Florda is no leftist.Rawhide said:I get what you're saying... because the only time I see or hear about qanon, it's from a leftist idiot.Sam Lowry said:
I hear that "saves one life" mantra a lot. But only here, and only from right-wingers.
Masks are Never Coming Off
198,261 Views |
2981 Replies |
Last: 4 mo ago by Wangchung
So the last post of mine you paid attention to was well over a year ago, and you still got the details wrong.Sam Lowry said:I've been defending it since the virus first hit America and you predicted no more than a few hundred deaths. You are ineducable.Oldbear83 said:Defend your claim.Sam Lowry said:Because Covid is worse?Doc Holliday said:
I've been asking this question for a while now.100 thousand people can die of the flu and we don’t bat an eye. No measures are taken. Nothing is done. It’s barely discussed. But the attitude towards COVID is that no amount of death is tolerable. No risk is acceptable. This simply makes no sense at all.
— Matt Walsh (@MattWalshBlog) July 30, 2021
Why aren't those who are concerned over COVID previously showing the same level of concern over flu? You weren't urging people to get flu vaccines, wear masks or social distance.
If your standards don't apply to everything, you're a hypocrite. End of story.
We're clearly a country of half truths, stereotypes and hysteria.
That explains a lot.
But no, you have not defended your claim, you have simply repeated it in various ways and insulted anyone who disagreed.
You make quite the Psaki clone.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
It's been asked and answered multiple times. And I've never said businesses couldn't decide to require masks. The vaccine requirement gets a little dicey, but I understand the argument for it. Principles of privacy and liberty come into play though when you get the government involved.Sam Lowry said:What is the principle? That's precisely what I'm asking you and Doc, because I think you may have some. It isn't property rights. So?ATL Bear said:Some would say principles, which don't matter to you anymore, only the fear of COVID.Sam Lowry said:More generalities. What does this have to do with pandemics, or with Covid in particular?ATL Bear said:We're dealing in fear and panic. The government has an interest in control and power. They express it through several "public" interests. Citizens decide how far they allow it to encroach on their freedom. One thing is clear throughout history though, fear will make citizens enable incredible encroachment.Sam Lowry said:This is very scattershot. It's your analogy. Can we agree the government has an interest in public health, or are we still dealing in libertarian fantasy? You tell me and we'll argue the details.ATL Bear said:Human breathing as a parallel to toxic waste. Good grief. Even smoking isn't as restricted as what you seem to be advocating. This goes no where because you're being obstinate and cowardly. Protect yourself Sam. You have a litany of options. Let others live with their individual choices. That's what free people and societies do.Sam Lowry said:You brought it up, but it doesn't go anywhere surprising. Government has a legitimate interest in safeguarding air quality and human life. No one has unlimited freedom to spew toxic waste.ATL Bear said:I know where this is going. All I can say is, wow Sam. Everyone is a public danger, so let's control everyone, instead of free people using their judgement to make their own choices. Protect me from myself Mother government.Sam Lowry said:That fine as long as you can hold your breath. Otherwise the air is a public good.ATL Bear said:From the point it enters and exits my body I would assume so.Sam Lowry said:Do you?ATL Bear said:Does government own the air we breathe?Sam Lowry said:Pregnancy isn't airborne. I'm sure you can imagine the demand for precautions if it were.ATL Bear said:Agree, and? This is about lowering the opportunity for death/harm caused by the actions of another, right? Isn't that your "prolife" argument for masks? Wearing a mask isn't healthcare any more than wearing a condom is.Sam Lowry said:ATL Bear said:I wouldn't support government mandated condom wearing to prevent abortion.Sam Lowry said:It is shocking how indifferent you "pro-lifers" have become. It's as if you have no faith at all.Mothra said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Mask up Sam. Board up your windows with plywood and make sure your Papa John's delivery guy has on a Haz-Mat suit when he delivers your pizza. If the Haz-Mat suit is white, you should reject the pizza delivery and make sure he or someone else comes back in a black Haz-Mat suit. I really hope your pizza does not get cold!Sam Lowry said:Evidently not.Rawhide said:Your average American is sick and tired of masks, mandates and lockdownsDoc Holliday said:
Lockdown coming back?BREAKING: The Biden administration indicates they are open to returning to lockdowns. pic.twitter.com/lcj66Fggkz
— (((Jason Rantz))) on KTTH Radio (@jasonrantz) July 29, 2021
It is shocking what a coward this guy's turned into. I didn't always agree with him, but could always count on him to give a thoughtful and reasoned conservative position.
On this issue, you couldn't distinguish him from the big govt. lefties who haven't seen a mask mandate or lockdown they didn't like. It's as if he has no faith at all.
The old saying remains true - people will trade freedom for security. That seems to be the case with poor Sam.
I'm not arguing against mask usage, just the governmental mandating of it. Hence the parallel.
So you've got privacy and liberty on one side, public health on the other. What principle tells you where to draw the line between them?ATL Bear said:It's been asked and answered multiple times. And I've never said businesses couldn't decide to require masks. The vaccine requirement gets a little dicey, but I understand the argument for it. Principles of privacy and liberty come into play though when you get the government involved.Sam Lowry said:What is the principle? That's precisely what I'm asking you and Doc, because I think you may have some. It isn't property rights. So?ATL Bear said:Some would say principles, which don't matter to you anymore, only the fear of COVID.Sam Lowry said:More generalities. What does this have to do with pandemics, or with Covid in particular?ATL Bear said:We're dealing in fear and panic. The government has an interest in control and power. They express it through several "public" interests. Citizens decide how far they allow it to encroach on their freedom. One thing is clear throughout history though, fear will make citizens enable incredible encroachment.Sam Lowry said:This is very scattershot. It's your analogy. Can we agree the government has an interest in public health, or are we still dealing in libertarian fantasy? You tell me and we'll argue the details.ATL Bear said:Human breathing as a parallel to toxic waste. Good grief. Even smoking isn't as restricted as what you seem to be advocating. This goes no where because you're being obstinate and cowardly. Protect yourself Sam. You have a litany of options. Let others live with their individual choices. That's what free people and societies do.Sam Lowry said:You brought it up, but it doesn't go anywhere surprising. Government has a legitimate interest in safeguarding air quality and human life. No one has unlimited freedom to spew toxic waste.ATL Bear said:I know where this is going. All I can say is, wow Sam. Everyone is a public danger, so let's control everyone, instead of free people using their judgement to make their own choices. Protect me from myself Mother government.Sam Lowry said:That fine as long as you can hold your breath. Otherwise the air is a public good.ATL Bear said:From the point it enters and exits my body I would assume so.Sam Lowry said:Do you?ATL Bear said:Does government own the air we breathe?Sam Lowry said:Pregnancy isn't airborne. I'm sure you can imagine the demand for precautions if it were.ATL Bear said:Agree, and? This is about lowering the opportunity for death/harm caused by the actions of another, right? Isn't that your "prolife" argument for masks? Wearing a mask isn't healthcare any more than wearing a condom is.Sam Lowry said:ATL Bear said:I wouldn't support government mandated condom wearing to prevent abortion.Sam Lowry said:It is shocking how indifferent you "pro-lifers" have become. It's as if you have no faith at all.Mothra said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Mask up Sam. Board up your windows with plywood and make sure your Papa John's delivery guy has on a Haz-Mat suit when he delivers your pizza. If the Haz-Mat suit is white, you should reject the pizza delivery and make sure he or someone else comes back in a black Haz-Mat suit. I really hope your pizza does not get cold!Sam Lowry said:Evidently not.Rawhide said:Your average American is sick and tired of masks, mandates and lockdownsDoc Holliday said:
Lockdown coming back?BREAKING: The Biden administration indicates they are open to returning to lockdowns. pic.twitter.com/lcj66Fggkz
— (((Jason Rantz))) on KTTH Radio (@jasonrantz) July 29, 2021
It is shocking what a coward this guy's turned into. I didn't always agree with him, but could always count on him to give a thoughtful and reasoned conservative position.
On this issue, you couldn't distinguish him from the big govt. lefties who haven't seen a mask mandate or lockdown they didn't like. It's as if he has no faith at all.
The old saying remains true - people will trade freedom for security. That seems to be the case with poor Sam.
I'm not arguing against mask usage, just the governmental mandating of it. Hence the parallel.
Sam Lowry said:So you've got privacy and liberty on one side, public health on the other. What principle tells you where to draw the line between them?ATL Bear said:It's been asked and answered multiple times. And I've never said businesses couldn't decide to require masks. The vaccine requirement gets a little dicey, but I understand the argument for it. Principles of privacy and liberty come into play though when you get the government involved.Sam Lowry said:What is the principle? That's precisely what I'm asking you and Doc, because I think you may have some. It isn't property rights. So?ATL Bear said:Some would say principles, which don't matter to you anymore, only the fear of COVID.Sam Lowry said:More generalities. What does this have to do with pandemics, or with Covid in particular?ATL Bear said:We're dealing in fear and panic. The government has an interest in control and power. They express it through several "public" interests. Citizens decide how far they allow it to encroach on their freedom. One thing is clear throughout history though, fear will make citizens enable incredible encroachment.Sam Lowry said:This is very scattershot. It's your analogy. Can we agree the government has an interest in public health, or are we still dealing in libertarian fantasy? You tell me and we'll argue the details.ATL Bear said:Human breathing as a parallel to toxic waste. Good grief. Even smoking isn't as restricted as what you seem to be advocating. This goes no where because you're being obstinate and cowardly. Protect yourself Sam. You have a litany of options. Let others live with their individual choices. That's what free people and societies do.Sam Lowry said:You brought it up, but it doesn't go anywhere surprising. Government has a legitimate interest in safeguarding air quality and human life. No one has unlimited freedom to spew toxic waste.ATL Bear said:I know where this is going. All I can say is, wow Sam. Everyone is a public danger, so let's control everyone, instead of free people using their judgement to make their own choices. Protect me from myself Mother government.Sam Lowry said:That fine as long as you can hold your breath. Otherwise the air is a public good.ATL Bear said:From the point it enters and exits my body I would assume so.Sam Lowry said:Do you?ATL Bear said:Does government own the air we breathe?Sam Lowry said:Pregnancy isn't airborne. I'm sure you can imagine the demand for precautions if it were.ATL Bear said:Agree, and? This is about lowering the opportunity for death/harm caused by the actions of another, right? Isn't that your "prolife" argument for masks? Wearing a mask isn't healthcare any more than wearing a condom is.Sam Lowry said:ATL Bear said:I wouldn't support government mandated condom wearing to prevent abortion.Sam Lowry said:It is shocking how indifferent you "pro-lifers" have become. It's as if you have no faith at all.Mothra said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Mask up Sam. Board up your windows with plywood and make sure your Papa John's delivery guy has on a Haz-Mat suit when he delivers your pizza. If the Haz-Mat suit is white, you should reject the pizza delivery and make sure he or someone else comes back in a black Haz-Mat suit. I really hope your pizza does not get cold!Sam Lowry said:Evidently not.Rawhide said:Your average American is sick and tired of masks, mandates and lockdownsDoc Holliday said:
Lockdown coming back?BREAKING: The Biden administration indicates they are open to returning to lockdowns. pic.twitter.com/lcj66Fggkz
— (((Jason Rantz))) on KTTH Radio (@jasonrantz) July 29, 2021
It is shocking what a coward this guy's turned into. I didn't always agree with him, but could always count on him to give a thoughtful and reasoned conservative position.
On this issue, you couldn't distinguish him from the big govt. lefties who haven't seen a mask mandate or lockdown they didn't like. It's as if he has no faith at all.
The old saying remains true - people will trade freedom for security. That seems to be the case with poor Sam.
I'm not arguing against mask usage, just the governmental mandating of it. Hence the parallel.
I pray we stop obeying the principles of hypochondriacs like you!
You're going to need to be more specific than "Public Health".Sam Lowry said:So you've got privacy and liberty on one side, public health on the other. What principle tells you where to draw the line between them?ATL Bear said:It's been asked and answered multiple times. And I've never said businesses couldn't decide to require masks. The vaccine requirement gets a little dicey, but I understand the argument for it. Principles of privacy and liberty come into play though when you get the government involved.Sam Lowry said:What is the principle? That's precisely what I'm asking you and Doc, because I think you may have some. It isn't property rights. So?ATL Bear said:Some would say principles, which don't matter to you anymore, only the fear of COVID.Sam Lowry said:More generalities. What does this have to do with pandemics, or with Covid in particular?ATL Bear said:We're dealing in fear and panic. The government has an interest in control and power. They express it through several "public" interests. Citizens decide how far they allow it to encroach on their freedom. One thing is clear throughout history though, fear will make citizens enable incredible encroachment.Sam Lowry said:This is very scattershot. It's your analogy. Can we agree the government has an interest in public health, or are we still dealing in libertarian fantasy? You tell me and we'll argue the details.ATL Bear said:Human breathing as a parallel to toxic waste. Good grief. Even smoking isn't as restricted as what you seem to be advocating. This goes no where because you're being obstinate and cowardly. Protect yourself Sam. You have a litany of options. Let others live with their individual choices. That's what free people and societies do.Sam Lowry said:You brought it up, but it doesn't go anywhere surprising. Government has a legitimate interest in safeguarding air quality and human life. No one has unlimited freedom to spew toxic waste.ATL Bear said:I know where this is going. All I can say is, wow Sam. Everyone is a public danger, so let's control everyone, instead of free people using their judgement to make their own choices. Protect me from myself Mother government.Sam Lowry said:That fine as long as you can hold your breath. Otherwise the air is a public good.ATL Bear said:From the point it enters and exits my body I would assume so.Sam Lowry said:Do you?ATL Bear said:Does government own the air we breathe?Sam Lowry said:Pregnancy isn't airborne. I'm sure you can imagine the demand for precautions if it were.ATL Bear said:Agree, and? This is about lowering the opportunity for death/harm caused by the actions of another, right? Isn't that your "prolife" argument for masks? Wearing a mask isn't healthcare any more than wearing a condom is.Sam Lowry said:ATL Bear said:I wouldn't support government mandated condom wearing to prevent abortion.Sam Lowry said:It is shocking how indifferent you "pro-lifers" have become. It's as if you have no faith at all.Mothra said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Mask up Sam. Board up your windows with plywood and make sure your Papa John's delivery guy has on a Haz-Mat suit when he delivers your pizza. If the Haz-Mat suit is white, you should reject the pizza delivery and make sure he or someone else comes back in a black Haz-Mat suit. I really hope your pizza does not get cold!Sam Lowry said:Evidently not.Rawhide said:Your average American is sick and tired of masks, mandates and lockdownsDoc Holliday said:
Lockdown coming back?BREAKING: The Biden administration indicates they are open to returning to lockdowns. pic.twitter.com/lcj66Fggkz
— (((Jason Rantz))) on KTTH Radio (@jasonrantz) July 29, 2021
It is shocking what a coward this guy's turned into. I didn't always agree with him, but could always count on him to give a thoughtful and reasoned conservative position.
On this issue, you couldn't distinguish him from the big govt. lefties who haven't seen a mask mandate or lockdown they didn't like. It's as if he has no faith at all.
The old saying remains true - people will trade freedom for security. That seems to be the case with poor Sam.
I'm not arguing against mask usage, just the governmental mandating of it. Hence the parallel.
Sam: "So you've got privacy and liberty on one side, public health on the other. What principle tells you where to draw the line between them?"
Candor, for one thing. When the public is given a false statement, this damages the credibility of the official making such statements, which is why I pay no attention to Fauci.
Transparency also matters. We were not given the data of the Delta variant for some time, making it hard to see if the facts supported the harsher measures recommended.
Anytime a person or group says 'listen to me/us, and only me/us', that is reason to be wary.
Candor, for one thing. When the public is given a false statement, this damages the credibility of the official making such statements, which is why I pay no attention to Fauci.
Transparency also matters. We were not given the data of the Delta variant for some time, making it hard to see if the facts supported the harsher measures recommended.
Anytime a person or group says 'listen to me/us, and only me/us', that is reason to be wary.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83 said:
Sam: "So you've got privacy and liberty on one side, public health on the other. What principle tells you where to draw the line between them?"
Candor, for one thing. When the public is given a false statement, this damages the credibility of the official making such statements, which is why I pay no attention to Fauci.
Transparency also matters. We were not given the data of the Delta variant for some time, making it hard to see if the facts supported the harsher measures recommended.
Anytime a person or group says 'listen to me/us, and only me/us', that is reason to be wary.
Yep, there are better sources than the guy who changes his publicly stated "scientific" estimates based on his perception of public opinion.
Don't dodge. It's a simple question.ATL Bear said:You're going to need to be more specific than "Public Health".Sam Lowry said:So you've got privacy and liberty on one side, public health on the other. What principle tells you where to draw the line between them?ATL Bear said:It's been asked and answered multiple times. And I've never said businesses couldn't decide to require masks. The vaccine requirement gets a little dicey, but I understand the argument for it. Principles of privacy and liberty come into play though when you get the government involved.Sam Lowry said:What is the principle? That's precisely what I'm asking you and Doc, because I think you may have some. It isn't property rights. So?ATL Bear said:Some would say principles, which don't matter to you anymore, only the fear of COVID.Sam Lowry said:More generalities. What does this have to do with pandemics, or with Covid in particular?ATL Bear said:We're dealing in fear and panic. The government has an interest in control and power. They express it through several "public" interests. Citizens decide how far they allow it to encroach on their freedom. One thing is clear throughout history though, fear will make citizens enable incredible encroachment.Sam Lowry said:This is very scattershot. It's your analogy. Can we agree the government has an interest in public health, or are we still dealing in libertarian fantasy? You tell me and we'll argue the details.ATL Bear said:Human breathing as a parallel to toxic waste. Good grief. Even smoking isn't as restricted as what you seem to be advocating. This goes no where because you're being obstinate and cowardly. Protect yourself Sam. You have a litany of options. Let others live with their individual choices. That's what free people and societies do.Sam Lowry said:You brought it up, but it doesn't go anywhere surprising. Government has a legitimate interest in safeguarding air quality and human life. No one has unlimited freedom to spew toxic waste.ATL Bear said:I know where this is going. All I can say is, wow Sam. Everyone is a public danger, so let's control everyone, instead of free people using their judgement to make their own choices. Protect me from myself Mother government.Sam Lowry said:That fine as long as you can hold your breath. Otherwise the air is a public good.ATL Bear said:From the point it enters and exits my body I would assume so.Sam Lowry said:Do you?ATL Bear said:Does government own the air we breathe?Sam Lowry said:Pregnancy isn't airborne. I'm sure you can imagine the demand for precautions if it were.ATL Bear said:Agree, and? This is about lowering the opportunity for death/harm caused by the actions of another, right? Isn't that your "prolife" argument for masks? Wearing a mask isn't healthcare any more than wearing a condom is.Sam Lowry said:ATL Bear said:I wouldn't support government mandated condom wearing to prevent abortion.Sam Lowry said:It is shocking how indifferent you "pro-lifers" have become. It's as if you have no faith at all.Mothra said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Mask up Sam. Board up your windows with plywood and make sure your Papa John's delivery guy has on a Haz-Mat suit when he delivers your pizza. If the Haz-Mat suit is white, you should reject the pizza delivery and make sure he or someone else comes back in a black Haz-Mat suit. I really hope your pizza does not get cold!Sam Lowry said:Evidently not.Rawhide said:Your average American is sick and tired of masks, mandates and lockdownsDoc Holliday said:
Lockdown coming back?BREAKING: The Biden administration indicates they are open to returning to lockdowns. pic.twitter.com/lcj66Fggkz
— (((Jason Rantz))) on KTTH Radio (@jasonrantz) July 29, 2021
It is shocking what a coward this guy's turned into. I didn't always agree with him, but could always count on him to give a thoughtful and reasoned conservative position.
On this issue, you couldn't distinguish him from the big govt. lefties who haven't seen a mask mandate or lockdown they didn't like. It's as if he has no faith at all.
The old saying remains true - people will trade freedom for security. That seems to be the case with poor Sam.
I'm not arguing against mask usage, just the governmental mandating of it. Hence the parallel.
Public health is an amorphous term that crosses personal welfare, private enterprise, public policy, and a whole litany of subset roles, participants, and concepts. I specifically gave you liberty and privacy which tie back to specific amendments and case law. I've advised you I am against government mandates in two areas, and yet you can't even articulate the area of public health to be addressed and argued.Sam Lowry said:Don't dodge. It's a simple question.ATL Bear said:You're going to need to be more specific than "Public Health".Sam Lowry said:So you've got privacy and liberty on one side, public health on the other. What principle tells you where to draw the line between them?ATL Bear said:It's been asked and answered multiple times. And I've never said businesses couldn't decide to require masks. The vaccine requirement gets a little dicey, but I understand the argument for it. Principles of privacy and liberty come into play though when you get the government involved.Sam Lowry said:What is the principle? That's precisely what I'm asking you and Doc, because I think you may have some. It isn't property rights. So?ATL Bear said:Some would say principles, which don't matter to you anymore, only the fear of COVID.Sam Lowry said:More generalities. What does this have to do with pandemics, or with Covid in particular?ATL Bear said:We're dealing in fear and panic. The government has an interest in control and power. They express it through several "public" interests. Citizens decide how far they allow it to encroach on their freedom. One thing is clear throughout history though, fear will make citizens enable incredible encroachment.Sam Lowry said:This is very scattershot. It's your analogy. Can we agree the government has an interest in public health, or are we still dealing in libertarian fantasy? You tell me and we'll argue the details.ATL Bear said:Human breathing as a parallel to toxic waste. Good grief. Even smoking isn't as restricted as what you seem to be advocating. This goes no where because you're being obstinate and cowardly. Protect yourself Sam. You have a litany of options. Let others live with their individual choices. That's what free people and societies do.Sam Lowry said:You brought it up, but it doesn't go anywhere surprising. Government has a legitimate interest in safeguarding air quality and human life. No one has unlimited freedom to spew toxic waste.ATL Bear said:I know where this is going. All I can say is, wow Sam. Everyone is a public danger, so let's control everyone, instead of free people using their judgement to make their own choices. Protect me from myself Mother government.Sam Lowry said:That fine as long as you can hold your breath. Otherwise the air is a public good.ATL Bear said:From the point it enters and exits my body I would assume so.Sam Lowry said:Do you?ATL Bear said:Does government own the air we breathe?Sam Lowry said:Pregnancy isn't airborne. I'm sure you can imagine the demand for precautions if it were.ATL Bear said:Agree, and? This is about lowering the opportunity for death/harm caused by the actions of another, right? Isn't that your "prolife" argument for masks? Wearing a mask isn't healthcare any more than wearing a condom is.Sam Lowry said:ATL Bear said:I wouldn't support government mandated condom wearing to prevent abortion.Sam Lowry said:It is shocking how indifferent you "pro-lifers" have become. It's as if you have no faith at all.Mothra said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Mask up Sam. Board up your windows with plywood and make sure your Papa John's delivery guy has on a Haz-Mat suit when he delivers your pizza. If the Haz-Mat suit is white, you should reject the pizza delivery and make sure he or someone else comes back in a black Haz-Mat suit. I really hope your pizza does not get cold!Sam Lowry said:Evidently not.Rawhide said:Your average American is sick and tired of masks, mandates and lockdownsDoc Holliday said:
Lockdown coming back?BREAKING: The Biden administration indicates they are open to returning to lockdowns. pic.twitter.com/lcj66Fggkz
— (((Jason Rantz))) on KTTH Radio (@jasonrantz) July 29, 2021
It is shocking what a coward this guy's turned into. I didn't always agree with him, but could always count on him to give a thoughtful and reasoned conservative position.
On this issue, you couldn't distinguish him from the big govt. lefties who haven't seen a mask mandate or lockdown they didn't like. It's as if he has no faith at all.
The old saying remains true - people will trade freedom for security. That seems to be the case with poor Sam.
I'm not arguing against mask usage, just the governmental mandating of it. Hence the parallel.
You are the one avoiding and dodging the admission that fear of COVID is the ONLY driver for your willingness for excessive encroachment of personal rights. Heed your own advice and give me the specific principles of public health where you're drawing your red lines?
Like I said, I don't find the encroachments excessive because they're not unconstitutional. How do you define excessive?ATL Bear said:Public health is an amorphous term that crosses personal welfare, private enterprise, public policy, and a whole litany of subset roles, participants, and concepts. I specifically gave you liberty and privacy which tie back to specific amendments and case law. I've advised you I am against government mandates in two areas, and yet you can't even articulate the area of public health to be addressed and argued.Sam Lowry said:Don't dodge. It's a simple question.ATL Bear said:You're going to need to be more specific than "Public Health".Sam Lowry said:So you've got privacy and liberty on one side, public health on the other. What principle tells you where to draw the line between them?ATL Bear said:It's been asked and answered multiple times. And I've never said businesses couldn't decide to require masks. The vaccine requirement gets a little dicey, but I understand the argument for it. Principles of privacy and liberty come into play though when you get the government involved.Sam Lowry said:What is the principle? That's precisely what I'm asking you and Doc, because I think you may have some. It isn't property rights. So?ATL Bear said:Some would say principles, which don't matter to you anymore, only the fear of COVID.Sam Lowry said:More generalities. What does this have to do with pandemics, or with Covid in particular?ATL Bear said:We're dealing in fear and panic. The government has an interest in control and power. They express it through several "public" interests. Citizens decide how far they allow it to encroach on their freedom. One thing is clear throughout history though, fear will make citizens enable incredible encroachment.Sam Lowry said:This is very scattershot. It's your analogy. Can we agree the government has an interest in public health, or are we still dealing in libertarian fantasy? You tell me and we'll argue the details.ATL Bear said:Human breathing as a parallel to toxic waste. Good grief. Even smoking isn't as restricted as what you seem to be advocating. This goes no where because you're being obstinate and cowardly. Protect yourself Sam. You have a litany of options. Let others live with their individual choices. That's what free people and societies do.Sam Lowry said:You brought it up, but it doesn't go anywhere surprising. Government has a legitimate interest in safeguarding air quality and human life. No one has unlimited freedom to spew toxic waste.ATL Bear said:I know where this is going. All I can say is, wow Sam. Everyone is a public danger, so let's control everyone, instead of free people using their judgement to make their own choices. Protect me from myself Mother government.Sam Lowry said:That fine as long as you can hold your breath. Otherwise the air is a public good.ATL Bear said:From the point it enters and exits my body I would assume so.Sam Lowry said:Do you?ATL Bear said:Does government own the air we breathe?Sam Lowry said:Pregnancy isn't airborne. I'm sure you can imagine the demand for precautions if it were.ATL Bear said:Agree, and? This is about lowering the opportunity for death/harm caused by the actions of another, right? Isn't that your "prolife" argument for masks? Wearing a mask isn't healthcare any more than wearing a condom is.Sam Lowry said:ATL Bear said:I wouldn't support government mandated condom wearing to prevent abortion.Sam Lowry said:It is shocking how indifferent you "pro-lifers" have become. It's as if you have no faith at all.Mothra said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Mask up Sam. Board up your windows with plywood and make sure your Papa John's delivery guy has on a Haz-Mat suit when he delivers your pizza. If the Haz-Mat suit is white, you should reject the pizza delivery and make sure he or someone else comes back in a black Haz-Mat suit. I really hope your pizza does not get cold!Sam Lowry said:Evidently not.Rawhide said:Your average American is sick and tired of masks, mandates and lockdownsDoc Holliday said:
Lockdown coming back?BREAKING: The Biden administration indicates they are open to returning to lockdowns. pic.twitter.com/lcj66Fggkz
— (((Jason Rantz))) on KTTH Radio (@jasonrantz) July 29, 2021
It is shocking what a coward this guy's turned into. I didn't always agree with him, but could always count on him to give a thoughtful and reasoned conservative position.
On this issue, you couldn't distinguish him from the big govt. lefties who haven't seen a mask mandate or lockdown they didn't like. It's as if he has no faith at all.
The old saying remains true - people will trade freedom for security. That seems to be the case with poor Sam.
I'm not arguing against mask usage, just the governmental mandating of it. Hence the parallel.
You are the one avoiding and dodging the admission that fear of COVID is the ONLY driver for your willingness for excessive encroachment of personal rights. Heed your own advice and give me the specific principles of public health where you're drawing your red lines?
Then we disagree.Sam Lowry said:Like I said, I don't find the encroachments excessive because they're not unconstitutional. How do you define excessive?ATL Bear said:Public health is an amorphous term that crosses personal welfare, private enterprise, public policy, and a whole litany of subset roles, participants, and concepts. I specifically gave you liberty and privacy which tie back to specific amendments and case law. I've advised you I am against government mandates in two areas, and yet you can't even articulate the area of public health to be addressed and argued.Sam Lowry said:Don't dodge. It's a simple question.ATL Bear said:You're going to need to be more specific than "Public Health".Sam Lowry said:So you've got privacy and liberty on one side, public health on the other. What principle tells you where to draw the line between them?ATL Bear said:It's been asked and answered multiple times. And I've never said businesses couldn't decide to require masks. The vaccine requirement gets a little dicey, but I understand the argument for it. Principles of privacy and liberty come into play though when you get the government involved.Sam Lowry said:What is the principle? That's precisely what I'm asking you and Doc, because I think you may have some. It isn't property rights. So?ATL Bear said:Some would say principles, which don't matter to you anymore, only the fear of COVID.Sam Lowry said:More generalities. What does this have to do with pandemics, or with Covid in particular?ATL Bear said:We're dealing in fear and panic. The government has an interest in control and power. They express it through several "public" interests. Citizens decide how far they allow it to encroach on their freedom. One thing is clear throughout history though, fear will make citizens enable incredible encroachment.Sam Lowry said:This is very scattershot. It's your analogy. Can we agree the government has an interest in public health, or are we still dealing in libertarian fantasy? You tell me and we'll argue the details.ATL Bear said:Human breathing as a parallel to toxic waste. Good grief. Even smoking isn't as restricted as what you seem to be advocating. This goes no where because you're being obstinate and cowardly. Protect yourself Sam. You have a litany of options. Let others live with their individual choices. That's what free people and societies do.Sam Lowry said:You brought it up, but it doesn't go anywhere surprising. Government has a legitimate interest in safeguarding air quality and human life. No one has unlimited freedom to spew toxic waste.ATL Bear said:I know where this is going. All I can say is, wow Sam. Everyone is a public danger, so let's control everyone, instead of free people using their judgement to make their own choices. Protect me from myself Mother government.Sam Lowry said:That fine as long as you can hold your breath. Otherwise the air is a public good.ATL Bear said:From the point it enters and exits my body I would assume so.Sam Lowry said:Do you?ATL Bear said:Does government own the air we breathe?Sam Lowry said:Pregnancy isn't airborne. I'm sure you can imagine the demand for precautions if it were.ATL Bear said:Agree, and? This is about lowering the opportunity for death/harm caused by the actions of another, right? Isn't that your "prolife" argument for masks? Wearing a mask isn't healthcare any more than wearing a condom is.Sam Lowry said:ATL Bear said:I wouldn't support government mandated condom wearing to prevent abortion.Sam Lowry said:It is shocking how indifferent you "pro-lifers" have become. It's as if you have no faith at all.Mothra said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Mask up Sam. Board up your windows with plywood and make sure your Papa John's delivery guy has on a Haz-Mat suit when he delivers your pizza. If the Haz-Mat suit is white, you should reject the pizza delivery and make sure he or someone else comes back in a black Haz-Mat suit. I really hope your pizza does not get cold!Sam Lowry said:Evidently not.Rawhide said:Your average American is sick and tired of masks, mandates and lockdownsDoc Holliday said:
Lockdown coming back?BREAKING: The Biden administration indicates they are open to returning to lockdowns. pic.twitter.com/lcj66Fggkz
— (((Jason Rantz))) on KTTH Radio (@jasonrantz) July 29, 2021
It is shocking what a coward this guy's turned into. I didn't always agree with him, but could always count on him to give a thoughtful and reasoned conservative position.
On this issue, you couldn't distinguish him from the big govt. lefties who haven't seen a mask mandate or lockdown they didn't like. It's as if he has no faith at all.
The old saying remains true - people will trade freedom for security. That seems to be the case with poor Sam.
I'm not arguing against mask usage, just the governmental mandating of it. Hence the parallel.
You are the one avoiding and dodging the admission that fear of COVID is the ONLY driver for your willingness for excessive encroachment of personal rights. Heed your own advice and give me the specific principles of public health where you're drawing your red lines?
Sam: "I don't find the encroachments excessive because they're not unconstitutional. How do you define excessive?"
So anything is OK as long as - in your opinion - it's legal?
So anything is OK as long as - in your opinion - it's legal?
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Obviously, but on what principle? You know how pro-choicers only ever say "because freedom?" Do you find it persuasive? No, because we all like freedom. So do I, believe it or not.ATL Bear said:Then we disagree.Sam Lowry said:Like I said, I don't find the encroachments excessive because they're not unconstitutional. How do you define excessive?ATL Bear said:Public health is an amorphous term that crosses personal welfare, private enterprise, public policy, and a whole litany of subset roles, participants, and concepts. I specifically gave you liberty and privacy which tie back to specific amendments and case law. I've advised you I am against government mandates in two areas, and yet you can't even articulate the area of public health to be addressed and argued.Sam Lowry said:Don't dodge. It's a simple question.ATL Bear said:You're going to need to be more specific than "Public Health".Sam Lowry said:So you've got privacy and liberty on one side, public health on the other. What principle tells you where to draw the line between them?ATL Bear said:It's been asked and answered multiple times. And I've never said businesses couldn't decide to require masks. The vaccine requirement gets a little dicey, but I understand the argument for it. Principles of privacy and liberty come into play though when you get the government involved.Sam Lowry said:What is the principle? That's precisely what I'm asking you and Doc, because I think you may have some. It isn't property rights. So?ATL Bear said:Some would say principles, which don't matter to you anymore, only the fear of COVID.Sam Lowry said:More generalities. What does this have to do with pandemics, or with Covid in particular?ATL Bear said:We're dealing in fear and panic. The government has an interest in control and power. They express it through several "public" interests. Citizens decide how far they allow it to encroach on their freedom. One thing is clear throughout history though, fear will make citizens enable incredible encroachment.Sam Lowry said:This is very scattershot. It's your analogy. Can we agree the government has an interest in public health, or are we still dealing in libertarian fantasy? You tell me and we'll argue the details.ATL Bear said:Human breathing as a parallel to toxic waste. Good grief. Even smoking isn't as restricted as what you seem to be advocating. This goes no where because you're being obstinate and cowardly. Protect yourself Sam. You have a litany of options. Let others live with their individual choices. That's what free people and societies do.Sam Lowry said:You brought it up, but it doesn't go anywhere surprising. Government has a legitimate interest in safeguarding air quality and human life. No one has unlimited freedom to spew toxic waste.ATL Bear said:I know where this is going. All I can say is, wow Sam. Everyone is a public danger, so let's control everyone, instead of free people using their judgement to make their own choices. Protect me from myself Mother government.Sam Lowry said:That fine as long as you can hold your breath. Otherwise the air is a public good.ATL Bear said:From the point it enters and exits my body I would assume so.Sam Lowry said:Do you?ATL Bear said:Does government own the air we breathe?Sam Lowry said:Pregnancy isn't airborne. I'm sure you can imagine the demand for precautions if it were.ATL Bear said:Agree, and? This is about lowering the opportunity for death/harm caused by the actions of another, right? Isn't that your "prolife" argument for masks? Wearing a mask isn't healthcare any more than wearing a condom is.Sam Lowry said:ATL Bear said:I wouldn't support government mandated condom wearing to prevent abortion.Sam Lowry said:It is shocking how indifferent you "pro-lifers" have become. It's as if you have no faith at all.Mothra said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Mask up Sam. Board up your windows with plywood and make sure your Papa John's delivery guy has on a Haz-Mat suit when he delivers your pizza. If the Haz-Mat suit is white, you should reject the pizza delivery and make sure he or someone else comes back in a black Haz-Mat suit. I really hope your pizza does not get cold!Sam Lowry said:Evidently not.Rawhide said:Your average American is sick and tired of masks, mandates and lockdownsDoc Holliday said:
Lockdown coming back?BREAKING: The Biden administration indicates they are open to returning to lockdowns. pic.twitter.com/lcj66Fggkz
— (((Jason Rantz))) on KTTH Radio (@jasonrantz) July 29, 2021
It is shocking what a coward this guy's turned into. I didn't always agree with him, but could always count on him to give a thoughtful and reasoned conservative position.
On this issue, you couldn't distinguish him from the big govt. lefties who haven't seen a mask mandate or lockdown they didn't like. It's as if he has no faith at all.
The old saying remains true - people will trade freedom for security. That seems to be the case with poor Sam.
I'm not arguing against mask usage, just the governmental mandating of it. Hence the parallel.
You are the one avoiding and dodging the admission that fear of COVID is the ONLY driver for your willingness for excessive encroachment of personal rights. Heed your own advice and give me the specific principles of public health where you're drawing your red lines?
You don't like it more than fear. That's what you fail to understand.Sam Lowry said:Obviously, but on what principle? You know how pro-choicers only ever say "because freedom?" Do you find it persuasive? No, because we all like freedom. So do I, believe it or not.ATL Bear said:Then we disagree.Sam Lowry said:Like I said, I don't find the encroachments excessive because they're not unconstitutional. How do you define excessive?ATL Bear said:Public health is an amorphous term that crosses personal welfare, private enterprise, public policy, and a whole litany of subset roles, participants, and concepts. I specifically gave you liberty and privacy which tie back to specific amendments and case law. I've advised you I am against government mandates in two areas, and yet you can't even articulate the area of public health to be addressed and argued.Sam Lowry said:Don't dodge. It's a simple question.ATL Bear said:You're going to need to be more specific than "Public Health".Sam Lowry said:So you've got privacy and liberty on one side, public health on the other. What principle tells you where to draw the line between them?ATL Bear said:It's been asked and answered multiple times. And I've never said businesses couldn't decide to require masks. The vaccine requirement gets a little dicey, but I understand the argument for it. Principles of privacy and liberty come into play though when you get the government involved.Sam Lowry said:What is the principle? That's precisely what I'm asking you and Doc, because I think you may have some. It isn't property rights. So?ATL Bear said:Some would say principles, which don't matter to you anymore, only the fear of COVID.Sam Lowry said:More generalities. What does this have to do with pandemics, or with Covid in particular?ATL Bear said:We're dealing in fear and panic. The government has an interest in control and power. They express it through several "public" interests. Citizens decide how far they allow it to encroach on their freedom. One thing is clear throughout history though, fear will make citizens enable incredible encroachment.Sam Lowry said:This is very scattershot. It's your analogy. Can we agree the government has an interest in public health, or are we still dealing in libertarian fantasy? You tell me and we'll argue the details.ATL Bear said:Human breathing as a parallel to toxic waste. Good grief. Even smoking isn't as restricted as what you seem to be advocating. This goes no where because you're being obstinate and cowardly. Protect yourself Sam. You have a litany of options. Let others live with their individual choices. That's what free people and societies do.Sam Lowry said:You brought it up, but it doesn't go anywhere surprising. Government has a legitimate interest in safeguarding air quality and human life. No one has unlimited freedom to spew toxic waste.ATL Bear said:I know where this is going. All I can say is, wow Sam. Everyone is a public danger, so let's control everyone, instead of free people using their judgement to make their own choices. Protect me from myself Mother government.Sam Lowry said:That fine as long as you can hold your breath. Otherwise the air is a public good.ATL Bear said:From the point it enters and exits my body I would assume so.Sam Lowry said:Do you?ATL Bear said:Does government own the air we breathe?Sam Lowry said:Pregnancy isn't airborne. I'm sure you can imagine the demand for precautions if it were.ATL Bear said:Agree, and? This is about lowering the opportunity for death/harm caused by the actions of another, right? Isn't that your "prolife" argument for masks? Wearing a mask isn't healthcare any more than wearing a condom is.Sam Lowry said:ATL Bear said:I wouldn't support government mandated condom wearing to prevent abortion.Sam Lowry said:It is shocking how indifferent you "pro-lifers" have become. It's as if you have no faith at all.Mothra said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Mask up Sam. Board up your windows with plywood and make sure your Papa John's delivery guy has on a Haz-Mat suit when he delivers your pizza. If the Haz-Mat suit is white, you should reject the pizza delivery and make sure he or someone else comes back in a black Haz-Mat suit. I really hope your pizza does not get cold!Sam Lowry said:Evidently not.Rawhide said:Your average American is sick and tired of masks, mandates and lockdownsDoc Holliday said:
Lockdown coming back?BREAKING: The Biden administration indicates they are open to returning to lockdowns. pic.twitter.com/lcj66Fggkz
— (((Jason Rantz))) on KTTH Radio (@jasonrantz) July 29, 2021
It is shocking what a coward this guy's turned into. I didn't always agree with him, but could always count on him to give a thoughtful and reasoned conservative position.
On this issue, you couldn't distinguish him from the big govt. lefties who haven't seen a mask mandate or lockdown they didn't like. It's as if he has no faith at all.
The old saying remains true - people will trade freedom for security. That seems to be the case with poor Sam.
I'm not arguing against mask usage, just the governmental mandating of it. Hence the parallel.
You are the one avoiding and dodging the admission that fear of COVID is the ONLY driver for your willingness for excessive encroachment of personal rights. Heed your own advice and give me the specific principles of public health where you're drawing your red lines?
So any encroachment based on fear is excessive? You fear being robbed, you outlaw robbery, therefore the law is bad?ATL Bear said:You don't like it more than fear. That's what you fail to understand.Sam Lowry said:Obviously, but on what principle? You know how pro-choicers only ever say "because freedom?" Do you find it persuasive? No, because we all like freedom. So do I, believe it or not.ATL Bear said:Then we disagree.Sam Lowry said:Like I said, I don't find the encroachments excessive because they're not unconstitutional. How do you define excessive?ATL Bear said:Public health is an amorphous term that crosses personal welfare, private enterprise, public policy, and a whole litany of subset roles, participants, and concepts. I specifically gave you liberty and privacy which tie back to specific amendments and case law. I've advised you I am against government mandates in two areas, and yet you can't even articulate the area of public health to be addressed and argued.Sam Lowry said:Don't dodge. It's a simple question.ATL Bear said:You're going to need to be more specific than "Public Health".Sam Lowry said:So you've got privacy and liberty on one side, public health on the other. What principle tells you where to draw the line between them?ATL Bear said:It's been asked and answered multiple times. And I've never said businesses couldn't decide to require masks. The vaccine requirement gets a little dicey, but I understand the argument for it. Principles of privacy and liberty come into play though when you get the government involved.Sam Lowry said:What is the principle? That's precisely what I'm asking you and Doc, because I think you may have some. It isn't property rights. So?ATL Bear said:Some would say principles, which don't matter to you anymore, only the fear of COVID.Sam Lowry said:More generalities. What does this have to do with pandemics, or with Covid in particular?ATL Bear said:We're dealing in fear and panic. The government has an interest in control and power. They express it through several "public" interests. Citizens decide how far they allow it to encroach on their freedom. One thing is clear throughout history though, fear will make citizens enable incredible encroachment.Sam Lowry said:This is very scattershot. It's your analogy. Can we agree the government has an interest in public health, or are we still dealing in libertarian fantasy? You tell me and we'll argue the details.ATL Bear said:Human breathing as a parallel to toxic waste. Good grief. Even smoking isn't as restricted as what you seem to be advocating. This goes no where because you're being obstinate and cowardly. Protect yourself Sam. You have a litany of options. Let others live with their individual choices. That's what free people and societies do.Sam Lowry said:You brought it up, but it doesn't go anywhere surprising. Government has a legitimate interest in safeguarding air quality and human life. No one has unlimited freedom to spew toxic waste.ATL Bear said:I know where this is going. All I can say is, wow Sam. Everyone is a public danger, so let's control everyone, instead of free people using their judgement to make their own choices. Protect me from myself Mother government.Sam Lowry said:That fine as long as you can hold your breath. Otherwise the air is a public good.ATL Bear said:From the point it enters and exits my body I would assume so.Sam Lowry said:Do you?ATL Bear said:Does government own the air we breathe?Sam Lowry said:Pregnancy isn't airborne. I'm sure you can imagine the demand for precautions if it were.ATL Bear said:Agree, and? This is about lowering the opportunity for death/harm caused by the actions of another, right? Isn't that your "prolife" argument for masks? Wearing a mask isn't healthcare any more than wearing a condom is.Sam Lowry said:ATL Bear said:I wouldn't support government mandated condom wearing to prevent abortion.Sam Lowry said:It is shocking how indifferent you "pro-lifers" have become. It's as if you have no faith at all.Mothra said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Mask up Sam. Board up your windows with plywood and make sure your Papa John's delivery guy has on a Haz-Mat suit when he delivers your pizza. If the Haz-Mat suit is white, you should reject the pizza delivery and make sure he or someone else comes back in a black Haz-Mat suit. I really hope your pizza does not get cold!Sam Lowry said:Evidently not.Rawhide said:Your average American is sick and tired of masks, mandates and lockdownsDoc Holliday said:
Lockdown coming back?BREAKING: The Biden administration indicates they are open to returning to lockdowns. pic.twitter.com/lcj66Fggkz
— (((Jason Rantz))) on KTTH Radio (@jasonrantz) July 29, 2021
It is shocking what a coward this guy's turned into. I didn't always agree with him, but could always count on him to give a thoughtful and reasoned conservative position.
On this issue, you couldn't distinguish him from the big govt. lefties who haven't seen a mask mandate or lockdown they didn't like. It's as if he has no faith at all.
The old saying remains true - people will trade freedom for security. That seems to be the case with poor Sam.
I'm not arguing against mask usage, just the governmental mandating of it. Hence the parallel.
You are the one avoiding and dodging the admission that fear of COVID is the ONLY driver for your willingness for excessive encroachment of personal rights. Heed your own advice and give me the specific principles of public health where you're drawing your red lines?
I don't fear robbery enough to encroach on, for example, everyone's 4th amendment rights because they could possibly be a robber.Sam Lowry said:So any encroachment based on fear is excessive? You fear being robbed, you outlaw robbery, therefore the law is bad?ATL Bear said:You don't like it more than fear. That's what you fail to understand.Sam Lowry said:Obviously, but on what principle? You know how pro-choicers only ever say "because freedom?" Do you find it persuasive? No, because we all like freedom. So do I, believe it or not.ATL Bear said:Then we disagree.Sam Lowry said:Like I said, I don't find the encroachments excessive because they're not unconstitutional. How do you define excessive?ATL Bear said:Public health is an amorphous term that crosses personal welfare, private enterprise, public policy, and a whole litany of subset roles, participants, and concepts. I specifically gave you liberty and privacy which tie back to specific amendments and case law. I've advised you I am against government mandates in two areas, and yet you can't even articulate the area of public health to be addressed and argued.Sam Lowry said:Don't dodge. It's a simple question.ATL Bear said:You're going to need to be more specific than "Public Health".Sam Lowry said:So you've got privacy and liberty on one side, public health on the other. What principle tells you where to draw the line between them?ATL Bear said:It's been asked and answered multiple times. And I've never said businesses couldn't decide to require masks. The vaccine requirement gets a little dicey, but I understand the argument for it. Principles of privacy and liberty come into play though when you get the government involved.Sam Lowry said:What is the principle? That's precisely what I'm asking you and Doc, because I think you may have some. It isn't property rights. So?ATL Bear said:Some would say principles, which don't matter to you anymore, only the fear of COVID.Sam Lowry said:More generalities. What does this have to do with pandemics, or with Covid in particular?ATL Bear said:We're dealing in fear and panic. The government has an interest in control and power. They express it through several "public" interests. Citizens decide how far they allow it to encroach on their freedom. One thing is clear throughout history though, fear will make citizens enable incredible encroachment.Sam Lowry said:This is very scattershot. It's your analogy. Can we agree the government has an interest in public health, or are we still dealing in libertarian fantasy? You tell me and we'll argue the details.ATL Bear said:Human breathing as a parallel to toxic waste. Good grief. Even smoking isn't as restricted as what you seem to be advocating. This goes no where because you're being obstinate and cowardly. Protect yourself Sam. You have a litany of options. Let others live with their individual choices. That's what free people and societies do.Sam Lowry said:You brought it up, but it doesn't go anywhere surprising. Government has a legitimate interest in safeguarding air quality and human life. No one has unlimited freedom to spew toxic waste.ATL Bear said:I know where this is going. All I can say is, wow Sam. Everyone is a public danger, so let's control everyone, instead of free people using their judgement to make their own choices. Protect me from myself Mother government.Sam Lowry said:That fine as long as you can hold your breath. Otherwise the air is a public good.ATL Bear said:From the point it enters and exits my body I would assume so.Sam Lowry said:Do you?ATL Bear said:Does government own the air we breathe?Sam Lowry said:Pregnancy isn't airborne. I'm sure you can imagine the demand for precautions if it were.ATL Bear said:Agree, and? This is about lowering the opportunity for death/harm caused by the actions of another, right? Isn't that your "prolife" argument for masks? Wearing a mask isn't healthcare any more than wearing a condom is.Sam Lowry said:ATL Bear said:I wouldn't support government mandated condom wearing to prevent abortion.Sam Lowry said:It is shocking how indifferent you "pro-lifers" have become. It's as if you have no faith at all.Mothra said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Mask up Sam. Board up your windows with plywood and make sure your Papa John's delivery guy has on a Haz-Mat suit when he delivers your pizza. If the Haz-Mat suit is white, you should reject the pizza delivery and make sure he or someone else comes back in a black Haz-Mat suit. I really hope your pizza does not get cold!Sam Lowry said:Evidently not.Rawhide said:Your average American is sick and tired of masks, mandates and lockdownsDoc Holliday said:
Lockdown coming back?BREAKING: The Biden administration indicates they are open to returning to lockdowns. pic.twitter.com/lcj66Fggkz
— (((Jason Rantz))) on KTTH Radio (@jasonrantz) July 29, 2021
It is shocking what a coward this guy's turned into. I didn't always agree with him, but could always count on him to give a thoughtful and reasoned conservative position.
On this issue, you couldn't distinguish him from the big govt. lefties who haven't seen a mask mandate or lockdown they didn't like. It's as if he has no faith at all.
The old saying remains true - people will trade freedom for security. That seems to be the case with poor Sam.
I'm not arguing against mask usage, just the governmental mandating of it. Hence the parallel.
You are the one avoiding and dodging the admission that fear of COVID is the ONLY driver for your willingness for excessive encroachment of personal rights. Heed your own advice and give me the specific principles of public health where you're drawing your red lines?
Your gauge of excessive is in direct correlation to your fear of COVID. You are defaulting to security over liberty as many are. I still have faith in the self interest of free people and private enterprise. It doesnt always come together in harmony, but freedom is sloppy and people sometimes have negative consequences for their decisions. We're losing that ideal.
I'm vaccinated, I wear a mask in businesses and places that require/ask, I still wash my hands, take vitamin D supplements, etc. I would tell anyone over 40 you're crazy not to get vaccinated. I'd say the same thing to someone who thinks a heathy non immuno-compromised person 18 or under should get vaccinated. But that doesn't mean I think the government should ban vaccinations for those under 18, anymore than I think they should mandate it for those over 40, or require businesses to have mask mandates, or vaccine mandates, limits on commerce, etc.
Now that we have clear choices to protect ourselves, it even makes less sense. The government's role is in advising and garnering resources for people and private enterprises. It's up to the people to determine whether to consent and follow or face the consequences.
Sam Lowry said:This is very scattershot. It's your analogy. Can we agree the government has an interest in public health, or are we still dealing in libertarian fantasy? You tell me and we'll argue the details.ATL Bear said:Human breathing as a parallel to toxic waste. Good grief. Even smoking isn't as restricted as what you seem to be advocating. This goes no where because you're being obstinate and cowardly. Protect yourself Sam. You have a litany of options. Let others live with their individual choices. That's what free people and societies do.Sam Lowry said:You brought it up, but it doesn't go anywhere surprising. Government has a legitimate interest in safeguarding air quality and human life. No one has unlimited freedom to spew toxic waste.ATL Bear said:I know where this is going. All I can say is, wow Sam. Everyone is a public danger, so let's control everyone, instead of free people using their judgement to make their own choices. Protect me from myself Mother government.Sam Lowry said:That fine as long as you can hold your breath. Otherwise the air is a public good.ATL Bear said:From the point it enters and exits my body I would assume so.Sam Lowry said:Do you?ATL Bear said:Does government own the air we breathe?Sam Lowry said:Pregnancy isn't airborne. I'm sure you can imagine the demand for precautions if it were.ATL Bear said:Agree, and? This is about lowering the opportunity for death/harm caused by the actions of another, right? Isn't that your "prolife" argument for masks? Wearing a mask isn't healthcare any more than wearing a condom is.Sam Lowry said:ATL Bear said:I wouldn't support government mandated condom wearing to prevent abortion.Sam Lowry said:It is shocking how indifferent you "pro-lifers" have become. It's as if you have no faith at all.Mothra said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Mask up Sam. Board up your windows with plywood and make sure your Papa John's delivery guy has on a Haz-Mat suit when he delivers your pizza. If the Haz-Mat suit is white, you should reject the pizza delivery and make sure he or someone else comes back in a black Haz-Mat suit. I really hope your pizza does not get cold!Sam Lowry said:Evidently not.Rawhide said:Your average American is sick and tired of masks, mandates and lockdownsDoc Holliday said:
Lockdown coming back?BREAKING: The Biden administration indicates they are open to returning to lockdowns. pic.twitter.com/lcj66Fggkz
— (((Jason Rantz))) on KTTH Radio (@jasonrantz) July 29, 2021
It is shocking what a coward this guy's turned into. I didn't always agree with him, but could always count on him to give a thoughtful and reasoned conservative position.
On this issue, you couldn't distinguish him from the big govt. lefties who haven't seen a mask mandate or lockdown they didn't like. It's as if he has no faith at all.
The old saying remains true - people will trade freedom for security. That seems to be the case with poor Sam.
I'm not arguing against mask usage, just the governmental mandating of it. Hence the parallel.
Sigh. I do my dead level best not to mischaracterize Catholic practice, usually with a quick Google search. Please don't arbitrarily throw Libertarians under your bus
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
quash said:Sam Lowry said:This is very scattershot. It's your analogy. Can we agree the government has an interest in public health, or are we still dealing in libertarian fantasy? You tell me and we'll argue the details.ATL Bear said:Human breathing as a parallel to toxic waste. Good grief. Even smoking isn't as restricted as what you seem to be advocating. This goes no where because you're being obstinate and cowardly. Protect yourself Sam. You have a litany of options. Let others live with their individual choices. That's what free people and societies do.Sam Lowry said:You brought it up, but it doesn't go anywhere surprising. Government has a legitimate interest in safeguarding air quality and human life. No one has unlimited freedom to spew toxic waste.ATL Bear said:I know where this is going. All I can say is, wow Sam. Everyone is a public danger, so let's control everyone, instead of free people using their judgement to make their own choices. Protect me from myself Mother government.Sam Lowry said:That fine as long as you can hold your breath. Otherwise the air is a public good.ATL Bear said:From the point it enters and exits my body I would assume so.Sam Lowry said:Do you?ATL Bear said:Does government own the air we breathe?Sam Lowry said:Pregnancy isn't airborne. I'm sure you can imagine the demand for precautions if it were.ATL Bear said:Agree, and? This is about lowering the opportunity for death/harm caused by the actions of another, right? Isn't that your "prolife" argument for masks? Wearing a mask isn't healthcare any more than wearing a condom is.Sam Lowry said:ATL Bear said:I wouldn't support government mandated condom wearing to prevent abortion.Sam Lowry said:It is shocking how indifferent you "pro-lifers" have become. It's as if you have no faith at all.Mothra said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Mask up Sam. Board up your windows with plywood and make sure your Papa John's delivery guy has on a Haz-Mat suit when he delivers your pizza. If the Haz-Mat suit is white, you should reject the pizza delivery and make sure he or someone else comes back in a black Haz-Mat suit. I really hope your pizza does not get cold!Sam Lowry said:Evidently not.Rawhide said:Your average American is sick and tired of masks, mandates and lockdownsDoc Holliday said:
Lockdown coming back?BREAKING: The Biden administration indicates they are open to returning to lockdowns. pic.twitter.com/lcj66Fggkz
— (((Jason Rantz))) on KTTH Radio (@jasonrantz) July 29, 2021
It is shocking what a coward this guy's turned into. I didn't always agree with him, but could always count on him to give a thoughtful and reasoned conservative position.
On this issue, you couldn't distinguish him from the big govt. lefties who haven't seen a mask mandate or lockdown they didn't like. It's as if he has no faith at all.
The old saying remains true - people will trade freedom for security. That seems to be the case with poor Sam.
I'm not arguing against mask usage, just the governmental mandating of it. Hence the parallel.
Sigh. I do my dead level best not to mischaracterize Catholic practice, usually with a quick Google search. Please don't arbitrarily throw Libertarians under your bus
Pretty positive you made close to this exact copy/paste(?) awhile back on Catholic practice?
Looks verbatim just saying
But you're okay with violating a robber's 4th Amendment rights?ATL Bear said:I don't fear robbery enough to encroach on, for example, everyone's 4th amendment rights because they could possibly be a robber.Sam Lowry said:So any encroachment based on fear is excessive? You fear being robbed, you outlaw robbery, therefore the law is bad?ATL Bear said:You don't like it more than fear. That's what you fail to understand.Sam Lowry said:Obviously, but on what principle? You know how pro-choicers only ever say "because freedom?" Do you find it persuasive? No, because we all like freedom. So do I, believe it or not.ATL Bear said:Then we disagree.Sam Lowry said:Like I said, I don't find the encroachments excessive because they're not unconstitutional. How do you define excessive?ATL Bear said:Public health is an amorphous term that crosses personal welfare, private enterprise, public policy, and a whole litany of subset roles, participants, and concepts. I specifically gave you liberty and privacy which tie back to specific amendments and case law. I've advised you I am against government mandates in two areas, and yet you can't even articulate the area of public health to be addressed and argued.Sam Lowry said:Don't dodge. It's a simple question.ATL Bear said:You're going to need to be more specific than "Public Health".Sam Lowry said:So you've got privacy and liberty on one side, public health on the other. What principle tells you where to draw the line between them?ATL Bear said:It's been asked and answered multiple times. And I've never said businesses couldn't decide to require masks. The vaccine requirement gets a little dicey, but I understand the argument for it. Principles of privacy and liberty come into play though when you get the government involved.Sam Lowry said:What is the principle? That's precisely what I'm asking you and Doc, because I think you may have some. It isn't property rights. So?ATL Bear said:Some would say principles, which don't matter to you anymore, only the fear of COVID.Sam Lowry said:More generalities. What does this have to do with pandemics, or with Covid in particular?ATL Bear said:We're dealing in fear and panic. The government has an interest in control and power. They express it through several "public" interests. Citizens decide how far they allow it to encroach on their freedom. One thing is clear throughout history though, fear will make citizens enable incredible encroachment.Sam Lowry said:This is very scattershot. It's your analogy. Can we agree the government has an interest in public health, or are we still dealing in libertarian fantasy? You tell me and we'll argue the details.ATL Bear said:Human breathing as a parallel to toxic waste. Good grief. Even smoking isn't as restricted as what you seem to be advocating. This goes no where because you're being obstinate and cowardly. Protect yourself Sam. You have a litany of options. Let others live with their individual choices. That's what free people and societies do.Sam Lowry said:You brought it up, but it doesn't go anywhere surprising. Government has a legitimate interest in safeguarding air quality and human life. No one has unlimited freedom to spew toxic waste.ATL Bear said:I know where this is going. All I can say is, wow Sam. Everyone is a public danger, so let's control everyone, instead of free people using their judgement to make their own choices. Protect me from myself Mother government.Sam Lowry said:That fine as long as you can hold your breath. Otherwise the air is a public good.ATL Bear said:From the point it enters and exits my body I would assume so.Sam Lowry said:Do you?ATL Bear said:Does government own the air we breathe?Sam Lowry said:Pregnancy isn't airborne. I'm sure you can imagine the demand for precautions if it were.ATL Bear said:Agree, and? This is about lowering the opportunity for death/harm caused by the actions of another, right? Isn't that your "prolife" argument for masks? Wearing a mask isn't healthcare any more than wearing a condom is.Sam Lowry said:ATL Bear said:I wouldn't support government mandated condom wearing to prevent abortion.Sam Lowry said:It is shocking how indifferent you "pro-lifers" have become. It's as if you have no faith at all.Mothra said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Mask up Sam. Board up your windows with plywood and make sure your Papa John's delivery guy has on a Haz-Mat suit when he delivers your pizza. If the Haz-Mat suit is white, you should reject the pizza delivery and make sure he or someone else comes back in a black Haz-Mat suit. I really hope your pizza does not get cold!Sam Lowry said:Evidently not.Rawhide said:Your average American is sick and tired of masks, mandates and lockdownsDoc Holliday said:
Lockdown coming back?BREAKING: The Biden administration indicates they are open to returning to lockdowns. pic.twitter.com/lcj66Fggkz
— (((Jason Rantz))) on KTTH Radio (@jasonrantz) July 29, 2021
It is shocking what a coward this guy's turned into. I didn't always agree with him, but could always count on him to give a thoughtful and reasoned conservative position.
On this issue, you couldn't distinguish him from the big govt. lefties who haven't seen a mask mandate or lockdown they didn't like. It's as if he has no faith at all.
The old saying remains true - people will trade freedom for security. That seems to be the case with poor Sam.
I'm not arguing against mask usage, just the governmental mandating of it. Hence the parallel.
You are the one avoiding and dodging the admission that fear of COVID is the ONLY driver for your willingness for excessive encroachment of personal rights. Heed your own advice and give me the specific principles of public health where you're drawing your red lines?
I apologize. I was using "libertarian" to refer to this extreme individualist view that I often see expressed here.quash said:Sam Lowry said:This is very scattershot. It's your analogy. Can we agree the government has an interest in public health, or are we still dealing in libertarian fantasy? You tell me and we'll argue the details.ATL Bear said:Human breathing as a parallel to toxic waste. Good grief. Even smoking isn't as restricted as what you seem to be advocating. This goes no where because you're being obstinate and cowardly. Protect yourself Sam. You have a litany of options. Let others live with their individual choices. That's what free people and societies do.Sam Lowry said:You brought it up, but it doesn't go anywhere surprising. Government has a legitimate interest in safeguarding air quality and human life. No one has unlimited freedom to spew toxic waste.ATL Bear said:I know where this is going. All I can say is, wow Sam. Everyone is a public danger, so let's control everyone, instead of free people using their judgement to make their own choices. Protect me from myself Mother government.Sam Lowry said:That fine as long as you can hold your breath. Otherwise the air is a public good.ATL Bear said:From the point it enters and exits my body I would assume so.Sam Lowry said:Do you?ATL Bear said:Does government own the air we breathe?Sam Lowry said:Pregnancy isn't airborne. I'm sure you can imagine the demand for precautions if it were.ATL Bear said:Agree, and? This is about lowering the opportunity for death/harm caused by the actions of another, right? Isn't that your "prolife" argument for masks? Wearing a mask isn't healthcare any more than wearing a condom is.Sam Lowry said:ATL Bear said:I wouldn't support government mandated condom wearing to prevent abortion.Sam Lowry said:It is shocking how indifferent you "pro-lifers" have become. It's as if you have no faith at all.Mothra said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Mask up Sam. Board up your windows with plywood and make sure your Papa John's delivery guy has on a Haz-Mat suit when he delivers your pizza. If the Haz-Mat suit is white, you should reject the pizza delivery and make sure he or someone else comes back in a black Haz-Mat suit. I really hope your pizza does not get cold!Sam Lowry said:Evidently not.Rawhide said:Your average American is sick and tired of masks, mandates and lockdownsDoc Holliday said:
Lockdown coming back?BREAKING: The Biden administration indicates they are open to returning to lockdowns. pic.twitter.com/lcj66Fggkz
— (((Jason Rantz))) on KTTH Radio (@jasonrantz) July 29, 2021
It is shocking what a coward this guy's turned into. I didn't always agree with him, but could always count on him to give a thoughtful and reasoned conservative position.
On this issue, you couldn't distinguish him from the big govt. lefties who haven't seen a mask mandate or lockdown they didn't like. It's as if he has no faith at all.
The old saying remains true - people will trade freedom for security. That seems to be the case with poor Sam.
I'm not arguing against mask usage, just the governmental mandating of it. Hence the parallel.
Sigh. I do my dead level best not to mischaracterize Catholic practice, usually with a quick Google search. Please don't arbitrarily throw Libertarians under your bus
Of course not. That's why I said everyone's.Sam Lowry said:But you're okay with violating a robber's 4th Amendment rights?ATL Bear said:I don't fear robbery enough to encroach on, for example, everyone's 4th amendment rights because they could possibly be a robber.Sam Lowry said:So any encroachment based on fear is excessive? You fear being robbed, you outlaw robbery, therefore the law is bad?ATL Bear said:You don't like it more than fear. That's what you fail to understand.Sam Lowry said:Obviously, but on what principle? You know how pro-choicers only ever say "because freedom?" Do you find it persuasive? No, because we all like freedom. So do I, believe it or not.ATL Bear said:Then we disagree.Sam Lowry said:Like I said, I don't find the encroachments excessive because they're not unconstitutional. How do you define excessive?ATL Bear said:Public health is an amorphous term that crosses personal welfare, private enterprise, public policy, and a whole litany of subset roles, participants, and concepts. I specifically gave you liberty and privacy which tie back to specific amendments and case law. I've advised you I am against government mandates in two areas, and yet you can't even articulate the area of public health to be addressed and argued.Sam Lowry said:Don't dodge. It's a simple question.ATL Bear said:You're going to need to be more specific than "Public Health".Sam Lowry said:So you've got privacy and liberty on one side, public health on the other. What principle tells you where to draw the line between them?ATL Bear said:It's been asked and answered multiple times. And I've never said businesses couldn't decide to require masks. The vaccine requirement gets a little dicey, but I understand the argument for it. Principles of privacy and liberty come into play though when you get the government involved.Sam Lowry said:What is the principle? That's precisely what I'm asking you and Doc, because I think you may have some. It isn't property rights. So?ATL Bear said:Some would say principles, which don't matter to you anymore, only the fear of COVID.Sam Lowry said:More generalities. What does this have to do with pandemics, or with Covid in particular?ATL Bear said:We're dealing in fear and panic. The government has an interest in control and power. They express it through several "public" interests. Citizens decide how far they allow it to encroach on their freedom. One thing is clear throughout history though, fear will make citizens enable incredible encroachment.Sam Lowry said:This is very scattershot. It's your analogy. Can we agree the government has an interest in public health, or are we still dealing in libertarian fantasy? You tell me and we'll argue the details.ATL Bear said:Human breathing as a parallel to toxic waste. Good grief. Even smoking isn't as restricted as what you seem to be advocating. This goes no where because you're being obstinate and cowardly. Protect yourself Sam. You have a litany of options. Let others live with their individual choices. That's what free people and societies do.Sam Lowry said:You brought it up, but it doesn't go anywhere surprising. Government has a legitimate interest in safeguarding air quality and human life. No one has unlimited freedom to spew toxic waste.ATL Bear said:I know where this is going. All I can say is, wow Sam. Everyone is a public danger, so let's control everyone, instead of free people using their judgement to make their own choices. Protect me from myself Mother government.Sam Lowry said:That fine as long as you can hold your breath. Otherwise the air is a public good.ATL Bear said:From the point it enters and exits my body I would assume so.Sam Lowry said:Do you?ATL Bear said:Does government own the air we breathe?Sam Lowry said:Pregnancy isn't airborne. I'm sure you can imagine the demand for precautions if it were.ATL Bear said:Agree, and? This is about lowering the opportunity for death/harm caused by the actions of another, right? Isn't that your "prolife" argument for masks? Wearing a mask isn't healthcare any more than wearing a condom is.Sam Lowry said:ATL Bear said:I wouldn't support government mandated condom wearing to prevent abortion.Sam Lowry said:It is shocking how indifferent you "pro-lifers" have become. It's as if you have no faith at all.Mothra said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Mask up Sam. Board up your windows with plywood and make sure your Papa John's delivery guy has on a Haz-Mat suit when he delivers your pizza. If the Haz-Mat suit is white, you should reject the pizza delivery and make sure he or someone else comes back in a black Haz-Mat suit. I really hope your pizza does not get cold!Sam Lowry said:Evidently not.Rawhide said:Your average American is sick and tired of masks, mandates and lockdownsDoc Holliday said:
Lockdown coming back?BREAKING: The Biden administration indicates they are open to returning to lockdowns. pic.twitter.com/lcj66Fggkz
— (((Jason Rantz))) on KTTH Radio (@jasonrantz) July 29, 2021
It is shocking what a coward this guy's turned into. I didn't always agree with him, but could always count on him to give a thoughtful and reasoned conservative position.
On this issue, you couldn't distinguish him from the big govt. lefties who haven't seen a mask mandate or lockdown they didn't like. It's as if he has no faith at all.
The old saying remains true - people will trade freedom for security. That seems to be the case with poor Sam.
I'm not arguing against mask usage, just the governmental mandating of it. Hence the parallel.
You are the one avoiding and dodging the admission that fear of COVID is the ONLY driver for your willingness for excessive encroachment of personal rights. Heed your own advice and give me the specific principles of public health where you're drawing your red lines?
So how does that apply to mask wearing? It's okay to violate sick people's rights, but not healthy people's?ATL Bear said:Of course not. That's why I said everyone's.Sam Lowry said:But you're okay with violating a robber's 4th Amendment rights?ATL Bear said:I don't fear robbery enough to encroach on, for example, everyone's 4th amendment rights because they could possibly be a robber.Sam Lowry said:So any encroachment based on fear is excessive? You fear being robbed, you outlaw robbery, therefore the law is bad?ATL Bear said:You don't like it more than fear. That's what you fail to understand.Sam Lowry said:Obviously, but on what principle? You know how pro-choicers only ever say "because freedom?" Do you find it persuasive? No, because we all like freedom. So do I, believe it or not.ATL Bear said:Then we disagree.Sam Lowry said:Like I said, I don't find the encroachments excessive because they're not unconstitutional. How do you define excessive?ATL Bear said:Public health is an amorphous term that crosses personal welfare, private enterprise, public policy, and a whole litany of subset roles, participants, and concepts. I specifically gave you liberty and privacy which tie back to specific amendments and case law. I've advised you I am against government mandates in two areas, and yet you can't even articulate the area of public health to be addressed and argued.Sam Lowry said:Don't dodge. It's a simple question.ATL Bear said:You're going to need to be more specific than "Public Health".Sam Lowry said:So you've got privacy and liberty on one side, public health on the other. What principle tells you where to draw the line between them?ATL Bear said:It's been asked and answered multiple times. And I've never said businesses couldn't decide to require masks. The vaccine requirement gets a little dicey, but I understand the argument for it. Principles of privacy and liberty come into play though when you get the government involved.Sam Lowry said:What is the principle? That's precisely what I'm asking you and Doc, because I think you may have some. It isn't property rights. So?ATL Bear said:Some would say principles, which don't matter to you anymore, only the fear of COVID.Sam Lowry said:More generalities. What does this have to do with pandemics, or with Covid in particular?ATL Bear said:We're dealing in fear and panic. The government has an interest in control and power. They express it through several "public" interests. Citizens decide how far they allow it to encroach on their freedom. One thing is clear throughout history though, fear will make citizens enable incredible encroachment.Sam Lowry said:This is very scattershot. It's your analogy. Can we agree the government has an interest in public health, or are we still dealing in libertarian fantasy? You tell me and we'll argue the details.ATL Bear said:Human breathing as a parallel to toxic waste. Good grief. Even smoking isn't as restricted as what you seem to be advocating. This goes no where because you're being obstinate and cowardly. Protect yourself Sam. You have a litany of options. Let others live with their individual choices. That's what free people and societies do.Sam Lowry said:You brought it up, but it doesn't go anywhere surprising. Government has a legitimate interest in safeguarding air quality and human life. No one has unlimited freedom to spew toxic waste.ATL Bear said:I know where this is going. All I can say is, wow Sam. Everyone is a public danger, so let's control everyone, instead of free people using their judgement to make their own choices. Protect me from myself Mother government.Sam Lowry said:That fine as long as you can hold your breath. Otherwise the air is a public good.ATL Bear said:From the point it enters and exits my body I would assume so.Sam Lowry said:Do you?ATL Bear said:Does government own the air we breathe?Sam Lowry said:Pregnancy isn't airborne. I'm sure you can imagine the demand for precautions if it were.ATL Bear said:Agree, and? This is about lowering the opportunity for death/harm caused by the actions of another, right? Isn't that your "prolife" argument for masks? Wearing a mask isn't healthcare any more than wearing a condom is.Sam Lowry said:ATL Bear said:I wouldn't support government mandated condom wearing to prevent abortion.Sam Lowry said:It is shocking how indifferent you "pro-lifers" have become. It's as if you have no faith at all.Mothra said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Mask up Sam. Board up your windows with plywood and make sure your Papa John's delivery guy has on a Haz-Mat suit when he delivers your pizza. If the Haz-Mat suit is white, you should reject the pizza delivery and make sure he or someone else comes back in a black Haz-Mat suit. I really hope your pizza does not get cold!Sam Lowry said:Evidently not.Rawhide said:Your average American is sick and tired of masks, mandates and lockdownsDoc Holliday said:
Lockdown coming back?BREAKING: The Biden administration indicates they are open to returning to lockdowns. pic.twitter.com/lcj66Fggkz
— (((Jason Rantz))) on KTTH Radio (@jasonrantz) July 29, 2021
It is shocking what a coward this guy's turned into. I didn't always agree with him, but could always count on him to give a thoughtful and reasoned conservative position.
On this issue, you couldn't distinguish him from the big govt. lefties who haven't seen a mask mandate or lockdown they didn't like. It's as if he has no faith at all.
The old saying remains true - people will trade freedom for security. That seems to be the case with poor Sam.
I'm not arguing against mask usage, just the governmental mandating of it. Hence the parallel.
You are the one avoiding and dodging the admission that fear of COVID is the ONLY driver for your willingness for excessive encroachment of personal rights. Heed your own advice and give me the specific principles of public health where you're drawing your red lines?
What specific right are you referring to? The right not to get sick?Sam Lowry said:So how does that apply to mask wearing? It's okay to violate sick people's rights, but not healthy people's?ATL Bear said:Of course not. That's why I said everyone's.Sam Lowry said:But you're okay with violating a robber's 4th Amendment rights?ATL Bear said:I don't fear robbery enough to encroach on, for example, everyone's 4th amendment rights because they could possibly be a robber.Sam Lowry said:So any encroachment based on fear is excessive? You fear being robbed, you outlaw robbery, therefore the law is bad?ATL Bear said:You don't like it more than fear. That's what you fail to understand.Sam Lowry said:Obviously, but on what principle? You know how pro-choicers only ever say "because freedom?" Do you find it persuasive? No, because we all like freedom. So do I, believe it or not.ATL Bear said:Then we disagree.Sam Lowry said:Like I said, I don't find the encroachments excessive because they're not unconstitutional. How do you define excessive?ATL Bear said:Public health is an amorphous term that crosses personal welfare, private enterprise, public policy, and a whole litany of subset roles, participants, and concepts. I specifically gave you liberty and privacy which tie back to specific amendments and case law. I've advised you I am against government mandates in two areas, and yet you can't even articulate the area of public health to be addressed and argued.Sam Lowry said:Don't dodge. It's a simple question.ATL Bear said:You're going to need to be more specific than "Public Health".Sam Lowry said:So you've got privacy and liberty on one side, public health on the other. What principle tells you where to draw the line between them?ATL Bear said:It's been asked and answered multiple times. And I've never said businesses couldn't decide to require masks. The vaccine requirement gets a little dicey, but I understand the argument for it. Principles of privacy and liberty come into play though when you get the government involved.Sam Lowry said:What is the principle? That's precisely what I'm asking you and Doc, because I think you may have some. It isn't property rights. So?ATL Bear said:Some would say principles, which don't matter to you anymore, only the fear of COVID.Sam Lowry said:More generalities. What does this have to do with pandemics, or with Covid in particular?ATL Bear said:We're dealing in fear and panic. The government has an interest in control and power. They express it through several "public" interests. Citizens decide how far they allow it to encroach on their freedom. One thing is clear throughout history though, fear will make citizens enable incredible encroachment.Sam Lowry said:This is very scattershot. It's your analogy. Can we agree the government has an interest in public health, or are we still dealing in libertarian fantasy? You tell me and we'll argue the details.ATL Bear said:Human breathing as a parallel to toxic waste. Good grief. Even smoking isn't as restricted as what you seem to be advocating. This goes no where because you're being obstinate and cowardly. Protect yourself Sam. You have a litany of options. Let others live with their individual choices. That's what free people and societies do.Sam Lowry said:You brought it up, but it doesn't go anywhere surprising. Government has a legitimate interest in safeguarding air quality and human life. No one has unlimited freedom to spew toxic waste.ATL Bear said:I know where this is going. All I can say is, wow Sam. Everyone is a public danger, so let's control everyone, instead of free people using their judgement to make their own choices. Protect me from myself Mother government.Sam Lowry said:That fine as long as you can hold your breath. Otherwise the air is a public good.ATL Bear said:From the point it enters and exits my body I would assume so.Sam Lowry said:Do you?ATL Bear said:Does government own the air we breathe?Sam Lowry said:Pregnancy isn't airborne. I'm sure you can imagine the demand for precautions if it were.ATL Bear said:Agree, and? This is about lowering the opportunity for death/harm caused by the actions of another, right? Isn't that your "prolife" argument for masks? Wearing a mask isn't healthcare any more than wearing a condom is.Sam Lowry said:ATL Bear said:I wouldn't support government mandated condom wearing to prevent abortion.Sam Lowry said:It is shocking how indifferent you "pro-lifers" have become. It's as if you have no faith at all.Mothra said:RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:Mask up Sam. Board up your windows with plywood and make sure your Papa John's delivery guy has on a Haz-Mat suit when he delivers your pizza. If the Haz-Mat suit is white, you should reject the pizza delivery and make sure he or someone else comes back in a black Haz-Mat suit. I really hope your pizza does not get cold!Sam Lowry said:Evidently not.Rawhide said:Your average American is sick and tired of masks, mandates and lockdownsDoc Holliday said:
Lockdown coming back?BREAKING: The Biden administration indicates they are open to returning to lockdowns. pic.twitter.com/lcj66Fggkz
— (((Jason Rantz))) on KTTH Radio (@jasonrantz) July 29, 2021
It is shocking what a coward this guy's turned into. I didn't always agree with him, but could always count on him to give a thoughtful and reasoned conservative position.
On this issue, you couldn't distinguish him from the big govt. lefties who haven't seen a mask mandate or lockdown they didn't like. It's as if he has no faith at all.
The old saying remains true - people will trade freedom for security. That seems to be the case with poor Sam.
I'm not arguing against mask usage, just the governmental mandating of it. Hence the parallel.
You are the one avoiding and dodging the admission that fear of COVID is the ONLY driver for your willingness for excessive encroachment of personal rights. Heed your own advice and give me the specific principles of public health where you're drawing your red lines?
Full interview:
Dr. Fauci on pushback against mask requirements, individual rights: "The fact is, if you get infected, even if you are without symptoms, you very well may infect another person who may be vulnerable,.. So in essence, you are encroaching on their individual rights." pic.twitter.com/R7aSX0JUPh
— This Week (@ThisWeekABC) August 1, 2021
Jacques Strap said:
Full interview:Dr. Fauci on pushback against mask requirements, individual rights: "The fact is, if you get infected, even if you are without symptoms, you very well may infect another person who may be vulnerable,.. So in essence, you are encroaching on their individual rights." pic.twitter.com/R7aSX0JUPh
— This Week (@ThisWeekABC) August 1, 2021
He needs to stick to his own area of expertise.
D. C. Bear said:Jacques Strap said:
Full interview:Dr. Fauci on pushback against mask requirements, individual rights: "The fact is, if you get infected, even if you are without symptoms, you very well may infect another person who may be vulnerable,.. So in essence, you are encroaching on their individual rights." pic.twitter.com/R7aSX0JUPh
— This Week (@ThisWeekABC) August 1, 2021
He needs to stick to his own area of expertise.
He is like the weather. Just wait a while and he will change.
— Alaska_Joe (@AlaskaJoe11) July 30, 2021
What is Fauci's area of expertise? Bureaucracy?D. C. Bear said:Jacques Strap said:
Full interview:Dr. Fauci on pushback against mask requirements, individual rights: "The fact is, if you get infected, even if you are without symptoms, you very well may infect another person who may be vulnerable,.. So in essence, you are encroaching on their individual rights." pic.twitter.com/R7aSX0JUPh
— This Week (@ThisWeekABC) August 1, 2021
He needs to stick to his own area of expertise.
Carlos Cruz said:What is Fauci's area of expertise? Bureaucracy?D. C. Bear said:Jacques Strap said:
Full interview:Dr. Fauci on pushback against mask requirements, individual rights: "The fact is, if you get infected, even if you are without symptoms, you very well may infect another person who may be vulnerable,.. So in essence, you are encroaching on their individual rights." pic.twitter.com/R7aSX0JUPh
— This Week (@ThisWeekABC) August 1, 2021
He needs to stick to his own area of expertise.
Infectious disease, too.
Not law, not social psychology, not political science.
Fauci needs to be in prison already for his role in this pandemic.
I have not really noticed that.D. C. Bear said:Carlos Cruz said:What is Fauci's area of expertise? Bureaucracy?D. C. Bear said:Jacques Strap said:
Full interview:Dr. Fauci on pushback against mask requirements, individual rights: "The fact is, if you get infected, even if you are without symptoms, you very well may infect another person who may be vulnerable,.. So in essence, you are encroaching on their individual rights." pic.twitter.com/R7aSX0JUPh
— This Week (@ThisWeekABC) August 1, 2021
He needs to stick to his own area of expertise.
Infectious disease, too.
Fauci's expertise is in self-fellationCarlos Cruz said:What is Fauci's area of expertise? Bureaucracy?D. C. Bear said:Jacques Strap said:
Full interview:Dr. Fauci on pushback against mask requirements, individual rights: "The fact is, if you get infected, even if you are without symptoms, you very well may infect another person who may be vulnerable,.. So in essence, you are encroaching on their individual rights." pic.twitter.com/R7aSX0JUPh
— This Week (@ThisWeekABC) August 1, 2021
He needs to stick to his own area of expertise.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Respect.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Jacques Strap said:
Full interview:Dr. Fauci on pushback against mask requirements, individual rights: "The fact is, if you get infected, even if you are without symptoms, you very well may infect another person who may be vulnerable,.. So in essence, you are encroaching on their individual rights." pic.twitter.com/R7aSX0JUPh
— This Week (@ThisWeekABC) August 1, 2021
If people can't tell by now that this guy is a snake in the grass, then they're beyond help imo
Shelf life of this tweet of a CNN segment is about 24 hours before the twitter scrub.
During a segment on CNN Monday afternoon, University of Minnesota Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy Director Michael Osterholm said cloth or paper masks don't work to stop the spread of the disease.
During a segment on CNN Monday afternoon, University of Minnesota Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy Director Michael Osterholm said cloth or paper masks don't work to stop the spread of the disease.
Holy sh*t
— Jewish Deplorable (@TrumpJew2) August 2, 2021
CNN finally admits that cloth masks don’t work, now says vaccinated and unvaccinated need to wear N-95s pic.twitter.com/pkBVj8jEPw