Sam Lowry said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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4th and Inches said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.

Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.

It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.

What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.

The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."

Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.

Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.

---

link to the poll and its cross tabs please and thanks!

Its never encouraging to cite an ABC poll..

---

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/10-americans-trump-charged-jan-riot-poll/story?id=85482369

91% of Democrats, 21% of Republicans, and what should be most worrying for you, 62% of independents.

Also, 60% of Americans believe the committee has been fair.

You can diss the messenger all you want, but it shows the committee is being effective with people who aren't in the cult.

Serious questions:

How can you dismiss the testimony of people who were not only conservative Republicans but who both voted for Trump and campaigned for him?

How can you excuse Trump's vilification of poll workers, who were guilty of nothing but doing their jobs?

---

it's interesting that your poll quotes 60% of Americans believe in what they're hearing from the J6 committee yet nobody's watching it according to TV ratings. We're supposed to believe Adam the great in what he said on TV yesterday but he's been wrong about just everything related to Trump the Russia stuff, the phone calls stuff.(nice retraction from the press on misquoting Trump on the GA phone calls)

---

That is actually a terrible number. The majority of people tuning in for this dog and pony show are disproportionally Left-Liberal.

90% should be believing what they hear.

I honestly can't believe it's that low.

---

It's 60% of Americans, not 60% of viewers. That's up from about 50% before the hearings.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.

Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.

It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.

What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.

The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."

Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.

Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.

---

link to the poll and its cross tabs please and thanks!

Its never encouraging to cite an ABC poll..

---

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/10-americans-trump-charged-jan-riot-poll/story?id=85482369

91% of Democrats, 21% of Republicans, and what should be most worrying for you, 62% of independents.

Also, 60% of Americans believe the committee has been fair.

You can diss the messenger all you want, but it shows the committee is being effective with people who aren't in the cult.

Serious questions:

How can you dismiss the testimony of people who were not only conservative Republicans but who both voted for Trump and campaigned for him?

How can you excuse Trump's vilification of poll workers, who were guilty of nothing but doing their jobs?

---

it's interesting that your poll quotes 60% of Americans believe in what they're hearing from the J6 committee yet nobody's watching it according to TV ratings. We're supposed to believe Adam the great in what he said on TV yesterday but he's been wrong about just everything related to Trump the Russia stuff, the phone calls stuff.(nice retraction from the press on misquoting Trump on the GA phone calls)

---

That is actually a terrible number. The majority of people tuning in for this dog and pony show are disproportionally Left-Liberal.

90% should be believing what they hear.

I honestly can't believe it's that low.

---

It's 60% of Americans, not 60% of viewers. That's up from about 50% before the hearings.

---

Wait for it … pic.twitter.com/meBXOWSiSH

— KEEM 🍿 (@KEEMSTAR) June 22, 2022

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.

Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.

It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.

What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.

The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."

Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.

Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.

---

link to the poll and its cross tabs please and thanks!

Its never encouraging to cite an ABC poll..

---

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/10-americans-trump-charged-jan-riot-poll/story?id=85482369

91% of Democrats, 21% of Republicans, and what should be most worrying for you, 62% of independents.

Also, 60% of Americans believe the committee has been fair.

You can diss the messenger all you want, but it shows the committee is being effective with people who aren't in the cult.

Serious questions:

How can you dismiss the testimony of people who were not only conservative Republicans but who both voted for Trump and campaigned for him?

How can you excuse Trump's vilification of poll workers, who were guilty of nothing but doing their jobs?

---

it's interesting that your poll quotes 60% of Americans believe in what they're hearing from the J6 committee yet nobody's watching it according to TV ratings. We're supposed to believe Adam the great in what he said on TV yesterday but he's been wrong about just everything related to Trump the Russia stuff, the phone calls stuff.(nice retraction from the press on misquoting Trump on the GA phone calls)

Those same indies are polling as voting with Trump if the 2024 election waa held today..

Stop being a useful idiot..

Prosecute Trump, I dont care..I do care that our current govt keeps lying to the American people. The people deserve better than focusing on the past.

---

The GA phone call stories were substantially accurate. Trump's spinmeisters are leaning heavily, and very dishonestly, on a couple of immaterial misquotes that were soon enough corrected.

---

Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Guy Noir said:

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I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.

Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications

Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.

It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.

---

While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.

In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.

---

What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less

---

So you think a more moderate candidate would fire up the base to turn out the vote and sway moderates? What is the last moderate that got elected? And on what issues do you feel moderation is necessary?

The Romney's, McCain's and Kasich's of the world may sway some independents and milquetoast "conservatives" such as yourself, but it generally keeps the base from turning out the vote. This has been true of every election for decades. Moderates who deviate from the base on issues generally don't get elected. This has been true for decades.

I think there are areas that conservatives can find common ground with most Americans, especially when it comes to the economy and crime. And it's been true for generations that economic issues are most likely to turn out the vote.

---

What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Aren't moderate Republicans part of the base or is it only voters who refuse to vote for the Republican if it is a moderate?

Look at Rawhide's post about three of four posts below, 9:04 AM today. He says he didn't vote for McCain or Romney and wouldn't have voted for Kasich. You seem to blame "miliquetoast conservatives for the election of Biden. What about "miliquetoast conservatives" like Raw who, by your reasoning, gave us Obama twice and Clinton twice?

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I don't agree with Rawhide's approach. I'm a pragmatist and so I don't agree with his approach or your approach. If it was between Kasich and Biden, I'd absolutely vote Kasich.

But the statistics have shown that if the Republican candidate fails to excite the base, they don't turn out to vote. And generally moderate candidates simply don't excite the base. And when the base doesn't turn out to vote republicans lose. History has proven this.

---

I think some here would say that Trump excited the Republican base in 2020. He lost moderates and independents and lost by millions of votes, but he excited the base.

Why do you think only conservative Republicans are the base? Why aren't moderates the Republican base?

If Trump wins the fringe and loses moderates and independents, he loses.

What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Is it conservative or moderate?

---

In political terms, the base is the block of voters who are very unlikely to vote for the candidate of an opposing party, regardless of the specific views each candidate holds. In short they're not turncoats who will cast a vote for Biden if they don't like the Republican party's candidate, such as a number of Never Trumpers. In most elections it's important for the candidate to excite the base. If they sit it out - like they did during the McCain and Romney elections, then the republicans have little chance of winning.

Now that does not mean the Republican candidate doesn't need to attract at least some independents and moderates. Indeed he or she does, as Trump did in 2016. But exciting the base is typically more important because they're the ones who turn out the vote. If they decide to sit it out, the republican candidate is in trouble.

When they start appealing to wishy washy Luke warms such as yourself who really aren't all that conservative or concerned with conservative polices, republicans lose. That's a proven losing strategy time and time again.

---

You're right, I don't put party first. You're a good "base" voter; "my party right or wrong".

Trump is no conservative. A party that continues to protect and promote him is not worthy of support. His actions after the election and especially Jan 6 are a disqualification. Trump is bad for the country and bad for the Republican Party.

I agree with your definition of "base voter". I put the base vote at about 20% of the general election voters for Republicans but that is just a guess.

---

I would submit it's more accurate to say you don't put conservative values first. It's fine with you if a liberal does lasting damage to the country as long as you can send a message to Republicans. I believe that's a short-sighted and inflexible attitude that is bad for our country.

Unlike you, I am a pragmatist. I don't have to agree with everything that the candidate thinks or believes to see whose policies are better for my family and the country. That approach has served me well. It's about to get Roe v. Wade overturned.

I realized back in 2020 that Biden would be a disaster, and I have been proven right with each passing day. He has done lasting harm to our country. Your approach to voting has likewise proven a disaster.

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.

Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.

It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.

What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.

The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."

Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.

Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.

---

link to the poll and its cross tabs please and thanks!

Its never encouraging to cite an ABC poll..

---

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/10-americans-trump-charged-jan-riot-poll/story?id=85482369

91% of Democrats, 21% of Republicans, and what should be most worrying for you, 62% of independents.

Also, 60% of Americans believe the committee has been fair.

You can diss the messenger all you want, but it shows the committee is being effective with people who aren't in the cult.

Serious questions:

How can you dismiss the testimony of people who were not only conservative Republicans but who both voted for Trump and campaigned for him?

How can you excuse Trump's vilification of poll workers, who were guilty of nothing but doing their jobs?

---

it's interesting that your poll quotes 60% of Americans believe in what they're hearing from the J6 committee yet nobody's watching it according to TV ratings. We're supposed to believe Adam the great in what he said on TV yesterday but he's been wrong about just everything related to Trump the Russia stuff, the phone calls stuff.(nice retraction from the press on misquoting Trump on the GA phone calls)

Those same indies are polling as voting with Trump if the 2024 election waa held today..

Stop being a useful idiot..

Prosecute Trump, I dont care..I do care that our current govt keeps lying to the American people. The people deserve better than focusing on the past.

---

The GA phone call stories were substantially accurate. Trump's spinmeisters are leaning heavily, and very dishonestly, on a couple of immaterial misquotes that were soon enough corrected.

---

immaterial misquotes? Are you serious Clark?!

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.

Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.

It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.

What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.

The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."

Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.

Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.

---

link to the poll and its cross tabs please and thanks!

Its never encouraging to cite an ABC poll..

---

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/10-americans-trump-charged-jan-riot-poll/story?id=85482369

91% of Democrats, 21% of Republicans, and what should be most worrying for you, 62% of independents.

Also, 60% of Americans believe the committee has been fair.

You can diss the messenger all you want, but it shows the committee is being effective with people who aren't in the cult.

Serious questions:

How can you dismiss the testimony of people who were not only conservative Republicans but who both voted for Trump and campaigned for him?

How can you excuse Trump's vilification of poll workers, who were guilty of nothing but doing their jobs?

---

it's interesting that your poll quotes 60% of Americans believe in what they're hearing from the J6 committee yet nobody's watching it according to TV ratings. We're supposed to believe Adam the great in what he said on TV yesterday but he's been wrong about just everything related to Trump the Russia stuff, the phone calls stuff.(nice retraction from the press on misquoting Trump on the GA phone calls)

Those same indies are polling as voting with Trump if the 2024 election waa held today..

Stop being a useful idiot..

Prosecute Trump, I dont care..I do care that our current govt keeps lying to the American people. The people deserve better than focusing on the past.

---

The GA phone call stories were substantially accurate. Trump's spinmeisters are leaning heavily, and very dishonestly, on a couple of immaterial misquotes that were soon enough corrected.

---

immaterial misquotes? Are you serious Clark?!

---

...The gist of the conversation is no different.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.

Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.

It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.

What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.

The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."

Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.

Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.

---

link to the poll and its cross tabs please and thanks!

Its never encouraging to cite an ABC poll..

---

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/10-americans-trump-charged-jan-riot-poll/story?id=85482369

91% of Democrats, 21% of Republicans, and what should be most worrying for you, 62% of independents.

Also, 60% of Americans believe the committee has been fair.

You can diss the messenger all you want, but it shows the committee is being effective with people who aren't in the cult.

Serious questions:

How can you dismiss the testimony of people who were not only conservative Republicans but who both voted for Trump and campaigned for him?

How can you excuse Trump's vilification of poll workers, who were guilty of nothing but doing their jobs?

---

it's interesting that your poll quotes 60% of Americans believe in what they're hearing from the J6 committee yet nobody's watching it according to TV ratings. We're supposed to believe Adam the great in what he said on TV yesterday but he's been wrong about just everything related to Trump the Russia stuff, the phone calls stuff.(nice retraction from the press on misquoting Trump on the GA phone calls)

Those same indies are polling as voting with Trump if the 2024 election waa held today..

Stop being a useful idiot..

Prosecute Trump, I dont care..I do care that our current govt keeps lying to the American people. The people deserve better than focusing on the past.

---

The GA phone call stories were substantially accurate. Trump's spinmeisters are leaning heavily, and very dishonestly, on a couple of immaterial misquotes that were soon enough corrected.

---

immaterial misquotes? Are you serious Clark?!

---

There were two phone calls at issue. In one he told GA officials specifically to find 11,780 votes. That is an accurate quote. In another he was quoted as saying "find the fraud" and "you'll be a hero" when he actually said they would find dishonesty and they would be praised. The gist of the conversation is no different.

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.

Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.

It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.

What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.

The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."

Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.

Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.

---

link to the poll and its cross tabs please and thanks!

Its never encouraging to cite an ABC poll..

---

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/10-americans-trump-charged-jan-riot-poll/story?id=85482369

91% of Democrats, 21% of Republicans, and what should be most worrying for you, 62% of independents.

Also, 60% of Americans believe the committee has been fair.

You can diss the messenger all you want, but it shows the committee is being effective with people who aren't in the cult.

Serious questions:

How can you dismiss the testimony of people who were not only conservative Republicans but who both voted for Trump and campaigned for him?

How can you excuse Trump's vilification of poll workers, who were guilty of nothing but doing their jobs?

---

it's interesting that your poll quotes 60% of Americans believe in what they're hearing from the J6 committee yet nobody's watching it according to TV ratings. We're supposed to believe Adam the great in what he said on TV yesterday but he's been wrong about just everything related to Trump the Russia stuff, the phone calls stuff.(nice retraction from the press on misquoting Trump on the GA phone calls)

Those same indies are polling as voting with Trump if the 2024 election waa held today..

Stop being a useful idiot..

Prosecute Trump, I dont care..I do care that our current govt keeps lying to the American people. The people deserve better than focusing on the past.

---

The GA phone call stories were substantially accurate. Trump's spinmeisters are leaning heavily, and very dishonestly, on a couple of immaterial misquotes that were soon enough corrected.

---

immaterial misquotes? Are you serious Clark?!

---

There were two phone calls at issue. In one he told GA officials specifically to find 11,780 votes. That is an accurate quote. In another he was quoted as saying "find the fraud" and "you'll be a hero" when he actually said they would find dishonesty and they would be praised. The gist of the conversation is no different.

---

if the officials in GA had done their job, they wouldnt have a report showing multiple violations of state and federal election law as well as a certified vote that is clearly innacurate. The "dishonesty" was there, the "fraud" may not have been.. but i digress

---

I don't know of any reason to think they certified an inaccurate vote. I've seen all kinds of "evidence" offered, but none of it ever seems to pan out.

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

Yesterday was sickening, but gave me hope in the sense that there are still a few Republicans who are more loyal to the Constitution than to Trump.

Though I have huge policy differences with people like Bowers and the others, I admire their courage and faith to stand tall against Trump.

It means that maybe Republicans and Democrats can rally around the shared values of the rule of law and democracy.

What Trump and his minions did to those poor election workers in GA was unconscionable. A low point, even for him. He ruined these women's lives just for doing their jobs well. That's up from 51% in April.

The alleged "clown show" has definitely revealed the crimes of the former "Clown in Chief."

Also encouraging is that a recent ABC News/Ipsos poll now shows that 58% of Americans believe Trump committed crimes and should be prosecuted.

Meanwhile, those in the Trump cult are looking like the Branch Davidians rallying around David Koresh. The more their leader is attacked, the more they defy facts, logic, and reason to cling to him.

---

link to the poll and its cross tabs please and thanks!

Its never encouraging to cite an ABC poll..

---

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/10-americans-trump-charged-jan-riot-poll/story?id=85482369

91% of Democrats, 21% of Republicans, and what should be most worrying for you, 62% of independents.

Also, 60% of Americans believe the committee has been fair.

You can diss the messenger all you want, but it shows the committee is being effective with people who aren't in the cult.

Serious questions:

How can you dismiss the testimony of people who were not only conservative Republicans but who both voted for Trump and campaigned for him?

How can you excuse Trump's vilification of poll workers, who were guilty of nothing but doing their jobs?

---

it's interesting that your poll quotes 60% of Americans believe in what they're hearing from the J6 committee yet nobody's watching it according to TV ratings. We're supposed to believe Adam the great in what he said on TV yesterday but he's been wrong about just everything related to Trump the Russia stuff, the phone calls stuff.(nice retraction from the press on misquoting Trump on the GA phone calls)

Those same indies are polling as voting with Trump if the 2024 election waa held today..

Stop being a useful idiot..

Prosecute Trump, I dont care..I do care that our current govt keeps lying to the American people. The people deserve better than focusing on the past.

---

The GA phone call stories were substantially accurate. Trump's spinmeisters are leaning heavily, and very dishonestly, on a couple of immaterial misquotes that were soon enough corrected.

---

immaterial misquotes? Are you serious Clark?!

---

There were two phone calls at issue. In one he told GA officials specifically to find 11,780 votes. That is an accurate quote. In another he was quoted as saying "find the fraud" and "you'll be a hero" when he actually said they would find dishonesty and they would be praised. The gist of the conversation is no different.

---

if the officials in GA had done their job, they wouldnt have a report showing multiple violations of state and federal election law as well as a certified vote that is clearly innacurate. The "dishonesty" was there, the "fraud" may not have been.. but i digress

---

I don't know of any reason to think they certified an inaccurate vote. I've seen all kinds of "evidence" offered, but none of it ever seems to pan out.

---

testimony in court says they don't have chain of custody logs, how do you count votes with no chain of custody? Russo you don't yet they did. Biden won by about 12,000 votes but we got 180,000 votes with no chain of custody. We have no idea who won Georgia. Stop excusing their incompetence.

That's one singular problem. There are dozen more problems just in Georgia. I don't have the time or the desire to go over the volumes of problems that were found in Pennsylvania and Arizona and several other states. There's nearly a dozen states and over 100 electoral's with questionable results. This is not just about the presidential election. Some of those state and local races could have also been affected.

Your TDS is blinding you to the fact that we have many states that used rules that are in violation of their own state laws as well as federal election law.

These are procedural errors, this is the lack of accountability for destruction of records, this is allowing votes to count that are clearly not eligible according to state legislated election law.

This has very little to do with Trump, this is where democracy is being attacked. You should focus on these things. What really happend should br staring a lawyer in the face, it wasnt a secret fraud boogieman..

Come on Sam, you are a smart person. You and I both know what happened. Elections were manipulated all over the country because nobody bothered to enforce the rules. I guess it really is about who is counting..

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Guy Noir said:

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I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.

Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications

Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.

It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.

---

While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.

In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.

---

What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less

---

So you think a more moderate candidate would fire up the base to turn out the vote and sway moderates? What is the last moderate that got elected? And on what issues do you feel moderation is necessary?

The Romney's, McCain's and Kasich's of the world may sway some independents and milquetoast "conservatives" such as yourself, but it generally keeps the base from turning out the vote. This has been true of every election for decades. Moderates who deviate from the base on issues generally don't get elected. This has been true for decades.

I think there are areas that conservatives can find common ground with most Americans, especially when it comes to the economy and crime. And it's been true for generations that economic issues are most likely to turn out the vote.

---

What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Aren't moderate Republicans part of the base or is it only voters who refuse to vote for the Republican if it is a moderate?

Look at Rawhide's post about three of four posts below, 9:04 AM today. He says he didn't vote for McCain or Romney and wouldn't have voted for Kasich. You seem to blame "miliquetoast conservatives for the election of Biden. What about "miliquetoast conservatives" like Raw who, by your reasoning, gave us Obama twice and Clinton twice?

---

I don't agree with Rawhide's approach. I'm a pragmatist and so I don't agree with his approach or your approach. If it was between Kasich and Biden, I'd absolutely vote Kasich.

But the statistics have shown that if the Republican candidate fails to excite the base, they don't turn out to vote. And generally moderate candidates simply don't excite the base. And when the base doesn't turn out to vote republicans lose. History has proven this.

---

I think some here would say that Trump excited the Republican base in 2020. He lost moderates and independents and lost by millions of votes, but he excited the base.

Why do you think only conservative Republicans are the base? Why aren't moderates the Republican base?

If Trump wins the fringe and loses moderates and independents, he loses.

What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Is it conservative or moderate?

---

In political terms, the base is the block of voters who are very unlikely to vote for the candidate of an opposing party, regardless of the specific views each candidate holds. In short they're not turncoats who will cast a vote for Biden if they don't like the Republican party's candidate, such as a number of Never Trumpers. In most elections it's important for the candidate to excite the base. If they sit it out - like they did during the McCain and Romney elections, then the republicans have little chance of winning.

Now that does not mean the Republican candidate doesn't need to attract at least some independents and moderates. Indeed he or she does, as Trump did in 2016. But exciting the base is typically more important because they're the ones who turn out the vote. If they decide to sit it out, the republican candidate is in trouble.

When they start appealing to wishy washy Luke warms such as yourself who really aren't all that conservative or concerned with conservative polices, republicans lose. That's a proven losing strategy time and time again.

---

You're right, I don't put party first. You're a good "base" voter; "my party right or wrong".

Trump is no conservative. A party that continues to protect and promote him is not worthy of support. His actions after the election and especially Jan 6 are a disqualification. Trump is bad for the country and bad for the Republican Party.

I agree with your definition of "base voter". I put the base vote at about 20% of the general election voters for Republicans but that is just a guess.

---

I realized back in 2020 that Biden would be a disaster, and I have been proven right with each passing day. He has done lasting harm to our country. Your approach to voting has likewise proven a disaster.

---

You may be right; I voted for Trump

Unlike you, I put values and integrity first. I'll vote country over Party

---

Let's not pretend that you haven't said on this very thread if you had to do it all over again you wouldn't vote Trump. Instead you would choose the current disaster.

And despite whatever you would like to fool yourself into believing, that is not putting country first.

---

Not voting for Trump is different from voting for a Republican.

And you aren't putting the country first with blind devotion to a political party. I'll put integrity and character before a party

---

I understand why you are trying to make distinctions without a difference, but that's all they are. Let's also not pretend that Biden has integrity and character that offset his horribly destructive policies. He has none of the above, and bad policy to boot.

The results have shown a vote for anyone but Trump if you are a conservative was a huge mistake. You chose poorly.

---

You don't get to define conservative for the world.
Trump isn't conservative. Never Trump

---

As I said, I am a pragmatist, and made the correct decision as a conservative. Your position got us Biden - the least friendly candidate to conservative policies in the history of the country. Congrats!

---

As has been posted many times, I voted for Trump and he is still trying to steal the election. Never Trump.

You're no conservative, you're a pragmatist who puts party ahead of principle. I'll stick with Burke.

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Mothra said:

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My pragmatism is going to get Roe v. Wade overturned, and save thousands of innocent childrens' lives. The Supreme Court was one of the major reasons I supported Trump in 2016 and again in 2020.

But it's me and not you that lacks principles. Sure bro. I guess you're going to believe whatever helps you to sleep better at night.

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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Guy Noir said:

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I do not look at the issue as being "Supporting Trump" or "Supporting Biden". I think this country can come up with a better candidate than either one.

Trump did not just say mean things. He was inaccurate and disrespectful in many things he said. One example is that he did not communicate the covid situation very well. He name-called the Chinese about the virus (which provided no benefit) and he promoted some medicines that have proven to be ineffective in treating the covid virus. Trump also reported inaccurate crowd counts for his inauguration. His constant reporting of information was inaccurate. The USA needs a leader that is clear, concise, and accurate in their communications

Biden is worse. Biden has promoted overspending. He denied that inflation was a problem (that it was transitory), and then he has deflected the cause of inflation, saying it is caused by the Russian war and the greedy oil companies. Biden has not acknowledged that the executive orders from his first days as President, have truly contributed to the oil shortage. He has basically ignored the border problem. The FDA, under Biden, has been slow to fix the baby formula shortage. It is all tax and talk with this President and when he talks he has made a number of blunders.

It is a great time for the Republicans to appeal to the moderate Republicans and to field a good candidate for 2024. Many moderates are disenchanted with the Democratic leadership. It is those votes that will provide success in 2024. A small percentage of ultra conservatives cannot win alone.

---

While short sighted moderate republicans are one of the reasons we got an incompetent boob elected, I am not sure an appeal to moderates is the answer. That's been tried and failed not only here, but throughout the world and it typically doesn't work. Canada just tried it. We tried it with Romney and McCain. It's firing up the base that generally gets people elected.

In this case I think Biden himself does the best job of getting a conservative elected. A strong touch candidate without trumps baggage makes sense.

---

What percent of the November election turnout is the base? (30%, 60%)
I think voter enthusiasm is important, but it takes a lot more than just the base, which I put a 30% or less

---

So you think a more moderate candidate would fire up the base to turn out the vote and sway moderates? What is the last moderate that got elected? And on what issues do you feel moderation is necessary?

The Romney's, McCain's and Kasich's of the world may sway some independents and milquetoast "conservatives" such as yourself, but it generally keeps the base from turning out the vote. This has been true of every election for decades. Moderates who deviate from the base on issues generally don't get elected. This has been true for decades.

I think there are areas that conservatives can find common ground with most Americans, especially when it comes to the economy and crime. And it's been true for generations that economic issues are most likely to turn out the vote.

---

What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Aren't moderate Republicans part of the base or is it only voters who refuse to vote for the Republican if it is a moderate?

Look at Rawhide's post about three of four posts below, 9:04 AM today. He says he didn't vote for McCain or Romney and wouldn't have voted for Kasich. You seem to blame "miliquetoast conservatives for the election of Biden. What about "miliquetoast conservatives" like Raw who, by your reasoning, gave us Obama twice and Clinton twice?

---

I don't agree with Rawhide's approach. I'm a pragmatist and so I don't agree with his approach or your approach. If it was between Kasich and Biden, I'd absolutely vote Kasich.

But the statistics have shown that if the Republican candidate fails to excite the base, they don't turn out to vote. And generally moderate candidates simply don't excite the base. And when the base doesn't turn out to vote republicans lose. History has proven this.

---

I think some here would say that Trump excited the Republican base in 2020. He lost moderates and independents and lost by millions of votes, but he excited the base.

Why do you think only conservative Republicans are the base? Why aren't moderates the Republican base?

If Trump wins the fringe and loses moderates and independents, he loses.

What percent of the vote is the Republican base? Is it conservative or moderate?

---

In political terms, the base is the block of voters who are very unlikely to vote for the candidate of an opposing party, regardless of the specific views each candidate holds. In short they're not turncoats who will cast a vote for Biden if they don't like the Republican party's candidate, such as a number of Never Trumpers. In most elections it's important for the candidate to excite the base. If they sit it out - like they did during the McCain and Romney elections, then the republicans have little chance of winning.

Now that does not mean the Republican candidate doesn't need to attract at least some independents and moderates. Indeed he or she does, as Trump did in 2016. But exciting the base is typically more important because they're the ones who turn out the vote. If they decide to sit it out, the republican candidate is in trouble.

When they start appealing to wishy washy Luke warms such as yourself who really aren't all that conservative or concerned with conservative polices, republicans lose. That's a proven losing strategy time and time again.

---

You're right, I don't put party first. You're a good "base" voter; "my party right or wrong".

Trump is no conservative. A party that continues to protect and promote him is not worthy of support. His actions after the election and especially Jan 6 are a disqualification. Trump is bad for the country and bad for the Republican Party.

I agree with your definition of "base voter". I put the base vote at about 20% of the general election voters for Republicans but that is just a guess.

---

I realized back in 2020 that Biden would be a disaster, and I have been proven right with each passing day. He has done lasting harm to our country. Your approach to voting has likewise proven a disaster.

---

You may be right; I voted for Trump

Unlike you, I put values and integrity first. I'll vote country over Party

---

Let's not pretend that you haven't said on this very thread if you had to do it all over again you wouldn't vote Trump. Instead you would choose the current disaster.

And despite whatever you would like to fool yourself into believing, that is not putting country first.

---

Not voting for Trump is different from voting for a Republican.

And you aren't putting the country first with blind devotion to a political party. I'll put integrity and character before a party

---

I understand why you are trying to make distinctions without a difference, but that's all they are. Let's also not pretend that Biden has integrity and character that offset his horribly destructive policies. He has none of the above, and bad policy to boot.

The results have shown a vote for anyone but Trump if you are a conservative was a huge mistake. You chose poorly.

---

You don't get to define conservative for the world.
Trump isn't conservative. Never Trump

---

As I said, I am a pragmatist, and made the correct decision as a conservative. Your position got us Biden - the least friendly candidate to conservative policies in the history of the country. Congrats!

---

As has been posted many times, I voted for Trump and he is still trying to steal the election. Never Trump.

You're no conservative, you're a pragmatist who puts party ahead of principle. I'll stick with Burke.

---

As has been posted many times, we know you regret voting for Trump and would not have done so again. You've made that position very clear - a position that got us Biden. Congrats!

And yes, you're so conservative, you would rather the most liberal president in history get elected than the much more conservative candidate.

Like I said, you're no conservative. You're a fool.

---

I regret my vote for Trump in 2020. He is a crook.

You are a pragmatist with no principles. What does Russia Today, your go-to news source, have to say?

Trump is no conservative and neither are you.

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Osodecentx said:

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Mothra said:

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My pragmatism is going to get Roe v. Wade overturned, and save thousands of innocent childrens' lives. The Supreme Court was one of the major reasons I supported Trump in 2016 and again in 2020.

But it's me and not you that lacks principles. Sure bro. I guess you're going to believe whatever helps you to sleep better at night.

---

You're a Neville Chamberlain conservative

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

My pragmatism is going to get Roe v. Wade overturned, and save thousands of innocent childrens' lives. The Supreme Court was one of the major reasons I supported Trump in 2016 and again in 2020.

But it's me and not you that lacks principles. Sure bro. I guess you're going to believe whatever helps you to sleep better at night.

---

You're a Neville Chamberlain conservative

---

It's ironic that you would invoke his name given the fact it is your position that is a vote in favor of death chambers for babies. But again, whatever helps you sleep better.

I sleep fine knowing my vote helped curb that heinous practice. But at least you can feel good about the stand you've taken against the orange Satan as Biden destroys the country.

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

My pragmatism is going to get Roe v. Wade overturned, and save thousands of innocent childrens' lives. The Supreme Court was one of the major reasons I supported Trump in 2016 and again in 2020.

But it's me and not you that lacks principles. Sure bro. I guess you're going to believe whatever helps you to sleep better at night.

---

You're a Neville Chamberlain conservative

---

It's ironic that you would invoke his name given the fact it is your position that is a vote in favor of death chambers for babies. But again, whatever helps you sleep better.

I sleep fine knowing my vote helped curb that heinous practice. But at least you can feel good about the stand you've taken against the orange Satan as Biden destroys the country.

---

I think you really believe your own *****

If Trump steals an election, that's cool as long as the market is up

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

My pragmatism is going to get Roe v. Wade overturned, and save thousands of innocent childrens' lives. The Supreme Court was one of the major reasons I supported Trump in 2016 and again in 2020.

But it's me and not you that lacks principles. Sure bro. I guess you're going to believe whatever helps you to sleep better at night.

---

You're a Neville Chamberlain conservative

---

It's ironic that you would invoke his name given the fact it is your position that is a vote in favor of death chambers for babies. But again, whatever helps you sleep better.

I sleep fine knowing my vote helped curb that heinous practice. But at least you can feel good about the stand you've taken against the orange Satan as Biden destroys the country.

---

Wasn't that the 2016 election?

I think you really believe your own *****

If Trump steals an election, that's cool as long as the market is up

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

My pragmatism is going to get Roe v. Wade overturned, and save thousands of innocent childrens' lives. The Supreme Court was one of the major reasons I supported Trump in 2016 and again in 2020.

But it's me and not you that lacks principles. Sure bro. I guess you're going to believe whatever helps you to sleep better at night.

---

You're a Neville Chamberlain conservative

---

It's ironic that you would invoke his name given the fact it is your position that is a vote in favor of death chambers for babies. But again, whatever helps you sleep better.

I sleep fine knowing my vote helped curb that heinous practice. But at least you can feel good about the stand you've taken against the orange Satan as Biden destroys the country.

---

I think you really believe your own *****

If Trump steals an election, that's cool as long as the market is up

---

As I said above, I don't have to approve of Trump's behavior to understand the lives that will be saved because of his election, nor do I have to approve of his actions in order to understand that Biden's policies are far worse for our country than Trump's meager attempts to "steal" the 2020 election. Again, it's called pragmatism.

BTW, you seem angry and flustered, and your showing on this thread is even worse than usual. Might be a good idea to take a break for the evening. Perhaps go watch some Jan. 6th hearing re-runs and get re-charged. Tomorrow's a new day.

---

Porteroso said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

My pragmatism is going to get Roe v. Wade overturned, and save thousands of innocent childrens' lives. The Supreme Court was one of the major reasons I supported Trump in 2016 and again in 2020.

But it's me and not you that lacks principles. Sure bro. I guess you're going to believe whatever helps you to sleep better at night.

---

You're a Neville Chamberlain conservative

---

It's ironic that you would invoke his name given the fact it is your position that is a vote in favor of death chambers for babies. But again, whatever helps you sleep better.

I sleep fine knowing my vote helped curb that heinous practice. But at least you can feel good about the stand you've taken against the orange Satan as Biden destroys the country.

---

I think you really believe your own *****

If Trump steals an election, that's cool as long as the market is up

---

As I said above, I don't have to approve of Trump's behavior to understand the lives that will be saved because of his election, nor do I have to approve of his actions in order to understand that Biden's policies are far worse for our country than Trump's meager attempts to "steal" the 2020 election. Again, it's called pragmatism.

BTW, you seem angry and flustered, and your showing on this thread is even worse than usual. Might be a good idea to take a break for the evening. Perhaps go watch some Jan. 6th hearing re-runs and get re-charged. Tomorrow's a new day.

---

But he's the last person you'd vote for, don't forget to your lines.

---

Mothra said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

My pragmatism is going to get Roe v. Wade overturned, and save thousands of innocent childrens' lives. The Supreme Court was one of the major reasons I supported Trump in 2016 and again in 2020.

But it's me and not you that lacks principles. Sure bro. I guess you're going to believe whatever helps you to sleep better at night.

---

You're a Neville Chamberlain conservative

---

It's ironic that you would invoke his name given the fact it is your position that is a vote in favor of death chambers for babies. But again, whatever helps you sleep better.

I sleep fine knowing my vote helped curb that heinous practice. But at least you can feel good about the stand you've taken against the orange Satan as Biden destroys the country.

---

I think you really believe your own *****

If Trump steals an election, that's cool as long as the market is up

---

As I said above, I don't have to approve of Trump's behavior to understand the lives that will be saved because of his election, nor do I have to approve of his actions in order to understand that Biden's policies are far worse for our country than Trump's meager attempts to "steal" the 2020 election. Again, it's called pragmatism.

BTW, you seem angry and flustered, and your showing on this thread is even worse than usual. Might be a good idea to take a break for the evening. Perhaps go watch some Jan. 6th hearing re-runs and get re-charged. Tomorrow's a new day.

---

But he's the last person you'd vote for, don't forget to your lines.

---

If you had read a little closer, you would have noticed I said he was the last Republican candidate I wanted to win the 2016 primary.

I know reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, but it does help when you attempt to play gotcha.

---

Quote:

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Trump would be my last choice. Didn't vote for him in the 2016 primaries, and won't vote for him if he decides to run again (let's hope not).

But what I am really interested in is if he does run and win, how long will it take him to destroy democracy, as we keep hearing he will do.

I am with you on DeSantis.

---

Porteroso said:

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Mothra said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Mothra said:

---

My pragmatism is going to get Roe v. Wade overturned, and save thousands of innocent childrens' lives. The Supreme Court was one of the major reasons I supported Trump in 2016 and again in 2020.

But it's me and not you that lacks principles. Sure bro. I guess you're going to believe whatever helps you to sleep better at night.

---

You're a Neville Chamberlain conservative

---

It's ironic that you would invoke his name given the fact it is your position that is a vote in favor of death chambers for babies. But again, whatever helps you sleep better.

I sleep fine knowing my vote helped curb that heinous practice. But at least you can feel good about the stand you've taken against the orange Satan as Biden destroys the country.

---

I think you really believe your own *****

If Trump steals an election, that's cool as long as the market is up

---

As I said above, I don't have to approve of Trump's behavior to understand the lives that will be saved because of his election, nor do I have to approve of his actions in order to understand that Biden's policies are far worse for our country than Trump's meager attempts to "steal" the 2020 election. Again, it's called pragmatism.

BTW, you seem angry and flustered, and your showing on this thread is even worse than usual. Might be a good idea to take a break for the evening. Perhaps go watch some Jan. 6th hearing re-runs and get re-charged. Tomorrow's a new day.

---

But he's the last person you'd vote for, don't forget to your lines.

---

If you had read a little closer, you would have noticed I said he was the last Republican candidate I wanted to win the 2016 primary.

I know reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, but it does help when you attempt to play gotcha.

---

This was your entire post. Please at least edit your posts if you're going to try to lie about them. At least make this more challenging than throwing your actual post back at you.

Quote:

---

Trump would be my last choice. Didn't vote for him in the 2016 primaries, and won't vote for him if he decides to run again (let's hope not).

But what I am really interested in is if he does run and win, how long will it take him to destroy democracy, as we keep hearing he will do.

I am with you on DeSantis.

---

---

Quote:

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You don't get to define conservative for the world.
Trump isn't conservative. Never Trump

---