The really concerning part is that as of right now, "everything" remains on the table...Oldbear83 said:What happens in the next two weeks will impact US foreign policy for the next 5 years at least.Bexar Pitts said:"Shelter in place" is not welcome news..Evacuation planning is obviously fluid and will be determined on a minute to minute basis..God help our people if it quickly turns 'hot." Trusting the Taliban is not an ideal way to formulate evacuation scenarios.4th and Inches said:they are screwed too.. been ordered to shelter in place last I heard. No place to go, hopefully the 6000 troops we sending over there can get everyone out..BylrFan said:ATL Bear said:Just got another update from his wife. He's still not out and the airport situation is getting tenuous not to mention street security. He's a "dude" in all senses of the word (FBI Counter terrorism), but they're talking alternative exfil scenarios now.Bexar Pitts said:I wish a safe exit for your friend...understand through some unverified news reports that the Airport area is getting hairy now. To be expected..I don't think it's possible to have a "safe zone" anywhere in Kabul at this moment.ATL Bear said:
The question isn't about the right/wrong of the exit, but the poor planning of the actual departure. I have a friend at the Kabul airport right now. It's getting very real.
Can he not contact nearest US embassy/consulate
/official ?
Afghanistan What a tragedy!
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Last: 3 days ago by RD2WINAGNBEAR86
Your ability at mental gymnastics is astounding. Biden is president. Biden pulled 'em out. This on Biden 100%HuMcK said:
Trump deligitimized the Afghan government by not even inviting them to talks with the Taliban in Qatar. He also reduced our troop presence down to 2500 while simultaneously releasing 5000 Taliban prisoners. He ignored Taliban offensives that were violations of his "conditions". He even criticized Biden for postponing the withdrawal from May to September, saying it should have been done sooner. He literally set the stage for what is happening now, and you are lying to yourself if you think this was ever going to play out any other way under any President.
You're an idiot. A bias leftist that's so eat up with TDS. Humck, take the lumps and move one. This is all in the "big guy" in the White House.HuMcK said:
Or maybe just the things he set in motion...
Do you dispute that the deal to leave was struck by Trump? If Trump gets some credit for leaving (he should, Biden too), he also gets credited for how the deal he approved unfolds. Again, it wasn't Biden that excluded the Afghan gov from talks, and it wasn't under Biden that we released 5000 seasoned Taliban prisoners, those were actions taken by Trump.
Wow, you're a clown.
It's striking that, with 20 years to think it over, the United States withdrew its forces without a plan for the aftermath.
— Richard Fontaine (@RHFontaine) August 15, 2021
No plan for regional base access, for the contractors that maintain the Afghan military, for evacuating interpreters and helpers. Time wasn’t the issue.
Very sad. ATL Bear I am praying your friend makes it out. Please keep us posted.
It will take a miracle to get all the US personnel out plus the 5,000 marines and airborne rushing in to provide cover.
It will take a miracle to get all the US personnel out plus the 5,000 marines and airborne rushing in to provide cover.
potential hostages all over the place.... https://t.co/Pk4AlZv6Od
— NEWS MAKER (@NEWS_MAKER) August 15, 2021
Kabul is effectively under Taliban control. Government fled., building occupied. U.S. is using the airport to evacuate the embassy & remaining American citizens. There is no use pretending it is anything but Taliban controlled. Status of Parwan is unclear. Panjshir is an island. pic.twitter.com/5n3rjL5YKJ
— Bill Roggio (@billroggio) August 15, 2021
A big Sikorsky can hold a lot of people..Need good Satcom/ Intelligence for our troops to set up secure rendezvous points to move our guys/gals out...So far as I've seen or heard, our helicopters haven't taken fire yet..If they do, Kabul has even more serious problems..Jacques Strap said:
Very sad. ATL Bear I am praying your friend makes it out. Please keep us posted.
It will take a miracle to get all the US personnel out plus the 5,000 marines and airborne rushing in to provide cover.potential hostages all over the place.... https://t.co/Pk4AlZv6Od
— NEWS MAKER (@NEWS_MAKER) August 15, 2021
On #SundayTODAY: @RichardEngel is in Kabul, Afghanistan, with the latest on the Taliban’s advance as U.S. troops race to get embassy workers out. pic.twitter.com/2YSPqtUERD
— TODAY (@TODAYshow) August 15, 2021
I saw a report of helicopters near the embassy dropping flares. I'll see if I can find it.Bexar Pitts said:A big Sikorsky can hold a lot of people..Need good Satcom/ Intelligence for our troops to set up secure rendezvous points to move our guys/gals out...So far as I've seen or heard, our helicopters haven't taken fire yet..If they do, Kabul has even more serious problems..Jacques Strap said:
Very sad. ATL Bear I am praying your friend makes it out. Please keep us posted.
It will take a miracle to get all the US personnel out plus the 5,000 marines and airborne rushing in to provide cover.potential hostages all over the place.... https://t.co/Pk4AlZv6Od
— NEWS MAKER (@NEWS_MAKER) August 15, 2021
Found it: NPR: Taliban Fighters Enter Kabul As Helicopters Land At U.S. Embassy
I think I saw video but cannot track that down.
Few paragraphs down. I think we all hope the report below is not accurate and is just a reporter not knowing what they are seeing or the source is exaggerating
Quote:
Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters, which typically carry armed troops, later landed near the embassy as well. At least one attack helicopter could be seen overhead as helicopters launched flares to distract possible missile fire. The U.S. decided a few days ago to send in thousands of troops to help evacuate some personnel from its embassy.
Security Alert U. S. Embassy Kabul, Afghanistan
Location: Kabul
Event: The security situation in Kabul is changing quickly including at the airport. There are reports of the airport taking fire; therefore we are instructing U.S. citizens to shelter in place.
U.S. citizens wanting assistance in departing the country should register for any option that might be identified to return to the United States, and must complete this Repatriation Assistance Request for each traveler in their group. Spouses and minor children of U.S. citizens in Afghanistan who are awaiting immigrant visas should also complete this form if they wish to depart. Please do so as soon as possible. You must complete this form even if you've previously submitted your information to the U.S. Embassy in Kabul. Do not call the U.S. Embassy in Kabul for details or updates about the flight. This form is the only way to communicate interest in flight options.
By U.S. Embassy in Kabul | 15 August, 2021 | Topics: Alert
Location: Kabul
Event: The security situation in Kabul is changing quickly including at the airport. There are reports of the airport taking fire; therefore we are instructing U.S. citizens to shelter in place.
U.S. citizens wanting assistance in departing the country should register for any option that might be identified to return to the United States, and must complete this Repatriation Assistance Request for each traveler in their group. Spouses and minor children of U.S. citizens in Afghanistan who are awaiting immigrant visas should also complete this form if they wish to depart. Please do so as soon as possible. You must complete this form even if you've previously submitted your information to the U.S. Embassy in Kabul. Do not call the U.S. Embassy in Kabul for details or updates about the flight. This form is the only way to communicate interest in flight options.
By U.S. Embassy in Kabul | 15 August, 2021 | Topics: Alert
Rumor mill although it is believable at this point given US has limited options. Too many people to airlift and not enough time and the airport safety sounds sketchy.
Credible report that the US is offering vast sums of cash to the Taliban in order to allow evacuations to proceed. Hope US media is on top of this story
— Bruno Maçães (@MacaesBruno) August 15, 2021
Biden's middle eastJacques Strap said:
Rumor mill although it is believable at this point given US has limited options. Too many people to airlift and not enough time and the airport safety sounds sketchy.Credible report that the US is offering vast sums of cash to the Taliban in order to allow evacuations to proceed. Hope US media is on top of this story
— Bruno Maçães (@MacaesBruno) August 15, 2021
And where's Joe? Chillin at Camp David during his administration's biggest foreign policy moment. This situation could decide the future of the Biden White House.
Great title for a new book.."Contract with a Terrorist"..I'll bet the 5K or so prisoners ( many of whom I understand are Al- Queda) the Taliban set free from the Parwan facility at Bagram would love to get their hands on some of that cash...This is getting nastier by the minute. I hear that several nations have their people hung up at the airport...I hope and pray those people get evacuated..and soon. BTW, the big Sikorsky 53's can carry over 50 people...probably more if need be.Jacques Strap said:
Rumor mill although it is believable at this point given US has limited options. Too many people to airlift and not enough time and the airport safety sounds sketchy.Credible report that the US is offering vast sums of cash to the Taliban in order to allow evacuations to proceed. Hope US media is on top of this story
— Bruno Maçães (@MacaesBruno) August 15, 2021
Both Trump and Biden were adamant about withdrawing all US troops from Afghanistan, and both were right. That country doesn't belong to the US and the US can't run it forever.
— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) August 15, 2021
But the idea that problems with withdrawal plans belongs to anyone but Biden is preposterous.
Pay them in cash 2.2T
Under Biden:HuMcK said:
Almost half of the current caseload comes from 2 large states with GOP governors who take pride in fighting Biden on every issue, including COVID, just because, so I mostly blame Abbott and DeSantis for their actions. Biden takes the issue seriously and is trying to get as many people vaccinated as possible so we can finally be done with this stupid virus. In contrast, Trump got blamed for COVID because his dumb ass was on camera suggesting to inject disinfectants and shine UV lights in people's bodies, among other embarrassing episodes like e.g. the time he got sick enough to be hospitalized because of his own carelessness.
people, including kids, are dying from covid
the border is a catastrophe and neither he nor Harris has visited or even addressed it
Afghanistan is a fiasco
he lied about $2,000 immediately when he took office
I'd rather have a jerk in office than a failure....but here we are
Nothing scares the Taliban more than warnings from octogenarians
The President is to be commended for the clarity of purpose of his statement on Afghanistan and his action. The Taliban must know the world is watching its actions. We are concerned about reports regarding the Taliban’s brutal treatment of all Afghans, especially women and girls.
— Nancy Pelosi (@SpeakerPelosi) August 15, 2021
Father, forgive him, for he knows not what he is doing. He has dementia.fadskier said:Under Biden:HuMcK said:
Almost half of the current caseload comes from 2 large states with GOP governors who take pride in fighting Biden on every issue, including COVID, just because, so I mostly blame Abbott and DeSantis for their actions. Biden takes the issue seriously and is trying to get as many people vaccinated as possible so we can finally be done with this stupid virus. In contrast, Trump got blamed for COVID because his dumb ass was on camera suggesting to inject disinfectants and shine UV lights in people's bodies, among other embarrassing episodes like e.g. the time he got sick enough to be hospitalized because of his own carelessness.
people, including kids, are dying from covid
the border is a catastrophe and neither he nor Harris has visited or even addressed it
Afghanistan is a fiasco
he lied about $2,000 immediately when he took office
I'd rather have a jerk in office than a failure....but here we are
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"
-- Barack Obama
-- Barack Obama
Quote:
I'd rather have a jerk in office than a failure...
because you believe in the possibility of a win- lose result, but no such thing exists.
We either produce a system that delivers win-win results, or we get a system that delivers lose-lose results, there is no win-lose scenario.
CNN: “There are many who are asking, 'where’s the president?'"
— RNC Research (@RNCResearch) August 15, 2021
“There are no indications that President Biden is going to address the nation.” pic.twitter.com/vUSNiIKDyE
President Biden is expected to address the nation in the next few days about the crisis in Afghanistan, an administration official sayshttps://t.co/iVS0tJWXtj pic.twitter.com/jt4xooilxZ
— CNN Breaking News (@cnnbrk) August 15, 2021
Troops rushing in now up from 5,000 to 6,000.
Ironically, we are re-invading Afghanistan near the anniversary of 9-11.
Ironically, we are re-invading Afghanistan near the anniversary of 9-11.
Just in: Pentagon now authorizes 6,000 US troops to deploy to Afghanistan as the Taliban take over the Presidential Palace in Kabul, US officials say — and increase of 1,000 troops from the 82nd Airborne.
— Hugo Lowell (@hugolowell) August 15, 2021
Another Saigon moment: chaotic scenes at Kabul International Airport. No security. None. pic.twitter.com/6BuXqBTHWk
— Saad Mohseni (@saadmohseni) August 15, 2021
ATL Bear said:
The question isn't about the right/wrong of the exit, but the poor planning of the actual departure. I have a friend at the Kabul airport right now. It's getting very real.
How do you depart in a way that ends differently? If the Afghan army is incapable of or uninterested in combatting the Taliban, how do you ever pull the troops in a way that doesn't end in disaster?
It's a picture of General Milley with the quote:
"I need to learn more about White Rage.
It's OK, though, I've got Afghanistan covered."
Here is how I DO NOT leave my house when I go on vacation:
Hey Facebook friends, the entire family will be leaving for a much anticipated vacation on August 20th. Well be gone for a full month. I can't wait. We couldn't find a house sitter being so far out in the sticks and for such a long period. Hopefully, all will be well when we leave. We got a great deal through AA and Sandals so share the info with your friends so they can take advantage too.
We've had plenty of time to plan to help our friends who helped us. We obviously learned nothing from the fall of Saigon.
Hey Facebook friends, the entire family will be leaving for a much anticipated vacation on August 20th. Well be gone for a full month. I can't wait. We couldn't find a house sitter being so far out in the sticks and for such a long period. Hopefully, all will be well when we leave. We got a great deal through AA and Sandals so share the info with your friends so they can take advantage too.
We've had plenty of time to plan to help our friends who helped us. We obviously learned nothing from the fall of Saigon.
We are all banging our heads in shame. Ghani Baba @ashrafghani fled with his crooks. He screwed and f***ed everything up. We apologize to everyone for serving the fugitive. May Allah punish the traitor! His legacy will be a stain on our history. @MEAIndia @suhailshaheen1 @ARG_AFG pic.twitter.com/9TJh0enuTV
— Afghan Embassy India (@AfghanistanInIN) August 15, 2021
you start from the inside, taking care of your friends and move out to strategic, enforced locations. And you have plenty of air support available. You don't do it by reducing your perimeter into tighter and tighter, indefensible, difficult to access locations.bear2be2 said:ATL Bear said:
The question isn't about the right/wrong of the exit, but the poor planning of the actual departure. I have a friend at the Kabul airport right now. It's getting very real.
How do you depart in a way that ends differently? If the Afghan army is incapable of or uninterested in combatting the Taliban, how do you pull ever pull the troops in a way that doesn't end in disaster?
If this wasn't so tragic, it would be laughable.
The latest update from the Biden administration, on #Afghanistan: pic.twitter.com/VA0OR4Ncb8
— David Gura (@davidgura) August 15, 2021
What is the Covid status of all these people? Have they been vaccinated? Tested? Would hate to break the rules.HuMcK said:The latest update from the Biden administration, on #Afghanistan: pic.twitter.com/VA0OR4Ncb8
— David Gura (@davidgura) August 15, 2021
Perhaps we should bring all of our diplomats home through the southern border where Covid rules don't seem to apply.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"
-- Barack Obama
-- Barack Obama
One explanation which makes some sense.
TL; DR
The Afgan military was modeled after the US military which relies heavily on air support for battle and logistical supply, med evac, etc. Once the US pulled out the air support was gone and it was game over.
NBC Without U.S. contractors, the Afghan military will lose its main advantage over the Taliban air power
The loss of U.S. contractors could trigger a game-changing shift in the military balance between the Taliban and the Afghan government.
June 6, 2021, 5:00 AM CDT
By Dan De Luce
Afghanistan's military was molded to match American operations and collapsed without U.S. air support and intelligence
KABULThe Afghan government outpost in Imam Sahib, a district of northern Kunduz province, held out for two months after being surrounded by the Taliban. At first, elite commando units would come once a week on a resupply run. Then, these runs became more scarce, as did the supplies.
"In the last days, there was no food, no water and no weapons," said trooper Taj Mohammad, 38. Fleeing in one armored personnel carrier and one Ford Ranger, the remaining men finally made a run to the relative safety of the provincial capital, which collapsed weeks later. They left behind another 11 APCs to the Taliban.
As district after district fell in this summer's Taliban offensive, without much visible support from the Afghan national army and police forces, other soldiers simply made the calculation that it wasn't worth fighting anymoreespecially if the Taliban offered them safe passage home, as they usually did.
"Everyone just surrendered their guns and ran away," said Rahimullah, a 25-year soldier who joined the army a year ago and served in the Shahr-e-Bozorg district of northeastern Badakhshan province. "We didn't receive any help from the central government, and so the district fell without any fighting."
Afghanistan's national army and police forces, theoretically numbering 350,000 men and trained and equipped at huge cost by the U.S. and Western allies, were supposed to be a powerful deterrent to the Taliban. That is one reason why President Biden, when he announced in April his decision to withdraw all American forces from Afghanistan, expressed confidence in the Afghan military's ability to hold ground.
TL; DR
The Afgan military was modeled after the US military which relies heavily on air support for battle and logistical supply, med evac, etc. Once the US pulled out the air support was gone and it was game over.
NBC Without U.S. contractors, the Afghan military will lose its main advantage over the Taliban air power
The loss of U.S. contractors could trigger a game-changing shift in the military balance between the Taliban and the Afghan government.
June 6, 2021, 5:00 AM CDT
By Dan De Luce
WSJ: How the Taliban Overran the Afghan Army, Built by the U.S. Over 20 YearsQuote:
WASHINGTON Afghan government forces could lose the single most important military advantage they have over the Taliban air power when private contractors and U.S. troops leave the country in coming weeks.
The Afghan security forces rely heavily on U.S.-funded contractors to repair and maintain their fleet of aircraft and armored vehicles and a whole array of other equipment. But the roughly 18,000 contractors are due to depart within weeks, along with most of the U.S. military contingent, as part of Washington's agreement with the Taliban to withdraw all "foreign" troops.
Afghanistan's military was molded to match American operations and collapsed without U.S. air support and intelligence
KABULThe Afghan government outpost in Imam Sahib, a district of northern Kunduz province, held out for two months after being surrounded by the Taliban. At first, elite commando units would come once a week on a resupply run. Then, these runs became more scarce, as did the supplies.
"In the last days, there was no food, no water and no weapons," said trooper Taj Mohammad, 38. Fleeing in one armored personnel carrier and one Ford Ranger, the remaining men finally made a run to the relative safety of the provincial capital, which collapsed weeks later. They left behind another 11 APCs to the Taliban.
As district after district fell in this summer's Taliban offensive, without much visible support from the Afghan national army and police forces, other soldiers simply made the calculation that it wasn't worth fighting anymoreespecially if the Taliban offered them safe passage home, as they usually did.
"Everyone just surrendered their guns and ran away," said Rahimullah, a 25-year soldier who joined the army a year ago and served in the Shahr-e-Bozorg district of northeastern Badakhshan province. "We didn't receive any help from the central government, and so the district fell without any fighting."
Afghanistan's national army and police forces, theoretically numbering 350,000 men and trained and equipped at huge cost by the U.S. and Western allies, were supposed to be a powerful deterrent to the Taliban. That is one reason why President Biden, when he announced in April his decision to withdraw all American forces from Afghanistan, expressed confidence in the Afghan military's ability to hold ground.
Joe Biden - "'There's going to be no circumstance where you're going to see people being lifted off the roof of a embassy of the U.S. from Afghanistan'
US helicopters seen this morning at US embassy Kabul. It seems the evacuation is underway. Photo by @AP pic.twitter.com/YxMQQeRF29
— Liz Sly (@LizSly) August 15, 2021