I believe this to be true if the present trends continue. But Joe will not be the Dem nominee this next Prez election cycle. Kamala v. Trump would be a mud rassling event with no favorite, IMO. Hence, Kamala won't be the nominee either. Dems will set aside the historical habits, knowing that if Trump is the GOP nominee, then any of their other "horses" would run away with the election. A jackass never won the Derby and the GOP needs to dump Trump with knowledge that the Dems will not run this current sack of "leadership" based on results alone. the biggest mistakes both parties are making is in thinking the other side is stupid.4th and Inches said:nobody would lose to Biden, not even Trump.. Biden is that toxic right now. He is being padded by over sampled polling and is still under 40% approval in pretty much every poll. He is underwater with the indies and he cant win without them..JXL said:
Trump might be the only candidate the Republicans could nominate who would lose to Biden.
Jan 6 committee
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So far, I think they will go with Buttigieg. He is being groomed.drahthaar said:I believe this to be true if the present trends continue. But Joe will not be the Dem nominee this next Prez election cycle. Kamala v. Trump would be a mud rassling event with no favorite, IMO. Hence, Kamala won't be the nominee either. Dems will set aside the historical habits, knowing that if Trump is the GOP nominee, then any of their other "horses" would run away with the election. A jackass never won the Derby and the GOP needs to dump Trump with knowledge that the Dems will not run this current sack of "leadership" based on results alone. the biggest mistakes both parties are making is in thinking the other side is stupid.4th and Inches said:nobody would lose to Biden, not even Trump.. Biden is that toxic right now. He is being padded by over sampled polling and is still under 40% approval in pretty much every poll. He is underwater with the indies and he cant win without them..JXL said:
Trump might be the only candidate the Republicans could nominate who would lose to Biden.
maybe.. i would say no big leadership position in his past but that didnt stop O or TrumpRMF5630 said:So far, I think they will go with Buttigieg. He is being groomed.drahthaar said:I believe this to be true if the present trends continue. But Joe will not be the Dem nominee this next Prez election cycle. Kamala v. Trump would be a mud rassling event with no favorite, IMO. Hence, Kamala won't be the nominee either. Dems will set aside the historical habits, knowing that if Trump is the GOP nominee, then any of their other "horses" would run away with the election. A jackass never won the Derby and the GOP needs to dump Trump with knowledge that the Dems will not run this current sack of "leadership" based on results alone. the biggest mistakes both parties are making is in thinking the other side is stupid.4th and Inches said:nobody would lose to Biden, not even Trump.. Biden is that toxic right now. He is being padded by over sampled polling and is still under 40% approval in pretty much every poll. He is underwater with the indies and he cant win without them..JXL said:
Trump might be the only candidate the Republicans could nominate who would lose to Biden.
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To be honest, it's a complete joke when somone says (insert any politician name here) is divisive. They're ALL divisive.Guy Noir said:
In reference to some of the comments about Trump being divisive, I was surprised about the turnover that Trump had with his senior staff that often led to an ending relationship that is not congenial. Trump has belittled these people in the news media. Examples are Mike Pence, Kevin McCarthy, Rex Tillerson, Bill Barr, Liz Cheney, etc. These people were in for a while but once they disagree with Trump they are all of a sudden not conservative or good leaders. Surely Trump is dividing the Republican party. I think that makes him divisive.
Hell, even under Reagan's landslide re-election in '84 over 40% of the voters cast a vote against him. Was he divisive? Kamala has lost staff faster than bill clintons lost his pants at a Miss America pageant, is she divisive? Of course, she's a politician.
To pretend that Trump is more divisive than any other politician is the history of the world ever period, is either: 1) Outright partisan blindness or 2) Constipated with a chronic case of TDS or 3) Complete dishonesty.
The fact remains that Trump brought more gays, more hispanics and more blacks over to his side than any other recent Republican president or candidate on the GOP ticket. Hell, he garnered more non-white votes than any other Republican in 60 years.
One of the most divisive presidents, my ass. I'm not saying you said that, but I've seen it posted by other resident liberals here.
I will say one thing. Biden seems to be less devisive than Trump. He's got almost everyone believing his an idiot. We're almost all unified on that front. So yay to dementia Joe
You know Trump "worshippers" are maybe 10% of his voters, the other 90% held their nose and voted for him because they rightly understand democrat policies could lead to the destruction of countries financial engine and their moral policies could be the undoing of the judeo/christian culture of the country.bear2be2 said:I'll do that when you admit your cult-like devotion to a morally bankrupt grifter devoid of any desirable leadership qualities.Oldbear83 said:
Worst fiction of the day, that post.
Just admit you voted out of spite, and we're all paying for it now.
And you can rest easy. My vote was meaningless. Trump won Texas. It wasn't one of the states he had to pretend to win to save face with his worshippers.
It's really that simple. Virtually nobody I know liked Trump, or they were afraid to admit to me they like him, cause they knew I couldn't stand him as a person.
Depends on if you are talking 2016 or 2020.Forest Bueller_bf said:You know Trump "worshippers" are maybe 10% of his voters, the other 90% held their nose and voted for him because they rightly understand democrat policies could lead to the destruction of countries financial engine and their moral policies could be the undoing of the judeo/christian culture of the country.bear2be2 said:I'll do that when you admit your cult-like devotion to a morally bankrupt grifter devoid of any desirable leadership qualities.Oldbear83 said:
Worst fiction of the day, that post.
Just admit you voted out of spite, and we're all paying for it now.
And you can rest easy. My vote was meaningless. Trump won Texas. It wasn't one of the states he had to pretend to win to save face with his worshippers.
It's really that simple. Virtually nobody I know liked Trump, or they were afraid to admit to me they like him, cause they knew I couldn't stand him as a person.
In 2016, even his personality was preferable to Hillary. He was new, outsider and surprised alot of people, plus he was running against Hillary.
2020, I agree with you. Held the nose...
I meant 2020.RMF5630 said:Depends on if you are talking 2016 or 2020.Forest Bueller_bf said:You know Trump "worshippers" are maybe 10% of his voters, the other 90% held their nose and voted for him because they rightly understand democrat policies could lead to the destruction of countries financial engine and their moral policies could be the undoing of the judeo/christian culture of the country.bear2be2 said:I'll do that when you admit your cult-like devotion to a morally bankrupt grifter devoid of any desirable leadership qualities.Oldbear83 said:
Worst fiction of the day, that post.
Just admit you voted out of spite, and we're all paying for it now.
And you can rest easy. My vote was meaningless. Trump won Texas. It wasn't one of the states he had to pretend to win to save face with his worshippers.
It's really that simple. Virtually nobody I know liked Trump, or they were afraid to admit to me they like him, cause they knew I couldn't stand him as a person.
In 2016, even his personality was preferable to Hillary. He was new, outsider and surprised alot of people, plus he was running against Hillary.
2020, I agree with you. Held the nose...
In 2016 he was anybody but Hillary. He was a political unknown.
Seems like 2020 ended up being anybody but Trump for a lot of people.
If Biden doesn't run for re-election, Democrats will be wise not to announce who will run in his stead until the absolute last minute.
Biden may or may not be "toxic." A lot of you live in a right-wing news media bubble where every Democrat is hammered as the spawn of Satan 24/7. One reason Biden came from behind and prevailed in 2020 is that right-wing news media didn't have to opportunity to do to him what they did to Hillary for 8 years in conjunction with Trey Goudy's ultimately fruitless investigation. (Had Trump been investigated that thoroughly, criminal indictment would be a possibility. One real disservice Barr did was preclude that.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/12/15/barr-blind-loyalty-not-enough-to-save-trump-from-voters-column/3904158001/
Republicans are not as good nor Democrats as bad as your preferred media sources paint them.
What right-wing media has done is preclude any working toward the center to actually move the country forward. For example, lots of Republicans voted against infrastructure, which is not only necessary for public safety and to maintain the U.S. as a first-world country but crucial to national security. Which Republicans supposedly support.
Biden may or may not be "toxic." A lot of you live in a right-wing news media bubble where every Democrat is hammered as the spawn of Satan 24/7. One reason Biden came from behind and prevailed in 2020 is that right-wing news media didn't have to opportunity to do to him what they did to Hillary for 8 years in conjunction with Trey Goudy's ultimately fruitless investigation. (Had Trump been investigated that thoroughly, criminal indictment would be a possibility. One real disservice Barr did was preclude that.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/12/15/barr-blind-loyalty-not-enough-to-save-trump-from-voters-column/3904158001/
Republicans are not as good nor Democrats as bad as your preferred media sources paint them.
What right-wing media has done is preclude any working toward the center to actually move the country forward. For example, lots of Republicans voted against infrastructure, which is not only necessary for public safety and to maintain the U.S. as a first-world country but crucial to national security. Which Republicans supposedly support.
lol, what?!J.B.Katz said:
If Biden doesn't run for re-election, Democrats will be wise not to announce who will run in his stead until the absolute last minute.
Biden may or may not be "toxic." A lot of you live in a right-wing news media bubble
Yougov polling says Biden is toxic. ABC/WaPO says the same thing. CNN says the same thing.. I am sorry for using these right wing bubble sources
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102 Georgia counties can't produce drop box surveillance and chain of custody documents missing for approximately 181,507 ballots
1.7 million digital ballot images destroyed in 56 counties.
Federal law requires a 22 month retention period and GA state law requires a 24 month retention period but the election board rules seemed to have over ridden them by allowing destruction after 30 days.
They got to clean their mess up like Florida did after 16
1.7 million digital ballot images destroyed in 56 counties.
Federal law requires a 22 month retention period and GA state law requires a 24 month retention period but the election board rules seemed to have over ridden them by allowing destruction after 30 days.
They got to clean their mess up like Florida did after 16
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Trumps GA phone call..
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"Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp is poised to sign a bill to overhaul the state's voting system with machines that are widely considered vulnerable to hacking."
This quote comes from 2019 in that alt right wing publication.. Politico.com
This quote comes from 2019 in that alt right wing publication.. Politico.com
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You're right, I don't put party first. You're a good "base" voter; "my party right or wrong".Mothra said:Osodecentx said:I think some here would say that Trump excited the Republican base in 2020. He lost moderates and independents and lost by millions of votes, but he excited the base.Mothra said:Osodecentx said:What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Aren't moderate Republicans part of the base or is it only voters who refuse to vote for the Republican if it is a moderate?Mothra said:Osodecentx said:What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)Mothra said:Guy Noir said:
I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.
Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications
Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.
It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.
While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.
In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less
So you think a more moderate candidate would fire up the base to turn out the vote and sway moderates? What is the last moderate that got elected? And on what issues do you feel moderation is necessary?
The Romney's, McCain's and Kasich's of the world may sway some independents and milquetoast "conservatives" such as yourself, but it generally keeps the base from turning out the vote. This has been true of every election for decades. Moderates who deviate from the base on issues generally don't get elected. This has been true for decades.
I think there are areas that conservatives can find common ground with most Americans, especially when it comes to the economy and crime. And it's been true for generations that economic issues are most likely to turn out the vote.
Look at Rawhide's post about three of four posts below, 9:04 AM today. He says he didn't vote for McCain or Romney and wouldn't have voted for Kasich. You seem to blame "miliquetoast conservatives for the election of Biden. What about "miliquetoast conservatives" like Raw who, by your reasoning, gave us Obama twice and Clinton twice?
I don't agree with Rawhide's approach. I'm a pragmatist and so I don't agree with his approach or your approach. If it was between Kasich and Biden, I'd absolutely vote Kasich.
But the statistics have shown that if the Republican candidate fails to excite the base, they don't turn out to vote. And generally moderate candidates simply don't excite the base. And when the base doesn't turn out to vote republicans lose. History has proven this.
Why do you think only conservative Republicans are the base? Why aren't moderates the Republican base?
If Trump wins the fringe and loses moderates and independents, he loses.
What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Is it conservative or moderate?
In political terms, the base is the block of voters who are very unlikely to vote for the candidate of an opposing party, regardless of the specific views each candidate holds. In short they're not turncoats who will cast a vote for Biden if they don't like the Republican party's candidate, such as a number of Never Trumpers. In most elections it's important for the candidate to excite the base. If they sit it out - like they did during the McCain and Romney elections, then the republicans have little chance of winning.
Now that does not mean the Republican candidate doesn't need to attract at least some independents and moderates. Indeed he or she does, as Trump did in 2016. But exciting the base is typically more important because they're the ones who turn out the vote. If they decide to sit it out, the republican candidate is in trouble.
When they start appealing to wishy washy Luke warms such as yourself who really aren't all that conservative or concerned with conservative polices, republicans lose. That's a proven losing strategy time and time again.
Trump is no conservative. A party that continues to protect and promote him is not worthy of support. His actions after the election and especially Jan 6 are a disqualification. Trump is bad for the country and bad for the Republican Party.
I agree with your definition of "base voter". I put the base vote at about 20% of the general election voters for Republicans but that is just a guess.
The people are telling congress they are wrong, wonder if anybody in DC is listening
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I would submit it's more accurate to say you don't put conservative values first. It's fine with you if a liberal does lasting damage to the country as long as you can send a message to Republicans. I believe that's a short-sighted and inflexible attitude that is bad for our country.Osodecentx said:You're right, I don't put party first. You're a good "base" voter; "my party right or wrong".Mothra said:Osodecentx said:I think some here would say that Trump excited the Republican base in 2020. He lost moderates and independents and lost by millions of votes, but he excited the base.Mothra said:Osodecentx said:What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Aren't moderate Republicans part of the base or is it only voters who refuse to vote for the Republican if it is a moderate?Mothra said:Osodecentx said:What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)Mothra said:Guy Noir said:
I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.
Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications
Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.
It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.
While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.
In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less
So you think a more moderate candidate would fire up the base to turn out the vote and sway moderates? What is the last moderate that got elected? And on what issues do you feel moderation is necessary?
The Romney's, McCain's and Kasich's of the world may sway some independents and milquetoast "conservatives" such as yourself, but it generally keeps the base from turning out the vote. This has been true of every election for decades. Moderates who deviate from the base on issues generally don't get elected. This has been true for decades.
I think there are areas that conservatives can find common ground with most Americans, especially when it comes to the economy and crime. And it's been true for generations that economic issues are most likely to turn out the vote.
Look at Rawhide's post about three of four posts below, 9:04 AM today. He says he didn't vote for McCain or Romney and wouldn't have voted for Kasich. You seem to blame "miliquetoast conservatives for the election of Biden. What about "miliquetoast conservatives" like Raw who, by your reasoning, gave us Obama twice and Clinton twice?
I don't agree with Rawhide's approach. I'm a pragmatist and so I don't agree with his approach or your approach. If it was between Kasich and Biden, I'd absolutely vote Kasich.
But the statistics have shown that if the Republican candidate fails to excite the base, they don't turn out to vote. And generally moderate candidates simply don't excite the base. And when the base doesn't turn out to vote republicans lose. History has proven this.
Why do you think only conservative Republicans are the base? Why aren't moderates the Republican base?
If Trump wins the fringe and loses moderates and independents, he loses.
What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Is it conservative or moderate?
In political terms, the base is the block of voters who are very unlikely to vote for the candidate of an opposing party, regardless of the specific views each candidate holds. In short they're not turncoats who will cast a vote for Biden if they don't like the Republican party's candidate, such as a number of Never Trumpers. In most elections it's important for the candidate to excite the base. If they sit it out - like they did during the McCain and Romney elections, then the republicans have little chance of winning.
Now that does not mean the Republican candidate doesn't need to attract at least some independents and moderates. Indeed he or she does, as Trump did in 2016. But exciting the base is typically more important because they're the ones who turn out the vote. If they decide to sit it out, the republican candidate is in trouble.
When they start appealing to wishy washy Luke warms such as yourself who really aren't all that conservative or concerned with conservative polices, republicans lose. That's a proven losing strategy time and time again.
Trump is no conservative. A party that continues to protect and promote him is not worthy of support. His actions after the election and especially Jan 6 are a disqualification. Trump is bad for the country and bad for the Republican Party.
I agree with your definition of "base voter". I put the base vote at about 20% of the general election voters for Republicans but that is just a guess.
Unlike you, I am a pragmatist. I don't have to agree with everything that the candidate thinks or believes to see whose policies are better for my family and the country. That approach has served me well. It's about to get Roe v. Wade overturned.
I realized back in 2020 that Biden would be a disaster, and I have been proven right with each passing day. He has done lasting harm to our country. Your approach to voting has likewise proven a disaster.
We did and are. Cost us a baseball all star game, "negative" press, and some movie gigs, but the same issues won't pop up in the next election cycle.4th and Inches said:
102 Georgia counties can't produce drop box surveillance and chain of custody documents missing for approximately 181,507 ballots
1.7 million digital ballot images destroyed in 56 counties.
Federal law requires a 22 month retention period and GA state law requires a 24 month retention period but the election board rules seemed to have over ridden them by allowing destruction after 30 days.
They got to clean their mess up like Florida did after 16
You may be right; I voted for TrumpMothra said:Osodecentx said:You're right, I don't put party first. You're a good "base" voter; "my party right or wrong".Mothra said:Osodecentx said:I think some here would say that Trump excited the Republican base in 2020. He lost moderates and independents and lost by millions of votes, but he excited the base.Mothra said:Osodecentx said:What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Aren't moderate Republicans part of the base or is it only voters who refuse to vote for the Republican if it is a moderate?Mothra said:Osodecentx said:What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)Mothra said:Guy Noir said:
I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.
Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications
Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.
It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.
While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.
In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less
So you think a more moderate candidate would fire up the base to turn out the vote and sway moderates? What is the last moderate that got elected? And on what issues do you feel moderation is necessary?
The Romney's, McCain's and Kasich's of the world may sway some independents and milquetoast "conservatives" such as yourself, but it generally keeps the base from turning out the vote. This has been true of every election for decades. Moderates who deviate from the base on issues generally don't get elected. This has been true for decades.
I think there are areas that conservatives can find common ground with most Americans, especially when it comes to the economy and crime. And it's been true for generations that economic issues are most likely to turn out the vote.
Look at Rawhide's post about three of four posts below, 9:04 AM today. He says he didn't vote for McCain or Romney and wouldn't have voted for Kasich. You seem to blame "miliquetoast conservatives for the election of Biden. What about "miliquetoast conservatives" like Raw who, by your reasoning, gave us Obama twice and Clinton twice?
I don't agree with Rawhide's approach. I'm a pragmatist and so I don't agree with his approach or your approach. If it was between Kasich and Biden, I'd absolutely vote Kasich.
But the statistics have shown that if the Republican candidate fails to excite the base, they don't turn out to vote. And generally moderate candidates simply don't excite the base. And when the base doesn't turn out to vote republicans lose. History has proven this.
Why do you think only conservative Republicans are the base? Why aren't moderates the Republican base?
If Trump wins the fringe and loses moderates and independents, he loses.
What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Is it conservative or moderate?
In political terms, the base is the block of voters who are very unlikely to vote for the candidate of an opposing party, regardless of the specific views each candidate holds. In short they're not turncoats who will cast a vote for Biden if they don't like the Republican party's candidate, such as a number of Never Trumpers. In most elections it's important for the candidate to excite the base. If they sit it out - like they did during the McCain and Romney elections, then the republicans have little chance of winning.
Now that does not mean the Republican candidate doesn't need to attract at least some independents and moderates. Indeed he or she does, as Trump did in 2016. But exciting the base is typically more important because they're the ones who turn out the vote. If they decide to sit it out, the republican candidate is in trouble.
When they start appealing to wishy washy Luke warms such as yourself who really aren't all that conservative or concerned with conservative polices, republicans lose. That's a proven losing strategy time and time again.
Trump is no conservative. A party that continues to protect and promote him is not worthy of support. His actions after the election and especially Jan 6 are a disqualification. Trump is bad for the country and bad for the Republican Party.
I agree with your definition of "base voter". I put the base vote at about 20% of the general election voters for Republicans but that is just a guess.
I realized back in 2020 that Biden would be a disaster, and I have been proven right with each passing day. He has done lasting harm to our country. Your approach to voting has likewise proven a disaster.
Unlike you, I put values and integrity first. I'll vote country over Party
Osodecentx said:You may be right; I voted for TrumpMothra said:Osodecentx said:You're right, I don't put party first. You're a good "base" voter; "my party right or wrong".Mothra said:Osodecentx said:I think some here would say that Trump excited the Republican base in 2020. He lost moderates and independents and lost by millions of votes, but he excited the base.Mothra said:Osodecentx said:What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Aren't moderate Republicans part of the base or is it only voters who refuse to vote for the Republican if it is a moderate?Mothra said:Osodecentx said:What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)Mothra said:Guy Noir said:
I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.
Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications
Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.
It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.
While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.
In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less
So you think a more moderate candidate would fire up the base to turn out the vote and sway moderates? What is the last moderate that got elected? And on what issues do you feel moderation is necessary?
The Romney's, McCain's and Kasich's of the world may sway some independents and milquetoast "conservatives" such as yourself, but it generally keeps the base from turning out the vote. This has been true of every election for decades. Moderates who deviate from the base on issues generally don't get elected. This has been true for decades.
I think there are areas that conservatives can find common ground with most Americans, especially when it comes to the economy and crime. And it's been true for generations that economic issues are most likely to turn out the vote.
Look at Rawhide's post about three of four posts below, 9:04 AM today. He says he didn't vote for McCain or Romney and wouldn't have voted for Kasich. You seem to blame "miliquetoast conservatives for the election of Biden. What about "miliquetoast conservatives" like Raw who, by your reasoning, gave us Obama twice and Clinton twice?
I don't agree with Rawhide's approach. I'm a pragmatist and so I don't agree with his approach or your approach. If it was between Kasich and Biden, I'd absolutely vote Kasich.
But the statistics have shown that if the Republican candidate fails to excite the base, they don't turn out to vote. And generally moderate candidates simply don't excite the base. And when the base doesn't turn out to vote republicans lose. History has proven this.
Why do you think only conservative Republicans are the base? Why aren't moderates the Republican base?
If Trump wins the fringe and loses moderates and independents, he loses.
What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Is it conservative or moderate?
In political terms, the base is the block of voters who are very unlikely to vote for the candidate of an opposing party, regardless of the specific views each candidate holds. In short they're not turncoats who will cast a vote for Biden if they don't like the Republican party's candidate, such as a number of Never Trumpers. In most elections it's important for the candidate to excite the base. If they sit it out - like they did during the McCain and Romney elections, then the republicans have little chance of winning.
Now that does not mean the Republican candidate doesn't need to attract at least some independents and moderates. Indeed he or she does, as Trump did in 2016. But exciting the base is typically more important because they're the ones who turn out the vote. If they decide to sit it out, the republican candidate is in trouble.
When they start appealing to wishy washy Luke warms such as yourself who really aren't all that conservative or concerned with conservative polices, republicans lose. That's a proven losing strategy time and time again.
Trump is no conservative. A party that continues to protect and promote him is not worthy of support. His actions after the election and especially Jan 6 are a disqualification. Trump is bad for the country and bad for the Republican Party.
I agree with your definition of "base voter". I put the base vote at about 20% of the general election voters for Republicans but that is just a guess.
I realized back in 2020 that Biden would be a disaster, and I have been proven right with each passing day. He has done lasting harm to our country. Your approach to voting has likewise proven a disaster.
Unlike you, I put values and integrity first. I'll vote country over Party
Let's not pretend that you haven't said on this very thread if you had to do it all over again you wouldn't vote Trump. Instead you would choose the current disaster.
And despite whatever you would like to fool yourself into believing, that is not putting country first.
Is this thing over yet?? Yawn
sure..WacoKelly83 said:
Is this thing over yet?? Yawn
Its the offseason, what else are we gonna do?
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Not voting for Trump is different from voting for a Republican.Mothra said:Osodecentx said:You may be right; I voted for TrumpMothra said:Osodecentx said:You're right, I don't put party first. You're a good "base" voter; "my party right or wrong".Mothra said:Osodecentx said:I think some here would say that Trump excited the Republican base in 2020. He lost moderates and independents and lost by millions of votes, but he excited the base.Mothra said:Osodecentx said:What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Aren't moderate Republicans part of the base or is it only voters who refuse to vote for the Republican if it is a moderate?Mothra said:Osodecentx said:What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)Mothra said:Guy Noir said:
I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.
Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications
Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.
It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.
While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.
In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less
So you think a more moderate candidate would fire up the base to turn out the vote and sway moderates? What is the last moderate that got elected? And on what issues do you feel moderation is necessary?
The Romney's, McCain's and Kasich's of the world may sway some independents and milquetoast "conservatives" such as yourself, but it generally keeps the base from turning out the vote. This has been true of every election for decades. Moderates who deviate from the base on issues generally don't get elected. This has been true for decades.
I think there are areas that conservatives can find common ground with most Americans, especially when it comes to the economy and crime. And it's been true for generations that economic issues are most likely to turn out the vote.
Look at Rawhide's post about three of four posts below, 9:04 AM today. He says he didn't vote for McCain or Romney and wouldn't have voted for Kasich. You seem to blame "miliquetoast conservatives for the election of Biden. What about "miliquetoast conservatives" like Raw who, by your reasoning, gave us Obama twice and Clinton twice?
I don't agree with Rawhide's approach. I'm a pragmatist and so I don't agree with his approach or your approach. If it was between Kasich and Biden, I'd absolutely vote Kasich.
But the statistics have shown that if the Republican candidate fails to excite the base, they don't turn out to vote. And generally moderate candidates simply don't excite the base. And when the base doesn't turn out to vote republicans lose. History has proven this.
Why do you think only conservative Republicans are the base? Why aren't moderates the Republican base?
If Trump wins the fringe and loses moderates and independents, he loses.
What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Is it conservative or moderate?
In political terms, the base is the block of voters who are very unlikely to vote for the candidate of an opposing party, regardless of the specific views each candidate holds. In short they're not turncoats who will cast a vote for Biden if they don't like the Republican party's candidate, such as a number of Never Trumpers. In most elections it's important for the candidate to excite the base. If they sit it out - like they did during the McCain and Romney elections, then the republicans have little chance of winning.
Now that does not mean the Republican candidate doesn't need to attract at least some independents and moderates. Indeed he or she does, as Trump did in 2016. But exciting the base is typically more important because they're the ones who turn out the vote. If they decide to sit it out, the republican candidate is in trouble.
When they start appealing to wishy washy Luke warms such as yourself who really aren't all that conservative or concerned with conservative polices, republicans lose. That's a proven losing strategy time and time again.
Trump is no conservative. A party that continues to protect and promote him is not worthy of support. His actions after the election and especially Jan 6 are a disqualification. Trump is bad for the country and bad for the Republican Party.
I agree with your definition of "base voter". I put the base vote at about 20% of the general election voters for Republicans but that is just a guess.
I realized back in 2020 that Biden would be a disaster, and I have been proven right with each passing day. He has done lasting harm to our country. Your approach to voting has likewise proven a disaster.
Unlike you, I put values and integrity first. I'll vote country over Party
Let's not pretend that you haven't said on this very thread if you had to do it all over again you wouldn't vote Trump. Instead you would choose the current disaster.
And despite whatever you would like to fool yourself into believing, that is not putting country first.
And you aren't putting the country first with blind devotion to a political party. I'll put integrity and character before a party
cop out.. you either vote for one or the other in our two oarty system. If he gets there, Call my vote for Trump in gen election 2024 a vote against whatever Dem socialist puppet they throw at us. Policy over feelings, i didnt vote for Trump, i voted against shi..y policy.Osodecentx said:Not voting for Trump is different from voting for a Republican.Mothra said:Osodecentx said:You may be right; I voted for TrumpMothra said:Osodecentx said:You're right, I don't put party first. You're a good "base" voter; "my party right or wrong".Mothra said:Osodecentx said:I think some here would say that Trump excited the Republican base in 2020. He lost moderates and independents and lost by millions of votes, but he excited the base.Mothra said:Osodecentx said:What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Aren't moderate Republicans part of the base or is it only voters who refuse to vote for the Republican if it is a moderate?Mothra said:Osodecentx said:What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)Mothra said:Guy Noir said:
I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.
Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications
Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.
It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.
While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.
In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less
So you think a more moderate candidate would fire up the base to turn out the vote and sway moderates? What is the last moderate that got elected? And on what issues do you feel moderation is necessary?
The Romney's, McCain's and Kasich's of the world may sway some independents and milquetoast "conservatives" such as yourself, but it generally keeps the base from turning out the vote. This has been true of every election for decades. Moderates who deviate from the base on issues generally don't get elected. This has been true for decades.
I think there are areas that conservatives can find common ground with most Americans, especially when it comes to the economy and crime. And it's been true for generations that economic issues are most likely to turn out the vote.
Look at Rawhide's post about three of four posts below, 9:04 AM today. He says he didn't vote for McCain or Romney and wouldn't have voted for Kasich. You seem to blame "miliquetoast conservatives for the election of Biden. What about "miliquetoast conservatives" like Raw who, by your reasoning, gave us Obama twice and Clinton twice?
I don't agree with Rawhide's approach. I'm a pragmatist and so I don't agree with his approach or your approach. If it was between Kasich and Biden, I'd absolutely vote Kasich.
But the statistics have shown that if the Republican candidate fails to excite the base, they don't turn out to vote. And generally moderate candidates simply don't excite the base. And when the base doesn't turn out to vote republicans lose. History has proven this.
Why do you think only conservative Republicans are the base? Why aren't moderates the Republican base?
If Trump wins the fringe and loses moderates and independents, he loses.
What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Is it conservative or moderate?
In political terms, the base is the block of voters who are very unlikely to vote for the candidate of an opposing party, regardless of the specific views each candidate holds. In short they're not turncoats who will cast a vote for Biden if they don't like the Republican party's candidate, such as a number of Never Trumpers. In most elections it's important for the candidate to excite the base. If they sit it out - like they did during the McCain and Romney elections, then the republicans have little chance of winning.
Now that does not mean the Republican candidate doesn't need to attract at least some independents and moderates. Indeed he or she does, as Trump did in 2016. But exciting the base is typically more important because they're the ones who turn out the vote. If they decide to sit it out, the republican candidate is in trouble.
When they start appealing to wishy washy Luke warms such as yourself who really aren't all that conservative or concerned with conservative polices, republicans lose. That's a proven losing strategy time and time again.
Trump is no conservative. A party that continues to protect and promote him is not worthy of support. His actions after the election and especially Jan 6 are a disqualification. Trump is bad for the country and bad for the Republican Party.
I agree with your definition of "base voter". I put the base vote at about 20% of the general election voters for Republicans but that is just a guess.
I realized back in 2020 that Biden would be a disaster, and I have been proven right with each passing day. He has done lasting harm to our country. Your approach to voting has likewise proven a disaster.
Unlike you, I put values and integrity first. I'll vote country over Party
Let's not pretend that you haven't said on this very thread if you had to do it all over again you wouldn't vote Trump. Instead you would choose the current disaster.
And despite whatever you would like to fool yourself into believing, that is not putting country first.
And you aren't putting the country first with blind devotion to a political party. I'll put integrity and character before a party
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I will not vote for Trump or Biden if they are on the ballot on the next election. I will vote Libertarian if the Republicans do not present a worthy candidate.
If the political parties observe the possibility of the erosion of support with either of those candidates then I hope they will be motivated to field a more qualified candidate. BTW, I can not think of a recent Democratic candidate that I would ever vote.
If the political parties observe the possibility of the erosion of support with either of those candidates then I hope they will be motivated to field a more qualified candidate. BTW, I can not think of a recent Democratic candidate that I would ever vote.
Again, can we (USA) not do better their either of these clowns? Unbelievable, really!
Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.
Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.
It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.
What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.
The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."
Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.
Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.
Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.
It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.
What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.
The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."
Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.
Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.
J.R. said:
Again, can we (USA) not do better their either of these clowns? Unbelievable, really!
I agree that our leadership is less than inspiring. In the case of Trump, criminal.
But the problem isn't them.
It's us.
They reflect our values. At least the values of those who show up and vote.
As the man said, "The decisions are made by those who show up."
And as the great prophet and philosopher Pogo said, "We have met the enemy and he is us."
link to the poll and its cross tabs please and thanks!C. Jordan said:
Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.
Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.
It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.
What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.
The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."
Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.
Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.
Its never encouraging to cite an ABC poll..
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https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/10-americans-trump-charged-jan-riot-poll/story?id=854823694th and Inches said:link to the poll and its cross tabs please and thanks!C. Jordan said:
Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.
Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.
It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.
What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.
The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."
Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.
Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.
Its never encouraging to cite an ABC poll..
91% of Democrats, 21% of Republicans, and what should be most worrying for you, 62% of independents.
Also, 60% of Americans believe the committee has been fair.
You can diss the messenger all you want, but it shows the committee is being effective with people who aren't in the cult.
Serious questions:
How can you dismiss the testimony of people who were not only conservative Republicans but who both voted for Trump and campaigned for him?
How can you excuse Trump's vilification of poll workers, who were guilty of nothing but doing their jobs?
it's interesting that your poll quotes 60% of Americans believe in what they're hearing from the J6 committee yet nobody's watching it according to TV ratings. We're supposed to believe Adam the great in what he said on TV yesterday but he's been wrong about just everything related to Trump the Russia stuff, the phone calls stuff.(nice retraction from the press on misquoting Trump on the GA phone calls)C. Jordan said:https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/10-americans-trump-charged-jan-riot-poll/story?id=854823694th and Inches said:link to the poll and its cross tabs please and thanks!C. Jordan said:
Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.
Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.
It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.
What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.
The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."
Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.
Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.
Its never encouraging to cite an ABC poll..
91% of Democrats, 21% of Republicans, and what should be most worrying for you, 62% of independents.
Also, 60% of Americans believe the committee has been fair.
You can diss the messenger all you want, but it shows the committee is being effective with people who aren't in the cult.
Serious questions:
How can you dismiss the testimony of people who were not only conservative Republicans but who both voted for Trump and campaigned for him?
How can you excuse Trump's vilification of poll workers, who were guilty of nothing but doing their jobs?
Those same indies are polling as voting with Trump if the 2024 election waa held today..
Stop being a useful idiot..
Prosecute Trump, I dont care..I do care that our current govt keeps lying to the American people. The people deserve better than focusing on the past.
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Good attempt at deflection and distraction.4th and Inches said:it's interesting that your poll quotes 60% of Americans believe in what they're hearing from the J6 committee yet nobody's watching it according to TV ratings. We're supposed to believe Adam the great in what he said on TV yesterday but he's been wrong about just everything related to Trump the Russia stuff, the phone calls stuff.(nice retraction from the press on misquoting Trump on the GA phone calls)C. Jordan said:https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/10-americans-trump-charged-jan-riot-poll/story?id=854823694th and Inches said:link to the poll and its cross tabs please and thanks!C. Jordan said:
Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.
Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.
It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.
What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.
The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."
Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.
Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.
Its never encouraging to cite an ABC poll..
91% of Democrats, 21% of Republicans, and what should be most worrying for you, 62% of independents.
Also, 60% of Americans believe the committee has been fair.
You can diss the messenger all you want, but it shows the committee is being effective with people who aren't in the cult.
Serious questions:
How can you dismiss the testimony of people who were not only conservative Republicans but who both voted for Trump and campaigned for him?
How can you excuse Trump's vilification of poll workers, who were guilty of nothing but doing their jobs?
Those same indies are polling as voting with Trump if the 2024 election waa held today..
Stop being a useful idiot..
Prosecute Trump, I dont care..I do care that our current govt keeps lying to the American people. The people deserve better than focusing on the past.
Your problem isn't Adam. Your problem is all the loyal conservative Republicans who testified to Trump's lies and crimes.
The Indies won't be voting for Trump if he's in prison.
And those polls were taken before the committee's work.
So you have no answers for these conservative Republicans and their accounts of Trump's crimes.
And you have no answers for how Trump ruined the lives of these innocent poll workers.
We need to look at this because there's something greater at stake here than policies. Democracy itself is at stake.
The TX GOP just showed how important this conversation is by saying that Biden is an illegitimate president. This shows that Trump's lies have become deeply seated in the party.
I'm so grateful for the Committee's work because it's showing convincingly that Trump is an existential threat to democracy and should never hold elected office of any kind again.
(And resorting to name-calling tells me you know you've lost the debate)
I understand why you are trying to make distinctions without a difference, but that's all they are. Let's also not pretend that Biden has integrity and character that offset his horribly destructive policies. He has none of the above, and bad policy to boot.Osodecentx said:Not voting for Trump is different from voting for a Republican.Mothra said:Osodecentx said:You may be right; I voted for TrumpMothra said:Osodecentx said:You're right, I don't put party first. You're a good "base" voter; "my party right or wrong".Mothra said:Osodecentx said:I think some here would say that Trump excited the Republican base in 2020. He lost moderates and independents and lost by millions of votes, but he excited the base.Mothra said:Osodecentx said:What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Aren't moderate Republicans part of the base or is it only voters who refuse to vote for the Republican if it is a moderate?Mothra said:Osodecentx said:What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)Mothra said:Guy Noir said:
I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.
Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications
Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.
It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.
While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.
In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less
So you think a more moderate candidate would fire up the base to turn out the vote and sway moderates? What is the last moderate that got elected? And on what issues do you feel moderation is necessary?
The Romney's, McCain's and Kasich's of the world may sway some independents and milquetoast "conservatives" such as yourself, but it generally keeps the base from turning out the vote. This has been true of every election for decades. Moderates who deviate from the base on issues generally don't get elected. This has been true for decades.
I think there are areas that conservatives can find common ground with most Americans, especially when it comes to the economy and crime. And it's been true for generations that economic issues are most likely to turn out the vote.
Look at Rawhide's post about three of four posts below, 9:04 AM today. He says he didn't vote for McCain or Romney and wouldn't have voted for Kasich. You seem to blame "miliquetoast conservatives for the election of Biden. What about "miliquetoast conservatives" like Raw who, by your reasoning, gave us Obama twice and Clinton twice?
I don't agree with Rawhide's approach. I'm a pragmatist and so I don't agree with his approach or your approach. If it was between Kasich and Biden, I'd absolutely vote Kasich.
But the statistics have shown that if the Republican candidate fails to excite the base, they don't turn out to vote. And generally moderate candidates simply don't excite the base. And when the base doesn't turn out to vote republicans lose. History has proven this.
Why do you think only conservative Republicans are the base? Why aren't moderates the Republican base?
If Trump wins the fringe and loses moderates and independents, he loses.
What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Is it conservative or moderate?
In political terms, the base is the block of voters who are very unlikely to vote for the candidate of an opposing party, regardless of the specific views each candidate holds. In short they're not turncoats who will cast a vote for Biden if they don't like the Republican party's candidate, such as a number of Never Trumpers. In most elections it's important for the candidate to excite the base. If they sit it out - like they did during the McCain and Romney elections, then the republicans have little chance of winning.
Now that does not mean the Republican candidate doesn't need to attract at least some independents and moderates. Indeed he or she does, as Trump did in 2016. But exciting the base is typically more important because they're the ones who turn out the vote. If they decide to sit it out, the republican candidate is in trouble.
When they start appealing to wishy washy Luke warms such as yourself who really aren't all that conservative or concerned with conservative polices, republicans lose. That's a proven losing strategy time and time again.
Trump is no conservative. A party that continues to protect and promote him is not worthy of support. His actions after the election and especially Jan 6 are a disqualification. Trump is bad for the country and bad for the Republican Party.
I agree with your definition of "base voter". I put the base vote at about 20% of the general election voters for Republicans but that is just a guess.
I realized back in 2020 that Biden would be a disaster, and I have been proven right with each passing day. He has done lasting harm to our country. Your approach to voting has likewise proven a disaster.
Unlike you, I put values and integrity first. I'll vote country over Party
Let's not pretend that you haven't said on this very thread if you had to do it all over again you wouldn't vote Trump. Instead you would choose the current disaster.
And despite whatever you would like to fool yourself into believing, that is not putting country first.
And you aren't putting the country first with blind devotion to a political party. I'll put integrity and character before a party
The results have shown a vote for anyone but Trump if you are a conservative was a huge mistake. You chose poorly.
The GA phone call stories were substantially accurate. Trump's spinmeisters are leaning heavily, and very dishonestly, on a couple of immaterial misquotes that were soon enough corrected.4th and Inches said:it's interesting that your poll quotes 60% of Americans believe in what they're hearing from the J6 committee yet nobody's watching it according to TV ratings. We're supposed to believe Adam the great in what he said on TV yesterday but he's been wrong about just everything related to Trump the Russia stuff, the phone calls stuff.(nice retraction from the press on misquoting Trump on the GA phone calls)C. Jordan said:https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/10-americans-trump-charged-jan-riot-poll/story?id=854823694th and Inches said:link to the poll and its cross tabs please and thanks!C. Jordan said:
Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.
Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.
It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.
What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.
The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."
Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.
Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.
Its never encouraging to cite an ABC poll..
91% of Democrats, 21% of Republicans, and what should be most worrying for you, 62% of independents.
Also, 60% of Americans believe the committee has been fair.
You can diss the messenger all you want, but it shows the committee is being effective with people who aren't in the cult.
Serious questions:
How can you dismiss the testimony of people who were not only conservative Republicans but who both voted for Trump and campaigned for him?
How can you excuse Trump's vilification of poll workers, who were guilty of nothing but doing their jobs?
Those same indies are polling as voting with Trump if the 2024 election waa held today..
Stop being a useful idiot..
Prosecute Trump, I dont care..I do care that our current govt keeps lying to the American people. The people deserve better than focusing on the past.
That is actually a terrible number. The majority of people tuning in for this dog and pony show are disproportionally Left-Liberal.4th and Inches said:it's interesting that your poll quotes 60% of Americans believe in what they're hearing from the J6 committee yet nobody's watching it according to TV ratings. We're supposed to believe Adam the great in what he said on TV yesterday but he's been wrong about just everything related to Trump the Russia stuff, the phone calls stuff.(nice retraction from the press on misquoting Trump on the GA phone calls)C. Jordan said:https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/10-americans-trump-charged-jan-riot-poll/story?id=854823694th and Inches said:link to the poll and its cross tabs please and thanks!C. Jordan said:
Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.
Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.
It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.
What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.
The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."
Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.
Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.
Its never encouraging to cite an ABC poll..
91% of Democrats, 21% of Republicans, and what should be most worrying for you, 62% of independents.
Also, 60% of Americans believe the committee has been fair.
You can diss the messenger all you want, but it shows the committee is being effective with people who aren't in the cult.
Serious questions:
How can you dismiss the testimony of people who were not only conservative Republicans but who both voted for Trump and campaigned for him?
How can you excuse Trump's vilification of poll workers, who were guilty of nothing but doing their jobs?
90% should be believing what they hear.
I honestly can't believe it's that low.
It's 60% of Americans, not 60% of viewers. That's up from about 50% before the hearings.Redbrickbear said:That is actually a terrible number. The majority of people tuning in for this dog and pony show are disproportionally Left-Liberal.4th and Inches said:it's interesting that your poll quotes 60% of Americans believe in what they're hearing from the J6 committee yet nobody's watching it according to TV ratings. We're supposed to believe Adam the great in what he said on TV yesterday but he's been wrong about just everything related to Trump the Russia stuff, the phone calls stuff.(nice retraction from the press on misquoting Trump on the GA phone calls)C. Jordan said:https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/10-americans-trump-charged-jan-riot-poll/story?id=854823694th and Inches said:link to the poll and its cross tabs please and thanks!C. Jordan said:
Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.
Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.
It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.
What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.
The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."
Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.
Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.
Its never encouraging to cite an ABC poll..
91% of Democrats, 21% of Republicans, and what should be most worrying for you, 62% of independents.
Also, 60% of Americans believe the committee has been fair.
You can diss the messenger all you want, but it shows the committee is being effective with people who aren't in the cult.
Serious questions:
How can you dismiss the testimony of people who were not only conservative Republicans but who both voted for Trump and campaigned for him?
How can you excuse Trump's vilification of poll workers, who were guilty of nothing but doing their jobs?
90% should be believing what they hear.
I honestly can't believe it's that low.