Afghanistan What a tragedy!

96,575 Views | 1370 Replies | Last: 2 days ago by RD2WINAGNBEAR86
Oldbear83
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GoldMind said:

Oldbear83 said:

ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

Funny, the KLA are terrorists also, why don't we unrecognize them Dan?


What?
Goldmind trying to out-macho the SEAL. He gets like that sometimes, don't worry about it.


He's my rep.
Doesn't make you a SEAL
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
GoldMind
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ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

Funny, the KLA are terrorists also, why don't we unrecognize them Dan?


What?
We recognize more than one terrorist group as legit governments around the world.

Winning by cheating is just as impressive as winning fairly, probably even more so. Your opponent was better than you in every way, and you beat them with your brain.
Jacques Strap
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I thought we were told the Taliban was letting US citizens through the checkpoints, so why aren't the US citizens already inside the airport? Are some of them still outside stuck in the sea of humanity because Joe would not green light the troops to go get them?

Security Alert U.S. Embassy Kabul, Afghanistan (August 28, 2021)

Event: Due to a specific, credible threat, all U.S. citizens in the vicinity of Kabul airport (HKIA), including the South (Airport Circle) gate, the new Ministry of the Interior, and the gate near the Panjshir Petrol station on the northwest side of the airport, should leave the airport area immediately.
ATL Bear
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GoldMind said:

ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

Funny, the KLA are terrorists also, why don't we unrecognize them Dan?


What?
We recognize more than one terrorist group as legit governments around the world.


Terrorist organization according to who?
jupiter
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if we had just taken everyone who wanted to flee/ had the airlift capacity to get them out I bet we probably could have gotten all the Americans too. I guess that's too many refugees for some to stomach though.

We couldn't just throw out our bureaucratic red tape, even under these circumstances
Waco1947
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Harrison Bergeron said:

Waco1947 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Waco1947 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Waco1947 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Waco1947 said:

A million moving components and chaos ensues not as a result of Biden but the failure of the Afghan army, the threat and realization of Taliban violence, and the ISIS K bombings..
110,00 people evacuated. And critics here think it was manageable. If so how would you manage it? First on the list how to stop a suicide bomber?
If I ever wonder how people can have blind loyalty to a leader regardless to the cost in human life, freedom, or economics, you always remind me.
"Blind loyalty" is a straw man.
Here's an example of anagram stupidity not the President but military commanders."
"Lt Col Stuart Scheller called attention to remarks from the secretary of defense suggesting the Afghan forces could withstand the Taliban and questioned the advice senior military leaders have been giving the president.

"I'm not saying we've got to be in Afghanistan forever, but I am saying: Did any of you throw your rank on the table and say, 'Hey, it's a bad idea to evacuate Bagram Airfield, a strategic airbase, before we evacuate everyone.' Did anyone do that? And, when you didn't think to do that, did anyone raise their hand and say, 'We completely messed this up?'"

He said there have been questions about whether or not US military personnel who died in the war did so in vain.

Scheller said that "potentially all those people did die in vain if we don't have senior leaders that own up and raise their hand and say 'we did not do this well in the end,'" adding that 'without that we just keep repeating the same mistakes."

The Marine Corps has seen the video but did not say whether or not there will be repercussions for posting it.."
Note the President may have been given bad advice.
If I ever wonder how people can have blind loyalty to a leader regardless to the cost in human life, freedom, or economics, you always remind me.
Once again straw man.
You keep using that word, but it you do not know what it means clearly.
Yes, I do. The straw man is "blind loyalty."
That's not my premise but your projection on me.
My premise is that closing down an unpopular war with a collapsing Afghan army, warring factions like ISIS K and the Taliban, and a desperate people was always going to a be a monumental task. That's simply reality not some "blind loyalty."
120,000 people out is monumental.
Reality is our Armed Forces, State Department, and others are acting heroically. To say Biden is making the best of a horrible, chaotic situation is not "blind loyalty."
Blind loyalty says "He's great and he's done great."
That's not my premise.
Then you're just a stupid ****ing moron with your head so up your tribal
ass.
Yes, I do. Thank you.
Osodecentx
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jupiter said:

if we had just taken everyone who wanted to flee/ had the airlift capacity to get them out I bet we probably could have gotten all the Americans too. I guess that's too many refugees for some to stomach though.

We couldn't just throw out our bureaucratic red tape, even under these circumstances
Agreed
Wangchung
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GoldMind
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Winning by cheating is just as impressive as winning fairly, probably even more so. Your opponent was better than you in every way, and you beat them with your brain.
jupiter
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Quote:

The former president said "the Afghans now at the greatest risk are the same ones who have been on the forefront of progress inside their nation."

Mr. Bush said the U.S. government "has the legal authority to cut the red tape for refugees" in order to help during "urgent humanitarian crises." He said the U.S. has "the responsibility and the resources to secure safe passage for them now, without bureaucratic delay."



https://www.cbsnews.com/news/afghanistan-refugees-help-george-w-bush/
Oldbear83
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ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

Funny, the KLA are terrorists also, why don't we unrecognize them Dan?


What?
We recognize more than one terrorist group as legit governments around the world.


Terrorist organization according to who?
The fake SEAL, of course.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
GoldMind
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Oldbear83 said:

ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

Funny, the KLA are terrorists also, why don't we unrecognize them Dan?


What?
We recognize more than one terrorist group as legit governments around the world.


Terrorist organization according to who?
The fake SEAL, of course.


UN Resolutions 1160 and 1244.

Robert Gelbard, as well as our State Department added them as a terrorist organization in March of 1998 and never officially removed them.

My point is that Crenshaw is right not to recognize the Taliban as a legitimate government, he could have taken an even bigger step and disrecognized all terrorist governments, including the former leaders of terrorist organizations past and present as legitimate politicians in their respective "country".
Winning by cheating is just as impressive as winning fairly, probably even more so. Your opponent was better than you in every way, and you beat them with your brain.
Forest Bueller
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Waco1947 said:

A million moving components and chaos ensues not as a result of Biden but the failure of the Afghan army, the threat and realization of Taliban violence, and the ISIS K bombings..

This is literally the dumbest post on here ever.

The Afghans had no chance because of the air defense they would require to mount a defensive.

Giving away Bagram Air Base and all the supplies that are there, was the worst singular tactical decision that could have possible been made.
Forest Bueller
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Waco1947 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Waco1947 said:

Harrison Bergeron said:

Waco1947 said:

A million moving components and chaos ensues not as a result of Biden but the failure of the Afghan army, the threat and realization of Taliban violence, and the ISIS K bombings..
110,00 people evacuated. And critics here think it was manageable. If so how would you manage it? First on the list how to stop a suicide bomber?
If I ever wonder how people can have blind loyalty to a leader regardless to the cost in human life, freedom, or economics, you always remind me.
"Blind loyalty" is a straw man.
Here's an example of anagram stupidity not the President but military commanders."
"Lt Col Stuart Scheller called attention to remarks from the secretary of defense suggesting the Afghan forces could withstand the Taliban and questioned the advice senior military leaders have been giving the president.

"I'm not saying we've got to be in Afghanistan forever, but I am saying: Did any of you throw your rank on the table and say, 'Hey, it's a bad idea to evacuate Bagram Airfield, a strategic airbase, before we evacuate everyone.' Did anyone do that? And, when you didn't think to do that, did anyone raise their hand and say, 'We completely messed this up?'"

He said there have been questions about whether or not US military personnel who died in the war did so in vain.

Scheller said that "potentially all those people did die in vain if we don't have senior leaders that own up and raise their hand and say 'we did not do this well in the end,'" adding that 'without that we just keep repeating the same mistakes."

The Marine Corps has seen the video but did not say whether or not there will be repercussions for posting it.."
Note the President may have been given bad advice.
If I ever wonder how people can have blind loyalty to a leader regardless to the cost in human life, freedom, or economics, you always remind me.
Once again the straw man - blind loyalty.
Oh my goodness the lack of introspection here, blind loyalty is you.
Jacques Strap
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Osodecentx
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Oldbear83 said:

ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

Funny, the KLA are terrorists also, why don't we unrecognize them Dan?


What?
We recognize more than one terrorist group as legit governments around the world.


Terrorist organization according to who?
The fake SEAL, of course.
"Fake seal"?
Who?
Jack Bauer
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Oldbear83
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GoldMind said:

Oldbear83 said:

ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

Funny, the KLA are terrorists also, why don't we unrecognize them Dan?


What?
We recognize more than one terrorist group as legit governments around the world.


Terrorist organization according to who?
The fake SEAL, of course.


UN Resolutions 1160 and 1244.

Robert Gelbard, as well as our State Department added them as a terrorist organization in March of 1998 and never officially removed them.

My point is that Crenshaw is right not to recognize the Taliban as a legitimate government, he could have taken an even bigger step and disrecognized all terrorist governments, including the former leaders of terrorist organizations past and present as legitimate politicians in their respective "country".

The US is not obligated to do as the UN says.

Especially given the UN"s record for most of my life.

You are not superior, in knowledge or argument, to the SEAL who got elected to Congress. Your act is already stale.

Go back to sports. GM.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83
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Osodecentx said:

Oldbear83 said:

ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

Funny, the KLA are terrorists also, why don't we unrecognize them Dan?


What?
We recognize more than one terrorist group as legit governments around the world.


Terrorist organization according to who?
The fake SEAL, of course.
"Fake seal"?
Who?
Goldmind, who seems to believe his opinion is more credible than Crenshaw's experience.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Jacques Strap
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WAPO: Taliban Offered Biden Control of Kabul, but He Declined

WAPO: Surprise, panic and fateful choices: The day America lost its longest war


Quote:

In a hastily arranged in-person meeting, senior U.S. military leaders in Doha including McKenzie, the commander of U.S. Central Command spoke with Abdul Ghani Baradar, head of the Taliban's political wing.

"We have a problem," Baradar said, according to the U.S. official. "We have two options to deal with it: You [the United States military] take responsibility for securing Kabul or you have to allow us to do it."

Throughout the day, Biden had remained resolute in his decision to withdraw all American troops from Afghanistan. The collapse of the Afghan government hadn't changed his mind.

McKenzie, aware of those orders, told Baradar that the U.S. mission was only to evacuate American citizens, Afghan allies and others at risk. The United States, he told Baradar, needed the airport to do that.

On the spot, an understanding was reached, according to two other U.S. officials: The United States could have the airport until Aug. 31. But the Taliban would control the city.

Jacques Strap
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Jacques Strap
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BeerThief
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Oldbear83 said:

GoldMind said:

Oldbear83 said:

ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

Funny, the KLA are terrorists also, why don't we unrecognize them Dan?


What?
We recognize more than one terrorist group as legit governments around the world.


Terrorist organization according to who?
The fake SEAL, of course.


UN Resolutions 1160 and 1244.

Robert Gelbard, as well as our State Department added them as a terrorist organization in March of 1998 and never officially removed them.

My point is that Crenshaw is right not to recognize the Taliban as a legitimate government, he could have taken an even bigger step and disrecognized all terrorist governments, including the former leaders of terrorist organizations past and present as legitimate politicians in their respective "country".

The US is not obligated to do as the UN says.

Especially given the UN"s record for most of my life.

You are not superior, in knowledge or argument, to the SEAL who got elected to Congress. Your act is already stale.

Go back to sports. GM.


State department, which Congressman Crenshaw is a part of, never axed them from the list of recognized terror groups.

Unfortunately, he's correct on that.
ATL Bear
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BeerThief said:

Oldbear83 said:

GoldMind said:

Oldbear83 said:

ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

Funny, the KLA are terrorists also, why don't we unrecognize them Dan?


What?
We recognize more than one terrorist group as legit governments around the world.


Terrorist organization according to who?
The fake SEAL, of course.


UN Resolutions 1160 and 1244.

Robert Gelbard, as well as our State Department added them as a terrorist organization in March of 1998 and never officially removed them.

My point is that Crenshaw is right not to recognize the Taliban as a legitimate government, he could have taken an even bigger step and disrecognized all terrorist governments, including the former leaders of terrorist organizations past and present as legitimate politicians in their respective "country".

The US is not obligated to do as the UN says.

Especially given the UN"s record for most of my life.

You are not superior, in knowledge or argument, to the SEAL who got elected to Congress. Your act is already stale.

Go back to sports. GM.


State department, which Congressman Crenshaw is a part of, never axed them from the list of recognized terror groups.

Unfortunately, he's correct on that.
Crenshaw isn't part of the State Department, and the State Department doesn't have the KLA as a foreign terrorist organization, active or delisted.

https://www.state.gov/foreign-terrorist-organizations/
BeerThief
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ATL Bear said:

BeerThief said:

Oldbear83 said:

GoldMind said:

Oldbear83 said:

ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

Funny, the KLA are terrorists also, why don't we unrecognize them Dan?


What?
We recognize more than one terrorist group as legit governments around the world.


Terrorist organization according to who?
The fake SEAL, of course.


UN Resolutions 1160 and 1244.

Robert Gelbard, as well as our State Department added them as a terrorist organization in March of 1998 and never officially removed them.

My point is that Crenshaw is right not to recognize the Taliban as a legitimate government, he could have taken an even bigger step and disrecognized all terrorist governments, including the former leaders of terrorist organizations past and present as legitimate politicians in their respective "country".

The US is not obligated to do as the UN says.

Especially given the UN"s record for most of my life.

You are not superior, in knowledge or argument, to the SEAL who got elected to Congress. Your act is already stale.

Go back to sports. GM.


State department, which Congressman Crenshaw is a part of, never axed them from the list of recognized terror groups.

Unfortunately, he's correct on that.
Crenshaw isn't part of the State Department, and the State Department doesn't have the KLA as a foreign terrorist organization, active or delisted.

https://www.state.gov/foreign-terrorist-organizations/


They disbanded and became Kosovo Protection Corps, so naturally, they wouldn't be listed. Many of their former leaders are active in politics.
Jacques Strap
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Waco1947
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Forest Bueller said:

Waco1947 said:

A million moving components and chaos ensues not as a result of Biden but the failure of the Afghan army, the threat and realization of Taliban violence, and the ISIS K bombings..

This is literally the dumbest post on here ever.

The Afghans had no chance because of the air defense they would require to mount a defensive.

Giving away Bagram Air Base and all the supplies that are there, was the worst singular tactical decision that could have possible been made.
My apologies for posting the "literally dumbest post ever." My stupidity is stunning. Thank you for pointing it out.
ATL Bear
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BeerThief said:

ATL Bear said:

BeerThief said:

Oldbear83 said:

GoldMind said:

Oldbear83 said:

ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

ATL Bear said:

GoldMind said:

Funny, the KLA are terrorists also, why don't we unrecognize them Dan?


What?
We recognize more than one terrorist group as legit governments around the world.


Terrorist organization according to who?
The fake SEAL, of course.


UN Resolutions 1160 and 1244.

Robert Gelbard, as well as our State Department added them as a terrorist organization in March of 1998 and never officially removed them.

My point is that Crenshaw is right not to recognize the Taliban as a legitimate government, he could have taken an even bigger step and disrecognized all terrorist governments, including the former leaders of terrorist organizations past and present as legitimate politicians in their respective "country".

The US is not obligated to do as the UN says.

Especially given the UN"s record for most of my life.

You are not superior, in knowledge or argument, to the SEAL who got elected to Congress. Your act is already stale.

Go back to sports. GM.


State department, which Congressman Crenshaw is a part of, never axed them from the list of recognized terror groups.

Unfortunately, he's correct on that.
Crenshaw isn't part of the State Department, and the State Department doesn't have the KLA as a foreign terrorist organization, active or delisted.

https://www.state.gov/foreign-terrorist-organizations/


They disbanded and became Kosovo Protection Corps, so naturally, they wouldn't be listed. Many of their former leaders are active in politics.
If they were a terrorist organization they would be listed. State and Intel do keep up with reorgs, splinters, and new entrants from former entities.
Jacques Strap
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Harrison Bergeron
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The only thing crazier than TaliBiden's performance in Afghanistan is people so tribal they're defending it.
Jacques Strap
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Senator Seeks Investigation Into Americans Reportedly Denied Entry to Kabul Airport

400 U.S. citizens and others reportedly turned away

The ranking member on the Senate's Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations has instructed the Biden administration to hand over internal information about its decision to reportedly prevent a busload of Americans from entering Afghanistan's airport to be evacuated from the war-torn country.

Sen. Ron Johnson (R., Wis.) is using his oversight authority to investigate allegations that U.S. military leaders prevented U.S. citizens and others from entering the Kabul airport as part of emergency evacuation efforts coordinated by nonprofit groups.

Johnson says he has been "receiving reports that contradict the Biden administration's narrative and are troubling to say the least," according to an information request obtained by the Washington Free Beacon that was sent on Friday to the Biden Pentagon and State Department. This includes reports that "a group of over 400 individuals including U.S. citizens were turned away at the airport" on Thursday and told by a U.S. military commander that the "rescue is over."

Johnson is one of several congressional foreign policy leaders demanding the Biden administration turn over information related to its ongoing emergency evacuation of Americans from Afghanistan. Americans waiting to be rescued contradict the Biden administration's claims the mission is running smoothly. The administration maintains that it can rescue every American stranded in the country by an Aug. 31 deadline set by the ruling Taliban and agreed to by the United States. It is unclear, however, how many U.S. citizens are scrambling to leave.

Johnson is investigating reports by military veteran Chad Robichaux that rescue efforts coordinated with outside nonprofit groups are being met with resistance by American military officials on the ground. Robichaux said he organized a busload of 400 evacuees on Thursday and got them to the airport, only to be met by a commander of the 82nd Airborne Division who "told them to get back on their buses and turn around because 'the rescue was over,'" Johnson wrote. "It is not clear what happened to the Americans and the other individuals after they left the airport."

Robichaux, in an interview late last week with Newsmax, said his "team members were met by the commander of the 82nd Airborne Brigade and asked 'what were they doing here? Who did we think we are bringing these people into the base?'"

The senator wants the Pentagon and State Department to explain in detail what Biden administration policies led to this confrontation.

"It's hard to believe that any U.S. military official would deny Americans the ability to evacuate Afghanistan," Johnson wrote. "What generalized or specific order was given to the commander that caused him to take this alleged action? Where did this order originate?"

He also wants to know the names of any military leaders who issued these orders and for the administration to explain if it is aware of the event in question. Johnson says a full investigation into the matter is needed.

Rep. Darrell Issa (R., Calif.), whose office has been working to evacuate several families stuck in the country, said on Sunday that airport entry points are being shut down by the Taliban.

"We are guiding American citizens to known Kabul airport entry points, but they are being repeatedly turned back by the Taliban," Issa said. "The situation has deteriorated to where entry points our people passed through only days ago are now impeded by the Taliban. If this administration allows our people to be blocked when they are this close to freedom, that is on the president's shoulders and no one else's."

A State Department spokesman, speaking only on background, said on Sunday that nearly 5,500 Americans have been flown out of Afghanistan so far, including around 50 in the last day.

The State Department claims that only 250 or so Americans informed them they are still trying to leave the country. U.S. officials on the ground continue "to coordinate assistance around the clock for this group, while taking the current security situation into account," the spokesman said.

Another 280 individuals, the State Department claims, "remain undecided about whether to leave the country or have told us they do not intend to depart."

Porteroso
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I simply don't believe we turned away busses of female Americans, who were then taken by the Taliban. Someone tweeting it doesn't make it so.
Jacques Strap
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Rasmussen Reports

51% now believe more than 100 American civilians will be left behind in Afghanistan after the U.S. military withdrawal is completed,
36% who think more than 500 will be left behind.
19% think the military withdrawal will leave fewer than 50 American civilians stranded in Afghanistan
8% who think no one will be left behind. Nineteen percent (19%) are not sure.
Waco1947
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Jacques Strap said:

Rasmussen Reports

51% now believe more than 100 American civilians will be left behind in Afghanistan after the U.S. military withdrawal is completed,
36% who think more than 500 will be left behind.
19% think the military withdrawal will leave fewer than 50 American civilians stranded in Afghanistan
8% who think no one will be left behind. Nineteen percent (19%) are not sure.
Polling is not evidence and immaterial
Forest Bueller_bf
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One thing is for sure, there are plenty of people stuck there that WE will never know what has happened to them.

 
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