Booray said:

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ScottS said:

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Booray said:

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whiterock said:

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Booray said:

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Thought conservatives wanted to apply the law as written. Characterize it as condescendingly as you want, when those people stepped on the bus they were legally in this country.

---

nope.. doesnt matter what they do in this country, they are not here legally until they are..

I have family friends dealing with this right now. The husband and 3 kids are all legal US citizens by birth. The wife is a dreamer who was brought here illegally at age 5. Now, 26 yr old and still not legal.

Being here doesnt make you legal.

---

Different from the situaiton you describe. When I say that the people shipped to Martha's Vineyard are here legally, I am saying that they followed the laws of the United States in seeking asylum. That gives them a legal right to remain int he country until their asylum request is adjudicated.

You might disagree with the law, but that is the law.

---

Fine, so Florida doesn't have the right to help them get to Mass to wait for their hearings?

Do you believe non-border states should be allowed to determine immigration laws? If they are, then there should be no issue taking g a small amount until hearings. After all asylum is not planned, so Florida has no idea how many will show up and when.

---

Florida can do what it wants to help people awaiting asylum heaqrings. If Florida lies to people, takes them in place where they have no shot at work, to prove a political point, then Florida is a jerk.

The federal government sets immigration policy. It has to be that way.

---

Why do they have no shot at work? Are you saying Martha's Vineyard is racist? That is illegal. Will Garland investigate why these asylum seekers are denied work in Martha's Vineyard?


Why do you assume Florida is easy to find work? This is a National issue, the Feds are making the policy. All the States should help.

---

Because Martha's Vineyard's economy is wholly seasonal.

---

Florida is not a seasonal place. Yeah. 50 people can't find a job in the Martha Vineyard area???? 50. We are talking less than a football team. Yet the economy can't handle it.

---

No, there are not 50 extra jobs in Martha's Vineyard in the off season. The population is about 10% of what it is in-season. Most businesses just close.

It is nothing at all like "off season" Florida. These facts are inconvenient for you, I know.

---

No, it is inconvenient for you. You are comparing one city to a State. The State of Mass is not equipped to handle 50 people?

As for Florida, we have a 30% seasonal factor (smowbirds). It is worse in Geb/March for Spring Training. That is pretty extreme, for those of us that actually deal with seasonality.

A comparison to Martha's Vineyard would be Key Biscayne. When illegals show up, they don't stay there. Do you have any experience with what you are talking about?

---

Your Key Biscayne analogy proves my point, not yours. They do not willingly go where there is no work. Here they were apparently tricked into going where there is no work.

Also, I don't think Florida shrinks by 30% at any point in the year. Martha's Vineyard shrinks by 90% starting about right now.

And your suggestion is, hey just get a job somewhere else in Massachusetts. Never mind that you don't have any transport. Not very realistic.

---

we have about 11m unfilled jobs in the USA at the moment.
nowhere near half of those jobs are unskilled labor positions appropriate for the 5m or so largely illiterate illegal immigrants we will import this year.

Sure, macroeconomics is macroeconomics. adding unskilled labor to the bottom will facilitate trickle-up dynamics that will, over time, ease the overall crunch. But nothing would do more to ease the shortage of skilled and semi-skiled labor than by increasing LEGAL immigration of the kinds of immigrants we need, 4m or so of whom actually are already approved and standing in line waiting for quota to open.

But that's too hard.
It's waaaay easier to just let them walk across the border.
Don't have to even pass a law to change the immigration quota.
Just let them in the back door.
We'll never catch enough to matter.
We'll get all the immigrants we need, and more.
And the voters won't be able to stop us.

Oh. And all those illegal unskilled laborers will depress wages for the lowest wage earners.
The huddled masses already here will no doubt rejoice at the central role they will play in fighting wage inflation.

---

We have a screwed up immigration system. As long as Republicans insist on no amnesty and no path to legal status, the chance of rational reform are non-existent.

To get what you want ( much of which I agree with) there has to be compromise.

---

No path? There is a path. You apply for citizenship. Its been done for years.

---

You can't apply for citizneship if your parents brought you to this country when you were two and if they crossed illegally. Even if it si the only country you ever lived in and you have been an A+ citizen.

The parents cannot apply for citizneship either, even if they have been productive members of society.

That is who I am talking about.

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

J.R. said:

---

I'd like to know how many of you boys who want to build a wall ect (I'm for real immigration reform ...play by the rules, not a bull rush). have "Beaners" doing the yard, pool, housekeeping? Fess up, boys. If you have , said "Beaners" , do you 1099 them....Seriously doubt it.

---

None. I currently have 16 employees and all are legal citizens. Even had one from Kuala Lumpur for a little while, legal immigrant. So my common sense desire for a physical barrier is legitimate now, right?

---

do you eat Driscol berries? Who do you think picked those?

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

J.R. said:

---

I'd like to know how many of you boys who want to build a wall ect (I'm for real immigration reform ...play by the rules, not a bull rush). have "Beaners" doing the yard, pool, housekeeping? Fess up, boys. If you have , said "Beaners" , do you 1099 them....Seriously doubt it.

---

None. I currently have 16 employees and all are legal citizens. Even had one from Kuala Lumpur for a little while, legal immigrant. So my common sense desire for a physical barrier is legitimate now, right?

---

do you eat Driscol berries? Who do you think picked those?

---

He Hate Me said:

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Booray said:

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ScottS said:

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Booray said:

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whiterock said:

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Booray said:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Thought conservatives wanted to apply the law as written. Characterize it as condescendingly as you want, when those people stepped on the bus they were legally in this country.

---

nope.. doesnt matter what they do in this country, they are not here legally until they are..

I have family friends dealing with this right now. The husband and 3 kids are all legal US citizens by birth. The wife is a dreamer who was brought here illegally at age 5. Now, 26 yr old and still not legal.

Being here doesnt make you legal.

---

Different from the situaiton you describe. When I say that the people shipped to Martha's Vineyard are here legally, I am saying that they followed the laws of the United States in seeking asylum. That gives them a legal right to remain int he country until their asylum request is adjudicated.

You might disagree with the law, but that is the law.

---

Fine, so Florida doesn't have the right to help them get to Mass to wait for their hearings?

Do you believe non-border states should be allowed to determine immigration laws? If they are, then there should be no issue taking g a small amount until hearings. After all asylum is not planned, so Florida has no idea how many will show up and when.

---

Florida can do what it wants to help people awaiting asylum heaqrings. If Florida lies to people, takes them in place where they have no shot at work, to prove a political point, then Florida is a jerk.

The federal government sets immigration policy. It has to be that way.

---

Why do they have no shot at work? Are you saying Martha's Vineyard is racist? That is illegal. Will Garland investigate why these asylum seekers are denied work in Martha's Vineyard?


Why do you assume Florida is easy to find work? This is a National issue, the Feds are making the policy. All the States should help.

---

Because Martha's Vineyard's economy is wholly seasonal.

---

Florida is not a seasonal place. Yeah. 50 people can't find a job in the Martha Vineyard area???? 50. We are talking less than a football team. Yet the economy can't handle it.

---

No, there are not 50 extra jobs in Martha's Vineyard in the off season. The population is about 10% of what it is in-season. Most businesses just close.

It is nothing at all like "off season" Florida. These facts are inconvenient for you, I know.

---

No, it is inconvenient for you. You are comparing one city to a State. The State of Mass is not equipped to handle 50 people?

As for Florida, we have a 30% seasonal factor (smowbirds). It is worse in Geb/March for Spring Training. That is pretty extreme, for those of us that actually deal with seasonality.

A comparison to Martha's Vineyard would be Key Biscayne. When illegals show up, they don't stay there. Do you have any experience with what you are talking about?

---

Your Key Biscayne analogy proves my point, not yours. They do not willingly go where there is no work. Here they were apparently tricked into going where there is no work.

Also, I don't think Florida shrinks by 30% at any point in the year. Martha's Vineyard shrinks by 90% starting about right now.

And your suggestion is, hey just get a job somewhere else in Massachusetts. Never mind that you don't have any transport. Not very realistic.

---

we have about 11m unfilled jobs in the USA at the moment.
nowhere near half of those jobs are unskilled labor positions appropriate for the 5m or so largely illiterate illegal immigrants we will import this year.

Sure, macroeconomics is macroeconomics. adding unskilled labor to the bottom will facilitate trickle-up dynamics that will, over time, ease the overall crunch. But nothing would do more to ease the shortage of skilled and semi-skiled labor than by increasing LEGAL immigration of the kinds of immigrants we need, 4m or so of whom actually are already approved and standing in line waiting for quota to open.

But that's too hard.
It's waaaay easier to just let them walk across the border.
Don't have to even pass a law to change the immigration quota.
Just let them in the back door.
We'll never catch enough to matter.
We'll get all the immigrants we need, and more.
And the voters won't be able to stop us.

Oh. And all those illegal unskilled laborers will depress wages for the lowest wage earners.
The huddled masses already here will no doubt rejoice at the central role they will play in fighting wage inflation.

---

We have a screwed up immigration system. As long as Republicans insist on no amnesty and no path to legal status, the chance of rational reform are non-existent.

To get what you want ( much of which I agree with) there has to be compromise.

---

No path? There is a path. You apply for citizenship. Its been done for years.

---

You can't apply for citizneship if your parents brought you to this country when you were two and if they crossed illegally. Even if it si the only country you ever lived in and you have been an A+ citizen.

The parents cannot apply for citizneship either, even if they have been productive members of society.

That is who I am talking about.

---

You cannot be an A+ citizen if you have never been a citizen. The fault for the children caught in the middle lies squarely on the shoulders of the parents who brought them here and not on this great nation who educated them and likely provided for them in other ways.

What I am not understanding is this cheapening of American citizenship and the selling out of our birthright and inheritance to people whose first act is to violate and flagrantly disregard our immigration laws. I thought you were in favor of the rule of law; yet here you are championing law breakers because they are sympathetic to you since their parents put them in a bad position.

Your DACA children will likely become citizens through marriage. It may take them a while but they actually do have a path to citizenship if they do not marry another person who is not authorized to be here.

---

He Hate Me said:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

---

we have about 11m unfilled jobs in the USA at the moment.
nowhere near half of those jobs are unskilled labor positions appropriate for the 5m or so largely illiterate illegal immigrants we will import this year.

Sure, macroeconomics is macroeconomics. adding unskilled labor to the bottom will facilitate trickle-up dynamics that will, over time, ease the overall crunch. But nothing would do more to ease the shortage of skilled and semi-skiled labor than by increasing LEGAL immigration of the kinds of immigrants we need, 4m or so of whom actually are already approved and standing in line waiting for quota to open.

But that's too hard.
It's waaaay easier to just let them walk across the border.
Don't have to even pass a law to change the immigration quota.
Just let them in the back door.
We'll never catch enough to matter.
We'll get all the immigrants we need, and more.
And the voters won't be able to stop us.

Oh. And all those illegal unskilled laborers will depress wages for the lowest wage earners.
The huddled masses already here will no doubt rejoice at the central role they will play in fighting wage inflation.

---

We have a screwed up immigration system. As long as Republicans insist on no amnesty and no path to legal status, the chance of rational reform are non-existent.

To get what you want ( much of which I agree with) there has to be compromise.

---

No path? There is a path. You apply for citizenship. Its been done for years.

---

You can't apply for citizneship if your parents brought you to this country when you were two and if they crossed illegally. Even if it si the only country you ever lived in and you have been an A+ citizen.

The parents cannot apply for citizneship either, even if they have been productive members of society.

That is who I am talking about.

---

You cannot be an A+ citizen if you have never been a citizen. The fault for the children caught in the middle lies squarely on the shoulders of the parents who brought them here and not on this great nation who educated them and likely provided for them in other ways.

What I am not understanding is this cheapening of American citizenship and the selling out of our birthright and inheritance to people whose first act is to violate and flagrantly disregard our immigration laws. I thought you were in favor of the rule of law; yet here you are championing law breakers because they are sympathetic to you since their parents put them in a bad position.

Your DACA children will likely become citizens through marriage. It may take them a while but they actually do have a path to citizenship if they do not marry another person who is not authorized to be here.

---

And marriage by citizenship is not quite as easy as you make it sound, abvoe and beyond finding your soulmate:

---

It is pretty easy.

I-485 + I-130 = Conditional residence for the alien; wait two years;

I-751, remove conditions; wait one year, pay taxes and fines, don't be a terrible human being;

N-400, study a little bit for your citizenship interview, speak, read, and write English reasonably well, answer 6 out of 10 basic civics questions correctly

Attend ceremony, take oath of allegiance to the United States.

I suppose you have never done this. I have. I get my information from experience not from "immi-help." If you enter into a bona fide marriage, then the process is not difficult.

---

whiterock said:

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He Hate Me said:

---

Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

---

we have about 11m unfilled jobs in the USA at the moment.
nowhere near half of those jobs are unskilled labor positions appropriate for the 5m or so largely illiterate illegal immigrants we will import this year.

Sure, macroeconomics is macroeconomics. adding unskilled labor to the bottom will facilitate trickle-up dynamics that will, over time, ease the overall crunch. But nothing would do more to ease the shortage of skilled and semi-skiled labor than by increasing LEGAL immigration of the kinds of immigrants we need, 4m or so of whom actually are already approved and standing in line waiting for quota to open.

But that's too hard.
It's waaaay easier to just let them walk across the border.
Don't have to even pass a law to change the immigration quota.
Just let them in the back door.
We'll never catch enough to matter.
We'll get all the immigrants we need, and more.
And the voters won't be able to stop us.

Oh. And all those illegal unskilled laborers will depress wages for the lowest wage earners.
The huddled masses already here will no doubt rejoice at the central role they will play in fighting wage inflation.

---

We have a screwed up immigration system. As long as Republicans insist on no amnesty and no path to legal status, the chance of rational reform are non-existent.

To get what you want ( much of which I agree with) there has to be compromise.

---

No path? There is a path. You apply for citizenship. Its been done for years.

---

You can't apply for citizneship if your parents brought you to this country when you were two and if they crossed illegally. Even if it si the only country you ever lived in and you have been an A+ citizen.

The parents cannot apply for citizneship either, even if they have been productive members of society.

That is who I am talking about.

---

You cannot be an A+ citizen if you have never been a citizen. The fault for the children caught in the middle lies squarely on the shoulders of the parents who brought them here and not on this great nation who educated them and likely provided for them in other ways.

What I am not understanding is this cheapening of American citizenship and the selling out of our birthright and inheritance to people whose first act is to violate and flagrantly disregard our immigration laws. I thought you were in favor of the rule of law; yet here you are championing law breakers because they are sympathetic to you since their parents put them in a bad position.

Your DACA children will likely become citizens through marriage. It may take them a while but they actually do have a path to citizenship if they do not marry another person who is not authorized to be here.

---

And marriage by citizenship is not quite as easy as you make it sound, abvoe and beyond finding your soulmate:

---

It is pretty easy.

I-485 + I-130 = Conditional residence for the alien; wait two years;

I-751, remove conditions; wait one year, pay taxes and fines, don't be a terrible human being;

N-400, study a little bit for your citizenship interview, speak, read, and write English reasonably well, answer 6 out of 10 basic civics questions correctly

Attend ceremony, take oath of allegiance to the United States.

I suppose you have never done this. I have. I get my information from experience not from "immi-help." If you enter into a bona fide marriage, then the process is not difficult.

---

K visas have always been easier, supposed to be easier. An American Citizen is involved. We do not wish to infringe on his/her rights to live with the love of their life. So we change the burden from the rest of non-immigrant visas, where to qualify applicants must demonstrate compelling evidence that they are NOT intending immigrants. For the K-visa, the intent is to get them here to have the wedding, then to allow them to adjust status to obtain a green card.

For everybody else, the non-immigrant visa is quite a mountain to climb.

---

J.R. said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

J.R. said:

---

I'd like to know how many of you boys who want to build a wall ect (I'm for real immigration reform ...play by the rules, not a bull rush). have "Beaners" doing the yard, pool, housekeeping? Fess up, boys. If you have , said "Beaners" , do you 1099 them....Seriously doubt it.

---

None. I currently have 16 employees and all are legal citizens. Even had one from Kuala Lumpur for a little while, legal immigrant. So my common sense desire for a physical barrier is legitimate now, right?

---

do you eat Driscol berries? Who do you think picked those?

---

He Hate Me said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Did the immigrants give consent to be taken off the island to a military base?

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That is different because DeSantis....

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Booray said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Booray said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Booray said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Booray said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Booray said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Booray said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Booray said:

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Wangchung said:

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Porteroso said:

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Canada2017 said:

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Porteroso said:

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I don't know about dropping them off at Kamela's front door, that's purely politics, but I love the idea that they are getting access to all this welcome and aid all across the US.

---

How many additional illegals should we welcome and provide aid ?

2 million

5 million

10 million

20 million


Unlimited ?

---

Once again, talking about illegals, and legal migrants, are 2 different conversations. I think no state will be bussing illegals up North, they'd get into some serious legal trouble, aiding illegals.

So these are legal migrants. We do not take in unlimited, we theoretically have a plan for these migrants who come to the US the right way, with the right paperwork, backgrounds (maybe) checked.

If you're aware of all this, I don't understand your point.

edit: You guys are howling like hyenas but assuming I'm right and these aren't illegals, you're making leftist points for the left. You see brown people and immediately jump to "deport the illegals." That's not a good look........

As I said, Abbott is doing these people a huge favor. Desantis I'm not sure, if he just keeps flying them to resorts, that doesn't seem like doing them a favor. But bussing to large sanctuary cities with the social services and available jobs to give these people a great chance at a new life is just an amazing opportunity. Why not frame it as that? Why do you guys have to drone on and on about how much you hate
illegals?

---

Funny, you want to pretend illegals are suddenly legal simply because Biden asks them to super duper pinky promise to appear at a court date later. What we see here is as plain as your deflection; democrats wanted to do exactly what you're doing here and play the race card every time anyone sought to secure the border. Democrats pronounced to the world that illegals were welcome in their sanctuary cities (why would legal immigrants need sanctuary?) Now we see you democrats losing your minds that brown people are showing up where they were invited and it's back to the race card. Oh right, YOU claim you're happy and that, despite their own protestations by the cities themselves, these sanctuary cities have a plan to serve these illegals, right? Nevermind what they're saying about not having space or resources, trust you on this, right? Hahaha, hey, we are glad at least one leftist likes this, because forcing democrats to reveal their hypocrisy in such a public fashion is greatness to the rest of us.

---

Thought conservatives wanted to apply the law as written. Characterize it as condescendingly as you want, when those people stepped on the bus they were legally in this country.

---

nope.. doesnt matter what they do in this country, they are not here legally until they are..

I have family friends dealing with this right now. The husband and 3 kids are all legal US citizens by birth. The wife is a dreamer who was brought here illegally at age 5. Now, 26 yr old and still not legal.

Being here doesnt make you legal.

---

Different from the situaiton you describe. When I say that the people shipped to Martha's Vineyard are here legally, I am saying that they followed the laws of the United States in seeking asylum. That gives them a legal right to remain int he country until their asylum request is adjudicated.

You might disagree with the law, but that is the law.

---

Fine, so Florida doesn't have the right to help them get to Mass to wait for their hearings?

Do you believe non-border states should be allowed to determine immigration laws? If they are, then there should be no issue taking g a small amount until hearings. After all asylum is not planned, so Florida has no idea how many will show up and when.

---

Florida can do what it wants to help people awaiting asylum heaqrings. If Florida lies to people, takes them in place where they have no shot at work, to prove a political point, then Florida is a jerk.

The federal government sets immigration policy. It has to be that way.

---

Why do they have no shot at work? Are you saying Martha's Vineyard is racist? That is illegal. Will Garland investigate why these asylum seekers are denied work in Martha's Vineyard?


Why do you assume Florida is easy to find work? This is a National issue, the Feds are making the policy. All the States should help.

---

Because Martha's Vineyard's economy is wholly seasonal.

---

Florida is not a seasonal place. Yeah. 50 people can't find a job in the Martha Vineyard area???? 50. We are talking less than a football team. Yet the economy can't handle it.

---

No, there are not 50 extra jobs in Martha's Vineyard in the off season. The population is about 10% of what it is in-season. Most businesses just close.

It is nothing at all like "off season" Florida. These facts are inconvenient for you, I know.

---

No, it is inconvenient for you. You are comparing one city to a State. The State of Mass is not equipped to handle 50 people?

As for Florida, we have a 30% seasonal factor (smowbirds). It is worse in Geb/March for Spring Training. That is pretty extreme, for those of us that actually deal with seasonality.

A comparison to Martha's Vineyard would be Key Biscayne. When illegals show up, they don't stay there. Do you have any experience with what you are talking about?

---

Here they were apparently tricked into going where there is no work.

---

I get that asylum seekers have legal status while their claim is being adjudicated, all Venezuelan I assume.
Why do you say they're tricked?

---

Migrants who flew to Martha's Vineyard told NPR they crossed into Texas and were flown from San Antonio to Florida.

Sarang Sekhavet of the Massachusetts Immigration Reform Advocacy Coalition (MIRA) told WLRN some said they were told they were being taken to get jobs. "I'd say tricked into believing they were being flown to Massachusetts to be given jobs is a better way to put it," Sekhavet said.

https://news.wfsu.org/state-news/2022-09-16/venezuelan-migrant-advocates-blast-gov-desantis-cruel-political-stunt-he-calls-complaints-a-fraud

There is a lot more out there about how the Venezualans were induced to get on the plane.

---

whiterock said:

---

"Border Town Puts Up 'Martha's Vineyard' Sign In Hopes Government Will Come Pick Up All Their Illegal Immigrants "

https://babylonbee.com/news/border-town-puts-up-marthas-vineyard-sign-so-immigrants-will-know-theyre-not-welcome-there

---

whiterock said:

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Booray said:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Your Key Biscayne analogy proves my point, not yours. They do not willingly go where there is no work. Here they were apparently tricked into going where there is no work.

Also, I don't think Florida shrinks by 30% at any point in the year. Martha's Vineyard shrinks by 90% starting about right now.

And your suggestion is, hey just get a job somewhere else in Massachusetts. Never mind that you don't have any transport. Not very realistic.

---

we have about 11m unfilled jobs in the USA at the moment.
nowhere near half of those jobs are unskilled labor positions appropriate for the 5m or so largely illiterate illegal immigrants we will import this year.

Sure, macroeconomics is macroeconomics. adding unskilled labor to the bottom will facilitate trickle-up dynamics that will, over time, ease the overall crunch. But nothing would do more to ease the shortage of skilled and semi-skiled labor than by increasing LEGAL immigration of the kinds of immigrants we need, 4m or so of whom actually are already approved and standing in line waiting for quota to open.

But that's too hard.
It's waaaay easier to just let them walk across the border.
Don't have to even pass a law to change the immigration quota.
Just let them in the back door.
We'll never catch enough to matter.
We'll get all the immigrants we need, and more.
And the voters won't be able to stop us.

Oh. And all those illegal unskilled laborers will depress wages for the lowest wage earners.
The huddled masses already here will no doubt rejoice at the central role they will play in fighting wage inflation.

---

We have a screwed up immigration system. As long as Republicans insist on no amnesty and no path to legal status, the chance of rational reform are non-existent.

To get what you want ( much of which I agree with) there has to be compromise.

---

No path? There is a path. You apply for citizenship. Its been done for years.

---

You can't apply for citizneship if your parents brought you to this country when you were two and if they crossed illegally. Even if it si the only country you ever lived in and you have been an A+ citizen.

The parents cannot apply for citizneship either, even if they have been productive members of society.

That is who I am talking about.

---

No one who comes here illegally should be rewarded with a pathway to citizenship. The status of their minor children is negotiable.

---

D. C. Bear said:

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whiterock said:

---

Booray said:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Your Key Biscayne analogy proves my point, not yours. They do not willingly go where there is no work. Here they were apparently tricked into going where there is no work.

Also, I don't think Florida shrinks by 30% at any point in the year. Martha's Vineyard shrinks by 90% starting about right now.

And your suggestion is, hey just get a job somewhere else in Massachusetts. Never mind that you don't have any transport. Not very realistic.

---

we have about 11m unfilled jobs in the USA at the moment.
nowhere near half of those jobs are unskilled labor positions appropriate for the 5m or so largely illiterate illegal immigrants we will import this year.

Sure, macroeconomics is macroeconomics. adding unskilled labor to the bottom will facilitate trickle-up dynamics that will, over time, ease the overall crunch. But nothing would do more to ease the shortage of skilled and semi-skiled labor than by increasing LEGAL immigration of the kinds of immigrants we need, 4m or so of whom actually are already approved and standing in line waiting for quota to open.

But that's too hard.
It's waaaay easier to just let them walk across the border.
Don't have to even pass a law to change the immigration quota.
Just let them in the back door.
We'll never catch enough to matter.
We'll get all the immigrants we need, and more.
And the voters won't be able to stop us.

Oh. And all those illegal unskilled laborers will depress wages for the lowest wage earners.
The huddled masses already here will no doubt rejoice at the central role they will play in fighting wage inflation.

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We have a screwed up immigration system. As long as Republicans insist on no amnesty and no path to legal status, the chance of rational reform are non-existent.

To get what you want ( much of which I agree with) there has to be compromise.

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No path? There is a path. You apply for citizenship. Its been done for years.

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You can't apply for citizneship if your parents brought you to this country when you were two and if they crossed illegally. Even if it si the only country you ever lived in and you have been an A+ citizen.

The parents cannot apply for citizneship either, even if they have been productive members of society.

That is who I am talking about.

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No one who comes here illegally should be rewarded with a pathway to citizenship. The status of their minor children is negotiable.

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Why not sell them one?

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whiterock said:

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Some countries do this. We should too

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Canada2017 said:

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J.R. said:

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Wangchung said:

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J.R. said:

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I'd like to know how many of you boys who want to build a wall ect (I'm for real immigration reform ...play by the rules, not a bull rush). have "Beaners" doing the yard, pool, housekeeping? Fess up, boys. If you have , said "Beaners" , do you 1099 them....Seriously doubt it.

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None. I currently have 16 employees and all are legal citizens. Even had one from Kuala Lumpur for a little while, legal immigrant. So my common sense desire for a physical barrier is legitimate now, right?

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do you eat Driscol berries? Who do you think picked those?

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I don't know who picks them.......do you ?

Are Driscol berries so critical to our lives that they are worth the billions spent on caring for these millions of illegals ?

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He Hate Me said:

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Booray said:

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He Hate Me said:

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Booray said:

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ScottS said:

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Booray said:

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whiterock said:

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Thought conservatives wanted to apply the law as written. Characterize it as condescendingly as you want, when those people stepped on the bus they were legally in this country.

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nope.. doesnt matter what they do in this country, they are not here legally until they are..

I have family friends dealing with this right now. The husband and 3 kids are all legal US citizens by birth. The wife is a dreamer who was brought here illegally at age 5. Now, 26 yr old and still not legal.

Being here doesnt make you legal.

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Different from the situaiton you describe. When I say that the people shipped to Martha's Vineyard are here legally, I am saying that they followed the laws of the United States in seeking asylum. That gives them a legal right to remain int he country until their asylum request is adjudicated.

You might disagree with the law, but that is the law.

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Fine, so Florida doesn't have the right to help them get to Mass to wait for their hearings?

Do you believe non-border states should be allowed to determine immigration laws? If they are, then there should be no issue taking g a small amount until hearings. After all asylum is not planned, so Florida has no idea how many will show up and when.

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Florida can do what it wants to help people awaiting asylum heaqrings. If Florida lies to people, takes them in place where they have no shot at work, to prove a political point, then Florida is a jerk.

The federal government sets immigration policy. It has to be that way.

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Why do they have no shot at work? Are you saying Martha's Vineyard is racist? That is illegal. Will Garland investigate why these asylum seekers are denied work in Martha's Vineyard?


Why do you assume Florida is easy to find work? This is a National issue, the Feds are making the policy. All the States should help.

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Because Martha's Vineyard's economy is wholly seasonal.

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Florida is not a seasonal place. Yeah. 50 people can't find a job in the Martha Vineyard area???? 50. We are talking less than a football team. Yet the economy can't handle it.

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No, there are not 50 extra jobs in Martha's Vineyard in the off season. The population is about 10% of what it is in-season. Most businesses just close.

It is nothing at all like "off season" Florida. These facts are inconvenient for you, I know.

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No, it is inconvenient for you. You are comparing one city to a State. The State of Mass is not equipped to handle 50 people?

As for Florida, we have a 30% seasonal factor (smowbirds). It is worse in Geb/March for Spring Training. That is pretty extreme, for those of us that actually deal with seasonality.

A comparison to Martha's Vineyard would be Key Biscayne. When illegals show up, they don't stay there. Do you have any experience with what you are talking about?

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Your Key Biscayne analogy proves my point, not yours. They do not willingly go where there is no work. Here they were apparently tricked into going where there is no work.

Also, I don't think Florida shrinks by 30% at any point in the year. Martha's Vineyard shrinks by 90% starting about right now.

And your suggestion is, hey just get a job somewhere else in Massachusetts. Never mind that you don't have any transport. Not very realistic.

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we have about 11m unfilled jobs in the USA at the moment.
nowhere near half of those jobs are unskilled labor positions appropriate for the 5m or so largely illiterate illegal immigrants we will import this year.

Sure, macroeconomics is macroeconomics. adding unskilled labor to the bottom will facilitate trickle-up dynamics that will, over time, ease the overall crunch. But nothing would do more to ease the shortage of skilled and semi-skiled labor than by increasing LEGAL immigration of the kinds of immigrants we need, 4m or so of whom actually are already approved and standing in line waiting for quota to open.

But that's too hard.
It's waaaay easier to just let them walk across the border.
Don't have to even pass a law to change the immigration quota.
Just let them in the back door.
We'll never catch enough to matter.
We'll get all the immigrants we need, and more.
And the voters won't be able to stop us.

Oh. And all those illegal unskilled laborers will depress wages for the lowest wage earners.
The huddled masses already here will no doubt rejoice at the central role they will play in fighting wage inflation.

---

We have a screwed up immigration system. As long as Republicans insist on no amnesty and no path to legal status, the chance of rational reform are non-existent.

To get what you want ( much of which I agree with) there has to be compromise.

---

No path? There is a path. You apply for citizenship. Its been done for years.

---

You can't apply for citizneship if your parents brought you to this country when you were two and if they crossed illegally. Even if it si the only country you ever lived in and you have been an A+ citizen.

The parents cannot apply for citizneship either, even if they have been productive members of society.

That is who I am talking about.

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You cannot be an A+ citizen if you have never been a citizen. The fault for the children caught in the middle lies squarely on the shoulders of the parents who brought them here and not on this great nation who educated them and likely provided for them in other ways.

What I am not understanding is this cheapening of American citizenship and the selling out of our birthright and inheritance to people whose first act is to violate and flagrantly disregard our immigration laws. I thought you were in favor of the rule of law; yet here you are championing law breakers because they are sympathetic to you since their parents put them in a bad position.

Your DACA children will likely become citizens through marriage. It may take them a while but they actually do have a path to citizenship if they do not marry another person who is not authorized to be here.

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And marriage by citizenship is not quite as easy as you make it sound, abvoe and beyond finding your soulmate:

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It is pretty easy.

I-485 + I-130 = Conditional residence for the alien; wait two years;

I-751, remove conditions; wait one year, pay taxes and fines, don't be a terrible human being;

N-400, study a little bit for your citizenship interview, speak, read, and write English reasonably well, answer 6 out of 10 basic civics questions correctly

Attend ceremony, take oath of allegiance to the United States.

I suppose you have never done this. I have. I get my information from experience not from "immi-help." If you enter into a bona fide marriage, then the process is not difficult.

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J.R. said:

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Canada2017 said:

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J.R. said:

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Wangchung said:

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J.R. said:

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I'd like to know how many of you boys who want to build a wall ect (I'm for real immigration reform ...play by the rules, not a bull rush). have "Beaners" doing the yard, pool, housekeeping? Fess up, boys. If you have , said "Beaners" , do you 1099 them....Seriously doubt it.

---

None. I currently have 16 employees and all are legal citizens. Even had one from Kuala Lumpur for a little while, legal immigrant. So my common sense desire for a physical barrier is legitimate now, right?

---

do you eat Driscol berries? Who do you think picked those?

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I don't know who picks them.......do you ?

Are Driscol berries so critical to our lives that they are worth the billions spent on caring for these millions of illegals ?

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Don't see any Whiteys or Black folk working agriculture.

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Wangchung said:

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Activists suing DeSantis over Martha's Vineyard flights received over $1.3M from George Soros network

https://www.yahoo.com/news/activists-suing-desantis-over-martha-191150505.html

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Wangchung said:

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Activists suing DeSantis over Martha's Vineyard flights received over $1.3M from George Soros network

https://www.yahoo.com/news/activists-suing-desantis-over-martha-191150505.html

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RMF5630 said:

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Booray said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Booray said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Booray said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Booray said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Booray said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Booray said:

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Wangchung said:

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Porteroso said:

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Canada2017 said:

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Porteroso said:

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I don't know about dropping them off at Kamela's front door, that's purely politics, but I love the idea that they are getting access to all this welcome and aid all across the US.

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How many additional illegals should we welcome and provide aid ?

2 million

5 million

10 million

20 million


Unlimited ?

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Once again, talking about illegals, and legal migrants, are 2 different conversations. I think no state will be bussing illegals up North, they'd get into some serious legal trouble, aiding illegals.

So these are legal migrants. We do not take in unlimited, we theoretically have a plan for these migrants who come to the US the right way, with the right paperwork, backgrounds (maybe) checked.

If you're aware of all this, I don't understand your point.

edit: You guys are howling like hyenas but assuming I'm right and these aren't illegals, you're making leftist points for the left. You see brown people and immediately jump to "deport the illegals." That's not a good look........

As I said, Abbott is doing these people a huge favor. Desantis I'm not sure, if he just keeps flying them to resorts, that doesn't seem like doing them a favor. But bussing to large sanctuary cities with the social services and available jobs to give these people a great chance at a new life is just an amazing opportunity. Why not frame it as that? Why do you guys have to drone on and on about how much you hate
illegals?

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Funny, you want to pretend illegals are suddenly legal simply because Biden asks them to super duper pinky promise to appear at a court date later. What we see here is as plain as your deflection; democrats wanted to do exactly what you're doing here and play the race card every time anyone sought to secure the border. Democrats pronounced to the world that illegals were welcome in their sanctuary cities (why would legal immigrants need sanctuary?) Now we see you democrats losing your minds that brown people are showing up where they were invited and it's back to the race card. Oh right, YOU claim you're happy and that, despite their own protestations by the cities themselves, these sanctuary cities have a plan to serve these illegals, right? Nevermind what they're saying about not having space or resources, trust you on this, right? Hahaha, hey, we are glad at least one leftist likes this, because forcing democrats to reveal their hypocrisy in such a public fashion is greatness to the rest of us.

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Thought conservatives wanted to apply the law as written. Characterize it as condescendingly as you want, when those people stepped on the bus they were legally in this country.

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nope.. doesnt matter what they do in this country, they are not here legally until they are..

I have family friends dealing with this right now. The husband and 3 kids are all legal US citizens by birth. The wife is a dreamer who was brought here illegally at age 5. Now, 26 yr old and still not legal.

Being here doesnt make you legal.

---

Different from the situaiton you describe. When I say that the people shipped to Martha's Vineyard are here legally, I am saying that they followed the laws of the United States in seeking asylum. That gives them a legal right to remain int he country until their asylum request is adjudicated.

You might disagree with the law, but that is the law.

---

Fine, so Florida doesn't have the right to help them get to Mass to wait for their hearings?

Do you believe non-border states should be allowed to determine immigration laws? If they are, then there should be no issue taking g a small amount until hearings. After all asylum is not planned, so Florida has no idea how many will show up and when.

---

Florida can do what it wants to help people awaiting asylum heaqrings. If Florida lies to people, takes them in place where they have no shot at work, to prove a political point, then Florida is a jerk.

The federal government sets immigration policy. It has to be that way.

---

Why do they have no shot at work? Are you saying Martha's Vineyard is racist? That is illegal. Will Garland investigate why these asylum seekers are denied work in Martha's Vineyard?


Why do you assume Florida is easy to find work? This is a National issue, the Feds are making the policy. All the States should help.

---

Because Martha's Vineyard's economy is wholly seasonal.

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Florida is not a seasonal place. Yeah. 50 people can't find a job in the Martha Vineyard area???? 50. We are talking less than a football team. Yet the economy can't handle it.

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No, there are not 50 extra jobs in Martha's Vineyard in the off season. The population is about 10% of what it is in-season. Most businesses just close.

It is nothing at all like "off season" Florida. These facts are inconvenient for you, I know.

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No, it is inconvenient for you. You are comparing one city to a State. The State of Mass is not equipped to handle 50 people?

As for Florida, we have a 30% seasonal factor (smowbirds). It is worse in Geb/March for Spring Training. That is pretty extreme, for those of us that actually deal with seasonality.

A comparison to Martha's Vineyard would be Key Biscayne. When illegals show up, they don't stay there. Do you have any experience with what you are talking about?

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Your Key Biscayne analogy proves my point, not yours. They do not willingly go where there is no work. Here they were apparently tricked into going where there is no work.

Also, I don't think Florida shrinks by 30% at any point in the year. Martha's Vineyard shrinks by 90% starting about right now.

And your suggestion is, hey just get a job somewhere else in Massachusetts. Never mind that you don't have any transport. Not very realistic.

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BS, there is work in the border towns??? They go where they get in. In Florida, they go where the raft lands, one of the Keys. No work. This is not a thought out career plan, they go where they can get in. Martha's Vineyard is as good as any place else. They are in processed at the initial site, often to never be seen again for their hearing.

Geez you are dense, you think they are staying in Martha's Vineyard? They will be there a day, then on to Boston or other processing place. Mass has great social services, DeSantis did them a favor.

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Wangchung said:

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Activists suing DeSantis over Martha's Vineyard flights received over $1.3M from George Soros network

https://www.yahoo.com/news/activists-suing-desantis-over-martha-191150505.html

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