Illegals in Martha's Vineyard

85,449 Views | 1489 Replies | Last: 15 hrs ago by whiterock
quash
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whiterock said:

quash said:

whiterock said:

quash said:

muddybrazos said:

quash said:

muddybrazos said:

Redbrickbear said:


We dont need any Somalians. We have enough uber drivers already and these people have like 70iqs.


Data for the IQ claim?
https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php

average IQ of a Somalian is 69.

Dayam. Failed countries have consequences.

Still wouldn't exclude them from America
Why? What would they bring to us positively that we could not get elsewhere at higher IQ, greater wealth, better education about political and religious liberty, etc.....?

We import people for OUR benefit, not theirs. Why should we not pick and choose?
EXACTLY what do you see about Somalia that makes you say "boy, we need more of that?"

Nice strawman.

I'm not advocating for recruitment, I oppose restrictions.

If a US employer wants to hire a Somali citizen that is his call. And his right.

Or do you oppose the right to contract?
The strawman is yours. I believe in self-government responsive to the will of the people and oppose devolving constitutional responsibility to corporate boards of directors.

We should import people who benefit US, with the word "benefit" being decided by the American people, who have every right to decide which classes of people are suitable or not.



Bull*****

Rights exist without government, government exists to protect rights.

Right to hire and contract is not done delegation of constitutional power. What a ridiculous and backwards notion.

You sure love you some boot leather.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Redbrickbear
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quash said:

whiterock said:

quash said:

muddybrazos said:

quash said:

muddybrazos said:

Redbrickbear said:


We dont need any Somalians. We have enough uber drivers already and these people have like 70iqs.


Data for the IQ claim?
https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php

average IQ of a Somalian is 69.

Dayam. Failed countries have consequences.

Still wouldn't exclude them from America
Why? What would they bring to us positively that we could not get elsewhere at higher IQ, greater wealth, better education about political and religious liberty, etc.....?

We import people for OUR benefit, not theirs. Why should we not pick and choose?
EXACTLY what do you see about Somalia that makes you say "boy, we need more of that?"



If a US employer wants to hire a Somali citizen that is his call. And his right.

Or do you oppose the right to contract?


Sure a U.S. company can hire at 70 IQ Somali if they want…but they have NO right to transport said Somalian into the USA
quash
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Redbrickbear said:

quash said:

whiterock said:

quash said:

muddybrazos said:

quash said:

muddybrazos said:

Redbrickbear said:


We dont need any Somalians. We have enough uber drivers already and these people have like 70iqs.


Data for the IQ claim?
https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php

average IQ of a Somalian is 69.

Dayam. Failed countries have consequences.

Still wouldn't exclude them from America
Why? What would they bring to us positively that we could not get elsewhere at higher IQ, greater wealth, better education about political and religious liberty, etc.....?

We import people for OUR benefit, not theirs. Why should we not pick and choose?
EXACTLY what do you see about Somalia that makes you say "boy, we need more of that?"



If a US employer wants to hire a Somali citizen that is his call. And his right.

Or do you oppose the right to contract?


Sure a U.S. company can hire at 70 IQ Somali if they want…but they have NO right to transport said Somalian into the USA

Sure they do.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
D. C. Bear
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quash said:

Redbrickbear said:

quash said:

whiterock said:

quash said:

muddybrazos said:

quash said:

muddybrazos said:

Redbrickbear said:


We dont need any Somalians. We have enough uber drivers already and these people have like 70iqs.


Data for the IQ claim?
https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php

average IQ of a Somalian is 69.

Dayam. Failed countries have consequences.

Still wouldn't exclude them from America
Why? What would they bring to us positively that we could not get elsewhere at higher IQ, greater wealth, better education about political and religious liberty, etc.....?

We import people for OUR benefit, not theirs. Why should we not pick and choose?
EXACTLY what do you see about Somalia that makes you say "boy, we need more of that?"



If a US employer wants to hire a Somali citizen that is his call. And his right.

Or do you oppose the right to contract?


Sure a U.S. company can hire at 70 IQ Somali if they want…but they have NO right to transport said Somalian into the USA

Sure they do.


Except that they don't.
You can argue that they should have that right, but they do not have that right now.
whiterock
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quash said:

whiterock said:

quash said:

whiterock said:

quash said:

muddybrazos said:

quash said:

muddybrazos said:

Redbrickbear said:


We dont need any Somalians. We have enough uber drivers already and these people have like 70iqs.


Data for the IQ claim?
https://www.worlddata.info/iq-by-country.php

average IQ of a Somalian is 69.

Dayam. Failed countries have consequences.

Still wouldn't exclude them from America
Why? What would they bring to us positively that we could not get elsewhere at higher IQ, greater wealth, better education about political and religious liberty, etc.....?

We import people for OUR benefit, not theirs. Why should we not pick and choose?
EXACTLY what do you see about Somalia that makes you say "boy, we need more of that?"

Nice strawman.

I'm not advocating for recruitment, I oppose restrictions.

If a US employer wants to hire a Somali citizen that is his call. And his right.

Or do you oppose the right to contract?
The strawman is yours. I believe in self-government responsive to the will of the people and oppose devolving constitutional responsibility to corporate boards of directors.

We should import people who benefit US, with the word "benefit" being decided by the American people, who have every right to decide which classes of people are suitable or not.



Bull*****

Rights exist without government, government exists to protect rights.

Right to hire and contract is not done delegation of constitutional power. What a ridiculous and backwards notion.

You sure love you some boot leather.

Citizens of other countries have no natural right to illegally enter another country
Citizens of any country have a natural right to expel anyone who illegally enters their territory.

Open borders is bad policy and quite illegal under US law. Employment contract law does not trump immigration law. Never has. We have law establishing categories for people to travel here for business, and for people to come live here for business. If we need more, Congress can change law in response to popular needs/will, and has done so countless times over the centuries. Right now, we most definitely do not have a governing majority in support of open borders. In fact, the next election is likely to turn on that issue, against those who advocate in favor of it.

Very authoritarian views you have there, comrade - do whatever you want, however you want, law be damned...
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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Open borders? I travel a lot and have yet to see any countries with open borders. When i go to laredo nuevo i see soldiers with guns and i am checked for citizenship upon return. When i fly to Tulum i show my passport snd have occasionally had my backpack checked.

There is an open border between Texas and Oklahoma.

Biden is following the law about political refugees. Its not working. Trump built a fabulous wall that the invaders either pole vault over, walk around or dig under. Useless and a waste of money.

Maybe we should change our policy and develop a system that works.
whiterock
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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Open borders? I travel a lot and have yet to see any countries with open borders. When i go to laredo nuevo i see soldiers with guns and i am checked for citizenship upon return. When i fly to Tulum i show my passport snd have occasionally had my backpack checked.

There is an open border between Texas and Oklahoma.

Biden is following the law about political refugees. Its not working. Trump built a fabulous wall that the invaders either pole vault over, walk around or dig under. Useless and a waste of money.

Maybe we should change our policy and develop a system that works.

We have somewhere between 3-5m people crossing our borders illegally each year. NOT ONE is being repelled at the border. NOT ONE is being carried from point of apprehension back to the border. ALL of them are being paroled into the US never to be seen again.

THAT IS AN OPEN BORDER.
You can station a customs officials all over the place to waive people thru without inspection if you want to, but it's still an open border.

And you are flat out lying about Biden following law on borders. He is using a fig leaf of prosecutorial discretion to facilitate rather than stop unrestricted border crossings. He's spending taxpayer monies to help transport those illegal aliens within the USA (rather than sending them back to their home countries). He could put up a wall and stop the crossings. He could instruct USBP to take all apprehensions to the nearest POE where migrants could present their documentation (and be refused & sent back into Mexico). But nope. He wants those migrants here, so he's ignoring the law and the will of the American people to do his own thing.

Obtusity is no defense here, buddy. We see right thru you.
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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[url=https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/12/whats-wrong-with-republicans-immigration-claims#comments][/url]
Trumpist Republicans are using the surge of illegal immigration at the southern border of the US, as well as a surge of migrants seeking legal asylum, to threaten a government shutdown and no added funds for Ukraine.
They're using five lies to make their case.

1. They claim Biden doesn't want to stem illegal immigration and has created an "open border".
Rubbish. Since he took office, Biden has consistently asked for additional funding for border control.
Republicans have just as consistently refused. They're voting to cut Customs and Border Protection funding in spending bills and blocking passage of Biden's $106bn national security supplemental that includes border funding.
2. They blame the drug crisis on illegal immigration.
Last Wednesday, at the southern border in Texas, the Republican House speaker, Mike Johnson, claimed that "America is at a breaking point with record levels of illegal immigration. We have lethal drugs that are pouring into our country at record levels."
Rubbish. While large amounts of fentanyl and other deadly drugs have been flowing into the United States from Mexico, 90% arrives through official ports of entry, not via immigrants illegally crossing the border. In fact, research by the Cato Institute found that more than 86% of the people convicted of trafficking fentanyl across the border in 2021 were US citizens.
3. They claim that undocumented immigrants are terrorists.
Johnson also charged that "312 suspects on the terrorist watch list that have been apprehended we have no idea how many terrorists have come into the country and set up terrorism cells across the nation."
Baloney. America's southern border has not been an entry point for terrorists. For almost a half century, no American has been killed or injured in a terrorist attack in the United States that involved someone who crossed the border illegally.

Johnson's number comes from government data showing that from October 2020 to November 2023, 312 migrants out of more than 6.2 million who crossed the southern border during these years matched names on the terrorist watch list.
It's unclear how many were actual matches and whether the FBI considered them national security threats (the watch list includes family relations of terrorist suspects, many of whom are not considered to be involved in terrorist activity).
4. They say undocumented immigrants are stealing American jobs.
Nonsense. Evidence shows immigrants are not taking jobs that American workers want.
And the surge across the border is not increasing unemployment. Far from it: unemployment has been below 4% for roughly two years, far lower than the long-term average rate of 5.71%. It's now at 3.7%.
5. They claim undocumented immigrants are responsible for more crime in the US.
More baloney. In fact, a 2020 study by the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, cited by the Department of Justice, showed that undocumented immigrants have "substantially" lower crime rates than native-born citizens and legal immigrants.
Similarly, a recently published study in the American Economic Journal analyzing official data from 2008 to 2017 on immigration, homicide and victimization surveys found "null effects" on crime from immigration.

Quote:

Trump is now moving into full-throttled neofascism, using the actual rhetoric of Hitler to attack immigrants
Notwithstanding the recent surge in illegal immigration, the US homicide rate has fallen nearly 13% since 2022 the largest decrease on record. Local law enforcement agencies are also reporting drops in violent crime.
Who's really behind these lies?
Since he entered politics, Donald Trump has fanned nativist fears and bigotry.
He's now moving into full-throttled neofascism, using the actual rhetoric of Hitler to attack immigrants charging that undocumented immigrants are "poisoning the blood of our country" and saying they're "like a military invasion. Drugs, criminals, gang members and terrorists are pouring into our country at record levels. We've never seen anything like it. They're taking over our cities."
He promises to use the US military to round up undocumented immigrants and put them into "camps". That demagoguery is being echoed by Trump lackeys to generate fear and put Biden on the defensive.

Does the US need to address the border situation? Yes which Biden is trying to do. But we need to do so in a way that treats migrants as humans, not political pawns.
Trump and his enablers want Americans to forget that almost all of us are the descendants of immigrants who fled persecution, or were brought to the US under duress, or simply sought better lives for themselves and their descendants.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/12/whats-wrong-with-republicans-immigration-claims
cowboycwr
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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:


[url=https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/12/whats-wrong-with-republicans-immigration-claims#comments][/url]
Trumpist Republicans are using the surge of illegal immigration at the southern border of the US, as well as a surge of migrants seeking legal asylum, to threaten a government shutdown and no added funds for Ukraine.
They're using five lies to make their case.

1. They claim Biden doesn't want to stem illegal immigration and has created an "open border".
Rubbish. Since he took office, Biden has consistently asked for additional funding for border control.
Republicans have just as consistently refused. They're voting to cut Customs and Border Protection funding in spending bills and blocking passage of Biden's $106bn national security supplemental that includes border funding.
2. They blame the drug crisis on illegal immigration.
Last Wednesday, at the southern border in Texas, the Republican House speaker, Mike Johnson, claimed that "America is at a breaking point with record levels of illegal immigration. We have lethal drugs that are pouring into our country at record levels."
Rubbish. While large amounts of fentanyl and other deadly drugs have been flowing into the United States from Mexico, 90% arrives through official ports of entry, not via immigrants illegally crossing the border. In fact, research by the Cato Institute found that more than 86% of the people convicted of trafficking fentanyl across the border in 2021 were US citizens.
3. They claim that undocumented immigrants are terrorists.
Johnson also charged that "312 suspects on the terrorist watch list that have been apprehended we have no idea how many terrorists have come into the country and set up terrorism cells across the nation."
Baloney. America's southern border has not been an entry point for terrorists. For almost a half century, no American has been killed or injured in a terrorist attack in the United States that involved someone who crossed the border illegally.

Johnson's number comes from government data showing that from October 2020 to November 2023, 312 migrants out of more than 6.2 million who crossed the southern border during these years matched names on the terrorist watch list.
It's unclear how many were actual matches and whether the FBI considered them national security threats (the watch list includes family relations of terrorist suspects, many of whom are not considered to be involved in terrorist activity).
4. They say undocumented immigrants are stealing American jobs.
Nonsense. Evidence shows immigrants are not taking jobs that American workers want.
And the surge across the border is not increasing unemployment. Far from it: unemployment has been below 4% for roughly two years, far lower than the long-term average rate of 5.71%. It's now at 3.7%.
5. They claim undocumented immigrants are responsible for more crime in the US.
More baloney. In fact, a 2020 study by the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, cited by the Department of Justice, showed that undocumented immigrants have "substantially" lower crime rates than native-born citizens and legal immigrants.
Similarly, a recently published study in the American Economic Journal analyzing official data from 2008 to 2017 on immigration, homicide and victimization surveys found "null effects" on crime from immigration.

Quote:

Trump is now moving into full-throttled neofascism, using the actual rhetoric of Hitler to attack immigrants
Notwithstanding the recent surge in illegal immigration, the US homicide rate has fallen nearly 13% since 2022 the largest decrease on record. Local law enforcement agencies are also reporting drops in violent crime.
Who's really behind these lies?
Since he entered politics, Donald Trump has fanned nativist fears and bigotry.
He's now moving into full-throttled neofascism, using the actual rhetoric of Hitler to attack immigrants charging that undocumented immigrants are "poisoning the blood of our country" and saying they're "like a military invasion. Drugs, criminals, gang members and terrorists are pouring into our country at record levels. We've never seen anything like it. They're taking over our cities."
He promises to use the US military to round up undocumented immigrants and put them into "camps". That demagoguery is being echoed by Trump lackeys to generate fear and put Biden on the defensive.

Does the US need to address the border situation? Yes which Biden is trying to do. But we need to do so in a way that treats migrants as humans, not political pawns.
Trump and his enablers want Americans to forget that almost all of us are the descendants of immigrants who fled persecution, or were brought to the US under duress, or simply sought better lives for themselves and their descendants.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/12/whats-wrong-with-republicans-immigration-claims
Why is it always "trump Republicans"???? Am I unable to be a republican anymore and carry the same beliefs I have always had without supporting Trump?

Oldbear83
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Ever wonder why a Left-tilting Brit publication makes such an effort to attack American conservatives?

And I'm with cowboycwr. Some of those points at least are not 'Trump' issues, they are concerns to all Republicans, and should be a concern to all Americans.

The Fraudian may go suck their collective thumb.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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Maybe it is pointing out that not all republicans support Trump
GrowlTowel
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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Since he entered politics, Donald Trump has fanned nativist fears and bigotry.
He's now moving into full-throttled neofascism, using the actual rhetoric of Hitler to attack immigrants charging that undocumented immigrants are "poisoning the blood of our country" and saying they're "like a military invasion. Drugs, criminals, gang members and terrorists are pouring into our country at record levels. We've never seen anything like it. They're taking over our cities."
He promises to use the US military to round up undocumented immigrants and put them into "camps". That demagoguery is being echoed by Trump lackeys to generate fear and put Biden on the defensive.


Amen! Send the ****ers home!
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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Sieg heils mein fuhrer
Oldbear83
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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

Sieg heils mein fuhrer
Very Hamas of you, LIQR.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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"Poisoning the blood of our country"

"It's true. They're destroying the blood of the country, they're destroying the fabric of our country, and we're going to have to get them out."

"All great cultures of the past perished only because the originally creative race died out from blood poisoning,"

Guess who spoke each phrase;

1. ?

2. ?

3. ?
Oldbear83
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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

"Poisoning the blood of our country"

"It's true. They're destroying the blood of the country, they're destroying the fabric of our country, and we're going to have to get them out."

"All great cultures of the past perished only because the originally creative race died out from blood poisoning,"

Guess who spoke each phrase;

1. ?

2. ?

3. ?
1. Woodrow Wilson

2. Andrew Jackson

3. Biden reading a teleprompter

My point is that whether or not those men made those specific comments, those opinions are very much in line with the character of those men, and if you are trying to go after Trump or someone else on the Republican side, you are ignoring that many Democrats have said as much or worse, and in private many still do.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Limited IQ Redneck in PU
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How do you know what people say in private?

Woodrow Wilson and Andrew Jackson certainly were racist. We can add these two in and ask how many have you voted for? You played a good game but missed on all three. They are all direct quotes.
Oldbear83
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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:

How do you know what people say in private?

Woodrow Wilson and Andrew Jackson certainly were racist. We can add these two in and ask how many have you voted for? You played a good game but missed on all three. They are all direct quotes.
I did not "miss". I made a point.

Democrats=Racists, especially since 1964.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
whiterock
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Limited IQ Redneck in PU said:


[url=https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/12/whats-wrong-with-republicans-immigration-claims#comments][/url]
Trumpist Republicans are using the surge of illegal immigration at the southern border of the US, as well as a surge of migrants seeking legal asylum, to threaten a government shutdown and no added funds for Ukraine.
They're using five lies to make their case.

1. They claim Biden doesn't want to stem illegal immigration and has created an "open border".
Rubbish. Since he took office, Biden has consistently asked for additional funding for border control.
Republicans have just as consistently refused. They're voting to cut Customs and Border Protection funding in spending bills and blocking passage of Biden's $106bn national security supplemental that includes border funding.
2. They blame the drug crisis on illegal immigration.
Last Wednesday, at the southern border in Texas, the Republican House speaker, Mike Johnson, claimed that "America is at a breaking point with record levels of illegal immigration. We have lethal drugs that are pouring into our country at record levels."
Rubbish. While large amounts of fentanyl and other deadly drugs have been flowing into the United States from Mexico, 90% arrives through official ports of entry, not via immigrants illegally crossing the border. In fact, research by the Cato Institute found that more than 86% of the people convicted of trafficking fentanyl across the border in 2021 were US citizens.
3. They claim that undocumented immigrants are terrorists.
Johnson also charged that "312 suspects on the terrorist watch list that have been apprehended we have no idea how many terrorists have come into the country and set up terrorism cells across the nation."
Baloney. America's southern border has not been an entry point for terrorists. For almost a half century, no American has been killed or injured in a terrorist attack in the United States that involved someone who crossed the border illegally.

Johnson's number comes from government data showing that from October 2020 to November 2023, 312 migrants out of more than 6.2 million who crossed the southern border during these years matched names on the terrorist watch list.
It's unclear how many were actual matches and whether the FBI considered them national security threats (the watch list includes family relations of terrorist suspects, many of whom are not considered to be involved in terrorist activity).
4. They say undocumented immigrants are stealing American jobs.
Nonsense. Evidence shows immigrants are not taking jobs that American workers want.
And the surge across the border is not increasing unemployment. Far from it: unemployment has been below 4% for roughly two years, far lower than the long-term average rate of 5.71%. It's now at 3.7%.
5. They claim undocumented immigrants are responsible for more crime in the US.
More baloney. In fact, a 2020 study by the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, cited by the Department of Justice, showed that undocumented immigrants have "substantially" lower crime rates than native-born citizens and legal immigrants.
Similarly, a recently published study in the American Economic Journal analyzing official data from 2008 to 2017 on immigration, homicide and victimization surveys found "null effects" on crime from immigration.

Quote:

Trump is now moving into full-throttled neofascism, using the actual rhetoric of Hitler to attack immigrants
Notwithstanding the recent surge in illegal immigration, the US homicide rate has fallen nearly 13% since 2022 the largest decrease on record. Local law enforcement agencies are also reporting drops in violent crime.
Who's really behind these lies?
Since he entered politics, Donald Trump has fanned nativist fears and bigotry.
He's now moving into full-throttled neofascism, using the actual rhetoric of Hitler to attack immigrants charging that undocumented immigrants are "poisoning the blood of our country" and saying they're "like a military invasion. Drugs, criminals, gang members and terrorists are pouring into our country at record levels. We've never seen anything like it. They're taking over our cities."
He promises to use the US military to round up undocumented immigrants and put them into "camps". That demagoguery is being echoed by Trump lackeys to generate fear and put Biden on the defensive.

Does the US need to address the border situation? Yes which Biden is trying to do. But we need to do so in a way that treats migrants as humans, not political pawns.
Trump and his enablers want Americans to forget that almost all of us are the descendants of immigrants who fled persecution, or were brought to the US under duress, or simply sought better lives for themselves and their descendants.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/12/whats-wrong-with-republicans-immigration-claims
what a disingenuous series of arguments.

1) The wave of illegal immigration is not due to lack of funding (and the funding proposed was aimed at HANDLING the flow, not stopping it. Trump stopped the surge on his watch with aggressive enforcement, good policies like "wait in Mexico," and building border wall.

2) Really bad understanding of operational situation. The illegal crossings suck off big percentages of USBP manpower to simply transport detainees from the field, to the detention centers, to courts, to drop off point, etc.... They are a distraction that allows greater percentages of product to cross, but at POEs and not. For sure, the human smuggling operations are very financially lucrative for the cartels, but they'd run them at breatk-even if they had to just to keep tying up USBP resources.

3) Talk about inane. 16 Saudi terrorists, illegal aliens who overstayed or otherwise voided the validity of their visas, conducted a single operation that destroyed, in a single day, billions of dollars of wealth, jolting the US economy, and sending the USA off to war. The numbers of terrorists crossing the border is a complete unknown - we don't know anything about the ones we don't catch (which are a number comparable to the ones we do). And I can tell you first hand there is intelligence in the file which says our adversaries have indeed sent operatives across the border to build sleeper cells.....decades ago. I tis completely unserious to suggest that there is no elevated risk to national security from 5m people crossing our border illegally, when we know, for a fact, that people from places and groups hostile to us are tens of thousands of the total flow.

4) They steal jobs from Americans by doing them for less money, typically having greatest impact on the lowest ends of the pay scale.

5) Stupefying baloney. Every crime committed by an illegal is a crime which would not have occurred had they not been here. And not all studies show lower rates of crime among illegals. ...
whiterock
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