A federal judge on Monday refused to delay Stephen K. Bannon's trial next week after the Justice Department called an offer by the former Trump aide to testify before the House committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection a "last-ditch attempt to avoid accountability" on charges of criminal contempt of Congress.whiterock said:Osodecentx said:Bannon to testifyRMF5630 said:Who knows, 2nd Amendment demonstration that they should be able to carry? As OldBear said, they did not use them even though Capitol Police did.Osodecentx said:The rioters were actually armed. Some had guns4th and Inches said:deep down I am believing that riots typically have armed demonstrators..Osodecentx said:Deep down, I'm believing contemporaneous police observations. Armed demonstrators are a significant finding.whiterock said:This post shows that, deep down, you know you've lost the argument and are hanging on to an insignificant detail.Osodecentx said:
Trump said he was disappointed in Pence to the rallyQuote:Walking outside in Texas, more than 75% chance you are standing near a person who is armed. It is legal in Texas, not so in DCQuote:If they are armed, as their leader well knowsQuote:"lets walk to the capitol.." sounds terrifying, at least it wasnt hot outsideQuote:"I'm disappointed in Pence, he didn't do the right thing"Quote:
So, you tell someone you are disappointed in your kid and that is a signal to your neighbors to hang them???? You guys are really reaching to create something not there.
Trump knows rioters are armed
"Let's walk to the Capitol, I'll go with you"
Trump orders the SS agents to take him to the Capitol
Just because People carry weapons doesnt mean they are going to shoot you. I agree
Maybe they were worried about their personal safety because they had seen the clashes with Antifa. Maybe, but it is illegal in DC
There were plenty of those that broke out in DC during that 2 day period of the 5th and 6th If you say so
Here's the facts:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/armed-insurrection-what-weapons-capitol-rioters-carry
10 months after J6, FBI still had not found any evidence that firearms were used in the J6 riot. Sure, time might have uncovered another gun or three in the general vicinity of the riot. Yet here you are, making the case that Trump was told someone was arrested with a gun and still wanted to go to the Capitol, thereby providing the conclusive turn in the case which makes him leader of an insurrectionist. The list of "weapons" noted at link is carried at almost any riot, so if we are to accept the premise of your argument, ANY riot is an insurrection.
If you are going to push the Reichstag Fire nonsense, you could do a much better job than you are doing here.
How many guns were fired at the capital that day? We all know the answer.. we all know the results.
Maybe, just maybe, those guns were not for what you think they were but what they are actually for..
What were the guns actually for?
Once again, does actions (what they actually did) outweigh speculation or supposition?
Bannon, Facing Jail and Fines, Agrees to Testify to Jan. 6 Panel
Stephen K. Bannon, the former Trump campaign manager and White House adviser, made the abrupt about-face after the former president authorized him to talk to investigators.
WASHINGTON With his criminal trial for contempt of Congress approaching, Stephen K. Bannon, an ally of former President Donald J. Trump's who was involved in his plans to overturn the 2020 election, has informed the House committee investigating the Capitol attack that he is now willing to testify, according to two letters obtained by The New York Times.
His decision is a remarkable about-face for Mr. Bannon, who until Saturday had been among the most obstinate and defiant of the committee's potential witnesses. He had promised to turn the criminal case against him into the "misdemeanor from hell" for the Justice Department.
But with the possibility of two years in jail and large fines looming on the horizon, Mr. Bannon has been authorized to testify by Mr. Trump, his lawyer told the committee late on Saturday in a letter, which was reported earlier by The Guardian.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/10/us/politics/bannon-jan-6-trump.html
….(yawn)…..
Jan 6 committee
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Last: 7 mo ago by Harrison Bergeron
Sam Lowry said:
“Mix a little foolishness with your serious plans. It is lovely to be silly at the right moment.”
–Horace
“Insomnia sharpens your math skills because you spend all night calculating how much sleep you’ll get if you’re able to ‘fall asleep right now.’ “
–Horace
“Insomnia sharpens your math skills because you spend all night calculating how much sleep you’ll get if you’re able to ‘fall asleep right now.’ “
Jake Tapper: "One doesn’t have to be brilliant to attempt a coup."
— Justin Baragona (@justinbaragona) July 12, 2022
John Bolton: "I disagree with that. As somebody who has helped plan coup d’etat, not here, but other places, it takes a lot of work." pic.twitter.com/REyqh3KtHi
Today, July 12, 2022 was another public hearing.
The focus was on the deposition of Whitehouse Council Cipollone, a Dec 16 tweet, and plans to overturn the election on Jan 6th.
The focus was on the deposition of Whitehouse Council Cipollone, a Dec 16 tweet, and plans to overturn the election on Jan 6th.
boring!Guy Noir said:
Today, July 12, 2022 was another public hearing.
The focus was on the deposition of Whitehouse Council Pat Cipione, a Dec 16 tweet, and plans to overturn the election on Jan 6th.
Trump calling a witness is way more fun! What a dumbass! LoL
“Mix a little foolishness with your serious plans. It is lovely to be silly at the right moment.”
–Horace
“Insomnia sharpens your math skills because you spend all night calculating how much sleep you’ll get if you’re able to ‘fall asleep right now.’ “
–Horace
“Insomnia sharpens your math skills because you spend all night calculating how much sleep you’ll get if you’re able to ‘fall asleep right now.’ “
Cipollone backed Cassidy Hutchinson's account of the Jan 6 eventsGuy Noir said:
Today, July 12, 2022 was another public hearing.
The focus was on the deposition of Whitehouse Council Pat Cipione, a Dec 16 tweet, and plans to overturn the election on Jan 6th.
Osodecentx said:Cipollone backed Cassidy Hutchinson's account of the Jan 6 eventsGuy Noir said:
Today, July 12, 2022 was another public hearing.
The focus was on the deposition of Whitehouse Council Pat Cipione, a Dec 16 tweet, and plans to overturn the election on Jan 6th.
Wow. A thrown LuAnn platter.
Okay, now be honest...did Oldbear help you with that?4th and Inches said:
Sam Lowry said:Okay, now be honest...did Oldbear help you with that?4th and Inches said:
“Mix a little foolishness with your serious plans. It is lovely to be silly at the right moment.”
–Horace
“Insomnia sharpens your math skills because you spend all night calculating how much sleep you’ll get if you’re able to ‘fall asleep right now.’ “
–Horace
“Insomnia sharpens your math skills because you spend all night calculating how much sleep you’ll get if you’re able to ‘fall asleep right now.’ “
Osodecentx said:Cipollone backed Cassidy Hutchinson's account of the Jan 6 eventsGuy Noir said:
Today, July 12, 2022 was another public hearing.
The focus was on the deposition of Whitehouse Council Pat Cipione, a Dec 16 tweet, and plans to overturn the election on Jan 6th.
Can you provide a link? I can't find his testimony. I have seen reports he didn't contradict, confirmed some points and took Executive Privilege. I am.lookinh for the questions on confirming what she said? Thanks
SorryRMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:Cipollone backed Cassidy Hutchinson's account of the Jan 6 eventsGuy Noir said:
Today, July 12, 2022 was another public hearing.
The focus was on the deposition of Whitehouse Council Pat Cipione, a Dec 16 tweet, and plans to overturn the election on Jan 6th.
Can you provide a link? I can't find his testimony. I have seen reports he didn't contradict, confirmed some points and took Executive Privilege. I am.lookinh for the questions on confirming what she said? Thanks
https://www.newsweek.com/cipollone-corroborated-key-elements-hutchinsons-1-6-testimony-mulvey-1723225
Are we done yet?
John Bolton: Capitol riot, I served with Coup d'état. I knew Coup d'état. Coup d'état was a friend of mine. Capitol riot, you're no Coup d'état.
— Jerry Dunleavy (@JerryDunleavy) July 13, 2022
I've been saying that pretty consistently.Cobretti said:John Bolton: Capitol riot, I served with Coup d'état. I knew Coup d'état. Coup d'état was a friend of mine. Capitol riot, you're no Coup d'état.
— Jerry Dunleavy (@JerryDunleavy) July 13, 2022
Article does not support its own headline. Only 1 "key fact" (not really a material fact at all) was corroborated.Osodecentx said:SorryRMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:Cipollone backed Cassidy Hutchinson's account of the Jan 6 eventsGuy Noir said:
Today, July 12, 2022 was another public hearing.
The focus was on the deposition of Whitehouse Council Pat Cipione, a Dec 16 tweet, and plans to overturn the election on Jan 6th.
Can you provide a link? I can't find his testimony. I have seen reports he didn't contradict, confirmed some points and took Executive Privilege. I am.lookinh for the questions on confirming what she said? Thanks
https://www.newsweek.com/cipollone-corroborated-key-elements-hutchinsons-1-6-testimony-mulvey-1723225
The headline does not support your statement in bold.
Expect to be disappointed when actual testimony emerges.
Osodecentx said:SorryRMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:Cipollone backed Cassidy Hutchinson's account of the Jan 6 eventsGuy Noir said:
Today, July 12, 2022 was another public hearing.
The focus was on the deposition of Whitehouse Council Pat Cipione, a Dec 16 tweet, and plans to overturn the election on Jan 6th.
Can you provide a link? I can't find his testimony. I have seen reports he didn't contradict, confirmed some points and took Executive Privilege. I am.lookinh for the questions on confirming what she said? Thanks
https://www.newsweek.com/cipollone-corroborated-key-elements-hutchinsons-1-6-testimony-mulvey-1723225
What was corroborated? It didn't say?
You make a fair point.RMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:SorryRMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:Cipollone backed Cassidy Hutchinson's account of the Jan 6 eventsGuy Noir said:
Today, July 12, 2022 was another public hearing.
The focus was on the deposition of Whitehouse Council Pat Cipione, a Dec 16 tweet, and plans to overturn the election on Jan 6th.
Can you provide a link? I can't find his testimony. I have seen reports he didn't contradict, confirmed some points and took Executive Privilege. I am.lookinh for the questions on confirming what she said? Thanks
https://www.newsweek.com/cipollone-corroborated-key-elements-hutchinsons-1-6-testimony-mulvey-1723225
What was corroborated? It didn't say?
As I re-read the accounts, the stories quote a Democrat member of the Committee, Raskin. I can't find a transcript of Cipollone's entire testimony. So I'll say it is uncorroborated at this time.
Cipollone corroborated virtually everything from Hutchinson, Jan. 6 panel member says
WASHINGTON Trump White House counsel Pat Cipollone corroborated virtually all of the revelations from previous witnesses, including former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson, in lengthy testimony before the panel last week, a top Jan. 6 committee member told NBC News.
"Cipollone has corroborated almost everything that we've learned from the prior hearings," Rep. Jamie Raskin, D-Md., said in an exclusive interview just hours before the next hearing. "I certainly did not hear him contradict Cassidy Hutchinson. … He had the opportunity to say whatever he wanted to say, so I didn't see any contradiction there."
It was unclear if Cipollone was directly asked by investigators about the specifics of some of the more explosive aspects of Hutchinson's testimony including that they would be charged with "every crime imaginable" if Trump went to the Capitol on Jan. 6.
https://news.yahoo.com/cipollone-corroborated-virtually-everything-hutchinson-110035689.html
Where I have a problem is that all of this is corroborating circumstantial tid-bits. That is insinuating that Trump may have been involved, was mad/didn't accept he lost and is an *******. I have not seen anything that ties him to the Congressional break-in or that the purpose was a Trump inspired plot to overthrow the US Government/election.Osodecentx said:You make a fair point.RMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:SorryRMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:Cipollone backed Cassidy Hutchinson's account of the Jan 6 eventsGuy Noir said:
Today, July 12, 2022 was another public hearing.
The focus was on the deposition of Whitehouse Council Pat Cipione, a Dec 16 tweet, and plans to overturn the election on Jan 6th.
Can you provide a link? I can't find his testimony. I have seen reports he didn't contradict, confirmed some points and took Executive Privilege. I am.lookinh for the questions on confirming what she said? Thanks
https://www.newsweek.com/cipollone-corroborated-key-elements-hutchinsons-1-6-testimony-mulvey-1723225
What was corroborated? It didn't say?
As I re-read the accounts, the stories quote a Democrat member of the Committee, Raskin. I can't find a transcript of Cipollone's entire testimony. So I'll say it is uncorroborated at this time.
Cipollone corroborated virtually everything from Hutchinson, Jan. 6 panel member says
WASHINGTON Trump White House counsel Pat Cipollone corroborated virtually all of the revelations from previous witnesses, including former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson, in lengthy testimony before the panel last week, a top Jan. 6 committee member told NBC News.
"Cipollone has corroborated almost everything that we've learned from the prior hearings," Rep. Jamie Raskin, D-Md., said in an exclusive interview just hours before the next hearing. "I certainly did not hear him contradict Cassidy Hutchinson. … He had the opportunity to say whatever he wanted to say, so I didn't see any contradiction there."
It was unclear if Cipollone was directly asked by investigators about the specifics of some of the more explosive aspects of Hutchinson's testimony including that they would be charged with "every crime imaginable" if Trump went to the Capitol on Jan. 6.
https://news.yahoo.com/cipollone-corroborated-virtually-everything-hutchinson-110035689.html
Trump Sought to Conceal Plans for March to Capitol, Panel SaysRMF5630 said:Where I have a problem is that all of this is corroborating circumstantial tid-bits. That is insinuating that Trump may have been involved, was mad/didn't accept he lost and is an *******. I have not seen anything that ties him to the Congressional break-in or that the purpose was a Trump inspired plot to overthrow the US Government/election.Osodecentx said:You make a fair point.RMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:SorryRMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:Cipollone backed Cassidy Hutchinson's account of the Jan 6 eventsGuy Noir said:
Today, July 12, 2022 was another public hearing.
The focus was on the deposition of Whitehouse Council Pat Cipione, a Dec 16 tweet, and plans to overturn the election on Jan 6th.
Can you provide a link? I can't find his testimony. I have seen reports he didn't contradict, confirmed some points and took Executive Privilege. I am.lookinh for the questions on confirming what she said? Thanks
https://www.newsweek.com/cipollone-corroborated-key-elements-hutchinsons-1-6-testimony-mulvey-1723225
What was corroborated? It didn't say?
As I re-read the accounts, the stories quote a Democrat member of the Committee, Raskin. I can't find a transcript of Cipollone's entire testimony. So I'll say it is uncorroborated at this time.
Cipollone corroborated virtually everything from Hutchinson, Jan. 6 panel member says
WASHINGTON Trump White House counsel Pat Cipollone corroborated virtually all of the revelations from previous witnesses, including former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson, in lengthy testimony before the panel last week, a top Jan. 6 committee member told NBC News.
"Cipollone has corroborated almost everything that we've learned from the prior hearings," Rep. Jamie Raskin, D-Md., said in an exclusive interview just hours before the next hearing. "I certainly did not hear him contradict Cassidy Hutchinson. … He had the opportunity to say whatever he wanted to say, so I didn't see any contradiction there."
It was unclear if Cipollone was directly asked by investigators about the specifics of some of the more explosive aspects of Hutchinson's testimony including that they would be charged with "every crime imaginable" if Trump went to the Capitol on Jan. 6.
https://news.yahoo.com/cipollone-corroborated-virtually-everything-hutchinson-110035689.html
WASHINGTON President Donald J. Trump attempted to make the Jan. 6, 2021, march on the Capitol appear spontaneous even as he and his team intentionally assembled and galvanized a violence-prone mob to disrupt certification of his electoral defeat, the House committee investigating the attack showed on Tuesday.
"POTUS is going to have us march there/the Capitol," Kylie Jane Kremer, an organizer of the "Save America" rally on Jan. 6, wrote in a Jan. 4 textshown by the panel on Tuesday as it detailed Mr. Trump's efforts to gather his backers in Washington for a final, last-ditch effort to overturn his loss. Ms. Kremer added that Mr. Trump was "going to just call for it 'unexpectedly.'"
Mr. Trump weighed announcing the move, according to documents obtained from the National Archives, which provided the investigators with a draft tweet that said: "I will be making a Big Speech at 10AM on January 6th at the Ellipse (South of the White House). Please arrive early, massive crowds expected. March to the Capitol after. Stop the Steal!!"
The tweet was never sent. But it was the latest evidence presented by the committee of how Mr. Trump undertook a public and private effort to channel angry supporters, including right-wing extremists, toward the Capitol, where Vice President Mike Pence and lawmakers were gathered to confirm Joseph R. Biden Jr. as the president-elect.
For more than a year, Mr. Trump and his defenders have described the violence at the Capitol as a freewheeling peaceful protest gone awry. But the hearing on Tuesday laid out how the former president took a guiding role not only in bringing the mob fueled by his election lies to Washington that day, but also in the plan to direct it up to Capitol Hill, disregarding the advice of his closest aides.
"Donald Trump summoned a mob to Washington, D.C., and ultimately spurred that mob to wage a violent attack on our democracy," said Representative Bennie Thompson, Democrat of Mississippi and the chairman of the committee.
In its seventh hearing to lay out its findings, the committee situated Mr. Trump at the center of the quasi-legal efforts to derail the political process and also at the heart of the unprecedented chaos at the Capitol. Over nearly three hours, it introduced evidence from rally organizers, rioters and aides inside the White House who said the former president had inspired and directed what transpired that day.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/12/us/jan-6-panel-trump.html
Leading a crowd up to make a demonstration while making it appear to be spontaneous is not insurrection. It is good political theater that establishment Republicans think they're too good to engage in.Osodecentx said:Trump Sought to Conceal Plans for March to Capitol, Panel SaysRMF5630 said:Where I have a problem is that all of this is corroborating circumstantial tid-bits. That is insinuating that Trump may have been involved, was mad/didn't accept he lost and is an *******. I have not seen anything that ties him to the Congressional break-in or that the purpose was a Trump inspired plot to overthrow the US Government/election.Osodecentx said:You make a fair point.RMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:SorryRMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:Cipollone backed Cassidy Hutchinson's account of the Jan 6 eventsGuy Noir said:
Today, July 12, 2022 was another public hearing.
The focus was on the deposition of Whitehouse Council Pat Cipione, a Dec 16 tweet, and plans to overturn the election on Jan 6th.
Can you provide a link? I can't find his testimony. I have seen reports he didn't contradict, confirmed some points and took Executive Privilege. I am.lookinh for the questions on confirming what she said? Thanks
https://www.newsweek.com/cipollone-corroborated-key-elements-hutchinsons-1-6-testimony-mulvey-1723225
What was corroborated? It didn't say?
As I re-read the accounts, the stories quote a Democrat member of the Committee, Raskin. I can't find a transcript of Cipollone's entire testimony. So I'll say it is uncorroborated at this time.
Cipollone corroborated virtually everything from Hutchinson, Jan. 6 panel member says
WASHINGTON Trump White House counsel Pat Cipollone corroborated virtually all of the revelations from previous witnesses, including former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson, in lengthy testimony before the panel last week, a top Jan. 6 committee member told NBC News.
"Cipollone has corroborated almost everything that we've learned from the prior hearings," Rep. Jamie Raskin, D-Md., said in an exclusive interview just hours before the next hearing. "I certainly did not hear him contradict Cassidy Hutchinson. … He had the opportunity to say whatever he wanted to say, so I didn't see any contradiction there."
It was unclear if Cipollone was directly asked by investigators about the specifics of some of the more explosive aspects of Hutchinson's testimony including that they would be charged with "every crime imaginable" if Trump went to the Capitol on Jan. 6.
https://news.yahoo.com/cipollone-corroborated-virtually-everything-hutchinson-110035689.html
WASHINGTON President Donald J. Trump attempted to make the Jan. 6, 2021, march on the Capitol appear spontaneous even as he and his team intentionally assembled and galvanized a violence-prone mob to disrupt certification of his electoral defeat, the House committee investigating the attack showed on Tuesday.
"POTUS is going to have us march there/the Capitol," Kylie Jane Kremer, an organizer of the "Save America" rally on Jan. 6, wrote in a Jan. 4 textshown by the panel on Tuesday as it detailed Mr. Trump's efforts to gather his backers in Washington for a final, last-ditch effort to overturn his loss. Ms. Kremer added that Mr. Trump was "going to just call for it 'unexpectedly.'"
Mr. Trump weighed announcing the move, according to documents obtained from the National Archives, which provided the investigators with a draft tweet that said: "I will be making a Big Speech at 10AM on January 6th at the Ellipse (South of the White House). Please arrive early, massive crowds expected. March to the Capitol after. Stop the Steal!!"
The tweet was never sent. But it was the latest evidence presented by the committee of how Mr. Trump undertook a public and private effort to channel angry supporters, including right-wing extremists, toward the Capitol, where Vice President Mike Pence and lawmakers were gathered to confirm Joseph R. Biden Jr. as the president-elect.
For more than a year, Mr. Trump and his defenders have described the violence at the Capitol as a freewheeling peaceful protest gone awry. But the hearing on Tuesday laid out how the former president took a guiding role not only in bringing the mob fueled by his election lies to Washington that day, but also in the plan to direct it up to Capitol Hill, disregarding the advice of his closest aides.
"Donald Trump summoned a mob to Washington, D.C., and ultimately spurred that mob to wage a violent attack on our democracy," said Representative Bennie Thompson, Democrat of Mississippi and the chairman of the committee.
In its seventh hearing to lay out its findings, the committee situated Mr. Trump at the center of the quasi-legal efforts to derail the political process and also at the heart of the unprecedented chaos at the Capitol. Over nearly three hours, it introduced evidence from rally organizers, rioters and aides inside the White House who said the former president had inspired and directed what transpired that day.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/12/us/jan-6-panel-trump.html
A man who joined the pro-Trump mob that attacked the U.S. Capitol apologized Tuesday to officers who protected the building after telling lawmakers that he regrets being duped by the former president's lies of election fraud.whiterock said:Leading a crowd up to make a demonstration while making it appear to be spontaneous is not insurrection. It is good political theater that establishment Republicans think they're too good to engage in.Osodecentx said:Trump Sought to Conceal Plans for March to Capitol, Panel SaysRMF5630 said:Where I have a problem is that all of this is corroborating circumstantial tid-bits. That is insinuating that Trump may have been involved, was mad/didn't accept he lost and is an *******. I have not seen anything that ties him to the Congressional break-in or that the purpose was a Trump inspired plot to overthrow the US Government/election.Osodecentx said:You make a fair point.RMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:SorryRMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:Cipollone backed Cassidy Hutchinson's account of the Jan 6 eventsGuy Noir said:
Today, July 12, 2022 was another public hearing.
The focus was on the deposition of Whitehouse Council Pat Cipione, a Dec 16 tweet, and plans to overturn the election on Jan 6th.
Can you provide a link? I can't find his testimony. I have seen reports he didn't contradict, confirmed some points and took Executive Privilege. I am.lookinh for the questions on confirming what she said? Thanks
https://www.newsweek.com/cipollone-corroborated-key-elements-hutchinsons-1-6-testimony-mulvey-1723225
What was corroborated? It didn't say?
As I re-read the accounts, the stories quote a Democrat member of the Committee, Raskin. I can't find a transcript of Cipollone's entire testimony. So I'll say it is uncorroborated at this time.
Cipollone corroborated virtually everything from Hutchinson, Jan. 6 panel member says
WASHINGTON Trump White House counsel Pat Cipollone corroborated virtually all of the revelations from previous witnesses, including former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson, in lengthy testimony before the panel last week, a top Jan. 6 committee member told NBC News.
"Cipollone has corroborated almost everything that we've learned from the prior hearings," Rep. Jamie Raskin, D-Md., said in an exclusive interview just hours before the next hearing. "I certainly did not hear him contradict Cassidy Hutchinson. … He had the opportunity to say whatever he wanted to say, so I didn't see any contradiction there."
It was unclear if Cipollone was directly asked by investigators about the specifics of some of the more explosive aspects of Hutchinson's testimony including that they would be charged with "every crime imaginable" if Trump went to the Capitol on Jan. 6.
https://news.yahoo.com/cipollone-corroborated-virtually-everything-hutchinson-110035689.html
WASHINGTON President Donald J. Trump attempted to make the Jan. 6, 2021, march on the Capitol appear spontaneous even as he and his team intentionally assembled and galvanized a violence-prone mob to disrupt certification of his electoral defeat, the House committee investigating the attack showed on Tuesday.
"POTUS is going to have us march there/the Capitol," Kylie Jane Kremer, an organizer of the "Save America" rally on Jan. 6, wrote in a Jan. 4 textshown by the panel on Tuesday as it detailed Mr. Trump's efforts to gather his backers in Washington for a final, last-ditch effort to overturn his loss. Ms. Kremer added that Mr. Trump was "going to just call for it 'unexpectedly.'"
Mr. Trump weighed announcing the move, according to documents obtained from the National Archives, which provided the investigators with a draft tweet that said: "I will be making a Big Speech at 10AM on January 6th at the Ellipse (South of the White House). Please arrive early, massive crowds expected. March to the Capitol after. Stop the Steal!!"
The tweet was never sent. But it was the latest evidence presented by the committee of how Mr. Trump undertook a public and private effort to channel angry supporters, including right-wing extremists, toward the Capitol, where Vice President Mike Pence and lawmakers were gathered to confirm Joseph R. Biden Jr. as the president-elect.
For more than a year, Mr. Trump and his defenders have described the violence at the Capitol as a freewheeling peaceful protest gone awry. But the hearing on Tuesday laid out how the former president took a guiding role not only in bringing the mob fueled by his election lies to Washington that day, but also in the plan to direct it up to Capitol Hill, disregarding the advice of his closest aides.
"Donald Trump summoned a mob to Washington, D.C., and ultimately spurred that mob to wage a violent attack on our democracy," said Representative Bennie Thompson, Democrat of Mississippi and the chairman of the committee.
In its seventh hearing to lay out its findings, the committee situated Mr. Trump at the center of the quasi-legal efforts to derail the political process and also at the heart of the unprecedented chaos at the Capitol. Over nearly three hours, it introduced evidence from rally organizers, rioters and aides inside the White House who said the former president had inspired and directed what transpired that day.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/12/us/jan-6-panel-trump.html
During a hearing before the U.S. House committee that's investigating the insurrection, Stephen Ayres testified that he felt called by former President Donald Trump to come to Washington on Jan. 6, 2021.
He described being swept up by Trump's bogus claims, and believing as he marched to the Capitol that Trump would join them there and that there was still a chance the election could be overturned.
"I felt like I had like horse blinders on. I was locked in the whole time," said Ayres, who is scheduled to be sentenced in September after pleading guilty to a misdemeanor in the riot.
Ayres described being a loyal follower of Trump on social media before Jan. 6 and said he felt he needed to heed the president's call to come to Washington, D.C., for the "Stop the Steal" rally.
"I was very upset, as were most of his supporters," Ayres said when asked about Trump's unfounded election claims. Asked by Rep. Liz Cheney if he still believes the election was stolen, Ayres said, "Not so much now."
Ayres said he wasn't planning to storm the Capitol before Trump's speech "got everybody riled up." He had believed the president would be joining them at the Capitol.
"Basically, we were just following what he said," Ayres said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/jan-6-rioter-apologizes-to-officers-after-house-testimony/2022/07/12/d2bb796e-022f-11ed-8beb-2b4e481b1500_story.html
lol... samuel and oso still on this thread trying to convince people that the riot was really an insurrection.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that they haven't been able to fool anyone into believing their assertions.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that they haven't been able to fool anyone into believing their assertions.
almost everything you and Sam are posting undermines the case for insurrection.Osodecentx said:
Where I have a problem is that all of this is corroborating circumstantial tid-bits. That is insinuating that Trump may have been involved, was mad/didn't accept he lost and is an *******. I have not seen anything that ties him to the Congressional break-in or that the purpose was a Trump inspired plot to overthrow the US Government/election.A man who joined the pro-Trump mob that attacked the U.S. Capitol apologized Tuesday to officers who protected the building after telling lawmakers that he regrets being duped by the former president's lies of election fraud.Quote:Leading a crowd up to make a demonstration while making it appear to be spontaneous is not insurrection. It is good political theater that establishment Republicans think they're too good to engage in.Quote:
Trump Sought to Conceal Plans for March to Capitol, Panel Says
WASHINGTON President Donald J. Trump attempted to make the Jan. 6, 2021, march on the Capitol appear spontaneous even as he and his team intentionally assembled and galvanized a violence-prone mob to disrupt certification of his electoral defeat, the House committee investigating the attack showed on Tuesday.
"POTUS is going to have us march there/the Capitol," Kylie Jane Kremer, an organizer of the "Save America" rally on Jan. 6, wrote in a Jan. 4 textshown by the panel on Tuesday as it detailed Mr. Trump's efforts to gather his backers in Washington for a final, last-ditch effort to overturn his loss. Ms. Kremer added that Mr. Trump was "going to just call for it 'unexpectedly.'"
Mr. Trump weighed announcing the move, according to documents obtained from the National Archives, which provided the investigators with a draft tweet that said: "I will be making a Big Speech at 10AM on January 6th at the Ellipse (South of the White House). Please arrive early, massive crowds expected. March to the Capitol after. Stop the Steal!!"
The tweet was never sent. But it was the latest evidence presented by the committee of how Mr. Trump undertook a public and private effort to channel angry supporters, including right-wing extremists, toward the Capitol, where Vice President Mike Pence and lawmakers were gathered to confirm Joseph R. Biden Jr. as the president-elect.
For more than a year, Mr. Trump and his defenders have described the violence at the Capitol as a freewheeling peaceful protest gone awry. But the hearing on Tuesday laid out how the former president took a guiding role not only in bringing the mob fueled by his election lies to Washington that day, but also in the plan to direct it up to Capitol Hill, disregarding the advice of his closest aides.
"Donald Trump summoned a mob to Washington, D.C., and ultimately spurred that mob to wage a violent attack on our democracy," said Representative Bennie Thompson, Democrat of Mississippi and the chairman of the committee.
In its seventh hearing to lay out its findings, the committee situated Mr. Trump at the center of the quasi-legal efforts to derail the political process and also at the heart of the unprecedented chaos at the Capitol. Over nearly three hours, it introduced evidence from rally organizers, rioters and aides inside the White House who said the former president had inspired and directed what transpired that day.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/12/us/jan-6-panel-trump.html
During a hearing before the U.S. House committee that's investigating the insurrection, Stephen Ayres testified that he felt called by former President Donald Trump to come to Washington on Jan. 6, 2021.
He described being swept up by Trump's bogus claims, and believing as he marched to the Capitol that Trump would join them there and that there was still a chance the election could be overturned.
"I felt like I had like horse blinders on. I was locked in the whole time," said Ayres, who is scheduled to be sentenced in September after pleading guilty to a misdemeanor in the riot.
Ayres described being a loyal follower of Trump on social media before Jan. 6 and said he felt he needed to heed the president's call to come to Washington, D.C., for the "Stop the Steal" rally.
"I was very upset, as were most of his supporters," Ayres said when asked about Trump's unfounded election claims. Asked by Rep. Liz Cheney if he still believes the election was stolen, Ayres said, "Not so much now."
Ayres said he wasn't planning to storm the Capitol before Trump's speech "got everybody riled up." He had believed the president would be joining them at the Capitol.
"Basically, we were just following what he said," Ayres said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/jan-6-rioter-apologizes-to-officers-after-house-testimony/2022/07/12/d2bb796e-022f-11ed-8beb-2b4e481b1500_story.html
We have the Trump speech on transcript and video. He said not a single word or phrase the could reasonably be inferred as incitement, and made several comments urging peaceful action.
You have done a very, very good job of building a case that by not conceding the election and making allegations of fraud, he energized his base to base to assemble and protest. I agree entirely. But those are protected 1st Amendment rights. And you clearly make that case within a traditional Republican context of "we do not act like Democrats...we do not protest, and we damned sure do not riot." Ok, Fair enough. I get that. It's virtue posturing nonsense, but I see/hear that a lot on our side, a lot less than before, thankfully, but you're not in cray-cray land yet. Where you explode your analytical credibility is when you take the leap of logic that, because a small riot broke out amid an enormous and otherwise peaceful protest, Trump is an insurrectionist, that he did it all hoping to cause an insurrection, etc..... There is no evidence of that, at all, not a shred, other than the assessments of like minded people (can you spell confirmation bias?). Just a psychologically-driven need to perceive events in a way that justify the rage you feel toward a man you viscerally cannot stand.
One day, you will look back on the insurrection arguments you are making here and be embarrassed at how tenuous they are.
Also keep the context of the timeframe as well. It was 2020ish, we just got through the summer of demonstrations. Cities burning and no consequences, actually reported as peaceful. So, Trump wanting to demonstrate and walk to the Capital just doesn't seem to be illegal or even nefarious.whiterock said:Leading a crowd up to make a demonstration while making it appear to be spontaneous is not insurrection. It is good political theater that establishment Republicans think they're too good to engage in.Osodecentx said:Trump Sought to Conceal Plans for March to Capitol, Panel SaysRMF5630 said:Where I have a problem is that all of this is corroborating circumstantial tid-bits. That is insinuating that Trump may have been involved, was mad/didn't accept he lost and is an *******. I have not seen anything that ties him to the Congressional break-in or that the purpose was a Trump inspired plot to overthrow the US Government/election.Osodecentx said:You make a fair point.RMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:SorryRMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:Cipollone backed Cassidy Hutchinson's account of the Jan 6 eventsGuy Noir said:
Today, July 12, 2022 was another public hearing.
The focus was on the deposition of Whitehouse Council Pat Cipione, a Dec 16 tweet, and plans to overturn the election on Jan 6th.
Can you provide a link? I can't find his testimony. I have seen reports he didn't contradict, confirmed some points and took Executive Privilege. I am.lookinh for the questions on confirming what she said? Thanks
https://www.newsweek.com/cipollone-corroborated-key-elements-hutchinsons-1-6-testimony-mulvey-1723225
What was corroborated? It didn't say?
As I re-read the accounts, the stories quote a Democrat member of the Committee, Raskin. I can't find a transcript of Cipollone's entire testimony. So I'll say it is uncorroborated at this time.
Cipollone corroborated virtually everything from Hutchinson, Jan. 6 panel member says
WASHINGTON Trump White House counsel Pat Cipollone corroborated virtually all of the revelations from previous witnesses, including former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson, in lengthy testimony before the panel last week, a top Jan. 6 committee member told NBC News.
"Cipollone has corroborated almost everything that we've learned from the prior hearings," Rep. Jamie Raskin, D-Md., said in an exclusive interview just hours before the next hearing. "I certainly did not hear him contradict Cassidy Hutchinson. … He had the opportunity to say whatever he wanted to say, so I didn't see any contradiction there."
It was unclear if Cipollone was directly asked by investigators about the specifics of some of the more explosive aspects of Hutchinson's testimony including that they would be charged with "every crime imaginable" if Trump went to the Capitol on Jan. 6.
https://news.yahoo.com/cipollone-corroborated-virtually-everything-hutchinson-110035689.html
WASHINGTON President Donald J. Trump attempted to make the Jan. 6, 2021, march on the Capitol appear spontaneous even as he and his team intentionally assembled and galvanized a violence-prone mob to disrupt certification of his electoral defeat, the House committee investigating the attack showed on Tuesday.
"POTUS is going to have us march there/the Capitol," Kylie Jane Kremer, an organizer of the "Save America" rally on Jan. 6, wrote in a Jan. 4 textshown by the panel on Tuesday as it detailed Mr. Trump's efforts to gather his backers in Washington for a final, last-ditch effort to overturn his loss. Ms. Kremer added that Mr. Trump was "going to just call for it 'unexpectedly.'"
Mr. Trump weighed announcing the move, according to documents obtained from the National Archives, which provided the investigators with a draft tweet that said: "I will be making a Big Speech at 10AM on January 6th at the Ellipse (South of the White House). Please arrive early, massive crowds expected. March to the Capitol after. Stop the Steal!!"
The tweet was never sent. But it was the latest evidence presented by the committee of how Mr. Trump undertook a public and private effort to channel angry supporters, including right-wing extremists, toward the Capitol, where Vice President Mike Pence and lawmakers were gathered to confirm Joseph R. Biden Jr. as the president-elect.
For more than a year, Mr. Trump and his defenders have described the violence at the Capitol as a freewheeling peaceful protest gone awry. But the hearing on Tuesday laid out how the former president took a guiding role not only in bringing the mob fueled by his election lies to Washington that day, but also in the plan to direct it up to Capitol Hill, disregarding the advice of his closest aides.
"Donald Trump summoned a mob to Washington, D.C., and ultimately spurred that mob to wage a violent attack on our democracy," said Representative Bennie Thompson, Democrat of Mississippi and the chairman of the committee.
In its seventh hearing to lay out its findings, the committee situated Mr. Trump at the center of the quasi-legal efforts to derail the political process and also at the heart of the unprecedented chaos at the Capitol. Over nearly three hours, it introduced evidence from rally organizers, rioters and aides inside the White House who said the former president had inspired and directed what transpired that day.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/12/us/jan-6-panel-trump.html
Actually, if you look at all the evidence, it is clear that there was a strong desire to overturn the election results. I do not believe that it was a coincidence that the these demonstrations occurred at the same time that Congress was certifying the election results. When I originally viewed the people storming the Capitol Building I believed these people crossed a line of acceptable behavior. Since then I have learned of the planning that was occurring in the White house before this event occurred and it is pretty suspicious how it all came together, and how it all fell apart.whiterock said:almost everything you and Sam are posting undermines the case for insurrection.Osodecentx said:
Where I have a problem is that all of this is corroborating circumstantial tid-bits. That is insinuating that Trump may have been involved, was mad/didn't accept he lost and is an *******. I have not seen anything that ties him to the Congressional break-in or that the purpose was a Trump inspired plot to overthrow the US Government/election.A man who joined the pro-Trump mob that attacked the U.S. Capitol apologized Tuesday to officers who protected the building after telling lawmakers that he regrets being duped by the former president's lies of election fraud.Quote:Leading a crowd up to make a demonstration while making it appear to be spontaneous is not insurrection. It is good political theater that establishment Republicans think they're too good to engage in.Quote:
Trump Sought to Conceal Plans for March to Capitol, Panel Says
WASHINGTON President Donald J. Trump attempted to make the Jan. 6, 2021, march on the Capitol appear spontaneous even as he and his team intentionally assembled and galvanized a violence-prone mob to disrupt certification of his electoral defeat, the House committee investigating the attack showed on Tuesday.
"POTUS is going to have us march there/the Capitol," Kylie Jane Kremer, an organizer of the "Save America" rally on Jan. 6, wrote in a Jan. 4 textshown by the panel on Tuesday as it detailed Mr. Trump's efforts to gather his backers in Washington for a final, last-ditch effort to overturn his loss. Ms. Kremer added that Mr. Trump was "going to just call for it 'unexpectedly.'"
Mr. Trump weighed announcing the move, according to documents obtained from the National Archives, which provided the investigators with a draft tweet that said: "I will be making a Big Speech at 10AM on January 6th at the Ellipse (South of the White House). Please arrive early, massive crowds expected. March to the Capitol after. Stop the Steal!!"
The tweet was never sent. But it was the latest evidence presented by the committee of how Mr. Trump undertook a public and private effort to channel angry supporters, including right-wing extremists, toward the Capitol, where Vice President Mike Pence and lawmakers were gathered to confirm Joseph R. Biden Jr. as the president-elect.
For more than a year, Mr. Trump and his defenders have described the violence at the Capitol as a freewheeling peaceful protest gone awry. But the hearing on Tuesday laid out how the former president took a guiding role not only in bringing the mob fueled by his election lies to Washington that day, but also in the plan to direct it up to Capitol Hill, disregarding the advice of his closest aides.
"Donald Trump summoned a mob to Washington, D.C., and ultimately spurred that mob to wage a violent attack on our democracy," said Representative Bennie Thompson, Democrat of Mississippi and the chairman of the committee.
In its seventh hearing to lay out its findings, the committee situated Mr. Trump at the center of the quasi-legal efforts to derail the political process and also at the heart of the unprecedented chaos at the Capitol. Over nearly three hours, it introduced evidence from rally organizers, rioters and aides inside the White House who said the former president had inspired and directed what transpired that day.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/12/us/jan-6-panel-trump.html
During a hearing before the U.S. House committee that's investigating the insurrection, Stephen Ayres testified that he felt called by former President Donald Trump to come to Washington on Jan. 6, 2021.
He described being swept up by Trump's bogus claims, and believing as he marched to the Capitol that Trump would join them there and that there was still a chance the election could be overturned.
"I felt like I had like horse blinders on. I was locked in the whole time," said Ayres, who is scheduled to be sentenced in September after pleading guilty to a misdemeanor in the riot.
Ayres described being a loyal follower of Trump on social media before Jan. 6 and said he felt he needed to heed the president's call to come to Washington, D.C., for the "Stop the Steal" rally.
"I was very upset, as were most of his supporters," Ayres said when asked about Trump's unfounded election claims. Asked by Rep. Liz Cheney if he still believes the election was stolen, Ayres said, "Not so much now."
Ayres said he wasn't planning to storm the Capitol before Trump's speech "got everybody riled up." He had believed the president would be joining them at the Capitol.
"Basically, we were just following what he said," Ayres said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/jan-6-rioter-apologizes-to-officers-after-house-testimony/2022/07/12/d2bb796e-022f-11ed-8beb-2b4e481b1500_story.html
We have the Trump speech on transcript and video. He said not a single word or phrase the could reasonably be inferred as incitement, and made several comments urging peaceful action.
You have done a very, very good job of building a case that by not conceding the election and making allegations of fraud, he energized his base to base to assemble and protest. I agree entirely. But those are protected 1st Amendment rights. And you clearly make that case within a traditional Republican context of "we do not act like Democrats...we do not protest, and we damned sure do not riot." Ok, Fair enough. I get that. It's virtue posturing nonsense, but I see/hear that a lot on our side, a lot less than before, thankfully, but you're not in cray-cray land yet. Where you explode your analytical credibility is when you take the leap of logic that, because a small riot broke out amid an enormous and otherwise peaceful protest, Trump is an insurrectionist, that he did it all hoping to cause an insurrection, etc..... There is no evidence of that, at all, not a shred, other than the assessments of like minded people (can you spell confirmation bias?). Just a psychologically-driven need to perceive events in a way that justify the rage you feel toward a man you viscerally cannot stand.
One day, you will look back on the insurrection arguments you are making here and be embarrassed at how tenuous they are.
Are you talking about the 2020 election or the 2016 election?Guy Noir said:Actually, if you look at all the evidence, it is clear that there was a strong desire to overturn the election results. I do not believe that it was a coincidence that the these demonstrations occurred at the same time that Congress was certifying the election results. When I originally viewed the people storming the Capitol Building I believed these people crossed a line of acceptable behavior. Since then I have learned of the planning that was occurring in the White house before this event occurred and it is pretty suspicious how it all came together, and how it all fell apart.whiterock said:almost everything you and Sam are posting undermines the case for insurrection.Osodecentx said:
Where I have a problem is that all of this is corroborating circumstantial tid-bits. That is insinuating that Trump may have been involved, was mad/didn't accept he lost and is an *******. I have not seen anything that ties him to the Congressional break-in or that the purpose was a Trump inspired plot to overthrow the US Government/election.A man who joined the pro-Trump mob that attacked the U.S. Capitol apologized Tuesday to officers who protected the building after telling lawmakers that he regrets being duped by the former president's lies of election fraud.Quote:Leading a crowd up to make a demonstration while making it appear to be spontaneous is not insurrection. It is good political theater that establishment Republicans think they're too good to engage in.Quote:
Trump Sought to Conceal Plans for March to Capitol, Panel Says
WASHINGTON President Donald J. Trump attempted to make the Jan. 6, 2021, march on the Capitol appear spontaneous even as he and his team intentionally assembled and galvanized a violence-prone mob to disrupt certification of his electoral defeat, the House committee investigating the attack showed on Tuesday.
"POTUS is going to have us march there/the Capitol," Kylie Jane Kremer, an organizer of the "Save America" rally on Jan. 6, wrote in a Jan. 4 textshown by the panel on Tuesday as it detailed Mr. Trump's efforts to gather his backers in Washington for a final, last-ditch effort to overturn his loss. Ms. Kremer added that Mr. Trump was "going to just call for it 'unexpectedly.'"
Mr. Trump weighed announcing the move, according to documents obtained from the National Archives, which provided the investigators with a draft tweet that said: "I will be making a Big Speech at 10AM on January 6th at the Ellipse (South of the White House). Please arrive early, massive crowds expected. March to the Capitol after. Stop the Steal!!"
The tweet was never sent. But it was the latest evidence presented by the committee of how Mr. Trump undertook a public and private effort to channel angry supporters, including right-wing extremists, toward the Capitol, where Vice President Mike Pence and lawmakers were gathered to confirm Joseph R. Biden Jr. as the president-elect.
For more than a year, Mr. Trump and his defenders have described the violence at the Capitol as a freewheeling peaceful protest gone awry. But the hearing on Tuesday laid out how the former president took a guiding role not only in bringing the mob fueled by his election lies to Washington that day, but also in the plan to direct it up to Capitol Hill, disregarding the advice of his closest aides.
"Donald Trump summoned a mob to Washington, D.C., and ultimately spurred that mob to wage a violent attack on our democracy," said Representative Bennie Thompson, Democrat of Mississippi and the chairman of the committee.
In its seventh hearing to lay out its findings, the committee situated Mr. Trump at the center of the quasi-legal efforts to derail the political process and also at the heart of the unprecedented chaos at the Capitol. Over nearly three hours, it introduced evidence from rally organizers, rioters and aides inside the White House who said the former president had inspired and directed what transpired that day.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/12/us/jan-6-panel-trump.html
During a hearing before the U.S. House committee that's investigating the insurrection, Stephen Ayres testified that he felt called by former President Donald Trump to come to Washington on Jan. 6, 2021.
He described being swept up by Trump's bogus claims, and believing as he marched to the Capitol that Trump would join them there and that there was still a chance the election could be overturned.
"I felt like I had like horse blinders on. I was locked in the whole time," said Ayres, who is scheduled to be sentenced in September after pleading guilty to a misdemeanor in the riot.
Ayres described being a loyal follower of Trump on social media before Jan. 6 and said he felt he needed to heed the president's call to come to Washington, D.C., for the "Stop the Steal" rally.
"I was very upset, as were most of his supporters," Ayres said when asked about Trump's unfounded election claims. Asked by Rep. Liz Cheney if he still believes the election was stolen, Ayres said, "Not so much now."
Ayres said he wasn't planning to storm the Capitol before Trump's speech "got everybody riled up." He had believed the president would be joining them at the Capitol.
"Basically, we were just following what he said," Ayres said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/jan-6-rioter-apologizes-to-officers-after-house-testimony/2022/07/12/d2bb796e-022f-11ed-8beb-2b4e481b1500_story.html
We have the Trump speech on transcript and video. He said not a single word or phrase the could reasonably be inferred as incitement, and made several comments urging peaceful action.
You have done a very, very good job of building a case that by not conceding the election and making allegations of fraud, he energized his base to base to assemble and protest. I agree entirely. But those are protected 1st Amendment rights. And you clearly make that case within a traditional Republican context of "we do not act like Democrats...we do not protest, and we damned sure do not riot." Ok, Fair enough. I get that. It's virtue posturing nonsense, but I see/hear that a lot on our side, a lot less than before, thankfully, but you're not in cray-cray land yet. Where you explode your analytical credibility is when you take the leap of logic that, because a small riot broke out amid an enormous and otherwise peaceful protest, Trump is an insurrectionist, that he did it all hoping to cause an insurrection, etc..... There is no evidence of that, at all, not a shred, other than the assessments of like minded people (can you spell confirmation bias?). Just a psychologically-driven need to perceive events in a way that justify the rage you feel toward a man you viscerally cannot stand.
One day, you will look back on the insurrection arguments you are making here and be embarrassed at how tenuous they are.
Guy Noir said:Actually, if you look at all the evidence, it is clear that there was a strong desire to overturn the election results. I do not believe that it was a coincidence that the these demonstrations occurred at the same time that Congress was certifying the election results. When I originally viewed the people storming the Capitol Building I believed these people crossed a line of acceptable behavior. Since then I have learned of the planning that was occurring in the White house before this event occurred and it is pretty suspicious how it all came together, and how it all fell apart.whiterock said:almost everything you and Sam are posting undermines the case for insurrection.Osodecentx said:
Where I have a problem is that all of this is corroborating circumstantial tid-bits. That is insinuating that Trump may have been involved, was mad/didn't accept he lost and is an *******. I have not seen anything that ties him to the Congressional break-in or that the purpose was a Trump inspired plot to overthrow the US Government/election.A man who joined the pro-Trump mob that attacked the U.S. Capitol apologized Tuesday to officers who protected the building after telling lawmakers that he regrets being duped by the former president's lies of election fraud.Quote:Leading a crowd up to make a demonstration while making it appear to be spontaneous is not insurrection. It is good political theater that establishment Republicans think they're too good to engage in.Quote:
Trump Sought to Conceal Plans for March to Capitol, Panel Says
WASHINGTON President Donald J. Trump attempted to make the Jan. 6, 2021, march on the Capitol appear spontaneous even as he and his team intentionally assembled and galvanized a violence-prone mob to disrupt certification of his electoral defeat, the House committee investigating the attack showed on Tuesday.
"POTUS is going to have us march there/the Capitol," Kylie Jane Kremer, an organizer of the "Save America" rally on Jan. 6, wrote in a Jan. 4 textshown by the panel on Tuesday as it detailed Mr. Trump's efforts to gather his backers in Washington for a final, last-ditch effort to overturn his loss. Ms. Kremer added that Mr. Trump was "going to just call for it 'unexpectedly.'"
Mr. Trump weighed announcing the move, according to documents obtained from the National Archives, which provided the investigators with a draft tweet that said: "I will be making a Big Speech at 10AM on January 6th at the Ellipse (South of the White House). Please arrive early, massive crowds expected. March to the Capitol after. Stop the Steal!!"
The tweet was never sent. But it was the latest evidence presented by the committee of how Mr. Trump undertook a public and private effort to channel angry supporters, including right-wing extremists, toward the Capitol, where Vice President Mike Pence and lawmakers were gathered to confirm Joseph R. Biden Jr. as the president-elect.
For more than a year, Mr. Trump and his defenders have described the violence at the Capitol as a freewheeling peaceful protest gone awry. But the hearing on Tuesday laid out how the former president took a guiding role not only in bringing the mob fueled by his election lies to Washington that day, but also in the plan to direct it up to Capitol Hill, disregarding the advice of his closest aides.
"Donald Trump summoned a mob to Washington, D.C., and ultimately spurred that mob to wage a violent attack on our democracy," said Representative Bennie Thompson, Democrat of Mississippi and the chairman of the committee.
In its seventh hearing to lay out its findings, the committee situated Mr. Trump at the center of the quasi-legal efforts to derail the political process and also at the heart of the unprecedented chaos at the Capitol. Over nearly three hours, it introduced evidence from rally organizers, rioters and aides inside the White House who said the former president had inspired and directed what transpired that day.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/12/us/jan-6-panel-trump.html
During a hearing before the U.S. House committee that's investigating the insurrection, Stephen Ayres testified that he felt called by former President Donald Trump to come to Washington on Jan. 6, 2021.
He described being swept up by Trump's bogus claims, and believing as he marched to the Capitol that Trump would join them there and that there was still a chance the election could be overturned.
"I felt like I had like horse blinders on. I was locked in the whole time," said Ayres, who is scheduled to be sentenced in September after pleading guilty to a misdemeanor in the riot.
Ayres described being a loyal follower of Trump on social media before Jan. 6 and said he felt he needed to heed the president's call to come to Washington, D.C., for the "Stop the Steal" rally.
"I was very upset, as were most of his supporters," Ayres said when asked about Trump's unfounded election claims. Asked by Rep. Liz Cheney if he still believes the election was stolen, Ayres said, "Not so much now."
Ayres said he wasn't planning to storm the Capitol before Trump's speech "got everybody riled up." He had believed the president would be joining them at the Capitol.
"Basically, we were just following what he said," Ayres said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/jan-6-rioter-apologizes-to-officers-after-house-testimony/2022/07/12/d2bb796e-022f-11ed-8beb-2b4e481b1500_story.html
We have the Trump speech on transcript and video. He said not a single word or phrase the could reasonably be inferred as incitement, and made several comments urging peaceful action.
You have done a very, very good job of building a case that by not conceding the election and making allegations of fraud, he energized his base to base to assemble and protest. I agree entirely. But those are protected 1st Amendment rights. And you clearly make that case within a traditional Republican context of "we do not act like Democrats...we do not protest, and we damned sure do not riot." Ok, Fair enough. I get that. It's virtue posturing nonsense, but I see/hear that a lot on our side, a lot less than before, thankfully, but you're not in cray-cray land yet. Where you explode your analytical credibility is when you take the leap of logic that, because a small riot broke out amid an enormous and otherwise peaceful protest, Trump is an insurrectionist, that he did it all hoping to cause an insurrection, etc..... There is no evidence of that, at all, not a shred, other than the assessments of like minded people (can you spell confirmation bias?). Just a psychologically-driven need to perceive events in a way that justify the rage you feel toward a man you viscerally cannot stand.
One day, you will look back on the insurrection arguments you are making here and be embarrassed at how tenuous they are.
I agree it is unacceptable and they should be prosecuted if they went in or were violent.
I just don't see "desire", "believe", "suspicious" all being proof. Charge them and prosecute. I do still believe in innocent until proven guilty by a jury of your peers. Unless you are Trump. Alot of supposition, not much proof. But so.many know he is guilty.
Actually there is a lot of proof. It is not just testimony by a single White House aide. There is testimony by the previous Attorney General (Bill Barr), the Acting, at the time, Attorney General, the Deputy Attorney General, the White House Counsel, and numerous others that corroborates each others story. There is also a tweet from Trump himself on Dec 18, 2020 asking other to come protest on Jan 6th. Stating it will be wild.
Have you listened to these testimonies?
Have you listened to these testimonies?
Guy Noir said:
Actually there is a lot of evidence. It is not just testimony by a single White house aide. There is testimony by the previous Attorney General (Bill Barr), the Acting at the time Attorney General, the Deputy Attorney General, the White House Counsel, and numerous others that corroborates each others story. There is also a tweet from Trump himself on Dec 18, 2020 asking other to come protest on Jan 6th. Stating it will be wild.
Have you listened to these testimonies?
Yes I have. Evidence to what? He was pissed? Yeah , he lost and thought he was cheated. Guilty. He wanted to demonstrate and piss off Comgress? Yeah, guilty. He is an asshlle that can be childish? Yeah.
He is guilty of planning a coup of the US Government? No.
The best I could deciper, is that he evoked executive priviledge on many of the questions where it was possible he could have disputed Hutchinson's account. So this is accounted as corroboration. Since it wasn't contradiction. I could be wrong here, as the article wasn't very clear and a bit contrived.RMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:SorryRMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:Cipollone backed Cassidy Hutchinson's account of the Jan 6 eventsGuy Noir said:
Today, July 12, 2022 was another public hearing.
The focus was on the deposition of Whitehouse Council Pat Cipione, a Dec 16 tweet, and plans to overturn the election on Jan 6th.
Can you provide a link? I can't find his testimony. I have seen reports he didn't contradict, confirmed some points and took Executive Privilege. I am.lookinh for the questions on confirming what she said? Thanks
https://www.newsweek.com/cipollone-corroborated-key-elements-hutchinsons-1-6-testimony-mulvey-1723225
What was corroborated? It didn't say?
The reality is we had a weasly politico who didn't want to answer any questions, so he evoked executive priviledge on the most important stuff. I could tell by the commentary below the article most people didn't actually read the article. Or read it with far left progressive lenses. Since they were crowing that it's all over now. Again and again. This part of the questioning basically gave us nothing. They need to move on to actual eye witnesses of the encounter that happened. Not hersay evidence.
We need testimony from the SS guys and the driver of the car to ever know what the truth was. Since they were actually there.
There is no "proof", unless by that word you mean proof that this committee is the most shameless and unethical pack of hypocrites to roam Congress since the days when Democrats were fighting the Civil Rights Act while still trying to win minority votes by demonizing and lying about the Right.Guy Noir said:
Actually there is a lot of proof. It is not just testimony by a single White House aide. There is testimony by the previous Attorney General (Bill Barr), the Acting at the time Attorney General, the Deputy Attorney General, the White House Counsel, and numerous others that corroborates each others story. There is also a tweet from Trump himself on Dec 18, 2020 asking other to come protest on Jan 6th. Stating it will be wild.
Have you listened to these testimonies?
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Certainly a yes for the 2016 election....He Hate Me said:Are you talking about the 2020 election or the 2016 election?Guy Noir said:Actually, if you look at all the evidence, it is clear that there was a strong desire to overturn the election results. I do not believe that it was a coincidence that the these demonstrations occurred at the same time that Congress was certifying the election results. When I originally viewed the people storming the Capitol Building I believed these people crossed a line of acceptable behavior. Since then I have learned of the planning that was occurring in the White house before this event occurred and it is pretty suspicious how it all came together, and how it all fell apart.whiterock said:almost everything you and Sam are posting undermines the case for insurrection.Osodecentx said:
Where I have a problem is that all of this is corroborating circumstantial tid-bits. That is insinuating that Trump may have been involved, was mad/didn't accept he lost and is an *******. I have not seen anything that ties him to the Congressional break-in or that the purpose was a Trump inspired plot to overthrow the US Government/election.A man who joined the pro-Trump mob that attacked the U.S. Capitol apologized Tuesday to officers who protected the building after telling lawmakers that he regrets being duped by the former president's lies of election fraud.Quote:Leading a crowd up to make a demonstration while making it appear to be spontaneous is not insurrection. It is good political theater that establishment Republicans think they're too good to engage in.Quote:
Trump Sought to Conceal Plans for March to Capitol, Panel Says
WASHINGTON President Donald J. Trump attempted to make the Jan. 6, 2021, march on the Capitol appear spontaneous even as he and his team intentionally assembled and galvanized a violence-prone mob to disrupt certification of his electoral defeat, the House committee investigating the attack showed on Tuesday.
"POTUS is going to have us march there/the Capitol," Kylie Jane Kremer, an organizer of the "Save America" rally on Jan. 6, wrote in a Jan. 4 textshown by the panel on Tuesday as it detailed Mr. Trump's efforts to gather his backers in Washington for a final, last-ditch effort to overturn his loss. Ms. Kremer added that Mr. Trump was "going to just call for it 'unexpectedly.'"
Mr. Trump weighed announcing the move, according to documents obtained from the National Archives, which provided the investigators with a draft tweet that said: "I will be making a Big Speech at 10AM on January 6th at the Ellipse (South of the White House). Please arrive early, massive crowds expected. March to the Capitol after. Stop the Steal!!"
The tweet was never sent. But it was the latest evidence presented by the committee of how Mr. Trump undertook a public and private effort to channel angry supporters, including right-wing extremists, toward the Capitol, where Vice President Mike Pence and lawmakers were gathered to confirm Joseph R. Biden Jr. as the president-elect.
For more than a year, Mr. Trump and his defenders have described the violence at the Capitol as a freewheeling peaceful protest gone awry. But the hearing on Tuesday laid out how the former president took a guiding role not only in bringing the mob fueled by his election lies to Washington that day, but also in the plan to direct it up to Capitol Hill, disregarding the advice of his closest aides.
"Donald Trump summoned a mob to Washington, D.C., and ultimately spurred that mob to wage a violent attack on our democracy," said Representative Bennie Thompson, Democrat of Mississippi and the chairman of the committee.
In its seventh hearing to lay out its findings, the committee situated Mr. Trump at the center of the quasi-legal efforts to derail the political process and also at the heart of the unprecedented chaos at the Capitol. Over nearly three hours, it introduced evidence from rally organizers, rioters and aides inside the White House who said the former president had inspired and directed what transpired that day.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/12/us/jan-6-panel-trump.html
During a hearing before the U.S. House committee that's investigating the insurrection, Stephen Ayres testified that he felt called by former President Donald Trump to come to Washington on Jan. 6, 2021.
He described being swept up by Trump's bogus claims, and believing as he marched to the Capitol that Trump would join them there and that there was still a chance the election could be overturned.
"I felt like I had like horse blinders on. I was locked in the whole time," said Ayres, who is scheduled to be sentenced in September after pleading guilty to a misdemeanor in the riot.
Ayres described being a loyal follower of Trump on social media before Jan. 6 and said he felt he needed to heed the president's call to come to Washington, D.C., for the "Stop the Steal" rally.
"I was very upset, as were most of his supporters," Ayres said when asked about Trump's unfounded election claims. Asked by Rep. Liz Cheney if he still believes the election was stolen, Ayres said, "Not so much now."
Ayres said he wasn't planning to storm the Capitol before Trump's speech "got everybody riled up." He had believed the president would be joining them at the Capitol.
"Basically, we were just following what he said," Ayres said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/jan-6-rioter-apologizes-to-officers-after-house-testimony/2022/07/12/d2bb796e-022f-11ed-8beb-2b4e481b1500_story.html
We have the Trump speech on transcript and video. He said not a single word or phrase the could reasonably be inferred as incitement, and made several comments urging peaceful action.
You have done a very, very good job of building a case that by not conceding the election and making allegations of fraud, he energized his base to base to assemble and protest. I agree entirely. But those are protected 1st Amendment rights. And you clearly make that case within a traditional Republican context of "we do not act like Democrats...we do not protest, and we damned sure do not riot." Ok, Fair enough. I get that. It's virtue posturing nonsense, but I see/hear that a lot on our side, a lot less than before, thankfully, but you're not in cray-cray land yet. Where you explode your analytical credibility is when you take the leap of logic that, because a small riot broke out amid an enormous and otherwise peaceful protest, Trump is an insurrectionist, that he did it all hoping to cause an insurrection, etc..... There is no evidence of that, at all, not a shred, other than the assessments of like minded people (can you spell confirmation bias?). Just a psychologically-driven need to perceive events in a way that justify the rage you feel toward a man you viscerally cannot stand.
One day, you will look back on the insurrection arguments you are making here and be embarrassed at how tenuous they are.
By KYLE CHENEY
11/22/2016 05:09 AM EST
Quote:
At least a half-dozen Democratic electors have signed onto an attempt to block Donald Trump from winning an Electoral College majority, an effort designed not only to deny Trump the presidency but also to undermine the legitimacy of the institution.
The presidential electors, mostly former Bernie Sanders supporters who hail from Washington state and Colorado, are now lobbying their Republican counterparts in other states to reject their oaths and in some cases, state law to vote against Trump when the Electoral College meets on Dec. 19.
Even the most optimistic among the Democratic electors acknowledges they're unlikely to persuade the necessary 37 Republican electors to reject Trump the number they'd likely need to deny him the presidency and send the final decision to the House of Representatives. And even if they do, the Republican-run House might simply elect Trump anyway.
The first bolded statement in simply ridiculous. The second one overlooks the fact that almost all the evidence is coming from Trump's allies or former allies.whiterock said:almost everything you and Sam are posting undermines the case for insurrection.Osodecentx said:
Where I have a problem is that all of this is corroborating circumstantial tid-bits. That is insinuating that Trump may have been involved, was mad/didn't accept he lost and is an *******. I have not seen anything that ties him to the Congressional break-in or that the purpose was a Trump inspired plot to overthrow the US Government/election.A man who joined the pro-Trump mob that attacked the U.S. Capitol apologized Tuesday to officers who protected the building after telling lawmakers that he regrets being duped by the former president's lies of election fraud.Quote:Leading a crowd up to make a demonstration while making it appear to be spontaneous is not insurrection. It is good political theater that establishment Republicans think they're too good to engage in.Quote:
Trump Sought to Conceal Plans for March to Capitol, Panel Says
WASHINGTON President Donald J. Trump attempted to make the Jan. 6, 2021, march on the Capitol appear spontaneous even as he and his team intentionally assembled and galvanized a violence-prone mob to disrupt certification of his electoral defeat, the House committee investigating the attack showed on Tuesday.
"POTUS is going to have us march there/the Capitol," Kylie Jane Kremer, an organizer of the "Save America" rally on Jan. 6, wrote in a Jan. 4 textshown by the panel on Tuesday as it detailed Mr. Trump's efforts to gather his backers in Washington for a final, last-ditch effort to overturn his loss. Ms. Kremer added that Mr. Trump was "going to just call for it 'unexpectedly.'"
Mr. Trump weighed announcing the move, according to documents obtained from the National Archives, which provided the investigators with a draft tweet that said: "I will be making a Big Speech at 10AM on January 6th at the Ellipse (South of the White House). Please arrive early, massive crowds expected. March to the Capitol after. Stop the Steal!!"
The tweet was never sent. But it was the latest evidence presented by the committee of how Mr. Trump undertook a public and private effort to channel angry supporters, including right-wing extremists, toward the Capitol, where Vice President Mike Pence and lawmakers were gathered to confirm Joseph R. Biden Jr. as the president-elect.
For more than a year, Mr. Trump and his defenders have described the violence at the Capitol as a freewheeling peaceful protest gone awry. But the hearing on Tuesday laid out how the former president took a guiding role not only in bringing the mob fueled by his election lies to Washington that day, but also in the plan to direct it up to Capitol Hill, disregarding the advice of his closest aides.
"Donald Trump summoned a mob to Washington, D.C., and ultimately spurred that mob to wage a violent attack on our democracy," said Representative Bennie Thompson, Democrat of Mississippi and the chairman of the committee.
In its seventh hearing to lay out its findings, the committee situated Mr. Trump at the center of the quasi-legal efforts to derail the political process and also at the heart of the unprecedented chaos at the Capitol. Over nearly three hours, it introduced evidence from rally organizers, rioters and aides inside the White House who said the former president had inspired and directed what transpired that day.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/12/us/jan-6-panel-trump.html
During a hearing before the U.S. House committee that's investigating the insurrection, Stephen Ayres testified that he felt called by former President Donald Trump to come to Washington on Jan. 6, 2021.
He described being swept up by Trump's bogus claims, and believing as he marched to the Capitol that Trump would join them there and that there was still a chance the election could be overturned.
"I felt like I had like horse blinders on. I was locked in the whole time," said Ayres, who is scheduled to be sentenced in September after pleading guilty to a misdemeanor in the riot.
Ayres described being a loyal follower of Trump on social media before Jan. 6 and said he felt he needed to heed the president's call to come to Washington, D.C., for the "Stop the Steal" rally.
"I was very upset, as were most of his supporters," Ayres said when asked about Trump's unfounded election claims. Asked by Rep. Liz Cheney if he still believes the election was stolen, Ayres said, "Not so much now."
Ayres said he wasn't planning to storm the Capitol before Trump's speech "got everybody riled up." He had believed the president would be joining them at the Capitol.
"Basically, we were just following what he said," Ayres said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/jan-6-rioter-apologizes-to-officers-after-house-testimony/2022/07/12/d2bb796e-022f-11ed-8beb-2b4e481b1500_story.html
We have the Trump speech on transcript and video. He said not a single word or phrase the could reasonably be inferred as incitement, and made several comments urging peaceful action.
You have done a very, very good job of building a case that by not conceding the election and making allegations of fraud, he energized his base to base to assemble and protest. I agree entirely. But those are protected 1st Amendment rights. And you clearly make that case within a traditional Republican context of "we do not act like Democrats...we do not protest, and we damned sure do not riot." Ok, Fair enough. I get that. It's virtue posturing nonsense, but I see/hear that a lot on our side, a lot less than before, thankfully, but you're not in cray-cray land yet. Where you explode your analytical credibility is when you take the leap of logic that, because a small riot broke out amid an enormous and otherwise peaceful protest, Trump is an insurrectionist, that he did it all hoping to cause an insurrection, etc..... There is no evidence of that, at all, not a shred, other than the assessments of like minded people (can you spell confirmation bias?). Just a psychologically-driven need to perceive events in a way that justify the rage you feel toward a man you viscerally cannot stand.
One day, you will look back on the insurrection arguments you are making here and be embarrassed at how tenuous they are.
Weasly because the former White House Counsel did not divulge what he and the President talked about? You expected him to tell the world the legal advice he gave the President, his client? Are you nuts? He runs the risk of disbarment and criminal prosecution. He can't tell the that information, no President would ever be safe, including Democrats, from fully discussing. It is his job to tell him if something is illegal, which based on what actually happened Trump listened.Forest Bueller_bf said:The best I could deciper, is that he evoked executive priviledge on many of the questions where it was possible he could have disputed Hutchinson's account. So this is accounted as corroboration. Since it wasn't contradiction. I could be wrong here, as the article wasn't very clear and a bit contrived.RMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:SorryRMF5630 said:Osodecentx said:Cipollone backed Cassidy Hutchinson's account of the Jan 6 eventsGuy Noir said:
Today, July 12, 2022 was another public hearing.
The focus was on the deposition of Whitehouse Council Pat Cipione, a Dec 16 tweet, and plans to overturn the election on Jan 6th.
Can you provide a link? I can't find his testimony. I have seen reports he didn't contradict, confirmed some points and took Executive Privilege. I am.lookinh for the questions on confirming what she said? Thanks
https://www.newsweek.com/cipollone-corroborated-key-elements-hutchinsons-1-6-testimony-mulvey-1723225
What was corroborated? It didn't say?
The reality is we had a weasly politico who didn't want to answer any questions, so he evoked executive priviledge on the most important stuff. I could tell by the commentary below the article most people didn't actually read the article. Or read it with far left progressive lenses. Since they were crowing that it's all over now. Again and again. This part of the questioning basically gave us nothing. They need to move on to actual eye witnesses of the encounter that happened. Not hersay evidence.
We need testimony from the SS guys and the driver of the car to ever know what the truth was. Since they were actually there.
Especially since the actual facts show that Pence certified, Trump did not pardon ANY of the Jan 6th criminals, Trump left the White House on time and without fanfare, an Biden was inaugurated exactly when he was supposed to be. Everything actually happened on time, whether Pence smiled or Trump was cheerful is irrelevant.
What world do you guys live. You think every idea in the White House is legal and that past or even present WH Counsels have not had to say "not a good idea"? There is no proof Trump had anything to do with planning the Congressional break in. Just that he is a sore-loser and childish.
Here is one discussion between a President and his advisor in more sane times.
In one segment of about 500 hours of discussions released by the National Archives, Nixon is heard discussing an extension of bombing raids over North Vietnam with Henry Kissinger, the national security adviser. Then, rather abruptly, he says: "I'd rather use the nuclear bomb." Whether Nixon was serious or trying to provoke Mr Kissinger is not clear. In his baritone voice, his adviser replies: "That, I think, would just be too much." But Nixon then goes on: "The nuclear bomb. Does that bother you? I just want you to think big."
The fact that unorthodox or even illegal ideas are discussed is not unlawful. And the Executive Branch should retain privilege to have these discussions.
In one segment of about 500 hours of discussions released by the National Archives, Nixon is heard discussing an extension of bombing raids over North Vietnam with Henry Kissinger, the national security adviser. Then, rather abruptly, he says: "I'd rather use the nuclear bomb." Whether Nixon was serious or trying to provoke Mr Kissinger is not clear. In his baritone voice, his adviser replies: "That, I think, would just be too much." But Nixon then goes on: "The nuclear bomb. Does that bother you? I just want you to think big."
The fact that unorthodox or even illegal ideas are discussed is not unlawful. And the Executive Branch should retain privilege to have these discussions.