Guy Noir said:

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In reference to some of the comments about Trump being divisive, I was surprised about the turnover that Trump had with his senior staff that often led to an ending relationship that is not congenial. Trump has belittled these people in the news media. Examples are Mike Pence, Kevin McCarthy, Rex Tillerson, Bill Barr, Liz Cheney, etc. These people were in for a while but once they disagree with Trump they are all of a sudden not conservative or good leaders. Surely Trump is dividing the Republican party. I think that makes him divisive.

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J.B.Katz said:

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If Biden doesn't run for re-election, Democrats will be wise not to announce who will run in his stead until the absolute last minute.

Biden may or may not be "toxic." A lot of you live in a right-wing news media bubble

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Guy Noir said:

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I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.

Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications

Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.

It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.

---

While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.

In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.

---

What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less

---

So you think a more moderate candidate would fire up the base to turn out the vote and sway moderates? What is the last moderate that got elected? And on what issues do you feel moderation is necessary?

The Romney's, McCain's and Kasich's of the world may sway some independents and milquetoast "conservatives" such as yourself, but it generally keeps the base from turning out the vote. This has been true of every election for decades. Moderates who deviate from the base on issues generally don't get elected. This has been true for decades.

I think there are areas that conservatives can find common ground with most Americans, especially when it comes to the economy and crime. And it's been true for generations that economic issues are most likely to turn out the vote.

---

What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Aren't moderate Republicans part of the base or is it only voters who refuse to vote for the Republican if it is a moderate?

Look at Rawhide's post about three of four posts below, 9:04 AM today. He says he didn't vote for McCain or Romney and wouldn't have voted for Kasich. You seem to blame "miliquetoast conservatives for the election of Biden. What about "miliquetoast conservatives" like Raw who, by your reasoning, gave us Obama twice and Clinton twice?

---

I don't agree with Rawhide's approach. I'm a pragmatist and so I don't agree with his approach or your approach. If it was between Kasich and Biden, I'd absolutely vote Kasich.

But the statistics have shown that if the Republican candidate fails to excite the base, they don't turn out to vote. And generally moderate candidates simply don't excite the base. And when the base doesn't turn out to vote republicans lose. History has proven this.

---

I think some here would say that Trump excited the Republican base in 2020. He lost moderates and independents and lost by millions of votes, but he excited the base.

Why do you think only conservative Republicans are the base? Why aren't moderates the Republican base?

If Trump wins the fringe and loses moderates and independents, he loses.

What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Is it conservative or moderate?

---

In political terms, the base is the block of voters who are very unlikely to vote for the candidate of an opposing party, regardless of the specific views each candidate holds. In short they're not turncoats who will cast a vote for Biden if they don't like the Republican party's candidate, such as a number of Never Trumpers. In most elections it's important for the candidate to excite the base. If they sit it out - like they did during the McCain and Romney elections, then the republicans have little chance of winning.

Now that does not mean the Republican candidate doesn't need to attract at least some independents and moderates. Indeed he or she does, as Trump did in 2016. But exciting the base is typically more important because they're the ones who turn out the vote. If they decide to sit it out, the republican candidate is in trouble.

When they start appealing to wishy washy Luke warms such as yourself who really aren't all that conservative or concerned with conservative polices, republicans lose. That's a proven losing strategy time and time again.

---

Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.

Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications

Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.

It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.

---

While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.

In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.

---

What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less

---

So you think a more moderate candidate would fire up the base to turn out the vote and sway moderates? What is the last moderate that got elected? And on what issues do you feel moderation is necessary?

The Romney's, McCain's and Kasich's of the world may sway some independents and milquetoast "conservatives" such as yourself, but it generally keeps the base from turning out the vote. This has been true of every election for decades. Moderates who deviate from the base on issues generally don't get elected. This has been true for decades.

I think there are areas that conservatives can find common ground with most Americans, especially when it comes to the economy and crime. And it's been true for generations that economic issues are most likely to turn out the vote.

---

What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Aren't moderate Republicans part of the base or is it only voters who refuse to vote for the Republican if it is a moderate?

Look at Rawhide's post about three of four posts below, 9:04 AM today. He says he didn't vote for McCain or Romney and wouldn't have voted for Kasich. You seem to blame "miliquetoast conservatives for the election of Biden. What about "miliquetoast conservatives" like Raw who, by your reasoning, gave us Obama twice and Clinton twice?

---

I don't agree with Rawhide's approach. I'm a pragmatist and so I don't agree with his approach or your approach. If it was between Kasich and Biden, I'd absolutely vote Kasich.

But the statistics have shown that if the Republican candidate fails to excite the base, they don't turn out to vote. And generally moderate candidates simply don't excite the base. And when the base doesn't turn out to vote republicans lose. History has proven this.

---

I think some here would say that Trump excited the Republican base in 2020. He lost moderates and independents and lost by millions of votes, but he excited the base.

Why do you think only conservative Republicans are the base? Why aren't moderates the Republican base?

If Trump wins the fringe and loses moderates and independents, he loses.

What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Is it conservative or moderate?

---

In political terms, the base is the block of voters who are very unlikely to vote for the candidate of an opposing party, regardless of the specific views each candidate holds. In short they're not turncoats who will cast a vote for Biden if they don't like the Republican party's candidate, such as a number of Never Trumpers. In most elections it's important for the candidate to excite the base. If they sit it out - like they did during the McCain and Romney elections, then the republicans have little chance of winning.

Now that does not mean the Republican candidate doesn't need to attract at least some independents and moderates. Indeed he or she does, as Trump did in 2016. But exciting the base is typically more important because they're the ones who turn out the vote. If they decide to sit it out, the republican candidate is in trouble.

When they start appealing to wishy washy Luke warms such as yourself who really aren't all that conservative or concerned with conservative polices, republicans lose. That's a proven losing strategy time and time again.

---

You're right, I don't put party first. You're a good "base" voter; "my party right or wrong".

Trump is no conservative. A party that continues to protect and promote him is not worthy of support. His actions after the election and especially Jan 6 are a disqualification. Trump is bad for the country and bad for the Republican Party.

I agree with your definition of "base voter". I put the base vote at about 20% of the general election voters for Republicans but that is just a guess.

---

Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.

Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications

Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.

It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.

---

While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.

In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.

---

What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less

---

So you think a more moderate candidate would fire up the base to turn out the vote and sway moderates? What is the last moderate that got elected? And on what issues do you feel moderation is necessary?

The Romney's, McCain's and Kasich's of the world may sway some independents and milquetoast "conservatives" such as yourself, but it generally keeps the base from turning out the vote. This has been true of every election for decades. Moderates who deviate from the base on issues generally don't get elected. This has been true for decades.

I think there are areas that conservatives can find common ground with most Americans, especially when it comes to the economy and crime. And it's been true for generations that economic issues are most likely to turn out the vote.

---

What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Aren't moderate Republicans part of the base or is it only voters who refuse to vote for the Republican if it is a moderate?

Look at Rawhide's post about three of four posts below, 9:04 AM today. He says he didn't vote for McCain or Romney and wouldn't have voted for Kasich. You seem to blame "miliquetoast conservatives for the election of Biden. What about "miliquetoast conservatives" like Raw who, by your reasoning, gave us Obama twice and Clinton twice?

---

I don't agree with Rawhide's approach. I'm a pragmatist and so I don't agree with his approach or your approach. If it was between Kasich and Biden, I'd absolutely vote Kasich.

But the statistics have shown that if the Republican candidate fails to excite the base, they don't turn out to vote. And generally moderate candidates simply don't excite the base. And when the base doesn't turn out to vote republicans lose. History has proven this.

---

I think some here would say that Trump excited the Republican base in 2020. He lost moderates and independents and lost by millions of votes, but he excited the base.

Why do you think only conservative Republicans are the base? Why aren't moderates the Republican base?

If Trump wins the fringe and loses moderates and independents, he loses.

What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Is it conservative or moderate?

---

In political terms, the base is the block of voters who are very unlikely to vote for the candidate of an opposing party, regardless of the specific views each candidate holds. In short they're not turncoats who will cast a vote for Biden if they don't like the Republican party's candidate, such as a number of Never Trumpers. In most elections it's important for the candidate to excite the base. If they sit it out - like they did during the McCain and Romney elections, then the republicans have little chance of winning.

Now that does not mean the Republican candidate doesn't need to attract at least some independents and moderates. Indeed he or she does, as Trump did in 2016. But exciting the base is typically more important because they're the ones who turn out the vote. If they decide to sit it out, the republican candidate is in trouble.

When they start appealing to wishy washy Luke warms such as yourself who really aren't all that conservative or concerned with conservative polices, republicans lose. That's a proven losing strategy time and time again.

---

You're right, I don't put party first. You're a good "base" voter; "my party right or wrong".

Trump is no conservative. A party that continues to protect and promote him is not worthy of support. His actions after the election and especially Jan 6 are a disqualification. Trump is bad for the country and bad for the Republican Party.

I agree with your definition of "base voter". I put the base vote at about 20% of the general election voters for Republicans but that is just a guess.

---

I realized back in 2020 that Biden would be a disaster, and I have been proven right with each passing day. He has done lasting harm to our country. Your approach to voting has likewise proven a disaster.

---

Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.

Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications

Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.

It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.

---

While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.

In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.

---

What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less

---

So you think a more moderate candidate would fire up the base to turn out the vote and sway moderates? What is the last moderate that got elected? And on what issues do you feel moderation is necessary?

The Romney's, McCain's and Kasich's of the world may sway some independents and milquetoast "conservatives" such as yourself, but it generally keeps the base from turning out the vote. This has been true of every election for decades. Moderates who deviate from the base on issues generally don't get elected. This has been true for decades.

I think there are areas that conservatives can find common ground with most Americans, especially when it comes to the economy and crime. And it's been true for generations that economic issues are most likely to turn out the vote.

---

What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Aren't moderate Republicans part of the base or is it only voters who refuse to vote for the Republican if it is a moderate?

Look at Rawhide's post about three of four posts below, 9:04 AM today. He says he didn't vote for McCain or Romney and wouldn't have voted for Kasich. You seem to blame "miliquetoast conservatives for the election of Biden. What about "miliquetoast conservatives" like Raw who, by your reasoning, gave us Obama twice and Clinton twice?

---

I don't agree with Rawhide's approach. I'm a pragmatist and so I don't agree with his approach or your approach. If it was between Kasich and Biden, I'd absolutely vote Kasich.

But the statistics have shown that if the Republican candidate fails to excite the base, they don't turn out to vote. And generally moderate candidates simply don't excite the base. And when the base doesn't turn out to vote republicans lose. History has proven this.

---

I think some here would say that Trump excited the Republican base in 2020. He lost moderates and independents and lost by millions of votes, but he excited the base.

Why do you think only conservative Republicans are the base? Why aren't moderates the Republican base?

If Trump wins the fringe and loses moderates and independents, he loses.

What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Is it conservative or moderate?

---

In political terms, the base is the block of voters who are very unlikely to vote for the candidate of an opposing party, regardless of the specific views each candidate holds. In short they're not turncoats who will cast a vote for Biden if they don't like the Republican party's candidate, such as a number of Never Trumpers. In most elections it's important for the candidate to excite the base. If they sit it out - like they did during the McCain and Romney elections, then the republicans have little chance of winning.

Now that does not mean the Republican candidate doesn't need to attract at least some independents and moderates. Indeed he or she does, as Trump did in 2016. But exciting the base is typically more important because they're the ones who turn out the vote. If they decide to sit it out, the republican candidate is in trouble.

When they start appealing to wishy washy Luke warms such as yourself who really aren't all that conservative or concerned with conservative polices, republicans lose. That's a proven losing strategy time and time again.

---

You're right, I don't put party first. You're a good "base" voter; "my party right or wrong".

Trump is no conservative. A party that continues to protect and promote him is not worthy of support. His actions after the election and especially Jan 6 are a disqualification. Trump is bad for the country and bad for the Republican Party.

I agree with your definition of "base voter". I put the base vote at about 20% of the general election voters for Republicans but that is just a guess.

---

I realized back in 2020 that Biden would be a disaster, and I have been proven right with each passing day. He has done lasting harm to our country. Your approach to voting has likewise proven a disaster.

---

You may be right; I voted for Trump

Unlike you, I put values and integrity first. I'll vote country over Party

---

Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.

Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications

Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.

It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.

---

While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.

In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.

---

What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less

---

So you think a more moderate candidate would fire up the base to turn out the vote and sway moderates? What is the last moderate that got elected? And on what issues do you feel moderation is necessary?

The Romney's, McCain's and Kasich's of the world may sway some independents and milquetoast "conservatives" such as yourself, but it generally keeps the base from turning out the vote. This has been true of every election for decades. Moderates who deviate from the base on issues generally don't get elected. This has been true for decades.

I think there are areas that conservatives can find common ground with most Americans, especially when it comes to the economy and crime. And it's been true for generations that economic issues are most likely to turn out the vote.

---

What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Aren't moderate Republicans part of the base or is it only voters who refuse to vote for the Republican if it is a moderate?

Look at Rawhide's post about three of four posts below, 9:04 AM today. He says he didn't vote for McCain or Romney and wouldn't have voted for Kasich. You seem to blame "miliquetoast conservatives for the election of Biden. What about "miliquetoast conservatives" like Raw who, by your reasoning, gave us Obama twice and Clinton twice?

---

I don't agree with Rawhide's approach. I'm a pragmatist and so I don't agree with his approach or your approach. If it was between Kasich and Biden, I'd absolutely vote Kasich.

But the statistics have shown that if the Republican candidate fails to excite the base, they don't turn out to vote. And generally moderate candidates simply don't excite the base. And when the base doesn't turn out to vote republicans lose. History has proven this.

---

I think some here would say that Trump excited the Republican base in 2020. He lost moderates and independents and lost by millions of votes, but he excited the base.

Why do you think only conservative Republicans are the base? Why aren't moderates the Republican base?

If Trump wins the fringe and loses moderates and independents, he loses.

What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Is it conservative or moderate?

---

In political terms, the base is the block of voters who are very unlikely to vote for the candidate of an opposing party, regardless of the specific views each candidate holds. In short they're not turncoats who will cast a vote for Biden if they don't like the Republican party's candidate, such as a number of Never Trumpers. In most elections it's important for the candidate to excite the base. If they sit it out - like they did during the McCain and Romney elections, then the republicans have little chance of winning.

Now that does not mean the Republican candidate doesn't need to attract at least some independents and moderates. Indeed he or she does, as Trump did in 2016. But exciting the base is typically more important because they're the ones who turn out the vote. If they decide to sit it out, the republican candidate is in trouble.

When they start appealing to wishy washy Luke warms such as yourself who really aren't all that conservative or concerned with conservative polices, republicans lose. That's a proven losing strategy time and time again.

---

You're right, I don't put party first. You're a good "base" voter; "my party right or wrong".

Trump is no conservative. A party that continues to protect and promote him is not worthy of support. His actions after the election and especially Jan 6 are a disqualification. Trump is bad for the country and bad for the Republican Party.

I agree with your definition of "base voter". I put the base vote at about 20% of the general election voters for Republicans but that is just a guess.

---

I realized back in 2020 that Biden would be a disaster, and I have been proven right with each passing day. He has done lasting harm to our country. Your approach to voting has likewise proven a disaster.

---

You may be right; I voted for Trump

Unlike you, I put values and integrity first. I'll vote country over Party

---

Let's not pretend that you haven't said on this very thread if you had to do it all over again you wouldn't vote Trump. Instead you would choose the current disaster.

And despite whatever you would like to fool yourself into believing, that is not putting country first.

---

Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Guy Noir said:

---

I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.

Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications

Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.

It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.

---

While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.

In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.

---

What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less

---

So you think a more moderate candidate would fire up the base to turn out the vote and sway moderates? What is the last moderate that got elected? And on what issues do you feel moderation is necessary?

The Romney's, McCain's and Kasich's of the world may sway some independents and milquetoast "conservatives" such as yourself, but it generally keeps the base from turning out the vote. This has been true of every election for decades. Moderates who deviate from the base on issues generally don't get elected. This has been true for decades.

I think there are areas that conservatives can find common ground with most Americans, especially when it comes to the economy and crime. And it's been true for generations that economic issues are most likely to turn out the vote.

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What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Aren't moderate Republicans part of the base or is it only voters who refuse to vote for the Republican if it is a moderate?

Look at Rawhide's post about three of four posts below, 9:04 AM today. He says he didn't vote for McCain or Romney and wouldn't have voted for Kasich. You seem to blame "miliquetoast conservatives for the election of Biden. What about "miliquetoast conservatives" like Raw who, by your reasoning, gave us Obama twice and Clinton twice?

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I don't agree with Rawhide's approach. I'm a pragmatist and so I don't agree with his approach or your approach. If it was between Kasich and Biden, I'd absolutely vote Kasich.

But the statistics have shown that if the Republican candidate fails to excite the base, they don't turn out to vote. And generally moderate candidates simply don't excite the base. And when the base doesn't turn out to vote republicans lose. History has proven this.

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I think some here would say that Trump excited the Republican base in 2020. He lost moderates and independents and lost by millions of votes, but he excited the base.

Why do you think only conservative Republicans are the base? Why aren't moderates the Republican base?

If Trump wins the fringe and loses moderates and independents, he loses.

What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Is it conservative or moderate?

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In political terms, the base is the block of voters who are very unlikely to vote for the candidate of an opposing party, regardless of the specific views each candidate holds. In short they're not turncoats who will cast a vote for Biden if they don't like the Republican party's candidate, such as a number of Never Trumpers. In most elections it's important for the candidate to excite the base. If they sit it out - like they did during the McCain and Romney elections, then the republicans have little chance of winning.

Now that does not mean the Republican candidate doesn't need to attract at least some independents and moderates. Indeed he or she does, as Trump did in 2016. But exciting the base is typically more important because they're the ones who turn out the vote. If they decide to sit it out, the republican candidate is in trouble.

When they start appealing to wishy washy Luke warms such as yourself who really aren't all that conservative or concerned with conservative polices, republicans lose. That's a proven losing strategy time and time again.

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You're right, I don't put party first. You're a good "base" voter; "my party right or wrong".

Trump is no conservative. A party that continues to protect and promote him is not worthy of support. His actions after the election and especially Jan 6 are a disqualification. Trump is bad for the country and bad for the Republican Party.

I agree with your definition of "base voter". I put the base vote at about 20% of the general election voters for Republicans but that is just a guess.

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I realized back in 2020 that Biden would be a disaster, and I have been proven right with each passing day. He has done lasting harm to our country. Your approach to voting has likewise proven a disaster.

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You may be right; I voted for Trump

Unlike you, I put values and integrity first. I'll vote country over Party

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Let's not pretend that you haven't said on this very thread if you had to do it all over again you wouldn't vote Trump. Instead you would choose the current disaster.

And despite whatever you would like to fool yourself into believing, that is not putting country first.

---

Not voting for Trump is different from voting for a Republican.

And you aren't putting the country first with blind devotion to a political party. I'll put integrity and character before a party

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C. Jordan said:

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Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.

Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.

It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.

What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.

The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."

Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.

Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.

---

4th and Inches said:

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C. Jordan said:

---

Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.

Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.

It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.

What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.

The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."

Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.

Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.

---

link to the poll and its cross tabs please and thanks!

Its never encouraging to cite an ABC poll..

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Guy Noir said:

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I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.

Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications

Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.

It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.

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While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.

In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.

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What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less

---

So you think a more moderate candidate would fire up the base to turn out the vote and sway moderates? What is the last moderate that got elected? And on what issues do you feel moderation is necessary?

The Romney's, McCain's and Kasich's of the world may sway some independents and milquetoast "conservatives" such as yourself, but it generally keeps the base from turning out the vote. This has been true of every election for decades. Moderates who deviate from the base on issues generally don't get elected. This has been true for decades.

I think there are areas that conservatives can find common ground with most Americans, especially when it comes to the economy and crime. And it's been true for generations that economic issues are most likely to turn out the vote.

---

What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Aren't moderate Republicans part of the base or is it only voters who refuse to vote for the Republican if it is a moderate?

Look at Rawhide's post about three of four posts below, 9:04 AM today. He says he didn't vote for McCain or Romney and wouldn't have voted for Kasich. You seem to blame "miliquetoast conservatives for the election of Biden. What about "miliquetoast conservatives" like Raw who, by your reasoning, gave us Obama twice and Clinton twice?

---

I don't agree with Rawhide's approach. I'm a pragmatist and so I don't agree with his approach or your approach. If it was between Kasich and Biden, I'd absolutely vote Kasich.

But the statistics have shown that if the Republican candidate fails to excite the base, they don't turn out to vote. And generally moderate candidates simply don't excite the base. And when the base doesn't turn out to vote republicans lose. History has proven this.

---

I think some here would say that Trump excited the Republican base in 2020. He lost moderates and independents and lost by millions of votes, but he excited the base.

Why do you think only conservative Republicans are the base? Why aren't moderates the Republican base?

If Trump wins the fringe and loses moderates and independents, he loses.

What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Is it conservative or moderate?

---

In political terms, the base is the block of voters who are very unlikely to vote for the candidate of an opposing party, regardless of the specific views each candidate holds. In short they're not turncoats who will cast a vote for Biden if they don't like the Republican party's candidate, such as a number of Never Trumpers. In most elections it's important for the candidate to excite the base. If they sit it out - like they did during the McCain and Romney elections, then the republicans have little chance of winning.

Now that does not mean the Republican candidate doesn't need to attract at least some independents and moderates. Indeed he or she does, as Trump did in 2016. But exciting the base is typically more important because they're the ones who turn out the vote. If they decide to sit it out, the republican candidate is in trouble.

When they start appealing to wishy washy Luke warms such as yourself who really aren't all that conservative or concerned with conservative polices, republicans lose. That's a proven losing strategy time and time again.

---

You're right, I don't put party first. You're a good "base" voter; "my party right or wrong".

Trump is no conservative. A party that continues to protect and promote him is not worthy of support. His actions after the election and especially Jan 6 are a disqualification. Trump is bad for the country and bad for the Republican Party.

I agree with your definition of "base voter". I put the base vote at about 20% of the general election voters for Republicans but that is just a guess.

---

I realized back in 2020 that Biden would be a disaster, and I have been proven right with each passing day. He has done lasting harm to our country. Your approach to voting has likewise proven a disaster.

---

You may be right; I voted for Trump

Unlike you, I put values and integrity first. I'll vote country over Party

---

Let's not pretend that you haven't said on this very thread if you had to do it all over again you wouldn't vote Trump. Instead you would choose the current disaster.

And despite whatever you would like to fool yourself into believing, that is not putting country first.

---

Not voting for Trump is different from voting for a Republican.

And you aren't putting the country first with blind devotion to a political party. I'll put integrity and character before a party

---

4th and Inches said:

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C. Jordan said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.

Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.

It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.

What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.

The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."

Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.

Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.

---

link to the poll and its cross tabs please and thanks!

Its never encouraging to cite an ABC poll..

---

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/10-americans-trump-charged-jan-riot-poll/story?id=85482369

91% of Democrats, 21% of Republicans, and what should be most worrying for you, 62% of independents.

Also, 60% of Americans believe the committee has been fair.

You can diss the messenger all you want, but it shows the committee is being effective with people who aren't in the cult.

Serious questions:

How can you dismiss the testimony of people who were not only conservative Republicans but who both voted for Trump and campaigned for him?

How can you excuse Trump's vilification of poll workers, who were guilty of nothing but doing their jobs?

---

it's interesting that your poll quotes 60% of Americans believe in what they're hearing from the J6 committee yet nobody's watching it according to TV ratings. We're supposed to believe Adam the great in what he said on TV yesterday but he's been wrong about just everything related to Trump the Russia stuff, the phone calls stuff.(nice retraction from the press on misquoting Trump on the GA phone calls)

Those same indies are polling as voting with Trump if the 2024 election waa held today..

Stop being a useful idiot..

Prosecute Trump, I dont care..I do care that our current govt keeps lying to the American people. The people deserve better than focusing on the past.

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Redbrickbear said:

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4th and Inches said:

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C. Jordan said:

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4th and Inches said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.

Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.

It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.

What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.

The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."

Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.

Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.

---

link to the poll and its cross tabs please and thanks!

Its never encouraging to cite an ABC poll..

---

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/10-americans-trump-charged-jan-riot-poll/story?id=85482369

91% of Democrats, 21% of Republicans, and what should be most worrying for you, 62% of independents.

Also, 60% of Americans believe the committee has been fair.

You can diss the messenger all you want, but it shows the committee is being effective with people who aren't in the cult.

Serious questions:

How can you dismiss the testimony of people who were not only conservative Republicans but who both voted for Trump and campaigned for him?

How can you excuse Trump's vilification of poll workers, who were guilty of nothing but doing their jobs?

---

it's interesting that your poll quotes 60% of Americans believe in what they're hearing from the J6 committee yet nobody's watching it according to TV ratings. We're supposed to believe Adam the great in what he said on TV yesterday but he's been wrong about just everything related to Trump the Russia stuff, the phone calls stuff.(nice retraction from the press on misquoting Trump on the GA phone calls)

---

That is actually a terrible number. The majority of people tuning in for this dog and pony show are disproportionally Left-Liberal.

90% should be believing what they hear.

I honestly can't believe it's that low.

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