Afghanistan What a tragedy!

133,982 Views | 1375 Replies | Last: 2 mo ago by Harrison Bergeron
jupiter
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:47p, 8/16/21


It may make the US look incompetent....but people in the thousands taking desperate measures and willing to risk their lives to escape the Taliban looks especially bad......for the Taliban



not making America look particularly bad here either
Reply Quote
1 edit
Jack Bauer
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to boognish_bear • 9:52p, 8/16/21
boognish_bear said:
I see the direction the late night comedians will be going in to cover for Joe Biden...
Reply Quote
4
boognish_bear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Jack Bauer • 9:55p, 8/16/21
Jack Bauer said:
boognish_bear said:
I see the direction the late night comedians will be going in to cover for Joe Biden...


This one actually seemed pretty balanced showing Obama's and Biden's missed judgements on Afghanistan as well
Reply Quote
ATL Bear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to boognish_bear • 10:15p, 8/16/21
boognish_bear said:


" The Taliban know how unpopular they are among Afghans, especially women. "You do not see Muslims flocking to become part of these very antiquated and rigid and idiosyncratic versions of a caliphate," says Ms. Bennett. In 2019, it was in large part the low support among Muslims living under the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria that helped lead to the demise of ISIS.

In many Muslim countries, from Tunisia to Indonesia, the people have rejected violent jihadis, often quietly if not overtly. The peaceful intent of most of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims remains a powerful force. The U.S. and its partners must continue to harness it. One example is the Abraham Accords in 2020 that established formal ties between Israel and several Arab nations. In the past six years, deaths from terrorist attacks of any kind have declined year by year, according to the Institute for Economics and Peace. The largest decreases were in Syria, Iraq, and Nigeria.

Jihadi fighters are most vulnerable from their own Muslim communities. The Taliban must know this and might decide to keep foreign jihadis out of Afghanistan. An avenue of hope is for the world to encourage Afghan Muslims to practice their faith by rejecting a violent ideology.

The best reaction to the Taliban takeover is not fear. Then the U.S. efforts in that country including building up education and women's rights over 20 years were not in vain."
This is an opinion piece which is incredibly naive and tone deaf to what's happening in the Islamic world. The Taliban have taken over Afghanistan on the back of popular support. Iran just elected a new generation of hardliners. Turkey is turning as fundamentalist as Iran. An al-Qaeda linked group slaughtered 160 people in a village in Burkina Faso recently. There are over a million people displaced in Africa due to Islamic rebellions. She mentioned Tunisia who just had a basic coup by their President.

Over and over the romanticizing of peaceful Islam proves to be a folly. It's not because Muslims can't be peaceful, but Islamism proves to be incompatible every time.
Reply Quote
2
JXL
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to LIB,MR BEARS • 10:19p, 8/16/21
LIB,MR BEARS said:
boognish_bear said:


What he said: "I stand squarely behind my decision"

What China heard: "Taiwan is yours."


He and Trump were right that we needed to be out of there.
Reply Quote
GrowlTowel
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to HuMcK • 10:23p, 8/16/21
HuMcK said:
This feels weird to say, but it's true. Trump's election lies have proven to be far more dangerous to Americans in the homeland than the Taliban ever could be. No Taliban fighter ever breached the Capitol and threatened Congress like Trump's supporters did based on his lies. Incidentally, it was those lies that got him banned.


And it is official, the Baylor degree has lost value.
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Reply Quote
4
Forest Bueller
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:40p, 8/16/21
Summary of Biden's speech.

It's your fault

and your fault

and your fault

AND! your fault

But the buck stops here.
Reply Quote
7
GoldMind
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
11:45p, 8/16/21
I've said it once, I've said it 12875 times. Joes record on foreign policy is a mire, littered with dead children, using depleted uranium on civilian targets and screaming at foreign heads of state.

Winning by cheating is just as impressive as winning fairly, probably even more so. Your opponent was better than you in every way, and you beat them with your brain.
Reply Quote
6
HuMcK
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
5:50a, 8/17/21
The Afghan air force was not as grounded by a lack of contractors as people made them out to be. Didn't fly any combat or support missions, but they sure were able to fly away out of country...
Reply Quote
1
Jacques Strap
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
8:21a, 8/17/21
I think the crew did the right thing, but this is just another example of how the military was forced into making an on the fly split second decision amid chaos due to a complete lack of any contingency planning from the Biden administration.

inside Reach 871, A US C-17 Packed With 640 Afghans Trying to Escape the Taliban


Quote:
U.S. Air Force C-17 Globemaster III safely evacuated some 640 Afghans from Kabul late Sunday, according to U.S. defense officials and photos obtained by Defense One.

The C-17, using the call sign Reach 871, was not intending to take on such a large load, but panicked Afghans who had been cleared to evacuate pulled themselves onto the C-17's half-open ramp, one defense official said.

Instead of trying to force those refugees off the aircraft, "the crew made the decision to go," a defense official told Defense One. "Approximately 640 Afghan civilians disembarked the aircraft when it arrived at its destination," the defense official said.



Reply Quote
3
2 edits
boognish_bear
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Jacques Strap • 8:23a, 8/17/21
Jacques Strap said:
I think the crew did the right thing, but this is just another example of how the military was forced into making an on the fly split second decision amid chaos due to a complete lack of any contingency planning from the Biden administration.

inside Reach 871, A US C-17 Packed With 640 Afghans Trying to Escape the Taliban


Quote:
U.S. Air Force C-17 Globemaster III safely evacuated some 640 Afghans from Kabul late Sunday, according to U.S. defense officials and photos obtained by Defense One.

The C-17, using the call sign Reach 871, was not intending to take on such a large load, but panicked Afghans who had been cleared to evacuate pulled themselves onto the C-17's half-open ramp, one defense official said.

Instead of trying to force those refugees off the aircraft, "the crew made the decision to go," a defense official told Defense One. "Approximately 640 Afghan civilians disembarked the aircraft when it arrived at its destination," the defense official said.





Thank God it worked out ok
Reply Quote
3
Jacques Strap
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
8:30a, 8/17/21
I hope somehow some way the US citizens trapped behind checkpoints make it out. No telling how much US will have to pay the Taliban to make that happen. Could this have been avoided had Biden/Intel/State not been caught so flat footed? The State department flew in a new rotation for the Kabul embassy last Tuesday so they were clueless about what was happening on the ground, or worse ignored what the intel peopel were saying.





Reply Quote
1 edit
TexasScientist
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
8:39a, 8/17/21
It's sickening.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
Reply Quote
1
Jacques Strap
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to TexasScientist • 8:44a, 8/17/21
TexasScientist said:
It's sickening.

People/media say this US politician or that US politician is a Nazi. No, they are not. The Taliban are real life Nazis and worse because of the way they treat females.
Reply Quote
4
TexasScientist
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to JXL • 8:47a, 8/17/21
JXL said:
LIB,MR BEARS said:
boognish_bear said:


What he said: "I stand squarely behind my decision"

What China heard: "Taiwan is yours."


He and Trump were right that we needed to be out of there.
At this point, why? It made far more sense to maintain a stabilizing presence there, giving them the ability to grow into a viable country. At this point we had a much smaller footprint there than Iraq, SK, Germany, or Italy. Isis, Al Qaeda, and the Taliban are back in business now.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
Reply Quote
TexasScientist
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to HuMcK • 8:49a, 8/17/21
HuMcK said:
The Afghan air force was not as grounded by a lack of contractors as people made them out to be. Didn't fly any combat or support missions, but they sure were able to fly away out of country...
What else would you expect with Biden's cut and run policy?
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
Reply Quote
TexasScientist
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Jacques Strap • 8:51a, 8/17/21
Jacques Strap said:
TexasScientist said:
It's sickening.

People/media say this US politician or that US politician is a Nazi. No, they are not. The Taliban are real life Nazis and worse because of the way they treat females.
We gave the people of Afghanistan over to Biden barbarism.
“It is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.” ~ Upton Sinclair
Reply Quote
Jacques Strap
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to ATL Bear • 9:02a, 8/17/21
ATL Bear said:
Jacques Strap said:
Giving away Bagram AFB was a huge loss. Now we are stuck trying to secure a civilian airport for an airlift while surrounded by ever increasing numbers of Taliban..

US left Afghan airfield at night, didn't tell new commander


Quote:
BAGRAM, Afghanistan (AP) The U.S. left Afghanistan's Bagram Airfield after nearly 20 years by shutting off the electricity and slipping away in the night without notifying the base's new Afghan commander, who discovered the Americans' departure more than two hours after they left, Afghan military officials said.

From the article. Oof.

Quote:
The statement said the handover of the many bases had been in the process soon after President Joe Biden's mid-April announcement that America was withdrawing the last of its forces. Leggett said in the statement that they had coordinated their departures with Afghanistan's leaders.

I'm beating a dead horse here, but losing Bagram was a big loss. If Joe ever takes questions from the press again I hope someone asks about this.



Reply Quote
robby44
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:07a, 8/17/21
GOP Removes Page Praising Donald Trump's 'Historic' Peace Deal With Taliban

https://www.newsweek.com/gop-removes-webpage-praising-trumps-historic-peace-deal-taliban-1619605

David Weigel, of The Washington Post, was the first to spot that the page had been removed with the web address redirecting to a 404 error page featuring the quip: "It looks like you're as lost as Biden is."

The Guardian's congressional reporter Hugo Lowell later confirmed the webpage's removal after successfully tracking down the now-deleted page via The Wayback Machine digital archive.

Featured as part of a section titled "President Trump Is Bringing Peace In The Middle East," the page described how the former U.S. president had "continued to take the lead in peace talks."

The page also claims that "while President Trump has championed peace, Joe Biden has taken the lead in pushing for endless wars."

It's also notable that the now-deleted webpage claimed Trump had "taken action to defeat ISIS and eliminate dangerous leaders."

Abdul Ghani Baradar, the co-founder of the Taliban in Afghanistan and the organization's current political chief, was released from a Pakistani jail at the request of the US while Trump was in office.




Reply Quote
1
Jacques Strap
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to nein51 • 9:13a, 8/17/21
nein51 said:
Jacques Strap said:

He's 100% right about the need to evacuate anyone who wants to go. He's not entirely right about the Afghan forces but he makes some great points. His anger and sadness are the same emotions I'm feeling. It's unconscionable to leave the people who helped us behind if they want to leave. There should not be a United States that allows that to happen.

Partial transcript fo those that did not watch. If you do not take care of your friends, you will have no friends.


Quote:
"I feel like I watched a different speech than the rest of you guys. I was appalled. There was such a profound bald-faced lie in that speech, the idea we planned for every contingency? I have been personally trying to tell this administration since it took office. I have been trying to tell our government for years this was coming. We sent them plan after plan on how to evacuate these people. Nobody listened to us. They didn't plan for the evacuation of our Afghan war-time allies. They're trying to conduct it now at the 11th hour."

"I have Afghans on the ground right now who are telling me the Taliban going door to door in Kabul and making lists of people who used to work with us. They're telling them with smiles on their face, evil smiles. They will be back for them once we leave. So we either take them now, or these people are going to die. I have been trying to tell anyone who will listen that this is a never-again moment in the making. This is an administration that seems to be a profound champion and defender of human rights. Well, sometimes, human rights have to be defended at the barrel end of a gun. The Taliban are a modern version of the Nazis."

Quote:
"I'm not going to sit and listen to a president that I voted for. I was happy this man took office. I'm now appalled at that speech. I'm not going to sit here and have him lie to the American people. We did not plan as a government for this contingency. The American people, the advocates who have been pleading with the government, did plan for it. You can go to our website, evacuateourallies.org. We have had a plan. We have receipts. I put them on social media. No one got back with us. No, no, I'm not going to let them get away with this. We have to take these people. We have to take them now, or they are going to die."
Quote:

"These people went on to the next unit and the next mission time and time and time again, and how dare us to even contemplate leaving them behind to, again, what I consider to be a modern equivalent of the Nazi Party."
Reply Quote
3 edits
Doc Holliday
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:26a, 8/17/21
Lots of moves taking place.

Taliban takes over Afghanistan. China makes alliance with Taliban.

I foresee China taking over Taiwan very soon.
Reply Quote
5
HuMcK
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Doc Holliday • 9:32a, 8/17/21
Doc Holliday said:
Lots of moves taking place.

Taliban takes over Afghanistan. China makes alliance with Taliban.

I foresee China taking over Taiwan very soon.

We shall see. Once we are actually out of Afghanistan, a lot of those air and naval resources are probably headed to the Pacific.
Reply Quote
nein51
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Doc Holliday • 9:39a, 8/17/21
Doc Holliday said:
Lots of moves taking place.

Taliban takes over Afghanistan. China makes alliance with Taliban.

I foresee China taking over Taiwan very soon.

Would love to see China try to take Afghanistan. They might as well have a crack at it. Get mired there for a long time like everyone else has.
Reply Quote
2
Doc Holliday
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to HuMcK • 9:41a, 8/17/21
HuMcK said:
Doc Holliday said:
Lots of moves taking place.

Taliban takes over Afghanistan. China makes alliance with Taliban.

I foresee China taking over Taiwan very soon.

We shall see. Once we are actually out of Afghanistan, a lot of those air and naval resources are probably headed to the Pacific.
Our troops might be back but not our weapons.


Reply Quote
Doc Holliday
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to nein51 • 9:43a, 8/17/21
nein51 said:
Doc Holliday said:
Lots of moves taking place.

Taliban takes over Afghanistan. China makes alliance with Taliban.

I foresee China taking over Taiwan very soon.

Would love to see China try to take Afghanistan. They might as well have a crack at it. Get mired there for a long time like everyone else has.
They will just fund the region and push the threat of terrorism towards Europe as quickly as possible.

The west is destabilizing, at some point consolidation with China will be a real discussion.
Reply Quote
1
Jacques Strap
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to TexasScientist • 9:45a, 8/17/21
TexasScientist said:
Jacques Strap said:
TexasScientist said:
It's sickening.

People/media say this US politician or that US politician is a Nazi. No, they are not. The Taliban are real life Nazis and worse because of the way they treat females.
We gave the people of Afghanistan over to Biden barbarism.
I think leaving Afghanistan was the correct decision.
I acknowledge that decision may be proven wrong over time.
The planning and execution of leaving seems poor. I could be wrong about that also, but it looks really bad right now.
Read things posted here.
Find and post what you want for others
Decide for yourself.
Reply Quote
Jacques Strap
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to nein51 • 9:48a, 8/17/21
nein51 said:
Doc Holliday said:
Lots of moves taking place.

Taliban takes over Afghanistan. China makes alliance with Taliban.

I foresee China taking over Taiwan very soon.

Would love to see China try to take Afghanistan. They might as well have a crack at it. Get mired there for a long time like everyone else has.
I don't think China will take it, but I do think they will mine the hell out of it. Taliban needs money to fund their plans, China needs the minerals.

Afghanistan may be sitting on one of the richest troves of minerals in the world, valued at nearly $1 trillion, scientists say.

Reply Quote
1 edit
trey3216
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to nein51 • 9:53a, 8/17/21
nein51 said:
Doc Holliday said:
Lots of moves taking place.

Taliban takes over Afghanistan. China makes alliance with Taliban.

I foresee China taking over Taiwan very soon.

Would love to see China try to take Afghanistan. They might as well have a crack at it. Get mired there for a long time like everyone else has.
China doesn't care about the slaughtering or enslavement of innocents. It's part of their bag.
Mr. Treehorn treats objects like women, man.
Reply Quote
4
Guy Noir
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to trey3216 • 10:03a, 8/17/21
trey3216 said:
nein51 said:
Doc Holliday said:
Lots of moves taking place.

Taliban takes over Afghanistan. China makes alliance with Taliban.

I foresee China taking over Taiwan very soon.

Would love to see China try to take Afghanistan. They might as well have a crack at it. Get mired there for a long time like everyone else has.
China doesn't care about the slaughtering or enslavement of innocents. It's part of their bag.
Russia got mired in Afghanistan for a number of years. I remember thinking that I was glad that the USA learned our lesson in Vietnam. Then we invaded Afghanistan ourselves and stayed or got stuck. I think we just need to hold our noses and get out of there.
Reply Quote
1
whiterock
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to GoldMind • 10:10a, 8/17/21
GoldMind said:
LIB,MR BEARS said:
GoldMind said:
whiterock said:
HuMcK said:
whiterock said:
Canon said:
HuMcK said:
That's extra rich coming from him. Taliban was already violating the terms of their "deal" with offensives before Trunp left office. They wanted us gone months ago, Trump literally criticized Biden for pushing the date from May to September, if anything the withdrawal would have been more chaotic and unorganized back then if that's possible. Extra irony is someone that admin had released from prison in 2018 is the presumptive next Taloban leader of Afghanistan.

It's not an accident that the deal they struck scheduled the handover during the next admin's term, they knew how this was always going to end no matter who was in office, especially after the large prisoner release.


Your relationship with reality is so tenuous, you might as well be posting about Hogwarts.

Someone should remind him that Biden reversed Trump on international agreements (Climate Accords, Iran Nuke Deal) on day one.

Yet, he let a much narrower agreement with the Taliban remain in place.

So it's just fatuous to suggest that Biden doesn't own this disaster. Biden could have scrapped Trump's deal and reversed it for the long haul at any time after he was inaugurated until yesterday.

You have an extremely limited understanding of how things work for a someone who claims to have worked in intel analysis. Those 5000 prisoners Trump let go probably constituted the bulk of the current Taliban officer corps. We already know their next President was released from jail in 2018, what a boon that must have been to get a chess piece of that stature back in exchange for nothing. There was no going back from an action like that, nor was it feasible to re-import all of the equipment and forces that left the country before Biden ever got in office.

So no, armchair general, he could not have simply reversed course on a dime to go back to status quo, and it is laughable that you think otherwise. If we had broken the deal, right after giving them back their most seasoned fighters and removing our forces, they would have started targeting US soldiers again and casualties would have spiked, then you would be here talking about how stupid that move was.
What an unspeakably dumb argument, contradicted no less by the man you are trying to defend.

Biden could have, had he determined it necessary, surged 40k troops into the country and re-established the 20-year stalemate we maintained in the mountains.
Bush did that.
Biden did not do that.

He could have done another shock & awe campaign at any time.
He did not do that.

He could have prepared an orderly withdrawal, covered by shock & awe, that destroyed equipment rather than leaving full depots.
He did not do that.

He could have had assets in place to remove diplomats and citizens well in advance.
He did not do that.

A smart POTUS would have done at least a little of all that, in advance of departure.
He did not do that.

I mean, did he have the embassy on drawdown? They advertised for a FSN position THIS WEEK, so the answer is no. Key question: were there dependents at post? I don't know, but the answer will be telling.

Instead, just days ago, he stood in front of a microphone, as did his SecState separately back in July, and flatly refuted your assertions. He insisted that the Afghan Army would NOT collapse, that there would be no disorderly retreat. (so much for your assertions about Trump sealing our fate a year ago.) No serious observer of Afghan affairs ever thought Afghan Army could ever win a war against the Taliban. But it seems like Sleepy Joe the Foreign Policy Expert relied on exactly that calculation....that the Afghans could cover our retreat.

Seriously, Huck. The premise that this is Trump's fault is childishly silly. I'm certainly not suggesting vanquishing the Taliban was ever in the cards for anyone. My critique is about a botched retreat. And "botched" does not fully capture the essence of what happened.

In fairness to Biden and his predecessor, it was Obama who is most responsible. He could have pulled out of Afghanistan the day after we killed Bin Ladin, when the Taliban was not nearly as strong as it is today. Sure, over time, the same thing would have happened. But we would not be scrambling airlift assets which will not fully be on site for another 48 hours. By staying to craft the Afghani future, we mission-creeped ourselves from doing something only the USA could have done (find/kill BinLadin) to doing something our nation simply does not have the political will to do anymore - nationbuild.

And it's also not fair to really even solely blame Biden. The man is in an advanced stage of senescence. It's the Democrat foreign policy establishment, full of progressives these days, who are running the show. This is on them. They stood down the military to indoctrinate them in Critical Race Theory to prepare for what their worldview told them was the most imminent threat = white supremacy. Well, we're prepared for that paper tiger. It's the real tiger that got our ass. And until you knuckleheads wake up and joint the real world, you are going to keep making messes and getting people killed.


So basically, just spend into infinity to fight an enemy that's never been defeated.

Ok.
The first option would be spend into infinity. He gave several others, none of which you addressed. Kind of a dishonest approach by you, don't cha think?
Lol no.

No amount of measure drawback, shock and awe, covered evac was going to stop the Taliban. Their membership is comprised of muslims from Bosnia to the Philippines not just Afghans, every death they suffer aids in the recruitment of 5 more.

A smart potus wouldnt have ****ed with Afghanistan to begin with.
You guys need to get on message. Huck & B2B were just talking about how Americans conflate Taliban and AQ, implying we shouldn't have invaded Afghanistan at all. So which is it....a bunch of islamist groups all cooperating with one another in the same space toward the same objective, something we CAN and should have held the sponsoring state (in this case Afghanistan) responsible? or do we treat them all as discrete entities and not hold the ones who help accountable for the ones who engage?

You are also comically wrong about a shock & awe campaign buying us time for an orderly withdrawal. It would have kept them, at minimum, dozens of miles away from the capitol, if not bought months pf time for the new regime.

Guys, this is not about the Taliban returning to power. That was always the probable outcome. This is about HOW that happens. Trump put in place a template to accomplish that in an orderly fashion. Biden could have abandoned that template for his own, but he didn't. Worse, he counted on the Afghan Army to cover our retreat, when no serious person really thought that was in the cards. He didn't even worst-case prepare; look at all the materiel in depot, fer crissakes. I understand there are logistical challenges to returning vast weapons storehouses, but no plan for demolition?

Come on, man!
Reply Quote
4
Forest Bueller_bf
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Jacques Strap • 10:13a, 8/17/21
Jacques Strap said:


Here is the deal, the removal of US troops had to happen at some point. That is pretty much without dispute.

Biden gets zero fault for proceeding with an evacuation plan, it had to happen.

However, here is where Biden is 100% at fault. The completely incompetent way he administered the evacuation, it could have been done while troops were still protecting evacuees.

This evacuation could have been administered without a hitch.

He is blaming everybody but himself for this fiasco, when administratively it is 100% on him.

Reply Quote
11
Jacques Strap
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Forest Bueller_bf • 10:20a, 8/17/21
Forest Bueller_bf said:
Jacques Strap said:


Here is the deal, the removal of US troops had to happen at some point. That is pretty much without dispute.

Biden gets zero fault for proceeding with an evacuation plan, it had to happen.

However, here is where Biden is 100% at fault. The completely incompetent way he administered the evacuation, it could have been done while troops were still protecting evacuees.

This evacuation could have been administered without a hitch.

He is blaming everybody but himself for this fiasco, when administratively it is 100% on him.


Agree
Reply Quote
1
OsoCoreyell
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to HuMcK • 10:22a, 8/17/21
HuMcK said:
The Afghan air force was not as grounded by a lack of contractors as people made them out to be. Didn't fly any combat or support missions, but they sure were able to fly away out of country...
You are so pathetic. Is there anything this guy could do that you wouldn't try to justify?

To be clear, CNN is calling this a disaster.

Let that sink in and then reassess.
Reply Quote
5
nein51
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to trey3216 • 10:24a, 8/17/21
trey3216 said:
nein51 said:
Doc Holliday said:
Lots of moves taking place.

Taliban takes over Afghanistan. China makes alliance with Taliban.

I foresee China taking over Taiwan very soon.

Would love to see China try to take Afghanistan. They might as well have a crack at it. Get mired there for a long time like everyone else has.
China doesn't care about the slaughtering or enslavement of innocents. It's part of their bag.

I assure you Russia didn't care about that either. We know how that worked out
Reply Quote
Jacques Strap
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:32a, 8/17/21
WAPO: Biden's promise to restore competence to the presidency is undercut by chaos in Afghanistan


Quote:
"He didn't really spend much time on the issue that I think really concerns the American people, which is the execution of that decision. What went wrong and how it is going to be fixed?" said Leon Panetta, a longtime adviser to Democratic presidents who served as defense secretary under President Barack Obama. "It just struck me that they were crossing their fingers and hoping chaos would not result. And it doesn't work that way."

Panetta, who said he has been unsure what to tell the numerous contacts in Afghanistan calling him seeking a way out of the country, said, "right now it just does not look like we have our act together" and expressed surprise at the seeming lack of preparation.

"It's not the Joe Biden that I often saw in the National Security Council raising questions about the planning involved in any decision that the president had to face," he said. "He would be among those that would say, 'Have we looked at all the consequences? Have we looked at all the possible land mines that we might have to face in implementing that decision?' He was good at that. I assume he must have asked those questions. But it's clear that, for whatever reason, those plans or strategies or precautions were not put in place."

Leon Panetta Compares Afghanistan to Bay of Pigs: 'Our Credibility Right Now Is in Question'


Quote:
"We've been through a difficult few days here in Afghanistan, and he's got to make clear to the American people that as commander in chief, he is going to continue to protect our national security and that we are going to go after terrorists wherever the hell they are at. He's just got to ensure that the United States of America remains a strong world leader that can work with our allies to try to protect peace and prosperity. That is the message he's got to give the American people and the world, because our credibility right now is in question."
Reply Quote
1 edit
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.