have his back. He knows you'll remove the sanctions the Republican President placed on him. He knows you'll do nothing to him. You love him.
You could get a lot of trouble in Russia for running around calling men sweetie. I support your right to love who you want though
Canon
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timetraveler said:

Canon said:

timetraveler said:

Canon said:

Jack Bauer said:

Robert Wilson said:

Jack Bauer said:

Oh good, our Hollywood heroes are here to save the day.


Why does this idiot think she understands Putin or why he is doing what he is doing? What grandstanding hubris. This kind of idiocy is emblematic of why so many people mock the West.

Here's a different take - new one on me.


"I'm not just a pretty blonde"

Fact Check: FALSE


I don't know. I bet she's probably good in the sack too.
Are those the traditional christian values you want Russia to protect?


Purim's a Democrat, sweetie. That's why he generally waits for democrats to be in charge before he moves. He knows you have his back. He knows you'll remove the sanctions the Republican President placed on him. He knows you'll do nothing to him. You love him.
You could get a lot of trouble in Russia for running around calling men sweetie. I support your right to love who you want though


Just trying to use your preferred moniker. Does it upset your boyfriend if someone else calls you that?
Redbrickbear
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ShooterTX said:

DancinBear09 said:

ShooterTX said:

DancinBear09 said:

ShooterTX said:

DancinBear09 said:

I think it's going to be really, really bad.

Couple scenarios:

1) Russia smashes Ukrainian infrastructure (political, military) and chooses to maintain a military presence. Then an insurgency develops a la Iraq for us. Quagmire. Massive loss of life.

2) Russia smashes and gets to the negotiating table. Withdraws. Ukraine under Russian umbrella. Insurgency develops. Less loss of life.


If Russia occupied Ukraine, it will be with brutality unknown in Iraq or Afghanistan. He won't attempt to create a locally lead police force, democracy and economy. There will be zero liberty. It will be just like it was in the Soviet days.
One thing that worked in those days was the ability to squash ALL uprisings.
It is foolish to try and compare Iraq to Ukraine. The levels of control and brutality will be unlike anything seen by Americans. Anyone who wants individual liberty in Ukraine has either fled, or is in their car right now trying to get to Poland. There won't be anyone left behind to create anything resembling an armed resistance.

If you were correct, then Crimea would be a quagmire for Russia.. which has not happened.

The point I was making was that there would be the possibility of a long term insurgency that Russia would have to deal with, much like we have had to deal with in Iraq, no doubt the Russians will be extremely barbaric and will kill a whole lot more people than our military would have ever experienced. I think this will be unlike anything we have seen in a very long time.


And the point in making is that there is almost no chance of a longterm insurgency, because the Russians will immediately disarm and slaughter everyone who could remotely oppose them.
There is also a lack of fanatic motivation in Ukraine, which was created in Iraq by Islamic rhetoric. Ukrainian independence is not enough of a reward to entice people to engage in suicide attacks.
Ukraine will not be like Iraq, or like Afghanistan in the 80s. It will not be a holy war. Ukrainians are too smart to kill themselves in a hopeless cause, when they can just flee to Poland and live a good life.

Apples and oranges



" when they can just flee to Poland and live a good life. "
Geesh….that's a sad reality when Poland is your saving grace.


I know, but the choice is pretty easy.

Live in Poland or live like this...



War is hell
Osodecentx
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Jack Bauer said:

Ummmm...what?


Good to know
ShooterTX
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ATL Bear said:

ShooterTX said:

DancinBear09 said:

I think it's going to be really, really bad.

Couple scenarios:

1) Russia smashes Ukrainian infrastructure (political, military) and chooses to maintain a military presence. Then an insurgency develops a la Iraq for us. Quagmire. Massive loss of life.

2) Russia smashes and gets to the negotiating table. Withdraws. Ukraine under Russian umbrella. Insurgency develops. Less loss of life.


If Russia occupied Ukraine, it will be with brutality unknown in Iraq or Afghanistan. He won't attempt to create a locally lead police force, democracy and economy. There will be zero liberty. It will be just like it was in the Soviet days.
One thing that worked in those days was the ability to squash ALL uprisings.
It is foolish to try and compare Iraq to Ukraine. The levels of control and brutality will be unlike anything seen by Americans. Anyone who wants individual liberty in Ukraine has either fled, or is in their car right now trying to get to Poland. There won't be anyone left behind to create anything resembling an armed resistance.

If you were correct, then Crimea would be a quagmire for Russia.. which has not happened.
Ummm… That's a little too far. Iraq is turning into Iran West and Afghanistan is back to the Taliban. Not saying it might not be harsh, but we're not at Islamist tyranny level just yet.
He was comparing American "occupation" of Iraq with Russian occupation of Ukraine.
Yes, left to their own devises, the Iraqi and Afghani people can be horribly brutal. What I am talking about is the direct and intentional brutality of the Russians vs the way that America "occupied" Iraq and Afghanistan. America did NOT use brutality as a means of control over the Iraqi people... quite the opposite. America attempted to build an Iraqi police force and an Iraqi military... something that Putin will NOT do with Ukraine. America always had the intention to stand up a free and democratic society in Iraq, so we could leave... this is the polar opposite of the Russian objectives.

Does this explain it more clearly?
ShooterTX
ShooterTX
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Osodecentx said:

Jack Bauer said:

Ummmm...what?


Good to know
He should consult with Kamala... she is an expert on the need for knee pads.
ShooterTX
Jacques Strap
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"No one expected the sanctions to prevent anything from happening."

Redbrickbear
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ShooterTX said:

Osodecentx said:

Jack Bauer said:

Ummmm...what?


Good to know
He should consult with Kamala... she is an expert on the need for knee pads.
She didn't need special knee pads to shoot off Willie Brown's gun...
 
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