Doc Holliday said:
Sam Lowry said:
Oldbear83 said:
Sam: "The point is that no patriotic American should support Trump again, regardless of what Congress does"
Spoken like a true Schiffist.
My point is that you have zero standing to decree what makes someone a "patriotic American".
Trump started no new wars. A "patriotic American" might well prefer that to the wars started by Bush, Obama and Biden.
Trump focused on jobs and energy independence. A "patriotic American" might well prefer a strong, thriving America to what Obama gave us with socialized medicine and Biden did with his economic cirrhosis.
Let the people decide, based on the candidates and their polices. No pre-conditions or media massaging necessary or appropriate.
Patriots can disagree on all kinds of policies. What must be agreed is that there are lines we won't cross in pursuit of our agenda. As one of the committee's witnesses explained, Trump had every right to litigate the election in court. When he loses in court and continues to challenge the results for months and years, he's no longer attacking just the election. He's attacking our legal and constitutional system itself. That he's doing so based on a lie only makes it worse. Worse yet, unlike Biden, he had an actual plan to steal the election and tried his best to effect it. And he did all of this in plain view without a hint of shame or remorse. You defend it and still presume to call others un-American or fascist. It's you who lack standing.
He didn't actually do anything nor did he order anyone to do anything. He just voiced his opinion.
He tried with the gang who couldn't shoot straight
'Kind of Wild/Creative': Emails Shed Light on Trump Fake Electors PlanPreviously undisclosed communications among Trump campaign aides and outside advisers provide new insight into their efforts to overturn the election in the weeks leading to Jan. 6.
Previously undisclosed emails provide an inside look at the increasingly desperate and often slapdash efforts by
advisers to President Donald J. Trump to reverse his election defeat in the weeks before the Jan. 6 attack, including acknowledgments that a key element of their plan was of dubious legality and lived up to its billing as "fake."The dozens of emails among people connected to the Trump campaign,
outside advisers and close associates of Mr. Trump show a particular focus on assembling lists of people who would claim with no basis to be Electoral College electors on his behalf in battleground states that he had lost.In emails reviewed by The New York Times and authenticated by people who had worked with the Trump campaign at the time,
one lawyer involved in the detailed discussions repeatedly used the word "fake" to refer to the so-called electors, who were
intended to provide Vice President Mike Pence and Mr. Trump's allies in Congress a rationale for derailing the congressional process of certifying the outcome. And lawyers working on the proposal made clear
they knew that the pro-Trump electors they were putting forward might not hold up to legal scrutiny. "We would just be sending in 'fake' electoral votes to Pence so that 'someone' in Congress can make an objection when they start counting votes, and start arguing that the 'fake' votes should be counted," Jack Wilenchik, a Phoenix-based lawyer who helped organize the pro-Trump electors in Arizona, wrote in a Dec. 8, 2020, email to Boris Epshteyn, a strategic adviser for the Trump campaign.
In a follow-up email, Mr. Wilenchik wrote that "'alternative' votes is probably a better term than 'fake' votes," adding a smiley face emoji.
The emails provide new details of how a wing of the Trump campaign worked with outside lawyers and advisers to organize the elector plan and pursue a range of other options, often with little thought to their practicality. One email showed that many of Mr. Trump's top advisers were informed of problems naming Trump electors in Michigan a state he had lost because pandemic rules had closed the state Capitol building where the so-called electors had to gather.
The emails show that participants in the discussions reported details of their activities to Rudolph W. Giuliani, Mr. Trump's personal lawyer, and in at least one case to Mark Meadows, the White House chief of staff. Around the same time, according to the House committee investigating Jan. 6, Mr. Meadows emailed another campaign adviser saying,
"We just need to have someone coordinating the electors for states."https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/26/us/politics/trump-fake-electors-emails.html
