Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Yeah, the Proud boys etc all just appeared because of Trump rhetoric, right? Not because Antifa and other leftists were violently attacking conservatives who dared to have a protest or even merely a march to express their right of free speech.

---

Right, because if you're upset about left-wing anarchists the first thing you want to do is attack Mike Pence.

---

Is that what the Proud Boys etc we're doing during Trump's 4 years in office? Going after Pence?

---

It's what they were doing when "tens of thousands of people descended on the Capitol, threatening the lives of public officials."

---

After the election? How is that Trump policy? And please, tens of thousands? You have CNN's crowd estimator come up with that number for you? Hahaha

---

I was quoting your conversation with B2B2. Which at that point was about J6. You suggested that it was a response to Antifa. Let's not try to change the subject.

---

No, b2b2 was asked directly which policies and actions of Trump's made him worse than Biden when he voted for Biden and he brought up Jan 6th. Hope this helps your confusion.

---

I made it clear I was never talking about policy. The policy hangup was yours and Mothra's. I was talking about Trump's rhetoric -- the culmination of which was either a riot or insurrection attempt at the Capitol, depending on your perspective.

Wangchung said:

---

The year of BLM riots that went on unabated and even outright supported by democrats led to Jan 6th just as much as anything Trump said.

---

How so? Conservative boomers saw how much fun the rioters were having and wanted their turn? That makes zero sense.

People descended on the Capitol for one reason -- they were convinced that the election was stolen and asked to rally at the Capitol by their president and others in his circle.

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Yeah, the Proud boys etc all just appeared because of Trump rhetoric, right? Not because Antifa and other leftists were violently attacking conservatives who dared to have a protest or even merely a march to express their right of free speech.

---

Right, because if you're upset about left-wing anarchists the first thing you want to do is attack Mike Pence.

---

Is that what the Proud Boys etc we're doing during Trump's 4 years in office? Going after Pence?

---

It's what they were doing when "tens of thousands of people descended on the Capitol, threatening the lives of public officials."

---

After the election? How is that Trump policy? And please, tens of thousands? You have CNN's crowd estimator come up with that number for you? Hahaha

---

I was quoting your conversation with B2B2. Which at that point was about J6. You suggested that it was a response to Antifa. Let's not try to change the subject.

---

No, b2b2 was asked directly which policies and actions of Trump's made him worse than Biden when he voted for Biden and he brought up Jan 6th. Hope this helps your confusion.

---

I don't care who brought it up, you responded to it. And despite your best efforts I'm not confused.

bear2be2 said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Tough to almost impossible not vote against the current Dem party culture war. So there's that also in the mix.

---

I couldn't vote for Hillary. And I wouldn't have voted for Biden if Trump wasn't up for reelection.

I'm not a fan of either party or their recent pull to their ideological poles. I'm a moderate centrist, which makes me a political orphan in modern America.

---

You're centrist? Please enlighten us on your views that you believe makes you a centrist.

Wangchung said:

---

The year of BLM riots that went on unabated and even outright supported by democrats led to Jan 6th just as much as anything Trump said.

---

Right, because if you're upset about left-wing anarchists...

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

The year of BLM riots that went on unabated and even outright supported by democrats led to Jan 6th just as much as anything Trump said.

---

Right, because if you're upset about left-wing anarchists...being allowed, encouraged and funded by democrats, you're probably going to eventually respond in similar fashion.

---

Finished it for you.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Yeah, the Proud boys etc all just appeared because of Trump rhetoric, right? Not because Antifa and other leftists were violently attacking conservatives who dared to have a protest or even merely a march to express their right of free speech.

---

Right, because if you're upset about left-wing anarchists the first thing you want to do is attack Mike Pence.

---

Is that what the Proud Boys etc we're doing during Trump's 4 years in office? Going after Pence?

---

It's what they were doing when "tens of thousands of people descended on the Capitol, threatening the lives of public officials."

---

After the election? How is that Trump policy? And please, tens of thousands? You have CNN's crowd estimator come up with that number for you? Hahaha

---

I was quoting your conversation with B2B2. Which at that point was about J6. You suggested that it was a response to Antifa. Let's not try to change the subject.

---

No, b2b2 was asked directly which policies and actions of Trump's made him worse than Biden when he voted for Biden and he brought up Jan 6th. Hope this helps your confusion.

---

I don't care who brought it up, you responded to it. And despite your best efforts I'm not confused.

---

You chimed in when you THOUGHT the conversation was about Jan 6th and now you're just making excuses.

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Yeah, the Proud boys etc all just appeared because of Trump rhetoric, right? Not because Antifa and other leftists were violently attacking conservatives who dared to have a protest or even merely a march to express their right of free speech.

---

Right, because if you're upset about left-wing anarchists the first thing you want to do is attack Mike Pence.

---

Is that what the Proud Boys etc we're doing during Trump's 4 years in office? Going after Pence?

---

It's what they were doing when "tens of thousands of people descended on the Capitol, threatening the lives of public officials."

---

After the election? How is that Trump policy? And please, tens of thousands? You have CNN's crowd estimator come up with that number for you? Hahaha

---

I was quoting your conversation with B2B2. Which at that point was about J6. You suggested that it was a response to Antifa. Let's not try to change the subject.

---

No, b2b2 was asked directly which policies and actions of Trump's made him worse than Biden when he voted for Biden and he brought up Jan 6th. Hope this helps your confusion.

---

I don't care who brought it up, you responded to it. And despite your best efforts I'm not confused.

---

You chimed in when you THOUGHT the conversation was about Jan 6th and now you're just making excuses.

---

I'll assume the wink emoji means you're joking. Ha.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Yeah, the Proud boys etc all just appeared because of Trump rhetoric, right? Not because Antifa and other leftists were violently attacking conservatives who dared to have a protest or even merely a march to express their right of free speech.

---

Right, because if you're upset about left-wing anarchists the first thing you want to do is attack Mike Pence.

---

Is that what the Proud Boys etc we're doing during Trump's 4 years in office? Going after Pence?

---

It's what they were doing when "tens of thousands of people descended on the Capitol, threatening the lives of public officials."

---

After the election? How is that Trump policy? And please, tens of thousands? You have CNN's crowd estimator come up with that number for you? Hahaha

---

I was quoting your conversation with B2B2. Which at that point was about J6. You suggested that it was a response to Antifa. Let's not try to change the subject.

---

No, b2b2 was asked directly which policies and actions of Trump's made him worse than Biden when he voted for Biden and he brought up Jan 6th. Hope this helps your confusion.

---

I don't care who brought it up, you responded to it. And despite your best efforts I'm not confused.

---

You chimed in when you THOUGHT the conversation was about Jan 6th and now you're just making excuses.

---

I'll assume the wink emoji means you're joking. Ha.

---

It means " I see your intentions despite what you write based on your timing and the topic."

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Yeah, the Proud boys etc all just appeared because of Trump rhetoric, right? Not because Antifa and other leftists were violently attacking conservatives who dared to have a protest or even merely a march to express their right of free speech.

---

Right, because if you're upset about left-wing anarchists the first thing you want to do is attack Mike Pence.

---

Is that what the Proud Boys etc we're doing during Trump's 4 years in office? Going after Pence?

---

It's what they were doing when "tens of thousands of people descended on the Capitol, threatening the lives of public officials."

---

After the election? How is that Trump policy? And please, tens of thousands? You have CNN's crowd estimator come up with that number for you? Hahaha

---

I was quoting your conversation with B2B2. Which at that point was about J6. You suggested that it was a response to Antifa. Let's not try to change the subject.

---

No, b2b2 was asked directly which policies and actions of Trump's made him worse than Biden when he voted for Biden and he brought up Jan 6th. Hope this helps your confusion.

---

I don't care who brought it up, you responded to it. And despite your best efforts I'm not confused.

---

You chimed in when you THOUGHT the conversation was about Jan 6th and now you're just making excuses.

---

I'll assume the wink emoji means you're joking. Ha.

---

It means " I see your intentions despite what you write based on your timing and the topic."

---

This conversation is becoming disturbingly Mothra-esque. I'll leave you to continue arguing, or not arguing, about J6.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Yeah, the Proud boys etc all just appeared because of Trump rhetoric, right? Not because Antifa and other leftists were violently attacking conservatives who dared to have a protest or even merely a march to express their right of free speech.

---

Right, because if you're upset about left-wing anarchists the first thing you want to do is attack Mike Pence.

---

Is that what the Proud Boys etc we're doing during Trump's 4 years in office? Going after Pence?

---

It's what they were doing when "tens of thousands of people descended on the Capitol, threatening the lives of public officials."

---

After the election? How is that Trump policy? And please, tens of thousands? You have CNN's crowd estimator come up with that number for you? Hahaha

---

I was quoting your conversation with B2B2. Which at that point was about J6. You suggested that it was a response to Antifa. Let's not try to change the subject.

---

No, b2b2 was asked directly which policies and actions of Trump's made him worse than Biden when he voted for Biden and he brought up Jan 6th. Hope this helps your confusion.

---

I don't care who brought it up, you responded to it. And despite your best efforts I'm not confused.

---

You chimed in when you THOUGHT the conversation was about Jan 6th and now you're just making excuses.

---

I'll assume the wink emoji means you're joking. Ha.

---

It means " I see your intentions despite what you write based on your timing and the topic."

---

This conversation is becoming disturbingly Mothra-esque. I'll leave you to continue not arguing about J6.

---

fify

I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.

Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications

Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.

It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Sam: "Other than the fact that they came back the next day and, you know, attacked the Capitol"

To the best of my knowledge, the visitors shown in that video did not take part in any of the January 6th trespasses. Maybe that's why the Capitol Police said they saw nothing suspicious in the video.

But sure, you know more than trained law enforcement ...

---

Then you're going to want to check out the committee's letter to Rep. Loudermilk:

Quote:

---

The Select Committee has learned that some individuals you sponsored into the complex attended the rally at the Ellipse on the morning of January 6, 2021. According to video recordings from that day obtained by the Select Committee, the individual who appeared to photograph a staircase in the Longworth House Office Building filmed a companion with a flagpole appearing to have a sharpened end who spoke to the camera saying, "It's for a certain person," while making an aggressive jabbing motion. Later, these individuals joined the unpermitted march from the Ellipse to the U.S. Capitol. While standing near the Capitol grounds, the same individual made a video that contained detailed and disturbing threats against specific Members of Congress. For example, as the individual filmed the march to the Capitol, he said, "There's no escape Pelosi, Schumer, Nadler. We're coming for you." As he looked up at the Capitol, he went on:

They got it surrounded. It's all the way up there on the hill, and it's
all the way around, and they're coming in, coming in like white on
rice for Pelosi, Nadler, even you, AOC. We're coming to take you
out and pull you out by your hairs. ... When I get done with you,
you're going to need a shine on top of that bald head.

---

---

If he did something 18 months ago and DOJ has arrested 700 why was he not charged? He is on tape and video, yet nothing? He will be now because the media pressure will force them to find some law to charge him under. But, even with 700 arrests and some for a seldom used seditious conspiracy law, all of the targets of the January 6th Commission were not charged with any crime.

If the House is putting this on TV, they have had it a long time, yet their Golden Boy Merrick Garland has DOJ moving back to normal operations. Could it be he knows there is no criminal case? Funny, a month ago he was a wronged stellar Justice that screwed out of a SCOTUS seat, now he is incompetent because he hasn't prosecuted who they (Dems) want.

This is ALL political theater, if there was a legal case it would have been brought a year ago.

---

The point isn't to catch the guy in the video. It's to find out whether any members of Congress were involved.

---

So, what you have is a Congressman giving a tour. Come on Sam, you are an attorney. There is a long jump from giving a tour to it being a "reconnaissance tour" to Congressional involvement.

All it shows is giving a tour. There is nothing saying he knew it was a reconnaissance tour or that it was. Everything is a show put on to show what the Jan 6th Commission wants. How much video exists and was reviewed to get those stills? How much was used to orchestrate this view?

Is this like Cheney only quoting half of Trumps quote? Oh, the other half is where he says to go peacefully and demonstrate, that was conveniently left out.

---

No one's saying it's proof of anything. But the congressman led a tour when the complex was closed, he lied about it, and then it turned out his guests were involved in the attack. Now he won't talk to the committee. If you don't see how that's suspicious, I don't know what to tell you.

---

I would say your advice would be to hire an attorney due to the circumstantial evidence. I am not following as close, but I thought he said he did not give a "reconnaissance tour". he showed around constituents and the Capitol Police knew they were there/

As for not talking to the Jan 6 Commission on National TV would you advise him to do it based on the letter they sent him? Counselor?

---

They're not asking him to go on TV. He can meet with them any time he chooses.

---

So, you would recommend to your client, the Congressman being accused of collaborating with the rioters, to cooperate and go and talk to this committee?

---

No, but that doesn't mean it isn't suspicious. Most of the witnesses have cooperated.

bear2be2 said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Tough to almost impossible not vote against the current Dem party culture war. So there's that also in the mix.

---

I couldn't vote for Hillary. And I wouldn't have voted for Biden if Trump wasn't up for reelection.

I'm not a fan of either party or their recent pull to their ideological poles. I'm a moderate centrist, which makes me a political orphan in modern America.

---

You're centrist? Please enlighten us on your views that you believe makes you a centrist.

---

On social issues, I'm a civil libertarian. I'm very much a live and let live guy. But on fiscal issues, I'm pretty conservative. So I have voted for presidential candidates on both sides of the political aisle.

But in general, I'm for measured, moderate political stances and candidates. I don't want the pendulum swung too far in either direction. In a plural society, I think split government is important to provide a check against overreach and require compromise. Unfortunately, we're largely past the point where either party is interested in giving to solve problems in a way that benefits people outside of their voter base. But that would be my preference.

---

What's your views on these topics? Here's few. Feel free to add

Border security
Illegal imigration
Abortion
Income tax
Property taxes
Death penalty
Global warming/climate change
Critical race theory/white privelege
Gender fluidity
Gender/trans/gay instruction for 1st graders
Teachers "coming out" to their kindergarten students
Can men get pregnant?
2nd Amendment
Defund police
Should there be a national minimum age for smoking/drinking
Vaccine/mask mandates
Colin Kaepernick taking a knee
Stimulus bill/stimulus checks sent out to people
Should college be free or debit wiped out?
Universal healthcare, yes or no?
Parents taking young children to drag queen shows?
Hunter Biden laptop story been censored and removed from social media?
Ashli Babbitt killing
Brett Kavanaugh confirmation to supreme court
Protesters outside homes of SCOTUS justices
Current gas prices
Kyle Rittenhouse

Guy Noir said:

---

I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.

Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications

Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.

It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republications and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.

---

right now the GOP has every segment but the blacks and white college women. Mid terms should flip both houses of congress. The trick is to nominate somebody that all of those people can live with for 2024

4th and Inches said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.

Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications

Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.

It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republications and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.

---

right now the GOP has every segment but the blacks and white college women.

---

How very ironic - one group consists of blacks who are mad that blacks are being killed by whites, and the other consists of whites who are mad they can't kill blacks(babies).

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/impeachment-no-3-jan-6-panel-isnt-swaying-swing-state-republicans-rcna34037

Rawhide said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Tough to almost impossible not vote against the current Dem party culture war. So there's that also in the mix.

---

I couldn't vote for Hillary. And I wouldn't have voted for Biden if Trump wasn't up for reelection.

I'm not a fan of either party or their recent pull to their ideological poles. I'm a moderate centrist, which makes me a political orphan in modern America.

---

You're centrist? Please enlighten us on your views that you believe makes you a centrist.

---

He very clearly fits the pattern of sensible centrist.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.

Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications

Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.

It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republications and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.

---

right now the GOP has every segment but the blacks and white college women.

---

How very ironic - one group consists of blacks who are mad that blacks are being killed by whites, and the other consists of whites who are mad they can't kill blacks(babies).

---

Most every black I know loves Trump. They achieved more under him in 4 years than any Mulecrat ever handed them for their generations of wasted votes.

Rawhide said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

drahthaar said:

---

Tough to almost impossible not vote against the current Dem party culture war. So there's that also in the mix.

---

I couldn't vote for Hillary. And I wouldn't have voted for Biden if Trump wasn't up for reelection.

I'm not a fan of either party or their recent pull to their ideological poles. I'm a moderate centrist, which makes me a political orphan in modern America.

---

You're centrist? Please enlighten us on your views that you believe makes you a centrist.

---

On social issues, I'm a civil libertarian. I'm very much a live and let live guy. But on fiscal issues, I'm pretty conservative. So I have voted for presidential candidates on both sides of the political aisle.

But in general, I'm for measured, moderate political stances and candidates. I don't want the pendulum swung too far in either direction. In a plural society, I think split government is important to provide a check against overreach and require compromise. Unfortunately, we're largely past the point where either party is interested in giving to solve problems in a way that benefits people outside of their voter base. But that would be my preference.

---

What's your views on these topics? Here's few. Feel free to add

Border security
Illegal imigration
Abortion
Income tax
Property taxes
Death penalty
Global warming/climate change
Critical race theory/white privelege
Gender fluidity
Gender/trans/gay instruction for 1st graders
Teachers "coming out" to their kindergarten students
Can men get pregnant?
2nd Amendment
Defund police
Should there be a national minimum age for smoking/drinking
Vaccine/mask mandates
Colin Kaepernick taking a knee
Stimulus bill/stimulus checks sent out to people
Should college be free or debit wiped out?
Universal healthcare, yes or no?
Parents taking young children to drag queen shows?
Hunter Biden laptop story been censored and removed from social media?
Ashli Babbitt killing
Brett Kavanaugh confirmation to supreme court
Protesters outside homes of SCOTUS justices
Current gas prices
Kyle Rittenhouse

---

I don't see all of these topics as political topics, but I'll do my best to address each.

Border security -- I'm for it, but I want comprehensive immigration reform that secures the border while creating a reasonable path to legalization for workers. I really liked John Kasich's plan in the 2016 primaries. That would be my preference.
Illegal immigration -- See above. I'm for reform that includes a robust work visa program that allows those who come here and work to do so without having to immigrate illegally.
Abortion -- From a personal standpoint, I'm generally against abortion. But from a practical and societal standpoint, I worry about the impact of forcing unwanted births when we already have almost a half-million children in foster care. My first response to the abortion issue would be robust sex education programs and affordable/readily available contraceptives. In a perfect world, abstinence education would work. In this one, it doesn't. If reducing abortions is our goal, we need to accept that fact.
Income tax -- I don't enjoy paying it, but it's a necessary evil. I'm for a graduated tax rate where everyone pays their fair share without loopholes for corporations and the rich.
Property taxes -- I don't enjoy paying it, but I generally appreciate what that money does for my city.
Death penalty -- I'm really torn on this one. I honestly don't know where I stand.
Global warming/climate change -- I think the science suggests it's occurring and I think we should do what we can to reduce carbon emissions. But I also think we need to transition to more sustainable energy in a practical and reasonable way and that innovation, not legislation, must lead the way. If we want to move to alternative energy and transportation (electric vehicles), those things need to work well and be affordable. It's unreasonable to think we can quit petroleum until both things are true.
Critical race theory/white privilege -- I think white privilege exists, but I'm against any worldview that views every interaction from an oppressor/oppressed standpoint. To be real honest, though, I don't know enough about critical race theory to have a firm opinion on it.
Gender fluidity -- Gender dysphoria is obviously real. And it can be a matter of life and death for some individuals. I'm against rushing into anything irreversible at a young age. But I will choose to respect transgender individuals whether I understand the issue or not.
Gender/trans/gay instruction for 1st graders -- I don't think this occurs enough to be a major issue.
Teachers "coming out" to their kindergarten students -- I don't think this occurs enough to be a major issue.
Can men get pregnant? -- Biological men can't. Trans men obviously can because many have. I don't really have a reason to have a strong opinion on the issue.
2nd Amendment -- I generally respect the right to keep and bear arms as a constitutional right, but I'm for reasonable regulations to keep weapons out of the hands of unstable people.
Defund police -- I think it's a stupid idea. Society needs peacekeeping forces to protect life and property. That said, I don't think it's a bad idea for all departments to take a good look at the way they police their communities and rethink certain policies and practices.
Should there be a national minimum age for smoking/drinking -- Yes. I think the current ages are fine.
Vaccine/mask mandates -- I don't have a problem with private businesses making requirements of their employees or patrons. I don't think the government should mandate such things.
Colin Kaepernick taking a knee -- I didn't/don't care that he took a knee. I'm a staunch supporter of free speech as a concept.
Stimulus bill/stimulus checks sent out to people -- I was OK with the early ones because people were hurting and in need of the aid. The later ones were neither necessary or fiscally responsible.
Should college be free or debit wiped out? -- I'm against predatory lending, so I'd be OK with loan interest forgiveness. But I'm not for free college or total debt forgiveness. As a general rule, I believe those who take out loans should expect to pay them back. That said, I think the college costs have gotten completely unreasonable and that bubble is on the verge of bursting.
Universal healthcare, yes or no? -- I'm for an affordable public option. If it's cheaper with better care, it will drive costs down across the board through competition. If it's not, what's really lost? Our insurance-based health care system is already a disaster. But adding a public option would give currently uninsured people a path to affordable healthcare while forcing the government to prove it can actually provide quality care at an affordable price.
Parents taking young children to drag queen shows? -- That's a parent's choice. I won't be taking my kids to one. And I'm generally disapproving of shows that occur in traditionally adult environments. But it's not my job to raise other kids.
Hunter Biden laptop story been censored and removed from social media? -- As a general rule, I don't think stories should be censored from social media.
Ashli Babbitt killing -- I don't think this is a political issue. It's unfortunate she died, but when you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.
Brett Kavanaugh confirmation to supreme court -- I think the supreme court confirmation process has become far too political in general. I think presidents in office should be able to nominate judges for the entirety of their terms and that all judges with reasonable records and mainstream legal opinions should be confirmed regardless of their ideologies.
Protesters outside homes of SCOTUS justices -- I'm for peaceful assembly. I am 100 percent against violence.
Current gas prices -- They suck.
Kyle Rittenhouse -- I don't think this is a political issue either. I think he was acting in self-defense, but I don't think he should have been in Kinosha that night. He brought that situation on himself, and a situation that had no need to end up deadly did. I do wish at this point he'd go away. It's crazy to me that the guy has become a celebrity and a right-wing hero for killing two people.

bear2be2 said:

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Rawhide said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Rawhide said:

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bear2be2 said:

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drahthaar said:

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Tough to almost impossible not vote against the current Dem party culture war. So there's that also in the mix.

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I couldn't vote for Hillary. And I wouldn't have voted for Biden if Trump wasn't up for reelection.

I'm not a fan of either party or their recent pull to their ideological poles. I'm a moderate centrist, which makes me a political orphan in modern America.

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You're centrist? Please enlighten us on your views that you believe makes you a centrist.

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On social issues, I'm a civil libertarian. I'm very much a live and let live guy. But on fiscal issues, I'm pretty conservative. So I have voted for presidential candidates on both sides of the political aisle.

But in general, I'm for measured, moderate political stances and candidates. I don't want the pendulum swung too far in either direction. In a plural society, I think split government is important to provide a check against overreach and require compromise. Unfortunately, we're largely past the point where either party is interested in giving to solve problems in a way that benefits people outside of their voter base. But that would be my preference.

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What's your views on these topics? Here's few. Feel free to add

Border security
Illegal imigration
Abortion
Income tax
Property taxes
Death penalty
Global warming/climate change
Critical race theory/white privelege
Gender fluidity
Gender/trans/gay instruction for 1st graders
Teachers "coming out" to their kindergarten students
Can men get pregnant?
2nd Amendment
Defund police
Should there be a national minimum age for smoking/drinking
Vaccine/mask mandates
Colin Kaepernick taking a knee
Stimulus bill/stimulus checks sent out to people
Should college be free or debit wiped out?
Universal healthcare, yes or no?
Parents taking young children to drag queen shows?
Hunter Biden laptop story been censored and removed from social media?
Ashli Babbitt killing
Brett Kavanaugh confirmation to supreme court
Protesters outside homes of SCOTUS justices
Current gas prices
Kyle Rittenhouse

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I don't see all of these topics as political topics, but I'll do my best to address each.

Border security -- I'm for it, but I want comprehensive immigration reform that secures the border while creating a reasonable path to legalization for workers. I really liked John Kasich's plan in the 2016 primaries. That would be my preference.
Illegal immigration -- See above. I'm for reform that includes a robust work visa program that allows those who come here and work to do so without having to immigrate illegally.
Abortion -- From a personal standpoint, I'm generally against abortion. But from a practical and societal standpoint, I worry about the impact of forcing unwanted births when we already have almost a half-million children in foster care. My first response to the abortion issue would be robust sex education programs and affordable/readily available contraceptives. In a perfect world, abstinence education would work. In this one, it doesn't. If reducing abortions is our goal, we need to accept that fact.
Income tax -- I don't enjoy paying it, but it's a necessary evil. I'm for a graduated tax rate where everyone pays their fair share without loopholes for corporations and the rich.
Property taxes -- I don't enjoy paying it, but I generally appreciate what that money does for my city.
Death penalty -- I'm really torn on this one. I honestly don't know where I stand.
Global warming/climate change -- I think the science suggests it's occurring and I think we should do what we can to reduce carbon emissions. But I also think we need to transition to more sustainable energy in a practical and reasonable way and that innovation, not legislation, must lead the way. If we want to move to alternative energy and transportation (electric vehicles), those things need to work well and be affordable. It's unreasonable to think we can quit petroleum until both things are true.
Critical race theory/white privilege -- I think white privilege exists, but I'm against any worldview that views every interaction from an oppressor/oppressed standpoint. To be real honest, though, I don't know enough about critical race theory to have a firm opinion on it.
Gender fluidity -- Gender dysphoria is obviously real. And it can be a matter of life and death for some individuals. I'm against rushing into anything irreversible at a young age. But I will choose to respect transgender individuals whether I understand the issue or not.
Gender/trans/gay instruction for 1st graders -- I don't think this occurs enough to be a major issue.
Teachers "coming out" to their kindergarten students -- I don't think this occurs enough to be a major issue.
Can men get pregnant? -- Biological men can't. Trans men obviously can because many have. I don't really have a reason to have a strong opinion on the issue.
2nd Amendment -- I generally respect the right to keep and bear arms as a constitutional right, but I'm for reasonable regulations to keep weapons out of the hands of unstable people.
Defund police -- I think it's a stupid idea. Society needs peacekeeping forces to protect life and property. That said, I don't think it's a bad idea for all departments to take a good look at the way they police their communities and rethink certain policies and practices.
Should there be a national minimum age for smoking/drinking -- Yes. I think the current ages are fine.
Vaccine/mask mandates -- I don't have a problem with private businesses making requirements of their employees or patrons. I don't think the government should mandate such things.
Colin Kaepernick taking a knee -- I didn't/don't care that he took a knee. I'm a staunch supporter of free speech as a concept.
Stimulus bill/stimulus checks sent out to people -- I was OK with the early ones because people were hurting and in need of the aid. The later ones were neither necessary or fiscally responsible.
Should college be free or debit wiped out? -- I'm against predatory lending, so I'd be OK with loan interest forgiveness. But I'm not for free college or total debt forgiveness. As a general rule, I believe those who take out loans should expect to pay them back. That said, I think the college costs have gotten completely unreasonable and that bubble is on the verge of bursting.
Universal healthcare, yes or no? -- I'm for an affordable public option. If it's cheaper with better care, it will drive costs down across the board through competition. If it's not, what's really lost? Our insurance-based health care system is already a disaster. But adding a public option would give currently uninsured people a path to affordable healthcare while forcing the government to prove it can actually provide quality care at an affordable price.
Parents taking young children to drag queen shows? -- That's a parent's choice. I won't be taking my kids to one. And I'm generally disapproving of shows that occur in traditionally adult environments. But it's not my job to raise other kids.
Hunter Biden laptop story been censored and removed from social media? -- As a general rule, I don't think stories should be censored from social media.
Ashli Babbitt killing -- I don't think this is a political issue. It's unfortunate she died, but when you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.
Brett Kavanaugh confirmation to supreme court -- I think the supreme court confirmation process has become far too political in general. I think presidents in office should be able to nominate judges for the entirety of their terms and that all judges with reasonable records and mainstream legal opinions should be confirmed regardless of their ideologies.
Protesters outside homes of SCOTUS justices -- I'm for peaceful assembly. I am 100 percent against violence.
Current gas prices -- They suck.
Kyle Rittenhouse -- I don't think this is a political issue either. I think he was acting in self-defense, but I don't think he should have been in Kinosha that night. He brought that situation on himself, and a situation that had no need to end up deadly did. I do wish at this point he'd go away. It's crazy to me that the guy has become a celebrity and a right-wing hero for killing two people.

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Appreciate the responses. I agree with you on several and disagree on a few. Thanks for taking the time to reply to my question.

bear2be2 said:

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Mothra said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Mothra said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Mothra said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Mothra said:

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bear2be2 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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4th and Inches said:

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bear2be2 said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Jack Bauer said:

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4th and Inches said:

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YouGov/Yahoo Poll: Most important issue to vote for Congress

Inflation: 37%
Crime: 10%
Healthcare: 10%
Immigration: 9%
Climate Change: 8%
Abortion: 8%
Schools: 5%
Covid: 4%
Foreign Policy: 2%

I missed election/ Jan 6 on the list..

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This is not rocket science. It always comes down to your pocketbook.

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i wish it did.. that shoulda been a Trump vote landslide in 2020 but instead we got feelings vote dipsh..s and here we are

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Yes, no burden at all falls on the jackass who made the election a referendum on his own corrosive toxicity and made Joe Biden look attractive by comparison.

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nope- you voted feelings and bought the media bullsh.. Own it,

Trump policies were better than Bidens , the middle class and the poverty level shrank upward during his presidency.

All you had to do was stop watching stupid repeaters on mass media..

"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery None but ourselves can free our minds" Bob Marley

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I voted against four more years of intentional, weaponized divisiveness and mainstreaming radical far-right ideologies and bat **** conspiracy theories.

I never had any illusions that Joe Biden would be a good president. And I knew I was likely voting against my own financial best interest. It wasn't an emotional decision at all. It was a calculation. I weighed all factors and found another term for Trump to be greater threat to the long-term health of our nation than four years of Biden's bumble-****ery.

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What far right ideologies and "bat ****" conspiracy theories were going to be mainstreamed? And do you think the Biden administration has been just as, if not more, divisive?

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The same ones that were given an audience and undue legitimacy during his first (and thankfully, only) term.

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What were those? Curious.

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The ones that convinced tens of thousands of Americans to meet at the Capitol and try to overturn an election with only Dear Leader's words as their evidence/motivation. And convinced millions of others that what those folks did wasn't really a big deal.

And if you guys are going to pretend that fringe voices weren't magnified and given token admonishments that were interpreted by those groups as unofficial endorsements during the Trump presidency, then there's little reason to proceed with this discussion.

There's one reason and one reason alone that crazy extremist groups and movements that most of us had never even heard of (The Proud Boys, The Oath Keepers, the Three Percenters, Q Anon, etc.) became mainstream and felt empowered to crawl out from under their rocks during the Trump presidency. All those groups viewed Trump as their savior, and being the textbook narcissist he is, he ate that **** up.

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Got it. So you're talking about the election fraud conspiracy after Trump lost. I thought you were talking about actual policy.

You're right - we will agree to disagree that the election fraud conspiracy after Trump lost was worse than the current policy disasters that are affecting every Americans life right now on a daily basis.

When you're far worse off financially and closer to nuclear war than at any point since the early 80's, you've been a disaster.

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I've never been talking about policy, and I've made that clear.

My issue with Trump is the corrosive effect his rhetoric and behavior have had on our nation. You guys downplay that as "mean tweets," ignoring the very real damage it has done to our national identity/unity and institutions that are vital to the preservation of our democracy.

Y'all can overlook those things for tax breaks and cheap gas. I can't. And neither could 81 million other Americans who were voting against Trump more than they were voting for Biden. That you guys can't fathom that the world's biggest ******* might inspire the opposition speaks to the disconnect many of y'all have with Trump. Not everyone can rationalize/defend/accept clearly despicable behavior and the real-world consequences those things bring.

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I do not and have never overlooked Trump's boorish behavior. It's something I regularly complained about while he was president. So I understand what you're saying about the corrosive effect of his presidency.

I just don't think it's nearly as damaging to the republic as you make it, and certainly not as damaging as the policies that have an actual effect on peoples' lives. When the wokesters have been taking to social media for years, accusing conservatives of homophobia, racism, hate speech, etc. and have actively attempted - with the assistance of the social media conglomerates - to cancel those with conservative opinions for years, the idea that Trump's abrasiveness is causing lasting damage just rings hollow.

I think we both know that if those voters had to do it all over again, Biden would not be our president. The majority now realize what a mistake they made in electing this disaster. It is showing up in all the polls. I wish people had been more pragmatic and had voted on policy. But alas we have a short-sighted electorate.

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Saying "I'm not a Trump fan" while defending or downplaying his every action and using the exact same trite language Trump devotees use in conversations with their political opposition (TDS, mean tweets, etc.) isn't much of a censure.

In a political environment where neither party is ever held to account by their own constituents due to blind tribal obligation, there is no political accountability.

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I'm not sure what you want me to say. I've gone on record multiple times saying he was my last choice for the republican nominee and I hope to never hear and see the man again. I think what he did on January 6th, while not criminal incitement, was deplorable. And I think if he wins the nomination, the republicans probably lose in 2024. I regularly said these things and was critical of trumps incendiary comments over the years.

I suppose I could be hyperbolic and melodramatic and say he's destroyed democracy but I think we both know that's b.s.

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I've never said he "destroyed democracy," but it wasn't for lack of trying. And the longer you let a chaos agent like Trump exploit tribal obligations to normalize obviously dangerous behaviors, the more of a threat that becomes.

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Wasn't suggesting that's what you said. It's what other posters on these boards have said. It's what members of the January 6th committee have said.

Again, Trump would be my last choice for the next nominee. My main point in response to your post was that despite his many flaws , if you're an actual conservative - and actually even if you aren't - he's STILL better than Joe Biden, who has caused significant and lasting harm to our everyday lives. And that is why I encourage my conservative friends who are Never Trumpers to be pragmatic this next election.

Guy Noir said:

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I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.

Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications

Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.

It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.

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While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.

In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.

4th and Inches said:

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For those keeping track..Yesterday, Monica Mendez of Port Lavaca, Texas plead guilty to 26 FELONY COUNTS of voter fraud..

This is from 2018, it takes a long time to get this stuff figured out and prosecuted. Some of yall like to think the 2 months between election and inauguration is enough time to prove no fraud.

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Oh, I get it. This means Biden didn't get 81 million votes.

Mothra said:

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Guy Noir said:

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I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.

Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications

Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.

It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.

---

While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.

In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.

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What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less

Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Guy Noir said:

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I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.

Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications

Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.

It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.

---

While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.

In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.

---

What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less

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So you think a more moderate candidate would fire up the base to turn out the vote and sway moderates? What is the last moderate that got elected? And on what issues do you feel moderation is necessary?

The Romney's, McCain's and Kasich's of the world may sway some independents and milquetoast "conservatives" such as yourself, but it generally keeps the base from turning out the vote. This has been true of every election for decades. Moderates who deviate from the base on issues generally don't get elected. This has been true for decades.

I think there are areas that conservatives can find common ground with most Americans, especially when it comes to the economy and crime. And it's been true for generations that economic issues are most likely to turn out the vote.

Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Guy Noir said:

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I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.

Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications

Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.

It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.

---

While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.

In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.

---

What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less

---

So you think a more moderate candidate would fire up the base to turn out the vote and sway moderates? What is the last moderate that got elected? And on what issues do you feel moderation is necessary?

The Romney's, McCain's and Kasich's of the world may sway some independents and milquetoast "conservatives" such as yourself, but it generally keeps the base from turning out the vote. This has been true of every election for decades. Moderates who deviate from the base on issues generally don't get elected. This has been true for decades.

I think there are areas that conservatives can find common ground with most Americans, especially when it comes to the economy and crime. And it's been true for generations that economic issues are most likely to turn out the vote.

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Didn't vote for McCain. Didn't vote for Romney. Wouldn't have voted for Kasich. Won't vote for Pence, Cruz, Rubio or any Bush